Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 65 of total 65 in this topic |
c wilmot
climber
|
|
Jan 23, 2017 - 10:47am PT
Did Obama did not realize this would happen as he used executive orders to put more land in control of the Feds with a republican controlled house And senate? Of course he did. Good cop Obama handed the keys over to bad cop trump.
The antiquities act simply needs to be amended and poof- all the land Obama "saved" while not even attempting to work with the house and senate to fund such acquisitions can be put up for sale.
The parties are working together alright. Predictably screwing over Americans
It would be an entertaining show if it wasn't so tragic
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
Obama working with the House? Like they'd ever work with him. They never worked with him. Also, this is about those designations since 1996, not just those made by Obama.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
Thanks Scott. I've been calling Secretary Zinke, too.
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
It appears Canyons of the Ancients in western Cowlowrado will be one
that's on the hit list, according to today's Denver Post. . .
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
I'm a pretty simple person, but even I can see beyond the words.....oil, timber and development. God help us. We only have this one earth. Once the birthright is squandered away it can't be recovered.
Perhaps someone can write a letter addressing the issues and we can email it to everyone we know and flood the White House with public comment. I really don't know enough about specific issues to write such a document. Or is there such a letter out there already?
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
|
|
I wonder how many "land grab" internet and a.m. radio ragers could even say how designation of their local monument makes a difference from how the land was previously managed?
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
I posted on the MP thread that the request for public comments is an empty gesture. This administration has shown that they do not care what the public thinks, especially of it's conservation. They really don't even care what the law is, Trump just does what he wants to do unless the courts or some other force intervenes.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
I don't presume to guess what the motive of the administration is, nor any use they may put the comments to.
Public comment periods are for public comments, if you wish to make one you should. These comment periods are opportunities for the various user communities to be heard. Climbers, as a group, tend not to take advantage of these opportunities. At least one of these monuments contains a major international climbing area... the comments of climbers would seem to be relevant to the review if only because many climbers have actually been in the monument and know it from first hand experience.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Did Obama did not realize this would happen as he used executive orders to put more land in control of the Feds with a republican controlled house And senate? Of course he did. Good cop Obama handed the keys over to bad cop trump.
The antiquities act simply needs to be amended and poof- all the land Obama "saved" while not even attempting to work with the house and senate to fund such acquisitions can be put up for sale.
Typical GOP alt-facts. As I've challenged before, name ONE ACRE that has been captured by federal control using the antiquities act!
This is simply a reclassification of what ALREADY EXISTING federal land can be used for, and it's level of protection.
And if it is so easy to reverse, how come it has not happened ONCE in the last century, since we've had the Antiquities Act?
But don't worry, Trump will save us from the actions of those radicals, the Bushs.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
I posted on the MP thread that the request for public comments is an empty gesture. This administration has shown that they do not care what the public thinks, especially of it's conservation. They really don't even care what the law is, Trump just does what he wants to do unless the courts or some other force intervenes.
This is not true. The GOP has taken many actions in the last 90 days, in reaction to public reaction. The first public insurance bill.....GOP opposition was largely due to constituent outrage at townhall meetings.
Trump may not give a sh*t, but Senators and Congressmen need to get re-elected, and are much more sensitive to public concerns.
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
Perhaps someone can write a letter addressing the issues and we can email it to everyone we know and flood the White House with public comment.
trump doesn't give a damn about people's comments. Not even those of his supporters.
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
Ken m- Katahdin Woods and Waters National Monument
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
Some of the reasons that the locals bitch, that the areas are mineral-rich, is a total snow job. It is a terrible area for coal or oil and gas production. I've never heard of any significant exploration, but you run into well casing on dry holes here and there.
There has been drilling in the areas around Canyonlands National Park for decades, with little success. Other than the fields close to 4 corners, the only successful drilling that I know of took place on the road to Deadhorse Point. That reservoir is very difficult to produce from. I think that there are only 2 wells. There were only 2 the last time I went through there. I know that the area around Moab has been seeing some recent 3D seismic acquisition, but never down around the Bears Ears area.
There are pretty much no significant fossil fuel reserves in either Escalante or Bears Ears. I've heard that there is some coal in Escalante, but it was too thin to be mined. They had over a hundred years to try to mine the area, but it isn't economic. Part of my job is dealing with coal beds. They are good stratigraphic markers. The vast majority of coal beds are less than 2 feet thick. Not enough to be profitable for very long. I work with the NE Oklahoma coals on a daily basis. There are over 25 coal horizons that outcrop in NE OK, and only a few of them were ever strip mined. These days, only the single thickest one, about 7-10 feet thick is still being mined. It is high sulfur, so it isn't worth much. Nothing can compete with the ultra thick Fort Union coals in Wyoming. It takes about ten feet of peat to make one foot of coal, so beds greater than 10 feet are rare. The Fort Union coals are dozens of feet thick. They are also low in Sulfur, and, despite having a lower BTU value than the Appalachian coals, they are much cleaner, so power plants use that Wyoming coal. Unfortunately, the Appalachian coals are also usually high in sulfur.
The only use that takes place is four wheeling, hunting, cattle ranching, and very little of that. It takes a ton of that country to run a single cow compared to the areas to the east where cattle are grown by the millions. It is a crappy place to ranch. Also, people cut firewood in areas where it has been permitted.
Well now. Let's see how the new monument will affect ANY of those activities (from their website):
**Will hunting, fishing, and outfitting
continue?**
Yes. Hunting, fishing and outfitting are popular and important activities for local communities and for recreation-oriented small businesses. The Forest Service and BLM will continue to apply the laws, regulations and policies currently used in issuing and administering permits on public lands in the national monument, consistent with the proper care and management of the national monument. The monument does not change the State of Utah’s jurisdiction as it relates to fish and wildlife management.
**Will grazing and timber management
continue?**
Yes. Currently, livestock grazing occurs throughout most of the monument area including nine active Forest Service allotments. Existing laws, regulations and policies followed by the Forest Service and BLM in issuing and administering grazing permits or leases shall continue to apply to ensure ongoing consistency with the monument. Likewise, timber management,
including for purposes of restoration and forest health, will continue
pursuant to existing laws, regulations and policies, consistent with the proper care and management of the national monument.
The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge also allows most uses. You can land a bush plane in the part that is designated Wilderness, you can run your snow machine anywhere you like, hunting is allowed (and popular for sheep).
These are not like parks. They just protect the resource, which in this case is all of the ruins. Grand Gulch is filled with ruins, and there are a lot in Dark Canyon as well. It really doesn't sound like much will change. Those sites have always been protected. Pot hunters go to jail these days.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
As to why Trump is doing this, it is because some western states resent the fact that huge portions of their states are owned by the federal government.
Nobody homesteaded the area, and now that homesteading is over, the land just sits there. You can get a grazing permit, you can drill or mine. You can use that land in almost anyway that you want.
It isn't that much of a hassle to get an oil and gas lease from the BLM. There are a few more hoops to go through, but not many. Nothing that we don't do anyway in the normal course of drilling.
There are plenty of people in the west who really resent the federal ownership of all of that desert and national forest. They aren't hikers or outdoorsmen. I don't know what would really change if it was in private hands. Grazing leases are probably less expensive than property taxes would be because it takes so much land to run a cow out there.
They are kind of in the same mindset that that Cliven Bundy character was. He acted like he owned all of that land that he was grazing his cattle on. The BLM must have been pretty darn cooperative to let him continue grazing without paying his grazing fees for so long.
The people in Blanding seem to have the same feelings.
I can see how it might be a good deal if the feds allowed some homesteading to take place again. I wish that it still was legal in Alaska.
Other than that, the land isn't arable, and isn't of much use.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
|
|
Fat Dad - I generally share your skepticism but this is not meaningless, but part of a legal process called 'notice and comment.' The agency *must* take public comments into account in its rule making for certain things. Those decision are reviewable in Federal Court where the Trump administration rarely wins. I like to write legal arguments and identify myself as a lawyer, but any show of support would help, like the photos you took of your family vacationing there, or something like that.
I don't know enough about this review to make an intelligent comment yet. No cows in Bears Ears! That part I understood. But in general I would prefer to have all these places under the control of the Forest Service and BLM, which do a much better job protecting them than the NPS. On the other hand, if the idea is to turn them over to the states, that would be bad news for sure.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
|
|
PS - that reminds me. Did you know that atomic fracking was invented in Rifle, CO? There is a thing sort of like a monument there, although its really a radiation warning sign.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
^ Just noticed in my youtube playlist, it's recommending The 1950s Atom Soldier, should be required high school curriculum.
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
|
|
National Monuments can be managed by the Forest Service or three other agencies- NPS, BLM or the F&WS.
Also, public comment is important to help support APA, NEPA and other bases of litigation. Which is obviously where this is headed!
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
10b4me, not trying along with assuming serves no purpose.
I appreciate your links Ed Hartouni. I can tackle these. Just hoping that someone who knew the issues for each area could compose a letter. It would be more effective.
We all must press on, take time and tackle these issues. Our land is more than important, not just for us but all the following generations.
From what I understand, Big Ears is the first to come under review. It needs our support immediately. If we are not, as a huge concerned group, working together we may not win the debate. Let's get it on!
Haven't seen anything on ST from the Sierra Club. They are most likely involved. I will check them out tonight.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Katahdin Woods and Waters National Monument
What HORSE SH*T!
A PRIVATE individual CONTRIBUTED *THEIR OWN PRIVATE PROPERTY* to the PEOPLE OF AMERICA on the condition that it be designated as a Monument- so that it would be preserved forever, and this was done.
This was NOT the gov't going out and TAKING anything, you liar.
So here we see what the conservative side is really about: not allowing a private landowner to do what they want with their land. You may think it is your land that you live on, but the GOP considers it THEIRS, if they can make a buck off it!
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
|
|
Ken M is correct. The Maine parcel is donated, and will revert to private ownership if its monument status is revoked. But who cares about facts?
|
|
the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
|
|
I'd prefer to see these lands remain under Federal control. I know some of the right wing extremists want these lands turned over to the states. In the Comb Ridge area of the Bears Ears, last Fall the state of Utah sold a 400 acre or so parcel off to a private individual who put up a locked gate, effectively complicating access to a major portion of the southern part of the monument,
I do know that in the 1950s there was extensive exploration for uranium in the Vermilion Cliffs (and other parts of the Plateau). I've no idea the grade of ore found, but with Trumps apparent urge to build up our nuclear arsenal perhaps this is a reason it could be on the chopping block? (It's hard for me to tell with Trump with so much of what he says being lies).
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
I've no idea the grade of ore found, but with Trumps apparent urge to build up our nuclear arsenal perhaps this is a reason it could be on the chopping block?
no need to dig more of it out of the ground, there is plenty enough already processed in the very unlikely case that the stockpile will be "rebuilt"
the only scenario for the future mining of uranium would be a resurgence of the nuclear power industry
|
|
the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
|
|
Thanks Ed. I suspect one of the reasons so many of these areas are "under consideration" is the hatred of the Fed government by many citizens of northern AZ and southern UT (predominately of the Mormon religion). Many of them seem to consider monument designation a "Federal land grab".
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
I spent a weekend in the San Rafael Swell a couple of weeks ago, and the ATVs were all flying "Don't Tread On Me" flags.
It's a beautiful place and basically wide open in terms of what you can do out there, I can understand why they might want to keep it as it is. I'd recommend being out there earlier in the spring, and on the weekdays to get a sense of the place without the roar of internal combustion engines, or the bang of rifles.
It would also be nice if the "bubba-glyphs" were on separate cliffs from the archeological sites.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
Hawking has revised his timetable for getting off Earth to 100 years.
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
Of course, Ed and Lynn are right. It is certainly worth writing. It will do no harm and may do some good.
Interestingly, I heard an interview on NPR the other day. They interviewed someone from the Navajo tribe, who said that the vast majority of the Native Americans support the designation (in contrast to the person who worked in tourist office in Blandings, who opposed it) and that they've been seeking protection for some time.
My quick glance of the statute is that it does not provide create any authority to revoke a prior designation. However, this administration has a dim view of the law. It may try, fail, and then blame the judiciary for doing its job.
|
|
JerryA
Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
|
|
Looks like the newest plot to double the membership of the Sierra Club since James G. Watt served as Sec.Interior in 1981-1983 .
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
For what it's worth, my first letter is almost done. I encourage others to not sit back and gripe but at least write a letter. If everyone that is not in favor of the current admin. wrote a letter it would make a difference. Complacency.....can we afford it in any important part of our lives?
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
The Freeman Grove stands in the Freeman Creek Drainage, between The Needles and Hermit Spire. This is the largest grove of Giant Sequoia trees outside of a National Park which has not been logged.
From the USFS website:
Freeman Creek Grove (4,192 acres), also known as Lloyd Meadow Grove, is the largest unlogged grove outside of a National Park. This grove is the easternmost grove of giant sequoias and is considered to be among the most recently established. The sequoias are mainly south of Freeman Creek with approximately 800 large trees (10 feet in diameter or more).
Commercial logging in the area came to a stop after President Clinton established the Giant Sequoia Nat. Monument, which was formerly a National Forest.
Giant Sequoia is on the list of Monuments under review.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
An interesting thing about National Monuments:
When the proclamation is issued by a President, the decision is made as to which Federal Department will manage the place. The eligible agencies are: National Park Service, U.S. Forest Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, or BLM.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
|
|
From the Department of the Interior News:
Agency suspends advisory panels even as decisions loom
The Bureau of Land Management has told members of its 30 resource advisory councils (RACs) to postpone scheduled meetings through at least September as part of the new national review of Interior's advisory panels, both internal and external. ...
The timing means some land management recommendations — including a high-profile review of national monuments — will be completed without the advisory panels' input. ..
President Trump in the last month has signed a number of executive orders, including one requiring the review of all policies that may "potentially burden" energy production activity on federal lands.
Trump last week also signed one requiring Interior to review the boundaries of dozens of national monuments designated within the last two decades and to decide whether they should be altered or eliminated (Greenwire, April 26).
That executive order is targeted at more than 30 national monuments designated since 1996 that comprise at least 100,000 acres. It will initially focus on the fate of the recently designated 1.35-million-acre Bears Ears National Monument but will ultimately include sites like the 1.9-million-acre Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, both in Utah.
That executive order requires Zinke to submit a report with his recommendations on the national monuments to the president within 120 days, before the Interior review of the advisory committees and boards is completed and the postponement of the meetings lifted.
That means the Utah resource advisory council that provides recommendations to BLM on management of the 22.9 million acres of federal public lands in the state will not weigh in on the national monument issue; neither, presumably, will the members of the agency's Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument advisory committee. ...
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Looks like the newest plot to double the membership of the Sierra Club since James G. Watt served as Sec.Interior in 1981-1983 .
If so, it's working. Membership in the Angeles Chapter is increasing.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
This will be jointly run by the BLM and the Forest Service. As I said before, grazing, wood cutting, ATV riding, will all still be allowed.
I know the subsurface geology of the area, and it isn't very attractive.
There are also no coal seams, from what I've read and seen.
Nothing will really change. Those rules have been in effect for much of the area for decades.
The eastern part is pretty close to Blanding. If it were confined to the area west of Comb Ridge, there would be less bitching.
A lot of people in the west just despise the federal government. That's it. During the first Bundy siege, in Nevada, the Blanding locals drove their ATV's down Recapture Pocket (I believe that is the name). It is a canyon that the BLM closed to vehicular traffic due to all of the ruins.
Another time, to prevent a wilderness listing, one of those SE Utah counties took a road grader and put in a dirt road, to stop the Wilderness designation.
Look at Moab. It is booming from tourism. Now I do miss the old days, when it was a sleepy mining bust town, business has gone up a thousand percent since then.
Likewise, the area west of Blanding is some of the coolest country in the whole plateau. The local don't really use it, and now most of the canyon country is now protected to some degree or other. The Bears Ear monument will not hamper any existing activity or use.
That is what most of Bears Ears is. It protects some incredible paleo sites.
|
|
Pete_N
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
|
|
Thanks for the alert and the information. What can folks who know tell us about the protections that DO come with National Monument designation? It sounds like some hunting, fishing, even grazing are allowed, presumably with the same level of regulation that you'd expect anywhere in the country, but what is the conservation benefit? Frankly, I worry less about mineral extractions and fracking than I do about the OHV use and damage to Native American sites, but maybe I have things backwards.
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
|
|
Protections given to monuments vary, and depend on the proclamation and subsequent management plans and regulations established by the managing agency. Typically existing rights are preserved, including mineral, timber and grazing rights. Monuments are not wilderness designations and are not national parks and plenty of people and groups do not think monument status is sufficiently protective.
In my opinion cows cause the most widespread harm. They destroy riparian habitat, knock over ruins and crap out meadows. Making matters worse, there is no real economic benefit to anyone from public lands grazing, including the cattle owners who are essentially on welfare (or are actually on welfare in many cases).
|
|
Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
|
|
I was in Salt Lake City for a few days helping my son work on his house, we went to two rallies on this issue. This picture is from the Saturday event at the capitol, Sunday we were on the street when Zinke came in for a meeting and press conference. There are a lot of people in Utah fired up over the issue, and it's a broad coalition. The inter-tribal cooperation to bring about the Bears Ears monument is nothing less than remarkable. I hadn't realized the review period is bookended by two Utah Monuments: Escalante-Grand Staircase is the oldest monument up for review.
|
|
Jkruse
Trad climber
Las Cruces, NM
|
|
http://www.fieldandstream.com/keep-public-lands-in-public-hands
Good article on the subject that reflects the wide ranging groups and perspectives that are opposed to this bull sh#t. Preserving public lands should be a non-partisan issue. I spend time in the Organ Mountains Desert Peaks multiple times a week--climbing, biking, and hiking. Guaranteed Zinke and Trump and most likely everyone else involved in this legislation have never set foot here. The monument has overwhelming support from the local communities. These numb skulls need to leave this issue alone.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
May 10, 2017 - 08:30am PT
|
right now the website doesn't seem to find anything in the search... the announcement prescribes:
Comments may be submitted online after May 12 at http://www.regulations.gov by entering “DOI-2017-0002” in the Search bar and clicking “Search,”
but this doesn't turn up anything in the search. Hopefully by Friday the link will be available.
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
|
May 10, 2017 - 08:56am PT
|
I was in Salt Lake City for a few days helping my son work on his house, we went to two rallies on this issue. This picture is from the Saturday event at the capitol, Sunday we were on the street when Zinke came in for a meeting and press conference. There are a lot of people in Utah fired up over the issue, and it's a broad coalition. The inter-tribal cooperation to bring about the Bears Ears monument is nothing less than remarkable. I hadn't realized the review period is bookended by two Utah Monuments: Escalante-Grand Staircase is the oldest monument up for review.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/keep-public-lands-in-public-hands
Good article on the subject that reflects the wide ranging groups and perspectives that are opposed to this bull sh#t. Preserving public lands should be a non-partisan issue. I spend time in the Organ Mountains Desert Peaks multiple times a week--climbing, biking, and hiking. Guaranteed Zinke and Trump and most likely everyone else involved in this legislation have never set foot here. The monument has overwhelming support from the local communities. These numb skulls need to leave this issue alone. It's ironic that many of the people who visit National monuments are people that voted for trump.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
|
|
|
May 10, 2017 - 10:08am PT
|
From reading EO 13792 posted by Ed Hartouni above, my concern is not the loss of monument status of any of these places. I would be concerned if after losing monument status the land would be returned to the states, but I understand that BLM/NFS will continue to manage them.
More concerning are the parts about shrinking the boundaries of the monuments. For example, in Section 2 it says
In making those determinations, the Secretary shall consider:
(i) the requirements and original objectives of the Act, including the Act’s requirement that reservations of land not exceed ‘‘the smallest area compatible with the proper care and management of the objects to be protected’’;
My question is, if they decide to reduce the size of one of these places, what do they do with the land that has been eliminated? Return it to the state to sell to someone who wants to build a motel? If the idea is to protect the Indian ruins (for example) and allow ranching in other areas under BLM management, then I would be fine with this.
|
|
riemannzetagambit
Trad climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
May 10, 2017 - 10:41am PT
|
Thanks for the link to the EO, Ed Hartouni.
Say what you will about the specifics of the EO and the fate of the post-1996 monuments, given the organization I've seen from the AAC and others for the Climb the Hill delegation, it's interesting that one of the positive aspects of climbing becoming so popular is that it now carries political clout (a meager amount, to be sure). We are a 'special interest' now.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
May 11, 2017 - 11:09am PT
|
Was there land that was not held by the Feds used in the creation of these NM's?
I don't think so, but if there are private tracts, easements to them will still be protected, and they will become inholdings inside an area of designation.
A Forest Service inholding is worth a ton of money. Who wouldn't want to own an inholding where there are no neighbors?
Its property value will triple. I've searched for inholdings before, and they hit the market very rarely, and at a super high cost.
edit: I've spent a lot of time in the area, and ownership of the land is on a checkerboard pattern, with varying ownership. There might be some state of Utah land in there. The state of Utah owns a butt load of land in the desert. It seems to receive the same inattention that the BLM normally gives.
|
|
Nuglet
Trad climber
Orange Murica!
|
|
|
May 11, 2017 - 12:08pm PT
|
Really looking forward to be able to drive an ATV right to Castleton!
#MAGA
|
|
Bluelens
Social climber
Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
May 13, 2017 - 10:36am PT
|
Just submitted a comment in support of the outstanding natural qualities of my local NM. Laura
|
|
BenJamN
climber
WA State
|
|
|
May 13, 2017 - 10:55am PT
|
It certainly is maddening that land owned by the people can be set aside as a national monument more than 20 years ago and now be challenged due to selfish interests. We must stand up and yell! Contact your congressional representatives, senators and governors to tell them this is not fair nor right for us a nation or us in the future.
As Scott McNamara pointed out please utilize this great tool created by the Access Fund...
The Access Fund has made writing a letter about the Bears Ears very easy.
It has a canned letter.
You can add or subtract from it.
https://www.accessfund.org/take-action/campaigns/tell-secretary-zinke-not-to-rescind-or-reduce-bears-ears-national-monument
We owe it to tomorrow's children to protect public lands from the development cancer...
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
May 13, 2017 - 07:48pm PT
|
#impeachthedespot
|
|
Hardly Visible
Social climber
Llatikcuf WA
|
|
|
May 16, 2017 - 10:49am PT
|
#thisdeservestobeonthefrontpage
#writealettertoday
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2017 - 01:46pm PT
|
Bump. Every climber who cares about access should be writing during the comment period. Both the Access Fund and and Patagonia have templates to make it easy to send a letter. Remember, this is about more than Bears Ears. It's also about Grand Staircase Escalante and the Giant Sequoia Nat. Mon., where the Needles are located and which needs protection from logging to preserve the Sequoia groves there, which are the southernmost group in the state.
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
|
Jun 12, 2017 - 08:47am PT
|
Rumor has it that Zinke is delaying a decision on Bears Ears until later this year.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Jun 12, 2017 - 08:55pm PT
|
here is a NYTimes article about Bears Ears
http://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/12/us/interior-secretary-public-lands-utah-bears-ears.html
Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke on Monday proposed significantly scaling back the borders of a national monument in southeastern Utah, in a legally unprecedented move that opponents say violates a century-old law signed by President Theodore Roosevelt...
which links to the "interim report:"
http://www.scribd.com/document/351066813/Interim-Report-EO-13792
"The Department received approximately 76,500 comments on BENM, the majority of which also commented on the overall review. These include comments from Members of Congress, governors, state and tribal leaders and the public. Comments expressed a variety of views on the BENM; however Federal and State elected officials from Utah strongly opposed the current BENM boundary."
the full text:
THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR
WASHINGTON
JUN 10 2017
MEMORANDUM TO THE PRESIDENT
FROM: RYAN K. ZINKE
SUBJECT: Interim Report Pursuant to Executive Order 13792
I. SUMMARY
In the final weeks of his second term, President Obama exercised his authority under the
Antiquities Act (Act) to designate the Bears Ears National Monument (BENM) in Utah. The
external boundary of BENM encompasses almost 1.5 million acres of land. The lands within
BENM consist of Federal lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) within the
Department of the Interior (Department) and U.S. Forest Service (USFS) within the Department
of Agriculture; the external boundary also encompasses sections of State land and smaller private
parcels, one of which is owned by The Nature Conservancy. While there are designated
wilderness and wilderness study areas (WSAs) within BENM, much of the land is compatible
with multiple-use practices, including recreation; grazing; timber harvest; mining; and traditional
activities such as gathering of medicinal herbs and plants, hunting, fishing, and wood-gathering.
The BENM contains unique geologic features and objects of historic or scientific interest
deemed culturally important to Native American tribes, including artifacts, rock art,
archeological sites, dwellings, and areas used for traditional rituals, gatherings, and tribal
practices. Selected Native tribes have a formal advisory role under Proclamation No. 9558,
but are not authorized a formal management role under existing law.
The Act authorizes the President to designate objects of scientific or historic interest on Federal
lands for protection as a monument as defined in the establishing proclamation, but the authority
to reserve lands as part of a monument is limited to an area that is "the smallest area compatible"
with the proper care and management of those objects. The protection of qualifying objects
within the monument can be identified and reasonably segregated to reflect the "smallest area
compatible" intent and to concentrate preservation resouces.
Therefore, in consultation with the Secretary of Agriculture, the Secretary of the Interior
(Secretary) recommends that (1) the existing boundary of the BENM be modified to be
consistent with the intent of the Act; (2) Congress authorize tribal co-management of designated
cultural areas; (3) Congress designate selected areas within the existing BENM as national
recreation areas or national conservation areas, as defined by law; and (4) Congress clarify the
intent of the management practices of wilderness or WSAs within a monument.
II. INTRODUCTION AND PURPOSE
Executive Order 13792, "Presidential Executive Order on the Review of Designations Under the
Antiquities Act," dated April 26, 2017 (Order), directs the Secretary to conduct a review of
certain Presidential designations made under the Act, to determine if the designations conform to
the policies set forth in the Order. The Order further directs the Secretary to provide two reports
summarizing his review:
(1) an Interim Report under section 2(d), due within 45 days, addressing the Bears Ears
National Monument established by Proclamation No. 9558, dated December 28,
2016, and "other such designations as the Secretary determines to be appropriate for
inclusion"; and
(2) a Final Report under section 2(e), due within 120 days, summarizing the findings of
the review for all other monument designations covered by the Order.
The Order directs the Secretary to include recommendations in both reports for "Presidential
actions, legislative proposals, or other actions consistent with law" to conform designations to
the policy set forth in the Order.
This memorandum constitutes the Interim Report under section 2(d) of the Order and addresses
the findings of the Secretary's review of BENM.
III. BACKGROUND
A. The Antiquities Act
Passed in 1906, the Act, now codified at 54 U.S.C. 320301 -320303, authorizes the President to:
"declare by public proclamation historic landmarks, historic and prehistoric structures, and other
objects of historic or scientific interest that are situated on land owned or controlled by the
Federal Government to be national monuments." 54 U.S.C. 320301(a). The Act also authorizes
the President to reserve parcels of Federal land as part of such monuments, but limits those
reservations to "the smallest area compatible [emphasis added] with the proper care and
management of the objects to be protected." 54 U.S.C. 320301(b).
Shortly after passage of the Act President Theodore Roosevelt first utilized the Act's authority
to designate the 1200-acre Devils Tower National Monument in Wyoming. In addition to
President Roosevelt, 15 other Presidents have exercised the authority to designate monuments
more than 150 times.
Although there are many instances of the use of the Act for the proper stewardship of objects of
historic or scientific interest, concerns have been raised regarding (1) the use of the Act to
designate "landscape" monuments that reserve large areas of Federal lands for the purposes of
restricting public access and traditional uses; (2) the use of monument designations to prevent or
restrict land use rather than to "protect" and preserve objects of significance; (3) the process by
which Presidents have exercised such authority, including whether it included proper public
outreach and coordination with state, tribal, and local officials; and (4) the potential losses of
economic opportunity and jobs as a result of a monument designation.
B. Executive Ordar 13792
The President signed Executive Order 13792 on April 27, 2017. Echoing the concerns noted
above, section I of the Order states:
Designations of national monuments under the [Antiquities Act], have a substantial impact
on the management of Federal lands and the use and enjoyment of neighboring lands. Such
designations are a means of stewarding America's natural resources, protecting America's
natural beauty, and preserving America's historic places. Monument designations that
result from a lack of public outreach and proper coordination with State, tribal, and local
officials and other relevant stakeholders may also create barriers to achieving energy
independence, restrict public access to and use of Federal lands, burden State, tribal, and
local governments, and otherwise curtail economic growth. Designations should be made
in accordance with the requirements and original objectives of the Act and appropriately
balance the protection of landmarks, structures, and objects against the appropriate use of
Federal lands and the effects on surrounding lands and communities.
The Order directs the Secretary to review all designations or expansions resulting in a
designation covering more than 100,000 acres or any other designations that the Secretary
determines were "made without adequate public outreach and coordination with relevant
stakeholders" to determine whether it conforms to the policy set forth in section 1. The Order
listed several factors for the Secretary to consider when making that determination:
(1) the requirements and original objectives of the Act, including the Acts requirement that
reservations of land "...be confined to the smallest area compatible with the proper care
and management of the objects to be protected";
(2) whether designated lands are appropriately classified under the Act as historic landmarks,
historic and prehistoric structures, [or] other objects of historic or scientific interest;
(3) the effects of a designation on the available uses of designated Federal lands, including
consideration of the multiple-use policy of section 102(a)(7) of the Federal Lend Policy
and Management Act (43 U.S.C. 1701(a)(7)), as well as the effects on the available uses
of Federal lands beyond the BENM boundaries;
(4) the effects of a designation on the use and enjoyment of non-Federal lands within or
beyond the BENM boundaries;
(5) concerns of state, tribal, and local governments affected by a designation, including the
economic development and fiscal condition of affected states, tribes, and localities;
(6) the availability of Federal resources to properly manage designated areas; and
(7) such other factors as the Secretary deems appropriate.
As noted above, section 2 of the Order directs the Secretary to provide, within 45 days of the
date of the Order, an Interim Report regarding the BENM, including the results of the review and
any resulting recommendations.
C. Bears Ears National Monument
The BENM was established by Proclamation No. 9558, dated December 28, 2016. It consists of
1,351,849 acres of Federal land in San Juan County, Utah, and is jointly managed by BLM
(1.063 million acres) and USFS (290,000 acres), When accounting for State land and private
land within the boundaries of BENM, the total area encompassed is close to 1,500,000 acres.
This is four times larger than Canyonlands - the largest national park in Utah, which is almost
340,000 acres.
Within BENM, there are areas that contain numerous cultural and archeological sites, unique
geologic features, and areas important to the practicing of tribal cultural traditions and
ceremonies to include the collection of medicinal and ceremonial plants. Portions of the area are
also home to significant recreational opportunities, including hiking, backpacking, canyoneering,
mountain biking, and rock climbing.
Also within and adjacent to the BENM boundaries, numerous management authorities and plans
govern the patchwork of Federal, State, and private lands. Directly adjacent to the BENM is
Glen Canyon National Recreation Area, which is managed by the National Park Service (NPS),
as well as Natural Bridges National Monument. National recreation areas, which can be
managed by BLM, USFS, or NPS, are generally designated by Congress with the purpose of
promoting recreation potential of national significance. The BENM also overlaps 11 BLM
WSAs aggregating approximately 381,000 acres, which BLM is required to manage so as not to
impair their suitability for preservation as wilderness by Congress until Congress determines
otherwise. The BENM also overlaps the 46,353-acre Dark Canyon Wilderness on USFS lands,
which is required to manage so as to preserve its wildeness characteristics under the Wilderness
Act of 1964. Further, much of the area was subject to special management to protect natural,
cultural, and historic resources under BLM and USFS management plans in existence prior to
designation of the BENM.
Tho Proclamation No. 9558 (1) retains the existing management responsibility for the lands in
the respective Agencies; (2) establishes a local advisory committee consisting of interested
stakeholders including State and local governments, tribes, recreational users, local business
owners, and private landowners; and (3) establishes the Bears Ears Commission consisting of
representatives of the Hopi Tribe, Navajo Nation, Ute Mountain Ute Tribe, Ute Indian Tribe of
the Uintah and Ouray Reservation, and Zuni Tribe. The Commission does not include the Native
American San Juan County Commissioner elected by the majority-Native American voting
district in that County.
D. Review Process
The Department issued a press release on May 5, 2017, announcing the impending publication of
a notice in the Federal Register seeking public comment on the review. Public comments are
being received by the Department both online at Regulations.gov and by mail. Comments on
BENM were due at Regulations.gov on or before May 26, 2017, or by mail postmarked on or
before May 26, 2017.
The Department received approximately 76,500 comments on BENM, the majority of which also
commented on the overall review. These include comments from Members of Congress,
governors, state and tribal leaders, and the public. Comments expressed a variety of views on
the BENM; however Federal and State elected officials from Utah strongly oppose the current
BENM boundary.
IV. RESULTS OF THE INTERIM REVIEW
The BENM contain some objects that are appropriate for protection under the Act. This includes
rock art, dwellings, ceremonial sites, granaries, and other cultural resources that reflect its long
historical and cultural significance to Native Americans. There are also areas that may not
include objects but are of importance to tribes for traditional cultural practices. However, having
conducted tte review set forth in section 2 of the Order, in consultation with the Secretary of
Agriculture and based on information to date I find that the designation of the BENM does not
fully conform with the policies set forth in section I of the Order.
Specifically, the review shows that rather than designating an area encompassing almost
1.5 million acres as a national monument, it would have been more appropriate to identify and
separate the areas that have significant objects to to protected to meet the purposes of the Act,
including that the area reserved be limited to the smallest area compatible with the proper care
and management of the objects. Additionally, many of the lands reserved as part of BENM are
already congressionally or administratively protected - in some cases, such as designated
wilderness or WSA, which may provide a higher level of protection - such that designation
under the Act was unnecessary. Moreover, other lands within the BENM ate more appropriately
set aside under another type of special designation, such as a national recreation area. For those
areas that should remain protected under the Act, some management prescriptions appear to be
too restrictive, and tribal interests have not been granted an adequate role in management of
BENM given the unique significance of the area to tribes and their traditional knowledge,
expertise, and use.
V. INTERIM RECOMMENDATIONS
As a result of the review, and in consultation with the Secretary of Agriculture, I make the
following interim recommendations. I recommend that:
 the BENM boundary be revised through the use of appropriate authority, including lawful
exercise of the President's authority granted by the Act;
the President request congressional authority to enable tribal co-management of
designated cultural areas within the revised BENM boundaries;
Congress make more appropriate conservation designations within the current BENM
such as national recreation areas or national conservation areas, as defined by law; and
Congress clarify the intent of the management practices of wilderness or WSAs within a
monument.
I further recommend that the Department of the Interior conclude the full review under
section 2(d) of the Order before more specific recommendations are made regarding the Bears
Ears National Monument.
cc: Director, Office of Management and Budget
Assistant to the President for Economic Policy
Assistant to the Prresident for Domestic Policy
Chairman, Council on Environmental Quality
|
|
monolith
climber
state of being
|
|
|
Aug 24, 2017 - 08:34am PT
|
But what about reducing their size?
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Aug 24, 2017 - 09:50am PT
|
And adding cattle grazing to the Gawd-given right to enjoy National Monuments. Why the heck don't cattle get to enjoy them monuments too?
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Aug 24, 2017 - 07:28pm PT
|
Oh, Zinke is going to have Bear's Ears, Grand Staircase-Escalante, Cascade-Siskiyou, and Katahdin Woods and Waters diminished.
Get ready for some large, large lawsuits.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2017 - 08:36am PT
|
^ I would retract my previous comment. I think the headline that none of the monuments were going to be eliminated, was an overly positive spin by the reporter. There is still no telling what they are going to do, including drilling and mining. The problem I have with those things is that they never clean up after they're done. Escalante in particular is a fantastic place, not where you'd want to have a huge coal mining operation.
Utah may be trading a dinosaur wonder for a coal mine
|
|
Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2017 - 09:10am PT
|
I'll be interested in his analysis/approach that support his decision. It will be FOIA'd, made public and I understand the CBD is already on it.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2017 - 04:23pm PT
|
Here's a comment that needs no further comment:
|
|
| Messages 1 - 65 of total 65 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!