Discussion Topic |
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Wogman
Social climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 22, 2017 - 01:53pm PT
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Greetings, I have been working on this project for about 7 months. I have spoken with Yosemite, rock climbers and many sources. I am planning an ascent to the summit of Half Dome via the John Muir trail, sub dome, and the cables on May 20th 2017. The rock climbing gear has been donated, along with the Trailrider all terrain wheelchair. I need sherpas with rock climbing experience. For more information check out the Facebook link below. Get involved!
https://www.facebook.com/allaccessible/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel
Cheers!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 22, 2017 - 01:58pm PT
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Could you elaborate what you need help with? Must of us on this forum hate Facebook.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Apr 22, 2017 - 01:58pm PT
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May might be a bit optimistic. Cable route less than 2 weeks ago:
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Apr 22, 2017 - 02:11pm PT
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Hey there Wogman,
I appreciate your gusto and watched your entire video and checked out the website. My only concern is the part in the video that said you planned to use the stanchions (the vertical steel struts) for the cables ascent and that you would be using them to anchor/haul the Trailrider. You might want to talk to the head of search and rescue before doing this. Those things are not permanent fixtures and aren't meant to bear weight like that. They are simply used to hold the cables up off of the rock. They are not permanent fixtures and I wouldn't assume they are meant to bear weight like you seem to intend to do. I would never trust my life or my bodyweight or my companions bodyweight to those things if they were being used to haul off of.
Just a thought. Try to track down somebody with a bit more experience with what you are trying to do. I'm sure all different types of disabled folks have gone up there using various methods. You definitely need to have a couple people who have been up-and-down those cables on your team. Also, it looks like your rig would take up the entire space inside the cables. That could pose a hazard or at least a real big drag to people trying to go up and down that day. You might want to consider doing it at night..... or in the hour before dawn since it will probably take you and your team a good bit of time.
Go hard!
Scott
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 22, 2017 - 02:21pm PT
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The Mist trail will be a nightmare with that rig and the crowds. Might want to bivy in LYV and do a pre-dawn start.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 22, 2017 - 02:42pm PT
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You can totally do the route! Ditch the wheelchair at the cables, then you are lighter? Keep blogging here. Someone wiser than me knows how to do it. I cant wait to see pics of you top out that thing!
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 22, 2017 - 02:55pm PT
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If there are alot of people on the route, they can help you. Perhaps make the date of your send known on this forum when weather allows. Perhaps folks who are interested will want to climb the route and work with you. If ten parties on the route that day are groovy, they can leapfrog you up. Are your arms strong enough to jumar up a three to one? Put a gri gir on you and put your TR through it. Put a jumar upstream on the taught rope. Put the tail coming from your gri gri through a biner on the jumar. Pull the rope and up you go. Slow but sure. I bet parties would anchor your rope.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 22, 2017 - 03:08pm PT
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Put up flyers in camp 4 and Marys Pizza Shak. I might be able to come set up rigging ahead of you. Also, contact Hans Florine. He manages Touchstone Concord. Their name may have changed to Diablo Rock Club. But Concord they are. Touchstone is a big supporter of adventures like yours. Contact management. And Hans is great at go fast rigging. Also obsessed with what can be measured. His best quote: if it can be measured, it can be improved. The anchors on the cables may be feeble. But you arent leading it. Use lotsa rope for anchor material and tie lotsa knots. The cables are not coming down. Be sensible and you can anchor off the cables. Dont push your luck. Do it right. Fix lines ahead of time or have a leapfrog setting fixed lines ahead of you. Its so doable!
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hagerty
Social climber
A Sandy Area South of a Salty Lake
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Apr 22, 2017 - 04:51pm PT
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Micronut wrote:
Also, it looks like your rig would take up the entire space inside the cables. That could pose a hazard or at least a real big drag to people trying to go up and down that day. You might want to consider doing it at night..... or in the hour before dawn since it will probably take you and your team a good bit of time.
In high season it can look like this:
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 22, 2017 - 04:57pm PT
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That picture above is pre-permit cables. Of course getting permits for your sherpas will not be easy, assuming the cables are even up.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 22, 2017 - 05:03pm PT
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Most folks frequenting the ST are disabled in some fashion.
Just how much harder is it, speaking quantitatively, to go up that 1/2 Dome without the cables vs. with the cables.
Compare that with the Atlantic Ocean.
Haul on that bowline.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 22, 2017 - 05:05pm PT
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More seriously, Godspeed with your venture Wogman.
There are some good, albeit disabled , folks on the ST.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 22, 2017 - 06:39pm PT
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1st and most important ...
How much do you weight?
Having hauled hundreds of people down that trail is no fun at all what to speak of hauling you up that trail.
What trail wheelchair do you even have?
If it's that single wheel gizmo you're in for a big surprise .........
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 22, 2017 - 10:13pm PT
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hey there say... wow, supertopo has the info, for sure...
guided by prudence-of-mind... wishing the best to you...
these supertopo-guys know what they are talking about...
this is one of those times, when the 'abundance of counselors' DOES help...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 22, 2017 - 11:30pm PT
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This is a similar trip. The South Kaibab trail is similar to the Mist trail. The Bright Angel trail is close to being a road. With enough harnesses maybe you could do the cables, but keeping the chair balanced could be a challenge.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 22, 2017 - 11:45pm PT
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hey there say, kunlun_shan, and all... wow, the videos are really interesting, and exploring new ways to help folks get to enjoy the parks, and hikes is wonderful...
the only thing, that i ( i know, i know, too much mommy) well, that
i think is needing stricter attention, is this:
the part about being safe... they mention, making it safe...
actually, you really can't make the cables 'safe' as to a quarentee...
no matter what shape us humans are in, physically well, or not, well:
these cables are NOT safe-- they are an adventure that could go wrong...
better to be said:
to make IT AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE... as to the situation of the terrain...
they are a dangerous climb, and it would be
PRUDENT to at least make sure that those that DO WANT to still
do that climb, KNOW THAT, beyond all info, first...
as they say about climbing:
'do so at your own risk'
(like the warning, here on the website of supertopo)
Climbing is dangerous. Climb at your own risk.
so, please, i do not mean to be 'wet blanket' just that
it is best to not note a full 'safety' in the situation, oh my...
still, wishing the best to those that have that wonderful
spirit of adventure...
that is WHAT LIFE IS all about, and we all have our dream...
and-- it IS WONDERFUL when others can help us reach them!
:)
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 23, 2017 - 12:11am PT
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You can drag yourself up that shyt on ropes. Ditch the chair and trust your crew. You need four people. Two who will leapfrog (swing leads) your ropes and gear. Two who will attend to your progress and safety. Technically, because you are making a technical assent, the park might let you bivy near the top off the route on the slab. Talk to Chongo about long hauls. He might suggest that you have to do the route. If you are patient and take time on this forum and at camp 4, you will find helpers. For me, any challenge at technical rigging is fun stuff. The stuff of climbing! I dont care the route is 4th class. The challenge of what you propose makes it very appealing. Are you okay with maybe getting hauled (dragged) up and lowered (slid) down? If you are willing to be hauled, we can make it. It will take all day, but its very doable. I need a ride. But I got gear and can maybe recruit other climbers. I think that many people on the cables would help haul if some pros are helping out. We will need to get permission from park service I think. I bet some YOSAR guys would see your ascent and decent as a training opportunity. If they lend a hand, they get training and props. What does Werner think?
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Apr 23, 2017 - 12:28am PT
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this is a nice idea... without further clarification by the o.p. it is currently looking, to put it politely, ill informed.
you [Wogman] say you've spoken to "Yosemite": who specifically?
'cause realistically unless you get them to shut permits down for the day so you can have the cables to yourself, i can't see anyone with any authority approving your plan to haul the one wheeled wheelchair up there on a regularly permitted day.
chainsaw's approach sounds more realistic. i suspect even that is going to be a logistical challenge both due to the actual climbing itself but also due to having to navigate the bureaucratic requirements that would be needed to use the cables in that manner...
while i applaud your gung ho attitude, you don't seem to give any indication that you understand a. how steep the cables are or b. how heavily used the cables are...
and so right now, unless you've just done a very poor job of communicating your plan and these difficulties have already been accounted for, i hope you get a lot more information before you start tilting at too many windmills. 'cause in this case, the windmills may turn out to be actual giants.
best of luck though. i do believe if there is a will there is a way...
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 23, 2017 - 01:08am PT
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Here's a guy who wants to send the route. Can we do it?
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Apr 23, 2017 - 09:11am PT
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Yep, Hans will get it done. Probably before the cables go up, so no permits needed and no crowds.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 23, 2017 - 09:14am PT
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Wow, it sure would be fun to ski (tele) the Cable Route, and Snake Dike with a good snow pack
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 23, 2017 - 05:48pm PT
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I've gone up the cables right before sunrise before, zero folks except our party. Good way to avoid crowds, but these days the pre-sunrise approach might be more popular too?
What about having a support crew rig up long fixed ropes apart from the cables area, and jumaring up that?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 27, 2017 - 08:40am PT
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This may be a comment that brings lots of protest, but (after watching the video) I have to say no one is being 'discriminated' against by trails, or steep rocks, or cables, or climbing. Maybe it's just not realistic for certain people to go up there. I don't feel 'discriminated' against because I can't climb 5.11 and I certainly don't expect steps and handholds to be chipped to make it possible for me. I don't feel discriminated against because I'm old and weak and will never climb Denali without an escalator.
I appreciate the desire to get up there, but this is not a discrimination issue. It's a fact of life. We can't all do and go where we want to. As many have commented, there are others out there also, and your taking a wheeled device up the cables will impact those persons. Maybe this isn't a good goal.
It's a great goal to have some trails that allow wheeled devices to ascend, but not all should be accessible to everyone, lest we drive everything to a lowest common denominator.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 27, 2017 - 01:50pm PT
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The OP is confusing discrimination with reasonable accommodation.
The NPS policy on access is spelled out in Directors Order #42
https://www.nps.gov/policy/dorders/DOrder42.html
This order defines reasonable as
Reasonable means not only capable of being accomplished, but also within the bounds of common sense and sound judgment when considering other factors such as costs, benefits, the nature of the environment, and NPS responsibilities toward protecting park resources and values.
Hauling a wheelchair up a mountain would never be considered reasonable. A lot of what handicapped athletes now do is not necessarily reasonable. The NPS is not required to give everyone equal access. Just reasonable access.
This does not mean that such ventures should be discouraged, but hanging the burden on NPS is ridiculous.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 27, 2017 - 02:51pm PT
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Thing is, for a healthy, good, hiker, it is a long, long day to do it in a day; then over night there are more logistics.
I would get together with other disabled people who dream of being atop Half Dome, and hire a helicopter; the NPS would, I hope, give permission. I find the hike to be such a long slog, I don't enjoy it that much. But it would be great if the NPS could perhaps designate a day or two each year, where Half Dome is specifically open to heli-trips for people with disabilities. More good for a larger number.
If you really feel that getting there is half the fun, well, I don't want to discourage you. But the hike itself is not all that great in many respects, it might get old for you pretty quickly
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Damn this looks high
Trad climber
Idyllwild, CA
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Noble goal but...man! A logistical nightmare. Definitely a must to camp before and afterward in Little Yosemite Valley primarily for those helping make it happen. Having taken my autistic son up the cables, I am all for trying to help almost anyone get up there. It is a worthy endeavor.
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Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
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First of all there is no way the cables will even be in place on May 20. They are rarely in place before memorial day. As has already been stated the sierras have had a massive snow year and it's optimistic to think that the road over tioga pass will be open before middle to late june. Second you're going to need a hauling system to move that rig up half dome. A 1 wheel device will tip over and will need at least 1 person on each side to keep it up right. You really need something with 2 wheels that can be hauled without requiring people to keep something heavy upright on a polished slab. That chair might be fine to get someone to the base but it is unsuited to bringing a person up the final slab. Hauling a person up the cable route will take most of a day and will effectively shut down half dome for a day. In addition I would definitely check to see how strong those posts are. They aren't bolts and may not be suited to being used as a haul anchor. I'm all for everyone having access but this idea would put a lot of people at significant risk and the chair you are suggesting does't look like it fits the bill. You might be better suited to getting a permit to helicopter the person to the top. Sorry to be a buzzkill
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Spanky and others nailed it - no way this can happen on May 20. Snow.
Half Dome has already been ascended by a paraplegic.
Mark Wellman did it with Mike Corbett in 1991.
Mark rode a mule on the John Muir Trail and then up to the base of the sub dome. Then they went to the base of the NW Face and up Tis-sa-ack.
Sean O'Neill also rode a mule on his 2012 attempt of the NW Face with his brother Timmy O'Neill and team.
http://www.patagonia.com/blog/2012/10/pull-half-dome/
Given that the current project is not going to be self-propelled up the JMT, the person (unnamed?) might as well ride a mule, too. Mules are the natural way to do transport logistics.
And not on May 20! Wait until the snow is gone; maybe July.
For the sub-dome just carry the person on your back. Otherwise you are hauling a bunch of heavy steel up each step. For the cables you could do the same thing, maybe with a belay.
If you want to haul someone up near the cables, do it to the left of the cables, and you will want a frame with 2 wheels so it is stable (as others have mentioned). You can build anchors out there as a climbing route and you won't interfere with people going up and down the cables. You can't do with with "volunteer climber sherpas". You need a real climber in charge, with their close friends on the team, so they are all people who know what they are doing.
Overall, your plan is poor, but could be improved. It takes better planning than what you have tried in isolation.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Snow is melting fast and it will be a good thing if the cables are down. No permits, smaller crowds. But someone like Hans will be required as has been suggested numerous times.
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WBraun
climber
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Meh .... the OP Wogman made only one post period to his thread here.
The guy doesn't care .......
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, spanky... i was wondering how this situation was going...
good to hear your input here...
thanks for sharing...
i wondered if the o.p. had HAD a chance to
learn from all you guys...
but i just saw, there's not a post here, yet, as to that...
good to hear so many folks chipped in, to get strong info out there...
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JerryA
Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
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Have you been to the summit of North Dome ? The grand view of Half Dome & the Valley are well worth it , dramatically less crowded ,& a lot more mellow .Take a look at the Porcupine Creek trail to North Dome & the trails from North Dome to Yosemite Falls overlook & on Yosemite Creek back to Hwy.120 . Good luck !
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Feb 20, 2019 - 07:34pm PT
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I came across this thread searching for something else.
He posted to facebook soon after this thread in May 2017:
Due to an unusual amount of snow this year the trip will have to be postponed. Stay tuned for more.
Unfortunately there was too much snow to take the Trailrider for a spin. None of the lottery entries were selected either for after the cables go up so we will have to wait until next year.
LOL. I imagine he hiked up there for the first time after posting here and realized how incredibly challenging this hike would be. No mention of trying it in 2018!
The video mentioned the first step on The All Accessible Project would be Half Dome!!! Really? That's like: I want to learn how to fly and my first step will be to the moon. How about Sentinel Dome? A 2.1 mile moderate hike with 450 feet elevation gain. Not a 16.5 mile trip with 4,800 feet elevation gain with the long cables covering 5th class slabs.
I think this is possible, but as everyone mentions there needed to be way more experience to develop a reasonable plan. IMO you would want a chair with at least two wheels, ascending to the side of the cables. You could anchor into the cables (I know there is at least spot on the way up where the cables are anchored), but not the stanchions. You could build an A frame which would position a pulley (Petzl pro traxion?) a few feet to the side of the cables. I would have two people hike up, anchor in, and serve as a counterweight to pull the chair/person up. Repeat that 4-10 times.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Feb 20, 2019 - 09:38pm PT
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replica Dolt cart would be cool
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| Messages 1 - 37 of total 37 in this topic |
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