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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Done!
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Done.
I'm curious how many Rock Climbing Section members of the Sierra Club know that the Sierra Club is one of the main players in getting Williamson closed. I know that there is a site visit with the NFS, CBD, FOWR, it's a closed site visit so I won't divulge the date but I find it interesting that the Sierra Club is not part of the meeting and especially the Climbing Section who I would think would want their members to know that they were instrumental in getting the area closed.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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The Sierra Club has not had a "Rock Climbing Section" for decades.
The Southern California Mountaineering Association has take up the mantle and is doing fine however.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Looking Sketchy,
Thanks I thought the group that meets at Crystal Springs in Griffith Park was part of the Sierra Club. Still, there has to be a ton of Sierra Club members who climb or climbed at Williamson who would be interested to know their group closed Willy.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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SCMA is RCS since 88 or 89.
There may be a sort of Ghost RCS. Old timers going out and stuff.
SCMA quit meeting at Griffith Park a couple of years ago. It was expensive and slide shows every other month kind of passe' since an hour or so on you tube searching your favorite area will blow your mind.
We have been co-meeting with Cal Tech Alpine club and AAC when they have stuff in Pasadena.
Still have multiple trips each month. Campsites in JT, Yose, Red Rocks and other cool trips. Meetings were no big deal and often poorly attended.
Unlikely people of SCMA worked to block Williamson. We were heavy users.
petition signed
Very possible someone in Sierra Club is working to continue blockage. A few who just like to stop things. You'd have to join and get in there to really find out. Or get someone who is deeply involved to name names.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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bump worthy
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Signed.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Signed
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Really poorly written with a nonsense assertion / rationale that will gain absolutely zero traction with the folks who are the target of the petition. Great as a complaint, lousy as a 'petition' - would strongly recommend revising.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2017 - 10:39pm PT
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I have a recommendation for you
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toejahm
Trad climber
Chatsworth, CA
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Fini!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Um? What Joeseph said!
Seems like another life
A blond and a red head
Went climbing straight from the set
Now Jeff was there and he might just remember?
The red head was well endowed
The blond not at all.
The red head gave out a phone number,
The blond came and went with me
It seems another life time
Re-Open a historic place!
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Really poorly written with a nonsense assertion / rationale that will gain absolutely zero traction with the folks who are the target of the petition. Great as a complaint, lousy as a 'petition' - would strongly recommend revising.
Yep. That petition isn't likely to accomplish anything. It isn't even addressed to the correct agency. Here is the most recent closure order from just a couple of weeks ago. It's unlikely anything is going to change until the EIS is completed.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd536828.pdf
Curt
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Signed. joe's right, it's a shitty petition, but i still want to climb there someday.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2017 - 08:23am PT
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The critics here are just that.
I have been working on reopening this place since it's closure and do know what agency has the power to open it because I have met with their supervisors.
The assertion that WR was closed due to threats/actions from CBD, Seirra Club, etc.. is also correct.
Whatever. Sign it or move on. You don't have to be a dick about it.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Done.... Pud, thank you for your efforts.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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It's not about being a dick. If anyone is serious about really trying to reopen the place then 'petitions' like this one are entirely counter-productive - all it will do is piss off some of the very folks you need to get a 'yes' from. It's Sales and Politics 101: don't piss off the very people you're selling or need a vote from.
Statements like these are just completely stupid in that regard:
The real reason for the closure was the Federal Government backing down from lawsuits threatened and brought by special interest groups.
The preceding 12 years has seen no action by any of the involved agencies other than to write report after report of environmental assessments.
Again, it's an instantly dismissible, whining complaint, not a petition laying out a clear and cogent rationale for why Williamson Rock should be re-opened. Lot of smart folks down that way, surely someone can do better than that.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2017 - 09:41am PT
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healje,
I met you once at the Gordon ranch and you seemed like a nice guy.
We had a beer and talked for awhile.
You may still be that but you are ignorant of the facts of the WR closure.
This 'petition' is a 10 minute process and only helps to let USFW know people are still aware of their lack of action.
I've done much more for this cause over the past 12 years.
There's a word for people that critique when ignorant of facts but it's not very nice.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Done. Keep up the pressure. I miss that place.
BAd
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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You may still be that but you are ignorant of the facts of the WR closure.
One way or another I've been involved with the politics of a few of these situations both in climbing and outside of it. I don't need to know the specifics or the facts to understand those two statements and the 'petition' itself are entirely counterproductive. Again, it's not about 'the facts' of the WR closure - it's about whether you're serious about getting the place reopened or not - if you are, then that petition is just a stupid move.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2017 - 10:18am PT
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Dude,
Don't you have something better to do than bitch about my efforts to get a local crag reopened?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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It seems that over the years since Willy has been closed and it has been MANY years, the most vocal climbing critics against trying to get it reopened are those who don't live in the immediate area and who's home crags are JT, Yosemite or some other area far from Willy and they wouldn't be climbing there to begin with. The frustration is that it has been 12 years, thats a stinking long time. The Forest Service has dragged it's feet, the Sierra Club has spent a lot of money to make sure it stays closed as has the CBD. Locals are essentially powerless and these groups know it. Whether the petition does any good or not is not really the point in my opinion, the point is at least it gives us a voice. Believe me, the petition isn't going to hinder any process, at worse the powers that be will look at it and say BFD and sh#t can it and at best they will look at it and realize this is not going unnoticed. As much as I think Trump is a total d#@&%ebag this political climate may be the time to press hard for change and keep the pressure on not only the NFS but also the AF, I think it's time for the AF to use some of those lobbyists in Washington for our cause here in So Cal.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Whether the petition does any good or not is not really the point in my opinion, the point is at least it gives us a voice.
If that's the sort of voice you want then, hey, go for it.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Better than no voice. 12 years is long time not to have access to the best summer crag in So Cal. It's easy for everyone who doesn't live in the area to say just give it time let the system work. I worked in govt. for 30 years and I know what happens when you just let the govt system work, it doesn't.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I thought the petition was not particularly well written and made some over generalizations. Having said, I gladly signed it. pud took the effort to get this together in the hopes of driving this thing forward, which is a hell of a lot more than I've done, so I'm in no position to criticize. Hopefully, this the start of the process. If so, there will be plenty of opportunity to revise and restate.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Using a anonymous moniker - i.e 'pud' - makes it difficult to associate that with 'Johnathan Burnes' which I now realize is the case. Sorry, had no idea, but just objectively call them like I see them when it comes to this kind of politics. But it's a case where pent up climber frustrations and emotions work against their own agendas which is a big reason for the AF - policy wonks who can operate more objectively. Maybe run it by them and work on something AF could sign onto...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Joe is trying to help you pud, don't be a Trump about it.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2017 - 12:21pm PT
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Jon, Joe,
How 'bout you guys put together a more eloquent Statement of facts and start a petition?
One big reason WR remains closed is the apathy of the local climbing community. It takes time, effort, money and commitment to accomplish what is needed here.
I can take the criticism but, would respect a real effort by those critics much more.
Edit:
The passion I see in the comment section of the petition signers is reward enough for me. I can only hope these comments are included when this petition makes it to the USFW offices. I will place a follow up call to make sure it does.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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I signed because something is better than nothing and overcoming the inertia of doing nothing is important. That said, I think it would get more respect if it acknowledged the substance of the original closure and made a rational argument for why it does not apply and show flexibility to find a compromise if there is in fact a demonstrable impact on a frog population in that region.
One could make a strong case that changing local climate with less precipitation, coupled with devastating local fire, has pushed out the frogs from what was at best a tenuous foothold in a biological island isolated from a sustainable population in an area with a compatible environment.
A compromise position might be to (1) identify examples where human impact in the immediate area has a causal link to declining frog populations (e.g. from denuding vegetation or compacting soil that removes micro-habitats), and if this is demonstrable in this or other places, then there can be a cooperative plan to protect the specific micro-habitats. For example, enlist climbers to build fences and do trail work to protect the critical areas. It might be more complicated if the method of impact is chemical contamination of the water, such as from sunscreen, lotions, soaps, perfumes. I haven't researched this at all to know if there have been studies identifying mechanisms like these.
In any case, a more open approach like this will garner more support, rather than being perceived by non-climbers as just another ignorant selfish user community that wants to have their own fun while ignoring the damage they cause, like those off-road yahoos driving their vehicles over desert vegetation.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2017 - 12:29pm PT
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An approach like this will garner more support, rather than being perceived by non-climbers as just another ignorant selfish user community that wants to have their own fun while ignoring the damage they cause, like those off-road yahoos driving their vehicles over desert vegetation.
Please read the comment section of signers. I doubt anyone would perceive these folks as you describe.
I think what some here may not understand is that I have sat in offices on more than one occasion with representatives from all the agencies involved.
They are well aware of, and admit, their decisions were forced by the lawsuits referred to.
Troy tried dealing with these agencies with kid gloves in the beginning and it backfired.
Frank and open discussion is what is needed from all interested parties.
We can be both assertive and persistent while still being open to the concerns of others and looking for solutions that satisfy as many communities of interest as possible.
Agreed.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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I agree that the more comments that create a more nuanced perspective of the climbing community will be a good thing that enriches the quality of the petition. You get major kudos for creating momentum for other people to pile onto. It's always easier to point out what's wrong with something than to take a stand and do something.
My feedback to you was trying to think about it from the perspective of someone with a vested interest in not making any special efforts to change the status quo. It is harder to get a friendly ear and respect from someone outside of our "special interest group" (climbers) if we don't show a friendly ear and respect to other special interest groups. We can be both assertive and persistent while still being open to the concerns of others and looking for solutions that satisfy as many communities of interest as possible.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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we should have a protest like standing rock. except we show up with AR10s
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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The Forest Supervisor of the Angeles has adopted a money savings via area closure policy.
It started with broken glass and soiled diapers left at streamside picnic grounds, easier to just lock them out than clean that up again... but now any area closure is a management policy advantage.
I took a forest management grad course from the manager of one of the largest forests in the country.
He said any impact related dispute was not winnable by anyone but him. he was correct. for any study privately funded that produced a given opinion, he could produce ten studies to the contrary.. he was the forest manager, he said he could produce a ten inch stack of studies to anyone else's half inch thick report...
If the supervisor does not want the perceived or real liability of climbers in her area, then she will succeed to keep the area closed. reality.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2017 - 09:37pm PT
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It's not up to the Supervisor at the ANF.
The Fish and Wildlife Service could open WR tomorrow if they were willing to fight the lawsuits brought by those wishing to keep it closed.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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and you think the Forest Supervisor has not weighed in with Wildlife??
really?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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What sort of outreach has there been to educate the groups that bring the lawsuits? If there is no substance to their lawsuits, then a rational discussion and examination of facts can change that dynamic. If there is a substance to their lawsuits, then we can work with them to develop a strategy to address that substance without shutting down the area.
I am not well-versed in the history of the conflict or the parties involved, but it seems more effective to work directly with the objecting parties unless they live in a post-fact haze.
This is where some basic diplomacy and willingness to see things from different perspectives and compromise comes into play.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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What sort of outreach has there been to educate the groups that bring the lawsuits?
Outreach to the CBD? BwaHaHaHa! That's some pie in the sky crazy talk!
There's no scientific basis to this BS, it's just lawyers being lawyers.
They gots legal cred but that don't make it right.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I think there are significant distinctions between the year-round raptor closure at Summit Rock and this closure. The Summit Rock closure was a really overt pretext and proxy solution for other difficult-to-manage issues the county was dealing with there. There was also no sound science behind that closure.
I've been following the WR closure for as long as it's been posted about here on ST and I don't believe there is any parallel to the SR closure rationale other than the WR closure does probably provide local land managers some coincidental oversight and management relief. But are the root biological concerns simply a cover, ruse or pretext for closing WR because of pernicious local management issues like SR? Not at all.
Unfortunately in this case climbers and WR access are roadkill in a much larger environmental battle playing out not only in the Sierras but across the country and worldwide. The principal and larger issue is global amphibian decline and it's arguably the case the MYLF has seen more precipitous declines than many other species. The sad, if not ironic, aspect of the whole affair is their decline is mostly due to the introduction of non-native trout for another recreation constituency - fishing.
That all said, any approach to reopening WR that doesn't acknowledge the reality of the MYLF decline and the attempts to protect what remains of the species is utterly doomed to failure. And looking at current activity on the issue I see that the AF is clearly still actively engaged as are the CBD, USFW, USFS and other non-governmental groups.
Look, I know it's frustrating and heartbreaking being caught up in and losing WR access to the much larger battle that's being waged - doubly so given climbing has had no role whatsoever in the frog's decline - but there is little to be done about that other than 'endeavor to persevere' and work with the AF on the matter. Interjecting an emotional complaint into the mix isn't going to help AF's efforts . And to be honest, it doesn't sound like the land managers are particularly opposed to considering reopening climbing at WR, but rather the issue for them is more a matter of time, money and the formal process they have to go through to make that happen.
[ P.S. I agree with Reilly, there's little point in reaching out to the CBD. That's going to be about as productive as engaging the Audubon Society over raptor closures. And in this case the WR closure doesn't even hit the CBD's radar - climbing and all recreational access is more a local/state/federal implementation detail to them which is not really within their scope other than in a very broad brush way. Better to engage goups with allied interests like the PCT folks. ]
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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There's no scientific basis to this BS, it's just lawyers being lawyers.
Reilly, there is complete and utterly settled 'science' on the reality of amphibian decline and the MYLF in particular. It's just more counterproductive alt.right leg-humping to suggest otherwise. How they go about protecting the what remains of the MYLF population is more a matter of policy and management rather than science per se.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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This is in Angeles National Forest that belongs to all of us! Only those climbers, hikers, Willy-ing to do the walk down to the Rock will ever even know the joy of the area in the cool of a long hot summer down in LA. Hope it reopens one day, sooner then later!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Healy, it's not a political viewpoint to call bs on the 'science'. There's no way that they could have significant data correlating climbers' presence as a threat to the frogs. No way. In fact, if the Forest Circus tried a little outreach I have little doubt that climbers would happily assist in any manner to help maintain the habitat by staying away from the stream, except to cross it, which a minimal bridge would remove any possible impact.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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There was a separate thread to which Ed had contributed quite a bit, including attaching copies of the app. ct. ruling, etc. My reading of that decision was not that the area was closed based upon the finding re the frogs, but because, procedurally, the Forest Service did not issue a management plan within the prescribed period following that review. Perhaps looking sketchy is more familiar with this issue. In other words (and I'm the first to admit that I could have gotten the wrong take away from reading that decision) is that resolving the issue did not involve contradicting the frog reports but, rather, working with the FS to implement an acceptable plan. If so, you've got problems since it appears that they've more than demonstrated their lack of interest in resolving this issue. As Ed suggested, it's far easier for them to deny access than regulate it.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2017 - 09:40am PT
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Nice theories.
Here are the facts.
The area was closed because Jody Norian, the acting Supervisor at the time, was threatened to be held personally liable if she did not cooperate with Caltrans and restrict access.
Jody Norian told me this directly in 2005.
This entire issue has been back room dealings and CYA attitudes from the agencies involved.
This is not about protecting animals, conservancy or any noble cause.
This closure is about a particular group getting what they want by suing the federal government.
The lawyers of these parties knew it would be mired in red tape for many years. It's what they do.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Healy, it's not a political viewpoint to call bs on the 'science'. There's no way that they could have significant data correlating climbers' presence as a threat to the frogs.
I already stated that climbers and climbing have nothing to do with the frog or the frog's demise; that WR access is just incidental roadkill from machinations operating on a much larger stage. The closure isn't a matter of science, but rather of policy and management and the critical habitat designation impacts thousands of square mile of the Sierras with many sites and different recreational user groups impacted - it's again a much bigger affair than just climbers or WR.
The area was closed because Jody Norian, the acting Supervisor at the time, was threatened to be held personally liable if she did not cooperate with Caltrans and restrict access. Jody Norian told me this directly in 2005.
Regardless of what they told you, no one in a state or federal management role can be personally sued for doing their job as a land manager, only their agency.
With regard to the assertion that it's just easier for land managers to do nothing about the closure - that's simply wrong. They're re-routing the PCT and that's a much bigger constituency than climbers - the main deal (if you read the links I posted) is that there is an ongoing process of doing EIS's and coming up with a plan for recreational use within the Sierras. That takes time, money and resources with the latter two in short supply. But it's clear to everyone involved that all recreational use within the entire designated critical habitat area needs to be addressed sooner than later at this point (sooner in this context may still be more like a 2020 timeframe, however).
Pretty much the only way forward is collaborating with the AF, they're on top of the issue and there's little to no point in attempting any other path or course of action.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2017 - 10:13am PT
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Regardless of what they told you, no one in a state or federal management role can be personally sued for doing their job as a land manager, only their agency.
Jody Norian was genuinely afraid that what she was told was truth. She was threatened with being held personally and financially responsible if she did not cooperate. Whether or not this could happen, she was threatened.
This clearly illustrates the methods used by the agencies involved to protect their individual interests.
Pretty much the only way forward is collaborating with the AF, they're on top of the issue and there's little to no point in attempting any other path or course of action.
The ANF answers to the USFWS.
They are the ones that hold the keys.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Access Fund (AF): Incremental progress was made in the summer of 2014 when the US Forest Service initiated a process for evaluating alternatives for opening the climbing area. After initial project scoping, the Forest Service postponed the project citing lack of funding. In the spring of 2016 the Forest Service set aside $250,000 dollars to complete the environmental review and is hopeful to start the assessment in 2017. Access Fund is awaiting a management planning decision that may consider limited climbing. The final planning decision could take several more years due to the environmental review process that still needs to be conducted.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2017 - 10:18am PT
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^^^
None of this will happen without approval from the USFWS.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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The ANF answers to the USFWS.
They are the ones that hold the keys.
I don't know where you got that idea--but it's completely wrong. They aren't even in the same agency. USFS is Agriculture and USFW is Interior. USFS does not "answer" to Fish and Wildlife in any way--they are merely a cooperating agency.
Curt
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2017 - 10:32am PT
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Actually curt you are wrong.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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The bottom line is it's a big playing field across numerous state and federal agencies, many non-governmental entities, and encompasses way more than just WR and climbing. When you add it all up it means there's little point in doing anything other than supporting and contributing to AF's efforts in the matter.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Actually curt you are wrong.
Not that you're interested in actually learning anything, but all you need to do is look and see which agency has primary responsibility for the environmental review that's being done.
Curt
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2017 - 11:03am PT
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Curt,
Your sarcasm is disrespectful. You come across as a jerk.
I won't waste my time educating you.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Curt,
Your sarcasm is disrespectful. You come across as a jerk.
I won't waste my time educating you.
I'm not sure how I'm a jerk for trying to explain to you how these things work. You don't seem interested though. So, please feel free to carry on.
Curt
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2017 - 12:58pm PT
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Critics aside,
The value of this petition is to keep the pressure on the agencies involved.
There will be meetings between now and 12/31/18 hosted by the ANF for public input.
The current Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) is not due to be completed until 8/18. Nothing will be done to expedite this process (Although possible).
The ANF is currently coordinating meetings with the CBD, Access Fund and FoWR and other interested parties.(As noted up-thread) This is at least a step in the right direction.
Jose Enriquiz is the ANF point man on this issue and can answer any questions @ (626) 574-1613.
The USFWS does in fact have the final word on opening WR to recreation but will only do so once all parties are satisfied with the assessment and it's proposed mitigating actions.
This arbitrary date could be 2-10 years from now, or maybe never.
The best thing to do is keep the pressure on these agencies until they have to act.
The current status is, more of the same.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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It's quite common for an agency with primary management responsibility to defer other agencies on matters outside their normal operating domain - e.g. a Parks agency deferring to Fish & Wildlife on biological matters or to whatever agency is covering archeology / heritage concerns.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2017 - 07:27am PT
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bump for the cause
I'd like to keep this front page for at least a couple of weeks to get as many signatures as possible.
currently closing in on 200
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2017 - 11:17am PT
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Call Jose.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Apr 11, 2017 - 04:22pm PT
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The Forest Supervisor can choose who does the study, essentially, what result is desired by the Forest Supervisor is the result.. That is the reality... They had a study done by those who had certain leanings if you will.. it could have been a phone call to Wildlife, "We need a study done to show xyz, who is most likely to give that result?? Ok, please have them come do the study and all our resources are open to them while they are in the Forest."
You can go fund a contrary study, if you can even get a permit to do so, but the Forest Superviser will have six more studies to the contrary.. you cannot win if the will of the Forest Supervisor is to the contrary.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2017 - 11:09am PT
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^^^ Believe it when it happens. ^^^
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Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
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Apr 18, 2017 - 11:39am PT
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^^^I don't disagree^^^
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Nutty
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Jul 26, 2018 - 04:44pm PT
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Notice for Draft EIS 45-day Comment Period
Williamson Rock/Pacific Crest National Scenic Trail Project
The Draft Environmental Impact Statement (Draft EIS) for the Williamson Rock Project is now available for public review and comment. The project is intended to better manage the recreation use and balance of the needs for resource protection.
The Draft EIS analyzes the environmental consequences of four alternatives. Documents are available on the Angeles National Forest’s project webpage at: https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=43405
Public meetings will be held on August 9, and 11, 2018.
This project is subject to 36 CFR 218 for objection/administrative review. Only those who submit project-specific written comments during a public comment period are eligible to file an objection. Individuals or representatives of an entity submitting comments must sign them or verify identity upon request.
Comment due date is September 10, 2018
https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/www/nepa/97680_FSPLT3_4395481.pdf
https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/www/nepa/97680_FSPLT3_4395482.pdf
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 26, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
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Sounds like those of you who have children who climb, maybe it will be open in their life time. The Heritage Foundation's comments on the Trump Administration Budget cuts:
"Law enforcement,, which is small potatoes in the Forest Service, is the only program area that sees a budget increase (2%) over last year. Most everything else (e.g., fish and wildlife, livestock, minerals) faces an 11% cut. Forest planning will slow even further, hard as that is to believe, as planning not only faces the same 11% cut, but has to fight with inventory and monitoring functions (which spend almost four times as much money) for its piece of a smaller pie. Insofar as planning makes policy, don’t expect any new ones anytime soon.
Hazardous fuels treatment faces a 7% cut and a sharper focus to treat “priority areas near communities that reduce risk to communities and firefighters and increase resilience of forests to catastrophic fire.” It’ll be interesting to see if managers get the message to stop wasting money treating fuels in the backcountry.
Whatever rebuilding the nation’s infrastructure may mean to Trump, the Forest Service isn’t going to have a seat at that table. The budget calls for a 73% cut in capital improvement and maintenance, including zeroing out the Legacy Roads and Trails program that pays for replacing fish-blocking culverts. Trail maintenance will drop from $77 million to $12 million, so visitors should be prepared to scramble over downed trees and be proficient with maps and GPS as disappearing trail signs are not replaced."
So it is not the best time for them to spend money on re-opening a closed area. I'm not saying that in a local area, they can't and won't do something like this, only pointing out it is not the best of times overall.
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