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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 24, 2017 - 07:29pm PT
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Last year friend of mine gave me a brand new in the box koflach artic expedition boot for my BD so I decided to take advantage of the great snow this year in CA and enjoy the Sierras. Two day before the trip I open the box and saw the liner's sole are falling apart as I am pulling them out of the boots.
Not sure what type of material these guys used at the factory but I wasn't happy to see liners falling apart.Now, I own several boots including 3 koflach, Millet Everest summit and la sportiva but koflach fits me the best. Climbed several peaks in Himalayas and in Asia with koflach artic and love how flexible and comfy these boots are so I contacted Scarpa koflach warranty office in Bolder Colorado and explained the situations ,send them few pictures and after few emails going back and fort ,Someone from RMA dept send me the RMA # and asked me to ship them to bolder.
Done, there they are headed your way and after two weeks, I contacted them to see what is going on and the person handling the RMA send me email telling me that boots failed because they were old. WTF
Old ? I haven't even removed the tags from the boot yet and the liners are falling apart so he said, best we can so, SELL YOU NEW LINERS AT DISCOUNT PRICES !
What a scam and warranty BS these guys are offering. I mean ,I spend years doing QA and QC and this issue is manufacturing problem choosing bad material from the beginning .I did more research on google and found out other climbers ran in to same problems so this isn't anything new.
Just be aware of the Scarpa koflach warranty in Bolder CO.
Next stop,EverestNews.com,RC.com and other internet sites
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Mar 24, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
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I hear you! My Koflach boots just disintegrated sitting on a closet shelf. First the inner boots rotted then the plastic shell cracked and I wasn't even wearing them! Not a good endorsement for their products.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 24, 2017 - 09:57pm PT
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Just see modern know how making space suits by cavemen masquerading as the future ......
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Mar 24, 2017 - 10:06pm PT
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how many years ago were they manufactured?
while the following may not be the case: if they've sat in someone's closet for ten years, just because the tags are still on doesn't mean anything...
shitty deal regardless, but mesuspects there is more to the story than what you are stating.
if you can sort out and let us know the year they were manufactured, it would clear up a lot and if it was recent, it will add credibility to your complaint.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Mar 24, 2017 - 10:14pm PT
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They are only...
... like 20 years old! Sucka...
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Mar 24, 2017 - 10:14pm PT
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Plastics has a generally very limited lifespam, some more then others. There will be very few antiques from this period in the future, because plastic decays at such a rapid rate. From the looks of the box, they be 20 years old thereabouts at least? I would say you are SOL, and its truly not the manufacturers problem after that time period, sorry to say.
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grover
climber
Castlegar BC
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Mar 24, 2017 - 10:38pm PT
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Same thing happened to a friend of mine.
Although his gift was a condom, unused of course, just like your boots.
9 months later, he wished he'd ponied up and spent that 1.50$.
Lesson learned.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Mar 24, 2017 - 10:59pm PT
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genuinely non-as#@&%e question:
when were koflach boots last manufactured? I have to believe eight years ago, minimum
I mean, I climbed Denali in 2008 and maybe 1 out of 30 wore the yellow Koflahcs
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 25, 2017 - 06:28am PT
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I had a friend give me a pair of expensive boots for hiking which she had not worn(originally bought online at steep discount, she bought two sizes wanting to get a good fit and then didn't return the ones she gave me).
I needed money more than boots, so sold them via Ebay. They seemed FINE to me. A week later the buyer sent me a scathing letter. Her daughter wore the boots on a break-in easy hike and they almost immediately began to "break down." She really was angry and ws accusing me of all sorts of things.
I honestly thought she was at LEAST exaggerating, since the boots looked just fine to me, and I had tried them on and not noticed anything LIKE what she was saying. But I had her send them back and I would refund. I had no other choice, really, and I thought she would either come up with some
"Forget it" story, or just disappear - I thought she was trying to get money and keep the boots - but, when the boots arrived I was shocked to see the soles had crumbled like decomposing something.
I had no choice but to completely refund and include a refund f the money she had paid to send them back to me. So, my attempt to make a little money ended up costing me money in the end. But I learned a lesson.
The boots had sat in my friend's closet I don't know how long, and as she got them on a discount - how long had they been in the "markdown machine" of lot-selling, before she even purchased them?
I think the brands are seeing quite a bit of people buying from online discounters and expecting retail-like service. It's not really fair to ask that of a company, IMO. And, lesson learned, don't gift friends odd-lot merchandise and not explain that is the case.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Mar 25, 2017 - 06:41am PT
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Dip the boots and any soured milk on hand in the fountain of youth for best results.
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Mar 25, 2017 - 07:29am PT
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try a new product. its your feet, who cares about cost!
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Mar 25, 2017 - 09:38am PT
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worked selling those in a mt shop for a long time, even though they are "new" to you they are 10 yrs old-no telling how they were stored, that plastic just goes bad-i'd take em up on their offer, or if you have time keep bitching and you MAY get a free pair of liners.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Mar 25, 2017 - 08:40pm PT
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Mar 26, 2017 - 04:47am PT
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How old are they?
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Mar 26, 2017 - 05:25am PT
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yeah, without more info it's looking like maybe it's time to change the thread title to something like:
I tried to scam Koflach into warrantying some old boots that still have new tags (because I didn't know plastic products degrade whether they are used or not)
it's still too long, so still needs some work... but you get the idea.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Mar 26, 2017 - 07:00am PT
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That box looks ancient. I don't see this as a "scam". Most companies have a reasonable return/warranty policy if you have an original receipt (which you don't) and it's within a reasonable amount of time (which it isn't.)
It does, however , suck that those linings seem to be made of total crap. Not a great endorsement for return customers for Kolflach.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 26, 2017 - 08:03am PT
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I wouldn't drive on 10 year old tires either.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Mar 26, 2017 - 10:34am PT
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Replace those liners with warmer and more modern thermofit ones.
Voila.
Koflach used to be the lightest shell for a plastic double boot. Maybe they still are?
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John M
climber
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Mar 26, 2017 - 10:48am PT
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Replace those liners with warmer and more modern thermofit ones.
For something that is to be used in extreme conditions, I would want to know how well that plastic holds up before I would use it, even with a replaced liner. Whats the history of the boot? Not just that particular pair, but that boot overall. Do they last? Some plastics can hold up, but many don't, and having a boot failure high up in the cold could be a very bad thing. Like Happie explains, plastic boots can have a catastrophic failure where they just completely fall apart.
There is a thread on this forum where some experts describe what is in plastics that breaks down. It was on ski boots. I haven't searched for it. But it explained the different chemicals that break down. Some plastics have more of that chemical, meaning that they stay elastic longer. Others have less and those get brittle and break easily.
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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Mar 26, 2017 - 10:57am PT
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My experience with "lightly used/almost new" older plastic boots led to a ruined day. I wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole now.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 26, 2017 - 11:14am PT
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I tried skiing on a pair of really old ski boots, shattered them when I buckled them up. Supposedly the plastic on bindings can fail too. I have broken plastic on bindings but it has never resulted in a failure of the binding. Definitely something to think about when you buy on Ebay, there is a lot of "new with tags" stuff that is very old.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 26, 2017 - 11:22am PT
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This shows modern people don't belong up there.
In the old daze dudes could walk up there in sandals and a robe.
Now-a-daze dudes need a space suit to get up there and can't even breathe.
Stoopid modern people .....
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Mar 26, 2017 - 11:33am PT
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Plastic has a limited life span. Had a similar experience. Makes sense to me.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2017 - 05:06pm PT
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As I said, I have several pairs of the same exact model and and problem with others but these were new and no one is trying to jump on Koflach for $120 for set of liners. I am pissed off about their warranty principal . If they don't want to cover liners under their warranty then all they had to do look at my photos back when they issued RMA and save me money and not to ship them to Colorado so they sit on their ass and waste time.
Environmental earth protectors always say "plastic last for 10000 years "
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Mar 27, 2017 - 05:42pm PT
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Environmental earth protectors always say "plastic last for 10000 years "
Now, in this context of the whole thread, that is the ultimate statement. Well done!
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Mar 27, 2017 - 06:06pm PT
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ahhh... i see it's the ole fact free double down, eh?
still, no answer as to when these were manufactured.
no answer as to when your friend actually bought these, and whether there is a receipt.
and so no answer as to whether these were purchased at full retail in the last year.
really no pertinent answers at all.
but koflach's warranty is apparently still a "scam"...
and because plastic molecules "last for 10000 years" the products that are composed of those molecules shouldn't disintegrate...
so far the only entity you are successfully warning the public [or at least myself] of is majid...
if that's not your intention, be clear on when these were purchased, from whom, and for what percentage of retail [ie whether these were discounted due to their having sat on a shelf for years on end]...
or if not, do yourself the favour and delete this thread...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 27, 2017 - 06:24pm PT
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Scarpa did you dirty, and your old boots fell apart as they should have.
Both can be true. Both ARE true.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Mar 27, 2017 - 10:52pm PT
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If the liners are bad I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the outers are OK as well. If you are going to use them, take them on some practice climbs before you head out on that big expedition goal for the season.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Mar 28, 2017 - 07:17am PT
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actually not as unusual as you think. I have seen old ski boots, running shoes etc. come out out of the box new (but very old) and you could break them apart like blue cheese.
As far as the warranty, they are usually reserved for the original owner. Some companies don't care, some do. Many have had to get tighter because of ebay, craigslist, etc. because people buy used stuff with the intent of filing a warranty claim
I'm surprised they didn't offer you some sort of discount on something new.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 28, 2017 - 07:49am PT
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The old REI boot policy (well, anything really) was sweet.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Mar 28, 2017 - 09:05am PT
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Reminds me of a trip with a friend who pulled his old ski equipment out of the basement after 20 years of not using it, and came along skiing.
Old plastic boots and skinny skis from the 70's. He skied the morning and then on the way back from lunch, literally lost the entire toe of one boot in the parking lot. He had to rent boots to be able to continue to ski.
It was funny, but also sad, when he suddenly realized the toe was missing. I found it later on my way back to the car. Beware of old plastic gear!
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