The Up-Hill battle to keep OUR PUBLIC Lands PUBLIC

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Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 5, 2017 - 04:47pm PT
Heidi & I attended a fun Public-Lands Rally at the Idaho Capital on Saturday. The rain stopped around 10:45 as the large crowd gathered.


The first photo is a view of part of the large crowd, from the Capital steps, before the inspiring, fun, & blessedly short, speeches started at 11:00. Crowd size was estimated as 2,800 to 3,000 hikers, anglers, hunters, river-runners, backcountry runners & bikers, ATV = OHV riders, & even a few climbers.


The inspiring speakers included a mountain biker, the owner of a hunting clothing company, a representative of Idaho’s Indian tribes, a backcountry runner, & a dirt-biker. The crowd was encouraged to yell "HELL YES!" as various good points were made.


I was excited to see the diversity of public land users represented, since many of us believe that traditional conservationist groups don’t have the political clout to win this fight to keep OUR PUBLIC lands PUBLIC.

After the speeches, we were encouraged to peacefully occupy OUR capital building. Heidi got to practice her selfie skills from the 2nd floor balcony.

A good time was had by all & I hope some of our legislators & congressmen read the newspaper stories or watch the TV news. Damn few of them were there.

Here's links to such:

http://www.postregister.com/articles/featured-news-daily-email-outdoors-west/2017/03/04/public-lands-rally-draws-big-crowd

channel 7 ktvb estimates nearly 3000 at rally

http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/nearly-3000-rally-for-public-lands-at-idaho-capitol/419826645

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 5, 2017 - 04:58pm PT
Taking it to the streets for a good cause, Fritz.
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Mar 5, 2017 - 06:05pm PT
Thanks for marching, and sharing, Fritz.

We face a tough battle, but I feel public lands should remain public.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Mar 5, 2017 - 06:08pm PT
Thanks and congratulations for standing up for the cause.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2017 - 09:24pm PT
Here's a very short video that Heidi took of the public lands rally, that shows some of the crowd energy.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 6, 2017 - 08:39am PT
Thank ya kindly Fritz!

In the meantime the twitter storms are forming out East and spraying down misinformation to the west whilst these dastardly deeds play out.
Hardly Visible

Social climber
Llatikcuf WA
Mar 6, 2017 - 08:58am PT
Good for you,
who would of ever thought we would be walking arm in arm with the atv and bullet crowd, but like you I'm with anybody who wants to keep public lands public at this point.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 6, 2017 - 09:03am PT
RESPECT !!

Thank you for taking the time to stand up and help support this noble effort.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 6, 2017 - 10:22am PT
Living up to Lincoln's message (also mercifully short).

OF, BY, & FOR THE PEEPS!
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Mar 6, 2017 - 11:26am PT
Idaho is the perfect place to work this out since 80% of the land in Idaho is public land.

I can't tell if the Republican/Trump agenda is to dump federal lands into private hands or move it to State control.


Moving it to private hands is insane and very short thinking. Actually, treasonous.

Moving it to State control has an appeal to the more republic philosophy. A lot of good could come if good people are in charge at the state level. But in the modern mobile world, land users are just as likely to come from out of state making the current federal model just fine.

Federal land management needs an overhaul with much of it still running on 19th century thinking. I'm talking about franchising the land for grazing, timber, mining and water rights. This land belongs to you and me and for the last few decades I think those franchise holders have not paid their fair share. Recreational franchising is another potential area of income to the government to fund proper land managment.
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Mar 6, 2017 - 12:37pm PT
Heartening to hear so many diverse user groups there.

There may be small differences between user groups. But those pale in comparison to the differences between the outdoor rec groups and the real estate developers and extractive industries.

If we're going to prevail in these fights, the outdoor groups need to work better together and set aside those differences, or compromise, in the interest of not losing the bigger fight.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Mar 6, 2017 - 01:23pm PT
Over the last couple decades the federal land grab, especially under Obama,has been nothing short of greedy in the extreme.And yet we're expected to believe that it is an "uphill battle". A sort of cry for justice.

Still the "sagebrush Left" depicted in the photos have a sort of pitiful , beleaugered look about them-- hard to understand after having largely gotten their way over recent years-- it may now be their turn to get it in the shorts. No wonder everyone there looks so " throat clearingly " concerned.

This all could be due to the crowd at the demonstration unquestionably sporting a " watered-down" aspect in their various demeanors. This is squarely because they are libtards who do not reside in Libtardia. They are sadly alienated; out of place, mostly older enviro-boomers bemoaning the possibility their beloved lands will fall away from the cloying grasp of Washingtonian bureaucrats and into an uncertain future with state bureaucrats.

What ? No rampaging anarchists ?
No bused-in rent-a-mobs.

Somebody has been shirking their Alinsky readin' of late.





10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 6, 2017 - 01:31pm PT
Moving it to State control has an appeal to the more republic philosophy. A lot of good could come if good people are in charge at the state level.

The problem with moving public lands to state control, is that you have states like Utah. . . . .
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2017 - 04:33pm PT
This below link was posted on Backcountry Hunters & Angler's Facebook page today. They are doing a great job of keeping OUR PUBLIC Lands PUBLIC in red states like Idaho. I suspect most of their members would be glad to argue that they are not fuking liberals.

The fight is not a liberal vs conservative fight, or a Republican vs Democrat fight. It is a pro-access vs no-access fight.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/322537-gop-chairman-seeks-50m-to-transfer-federal-land#.WL3wQBTSQC8.facebook

Here's the article in photos.

GOP CHAIRMAN SEEKS $50,000,000 TO TRANSFER FEDERAL LANDS

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Mar 7, 2017 - 04:56pm PT
Still the "sagebrush Left" depicted in the photos have a sort of pitiful , beleaugered look about them-- hard to understand after having largely gotten their way over recent years-- it may now be their turn to get it in the shorts. No wonder everyone there looks so " throat clearingly " concerned.
What a pitiful, misinformed, and, frankly, stupid response. So this is about the left getting a comeupance, not about protecting public lands? Is that really a greater priority for you? Is that really a greater priority for the right? They'd rather see the other side unhappy, even if it is a loss or them as well?

BTW, with a Republican 'party of no' in the House and Senate for the past two administrations the left has definitely NOT gotten their way.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2017 - 06:33pm PT
Fat Dad! Good on you!

It's worth mentioning again:

The fight is not a liberal vs conservative fight, or a Republican vs Democrat fight. It is a pro-access vs no-access fight.

Here's a shot I took at the Boise Idaho Public Lands Rally last weekend. Lots of folks wearing camo in the picture.



And a sign at the rally addressing the subject of "paid protesters"

WBraun

climber
Mar 7, 2017 - 06:43pm PT
So boring, no clash with police, no flash bangs, no blood, no arrest, no straight jacket, just talking.

Hahaha ..... just yanking yer chain ...... :-)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 7, 2017 - 08:14pm PT
And no Pussy hats...?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2017 - 12:29pm PT
For those here that think OUR Federal PUBLIC lands would be better managed by the individual states, I must strongly disagree. State mismanagement is just the next step to converting those lands to private hands.

The Idaho State Senate is already planning on it per this email I received today from Backcountry Hunters & Anglers.

Meanwhile, in Idaho, the state legislature has introduced a bill (S 1065) to limit any new state lands and prioritize the sale of “excess state lands.” Take a minute to remind your elected officials where you stand on public lands – tell them to drop the unpopular land transfer agenda and put their energy toward real public land management solutions, such as HCR 20, which failed on Monday, but would have directed the Idaho Department of State Lands to unlock landlocked state lands – lands that Idahoans currently own but cannot access.


Thank you again for joining the growing force of public land owners who are stepping up and making our voices heard.

Tim Brass


http://www.backcountryhunters.org/
If you want to join in this fight, one positive step would be to join Backcountry Hunters & Anglers.

ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Mar 8, 2017 - 12:46pm PT
What's interesting about this is that there appears to be virtually no public support or interest in transferring public lands to states or to private industry (which is basically the same thing in most states). It seems to be purely pushed by politicians bought off by industry.

Anyone even remotely interested in outdoor activity should oppose land transfers. Federal land was bought with U.S. blood and treasure (rightly or wrongly) and it belongs to all of us.
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Mar 8, 2017 - 04:40pm PT
OTE, I occasionally look at a Lake Powell fishing forum which is heavily right wing and in my experience many on that forum strongly support state control of fed lands. There are strong supporters of the Bundy seiges. One member is from Mexican Hat and claimed to be a business owner who does not support the Bears Ears.

I feel it is important to keep fed lands as they are even if there are sometimes frustrations in the way they are managed. In the area of Comb Ridge on the southern end of the Bears Ears National Monument, last Fall the state of Utah sold about a four hundred acre parcel of land to a corporation whom I've read put up a locked gate on one of the popular access areas.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2017 - 07:12pm PT
the albatross! I'm hearing you bro, re your post:

I feel it is important to keep fed lands as they are even if there are sometimes frustrations in the way they are managed. In the area of Comb Ridge on the southern end of the Bears Ears National Monument, last Fall the state of Utah sold about a four hundred acre parcel of land to a corporation whom I've read put up a locked gate on one of the popular access areas.


I'm sorry your anglers group is not as enlightened about fighting for our public lands as the Backcountry Hunters & Anglers group is, but at least Utah's conservative representatives are having to listen to Backcountry Hunter's & Anglers. The Utah Rep who had introduced a bill to sell 3.3 million acres of "surplus" BLM lands said their pressure was the primary reason he withdrew the bill.

Heidi & I have made a week or 10 day trip to the general area of the Bear's Ear National Monument, nearly every spring for the last 16 years. The Utah state sale of scenic public lands on Comb Ridge is a slap in the face to all public lands users, and a stern warning of what might follow.

Once again, let me mention:

The fight is not a liberal vs conservative fight, or a Republican vs Democrat fight. It is a pro-access vs no-access fight.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2017 - 06:50pm PT

Some strong words opposing the transfer of OUR PUBLIC lands to state control.

Simply put, Idaho & other western states, cannot afford to manage these lands and this will inevitably lead to budgetary problems. Budgetary problems created a buyers market and thus emerges the risk that our public lands could be sold. The Wilderness Society reported that access to over 1.7 million acres or over 41% of all Idaho state land has been lost after they were sold to corporations and other private interests. Of course Idaho Department of Lands refutes this and they say its actually 33%, but either way – it is a lot of land!

Why is this such an important issue?
•The federal government is already succeeding at land management. ◦73% of Idahoans feel that one of the things that the federal government does well is managing our forests, parks, and public lands.

•Our state cannot afford to take control of this land. ◦Managing land is expensive. Our government would have to maintain thousands of miles of roads and foot the bill for multi-million dollar wildfires.
◦According to the Conservation Economics Institute, managing lands could cost taxpayers over $1 billion after 5 years, and more than $2 billion after 20 years.
◦Governor Butch Otter has opposed a land takeover for this reason. An Otter spokesman said that it would “blow a hole in the state’s budget.”
◦Attorney General Lawrence G. Wasden has said that previous attempts at land takeover violate the Idaho Constitution.

•The only way to balance the state budget would be selling huge areas of land to the highest bidder. ◦This is a bad outcome for the state and for Idahoans. We would lose access to rivers, forests, and mountains that we currently get to enjoy.
◦Greedy companies would harm Idaho’s land, ruining our clean air and water.
◦Selling off public lands could crush Idaho’s thriving outdoor recreation industry, which has become an essential part of our economy.


Idaho’s forests, rivers, and stunning mountain ranges are some of the most beautiful and untouched lands in the United States. They are one of Idaho’s greatest assets. Everyone should be able to experience Idaho’s backcountry, whether they are hunting, fishing, hiking, rafting, bird-watching, or simply enjoying the view. These recreational opportunities also have a profound impact on our economy, attracting over 77,000 jobs and $461 million in state and local tax revenue. Protecting our public lands is vital to our economy and the future of Idaho.
http://erpforidaho.com/public-lands-takeover-where-idaho-stands/?utm_source=sendinblue&utm_campaign=2017_Week_9&utm_medium=email
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 11, 2017 - 07:17pm PT
Over the last couple decades the federal land grab, especially under Obama,has been nothing short of greedy in the extreme.

Ward, I defy you to describe one acre of land that President Obama took from any source which the federal gov't did not already own.
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Mar 11, 2017 - 08:04pm PT
That is not the same thing as a "land grab," Jody.

Steve Bannon's attempts notwithstanding, words have meaning.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 11, 2017 - 08:05pm PT
can some please explain a savings account to our former state worker and troll maximus Jody?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 11, 2017 - 08:11pm PT
Jody, so you are saying that taking property FROM YOU is exactly as bad as restricting what you can do on shared property?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Mar 11, 2017 - 08:44pm PT
What exactly are you talking about? What access or use has been taken?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 12, 2017 - 05:30pm PT
Well, I don't have any property for them to take.

Really? You don't own a car??? You think having your car confiscated is EXACTLY as bad as restricting you to speed limits? Parking restrictions?
Chain requirements?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2017 - 05:42pm PT
I suspect Jody is referring to restrictions on OHV ATV access in the new National Monuments & that type of quibbling is fine, as long as he realizes who the enemy really is.

The enemy is corporate America & the 1% that has the money to buy state legislatures, Congress, & ultimately convert OUR PUBLIC lands to their estates, ranches, & mines.

And, The enemy of my enemy is my friend. So Jody! We're friends now!

As for the enemy, they aren't stupid, & articles like this one in The Wall Street Journal are just part of their tactics.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/utah-faces-down-the-rock-climbing-industrial-complex-1489187009

c wilmot

climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 05:48pm PT
Patagonia is corporate America...why doesn't yvon use a carrot rateher than a stick and bring some jobs back to the USA? It would be a win win. Jobs created, land preserved.

Somehow though I doubt Patagonia and other brands would be willing to stop producing oil based synthetic goods in third world countries

Many in Maine were against the monument as it removed a large chunk of land from being used in the manner it had for generations

Personally I am opposed to the new monuments because we are billions behind on maintenance in public lands already under federal control
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2017 - 09:18pm PT
C Wilmot, per your post. I am not a great supporter of National Monuments & National Parks, since they usually prohibit hunting & rock-hounding.

However, I prefer those minor restrictions to NO TRESPASSING signs on what used to be OUR public lands.

What do you want? Public or private lands?

If it is public land, minor public use restrictions & access questions, can be worked out, now or in the future.

If it is private, public use is at the discretion of the owner.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2017 - 05:24pm PT
Speaking of the tactics of those who are trying to steal OUR PUBLIC lands, I found this article today.

Busted: Right-wing “environmental research” group uses falsified data to justify state land grab

http://westernpriorities.org/2016/07/05/busted-right-wing-environmental-research-group-uses-falsified-data-to-justify-state-land-grab/

Last week, a well-known conservative think tank, Utah’s Sutherland Institute, released a report that claimed state parks are more efficiently managed and more popular than national parks across the West. The report, which was co-written with the right-wing Property and Environment Research Center (PERC), relied almost entirely on state park attendance data to draw its conclusions. The report got major coverage from the Deseret News, complete with a headline claiming “States manage public lands for recreation better than feds.”

There’s just one problem: Sutherland and PERC used erroneous numbers throughout their report.

The report cited statistics from the National Association of State Park Directors 2014 annual report (you can see the visitation data on page 19). When those numbers made it into the Sutherland report, however, they changed: PERC and Sutherland gave Oregon’s visitation data to New Mexico, Utah’s numbers to Oregon, and Washington’s to Utah. Washington received visitation data from Wisconsin—a state which wasn’t included in the Sutherland/PERC report.

The result of this four-state switcheroo gave Utah, which happens to be the focus of much of PERC’s research, a ten-fold increase in annual park attendance—35 million instead of 3.5 million

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2017 - 05:35pm PT
From Outdoor Life Magazine http://www.outdoorlife.com/public-land-roundup-malheur-convictions-rep-bishop-wants-50m-for-land-grab-and-rallies-in-boise#page-3

Boise Shows Up Big For Public Lands

Sportsmen from across the Gem State were among the estimated 2,600 Idahoans who showed up on the steps of the state capitol building in Boise with one message: Keep public lands in public hands.

“What I saw on Saturday was, first and foremost, Idahoans with a passion for all things outdoors, said Michael Gibson, of Trout Unlimited. “There were anglers, hunters, hikers, mountain bikers, horse packers and yes motorized enthusiasts all coming together for a common cause.”

Several state legislatures around the West are considering legislation intended to clear a path for states to take over national forests and other public lands. Some of those legislatures have also seen rafter-rocking rallies of sportsmen and other outdoors enthusiasts dead set against public land transfer.

Estimating the size of a crowd is always a bit of a guessing game. Organizers of the Boise event say their conservative-end estimate was 2,500. If so, that’s the high mark for pro-public land rallies so far in 2017. An estimated 1,500 folks rallied in Helena, Mont., and several hundred showed up in Santa Fe, New Mexico, all to support public land and protest efforts to take them away from the American people.

Isn't it time to start a rally for OUR PUBLIC lands in your state? Please?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2017 - 04:23pm PT
From High Country News

Sportsmen pull public-lands politics to the center
As threats intensify, sportsmen emerge as a persuasive voice

http://www.hcn.org/issues/49.6/sportsmen-step-up-for-public-lands

This is the last-half of the article:

Under the Trump administration, sportsmen could wield significant influence — and not just because many of them vote Republican. It helps to have legislators and leaders who can identify with sportsmen’s connection with public lands, notes Kindle: rising before dawn and hiking miles in the dark, being “purely quiet” while watching for wildlife. Trump’s son Donald Jr. is a “Life Member” of Backcountry Hunters & Anglers, and Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke also hunts. And Chaffetz is among the nearly 300 members of the House and Senate who make up the long-standing bipartisan Congressional Sportsmen’s Caucus.


George W. Bush’s administration heeded sportsmen when they spoke out against threats to environmental protection: In 2004, hunters and anglers met with Bush and encouraged the administration to abandon Clean Water Act revisions that would have threatened wetlands and streams valuable to fish and wildlife.

Hook-and-bullet groups may also serve as a bridge between traditionally left-leaning environmental groups and the current administration when it comes to public lands. Threats to public lands are “creating one of the biggest unlikely alliances in the world,” says David Allen, president and CEO of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. As Tawney points out, sportsmen tend to take a middle-ground approach, while the environmental community creates a more ambitious “goalpost” to work toward. This allows groups to make more centrist deals.

Now, sportsmen’s organizations intend to continue harnessing their members’ energy and passion on behalf of public lands. Their message to politicians is clear: “If you think you’re gonna come and tromp on the bedrock issue for all these people,” says Kindle, “you’re gonna have a hell of a fight on your hands.”
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2017 - 11:43am PT
I just received this email from Idahoans For PUBLIC Lands.


We did it.

After putting on the biggest public lands rally in the West, Idahoans prevented a single anti-public lands bill from being introduced in the State Capitol.

On a rainy day in March, more than 3,000 people rallied at the Idaho State Capitol to show our support for public lands.

For 80 days, Idaho lawmakers churned out more than 615 seperate pieces of legislation. And for the first time in four years, NOT ONE bill was indroduced advocating for the "disposal" of public lands.

Now that the State Legislature has adjourned for the year, its time to congratulate ourselves for sending a powerful message to Idaho politicians: Keep your hands off our public lands.

But our work is not over. There are still major threats from powerful politicians who are determined to give our public lands to special interests.

Together, we are going to stop them.

Truly an achievment, in this conservative state.


Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Apr 11, 2017 - 11:52am PT
Together, we are going to stop them.

Dig it!!

The radicals are creating groups of strange bedfellows in my parts and I am impressed with the humble nature it nurtures.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Apr 11, 2017 - 11:54am PT
Congrats to Fritz! (for now)
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Apr 11, 2017 - 12:10pm PT
I wish Californians had the same sense and drive to stand up for themselves that Idahoans do

Congratulations !
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Apr 11, 2017 - 12:14pm PT
you here stories of how the ranchers were swindled out of their land in Jackson Hole a 100 years ago. This current wave of legislation seems to have the same feel except now it the people's land getting swindled.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2017 - 01:53pm PT
Thanks folks!

It brought together some groups that enjoy their current public lands access, but who don't have a history of cooperation.

This time around, hikers, hunters, anglers, climbers, whitewater boaters, ATV/OHV, mountain bike, & horse riders, & backcountry skiers & runners

cooperated to make a large demonstration,

and one of the best legislatures that money can buy,

listened to us,

rather than the privatization lobbyists.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 11, 2017 - 05:56pm PT





Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2017 - 07:55am PT
Here's a link to an article in the LA Times on April 2, that talks about the Bundy's attitude towards stealing public lands & ends with some inspiring prose.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-bass-bundy-trials-20170402-story.html

It’s possible that in the Nevada trials, the Bundys will once again evade the law and win acquittal. But in the end, theirs is a lost cause. We regular peace-loving, rule-abiding citizens will not give up our public lands to anyone: not to armed desperadoes, not to contemporary robber barons, and not to the states, which can’t afford their upkeep.

These lands are our outdoor churches, our cathedrals — and keeping them that way is the real economic foundation of the West. Open spaces attract new, high-paying industries and yield billions of dollars in tourism and recreation. When we are young, we hunt, hike, fish, camp, backpack, paddle, horseback ride, walk, run, raft and bicycle on our shared lands, and when we are old we stare out at their undiminished beauty.

The great Wallace Stegner wrote in 1960 that it is the American wilderness that forms our national character, separate and distinct from that of other nations. That character, like the wilderness, is under pressure, weakening at the seams, as news reports tell us every day. In heated times like these I find myself much in need of going for a walk — a long walk, on my American land.

Rick Bass is writer in residence at Montana State University
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 16, 2017 - 08:08am PT

Utah tools want a shiny new coal mine in Grand Staircase Escalante...
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