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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 13, 2017 - 12:14pm PT
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A friend recently purchased some Fixe bolt hangers, and noted that the standard/rating had risen from 30kn to 40kn, and that the hangers were correspondingly thicker.
Looking on-line I was unable to find any listing of the UIAA standards for bolt hangers (or for anything else). Perhaps someone can post a link. However I did note on-line that Petzl hangers are rated at 25kn, substantially less than 40. A quick check of some biners showed numbers of 22, 23 and 29kn.
Have there been any hanger failures?
Have the UIAA standards been raised?
Is this just a marketing ploy by Fixe?
Perhaps this question has been raised before. If so, I will delete this thread, and have my name added to the ignominious "list".
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Jan 13, 2017 - 12:23pm PT
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I was searching on the net today for Fixe stainless glue-ins and at first could only find them in something called PLX HCR at 5.50 each instead of 3.30 which I paid a few months ago. Further googling turned this up: http://techrock.es/en/news/plx-hcr-anchors-2016
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jan 13, 2017 - 12:31pm PT
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one of the graphs at that link claims there will be almost no cost change compared to typical stainless.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2017 - 12:34pm PT
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Thanks, Jaaan.
I also noted that the cost of Fixe belay/rap stations has risen by 50% in the last 2 years. Unfortunately higher ratings and costs may cause some developers to cut corners, and in some cases may reduce safety rather than enhance it.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jan 13, 2017 - 01:21pm PT
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An engineer friend told me that the human body cannot withstand forces great than 23 KN.
Can anyone verify this?
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ScottW
Trad climber
CA
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Jan 13, 2017 - 01:59pm PT
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The naval flight surgeon's pocket reference to aircraft mishap investigation (sixth edition) provides some information concerning human tolerance limits. The Air Force also has the same information published in their aircraft crash documents. Tax payers paid for the research, so the information is easy to find if you do a web search for "Human tolerance limits".
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Jan 13, 2017 - 01:59pm PT
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The old Fixe SS (304 stainless steel) hangers were rated at 30kN.
The new Fixe "PLX" HCR (high corrosion resistance) hangers are rated to 40kN. The HCR stainless steel is significantly stronger than 304 SS.
Greg Barnes (ASCA) reported having the new "PLX" (possibly a brand name) tested and that it is Duplex 2304 stainless steel.
I prefer Fixe hangers because of their overkill strength, far above the UIAA minimum requirements.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Jan 13, 2017 - 03:45pm PT
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Fixe hangers are the exact same size and thickness, the higher rating is due to Duplex 2304 ("PLX") being stronger than 304. Of course some people may remember that 304 Fixe hangers from 15-20 years ago or so were labelled 40kN, guess they changed that at some point (maybe the 304 tested to 40kN in shear but not pull-out for roofs so they changed it).
What's interesting is that Petzl now has thicker, bigger hangers, but their rating is still 25kN. Standard Petzl hangers are 316L. They also have three bumps on the rock side of the hanger, similar to Fixe, so they look much beefier and have a larger profile against the rock (still smaller than Fixe though).
Fixe also has a new glue-in out, the Hely, which is PLX, and the interesting thing about it is that it uses a 3/8" or 10mm hole. Most glue-ins use 12mm, 1/2" (13mm), or larger holes. Bolt Products in Germany already makes 8mm solid-leg glue-ins that can use 3/8" or 10mm holes, made in various lengths and available in 316 or 304.
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JimT
climber
Munich
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Jan 14, 2017 - 12:35am PT
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The European standard EN959 and UIAA 123 both require 25kN, there has been no change.
Some companies mark the product with the actual strength, others with the required strength. or just give a nominal rating which is often the point at which testing is stopped, not failure. Many anchor components and particularly chainsets just get a nominal rating as itīs expensive and laborious to actually fully test them in production, Fixe 10mm SS rings are rated to 50kN as are ours but in reality they hold near enough 100kN.
Hangers are difficult once you get beyond a certain point, itīs finding a bolt strong enough to test them. I make 8mm rod hangers which get well around 68kN but the bolt that fits only gets 52kN. Since itīs all irrelevant at these forces we just give a nominal rating leaving plenty of tolerance.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jan 14, 2017 - 04:06am PT
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The HCR version of stainless steel is not only stronger than 304 and 316 but it is supposed to be much less susceptible to Stress Corrosion Cracking(SCC).
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Jan 14, 2017 - 07:28am PT
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@ Bruce:
Yes, there's a PDF attached to the link I posted which has some interesting charts relevant to what you say. It also shows their four categories of localisations and the type of material recommended for each. My interpretation is that anywhere away from tropical and coastal areas come into category 3 and therefore HCR is a bit over the top for these areas and that the other grades would be fine. Would you agree?
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Jan 14, 2017 - 09:20am PT
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If you want to support a good company buy a different brand.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2017 - 08:54pm PT
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Thanks to everyone for keeping this thread on track, and for their useful information and interesting comments.
@ Greg Barnes. My friend says that the new HCR hangers are "visibly thicker". They also look thicker in the photo which he sent me.
@ Jaaan. It's curious that your HCR glue-ins have increased by 67%, and the HCR belay/rap anchors sold here, by 50%.
Fortunately the new 40kn HCR hangers sold at MEC are still essentially the same price as last year, @ $3- Cdn. (That's about 82 cents US. ha ha.)
Meanwhile the lower rated 25kn Edelrid hangers cost more @ $3.90
40kn seems to be way over the required strength, as UIAA standards have not changed.
It seems quite likely that the new 40kn hangers will also increase in price. With this in mind I ordered a bunch today. As for anchors, there is no way I will pay $28- per. I will be making my own out of ss chain and ss quicklinks, at around $15- or $16-.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Jan 16, 2017 - 01:29am PT
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I agree, it seems a little unfair to inflict HCR stuff and a HUGE price increase on areas that clearly don't require it. Hopefully Fixe might continue to produce their gear in regular SS. If they don't it'll almost certainly lead to folk cutting corners and going back to making their own stuff, something I thought we'd moved on from - which is fine if it's well done - but around here there are some pretty clueless people with drills:
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Jan 16, 2017 - 04:03am PT
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Ha yes! I wonder if that swaging is stronger than the keyring chain in my photo?
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