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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Looks like a 15 foot bouldering problem to me. Now it would be a free solo!
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Looks serious, what with the helmets and all.
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perswig
climber
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Should be in the "Humble Field Stone" thread.
Dale
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I saw a guy who shall remain nameless drill the first bolt on a short wall with both feet on the ground. There was a hole of sorts just to his right, the idea was for the climber to emerge from the hole and make the first clip. Of course the climber could emerge from the hole, step aside onto Terra Firma, drink a beer, then climb the remaining 15 feet to the shuts.
This was at a high desert area NE of LA.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Shouldn't some things remain as a boulder problem or toprope?
I think people are going overboard with new routes (happens up here too)
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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I think people are going overboard with new routes (happens up here too)
yes. the in-situ off-color spraypainted sport abortus at granite pass comes to mind.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Would be great if this were an anomoly, but the pair appears to have done this to the tune of a 100 'routes'. They even wrote this description on one: "Bolted crack". I mean, wtf is with some people?
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BigB
Trad climber
Red Rock
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kingtut:
"They will lose interest in a year and you can steal their hanger and patch the hole. No one owns abandoned gear."
If "no one owns abandoned gear" then why are you "stealing" THEIR hangar
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Someone has to clean up after litterers and vandals.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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The litter includes the bolts, I assume.
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WBraun
climber
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Stupidest sh!t I've ever seen.
Why even bother.
It's that stupid and criminal .....
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Funny how you can take a proud 5.9 highball problem, and turn it into the stupidest climb in the world with a couple of bolts . . .
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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You guys really think it ends at the lip?
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Stupidest sh!t I've ever seen.
This says a lot because you have probably seen more stupid sh#t than just about anyone on this message board. And I agree.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Locker, checking out some cougar butt, hell yeah!!!
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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^^^^^^
Yes
But I've done some f ucking rad 3 bolt sport routes.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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I'd save your drill and hardware for TR's on tall, high quality boulders.
There's thousands of well bolted sport climbs in amazing places. Plan a fun trip to enjoy the work of others.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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If you look at the original picture on MP you will see two more bolts past the climber to the anchor/tat visible in the upper right of the photo, about another 10-15ft.
Edit
It can't be more than 20ft from the anchor to the ground directly under the anchor.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Perhaps part of the problem is romanticizing first ascents, which puts pressure on some people to make new routes however they can within their ability. Or maybe it's just a couple of dudes out enjoying themselves and not thinking about how the peanut gallery is going to judge them.
If it's a learning exercise, I see the point. If it's for safety, I don't: I'd probably just focus on landing cleanly as a boulder problem and it doesn't seem like a big deal. But it doesn't matter what I think because those dudes are the ones out there having the fun and they didn't need my affirmation for it.
Edit: After clicking the link for more context, it seems like a funny joke that totally went over my head when I just saw the picture on this thread. Plus, is he stepping on the bolt hanger?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Stupidest sh!t I've ever seen.
Why even bother.
It's that stupid and criminal .....
duck it's a problem up at pine mtn.
some local Ventura guys are hard up for the short sport sh#t. I no longer climb with them..
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I no longer climb
Fixed it for you, Pyro. ;)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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My fav...
I'm guessing the person taking the shot was on the ground, so that puts the first bolt where? And you know he's got a bolt at his waist if he's in that position.
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ground_up
Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
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And they put their name on it ? ...... really?
True La La land
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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beat the hell out of some Orange county carpet baggers
FACT, I got the scars! ;)
Just like a gang, you get bolt in, and you bolt out, to get out of the gang. LOL
I like those shorty sportys. Get to say I lead something rather than merely 'bouldered' it.
No one respects boulderers anyways, right?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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isnt there a boulder in Yosemite accros from the houskeepers camp that is a bolt ladder on it for aid practice?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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But I've done some f ucking rad 3 bolt sport routes.
At their bolt spacing that would make it a 12' route.
MiniSport - could be the latest rage if we publicize it: all the excitement of a full measure of clips in a fraction of the distance.
Or, could just be they learned in a Planet Granite gym and think that's the normal distance between bolts.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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I can't imagine wanting to lead that route, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't trust the bolting job, as a matter of deduction.
On another topic, why are my banner ads inviting me to "date Russians in my way".
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Healyje-
By your description the technical term would be fractional sport climbing and would be akin to arena football, frisbee golf and fractional timeshares
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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47 posts of a 12' boulder - LOL
One post per 3"!
Has it had a winter ascent yet?
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Send
Trad climber
Central Sierra
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Long time Jtree guide mentioned to me recently that the short sport sh#t is trying to seep its way into jtree roadside boulders.
Evolution baby!
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 10, 2017 - 12:05am PT
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^^^^^^
That's too bad.
The supertopo vultures ridiculed the route in the comments.
No matter how lame their little area is, I'm glad they have somewhere to climb out in that god forsaken land. I'd get sick of standing line for Sexy Grandma too.
To half the people on this thread- you wouldn't climb it with the bolts, and you sure as hell wouldn't climb it without them. So stfu and let this couple have their little zone of overbolted mini choss meth domes.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 10, 2017 - 12:14am PT
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F*#k that. You're really not getting it - it's one happy little couple and then a thousand happy little couples spewing bolts onto every boulder in sight.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 10, 2017 - 12:23am PT
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The only problem I really see was putting it on mtnproj.
You'd find someone/somewhere else to exercise your rabid anti bolt stance, I'm sure.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Jan 10, 2017 - 01:24am PT
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They're going to need a longer rope.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 10, 2017 - 05:33am PT
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You'd find someone/somewhere else to exercise your rabid anti bolt stance, I'm sure.
And this, this is a perfect example of why people are anti bolt - a complete and utter lack of awareness, common sense or even a hint of restraint.
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Jan 10, 2017 - 05:55am PT
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First bolt i ever chopped was on one of my favorite boulder problems at Speedboat ave.in 1984.
People know nothing about climbing ethics.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jan 10, 2017 - 06:07am PT
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1st, I'm not anti bolt.
Short Sport-oShjt?
Short ? That would seem to be a relatively broad definition.
If they come from, - "a Clip per move"! - Indoor background ? Then this is understandable . . .
Un-believably short sighted & entitled,
actions from a couple who ~
are Invested in looking cool but, are now marri d, & about to be old ,
so Obsolete in socially fun, young, circles; they feel on the slide down to mediocrity.
Bolts and FAs will be to show the spawn, that mommy & daddy were climbers before they got fat & had kidz . . . "
So . . . . The bigger picture as Joe says . . . .
&
The thing that some are missing is that these are ' Breeders'! They will be bolting walk ups for their 3 year olds
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Jan 10, 2017 - 06:50am PT
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If being anti bolt on a climb like this makes you rabid, is it possible to be anti-bolt without being rabid?
'Scuse me a moment, I'm getting froth on my keyboard.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 10, 2017 - 06:57am PT
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It will spread! They're breeding!
This is awesome!!!
Sounds like you guys need to build a wall.
Happy climbing, guys.
I'm going bouldering.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jan 10, 2017 - 06:58am PT
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It's desperate out there in the high desert... but Isn't this the type of thing you should be embarrassed to admit you did?
They've put up dozens of these things BTW.
Oh wait... just noticed they have yanked some routes off MP since last night. Don't want to give the choppers a map I guess?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 10, 2017 - 07:03am PT
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It just did spread to this couple and their hundred bolted 'routes' - they're a perfect example of how it spreads.
Going bouldering? Looks like that's now going to be a 'just don't clip'em' sort of deal if a nice happy young couple moves in near where you boulder.
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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Jan 10, 2017 - 07:28am PT
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Ever been to Wild Iris? There are tons of three bolt wonders. And it's considered world class. Why criticize someone for putting up routes the way they want to in an area you will never see?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 10, 2017 - 07:35am PT
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No doubt those Wild Iris three-bolt wonders have the bolts spaced about three feet apart.
I'm not worried about boulders I'm never going to climb, I'm worried about this spreading to the boulders and rocks I will climb.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2017 - 07:40am PT
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I think the only people arguing for the world-class status of Wild Iris are the ones who originally insisting on appending the term "Legendary" to its every mention.
But in answer to your question Mike... this stuff is on public land, it's not really their private rock, and these overbolted boulder problems are silly. No one is begrudging them their fun on these little blobs, just their compulsion to permanently alter the medium (and post about it) in a way that robs even these silly little blobs of what dignity they once had- turning them from proud scrambles to pathetic playpens.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Jan 10, 2017 - 08:24am PT
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LOL that wanna be has a leash on, full Deal Breaker. it's desperate up in Bishop bolts everywhere next to cracks.
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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Jan 10, 2017 - 10:07am PT
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The Fly at Rumney in NH has 2 bolts, both of which can be stick clipped from the ground. granted it's not a nice landing, and has been bouldered...but do people ignore this 'cause it's hard ? 14+ I hear
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 10, 2017 - 10:30am PT
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To me Robbin's first ascent principle is easily applied and is the best guideline.
If they have been bouldered before then the bolts should be chopped.
If they haven't been done before then the FA can establish them how they want. There's MANY areas with highball boulder problems. Having some areas with bolt protected short climbs for moderate climbers isn't the end of the world and provides the type of climbing some people enjoy and is appropriate for them.
If you don't want people altering (adding bolts to) your routes then you should appreciate the first ascent principle and allow others to do FAs as they wish.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jan 10, 2017 - 11:12am PT
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Burch, you crack me up, thanks for the levity. As far as the photos go, they look like nice folks. I've never been to the place they are bolting, and that does make a difference, but as HealyJ noted, the existence of this will cause it to come our way. It's actually here, I saw a "re"bolt of a 5.8 route that took tricky pro. The whole line of bolts just showed up, and they were poorly located as well. I'm not sure anything can be done, the pressure from the climbing gyms and "safe" bolted climbs is the norm any more.
And as Kingtut notes, this is a good point to layer ontop of the rest of it""You gotta ask yourself a critical question before you bolt: Are people actually going to repeat this route? Am I creating a public resource that justifies my eyesore? If it doesn't get any traffic, then the bolts should be removed and some future person can actually have a minor adventure re-discovering it or *crazy talk* have a real adventure climbing it without a rope."
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jan 10, 2017 - 11:20am PT
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Burchey, what relevance do their faces have to do with the conversation?
Seems like they are noobies and having some fun. They are getting feedback on those lines and they've made a choice to pull them from mp.
what value does putting their faces in this thread, with a bunch of semi anonymous posters pushing their own opinions, have?
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couchmaster
climber
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Jan 10, 2017 - 12:39pm PT
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Damn, I see Burch got X'ed out AGAIN! They must penalize for being entertaining around these parts.
Bad dawg Burch, bad dawg. They only want us old and decrepit types around here it appears. I'm not keeping count, (I am) cough but that's 4 times you've been banned is it Knott?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 10, 2017 - 12:49pm PT
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Excessive exuberance, probably a temporary hormone imbalance.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jan 10, 2017 - 12:54pm PT
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jh said: "Excessive exuberance, probably a temporary hormone imbalance."
^^Haha^^ I say we start a whitehouse petition to bring him back.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 10, 2017 - 02:06pm PT
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We were at Wild iris this summer . most everything we did was in the 25m range. There were certainly some squeeze jobs I did not approve of but for the most part the routs seems pleanty tall. The Fly looks pretty tall when you walk by it. first bolt is a stick clip so its up there a ways. if it was 5.10 and looked fun I would have bolted it. The pebbles on the Op of this thread seem way way smaller than the fly.
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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Jan 10, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
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Then who gets to decide what is tall enough? That seems a slippery slope.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 10, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
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The FA decides what is tall enough.
People for who climbing is an important part of their lives should accept these basic concepts. But I guess for some ego and righteousness are more important than other people having fun at a level they deem beneath them.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2017 - 03:22pm PT
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Well, how about if the FA asks 'could I fall off this safely with one pad'?
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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Jan 10, 2017 - 03:23pm PT
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Who decides who gets out the tuning fork and gives it the whack?
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Jan 10, 2017 - 03:28pm PT
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What's the FKT? Someone should make a Dan Osman-style video for this thing. Put it on Vine.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 10, 2017 - 03:42pm PT
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one of the good things about our bizzare and often full of crap rules is that they make me think when I do an FA. what are folks going to think about this climb? will it be accepted or ridiculed? Ultimatly its the FA teams call on how they do the climb or if they do the climb but I know at least for myself I want to create a finished climb that people like. I want a good job man at the end of the day. that helps me make decisions that hopefully won't land me on the front page of a supertaco beatdown for worst rout of the year award....
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2017 - 04:09pm PT
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I want to create a finished climb that people like
You can't create any climb unless you're manufacturing holds.
The climb is already there.
All you're doing is adding fixed protection if it's needed ......
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jan 10, 2017 - 04:14pm PT
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Bolts that are easily seen by non-climbers are a problem, an access problem. If this is happening raodside in JT as suggested upthread then this is definitely going to be a problem.
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Jan 10, 2017 - 04:18pm PT
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Stupidest sh!t I've ever seen.
Why even bother.
Climbing in general, or this route specifically?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 10, 2017 - 04:23pm PT
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the popularity of such climbs is probably very low.
Popularity is only one measure of worth, but there seem to be just as many or more people on moderate/easy climbs nowadays that intermediate/expert climbs. There are almost always lines of people for the easy classics like Munginella, the Grack, Snake Dike, etc.
I can think of two bolted 5.6s with only a few bolts each where I took some friends for their first ever leads. These folks will never progress much beyond that, they have other interests. But they sure had a good time on those days.
There is a newly developed area near me that has a number of bolted moderates (face climbs). Granted they are not super short like this, but I'm sure there are are plenty of people who would be all offended because there are bolted 5.5s and 5.6s and since that grade is easy for them they think they shouldn't be bolted. But I see that families, occasional climbers, newbies, etc. that have a blast there.
When I want to find more challenging routes I can. I don't think that my abilities or favorite type of climbing should be used as justification to dictate what type of climbs other people establish.
The first ascent principle is solid. It's about respect for other people. It's the same concept that keeps people from adding bolts to climbs. If people are justified removing bolts from FAs where does it stop? If I free solo Snake Dike can I now chop the bolts because I don't need them?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 10, 2017 - 04:24pm PT
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Werner. you spot The line, here in the north east you need to bring a wire brush with you to find the holds under the lichen and dirt. You connect the features with movement adding the odd bit of fixed protection that complets the puzzel. the end result of this vision and effort is perhaps a fine 5 star rout or a bag of crap. depends on how good your vision is and what you are drawn to...
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 10, 2017 - 04:30pm PT
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Bolts that are easily seen by non-climbers are a problem, an access problem. If this is happening raodside in JT as suggested upthread then this is definitely going to be a problem.
Agreed. But at this point all the roadside boulders in JT and other popular areas have likely had an FA and should not have bolts added. Bolts added to a roadside boulder would be obvious, easily accessible and quickly removed, as they should be.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2017 - 04:35pm PT
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depends on how good your vision is
That only means, .... can you find the climb that is already there?
If you can't find it and force it then it's crap.
You still didn't create anything .....
And Bob it was towards the route specifically from the original first post in this thread.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Jan 10, 2017 - 04:39pm PT
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Someone should make a Dan Osman-style video for this thing.
Seano, LOL.
In my mind I see Dan Osman riding his mountain bike up this route.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Jan 10, 2017 - 07:00pm PT
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Holy Shyte! That's beyond impressive!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 10, 2017 - 08:05pm PT
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The first ascent principle is solid. It's about respect for other people...
...and about respect for the rock, respect for the sport and - I know it's a stretch - self respect. Hell, if this 'route' were put up at a sport area here in Oregon people would be calling shite on it. I mean, come'on, seriously - are you looking at this rig?
What if someone had done this at Woodson, Stony Point, JTree, Mickey's Beach or COR? You guys would be screaming frigging bloody murder.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 10, 2017 - 08:15pm PT
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Go rub one out Healy.
You're a little whipped up bro.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jan 10, 2017 - 08:17pm PT
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Heal
With SPORT bolting at stoney point we just remove em then patch. Go find the guy tell em NO the drink a SPONSOR FISH BEER!
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Jan 10, 2017 - 08:38pm PT
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Haha, only on the Supertopo.
The n00b that climbs 30' routes is banned (again) for scorning the n00bz that climb 15' routes.
Did they drill that rig using a step ladder?
Can somebody photoshop that for us please?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 11, 2017 - 01:22am PT
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Woodson - 2017 thread: Thin is in...
WTF! Are you kidding me? That's a four-bolt rig right there.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Jan 11, 2017 - 04:13am PT
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Very irresponsible of that guy to climb without helmet and spotters. Though he does get points for having a photographer.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 11, 2017 - 09:07am PT
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Healy you are applying your standards to what other people do. I think it's great that you have likely have a strict ground up, place the absolute minimum number of bolts FA style. If you set a route that other people feel should have more bolts to be safer and it would be a lot more popular, too bad. You did the FA. The world needs bold routes.
But I think it's okay for other people to create tightly bolted routes (in areas where that jives with the local style) with very little risk getting injured in a fall from any point on the route. People enjoy those types of routes too.
The Le Conte boulder was brought up earlier. Some could consider that "route" a travesty. A tightly bolted ladder up a 30 foot boulder. But it's obviously a practice/learning route. Many people have enjoyed learning to aid on it. It serves it's purpose.
My best FA experiences by far have been on ground up adventures. But some of the routes I most proud of completing are shudder moderate bolted sport climbs that get a lot of traffic so hundreds or perhaps thousands of people have enjoyed them.
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Lloyd Campbell
Social climber
St. Cloud, MN
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Jan 11, 2017 - 10:31am PT
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The Le Conte boulder was brought up earlier. Some could consider that "route" a travesty. A tightly bolted ladder up a 30 foot boulder. But it's obviously a practice/learning route. Many people have enjoyed learning to aid on it. It serves it's purpose.
To me, this basically makes the case that it's okay for someone to go to the Valley and put up tons of one- and two-bolt routes on every 20' boulder in the place. Am I reading that right? F*k yeah!!!! The possibilities for practice are endless!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 11, 2017 - 11:13am PT
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For free climbs every moderate 20' boulder without an approach has already been free climbed / FAed.
For aid, no need to put up another aid practice boulder route. Unless Le Conte got so crowded another one was needed. And even then it takes a lot of time to hand drill a bolt ladder so it would take someone really motivated to add another one.
I'm really glad there's a power drill (mechanized) ban in wilderness. It increases the time and effort to place bolts so much more thought is given. At least for most people.
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