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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 28, 2016 - 10:49am PT
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Too bad Amanda didn't try to tickle her.
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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Dec 28, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 28, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
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an underdog favorite.
??????
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
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an underdog favorite.
??????
She's fighting the title belt holder therefore Ronda is the underdog.
The pro's think she'll win = Favored
Edit:
Rousey on Conan show;
Conan: Nunes says she's gonna take you out in the 1st round
Ronda: Well, she's gotta tell herself something 'cause she gasses out in the 2nd
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 28, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
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I doubt it will go three rounds.
It will all come down to Rousey, and whether she can penetrate Nunes outer circle of offense. If she can, she has a huge advantage in her judo skills.
If they remain upright, Nunes has the advantage, and will pound her down.
Hard to say.
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ruppell
climber
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Dec 28, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
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Umm, there in no such thing as an underdog favorite. You're either the underdog or the favorite regardless of who has the belt. In this case Rousey is the favorite at -110 and Nuenes is the underdog at +130.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
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Umm, there in no such thing as an underdog favorite.
You're right.
It's one or the other.
Either way, I hope Ronda goes home victorious Friday night.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Dec 28, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
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it's an interesting fight, because rousey at this point is such a wild card...
given the yearish long meltdown she went through and the fact that she kept the coach who most of the pundits [including her mom] think hasn't really helped her progress [and has instead been a kind of "yes" man], means it's even more difficult than usual to have a strong opinion one way or the other...
and then combine that with nunes, who has some strange losses and a lack of endurance, and it's anybody's guess...
i'd probably place my money on rousey... but i wouldn't bet much.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 28, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
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Chicks in general , are unpredictable...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 28, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
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I've heard a lot of public figures wax on about how Rousey is such a great role model for girls and young women. Sure, if acting like a total ass in the media and at weigh in, refusing to touch gloves at the fight, showing up all arrogant while being visibly out of shape and getting her ass handed to her, and generally behaving with no respect for her opponents is being a role model.
Wyo's in for 34 seconds? I wouldn't do her with his... :-)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 28, 2016 - 09:56pm PT
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Kris, I agree with your assessment of the person. Not particularly sportsmanlike. An embarrassment to her Judo teachers, who I'm sure taught her better than that.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 28, 2016 - 10:29pm PT
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Look she was nearly killed in her last fight against Holm--someone who promptly lost her next two fights (she was first TKO'd by Cupcake, who herself was then beaten and promptly retired, and then badly beaten by an undersized albeit very nasty little Ukrainian girl).
Even though I don't like "Rowdy," I don't like to see anyone get injured and genuinely fear for her safety. I suppose she has the grappler's equivalent of a "puncher's chance" if she can somehow get hold of Nunes and apply her patented armbar, but a far more likely scenario is getting beaten to within an inch of her life--just hope they've got a ref who keeps fighter safety in mind and ends it before she's seriously injured. This one could be ugly . . .
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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Dec 28, 2016 - 10:39pm PT
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Remember, this is a new class all together...ronda was the 1st professional to enter the scene, on a sceene that had never existed, never ever seen before...all the others are painters, climbers, uber drivers and such that have jobs and take a crack at fighting. Throw yourself in there and basically you have most of RR's fights. Holly had standup but no ground, Sara(the only "trained" opponent) has wresting but no striking, BBJ, etc. The days of the one dimensional fighter are gone. Kidds these days got major skillz in all, yes all aspects and RR has ZERO striking, footwork and has relied on her judo(#whothef*#kdoesjudo?.com) to get the fight to the ground where she has one move. She is facing a well rounded opponent who knows to keep her hips low if she ties up and has an advantage on the ground, that's a first. RR went ~3 rounds w Misha & Nunes rolled thru her like nothing. Anything can happen butt I would rather see Holm Vs angry lousey. She should retire before she gets embarrassed like Anderson
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 29, 2016 - 04:26am PT
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WYO for the humor win. I agree ronda was not a good role model as champion. acted like a punk. Holly is a class act but obviously not well rounded enough for this new group of women. Rousey has a sluggers chance with her arm bar but I expect her to get retired.... she was exposed the same way Buster douglas exposed mike Tyson. Once there is tape out there to study of an unbeatable fighter being beaten badly the game is never the same...
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 29, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
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Weigh-in does not look good for Rousey mentally--
Looks scared, deer in the headlights. Apparently she turned tail and ran after the weigh in, refusing UFC's request for take (customary) photos. (She does have some pretty ripped abs though.)
Nunes looks like a typical high-level fighter--confident and aggressive.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
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Looks scared, deer in the headlights. Apparently she turned tail and ran after the weigh in, refusing UFC's request for take (customary) photos. (She does have some pretty ripped abs though.)
In desert racing that's called a "race face".
She looks as if she only has one thing on her mind, winning.
It's been my experience that competitors that can stay this focused are the ones with the best shot at a championship.
I think Ronda has learned a valuable lesson.
The quiet ones are the ones to watch out for.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 29, 2016 - 01:12pm PT
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In desert racing that's called a "race face".
She looks as if she only has one thing on her mind, winning.
It's been my experience that competitors that can stay this focused are the ones with the best shot at a championship.
I think Ronda has learned a valuable lesson.
The quiet ones are the ones to watch out for.
That's putting a positive spin on it and who knows what will happen (I've seen enough fights to know that predictions are pretty worthless, it's an anything-can-happen type sport).
But I don't think you need to use deep psychology to see what's going on here:
she was very seriously injured in the Holm fight, both physically and mentally. I don't think she wanted to fight again, ever, at least not against a girl who can actually hit her. And she knows very well that Nunes can do that and more.
But either the payday was too good to resist or she wasn't strong enough mentally to stand up to everyone telling her to get back in the game when her heart wasn't in it.
This reminds me of Carlos Condit's last fight. The former "Natural Born Killer" was among the best in the world (probably should have been champion but lost a very controversial split decision).
But then he lost his desire to compete, and ended his career in a very surprising and poor performance--he looked to be a pale ghost of his former self.
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ruppell
climber
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Dec 29, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
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RR went ~3 rounds w Misha & Nunes rolled thru her like nothing.
Yep. And Nunes got knocked out by Cat Zingano in the third round. Rousey arm barred Zingano in 14 seconds. It's a fight anything can happen.
Rousey has a sh#t attitude and I have almost zero respect for how she acts. I have the utmost respect for how she performs. She got her ass handed to her by Holmes. She took a year off to collect herself and most likely train in some areas she was weak in. Losses like that can make a fighter or they can break a fighter. This fight will show what option Rousey chooses.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 29, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
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Rousey might have legit mental health issues - her dad died pretty early in her life and who knows what kind of defensive walls are put up after that kind of shock to your security.
Either way, I tend to go back and forth on where this fight goes. A focused Rousey tosses Nunes and takes quite a bit of punishment and will find her openings (she has great cardio when not getting pieced up). OR, she pulls a McCall-Lewis '97 and listlessly paces around the octagon before getting headkicked.
Either way I'm tuning in. Really bummed Nunes isn't getting the attention she deserves, also the first LGBT world champ in mainstream combat sports (in the marquee women's combat division, no doubt). A Nunes win would be huge for her, huge for people fighting homophobia trying to get respect in this sport as well.
In the end, /popcorn.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Dec 29, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
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WhyoRockMan:
That post was completely chauvinistic. Loved it. Looks good to me.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2016 - 06:33pm PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 29, 2016 - 10:11pm PT
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it seems to me that the advantage generally goes to preparation.
Granted, anything can happen in a fight. Ali v. Norton, when Ali fought with a broken jaw.
Each fighter knows the other's strength, and should have been training to counter it.
What Rousey has going for her in this regard, is that she trains with men, who are US and world Champions. Her mother was also the first American World Champion in Judo. These are strong things. If she has trained well and is fit, she should have the tools to get the job done. Her philosophy of "treat every 5 seconds as the last 5 seconds of the fight", and the adoption of aggressive offense at the expense of defense, means that she will be going at her opponent full tilt every moment.
I seriously doubt that her opponent has ever fought anyone like her. She better get her hits in early.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 30, 2016 - 03:25am PT
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they are both in shape, they both have skills. It will boil down to the mental game. Nunes has a huge advantage in the mental game.. Rousey may have allready retired. This could be ugly.....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 30, 2016 - 09:10am PT
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Rousey's behavior has Nunes distracted and unfocused... Might be a split decision and come down to whoever has more media draw...
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2016 - 10:59am PT
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Nunes does not want to let go of that belt.
Rousey does not want to go out a loser.
Both are extremely motivated. Too tough to call.
Should be an amazing contest!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 30, 2016 - 11:27am PT
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I have to give Rhonda and the UFC credit for coming up with a great gameplan to generate hype for the fight--complete media silence on the part of Rhonda.
Normally one might think that having one of the fighters basically opt out of all media appearances and go AWOL would be bad for the hype, but now we're all completely guessing as to what's going on in Rhonda's head.
Has she been training like a crazywoman for the past year and will enter the fight with new-and-improved skills and determined to overcome her last performance? I suppose there is some evidence of this in looking at her ripped physique (still don't think she's especially attractive, but those abs are not bad at all . . .)
Or, as I believe, is she a complete basket case who wants no part in getting another beating like she got last time, is getting in the cage for all the wrong reasons, and is setting herself up for an epic fail a la Aldo against McGregor?
Hard to say so we'll have to tune in
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 30, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
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Ronda looked scared at the weigh in. like someone trapped in something they don't know how to get out of.......
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
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Thank you everyone who came out to support at the weigh-ins today. Looking forward to proving you all right tomorrow. It's going to be the happiest New Year ever.
She's not sounding scared on instagram
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 30, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
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I just watched the Nunes tate fight. OMG Nunes is a beast. Ronda watched that tape combined with what happened the last time she fought and she is seriously concerned about keeping her looks for her movie career. Ronda is suddenly very acutely aware that losing to these world class strikers is nothing like loseing a grappeling/ judo match. She had the look of a condemed person at the weigh in...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 30, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
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I sincerly hope that they both have a good showing and no one gets hurt too badly.
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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Dec 30, 2016 - 09:50pm PT
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Told you...bye bye Rhonda Lousey
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 30, 2016 - 09:52pm PT
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done deal...Nunes wins...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 30, 2016 - 10:02pm PT
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UFC: Rousey takes $3M for getting beat decisively, bNunez gets $200k for winning. Fortunately Herb Dean saved Rhonda from some serious hospital time.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2016 - 10:02pm PT
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That sucked
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 30, 2016 - 11:08pm PT
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Well, it seemed clear that Nunes had prepared for the type of fighter Rousey is, and optimized her game plan to take advantage of Rousey. Rousey, on the other hand did not appear to have prepared to take on another boxer, and she had the same outcome as before. She walked right into the Nunes punching machine right from the start, and had no way to answer.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2016 - 01:39am PT
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Rousey tried to throw punches with Nunes, but she had nothing to offer. Nunes was blistering her with combinations, hitting her with virtually everything she threw.
“This is amazing,” Nunes said in exultation.
Nunes landed 23 of 35 strikes she threw, all of which were powerful shots. She backed Rousey up from the very first seconds of the bout and simply overwhelmed her.
“She thinks she’s a boxer,” Nunes said of Rousey. “He [Edmond Tarverdyan] put that in her head and he has her believing that. I don’t know why he did that. She has great judo. She could go further in this division, but he put some crazy thing about boxing [in her head] and then her career started going down. I’m the real striker here.”
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 31, 2016 - 04:08am PT
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I called the last two fights from watching her weigh in...... stick to hollywood.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 31, 2016 - 04:08am PT
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and yes she has a lousy trainer.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 31, 2016 - 04:22am PT
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where do these analists come up with their crap?? why was Ronda the betting favorite? She still had the same trainer, she still has no boxing skills and she was going up against a fighter with great boxing skills and great ground skills.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 31, 2016 - 05:33am PT
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3 million is better than her acting gig is going bring. Hard to fault her for trying.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 31, 2016 - 06:51am PT
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WTF, Not. She simply did not have the skills to compete at that level... she has only been doing MMA for a few years. Holly Holms started kickboxing at age 11 and then switched to boxing. Amanda Nunes started in karate and then ju jitsu and Muy Thai. Rousy was 100% judo her whole life until her move to MMA. she was a one trick pony. Holm exposed her weakness and now ronda is finished... and her coach sucks. she should have been able to beat Holms on the ground but her coach kept telling her she was doing great at her stand up....
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Dec 31, 2016 - 07:46am PT
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two thoughts:
what a great stoppage by dean. when i watched it live it seemed like he stepped in kind of early... but watching the replay it became obvious that he did what a pro ref should do in that situation. there's nothing that takes away from mma more than a ref that stops too early... other than a ref making a stoppage too late. so kudos to him for being one of the two professionals in that ring and for making a great call...
second, i'm honestly having trouble thinking of a fall from grace/hype that was quite as thorough and as spectacular as rousey's now is. nunes made rousey look like she was an amateur who had entered the ring after a drunken bet with her girlfriends. the sport truly has moved past her... and at the same time, she was not able to even begin to deal with the mental/emotional demons she must have and instead continued to surround herself with people who didn't apparently do anything to help her take any steps towards addressing her shortcomings. while, i'm not astounded by the loss, i have to admit i am a little surprised by the thoroughness of it. if she was suicidal before, this was kind of like a modern equivalent to watching a public foot flogging down at the town's centre square... i hope rousey finds some peace someday... cause that [both holm and nunes] was about as humiliating a set of experiences, that i can recall, a human as hyped as rousey was, ever going through. and that's not just because she got beat... everyone gets beat someday... rather it's because it was done in such a thorough and convincing fashion that it didn't just take the present away, it somehow managed to even take some of the past away.
regardless, long live the lioness... cool to see women's mma continue to evolve and mature into a sport with actual professionals [and not just amateurs being paid professional purses] in the same way that men's mma did in the mid aughts.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 31, 2016 - 07:56am PT
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She was stupid staying with that idiot Edmund (her coach and trainer).
Useless moron who destroyed her.
The guy should be arrested for almost getting his fighter killed.
Get a real coach/trainer who will make her humble and train her real striking and defensive skills instead of building up a one trick pony.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Dec 31, 2016 - 09:18am PT
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jesus christ she got wailed on
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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Dec 31, 2016 - 09:39am PT
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I disagree Locker...she blocked 35 of ~50 strikes....
with her face !!!
"Remember, this is a new class all together...ronda was the 1st professional to enter the scene, on a sceene that had never existed, never ever seen before"....big fish in a small pond.
Her 15 minutes is over, she did great things for womens MMA, single handedly getting it in the UFC. Remember Dana said "never" but she convinced him. Unfortunately she was kind of a bad representative of the sport, a sore loser and kind of a sore winner too. I have no problem watching the highlight reel of her getting KO'd, even better if someone could dub in the Holm head kick.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2016 - 10:04am PT
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Not making excuses for Ronda but, I think there may have been a different outcome had Nunes been (mis)managed the same way by the same people.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2016 - 10:22am PT
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To be fair, it is not reasonable to call the coaching bad, when we don't know what they advised.
Ronda appears to be a very strong-headed person, with a record that supported that she was the best alive. A lot of people said so.
She was also a person who did not appear to have a humble bone in her body.
I could easily see her as a person who views the first loss as a fluke, and that all she needed to do was train harder, but exactly the same way.
Of course, that feeds directly into an opponent's game plan, if she does exactly what she has always done---she is no longer a moving target, but a fixed one. Her weakness exposed, an opponent knows exactly what to do--and that was what Nunes did brilliantly.
Rousey never seemed to have a plan "B"
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 31, 2016 - 10:26am PT
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What about that moron ref letting it go so long? She was incurring brain damage long
before he stepped in. That was criminal negligence.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2016 - 10:31am PT
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What about that moron ref letting it go so long? She was incurring brain damage long
before he stepped in. That was criminal negligence.
I think he had a difficult job and did it well.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2016 - 10:35am PT
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Ronda appears to be a very strong-headed person, with a record that supported that she was the best alive. A lot of people said so.
She was also a person who did not appear to have a humble bone in her body.
I could easily see her as a person who views the first loss as a fluke, and that all she needed to do was train harder, but exactly the same way.
Have to agree with Ken M on this one. I wasn't taking into consideration Ronda's stubborn attitude.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Dec 31, 2016 - 10:56am PT
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where do these analists come up with their crap?? why was Ronda the betting favorite?
For the same reason that big names always get a bump on odds-betting favorite isn't who the oddsmakers think will win, it's how they think they can split the (largely uninformed) public's bets to maximize profit.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 31, 2016 - 11:05am PT
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"Analists"? I thought this was a family friendly channel?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 31, 2016 - 11:50am PT
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We are assuming that her coaching sucked because most of us have heard the audio from the Holm fight where the moron trainer is telling her that she was winning the stand up while she was clearly outclassed. The trainer should have been telling her to close the gap and get it on the ground but sent her out there to bang with a world champion boxer. yes the trainer sucks and did not show us anything in this fight to change our opinions.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 31, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
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Dean when you are a young man getting in the ring and pounding the crap out of each other is fun.. I used to watch that stuff to learn. now its kind of brutal to watch.....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 31, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
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the harsh reality is that little boys like to hit things. Even when we have good lives and good parents with enough food on the table little boys like to practice and play at hunting, fighting and war.... perhaps it is a sign of our deteiorating society that now little girls want to fight and go to war as well...
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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Dec 31, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
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You guys can turn anything into politics.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
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We are assuming that her coaching sucked because most of us have heard the audio from the Holm fight where the moron trainer is telling her that she was winning the stand up while she was clearly outclassed. The trainer should have been telling her to close the gap and get it on the ground but sent her out there to bang with a world champion boxer. yes the trainer sucks and did not show us anything in this fight to change our opinions.
That's not unreasonable, considering that we don't get to see the coaching process.
However, in my experience, it is not the trainers job to work out the strategy and tactics, but to support that decision. Cheerleading. He knows what the strategy is, and the fighter knows. To introduce uncertainty into the equation, when the fighter is pummeled and confused, is probably the wrong move for the trainer. I think of strategy decisions as coaching. They say "plan your work, and work your plan"
Creating a new plan on-the-spot, without serious thought, and months to train in execution, is generally a quick descent into failure.
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Norton
Social climber
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Dec 31, 2016 - 05:05pm PT
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blasphemy
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 31, 2016 - 06:42pm PT
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ken , when your fighter is getting mauled in the standup like ronda was against Holly and you tell your fighter that they are winning and just keep doing what your doing that makes you a very,very bad coach. you don't sound like you know much about getting in the ring or working a corner......
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 31, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
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Really good breakdown here of the fight, and the overall failure of the grappler in the meta of high level modern MMA
However, in my experience, it is not the trainers job to work out the strategy and tactics,
Curious what your experience is because it is precisely the job of the head coach to come up with the game plan for their fighter. It is literally their most important job.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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It appeared to me that Rhonda's reaction times were not as quick as Nunes' ability to dish out strikes. She lost because she was out of her league. If you're not quick enough to block an opponent's strikes, you're simply going get pummeled and lose. Nunes is a better athlete with a more winning attitude.
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Nunes could kick Trumps a$$...I'd pay to watch that.
Politics aside...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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ken , when your fighter is getting mauled in the standup like ronda was against Holly and you tell your fighter that they are winning and just keep doing what your doing that makes you a very,very bad coach.
It does, I agree. However, it is important to understand that the TRAINER is not the COACH, and that they have a different function. These are TWO DIFFERENT JOBS, with different responsibilities.
I agree that when a plan is not working, one should have a plan "B", and it is the job of the COACH and the player to decide when to go that way. And that was the case, here. However, plan "B" is not something that one should be creating on the spot, with half your brain not working due to injury. It's all got to be worked out in advance, trained and practiced for months, and be ingrained.
It seems clear that was never anticipated, here. The thinking seemed to be that Rousey, in the fight before, had just gotten hit by a wild swing, and her fundamental game was sound, and there was no need for a plan "B". Huge mistake. Whether this was a coach working out of his zone, or a player that refused to change tactics, or both, we don't know. I suspect a combination.
I suppose that the other possibility is that Rousey just could not adopt boxing techniques, either offense or defense, in spite of intense coaching and advice. She just didn't have the talent at that level....and no amount of coaching was going to make her the equal of a puncher who'd trained that way their entire careers.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Curious what your experience is because it is precisely the job of the head coach to come up with the game plan for their fighter. It is literally their most important job.
I could not agree more about the coach. Others were arguing that this was the trainer's job, and it is not. The trainer's job is to support the decision of the Coach and Player.
Well, it was many decades ago, but I was a national champion in jujitsu. I'm sure I've forgotten more than I remember (except to duck!) I studied with "Bud" Estes, Willy Cahill, and Gosei Yamaguchi, among others.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Rousey needs to work on her weaknesses... Acting..
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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you are splitting hairs trainer vs coach. how about the whole damn training camp sucks.. I was never a pro though I was serious about being a martial artist. When one of my students had a poor showing I took a huge part of the blame for not prepareing them properly. Maybe in straight up jiu jitsu you stick to a plan come hell or high water but in all the karate and kickboxing that I was involved in we were fluid and changed our game plan according to what was actually happening in the ring or on the dojo floor. Ronda was up against a world champion boxer who was makeing her look like an amature. her corner told her that she was winning the stand up and just keep doing what your doing. that is about as bad as it gets. her next fight she has no answers for the stand up and can't get it to the ground.. yes she was in the wrong damn training camp. Even in a different camp she may have lost the fight but at least she would have had a chance to not look like a yellow belt in the process..........
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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My assessment came from just watching that one Rhonda-Amanda fight. I can see now that the problem really was coaching. Rhonda is not a boxer. Why did her coach tell her to stand up and trade blows with Nunes? Stupid. She should have wrestled her and taken her to the floor where she could have used her judo moves effectively. But in a standup slug fest Rhonda just isn't fast enough to counter lightning fast strikes. Why in the world did Rhonda play her opponent's game? A good general always picks out a battlefield that is to his own advantage prior to the first blow. Who in the world tried to convince Rhonda she could box? Now she got hurt and that probably blew her confidence forever. Finis. It's always dangerous when you begin to believe your own PR and propaganda. Takes you to Moscow or Stalingrad, but not beyond the Volga.
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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By and large one does not "block" punches but rather slips them via timing, fainting, footwork, etc. and it is not something you learn overnight just as Nunes couldn't hope to compete at the level of Ronda's judo. The days of the one dimensional fighter are gone. You can be better at one aspect but you had best be bringing a full set of tools to your next job.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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wedge, her footwork was hideous....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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the division has finally caught up to the rest of MMA . In other words Ronda was a big fish in a small pond. the pond got bigger.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Edmund is her striking and head coach, she has a couple others for strength and conditioning/BJJ/wrestling. Not sure what you are talking about...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Trad, I can't respond intelligently, if you keep changing the story. First it was "her trainer" did this or that, now it is "her corner" without specifying who said what.
What I do know is that I was not there, and I did not hear what was said by any of her people in either of her losses. I do know that she was not prepared for what she faced, and I also know that I don't know why. I don't know the people, and although her gym is about 5 miles from me, I've never been there to see for myself. I just know the outcomes.
I have been very disappointed in the past by her behavior, and I would be the same if she came out and blamed her various team members.
I will be interested to see if this is the end of her MMA career, as Nunes says that it will be. It is easy to write people off, and we often do.
I am reminded of the case of Andre Agassi, who fell off the edge of the earth in his sport, went down into the "B" league (I have never heard of any sportsperson, in any sport, who was world class and did this), worked to regain world-class form, then climbed back up to be #1 in the world. Unbelievable lack of ego.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Ken. Not changing anything. You seem all worked up over the difference between coach and trainer. Watch the fights and they zoom in on the corner. In the Holmes fight you can see and hear her corner man tell her she is winning . The announcer tells you that guy is her head trainer or coach or whatever the f*#k you want to call him.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Boy but that girl beat her like a rented mule.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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And what I am saying it that it makes a difference.
You may think it makes no difference to attack a person who is doing their job---exactly their job, the way they are supposed to do it----and your excuse is that the fight media told you so? Really? And even then, you cannot distinguish between the two DIFFERENT jobs.
The trainer's job is to TRAIN---I can't believe I have to explain that fundamental fact. It is not to coach, to create strategy, to tell a fighter to deviate from her plan. That is the Coach's job. Not the trainer, Head Trainer.
I really don't think we are separated by much, here.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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aparently they tell us that the trevelan guy is the main man in her camp and also the guy in her corner telling her how great her crappy boxing is. the dude her mom thinks is a crappy coach. You can give him whatever title you want but he shure as sh#t did not do a good job in the Holms fight and he did not do anything to improve her stand up for the Nunes fight.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Those punches she took - good thing for Ronda it wasn't somebody bigger hitting her. Of course, if that had been the case she would have lasted 15-20 seconds.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Ken. when I was involved in the martial arts sensei was the trainer, coach and god. you did whatever you were told. I spent a ton of time on both sides of that equasion.
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WBraun
climber
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Tradman
You might as well forget it. The doctor dude can't for the life of him understand a simple thing ....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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yes i believe you are correct...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Trad, as a Sensei of many years, I understand where you are coming from.
However, these professional fighters work in a different system, to some degree. Boxing is much closer to describing how things work.
You unwillingness to accept my attempt to reach out to you to find common ground says more to me about your MA training, than your rhetoric.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I am going on what I observed watching both fights and what I read on SB nation and a few of the other MMA sites. If It makes you feel any better perhaps she should fire the trainer and the coach. Still think you are splitting hairs... you know damn well what I was getting at and your just trying to be difficult.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Trad, explain it how you want. I've been trying to find common understanding and ground with you, and you seem absolutely determined to dis any point of view or experience I may have. You have not given an inch, although you've never been in that experience at that level.
Ok, I give up. You are an expert on everything having to do with combat and martial arts, and the rest of us are lucky to walk on ground you've touched.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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so rousys corner did a good job in the holms fight and a good job prepareing her for the nunes fight?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Beat like a rented mule...LMAO...how cruel..
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2017 - 05:06pm PT
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"Terrible" tradmanclimbs vs Ken "The Killer" M
January 6th, Ceaser's Palace, Las vegas
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Good match up... Dr. Ken , The Sand Man vs. Tradman , The ice ax cometh..
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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so rousys corner did a good job in the holms fight and a good job prepareing her for the nunes fight?
NO. They did a terrible job of PREPARING her for both. But we don't know what happened. You sound like you've never encountered a person who has had their bell rung. There is no such thing as a reasonable discussion.
In the Nunes match, WHEN would that discussion have happened? She never made it back to the corner?
In the prep, I could easily see this scenario:
Coach: "Ronda, we need to train you much harder in boxing, especially defensive techniques"
Ronda: "No way. I've lost one fight, on a lucky punch. I then had trouble getting in for a takedown. I need more work on getting that takedown. I don't like punching, I don't want to waste my time punching.
The girl I'm fighting is a good boxer, but she's been beat 4 times. She was beat in 1-1/2 min by the girl I beat in 14 seconds. I need to get her on the ground.
Coach: "I don't agree, but you're paying the bills"
Maybe that was the way it was, maybe not. Her demonstrated ego would not surprise me with that action.
I refuse to trash the reputation of a guy whose name I don't know (the Trainer), when I have no inside knowledge of the decision making involved. It's not fair, it's not reasonable, and it's not sportsmanlike.
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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What would Jesus do ?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Suckers, it has all been fixed just to bring in more of your money for the next rematch.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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"Sports don't build character. They reveal it!"
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Maybe that was the way it was, maybe not.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Ken. that a reasonable thought on the nunes fight. the holms fight however it's all on tape. you can clearly hear the guy telling her she is doing great and just keep doing what your doing..
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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third thought:
what was sad about this fight is that we'll never know...
there is no question that the sport is evolving and that rousey's relatively one dimensional dominance in the near past was in all likelihood nearing its nadir...
with that said, it also seems clear to me that this wasn't entirely just nunes winning...
i'm not saying that nunes couldn't have beaten a mentally healthy rousey... after seeing that fight, i suspect she would have.
unfortunately that's not the only thing that we, imesho, just watched...
and so it's one thing to watch a healthy and well trained former champ go out fighting a healthy and well trained opponent... it's another to watch them go out thanks in large parts to personal demons that are as big or bigger than their opponents skills...
unfortunately, i suspect we watched as much or more of the latter, as we did of the former...
and so even if nunes likely would have won in either case, what we didn't get to see is what i suspect could have been an actual fight if rousey had the emotional/psychological health to come at this fight with the full force of her being...
instead we got to watch the ritual execution of a struggling "elder".
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Cyborg vs Rousey
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Peater
Trad climber
Salt Lake City Ut.
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Not fighting is OK OK
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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nah000, I found the fight disturbing. I think you have it right. I like a good well matched fight, it isn't all about the violence of it. It can be brutal, but it's also under control in a crazy sort of way. I found no satisfaction in watching Rousey crushed and humiliated in a few seconds.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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As I stated up page, young men like to fight. Two evenly matched guys going at it for the pure fun of fighting with no real animosity twords each other are fun to watch. This fight was not fun to watch. And I do strongly believe it is the job of the training camp / dojo to get their fighter in mental and physical shape for the fight and give them the skills to defend themselfs in the ring. One of the things that turns me off about modern MMA is the lack of respect, all the trash talk and the animosity.
When I was comming up there was no MMA. You had point tournaments which was a bad joke or you had boxing and kickboxing. If you wanted to really test your martial arts skills outside the rules of boxing and kickboxing what we had were challange matches. There were official chalanges and unnoficial ones. The unoffical chalange match might be refered to as a gym war. This would happen when a high level student or instructor would visit to train with annother dojo. When it came time to spar things would get real and we would find out which school was better. Sensei would of course match up the guest with the student he felt best suited for the task. (I was one of his go to guys for about a decade) Ocasionally sensei would get in on the fun himself. It was undestood that this would happen. If you went accross town and invited yourself into annother dojo you knew you were going into the lions den. We always went out for drinks after class and discussed in detail the ups and downs of these bouts. There was respect and it was fun and the hangovers were monstreous. I also fought several actual chalange matches as well. The most memorable of which we met in a park, got all dressed up in our silly pajama outfits with the belts and dojo patches. We bowed to each other and then had a 45 min full contact brawl after which we went to a bar and drank a dozen or so beers and he came and joined our dojo... That was fun.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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What would Jesus do ?
Jesus votes Trump now
so he'd grab her by the pu$$y!!!
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Ksolem wrote: "I found the fight disturbing"
yeah, i was thinking about this fight some more today, and it seems like part of an unfortunate trajectory the ufc has been on for at least the last yearish: the pursuit and prioritization of big money fights whenever possible, overtop of more structured and title building fights...
i'm talking about prioritizing fights like the diaz/mcgregor fights, the lesnar/hunt fight and yes, the rousey/nunes fight...
why include the rousey/nunes fight in there? because if nunes had the drawing power of rousey and vice versa, then that fight would never have happened. the ufc would have made rousey fight someone else before they allowed her another fight for the title. and given her meltdown and the style of her title losing fight, this is as it should have been if the health of the individual fighters and the division as a whole was made paramount.
why didn't that happen? same reason mcgregor was fighting catchweight fights instead of defending his title for most of this past year: mammon.
and so there are a lot of people to blame for this short sighted trajectory: the ufc brass [dana, fertittas, and wme], the fight watching public, and the fighters/their camps themselves...
as rousey made at least 3 million on this fight, she was not just a passive victim to what is ultimately, imo, a short sighted strategy on the part of the ufc.
however, i do hope that 3 million was worth a piece of her soul.
the devil giveth [mammon], but he certainly did take away...
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Russian intervention affected the outcome.
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ruppell
climber
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McGregor never fought a catchweight fight in the UFC. He fought Diaz at welterweight. He's holding the featherweight and lightweight titles currently. There's a strong rumor going around that he'll fight Woodley next for a shot at the welterweight belt. If that happens the UFC needs to have interm champion fights at both featherweight and lightweight. While I agree it's all about selling tickets McGregor is the real deal.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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^^^^
yeah, fair enough on the welterweight vs catchweight technicality...
that said, and the reason i was thinking it was catchweight, was that the ufc's having the second fight at the meaningless [to both fighters] welterweight class, meant that it was effectively catchweight...
no doubt mcgregor is the real deal... and the irony in my argument is that i suspect those two diaz fights did more to make mcgregor the great fighter that he is and in all likelihood will be, than any fights he might have done within his own weight classes...
ie. not trying to argue that these big money fights don't have a place... just saying it seems the balance has been tipped a bit far in that direction, if the long term robustness/competitiveness of the different divisions is the primary goal.
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ruppell
climber
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Nahooo
I agree. It has been going that way for a long time. Put people in the seats and sell as many PPV tickets as you can. To do that they need star athletes. So they hype it up and sell the event. Should Rousey have gotten that title shot right away? In my opinion, no. Should McGregor be able to hold three belts at the same time? My opinion, no. But my opinion doesn't mean sh#t to the UFC. Money does. And there making bank.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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JB:
agreed. that is what has made the ufc great: the relative to boxing lack of political bullshIt resulting from a "let's throw the best two fighters at each other without dubious reffing and see who comes out on top" approach to things...
and while i agree very little has changed, i do think that there has been a tendency away from placing the two best contenders at each other in favour of hyping the cash drawing fights...
you think i'm intellectualizing... i think you're missing a subtlety...
time will tell.
rupell:
no doubt they are.
rousey made bank too.
as long as they balance big money fights with fights that further the strength of the differing weight classes, they'll keep doing great... if not... well... time will tell.
just as it did for rousey.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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There's a strong rumor going around that he'll fight Woodley next for a shot at the welterweight belt.
Don't believe it.
McGregor is a great fighter but he's mostly great at beating up smaller guys.
Against Diaz he got one ass beating and one very close decision (where he was close to getting knocked out).
Against Woodley he would be fighting someone with the same height/reach, but a much larger frame, and who is also an overall great fighter.
I think McGregor has an ego (prob all fighters do), but he's smart enough to keep it in check and stay very far from Woodey (and any other top fighter in the real 170 weight class--remember that Diaz is a lightweight fighter with a very unsuccessful foray into welterweight, and just fought McG at ww due to strange circumstances).
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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considering the children around the world living with it every day.
says the righteous white father of the black daughter, after he called Michelle Obama (arguably our countries most well-respected black woman) a man.
Yep, lots of black children living with that racist "black women are manly" crap every day, including our black daughters. Let's try not to pile on.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Jan 11, 2017 - 12:25am PT
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... Nunes ... tweeted a photoshopped image of herself holding the championship belt while pushing a stroller with Rousey, as a baby, inside of it.
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