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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 20, 2016 - 11:30pm PT
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Once upon a time, when I was just a boy, men walked upon the moon. It happened on the night of July 20th, 1957, when NeilArmstrong and Buzz Aldrin landed the Lunar Excursion Module (LEM) during the Apollo 11 mission, and stepped out onto the surface of the Sea of Tranquility, about a quarter of a million miles from earth on the surface of the moon.
It's been forty four years since the last Apollo mission (Apollo 17) left the moon and closed that chapter on deep space manned exploration. On December 14th, 1972, Harry Schmitt and Gene Cernan climbed aboard the Lunar Excursion Module, blasted off from the moon's surface, docked with Ron Evans in the Command Module, jettisoned the LEM, and left for home.
A lot has happened since that time, but humanity has been spinning their wheels and making lots of trouble for themselves in the interim. Over the years our space program has lost much needed support from our government and no manned deep space missions have been attempted to the moon, or otherwise. The vision of many at NASA back in the 1960s took us to the moon. The moon landings, which were a technological marvel in and of themselves, were intended by scientists and astronauts as only a steppingstone. The real objective was Mars all along.
Nixon got spooked and dropped the ball after the near tragedy of Apollo 13, the American public and congressional naysayers began to question the risk vs reward of us venturing further or even of going back to the moon before the first six successful Apollo missions were even completed.
In the words of Elon Musk, "Somehow, we lost our way." But lately, he and others in the private sector have been sticking their necks out in order to put forth the funding, ideas, and research to make a Mars mission happen again. Now is the time to take the next big step, for the sake of our future, and the last best hope to secure the survival of our species if and when an extinction level event happens here on earth.
Links to some other manned Mars mission threads;
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2879285/Making-Humans-an-Interplanetary-Species
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2867290/SpaceX-explosion
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2815467/Lockheed-Martin-outlines-plan-to-seend-humans-to-Mars-orbit
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 20, 2016 - 11:57pm PT
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A nice vision, but I can't agree.
inevitably, it is an issue of funding. What has happened with the funding that would have been spent on Mars?
We've cut the worldwide poverty level in half.
We've cut the birthrate by 2/3
We've cut the number of mass starvation events to nearly nothing, other than in conflict zones.
There is a price to be paid, and those with the vision don't really want to focus on who loses out. Cancer research? Early childhood education?
There is a reasonable concern about our national debt. While I don't think of it as the disaster that some do, I don't really see adding an extra trillion or 3, to pay for this.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2016 - 12:21am PT
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The technology that was gained and required for the Gemini and Apollo programs to be successful changed human history. As a direct result, huge advancements were made in communications, robotics, computer hardware and software, nanotechnology, aeronautics, transportation and health care industries to name but a few.
Imagine, if you will, what new capabilities and technological advancements to our world would be gained by a successful manned Mars program. The difficulties of sending and returning manned missions to Mars are extremely difficult, but surmountable, but the technological payoff to our world might possibly be tenfold that of the Gemini/Apollo programs of our predecessors.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Dec 21, 2016 - 03:44am PT
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I thought I saw four not three responses ?
As well
Your up to the work of alien dis information
Wake up they need to get us to get them off the planet
We should resist the urge to try to reach beyond our
Blessed and devinilly wrought state.
Save the earth hunts spawns or the children of them till they puke back finds to bring clean water and facilities world wide
Look at the planets only to navigate , and given modern GPS ya can by-pass that
Oh it was 1969 (ne' '57)
But interesting intersection
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo-soyuz/astp_mission.html
I checked and found that 1957 was a huge year in The Space Man Show,
Hey, kids ! When You Grow Up
You Want To Be an Astronaut !
we were force fed that crap with patches,
the real thing like you saw on the space suits. . .. . .
( were they glued on? Mine would not Stick, they had to be sown, my sis said the outer layer of the space suit was kinda like an overall . . . Smart Cookie. )
A constant barrage of rocket oriented , space travel themes TV, shows
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11
toys
and plastic models it was the same time as
I got into and out of real wood planes,
"Servo n such" had a tee shirt
But
Yup, I bought in, for a few years ,
It was not the start of or the birth of
Fake news.
But, it was the start for me,
Of my real vision as to nothing
we ever are forced to belive
Is true.
Apparently the wife heard the Chinese have a manned Moon shot in the works?
I'll, check in a bit
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 21, 2016 - 05:47am PT
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Establishing a self-sufficient (well...) base on the Moon seems to me to be a much more realistic goal. Assuming there's ice on the darkside wouldn't that make more sense?
Seems that the distances involved with Mars just don't make it too viable as a first-shot at terraforming.
And we need a warp engine or else we're not going anywhere anyway... Gnome... get crackin' on that.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 21, 2016 - 07:04am PT
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We could occupy ourselves with war instead.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Dec 21, 2016 - 07:07am PT
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No. way too trickle down.
A mars trip will bring peace and solve world problems is a specious philosophy. The space race brought us ICBMs and Star Wars and a militarized satellite junkyard. The pipe dreams of the 'Me Generation' don't resonate with the working poor.
No. Thank. You.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2016 - 10:57am PT
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I should have assumed this thread would be a bust. Our species is stuck in a rut.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 21, 2016 - 11:03am PT
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I should have assumed this thread would be a bust. Our species is stuck in a rut.
Bushman, keep the charge.
We have a bunch of narrow-minded, short-term minded, debbie downers here. You'd think they were curlers and knitters instead of climbers.
The facts are simple: we're always going to have poverty, ecological boom and bust cycles, social collapses worldwide, etc in our future. They are just givens, fundamentals of Nature. They are not a reason or excuse, despite their tragic aspect, to pull back from advancing culture or civilization long-term which is what spacefaring and colonizing Mars will do.
Thank the Gods for the Elon Musks, Jeff Bezos', Richard Brandsons, Neil Armstrongs, Steve Wozniaks, von Brauns, etc...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mars_Project
W von Braun
Where there is no vision, the people perish. Onward Martians!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 21, 2016 - 11:24am PT
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Here's a nice summary of the chief obstacle...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_threat_from_cosmic_rays
Noteworthy:
"Several Apollo astronauts reported seeing light flashes, although the precise biological mechanisms responsible are unclear. Likely pathways include heavy ion interactions with retinal photoreceptors and Cherenkov radiation resulting from particle interactions within the vitreous humor."
...
"Stay open. Who knows? Lightning may strike."
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2016 - 11:38am PT
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Yes, the truth is out there. It is worrisome to me when I see so many who would think they already know the answers, so they might think; what's the point of spending more money on space?
So I grouse...
squeaky wheel + grease = motion.
Fire + ass = movement
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Dec 21, 2016 - 11:42am PT
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I'm for spending money on space exploration. But no reason to send people into space.
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c wilmot
climber
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Dec 21, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
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We have 20 trillion in debt. Much of it from the last eight years. Let's not send money to space. And that's Ignoring the massive impact on the environment. Why is it that the people vocal about climate change also promote gooing to mars?
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Dec 21, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
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Considering we have spent over 1.1 Trillion dollars on the second Iraq/Gulf War (and not even considering the ongoing fallout of that misadventure), spending tens of billions on human space exploration seems a much better allocation of resources.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
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Gooing places, it's what we doo...
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c wilmot
climber
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Dec 21, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
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Or we could focus on our crumbling infrastructure, rising inequality and massive homeless problem. lA times recently reported there being over 60,000 homeless kids in Los Angeles county alone. That is shameful. We have no humanity as a country, only greed and self desire
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Dec 21, 2016 - 12:47pm PT
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Maybe the US shouldnt go into space, but doesnt mean other nations shouldnt.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 21, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
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I guess being a Downer Debbie means not believing that money grows on trees.
I guess being a forward thinking futurist means believing you can have yer
cake and eat it, too. Life is about choices and choosing a daily free lunch
isn't a long term strategy as the national debt soars beyond belief, but then
I don't live with my mom so I guess I have a jaundiced view of reality.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 21, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
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I doubt the unrest will be civil.
We will put women on Mars, hopfullly in one piece.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Dec 21, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
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Space is hostile to you.
A life of confinement dying from the inside.
Solitary confinement.
This planet is our home.
Head in the sky while destroying your mother is just lunacy.
The rut is endless, thoughless growth
Without reason or wisdom
Why?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 21, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
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It cost zero money to go to Mars.
Anyone can go there anytime freely if so desires.
In your next life you will be born on Mars if you develop the consciousness in this life that you so desire to go there.
The foolish modern materialists unnecessarily waste the hard earned money of their people to mechanically go where the material body of the earthling can not naturally survive.
One must have martian body to live there although that is not the goal of the living being ever to reside on the material plane period.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 21, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
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The technology that was gained and required for the Gemini and Apollo programs to be successful changed human history. As a direct result, huge advancements were made in communications, robotics, computer hardware and software, nanotechnology, aeronautics, transportation and health care industries to name but a few.
perhaps. But you have to compare---to what?
What if that money had been spent on basic research? In Ed H's realm. We might have safe Nuclear energy now, as part of our energy bundle. We might have never developed the coal that we have, and shared it with other countries, heading off Global Warming.
It is easy to push for one's favorite things, as you are doing. And that's fair.
But the impetus for Apollo was war, the cold war. Times have changed, I think.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 21, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
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Yes and in our deeply divided country it will be done by educated people who firmly believe in science and the tools of logic, reason and experimentation.
Not
The science deniers who believe in the mumbo jumbo farcical biblical stories that even an educated seventh grader can see through.
Yeah there are two Americas and I am so thankful that I am not a part of the one steeped in false made up facts, conspiracy theories, racisim and plain old fashioned ignorance.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Dec 26, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
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Man by his very nature is an explorer. Columbus set sail in a westward direction, even in the face of others saying he'd fall off the edge of the Earth. As climbers, we go to Nepal, and Patagonia WILLINGLY in search of "the new." It's called in aviation circles: pushing the outside of the envelope. We've been stuck in Low Earth Orbit for 40 years, and NASA is just too chickenshit to push things ever outward and ever upward. We had the capability immediately after conclusion of Apollo, but Tricky Dick didn't have the necessary intestinal fortitude to continue. Result: von Braun resigned from NASA, and impetus towards Mars died in it's tracks. We were subsequently saddled with a hyper-expensive Space Shuttle program and the ISS as "something to justify the cost."
With the emergence of Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, we now have a couple of more visionary leaders of the pack. If nothing else, Musk and SpaceX have led the charge in reducing the cost of what will become the greatest voyage of exploration in the history of the world--the space journey to Mars.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 26, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
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Yes, the truth is out there. It is worrisome to me when I see so many who would think they already know the answers, so they might think; what's the point of spending more money on space?
And what, exactly, is the question(S)?
We had the capability immediately after conclusion of Apollo, but Tricky Dick didn't have the necessary intestinal fortitude to continue.
Yeah, he didn't have anything occupying his attention---like Viet Nam. Instead of wasting his time and money, he should have just left all the GI's there, I guess you are saying.
There is always a choice.
Man by his very nature is an explorer. Columbus set sail in a westward direction, even in the face of others saying he'd fall off the edge of the Earth. As climbers, we go to Nepal, and Patagonia WILLINGLY in search of "the new." It's called in aviation circles: pushing the outside of the envelope.
SOME do, but nowhere near the vast majority. Man, by his very nature is a SURVIVOR, which means by it's very nature not taking chances. There are always some that do, but does it mean that the vast majority of non-risk takers, they should fund the fun and entertainment of the explorers? After all, we gave you the Sierra, Denali, private airplanes, SCUBA, hiking boots.....
With the emergence of Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, we now have a couple of more visionary leaders of the pack. If nothing else, Musk and SpaceX have led the charge in reducing the cost of what will become the greatest voyage of exploration in the history of the world--the space journey to Mars.
If you don't mind getting blown up.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Dec 26, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
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Whitey's on Mars soon . . . I still can't pay my doctor bill (with Whitey on Mars).
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Dec 26, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
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Go fracking there!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 27, 2016 - 06:56pm PT
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Passengers (2016)
See it in 3D, treat yourself, it is VERY good!
A commentator at imdb said do not listen to a couple professional critics re this movie who dissed it. I am glad I took this commentator's advice.
Visuals were stunning. Many concepts of the storyline were very interesting and thought-provoking. I might even see it again before the dvd release.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1355644/?ref_=nv_sr_1
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Dec 27, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
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What if the Bazillionaires are going into Space just so they can remodel their houses with Martian granite counter tops in the kitchen and a Moon Rock fireplace for the living room?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 27, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
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The Chinese are gonna beat us to Mars. I say let 'em.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 27, 2016 - 10:43pm PT
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I think Mars is going to continue to be there for a few more million years. What's the hurry?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 27, 2016 - 11:37pm PT
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Mars ain't deep space. It's just around the corner.
Stoopid Americans.
WBraun
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I AM sure we will go to Mars. I just don't think in the next hundred years.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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I would like to invest in a time share on mars one day
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I would like to invest in a time share on mars one day
I am absolutely certain that you could find someone who would sell you one... probably right now.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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I know a realtor....
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 18, 2017 - 10:44am PT
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We can no longer afford school lunches, Meals On Wheels or apparently the EPA.
Sorry Mars...
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Mar 19, 2017 - 01:03pm PT
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Just don't expect NASA to lead the way; the agency has become ultra risk averse and has spread their allocated money around to far too many internal departments with pet projects designed to keep a lot of engineers employed. The charge will be led by the entrepreneurial types, such as Bezos an Musk. Overall, the necessary hardware is available or will be, soon. Another problem NASA has is the ueber expensive SLS system--a rocket currently without a mission. The 2018 budget cancels the cockamamie asteroid retrieval mission, and about the only thing left for it is a redux of Apollo 8, the lunar circumnavigation done back in 1968. The problem with a Mars expedition is not so much getting there, but getting back and having a base of operations for time between Hohmann transfer windows (the minimum energy elliptical trajectories flown by the spacecraft). A real scientific expedition to Mars will involve a total time commitment of between 30 and 34 months, depending on which trajectories and delta V's from the planetary orbits are selected (or are mandated by the vehicle designs). In a discussion with several retired aerospace engineers on the Mars Society website, the major problem is the fuels utilized by current heavy lift space vehicles. The fuel currently in use by SpaceX is RP-1, a rocket fuel grade ultra refined kerosene. In a deep space long duration flight, it slowly gels to the consistency of hard Jello due to the temperatures to which it's exposed. The answer is the hypergolic combination of Monomethyl Hydrazine (MMH), and dinitrogen tetroxide (NTO). Plenty of thrust generated by these components, but not currently favored by US space industry. The Russians use these compounds in their Proton M rocket in all 4 stages. A cooperative vehicle using USA heavy lifters and Russian upper stages could easily propel a 20 metric tonne spacecraft to Mars. It could even be safely landed along with 2 years supplies for a crew of 4. The return ticket is the problem.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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Mar 20, 2017 - 10:13pm PT
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Honestly I think we came from mars but we f*#ked it long ago and had to abandoned it.Now we are planning to go back to jump start it.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2017 - 08:29am PT
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The case for Mars...again.
Weigh the cost of human lives and planetary resources squandered on war against the cost of manned space travel and the answer becomes easy. But convincing human civilization that space travel will always be a unifying endeavor is the hard part. When comparing the destructive consequences of tribal conflict to the benefits of exploration and scientific innovation, for most people you would think it would be a no brainer. Think again.
A few weeks ago I had I vivid nightmare about nuclear annihilation. It was terrifying. Last night I dreamed that almost everyone on earth simultaneously tuned into a live feed of a monumental event..
Astronauts were leaving the Mars atmosphere after a long and death defying mission. Then they were making a final burn to leave a Mars orbit for their return trip home.
To my mind at first it felt like an everyday occurrence. But then I realized that it would mark the most important achievement in human history during my lifetime. When I've dreamed a dream, then tried to live it, it has always been the most difficult thing. Life always gets in the way.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 29, 2017 - 12:08pm PT
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Weigh the cost of human lives and planetary resources squandered on war against the cost of manned space travel and the answer becomes easy.
Nice comparison, if only it were true. It is not.
War will always come FIRST in any equation, because it is tied up in the existence of the countries involved.
So what will be sacrificed is all of the other things that make like worth living.
Would you sell off Yos to fund a mars mission?
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Apr 29, 2017 - 07:40pm PT
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Those of you that want to travel in space, please go right ahead.
I like it right here on earth.
(Though I admire the astronauts, they're all BOLD)!
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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Apr 29, 2017 - 07:51pm PT
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Brokedownclimber posted:
The return ticket is the problem.
Indeed - hence the appeal of robotic missions.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mars is not deep space.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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We can't even set up a self sustaining human life habitat system at the bottom of the ocean or on the South Pole, so I'm skeptical if it's going to be so easy on Mars
The expense would be huge.
I sure wouldn't want to go to Mars, nor the bottom of the ocean or the South Pole
As long as Republicans are in charge, we might as well forget about any true science being funded, maybe they will fund fake science to make the Oil Companies feel less threatened by those nasty libs
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Steven Hawking is wrong
It will always be easier to survive on earth no matter how bad it gets here
It will never be so bad that we have to leave the planet to survive
and even if we did set up on another planet, our existence there would be less survivable and have less of a chance on long term survivability than on a wrecked planet earth.
Nuclear Holocaust?
It's easier to let the dust settle, then have short cancer ridden life spans than live on Cosmic Ray engulfed planet with no air, food, fuel or running water.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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With climate change, overdue asteroid strikes, epidemics and population growth, our own planet is increasingly precarious. I suspect not even the most extreme predictions of the effects of climate change predict a year 2117 climate nearly as bad as Mars'.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Billionaires can go to Mars (and maybe stay there!), but not on the public's money. Billionaires are taking even more of our money now! We have plenty of more worthwhile needs to take care of here on earth, like clean air and water as well as affordable healthcare, quality education, and economic & political justice for all.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Enjoy the trip, send me a post card. But don't expect me to help pay or think yer cool.
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WBraun
climber
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Let's send all those nutcases to mars to fight out their stoopid wars and ideas.
The earth can then become peaceful once again.
Go now!!!! do not wait, go now!!!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Another here: NASA astronaut who spent a year in space now has different DNA from his twin
Altered genes are bad enough and this doesn't take into account gene expression or epigenetic effects. It's a good indicator of how completely wedded to this planetary ecology we are, that we cannot long survive without it, and cannot take it with us. And really, if we can't take better care of this planet the last thing the universe needs is us galavanting around ruining other places.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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BACK to Deep space?
The only thing we even got close to interstellar space, intergalactic space, or extragalactic space is one little Voyager that is still in the Oort Cloud.
It’s not even past the outer orbit of Sedna.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Steven Hawking is wrong
It will always be easier to survive on earth no matter how bad it gets here
What’s your plan for living inside a red giant star?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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All things must pass...
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Altered genes are bad enough and this doesn't take into account gene expression or epigenetic effects. It's a good indicator of how completely wedded to this planetary ecology we are, that we cannot long survive without it, and cannot take it with us. And really, if we can't take better care of this planet the last thing the universe needs is us galavanting around ruining other places. -healyje
1. How are "altered genes bad enough" if this doesn't take into account gene expression?
2. "It's a good indicator of how completely wedded to this planetary ecology we are." No disagreement here. So what's the inference or implication? We're wedded here, so spacefaring and further planetary colonies are silly stupid... feckless... or to use another's term.... wasteful?
What if, after some actual experience in Mars colonization, we learn that a full 3% of the population isn't affected by gene alternation due to lower gravity? Wouldn't that be something!
4. "if we can't take better care of this planet the last thing the universe needs is us galavanting around ruining other places."
Really if I hear this notion one more time, I'm going to puke. One, there's no reason we can't do both; two, nobody in the pro-spacefaring camp seriously says, Let's colonize Mars, then we can trash this one. This is Strawman put forth by partisans, idiots, trolls or debbie downers.
Imagine 100k years ago our ancestors saying, if we can't take better care of Timbuktu, the last thing the Earth needs is us gallivanting around ruining other places.
The idea of further spacefaring... with a few planetary colonies thrown in... is an exciting prospect beginning with the extra insights and opportunities (presently unknown) these activities might (Edit: would almost certainly) afford.
Last but not least: This would make us a multiplanentary species. I for one would think that's pretty cool. From pond scum to multiplanetary species. Wow!
"Wasteful"
lol
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clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
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Astronomers hatch plan to move Earth's orbit from warming sun
By Dennis Newman
(CNN) -- A group of astronomers has come up with a plan they claim will save life on Earth from an early demise. All it takes, they say, is moving the planet into a different orbit.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/02/05/earth.move/
The same technique could be used to move Venus or Mars into favorable orbits.
Venus could be moved into Earth's orbit. There's plenty of room to avoid interfering with the Earth, for example put it on the other side of the Sun. First put Venus into a highly elliptical orbit outside the planetary plane to avoid interfering with the Earth and to swing it thru the Sun's atmosphere to scour off all the troublesome carbon dioxide. Once the period of Venus is increased to 365 days, work it into Earth's orbit. Then pelt it with comets for enough water and nitrogen to terraform it. Or you might want to mine the CO2 using giant dirigibles, shooting it into a collecting station in geostationary orbit that splits it into carbon and oxygen, keeping the carbon and sending oxygen back to Venus.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Sign me up if there are plenty of these on Mars:
All the Mars bars you can eat!!!
And look, this is how they dress there:
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Mar 10, 2018 - 08:34am PT
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How timely, happening today...
Beyond the Cradle 2018: Envisioning a New Space Age
The entire program is being livestreamed, I will try to watch later.
This is interesting if not silly...
"I encourage everyone to not use the word 'colonialization' when talking about space." -Danielle Wood.
https://www.media.mit.edu/events/beyond-the-cradle-2018/
#SpaceExploration
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 10, 2018 - 09:19am PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
so many anachronistic allusions... but you get the idea...
seemed to have had an optimistic time-line in terms of space exploration.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Mar 10, 2018 - 09:43pm PT
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^^ Or we're the first.
The universe is 13.7B years old, Earth is 4.5B. Given that there must have been stars that went through at least one entire life cycle to create the complex elements needed for life, and how many things needed to happen to get to "intelligent" life, I wouldn't be surprised if we are the first in our galaxy anyway. And 5,000 years seems short. Humans have been around for 200,000 years and we've only left the planet about 60 years ago. And interstellar distances are vast, it could take 10s of thousands of years to get anywhere.
If, and that's a big if, humanity is around long enough I think we will populate other planets. It will take hundreds of years just to send probes and find other planets with life (I would guess they are out there, and I'd guess simpler life is much more prevalent and "intelligent" life is VERY rare, when you see how close homo sapiens came to extinction your realize how lucky we are to be here). And then I wouldn't be surprised if it will take putting people into suspended animation on a one way trip to other systems. But there are people that will volunteer for that. People will give up their lives on Earth and most everyone they now for the chance to explore and make history.
I don't know what's more daunting, creating a magnetic shield and terraforming Mars, or the vast interstellar distances to get other systems that may have already viable planets.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 11, 2018 - 04:00am PT
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It also could be that the window between broadcasting the first I love Lucy show and self distructing is only one or two hundred years...
Maybe .001% of the life span of our species.
That wouldn’t leave much time for a civilization to leave a mark.
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stay norwegian. good boy
climber
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Mar 11, 2018 - 11:26am PT
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we are atoms.
our planet is a cell.
our galaxy is one appendage of a greater body.
our universe is the living organism among a large populace of other living organisms.
inversely, we are a universe.
our cells are planets.
our atoms, inner-mankind.
and each of our atoms
are looking within themselves
and have discovered their own cells,
and those cell's atoms.
which are just down-sized infinities.
only according to our position within relativity
can we estimate god.
infinity extends inward and outward from us
never arriving at a sum of moments.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2018 - 01:25pm PT
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Our Mind is Waiting
Floating isn’t natural
Waiting isn’t normal
I like when things go my way
They often tell me
They never will
Let’s go back
Go back before
Back before something happens
It’s too late now
It always will be
Let's go back to deep space
Back to where we came from
Mars is waiting
Our mind is waiting
If it will
Floating isn’t natural
Waiting isn’t normal
I like when things go my way
They often tell me
They never will
-bushman
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Mar 11, 2018 - 01:30pm PT
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Norwegian!!! He's Back! Epic. This place just got better
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 11, 2018 - 02:02pm PT
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there is a metric which states a spacefairing race should only take about 5000 years to colonize a galaxy
since we find no evidence of gatekeepers here in our own solar system it shows that all the myriad of civilizations which have been born in our galaxy have not survived to do this
the pattern is clear
civilization don't survive long enough to survive...
The 5000 years sounds short and it is not a given that any gatekeepers would automatically let their presence be known.
But from what I have read, simple life probably gets started rather easily and probably exists all over the galaxy. More complex life is another story. Single cell life shows up on earth pretty soon after the planet is cool enough for it to happen. And then life stayed at the level of a single cell for billions of years before multicellular life showed up.
It is probably doubtful that very many planetary systems have stable conditions for that long. For instance, a supernova that was too close by would fry the planet and kill all life off. So it is not surprising that our planet, that hit the complicated life jackpot, is on the outer edge of the galaxy where there are fewer stars and they are further apart.
It is probably really rare for a planet to have such a stable climate for billions and billions years.
So it is not clear whether there has been many civilizations comparable to our own that self-destructed before colonizing the galaxy, or that there have been few to none civilizations before our own.
On the other hand, I don't think our current civilization is very stable. I would say that the chance of our descendants ever making it to another star system is slim to none but that probably overstates our odds.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 11, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
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Our space endeavors are merely our pathetic technological variation on a theme of Nero’s fiddling.
Burn, baby, burn!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 11, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
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We can’t stop screwing this planet. Why would it be different anywhere else?
The only reasonable argument is finding an escape route in case another extinction level asteroid crosses our path.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 11, 2018 - 02:30pm PT
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Pretty presumptuous to assume that we deserve to survive after we’ve driven so many other species extinct. Karma’s a bitch! What did a Dodo ever do to you?
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 11, 2018 - 03:15pm PT
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“Deserve’s got nuthin to do with it”
William Munny
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Mar 11, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
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Much handwringing in the Celestially Obsessed Crowd.
Philosophically speaking, I'd prefer that we master our craft before selling our goods down the river.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jul 26, 2018 - 08:33am PT
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You all have probably heard about it already: Huge body of water just found on Mars. So I post just for reference to it.
http://www.iflscience.com/space/weve-finally-found-actual-liquid-water-on-mars/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/science/mars-liquid-alien-life.html
Amazing. Best venue yet for possible life.
Are we just ONE voice in the cosmic fugue? Or just ONE in our solar system?
Or might there be TWO?
...
"One voice" (Sagan) refers to our (Earth's) unique, singular genetic code.
oh please!
So bogus,,FAKE NEWS
A sonar/radar whateve' 'dar, was used to Not see,
but did give rise to the idea that a mile deep void holds water? something? any sort of anything,
other than a different density.
And
that this, as shown by the system, that is only 70/30
when used on land vs the polar ice off the shore of the known landmass, ensures nothing;
no true "Find" of liquid, just an unexplained reflection that is differing in density from the surrounding rock
but by all means sign up, & go . . . ., trumputin is stealing your grandchildren's future any way
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