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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 29, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
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I am looking for contact info for Todd S. Thompson and Phil Koch. They are the two living (assume, but could be wrong) members of the group that did the first ascent of the north ridge of Mt Kennedy in 1968.
Joe Faint was on that trip--he's been gone a while and, as far as I can tell, never spoke of his time on that trip.
The fourth guy, David Seidman, was lost in an avy (with many others) on Dhauligiri in '69.
This is for a piece that I'm writing. Lots of cold trails, so far; kind of surprising in the google-era.
Thanks. PM me if you know anything--
David Stevenson
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 29, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
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What stunning ridgeline!
I've seen some summit push blowouts for sure, but dayamn!
Faint was the right name for the dude.
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
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No, Guido is a different Joe. Friend of Faint's, actually!
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
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Dang, down to the end of page 2 after a little over 24 hours. No one knows these guys? Dartmouth fellas, I think. Given the number of geezers here (of which I count myself!) I was more hopeful! Thanks, won't bump again.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 30, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
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Don't stop bumping! Our matrons only allow some of us limited intardnet privileges so by keeping it front and center you might be pleasantly surprised. :-)
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Nov 30, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
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Bump at will. This post is front page news.
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
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Great pic, GCF, thanks. Yeah, the n ridge on Kennedy is a helluva line. Was on 2nd ascent on '77. Need to scan those slides!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 30, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
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Trying to find old climbers?
You've come to the right place son!
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
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GCF: "a couple of us were too wimpy for that." Ha! You and EVERYONE else!
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
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That may be the last photo of them. Historic. Godspeed Dave and Catherine~
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 30, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
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From Anchorage eh? Isn't that a suburb of Eagle River?
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Rick Linkert
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills CA
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Nov 30, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
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Dolomite
Wow! That is a name from the past. I was introduced to Todd Thompson by Doug Tompkins at the North Face Palo Alto as a high school kid. Todd was a hot climber from Dartmouth with some impressive alpine ascents. I climbed Lower Spire with him in the '67 - '68 time frame. He flaked out the ropes in the Cathedral Spires turn-out to deal with the kinks. Meanwhile a guy and his wife from somewhere in the Midwest did a sweeping GS turn to a stop over our ropes. We stood there stunned - Todd went nuts but the folks had no idea why the big fuss. We went ahead and used the ropes but it gave me frequent pause on the climb. Hope Todd is doing well.
Rick
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Nov 30, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
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You might try contacting David Roberts(Mountain of My Fear). Not sure if he can help, but might be worth a shot.
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
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Cool story, Rich! But where is Todd now!? I'll ask Roberts--we're friends! But I don't think he'll know. Roper doesn't know. And Christian Beckwith--editor of the AAJ when TT finally reported on the first ascent (of n. ridge) 29 years after the fact (!!) doesn't have any contact info either. And, Doug Robinson, a good friend of Faint's, didn't even know Joe was on Kennedy! It's kind of an interesting dead end, so far!
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Nov 30, 2016 - 11:47pm PT
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"Bravecowboy". Why are you calling out Joe Faint?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 30, 2016 - 11:58pm PT
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I'd be happy to scan slides if that helps... for free...
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Dolomite. Have you tried Dartmouth alumni organizations? They are very good and persistent at tracking folks down--trying to get donations from them. I knew both vaguely BITD (as well as Joe Faint)but have no idea of their current whereabouts. I do have s very vague, and very possibly erroneous, 'memory' of hearing that Thompson may have passed on quite a while ago.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Great thread
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Andy Middleton
Trad climber
Cow Hampshire
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I saw Phil about 10 years ago... at the time he was still working for Apple in Palo Alto, but spending most of his time in Maine.... Mt Dessert i think.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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GCF.... that is a really cool photo.... please find the photo of Dave and Catherine and post.
That would be supertopo gold.
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2016 - 11:18am PT
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Thanks, Andy, that may well be enough info to have found Phil. And, Alan, I did contact Dartmouth. Not surprisingly (because I too work at a university) FERPA laws prevent revealing any personal info. But, if they were dead, that they could tell me. I was happy to find out that Dartmouth knows them to both be alive.
Yes, GCF, find that photo of the Cheese and Catherine! That's some real history. Thanks for the help everyone~
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
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Thanks Inthefog. I tried there, but didn't see it. 18 friends, last post in 2012, but maybe he checks--that's him for sure!
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IntheFog
climber
Mostly the next place
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You are welcome.
I'd start with his daughters, who are FB friends with him. They've listed employers, so if you search on name + employer, you could probably get email addresses for at least one of them pretty quickly.
You could also try friending him on FB, although he might not see that for a while.
He's got a blog for his sailing adventures. Maybe you can find a hometown or email there:
http://voyageofelcano.blogspot.com/#!/
PS Phil Koch retired from Apple and moved to Maine several years ago.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Bravecowboy
Still waiting for an explanation of why you are slagging Joe Faint. I see from your profile that you have a list of 4511 posts. Time for #4512 with either an explanation or an apology.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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hamie, apologies for keeping you waiting - I was in the mountains rock climbing today.
You seem concerned with my post count; that must be tough.
I am sorry to offend your sense of things, hamie.
from the linked aac writeup: ... who expressed more concern with his sock inventory than the proposed route. In the end, to our discredit and his, we connected with Joe Faint
bailing at the crux of difficulties after committing to the line, leaving three of his mates a two-man tent and taking the remaining two-man tent to himself. rapping down and then putting up a HELP sign in the snow against the wishes of his partners. As Thompson wrote, the [help] sign violated the code of self-reliance that we followed.
I don't know the dude from Mike Tyson, but it seems to me that I'd be somewhat disgruntled if a partner of mine did these things to me. I suspect stronger epithets than "faint" might've been applied to him by the partners he ditched. What about you?
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Bravecowboy.
"What about me?" Well, where to start.......
A long time ago Joe Faint was a friend and climbing partner of mine. For 6 weeks or so we shared an extended site in the old climbers' campground at Jenny Lake in the Tetons, with several other guys and gals who had hitched up from the Valley. Fun times. We did a number of climbs together, including the second one day ascent of the north face of the Grand. The first was by Pete Sinclair.
Joe was a serious and accomplished mountaineer and rock climber. As mentioned in the article he made the FA of the north face of Assiniboine (Canada's Matterhorn) with Chouinard and Chris Jones. He also made the FA of at least one Grade VI in the Valley with Harding and Rowell. The climbing credentials of the other team members are less clear. Joe was very much a "dirt-bag" climber, although that term is quite meaningless today.
The article referred to starts by stating "They tell their story". In fact only Thompson tells HIS version of the story. The section quoted by you refers to a concern about a sock inventory. You seem to imply that this referred to Joe, while it was about an unnamed Argentinian climber.
We do not know why Joe decided to descend on his own. Reference is made to his "apparent desperation". ???????? He could have had many reasons. Concern about the proposed route, snow conditions, weather, rock or ice fall, the skill levels and experience of his partners, or perhaps that subconscious feeling that mountaineers sometimes get that "something" is not right?
My guess is that this was likely a case of extreme personality conflict. Reference is made to his "isolation". Joe was a dirt-bag who supported himself and paid his own bills. His partners attended an Ivy League institute, Dartmouth College "that great college". They belonged to fraternities, partied hard, drove Triumph TR-4s and went on extended and expensive climbing trips during the summer, and were several years younger and less experienced. When I knew Joe he did not own a car, let alone an expensive imported British sports car.
Thompson also had a very high opinion of himself and his abilities. He talks of "willing apprentices", and "we should have trusted ourselves to do all the leading". Then at the very end he and Seidman made a quick dash to the summit, leaving the 4th member at the high camp. Nice.
The only thing which surprises me about this story is that Joe ever agreed to take part in an Ivy League expedition in the first place.
Cowboy, I'm a bit jealous. You're rock climbing in the mountains, while our mountains have been under several feet of snow for a while now. We have to pull on plastic!
Stay safe.
H.
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IntheFog
climber
Mostly the next place
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I have no dog in this fight, but I must have read a different article than either Cowboy or Hamie. In the article I read, Thompson is clear that he, Koch & Seidman did not treat Faint well -- his word for the Dartmouth boys' behavior is "ugly." He goes on to say their behavior was a (the?) reason for Faint leaving the expedition. If he slags anyone, it's himself and Seidman, not Faint. He certainly doesn't call out Faint as faint.
Here is what he says about the group dynamics:
"Three people who know each other well and share an objective can exclude a willing fourth. It is common behavior on school playgrounds—and ugly. When the crisis came late in the climb, Seidman and I refused to acknowledge Faint’s existence...."
As for the "code of self-reliance," Thompson clearly doesn't accuse Faint of violating it by writing "HELP" in the snow. His point is that he and his friends were so young they couldn't see their "role in driving a seasoned climber to this extreme of despair." Instead of seeing how "ugly" they'd been, they "only thought of the embarrassment and disgrace that an unnecessary, full-scale rescue in that remote place would bring on the expedition." In other words, their immaturity kept T, S & K from seeing Faint's "HELP" as what it was: A sign of their failure as team-mates. They were so callow they "could only think that the sign violated the code of self-reliance that we followed."
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Hamie, I appreciate your sharing of very pertinent experience.
It does sound like the expedition dynamic was solidly piled against Faint; I obviously commented blind besides the one source, written by his antagonists.
The bailing thing and the rescue beaconing sans group agreement really chapped my ass. Perhaps this relates to some recent mid-pitch blowouts I have enjoyed.
Certainly Joe Faint was a harder dude than most, especially m'self. Dick move to just bail though.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Two very different accounts of the same trip by the same writer. Peculiar. I can imagine Joe lying in the tent, and thinking "WTF am I doing here, with these guys?"
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2016 - 09:51am PT
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Hamie's last post states quite precisely what my original interest in this is. I know plenty of guys who climbed with Faint and all claim he was a fine climber and great friend. His record speaks for itself. Yet, he never seemed to speak, even to his best friends, about Kennedy.
Thompson's account is very long and comes almost thirty years after the fact, yet it seems to me that for all its word count, leaves a lot out. Such as, for example, the claim in the brief original AAJ account that they used 8,000 feet of fixed rope, which is basically every inch of the route.
Have always wondered what the deal was on this climb.
Sat this thread out yesterday in surgery. Can ski again on January 2.
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GLee
Social climber
Montucky
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Mr Dolomite,
I've enjoyed reading all the responses on your thread, and thought that I would see what I might find for Audrey Thompson, so I Googled 'Blue Leaf Enviromental'.
And here is what I came up with:
From Blue Leaf Environmental (http://blueleafenviro.com/);:
Blue Leaf Personnel Directory
Office: (509) 210-7424
Audrey Thompson: athompson@blueleafenviro.com
Best regards,
GLee
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Dec 18, 2016 - 02:05am PT
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hey there say, ... just a bump...
in case it is still needed... :)
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