Fidel Castro, RIP

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Messages 1 - 116 of total 116 in this topic
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 25, 2016 - 09:52pm PT
He died.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 25, 2016 - 10:04pm PT
Decent beard, otherwise way over-rated, except as a hypocrite.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 25, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
RiP, Fidel.



10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 25, 2016 - 10:27pm PT
Decent beard, otherwise way over-rated, except as a hypocrite.

Kind of like many US presidents in the 19th century
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Nov 25, 2016 - 11:10pm PT


RIP!
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Nov 25, 2016 - 11:18pm PT
Certainly twisted Jack Kennedy's tail (but the act went down from there).
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Nov 25, 2016 - 11:25pm PT

Times change

Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
Nov 25, 2016 - 11:38pm PT
I always wonder if he was behind Che Guevara getting killed.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Nov 26, 2016 - 12:00am PT

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 26, 2016 - 07:33am PT
There was another Cuba once.[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fidelo, besame el culo, por favor.
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:15am PT
Didn't even climb, eh?

Tough crowd.

Viva Che?

Castro, Che, Kissinger, Unidentified (Possibly Vincent Price)



donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:19am PT
You have to admire the guy....he thumbed his nose at the American colossus, just ninety miles away, for well over half a century.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:20am PT
Shove it, Jim. He was a sh#t of the first order and what he did to his country and his people is a crime.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:22am PT
50 years of thumbing his nose at the US didn't do his people much good. Thousands killed, tens of thousands jailed, 're-education camps' for homosexuals - what a guy!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:24am PT
I say again....you have to admire the guy. Now that's an order private!
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:38am PT
're-education camps' for homosexuals - what a guy!

Sounds like Ted Cruz, or Mike Pence.
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:40am PT
Admire a murderous dictator?

Unbelievable.


Putin, the guy your boy admires,. right.

UNBELIEVABLE

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:40am PT
Come on Cragman...Che was way overrated but Fidel had some starch in his shirt....besides, given some of the people you admire, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:47am PT
And Bolshies love to ignore reality.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:51am PT
Words like "reality" and "history" mean many different things to different people.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:51am PT
I suppose you also admire Nicolas Maduro? He thumbs his nose at the US too.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:52am PT
Reality -1959 infant mortality rate in Cube before Fidel 3rd highest in the world, illiteracy rate among the lowest in the world. By 1969 Cube had & still has one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the world & one of the highest literacy rates.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:59am PT
Reality -1959 infant mortality rate in Cube before Fidel 3rd highest in the world, illiteracy rate among the lowest in the world. By 1969 Cube had & still has one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the world & one of the highest literacy rates.

In 2011, the literacy rate in Cuba was 99.8%.

I always like how conservatives pick and choose which dictator to like.

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:04am PT

Cuba's surprisingly cost-effective healthcare: http://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2014/12/22/cuba-cost-effective-healthcare/#51b53cac5990
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:22am PT
Given the context, when it comes to picking and choosing which dictators to support, I think the following photo is much more appropiate:


Although, in all fairness, support was finally withdrawn in late 1958, but by then the damage had been done. Hopefully now, 58 years later, scars will slowly heal.
c wilmot

climber
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:25am PT
The people of Venezuela have provided poor Americans heating oil for many years.Go figure. Americans are pretty blind to the horrors we cause worldwide as well. In terms of creating human suffering Fidel was a small fish compared to US presidents
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:31am PT
I admire their healthcare and education system.

I wonder how many of the negative aspects of their government were a "necessary evil" to resist the meddling of USA, which was very threatened by the possibility of a functional government not worshipping money above humanity.

I can't really make judgments beyond that because I don't have sufficient info.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:57am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 26, 2016 - 10:42am PT
The number of deaths is controverisal to say the least., but it doesn't look like Castro is even in the ballpark with Truman.

The Harvard-trained scholar Armando Lago, in his book The Black Book of Communism, first published in French, (1997) then in English 1999, made an attempt to list Castro’s deaths since 1959. So far the deaths of 97,000 persons have been named, each confirmed by at least two sources. Some 30,000 executed by firing squad, 2,000 extra-judicial assassinations, 5,000 deaths in prison due to beating by guards and denial of medical care and 60,000 deaths while trying to escape Cuba by sea. According to Dr. Lago's and his ongoing-research partner, Cuba Archive President Maria Werlau, 78,000 innocents may have died trying to flee the dictatorship. Another 5,300 are known to have lost their lives fighting communism in the Escambray Mountains (mostly peasant farmers and their children) and at the Bay of Pigs. Another estimated 14,000 Cubans were killed in Fidel's revolutionary adventures abroad, most notably his dispatch of 50,000 soldiers to Angola in the 1980s to help the Soviet-backed regime fight off the Unita insurgency. Their 2005 total ranges between 90,827 and 102,722 deaths. The estimates of Cubans killed range from 35,000 to 141,000 (1959-1987) according to and available on the site of R. J. Rummel-University of Hawaii, “Power Kills.”
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Nov 26, 2016 - 11:22am PT

Today, the world marks the passing of a brutal dictator who oppressed his own people for nearly six decades. Fidel Castro’s legacy is one of firing squads, theft, unimaginable suffering, poverty and the denial of fundamental human rights.

While Cuba remains a totalitarian island, it is my hope that today marks a move away from the horrors endured for too long, and toward a future in which the wonderful Cuban people finally live in the freedom they so richly deserve.

Though the tragedies, deaths and pain caused by Fidel Castro cannot be erased, our administration will do all it can to ensure the Cuban people can finally begin their journey toward prosperity and liberty. I join the many Cuban Americans who supported me so greatly in the presidential campaign, including the Brigade 2506 Veterans Association that endorsed me, with the hope of one day soon seeing a free Cuba.

Donald J. Trump
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Nov 26, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
Always nice to have a perspective from one who actually knew Fidel. From our own Hope Meeks, of Camp 4 in the early 60s and Jim Baldwin's lady. One in a million!

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2437746/Hope-Meek-has-Died


10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 26, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
http://www.globalresearch.ca/from-vietnam-to-afghanistan-america-and-the-dictators/18714
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Nov 26, 2016 - 12:25pm PT

My thought too, Kingtut. The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle...

Could be wrong of course...

In 50 years time we'll see someone write a Cuban history, involving Castro, to be trusted. Trusting current Americans writing Cuban history is stoopeed of course...
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 26, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
It's surreal listening to DT's message after how he has expressed his disdain for the citizens of Mexico.

Smacks of hypocrisy and taking advantage.



I despise his masquerade, the dishonest way he poses himself.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 26, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
He lived like a king in one of the world's poorest countries and hardly anyone spoke out against him.
Ya gotta admire that.
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 26, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
Amen it's always about Trump.

I wonder how many hotels in South America Castro actually owned.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Nov 26, 2016 - 01:07pm PT

Before the revolution Cuba had started to degenerate into an American entertainment park and bordello...

And Cuba in South America - well... hotels, casinos and bordellos are not the structures they are providing:

"Cuba has a long-standing history of international volunteerism and medical diplomacy, via its  “ejército de batas blancas” (army of white coats). Cuba has 50,000 health care workers deployed throughout the world, both in underserved areas and as emergency response teams.

For example, Cubans have provided cataract surgery and treatments throughout South America, restoring vision to almost 3.5 million over the years, in exchange receiving political capital, oil subsidies, and funding. They have provided care as well in fighting malaria in Africa, and were ready to help in Haiti after the earthquake and subsequent cholera epidemic. In fact, Ban Ki-moon, Secretary General of the United Nations, stated, “They are always the first to arrive and the last to leave. They remain in place after the crises. Cuba can be proud of its health care system, a model for many countries.“
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 26, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
TGT2,
My "PC" way of saying he was a hypocritical tyrant who murdered or jailed critics.

Edit: Didn't Al Capone hand out free holiday turkeys to poor people?
What a guy
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Nov 26, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
Batista's troops protecting US interests in 1956


At the beginning of 1959 United States companies owned about 40 percent of the Cuban sugar lands—almost all the cattle ranches—90 percent of the mines and mineral concessions—80 percent of the utilities—practically all the oil industry—and supplied two-thirds of Cuba's imports.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Nov 26, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
Tut,

That others were as bad, or worse, does not make Castro palatable. He was a top drawer douchbag. As soon as he stole from his citizens (wealthy or not) or lined up the first guy in a firing squad, any reasonable person would have rightfully questioned the aims of his revolution, which was little more than a proxy for keeping power. One also has to question his motives in seeing the rest of the world progress past him while keeping his citizens in isolation while he and party members no doubt lived as an oligarchy. Though I consider someone like Dick Cheney as a far more reprehensible human being, I fully understand the celebrations now going on in Miami.
ecdh

climber
the east
Nov 26, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
One needs to discern what 'rates' of literacy and infant mortality are measured by. Not always consistent. Easily manipulated. relative to other factors. usually a red herring.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Nov 26, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
I think this thread is starting to give me understanding of the so-called logic behind the progressive idiots in our country. And I like it even less now.

yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Nov 26, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
I think it's important to realize that, to a large extent, Castro was a creation of American policy in Cuba. He never would have come to be, maintained power for more than two generations and ended up as the single most influential political symbol in all of Latin America since independence from Spain, had the US not planted the seeds and then continued to fertilize them for years. He was just about everything everyone says here: a brutal dictator, a man obsessed with eternal power at all costs, a leader who oversaw real advances in medicine, education, and art for the common man in Cuba, a friend of the Soviets who sought to violently export revolution, a leader who sent doctors and teachers to help out his tribe of Latin Americans. Whether the symbol is right or wrong, to a huge part of Latin America, Castro is the emblem of how the little guy can make good on his own, hold out against the awesome might of the US and give the finger to Uncle Sam. Like it or not, that fact is real. Sure, the Cubans in Miami danced on his grave. For the most part they are descendents of people who benefited from Batista's policies and US imperialism or groups who were persecuted by Castro. Castro still had plenty of fans, especially amongst the older generation, in Cuba. Not to mention his massive influence in the rest of Latin America. I think it's just too bad that the US stood alone for so long, forbidding it's citizens to visit Cuba.

Ding dong the witch is dead. Let's hope the scars heal.
couchmaster

climber
Nov 26, 2016 - 03:52pm PT
Here are some more eulogies to follow up on Prime Minister Trudeau of Canada's recent kind words about Castro:



“While a controversial figure, even detractors recognize Pol Pot encouraged renewed contact between city and countryside.” #trudeaueulogies— Andrew Coyne (@acoyne) November 26, 2016



“While a controversial figure, General Tojo brought America into World War II and ultimately helped shorten the war.” #trudeaueulogies
— Andrew Coyne (@acoyne) November 26, 2016


Today we mourn the loss of Norman Bates, a family man who was truly defined by his devotion to his mother. #trudeaueulogies
— Mike Hogan (@tsnmikehogan) November 26, 2016



“Today we say goodbye to Mr. Mussolini, the former Italian prime minister best known for his competent train-management.”
— J.J. McCullough (@JJ_McCullough) November 26, 2016



While Emperor Nero was controversial, his dedication to song and writing poetry signaled a Roman artistic renaissance." https://t.co/67oGEgZgDi
— Jason Hickman (@jasonhickman) November 26, 2016


Today we mourn painter and animal rights activist, Adolf Hitler. His death also highlights the need for suicide awareness"#TrudeauEulogies
— Curtis (@FowlCanuck) November 26, 2016


'Though not universally liked by his compatriots, Mr. Ceausescu was a leader in urban design and affordable housing' #trudeaueulogies
— Cam Vidler (@camvidler) November 26, 2016

SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2016 - 04:21pm PT

How many have the dictators killed in the Philippines?
East Timor?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Nov 26, 2016 - 04:44pm PT
Kingtut
esco is too busy nuzzling up to the warm bossom of a desired trumpian utopia, he's drunk on the thought that the mothers milk of tax cuts for the 1% will somehow make his lot better.


Naw, just hoping he misses his mark and includes tax cuts for the 2 and 3 percenters also.....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 26, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
So glad the conversation arrived in this thread.
The bland and meaningless "goodbye as#@&%e" and yuk yuk jokes ignore layers upon layers of complexity, and what this person's life was about.
I agree with those that say he can't hold a candle to the big bad boys. Too much good, not enough evil for him to play.
Trump's minions should love him. He told the USA to f*#k off and ruled with an iron fist, just like Donald wants to do.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Nov 26, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
You have to give credit to a man that hold the helm amidst the overwhelming tide of Coca-Cola and RockFord Fosgate Punch brand subwoofers. Great guy, strong arm.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 26, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
Trump wants to end relations with Cuba(before they get started). . . . . . .until he can get his hotel built.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Nov 26, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
yeah doesn't get anymore metaphorically grey than ole fidel...

anybody who gets in a boat with 81 other men... and then sets sail from another country in order to "invade" their home country... and then starts a guerrilla war [with the 19 men who make it through the first onslaught] in order to overthrow a dictator propped up by [one of, if not] the most powerful empires the world has ever seen... and then proceeds to not only overthrow the existing dictator but then manages to successfully avoid hundreds of assassination attempts by said empire to the north during the decades that follow... has to be admired for the incredibly visionary and committed human that he was.

otoh...

anybody who then installs himself as lifetime dictator... and then proceeds to murder and/or imprison at least tens of thousands of his political opponents... and then ultimately causes around 10% of his countrymen to get in whatever boat, no matter how unseaworthy, and set sail towards said empire to the north... has to be despised for the catastrophic failure that he also was.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:55pm PT
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=RDEMB7bVKF5LrUg1Wj28VdVVmQ¶ms=OAFIAVgR&v=J6ZjnxnDSOM&mode=NORMAL
i-b-goB

Social climber
Wise Acres
Nov 26, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 26, 2016 - 10:20pm PT
The idea that any thing that was told to us was real back then is now hard to belive.
There were those with vast wealth that never stopped enjoying Cuba.

Question everything that was not directly evident in the actions that took place around the world.
Fidel Castro Predicts Nuclear War

by Humberto Fontova


The dictator who came the closest in history to igniting a nuclear war made several public appearances this week to predict imminent nuclear war. The cataclysm he craved in Oct. 1962 will erupt, he warned on Cuban TV this week, when the Israelis and their Yankee vassals, provoke Iran in the straits of Hormuz.

That’s not a typo above. Castro, who co-sponsored the famous 1975 UN resolution equating Zionism with Racism, says the Israeli tail wags the Yankee dog. Those Yankees are certainly powerful, Castro explained, but also a bit naïve and docile. The main instigators, the ones carefully setting the trap to ignite nuclear war are those crafty Israelis. "The control that Israel has over the United States is enormous," he revealed last week.

Fidel Castro, that sentimental old fool, has excellent reason to bask in the fond memory of imminent nuclear war. “Of course I knew the missiles were nuclear- armed,” responded Fidel Castro to Robert McNamara during a meeting in 1992. “That’s precisely WHY I urged Khrushchev to launch them. And of course Cuba would have been utterly destroyed in the exchange.”

"If the missiles had remained, we would have fired them against the very heart of the U.S., including New York. The victory of socialism is well worth millions of atomic victims.” (Che Guevara, November 1962.)

“My dream is to drop three Atomic Bombs on New York City (Raul –not Fidel—Castro, Nov. 1960.)

But “Hay Caramba!” the Stalinist trio fumed and raged for years afterwards. “Nikita Khruzchev, that sniveling maricon, snatched that magic button-pushing moment from our eager fingers!”

“We should deliver a nuclear first strike,” read the telegram from Castro to Khrushchev on Oct. 28 1962.

“What!” Khrushchev gasped, as recalled by his son Sergei. “Is he (Fidel Castro) proposing that we start a nuclear war? That we launch missiles from Cuba?”

“Apparently.”

“Yesterday the Cubans shot down a plane (U-2 with) without (Soviet) permission.

Today they’re preparing a nuclear attack.”

“But that is insane!...Remove them (our missiles) as soon as possible! Before it’s too late. Before something terrible happens!” instructed the Soviet premier.

So much for the gallant Knights of Camelot standing up to the Russians and forcing their retreat during the Cuban missile crisis!” In fact, it was the Castro brothers and Che Guevara’s genocidal lusts that prompted the Butcher of Budapest to get those missiles out of their reach.

“We ended up getting exactly what we'd wanted all along," later snickered Nikita Khrushchev in his memoirs, "security for Fidel Castro’s regime and American missiles removed from Turkey. Until today the U.S. has complied with her promise not to interfere with Castro and not to allow anyone else to interfere with Castro. After Kennedy's death, his successor Lyndon Johnson assured us that he would keep the promise not to invade Cuba."

"Kennedy pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory,” Nixon wrote about the Bay of Pigs and Missile Crisis.

“Then (he) gave the Soviets squatters rights in our backyard."

"We locked Castro's communism into Latin America and threw away the key to its removal," observed Barry Goldwater in 1964. "I would help Cuban exiles OPENLY. I’d give them the guns and ammunition to blast Castro out of his island stronghold now defended with Soviet arms."

In his memoirs the Butcher of Budapest further twisted the knife and snickered yet again: "it would have been ridiculous for us to go to war over Cuba--for a country 12,000 miles away. For us, war was unthinkable.

So the threat that so rattled the Knights of Camelot and inspired such cinematic and literary epics of drama and derring-do by their court scribes and cinematographers, were pure hooey. The threat came, not from the Soviets, but from the Stalinist regime hailed to the high heavens by the Congressional Black Caucus, befriended by Democratic Presidential candidates (“Fidel Castro is very shy and sensitive, a man I regard as a friend," George Mc Govern) and preparing for a windfall of U.S. dollars, courtesy of the U.S. Congress. (More on that shortly)

Considering the U.S. Nuclear superiority over the Soviets at the time of the (so-called) Missile Crisis (five thousand nuclear warheads for us, three hundred for them) it's hard to imagine a president Nixon—much less Reagan—quaking in front of Khrushchev's transparent ruse a la JFK.

The Crisis “resolution” bestowed upon Castro a new status. Let's call it MAP, or “mutually-assured-protection,” assured by the two most powerful countries on earth, including the one whose president had recently declared freedom “indivisible,” and more: “We shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty,"

JFK's Missile crisis “solution” also pledged that he immediately pull the rug out from under Cuba's in-house freedom fighters. Raul Castro himself admitted that at the time of the Missile Crisis his troops and their Soviet advisors were up against 179 different "bands of bandits" as he labeled the thousands of Cuban anti-Communist rebels then battling savagely and virtually alone in Cuba's countryside, with small arms shipments from their compatriots in south Florida as their only lifeline.

Kennedy's deal with Khrushchev cut this lifeline. The Cuban freedom-fighters working from South Florida were suddenly rounded up for "violating U.S. Neutrality laws." The Coast Guard in Florida got 12 new boats and seven new planes to make sure Castro and his Soviet patrons remained utterly unmolested as they consolidated Stalinism 90 miles from U.S. shores. Think about it: here's the U.S. Coast Guard and Border patrol working 'round the clock arresting Hispanics in the U.S. who are desperate to return to their native country.

This ferocious guerrilla war, waged 90 miles from America's shores, might have taken place on the planet Pluto for all you'll read about it in the MSM and all you'll learn about it from those illustrious Ivy-League Academics. To get an idea of the odds faced by those betrayed rural rebels, the desperation of their battle and the damage they wrought, you might revisit Tony Montana during the last 15 minutes of "Scarface."

Most of these thousands of fighters died as Tony Montana died. Surrender wasn't an option. When their bullets ran out, their lives ran out.


(Every item above is fully documented in the books, Fidel Hollywood’s Favorite Tyrant and in Exposing the Real Che Guevara and the Useful Idiots Who Idolize Him)
http://www.autentico.org/oa19003.php
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 26, 2016 - 10:22pm PT
He really did wonders with the Cuban economy. Their chief exports were
lip cancer and assassins. Strong work!
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Nov 26, 2016 - 10:47pm PT
You have to have a Cuban cigar once in your life. A night of good company, strong liquor, fine food and a Cohiba, will never be forgotten.
Hear, hear! I had my first Cuban cigar back in 1987, while dining with my best friend on giant 8-inch long shrimp at a beach-side restaurant in Kenya. I think the whole meal and Cuban cigars cost about $15. Back then, I spent some time as the skipper of an old, rusty 350-ton freighter, running in and out of the Kenyan port of Mombasa. My boat was kinda of like the freighter shown below. Those big Indian Ocean swells were something else....

Those were some good times, and good Cuban cigars.

Hail Castro!
R.I.P.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 26, 2016 - 11:20pm PT
Come on Reilly....in terms of intelligence and character he was FAR better then what we will soon be saddled with.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 26, 2016 - 11:24pm PT
You have to give credit to somebody who can oppress and execute so many people for so long. Rest in peace, you commie f-ck! May God have mercy on your soul.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Nov 27, 2016 - 01:05am PT
You have to give credit to somebody who can oppress and execute so many people for so long.

bluering,
Are you talking about George HW Bush or George W Bush?
Or are you talking about Obama?
Or all three?

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 27, 2016 - 05:39am PT
Relax SLR, that's the smell of freedom, not rotting corpses.

The idea that he was the worst of the worst, and that our hands are all sparkly clean with the bright sheen of democracy is just utter bullsh#t.
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Nov 27, 2016 - 06:38am PT
Fidel was certainly one of the most divisive leaders ever.
For the good things he did, such as education and health, there was the negative human rights side. What is the point of good education when there are very few jobs and opportunities? Where a person with a PHD in Physics has to drive a cab?
I have been to Cuba and the experience can be summed up as great people who like to have fun living in a Twilight Zone of an economy.
Imagine an island with fertile soils and good rain that can't feed itself. Where do they import beans from? The Navaho reservation near Farmington!
I think Fidel was proof that the people who lead a revolution should step down within a few years and let someone else take power.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 27, 2016 - 06:59am PT
First Florence Henderson, then Fidel Castro.
Who will be the third in this celebrity group?

At the next Oscars, will Castro make the list of beloved celebrities that passed away?

Edit: “You’re just hung up on the facts, man.”
Guitarist Carlos Santana after being confronted on what a murderous thug Che Guevara was.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 27, 2016 - 07:07am PT
Yeah, the Brady Death Squad was fun to watch, too.

Good times.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Nov 27, 2016 - 07:22am PT
Zardoz,

These are important times, it gives you a glimpse into what some of these progressives actually want in the USA.

Take note...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 27, 2016 - 08:06am PT
It really is incredible that any of you are respectful of Fidel Castro.

“It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 27, 2016 - 08:18am PT
I spent a week rock climbing in Vinales in 2001. We stayed next to a grade school....never have I seen such infectious laughter and smiles from children.
Fidel's brand of communism certainly didn't work for the Cuban economy but don't swallow all of the right wing propaganda about what a monster he was.
We found genuine affection for him even among people who thought that a lot of his policies were ruinous.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 27, 2016 - 08:24am PT
What is the point of good education when there are very few jobs and opportunities? Where a person with a PHD in Physics has to drive a cab?

I thought this was about Cuba, but I see you e talking about the US.
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Nov 27, 2016 - 08:39am PT
All right. AP, interesting post. So I guess it can be worthwhile to wade through the cesspool sometimes. That sounds like my inlaws' experience when they went to Cuba. Many from the older generation who remembered how hard it was for them under Batista were still nostaligic about the revolution while the younger generation, more often than not, was discontent with the way the country had stagnated for half a century. I recall one story about a waiter who had a master's degree in agricultural engineering and was unable to buy soap to use at home.

Here's what it says about government policy and climbing in Cuba on the Cuba Climbing webpage (I hope they don't mind me reproducing this and I don't see anything on the web page precluding it):

As the first decade of climbing in Cuba draws to a close, the future of climbing for Cubans is in doubt.

Since 2003, Cuban climbers have been harassed by an officialdom that can’t decide whether it will “authorize” climbing, and pretends that until it does “authorize”, it isn’t an appropriate activity for Cubans. Foreigners, however, have been free to climb. The era of the scrappy first generation of Havana climbers, such as Vity Echazábal and Jorge Mederos, drew to a close with the departure of their torchbearer, Aníbal Fernández. Aníbal had been run from Viñales and jailed for days. He felt forced to leave Cuba.

The remarkable next generation of Cubans, particularly the Viñales home-grown climbers, ended with the escape into exile of Josué Millo and Alberto Leivas. For years their leader, Josué, seemed to take his treatment by officials in stride. Josué’s entire family was persecuted. Each was a member of Cuba’s most oppressed splinter groups. His father had been jailed as a dissident (for failing to inform on the activities of a Cuban-American relative); his mother and sister were Jehovah’s Witnesses; and his brother was a homosexual.

In 2005, Cuban Security authorities banned Armando Menocal from Cuba. Menocal had been one of the first foreigners to climb in Cuba, published the Cuba Climbing guidebook and website, and, importantly, operated the program of sending donated gear that sustained the Cuban climbers and helped the Cubans to become an independent climbing community, free of government control or dependence, and the primary developers of climbing in Cuba. He remains permanently exiled by the government.

Finally, in 2009, Yarobys Garcia, the Cuban who took over as the leader in Viñales and has become the strongest climber, was arrested when climbing at the Cuba Libre Wall, taken to the police station, and then given an official notice by the police: climb again and face imprisonment. In Cuba’s legal parlance, this was the formal first step leading to the criminal charge of “peligrosidad” (dangerousness). Cuba’s criminal code permits anyone to be sentenced for up to four years in prison on the ground that the authorities believe that the individual has a “special proclivity” to commit crimes, even though he or she has not have actually committed a crime. The code broadly defines “dangerous” people as those who act in a manner that contradicts “socialist morality” or engage in “anti-social behavior.” According to human rights reports, the charge of “dangerousness” has targeted so-called ”anti-social” youths, most of them black, and 400 remain imprisoned. In Viñales the charge has been used in the last few years against gays, such as Josué’s brother.

For most, the addiction to climbing does not risk blacklist or prison. Nor does climbing force them into exile, separated not just from their crags, but families and country, and even forced to assume a new identity, that of an “exile”. But as those who climb in Cuba have learned, in some places, “commitment” must be redefined in those terms.

I remember hearing since that climbing had been outlawed. Here's what the web page says about that:

http://www.cubaclimbing.com/climbing/permitsaccess/

Edit: in all fairness, I should also add what the free USA has to say about its citizens going to Cuba to climb:

http://www.cubaclimbing.com/essential-cuba/u-s-visitors/
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 27, 2016 - 08:47am PT
We found genuine affection for him even among people who thought that a lot of his policies were ruinous.

A "What's the Matter with Kansas" version of Cuba?
http://us.macmillan.com/whatsthematterwithkansas/thomasfrank/9780805077742
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Nov 27, 2016 - 09:52am PT
LMAO...
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 27, 2016 - 11:30am PT
Always used his products, at least until he went all hi-tec.

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Nov 27, 2016 - 11:37am PT

CIA, the mob and killing Castro

The Church Committee stated that it substantiated eight attempts by the CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro in 1960-1965. Fabian Escalante, a retired chief of Cuba's counterintelligence, who had been tasked with protecting Castro, estimated the number of assassination schemes or actual attempts by the Central Intelligence Agency to be 638. Some of them were a part of the covert CIA program dubbed Operation Mongoose aimed at toppling the Cuban government. The assassination attempts reportedly included cigars poisoned with botulinum toxin, a tubercle bacilli-infected scuba-diving suit along with a booby-trapped conch placed on the sea bottom, an exploding cigar, a ballpoint pen containing a hypodermic syringe preloaded with the lethal concoction "Blackleaf 40", and plain, mafia-style execution endeavors, among others. There were plans to blow up Castro during his visit to Ernest Hemingway's museum in Cuba.

Some of the plots were depicted in a documentary film entitled 638 Ways to Kill Castro (2006) aired on Channel 4 of the British public-service television. One of these attempts was by his ex-lover Marita Lorenz, whom he met in 1959. She allegedly agreed to aid the CIA and attempted to smuggle a jar of cold cream containing poison pills into his room. When Castro learned about her intentions, he reportedly gave her a gun and told her to kill him but her nerve failed. Some plots aimed not at murder but at character assassination; they, for example, involved using thallium salts to destroy Castro's famous beard, or lacing his radio studio with LSD to cause him disorientation during the broadcast and damage his public image.

According to the CIA documents, the so-called Family Jewels that were declassified in 2007, one assassination attempt on Fidel Castro prior to the Bay of Pigs invasion involved noted American mobsters Johnny Roselli, Salvatore Giancana and Santo Trafficante.

In September 1960, Momo Salvatore Giancana, a successor of Al Capone's in the Chicago Outfit, and Miami Syndicate leader Santo Trafficante, who were both on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list at that time, were indirectly contacted by the CIA about the possibility of Fidel Castro assassination.

Johnny Roselli, a member of the Las Vegas Syndicate, was used to get access to Mafia bosses. The go-between from the CIA was Robert Maheu, who introduced himself as a representative of several international businesses in Cuba that were expropriated by Castro. On September 14, 1960, Maheu met with Roselli in a New York City hotel and offered him US$150,000 for the "removal" of Castro. James O'Connell, who identified himself as Maheu's associate but who actually was the chief of the CIA's operational support division, was present during the meeting. The declassified documents did not reveal if Roselli, Giancana or Trafficante accepted a down payment for the job. According to the CIA files, it was Giancana who suggested poison pills as a means to doctor Castro's food or drinks. Such pills, manufactured by the CIA's Technical Services Division, were given to Giancana's nominee named Juan Orta. Giancana recommended Orta as being an official in the Cuban government, who had access to Castro.

Allegedly, after several unsuccessful attempts to introduce the poison into Castro's food, Orta abruptly demanded to be let out of the mission, handing over the job to another unnamed participant. Later, a second attempt was mounted through Giancana and Trafficante using Dr. Anthony Verona, the leader of the Cuban Exile Junta, who had, according to Trafficante, become "disaffected with the apparent ineffectual progress of the Junta". Verona requested US$10,000 in expenses and US$1,000 worth of communications equipment. However, it is unknown how far the second attempt went, as the assassination attempt was canceled due to the launching of the Bay of Pigs Invasion.

Wikipedia
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 27, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
Quite touching how the StuporTopo Robespierre Chowder and Marching Society
rally for the memory of one of their heroes.

I'm sure not a one of them would read, let alone countenance acknowledging
the veracity of, The Double Life of Fidel Castro: My 17 Years as Personal
Bodyguard to El Lider Maximo by Juan Sanchez.

"In The Double Life of Fidel Castro, one of Castro's soldiers of 17 years
breaks his silence and shares his memoir of years of service, and eventual
imprisonment and torture for displeasing the notorious dictator, and his
dramatic escape from Cuba.

Responsible for protecting the Lider maximo for two decades, Juan Reinaldo
Sanchez was party to his secret life–because everything around Castro was
hidden. From the ghost town in which guerrillas from several continents
were trained, to his immense personal fortune―including a huge
property portfolio, a secret paradise island, and seizure of public
money―as well as his relationship with his family and his nine
children from five different partners."


https://www.amazon.com/Double-Life-Fidel-Castro-Bodyguard/dp/1511327006
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 27, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
After he killed Oswald, I always suspected that Castro was a double agent.

That is why I joined up with Arnie's Army and switched to Pennzoil.


Mr. Palmer delivering the goods to (or from) Eisenhower. Don't Google those call letters and don't ask what is really in the bag.



thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Nov 27, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
That guy was great in Traffic
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Nov 27, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
Some people are sad that Fidel is gone. How many will be sad when Trump dies?
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Nov 27, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
Malemute made me laugh!
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Nov 27, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
Wow, Malemute. Scary that.
couchmaster

climber
Nov 27, 2016 - 08:10pm PT

My experience with Fidel was short. Mike, the guy who lived across the street was of Cuban descent. For Christmas, he invited my family over to have a get together. He also invited his mom and dad who flew in from Miami. Dad being Cuban who fled to Miami and knew everyone in the resistance who were actively working to get Fidel out and their country back. Or back to the country depending how one looks at it.

I made the mistake of wearing a joke t-shirt my older brother had given me @ 1976 when Carter ran as the "ultimate Washington outsider". The shirt said something like, "Vote for Fidel, the ultimate outsider." Turns out the dad had more than one buddy personally murdered by Che.

When I see the Alt-liberals on Supertopo decrying what an evil man Trump is....I haven't seen that in the man yet and hope I don't, but it makes me think they know what evil is. 10 min with Mike's dad listening to what he knew of Che and Fidel would correct that view.

Like all things, it's rare to see all black or all white. All good or all bad: certainly Fidel had plenty of both in his life.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 27, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
Hey, Malemute, if they built a bridge from Havana to Miami how long do you think it would take
for Cuba to empty out?
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 28, 2016 - 04:49am PT
This no news propaganda, to distract from the coming
fascist take over of the Ununited states.

Clearly the Reagan Bush puppet show was the thread that let the FACIST's take control
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 28, 2016 - 09:44am PT
Where's the love? A guy with obvious talents dies and get's trashed....when a vastlly overrated Regan passed he got eulogized.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 28, 2016 - 10:17am PT
Trump's gut is churning, trying to figure out how Fidel did it, while still spewing all the while about freedom.

He f*#king wishes he had been Castro.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Nov 28, 2016 - 10:19am PT
Good Grief, shouldn't you be at a rally or something?

Comparing Trump to Castro shows your level of delusion and insanity. Go lie down or something, you're gonna pop your cork.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Nov 28, 2016 - 10:28am PT
Where's the love? A guy with obvious talents dies and get's trashed....when a vastly overrated Regan passed he got eulogized.

Well, at least when Regan died, being a Federal worker at the time, I got the day off.

Best thing he ever did for the country...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 28, 2016 - 10:30am PT
STFU escargot, you're the one that voted for a fascist.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Nov 28, 2016 - 10:39am PT
Didn't know they had wifi at the Hillary re-count protests Survival. How's that working out for you? Things getting violent yet?

Maybe you guys should set up a protest in Little Havana and see how that goes over. Don't forget to wear your Che' t-shirt you got at Anthropologie....
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Nov 28, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
Where's the love? A guy with obvious talents dies and get's trashed....when a vastly overrated Regan passed he got eulogized.

Well, at least when Regan died, being a Federal worker at the time, I got the day off.

Best thing he ever did for the country...

Why all the hate for Don Regan, most people think he did an admirable job as White House Chief of Staff.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 28, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
Did Fidel condone water boarding?
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 28, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
Regan wasn't bad, nor was she Cuban. The devil made her do it.


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Nov 28, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
When I see the Alt-liberals on Supertopo decrying what an evil man Trump is....I haven't seen that in the man yet and hope I don't, but it makes me think they know what evil is. 10 min with Mike's dad listening to what he knew of Che and Fidel would correct that view.
Wow, is that ever a nonsequitur. I guess I have no right to complain about Trump right away since Fidel was worse. I should have made that argument during the preceding part of Obama's presidency. Somehow though, I don't think anyone would have accepted that.

Frankly, I'm surprised to see some on this site defending him. Ironically, there is a decent healthcare system in place, but look at what they had to traade for it. As Zardoz notes, kids are kids. I do not consider that evidence that Fidel did anything beneficial. Moreover, the whole 'he thumbed his nose at the US all these years' thing is meaningless. Tell a teenager to stop smoking and he'll thumb his nose at you too. It's just stupid defiance, not merit worthy.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Nov 28, 2016 - 02:11pm PT

Visiting Cuba was an amazing experience, I'd recommend it to anyone with an open mind to other cultures.

Garry Reiss
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 28, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
In 1959, when Castro took over, Cuba was No. 3 in Latin America in doctors and dentists per capita. It ranked No. 13 in the world in lowest infant mortality rate.

It's not clear to me that the Cuban health care systems owes all that much to Castro. In any case, the brutality, repression and poverty that ensued overwhelms anything good he may have done.

John
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 28, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
Comparing US and Cuba infant mortality rates is not so simple.

For example the two countries define a live birth quite differently, so premature babies which often live minutes or hours are counted in US infant mortality rates but not in Cuban, so the base line is not the same. Analysts say that this could count for as much as 40% of the difference on its own. Then, from Politifact,


"Cuba does have a very low infant mortality rate, but pregnant women are treated with very authoritarian tactics to maintain these favorable statistics," said Tassie Katherine Hirschfeld, the chair of the department of anthropology at the University of Oklahoma who spent nine months living in Cuba to study the nation's health system. "They are pressured to undergo abortions that they may not want if prenatal screening detects fetal abnormalities. If pregnant women develop complications, they are placed in ‘Casas de Maternidad’ for monitoring, even if they would prefer to be at home. Individual doctors are pressured by their superiors to reach certain statistical targets. If there is a spike in infant mortality in a certain district, doctors may be fired. There is pressure to falsify statistics."
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 28, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
And El Maximo Hypocrite's apologists also don't know, or won't acknowledge, that there are
two health care systems there exactly modeled on the Soviet Union's: one for 'everybody'
and one for everybody else, which is to say the higher ranking party members.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Nov 28, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
^^^^^^^

Well, at least we have that in common with Cuba...
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Nov 28, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
It seems to me that when the Colonialist Octupus is entirely murderous and unscrupulous that someone colt de game.

Mose Allison was reported to have strong views about "the domination of money over everything, the growing lack of empathy on the part of the powers-that-be for the population, wars and more wars, and an underlying hypocrisy in society"[10] and the arrogance of colonizers of the Americas.[13]

[Click to View YouTube Video]

thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Nov 28, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
que onda, flip and 7SP



apparently the half-life on TGT's target-specific viagra is off the charts. talk about humping a dead horse.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Nov 28, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
Ni cuadrada, ni redonda.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Nov 28, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
My fellow cavers have been going caving in Cuba for decades.
They all rave about Cuba when they return to the USA.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Nov 29, 2016 - 07:58am PT
They all rave about Cuba when they return to the USA.


Lol. The irony in that statement is too much to bear.....
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 3, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 4, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
Castro Cuba and Communism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kBdejp8yMM

Violent content.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Dec 4, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
It's not clear to me that the Cuban health care systems owes all that much to Castro. In any case, the brutality, repression and poverty that ensued overwhelms anything good he may have done.

Castro was a nasty, authoritarian son of a bitch - as with so many Latin American leaders over the last two centuries, many of them corrupt, right-wing, US-backed military dictators. He seems in fact to have been less corrupt and more egalitarian than many of those despots - many of them rulers of Cuba. (Plus he played semi-professional baseball, in the USA.) The problem the USA had with Castro is that he challenged the Monroe Doctrine, and the roots of its empire. And, of course, that he dared stand up to US corporate interests. He refused to be the American's son of a bitch, which was real offence for those who believe that the US had a hegemony over Latin America.

And there's no mistaking that Castro toppled a truly ugly dictatorship, and at the time there weren't many, if any, alternatives. The US has never apologized for its sometimes-atrocious behaviour toward Cuba, and Latin America generally. No wonder many Cubans wanted change, any change, in 1959.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of Cuba in the next while. No doubt corporate interests and right-wingers will continue to fantasize about a return to the pre-Castro era. Not going to happen.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 4, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
Operation ORTSAC, 1962.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/never-before-seen-photos-taken-50-years-ago-during-preparations-for-cuba-invasion-77664326/
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 5, 2016 - 07:03am PT
DMT, they coulda had all the Zhigulis and Fiats they wanted. Oh, and Hugo woulda been
happy to sell them venezolano heaps, too.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 5, 2016 - 08:16am PT
Mr Milktoast writes:

"Every single one of the folks making this point fails to observe or admit the principle reason they Cubans don't have modern tools and equipment is the embargo the U.S. enforced upon them for decades."


Everybody trades with Cuba but us.

The Germans trade with Cuba. Germans make decent tools.

Sweden hasn't embargoed Cuba. How come Cubans aren't driving around in Volvos and SAABs?

It's because modern tools and cars cost money, and Cuba doesn't have any money because their economic system produces no wealth.


Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 5, 2016 - 08:29am PT
How could that be? President Obama said our Cuba policy wasn't working.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 5, 2016 - 08:37am PT
The embargo had nothing to do with Fidel preventing 'his' people from becoming the Carib
Silicone Valley or anything else that only requires an educated and motivated populace. Isn't
it obvious by now that top-down rigidly controlled economies without any entrepreneurial
spirit are hopeless? As Chaz noted there were plenty of countries willing to trade with Cuba,
before and after Russia supported them.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Dec 5, 2016 - 08:47am PT
ludicrous at the least.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 5, 2016 - 08:55am PT
So the Cuban embargo explains the failures of all the exact same economies like E Germany,
N Korea, USSR, Poland, etc? Your denial of reality is ludicrous. Cuba had a beggar's banquet
going on for years while it was supported by the USSR yet it failed to thrive. They could have
utilized all sorts of resources from Angola but they didn't. Morons can't manage an economy
in which it is illegal to start a business, but maybe you geniuses could?
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Dec 5, 2016 - 09:05am PT
DMT is spot on...

both mexico and canada passed their own laws to attempt to neutralize the u.s.' attempts at strong arming foreign companies out of dealing with cuba. the e.u. pursued complaints for a time through the wto...

again this isn't a defence of castro, but at least two [the u.s. govt and fidel] definitely both played at a game that fUcked the cuban people...

one of the little known clauses to the more recent helms-burton act was that ships docking at cuban ports were not allowed to dock at u.s. ports for six months. doesn't take a genius to imagine what that would do to an island nation's trade, even if it didn't originate in the u.s.

even more overtly insidious is that under helms-burton "any non-U.S. company that deals economically with Cuba can be subjected to legal action and that company's leadership can be barred from entry into the United States. Sanctions may be applied to non-U.S. companies trading with Cuba."



no, to claim that the cuban reality was all the castros doing is to once again stick one's head in the sand regarding the u.s.' treatment of not just cuba but most of central america.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 5, 2016 - 09:06am PT
Cigars are rationed in Cuba because of the U.S. trade embargo.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Dec 5, 2016 - 12:27pm PT

Does anybody know where the worst violations of human rights take place on Cuba right now? You know, this camp. Guantanamo...

When it comes to Castro, Mighty Hiker gets it right...

"It takes a chief to catch a thief"...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 5, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
The vehicle carrying Castro's ashes broke down and had to be pushes.


How apropos.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 5, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
Does anybody know where the worst violations of human rights take place on Cuba right now?

Probably only high level Cuban Communists (edit: and "interrogators"), would know if their torture is an order above or below our waterboarding.
Anyone else is guessing.

hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Dec 5, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
What were the 3 biggest improvements/changes which Castro brought to the Cuban people?







VVVVV






VVVVV









vvvv







vvvv






1. Breakfast
2. Lunch
3. Supper
:) :) :)
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