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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 20, 2016 - 09:19pm PT
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I have the typical rounded shoulders bullshit going on, and I sporadically do the usual stuff - external rotations, rows (cable rows on a machine OK?), some (minnnnnimal) yoga positions.
That's kind of it.
I don't really stretch much with resistance, and have started doing some stuff with bands but honestly I feel like I'm just trying to knot myself up with those things.
What do you all like, how often do you do it, resistance etc.
Please no actual kineasyologists only broscience preferred
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Oct 20, 2016 - 09:28pm PT
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Climbing caveman with imbalanced muscle development?
Try more pushups? Arms far apart to focus on pecs.
And stay out of the lead cave ceilings in the gym.
Those people tend to get cobra backs!
(not to mention all those weird Bruce Lee ripples and bulges in places that most of us didn't know muscles existed)
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 20, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
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100 meter butterfly repeats X 50
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 20, 2016 - 10:40pm PT
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An old girlfriend said this worked for her...
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snagglepuss
Mountain climber
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Oct 21, 2016 - 07:52am PT
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Stop looking for an easy solution and get to work fixing the problem. It's not rocket science! It's just not glamorous or fun. You know what you need to do. Asking here is BS.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2016 - 08:07am PT
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Boy when I said I was hoping for some psuedo science I had no idea the bounty I would be blessed with.
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snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
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Oct 21, 2016 - 08:57am PT
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maybe get some richard simmons videos to improve your posture and endurance?
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Oct 21, 2016 - 09:09am PT
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Just do some damn pushups. It's not that hard.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Oct 21, 2016 - 09:33am PT
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Burch has been looking pretty damn good since the wife left
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Oct 21, 2016 - 10:55am PT
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Climbers have overdeveloped back muscles. You need to do more bench press and chest work to balance out your overdeveloped back.
Edit: If you climb a lot, there is no need to workout those pulling muscles in the gym. I get more benefit, for my posture and my climbing ability, by doing antagonist muscle groups when I use the weight room. i.e. pushing exercises . . .
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climbingcoastie
Ice climber
Wasilla, AK
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Oct 21, 2016 - 11:16am PT
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My PT person told me to sit in my car straight up and shoulders back and adjust the mirros. Now every time I drive I know when I'm slouching because I can't see out of my mirrors, so I adjust my posture accordingly. It's a pretty simple thing to do, but has helped.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 21, 2016 - 11:24am PT
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My couch has no mirrors so I've no idea if I'm slouching.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 21, 2016 - 11:39am PT
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hey there say, GDavis...
say, just please don't give up... you will more than glad you conquered this...
the whole way that the body works, depends on good posture, non-slouch...
it affects breathing, blood circulation, etc, not just 'appearance' ...
start by trying to hold your shoulders back, if you can't do it ALL the
time, due to tention in the muscles (it can hurt, if your muscles are 'shrunk' into the slouch position...
one set of muscles has stretched to lenthen, turning the shoulders over, and the other has shortened... it WILL TAKE TIME...
i have helped my dance students, by getting them to work it through...
even digestion can be affected by bad posture and old age will
feel WORSE if you can't fix it now...
best wishes, in this...
you can find many ways to work on this...
i will try to find some good links, later... i just can't for a few days...
tami has great advice, there too... and a few others...
just please, do not give up... you will feel the difference...
and, yes, you will for NOW, feel the 'annoyance or discomfort' of
working on it...
:)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 21, 2016 - 11:46am PT
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hey there say, ... here you go...
:)
she has good stuff...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
and he has good stuff...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
you can do... we are in your corner...
:)
*not sure about that knee comment, though, it'd depend, i think??
one individuals? but just do NOT LOCK knees, for sure, if you
do have to take care of that area...
dancer wise, never seen that issue too much, with folks...
so i don't want to share anything i don't understand there, ?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
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Too late I've given up.
The pseudoscience comment was a light hearted joke, although most of the comments seem to be somewhere between push ups and 'try harder'(??)
Maybe I'm in the minority cuz I still train, but....
Pushups and chest exercises will make my chest tighter, therefore rounding the shoulders more... I UNDERSTAND about posture, I UNDERSTAND oppositional exercises / etc.... just looking to see what you all do for yourselves.
If the answer was "try harder bro" I'd be OK, maybe this is advice you all should heed yourselves for your own problems (overweight, bad relationship, depression... Try Harder Man)
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Presto
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Oct 21, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
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Words to live by: Always sit up straight.
As my grandpa would say, "It'll put hair on your chest, and make a man out of ya."
Maybe a tiny bit NSFW:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Oct 21, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
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G-D
I'm not so sure about the logic behind the tight chest theory. I think its more of a muscle mass imbalance between your front and back. This has improved my posture greatly as well as how stable I feel on the rock. (chest exercise)
By that logic swimmers and climbers would have the opposite problem (shoulders too far back- being pulled by overdeveloped back muscles)
But, yours is the most common problem among these athletes.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
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I liked those vids NeeBee shared, one idea that kind of clicked is to point my sternum up higher. Sometimes a little mental cue like that can help to maintain, that is a nice tip I like...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
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There's this patch that's been slowly growing by my right lat/shoulder. Used to be like 3-4 longer hairs in high school but now it's become clear the great barrier reef has abandoned the infertile ocean to nest on my shitty skin.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Oct 21, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
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Deep massage to break up fascia in the front. Work or not, it feels great!
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Oct 21, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
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I also got a lot of benefit from several Rolfing sessions. He did lots of body awareness with me. That was as beneficial as the physical body work.
He'd look at my stance then say, "so what are you doing with your right shoulder right now? Drop it down so it is even with the other one. Now relax. See, you have a choice about that shoulder". Pretty cool stuff.
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snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
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Oct 21, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
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GD, sounds like a gerbil patch. tucker has one also!!
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Oct 21, 2016 - 03:03pm PT
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Take a long winger and carefully injure your lower back in such a way that slouching for more than 30 or 40 minutes causes extreme back pain.
Worked wonders for my posture, just sayin'...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 21, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
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I'll start off by saying that I think there are more than a few ways of attacking this.
But common to all of it, is that a person must develop an awareness of their posture, just by feel. Can you tell, right now, if you are slouching. Most people cannot. They also cannot feel when they are straight.
This makes it quite difficult to change, if you cannot feel the difference.
How to develop this awareness? Dance was mentioned, and it is my observation that this is one of the best, particularly ballet. All of the exercise in ballet is about posture, balance, and strength. If you've never taken a ballet class, it will be an eye opener. You'll hurt the next day.
(but in a good way). I referred MANY of my back pain patients to take ballet. Those that actually went seemed to permanently solve their problems.
A simple thing you can do at home: lay on a flat, hard surface on your back. Run one of your hands under the small of your back---there is quite a bit of space between your back and the floor, right? There should not be. The associated exercise is to flatten that area, so that your hand cannot get under. Visualize crushing a piece of bread, obliterating that space. Hold it down for 30 seconds, repeatx5, do several times a day.
This creates awareness of this area of your back. Whey you are standing, and replicate the movement standing up, it tends to force you into a proper posture, even with your upper back and chest.
Do the same sort of exercise with your neck and the ground.
When you do both standing up, it will force you into an upright posture, which will give you the illusion that you are suspended from the top of the back of your head, straightened out all the way to the bottom of your spine.
Do this many times a day. As time goes on, you will develop a sense of what a straight spine feels like, and when you are in that position.
I think rolfing helps loosens one up, as does pilates, and chiropractic.
Dance teachers are the golden secret to identifying this, and changing it!
However, I think it is the day-to-day stuff you do which actually produces long-term change.
Your mileage may vary.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Oct 21, 2016 - 05:03pm PT
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There's an app for that.
Not joking, there are posture apps.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Oct 21, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
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A lot of it is simple awareness.
Climbers (and a lot of other people) tend to walk around with their palms facing rear-wards which rolls their shoulders forward. Hold a stick in each hand, horizontally, relax and walk or stand as usual. Odds are the sticks will point inward. If so bring them out 'till they point forward, but do this by rolling your shoulders down and back. Don't get any of the movement from your wrists or forearms. Develop the habit of walking with your palms facing your side, thumbs forward, shoulders down and back.
Get this feeling ingrained 'till it's habit, even with a pack on, and to the extent possible when climbing.
No offense to my buddy NutAgain, but pushups are the wrong thing to do. Any sort of exercise where you pull back, drawing your shoulders down and back such as the many forms of rows with weighted cables or bands (both arms at the same time) are good. Just be sure that your palms are facing your body, thumbs forward. The handles on a gym apparatus can fool you into the dreaded palms back position.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Oct 21, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
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When I started developing a shoulder problem, I started working on this, too. It's all about awareness, making a habit of checking in and feeling/seeing where your head/neck/shoulders are. I strive for a feeling of slight contraction between my shoulder blades. It's super easy to forget!
BAd
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 21, 2016 - 09:30pm PT
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This thread has helped improve my posture.
Every time I see it, I sit up straight, and pull back my shoulders.
I hope it gets bumped regularly.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Oct 21, 2016 - 10:37pm PT
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perswig
climber
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Oct 22, 2016 - 04:14am PT
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Keep your knees together.
Essential for PLF.
Appropriate decorum for a lady.
Maybe good for you?
That's all I got.
Dale
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 22, 2016 - 05:44am PT
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This topic has legs? Who woulda thought?
There are WRAPPS For That.....
So for serious, the wife and I were just thrilled to see that
Over the shoulder 'sling WRAPPS ' are cheap and very effective
( ?!we were scepitics, to Tami, last to admit our age, strap it, wrap it and go !)
Also for her (heavy chested) and still using out streached hands while standing,often for hours at a time,
there is a simple strap sling wrap, a few varieties that reminds the body to stand right,
shoulders back, tummy tucked in . . . .
So many versions,
but if you are an ex-climber, with a 'V'flair fading into grandma shoulders
there is a ten buck option (or an at home easy rig.)
This stand alone 'V' shaped set of two straps that attach to a waist belt,
it can be weighted.
In the back with as little as a roll or two of coins
it offsets and helps keep balance and posture
In dedicated hobbie folks who have zero strength , muscle use history.
Not 4 pound elaborate Velcro lifting belt jobs, I went web search and found
Under posture corrective braces wraps slings
younger arms used to compensate and with upper core sternum neck strength, it has been the last to fade, we Always watch the roll that happens in our shoulders.
More of the joys of age, I'm good with it, given the alternative . . .
This one $20 with magnets, is more than ....
https://www.aswechange.com/buy-north-american-magnetic-posture-corrector-350099?gclid=Cj0KEQjwnKzABRDy2pb7nPSazdsBEiQAI4lZQDu7_amqvWk8KaFIC1kPOPCJWlUDdpbXNoDF1hnVGRoaAokW8P8HAQ&sourcecode=AWFS10NEW&cmp=compare_shop&mr:trackingCode=$(ReferralID)$&mr:referralID=NA&s_kwcid=AL!4808!3!115945396274!!!g!18283950120!&ef_id=VJoLuwAAAOkqNlr7:20161022141359:s
This one may be all you need three hours a day? At the least.
http://www.tmart.com/Adjustable-Therapy-Back-Shoulder-Brace-Support-Belt-Posture-Corrector-White_p346242.html?cc=USD&fixed_price=hk_intl&gclid=Cj0KEQjwnKzABRDy2pb7nPSazdsBEiQAI4lZQJsug-0LgyTs6WtartIEjANc7bXgbv9ba5S5eywDrPEaAi1t8P8HAQ
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 22, 2016 - 05:46am PT
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Ho!
Yoga has been said,
When asking about posture , decipline and practice (is simple?!)
Breathing
&
YOGA
Haha,!
I had to go back 25, posts! , who said it
here is a hint no high ball Stone left un-turned
Chuckle chuckle ! small Rocks from hell Tree roots and rocks under leaves, the home of grim landings, the hardest highballs make the best top ropes....
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Oct 22, 2016 - 06:29am PT
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It would be interesting to hear what an actual PT has to say about this. Any PTs out there?
Or, even a chiropractor?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2016 - 11:19am PT
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Thanks Ken and Kris.
It's definitely a mix of both, I do need better markers for realizing when I'm out of position - could be an awareness thing?
Yoga is helping me to realize what "correct" feels like, been better at committing.
Could be I have some weird sleep / stress issues, God knows my life is strange enough as is... butttt that's true for all of us innit?
Also as a reminder I still use my muscles f*#king hard, so it isn't like I'm toproping 10Bees at mesa rim and looking to stretch out... gonna go break some fascia right now : /
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duncan
climber
London, UK
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Oct 22, 2016 - 01:18pm PT
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This actual PT suggests the importance of posture in back pain is greatly overrated.
There is good evidence that posture has very little influence on back pain
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19910263
A perfect posture held perfectly still becomes painful quite quickly. A “bad” posture is comfortable as long as you keep moving and fidgeting. So keep moving and don't worry too much about an idealized notion of posture from a 1950s deportment manual.
‘Climber's back’ - an immobile and kyphotic thoracic spine - is a recognized entity
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18651371
And there is a theoretically plausible association between an immobile thoracic spine and shoulder pain.
http://bmcmusculoskeletdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2474-11-135
Passive treatments (massage and manipulation) are unlikely to help an inflexible spine.
http://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2015.5647
Massage certainly makes you feel good and looser but if your fascia really had been broken up you'd be in casualty.
There is plenty of evidence that spinal mobility can improve following exercise in people with conditions like Ankylosing Spondylitis. There is not so much evidence in the healthy-but-a-bit-immobile but plenty of anecdotal reports.
Climbers should probably exercise to keep their thoracic spine mobile and stretch their pectoral muscles. A well-run Yoga class might help but you can easily do this by yourself if (big IF) you have the dedication. Dozens of videos out there to tell you what to do.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
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but you can easily do this by yourself if (big IF) you have the dedication.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 22, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
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If you'd helped me do this yesterday, instead of whining on the intardnet all day, you could
have joined me on the couch last night and slouched with a clear conscience.
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ruppell
climber
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Oct 22, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
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Nice Reilly, you actually put caution tape around some of it. lol
Gdavis, 53 posts and no ones told you to pull your head out of your ass yet? I know it helped mine. lol
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
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Maybe they did, it's hard to hear everyone with my... you get the idea.
;)
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