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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 17, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
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Just watched a film; "37 Days", about the 37 day run-up to WW I. Reminds me so much of the current world situation. Seemingly out of the blue, whether due to a cyber attack on Russia, or bombing of Damascus or who knows what? IMHO we could wake up any morning and find ourselves at war though few saw it coming.
here's a vid to get the conversation going. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PAnGdBVC0Q
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 17, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
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Very possibly, but the starting spark is at least as likely from within our own borders. Specifically, the TrumpCuppers who are going to try to burn the place down when he loses next month- who knows where that could lead, internationally.
And Trump is already fanning the flames of that fire.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
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the 37 day run-up to WW I. Reminds me so much of the current world situation
What, they had hackers before WWI? ;-)
Nothing changes except the details.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
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The escalation of rhetoric is curious from our gov't. Almost like they want a war with Russia, which of course is totally stupid.
Our current gov't has no idea what they're dealing with. Russia is no Libya, or Syria, which they screwed up.
I just hope the Russians realize that they're dealing with amateurs, and that we're not serious in our threats.
What they fuk are we threatening them for? For doing what? The NSA insider hacked the DNC, not Russians.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 17, 2016 - 05:03pm PT
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Putin ballcuppers for Trump/Pence.
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 17, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
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In my opinion it has already started in Syria and other ME areas. We have been fanning the flames for years now with our often conflicting support for various groups fighting there for equaly various reasons
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Oct 17, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
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I was 5 when the Cuban Missile crisis almost set off WW3.
It is amazing how close they got to launch when the CIA Director said "Maybe we can try a naval blockade"
So I guess the CIA got it right once in the 60'
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Oct 17, 2016 - 05:10pm PT
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We the citizens must resist this. There are hidden powers who profit greatly from war. We thought we learned our lesson from Vietnam but we went and got dragged into Iraq when we should have said NO.
When it comes, it will seem really logical but that will be a manufacture of the public relations people.
Civil war in the USA? The pattern is there but the will is not. Somewhat similar pattern to the Spanish Civil war going on right now; Fascists vs Commies.
NEVER kill anyone for politics. It's all a scam.
If someone wants you to kill others, take a hard look at who is paying them.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
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NEVER kill anyone for politics. It's all a scam.
If someone wants you to kill others, take a hard look at who is paying them.
Amen, brother....
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 17, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
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Could be. One never knows what the day will bring. Most of us have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. Can you personally stop WW111? Doubt it.
Can you make a difference in this world and on this planet? Yes! Get about the task.
Love, Forgive (very important) promote healing, and take care of the only planet we have. Make a conscious effort to do these things every day and the world WILL be a better place. lynnie....trying every day to walk the walk a little better than the day before. Cheers!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
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By the way, how many people here are aware of this administrations support for an ongoing $1 trillion project to massively enhance our nuclear warfighting capability?
Good Lord! Where do I start? With the 1 trillion dollars, or the thought of considering a nuclear war?
The people running our gov't will get many of us killed without regard it seems. It's all a college theoretical exercise to them? Just like Libya, Syria, and Iran. Everything they touch gets broken even worse!
This is NOT A F*#KING GAME, OR EXERCISE!!!
Again, the Russians are smart enough to realize they're dealing with amateur-hour idiots. I just hope they also realize there are protocols in place that still defend us from idiocy.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
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If you consider the fact that the people running our government don't even live in the United States, it starts to make allot more sense. This is all about the BRICS nations(stands for Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa), nations who want to not be involved with our financial system and dollar, since our banking system is so corrupt. Federal Reserve? Ask yourself who are they? They run our whol economy and money supply but they are not part of our government, and they will go to war to destroy the BRICS nations rather then let them start their own finance system.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Oct 17, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
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The use of tactical nukes and false flags have been the norm recently.
Funny Duck...
Curt
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
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If you consider the fact that the people running our government don't even live in the United States, it starts to make allot more sense. This is all about the BRICS nations(stands for Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa), nations who want to not be involved with our financial system and dollar, since our banking system is so corrupt. Federal Reserve? Ask yourself who are they? They run our whol economy and money supply but they are not part of our government, and they will go to war to destroy the BRICS nations rather then let them start their own finance system.
Ughh...I hate corruption and deceit!!!! Why are people so greedy? Why can't people just 'do the right thing'?
Integrity is dead in our leadership. Dead, dead, dead! We have lost our way. Integrity and honesty is our only hope.
It's shocking how much our government is getting away with in it's usurpation of it's Constitutional duties. They are unaccountable to any legal institutions. The DOJ, and now the FBI. Rotten!
This is not good for our country.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Oct 17, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
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In this country?
On a more serious note, I do believe if trump is elected we will end up in a nuke war.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Oct 17, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
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Good Grief
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
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On a more serious note, I do believe if trump is elected we will end up in a nuke war.
With who, China? A good reason to have Russia on your side in confidence, and in the UN Security Council.
Russia should be a very key ally of ours, if we were smart. We have a lot in common with Russia, except for Iran and Syria. But that's where diplomacy could HELP US, in dealing with them.
Putin would love to have us as an ally. And we would benefit immensely from it it IMO. China too, for that matter. But they need to reel in some of their shenanigans first. As should Russia.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Oct 17, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
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No. This has been another episode of simple answers to stupid questions.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
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Putin is strugglng to hold power.
BwaHaHaHaHa!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
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The oligarchs serve at PUTIN'S pleasure. The tail doesn't wag the dog in Russia.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Oct 17, 2016 - 07:48pm PT
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That ^^^^^^^^
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 17, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
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None of us know a f*#king true thing that's going on. Really. And even if you do figure it out, so what? Wadda gonna do about it? Best we worry about climbing and other "important' things and leave f*#ked up reality to corrupt politicians and the odd patriot in the mix. When it's your time it's your time to check out. Stop bitching. You've already outlived some fine folks. Bacher. Hershey. Bishop. Etc etc etc etc etc. Yer living in the best country on the planet. Enjoy it while you have it.
BTW, is there a "Countdown to Armageddon clock" other than this one that Barack set way the F back? http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 17, 2016 - 08:03pm PT
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Yes, we have so much in common with Russia, except Iran, Syria, Ukraine, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, The Baltics, the Arctic ... jezzus bluetrump...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
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None of us know a f*#king true thing that's going on
Well, Couch, speak for yerself. I've studied Russia for 40 years and I am unanimous in this:
they're really smart and their brains work differently than ours because they're not slaves to
our pissy puerile western Maslow's Hierarchy. You'll never outsmart them and you sure as
hell won't out-tough them. As we say in Chicago: they know how to go to the mattresses.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 17, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
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Hmmmm, this threads not that old and there is more war talk than peace talk. I do believe men thrive a bit on wars.....personal, professional and political.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 17, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
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Reilly said: "Well, Couch, speak for yerself. I've studied Russia for 40 years and I am unanimous in this:
they're really smart and their brains work differently than ours because they're not slaves to
our pissy puerile western Maslow's Hierarchy. You'll never outsmart them and you sure as
hell won't out-tough them. As we say in Chicago: they know how to go to the mattresses."
Meh, my cousin has a doctorate in Russian studies, is smarter than you, and speaks Russian and German fluently. He's been working for the gobment for a long time. Clearly he's an idiot. As am I.
Regards
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 17, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
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"I do believe men thrive a bit on wars.....personal, professional and political. "
Hoo-boy, you got that right...
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Oct 17, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
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What kind of question is this?
We have been continually at war since the War to End All Wars ended. ( 1918, for those of you keeping track) and it has hit every continent, except maybe Antarctica on a technicality.
There hasn't been one year when we didn't have troops fighting on foreign soil somewhere in the World.
And we have been at war 223 out of 239 years since 1776.
War is what we do.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
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BwaHaHaHa! Was yer cuz recruited by a certain organization based in Langley, Virginia,
Mr Know-Nothing? He's got me on the German but I'll see his Rooskie and raise him four
other languages. Capisce?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Oct 17, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
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No World War III. Zer russians haven't the money, resources, populace support, resounding motive, or allies for one. Russian's would be starving to near-death within 3 winters.
None of that stopped them from getting to Berlin in 1945. Except maybe for that resounding motive business... Of course the Soviet soldier's motivation was blind hatred of the Germans while Stalin's motive was another thing altogether.
Russian / Soviet leaders have demonstrated a singular willingness to let their people starve, freeze, whatever it takes to get the job done.
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splitter
Trad climber
HighwayToHell
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Oct 17, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
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"Babylon the great has fallen, has fallen..."
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Oct 17, 2016 - 11:09pm PT
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Reilly-
I am unanimous in this
What's the alternative for an individual declaration?
I've studied Russia for 40 years and I am unanimous in this:
they're really smart and their brains work differently than ours because they're not slaves to
our pissy puerile western Maslow's Hierarchy. You'll never outsmart them and you sure as
hell won't out-tough them. As we say in Chicago: they know how to go to the mattresses.
It took you 40 years of study to be this full of chit?
Oh man...
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Oct 18, 2016 - 04:41am PT
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A Nuclear Meltdown and Political Nightmare
The morning news is reporting that North Korea has announced it will launch a nuclear strike on Washington DC in retaliation for stiffer sanctions proposed by the UN. Military officials say there's no need to worry because North Korean missiles don't have the capability to strike that far into the continent, let alone to our west coast.
I walk up the hill behind my house a few minutes later with my dogs to see that the entire western skyline is lit up in flashes of white and bright orange. A huge mushroom cloud appears to the southeast, towering thousands of feet in the air.
Somewhere in a top-secret installation, thousands of feet below a mountain in Colorado, The president is cutting a steak into small bites. Slowly chewing a mouthful of the tender red meat, our fearless leader reaches down with a fork and pushes a pile of green leafy vegetables off the edge of the plate.
After awhile white flakes of ash begin to fall landing on my arm, itching and burning as I walk back to the house. A rash has already formed on my face and arms. An alarm goes off in the distance and I reach for the snooze.
The dream goes on and there we are on vacation. Jens, my willful and goofy stepbrother is visiting and staying with us at a house in the Lake Tahoe area. It's morning and we're all sitting on the porch enjoying coffee after breakfast. All the doors to the house are open, thanks to Jens, to air out the smoke from a burnt toast debacle. Suddenly we hear pots and pans rattling and we look in to see a large bear hovering over and scarfing down some leftovers at the stove area.
Jens, with his sandy mop, foolishly walks over and stands directly behind the big fella, ready to intervene. In the calmest voice I can muster I say, "Jens, back away from that bear right now, he's ready to take a swipe at you and it'll lay you open."
A large growl erupts as I prepare for the worst. I wake to the sound of my wife snoring. The alarm buzzes and I reach to hit the snooze button again.
A worker in a casino gets off his shift. On the way out he stops to gamble at a nearby slot machine. Mysteriously, a small hand reaches out and drops in a token. The worker looks up at the generous mystery person. Surprisingly, Donald Trump is standing there.
"Good luck," he says.
"I hope you win, then you can buy the whole place.
And by way (pause), you're fired."
Gratefully, I wake up, this time without the alarm.
-bushman
10/18/2016
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bobyway
Gym climber
UK
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Oct 18, 2016 - 04:56am PT
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I seriously hope we are smart enough to not have another war...
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John M
climber
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Oct 18, 2016 - 06:03am PT
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has anyone else listened to that interview of Dr. Paul Craig Roberts? I regret to say that I am woefully ignorant of the situation in Syria but what Dr. Roberts says seems plausible to me. I do believe that there is a kind of insanity going on in America.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Oct 18, 2016 - 06:12am PT
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Just a ray of sunshine this thread.
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John M
climber
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Oct 18, 2016 - 06:25am PT
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After listening to the Dr. Roberts interview that Rockermike linked. I listened to the al-Assad interview.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Charlie Rose is a moron. I've known for some time that our media is biased and full of fools, but dang.
I like this guy al-Assad. He doesn't equivocate like most US politicians do. He answers questions.
I realize that its only 2 interviews, but something sure seems whack with what we are doing and how it is being reported.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Oct 18, 2016 - 08:02am PT
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has anyone else listened to that interview of Dr. Paul Craig Roberts? I regret to say that I am woefully ignorant of the situation in Syria but what Dr. Roberts says seems plausible to me. I do believ
Admittedly I didn't listen to the whole thing, but what I heard sounded like Roberts was defending Russia.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 18, 2016 - 08:09am PT
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John M
You know as well as I that Americans have and are brainwashed to the hilt by their corporate mainstream media.
We observe this daily here as the fools unknowingly parroting their global Corporate masters whom they simultaneously reject.
Stoopid stoopid ignorant unconscious people ......
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Oct 18, 2016 - 08:36am PT
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Trump has economic ties to Russia, his former campaign manager was a paid lobbyist for Russia and now all the kooks are coming out of the woodwork singing the praises of Russia. I wonder why? How many of these as#@&%es have investments in Russia? How many of these as#@&%es are on Russia's payroll?
If you idiots could read between the lines- We are currently lapping Russia in every regard; Advanced weaponry, technology, energy, economically, culturally- EVERYTHING.
Putin is throwing a global ego tantrum right now as would Trump if he were heading a crumbling failed state.
And China owns half our debt so they're not about to do anything to jeopardize their investments.
Duck- you're intellectually owned by an alternate fringe ideology that is narrow-minded and moronic.
For all the haters, alarmist and kooks out there- Ever heard of Iwo Jima and Hiroshima? the US military was smaller than Portugal's prior to World War II.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 18, 2016 - 10:25am PT
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Tami, "lack of empathy" in many circles is known as ' tough love'.
In Russia they're fond of saying "no pain-no gain" or, for Couch's
benefit, a corollary idiom is "Madame Paltsev* has a strong grip."
*sorry, Madame Palm to you
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John M
climber
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Oct 18, 2016 - 10:42am PT
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Admittedly I didn't listen to the whole thing, but what I heard sounded like Roberts was defending Russia.
He wasn't necessarily defending Russia. He was saying that there would be no reason for them to do the things they are said to have done. Such as blowing up that aid convoy. That convoy passed through lines controlled by them. If they didn't want the convoy to go where it was going, they could have stopped it. Blowing it up only makes them look bad. As much as we want to demonize them, they aren't that stupid. Yet we fall for these kinds of propaganda put forth to propagate an agenda. He gives a few other examples of propaganda that just don't make much sense. Such as calling bombs used in Syria "barrel bombs", which are bombs literally made in a barrel. The theory put forth is that only the Syrian army could be using barrel bombs because they require a helicopter to be dropped from. The president of Syria counters that by saying they have a modern army. They have no need to make something crude like a barrel bomb. They only reason to call something a barrel bomb, is to make the Syrian army look crude and to make them look evil for bombing their own people. The president goes on to say that there would be no purpose in that, as sense theirs is a democracy and he has been elected twice, that its the people he serves.
HFCS on another thread put up a video of a professor explaining what happens when a school switches its focus from being on finding Truth, to a search for moral justice. What happens is a kind of ideology grows up where one group is demonized. He gave all kinds of examples. That sounded just like what we have done to countries like Russia. Is Russia perfect? I do not believe so. At the same time, I believe we go too far with how we treat them. Doing so is done at our peril. Dr. Roberts believes that we have never been closer to a nuclear war then we are right now. I don't know if that is true or not, but I do agree that some of his points seem cogent. That of course depends on each of his beliefs being true. If even one is not true, then his argument falls apart. That is why I wanted more people to watch the entire video. He is extreme, but perhaps we are in extreme times. He acknowledges in the end being extreme.
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Oct 18, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
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the good things about nukes exchange that they know that Kremlin and White House would be first targets and this f*#kers who planning to go to war have some chances to die. This can save us from WW3
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Oct 18, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
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It's because Syria ruined Beirut when it was one of the best and most integrated cities in the world. The Ass-hats occupied Lebanon for 30 years. 'member? In Syria it was emergency law from 1963-2011.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Oct 18, 2016 - 01:12pm PT
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the good things about nukes exchange that they know that Kremlin and White House would be first targets and this f*#kers who planning to go to war have some chances to die. This can save us from WW3 Do not worry about them. As far as I know both Obama and Putin have helicopters ready to move them away in case of a nuclear attack.
Let's take a look at the following scenario:
1. Americans hit Syrian army one more time (as they have already promised)
2. Russians shoot down one or more US planes (as they have already promised in case #1 happens)
3. Americans hit Russian bases in Syria (as they have already promised in case #2 happens)
4. What would Putin do in this situation?
What do you think?
To help you answer this question I can provide a bit of information on Putin.
a. Putin likes his job.
b. He can keep his job as long as he want if he meet expectations of Russian people
c. Russians are suspicious of American intentions when they move troops closer to the borders of Russia
d. If Putin retreats after #3, he would lose his job.
e. Current Russian military doctrine includes limited use of nuclear weapons when defending against an attack by a stronger enemy.
So what is your guess?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 18, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
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The Mosul offensive is well underway now. Kurds and US Spec Ops are covering the North and Eastern escape routes. The Iraqi forces are moving in from the south, along with some Shia militias in the west.
The Kurds are being told to stop before entering the city, and defend their positions.Along with US troops.
The Iragis are supposed to move through the city and drive ISIS through a northwestern corridor where they will be allowed to flee into Syria.
I hope that something has been coordinated to our Russian friends to be waiting for convoys of ISIS on this 'corridor'. Turkey shoot!
That's what I've read. About ISIS ops in Mosul. Apparently the ISIS lines are falling fast, but when they're cornered, remember Uday and Qussay Hussein?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Oct 18, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
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Just watched a film; "37 Days", about the 37 day run-up to WW I. Reminds me so much of the current world situation. Seemingly out of the blue, whether due to a cyber attack on Russia, or bombing of Damascus or who knows what? IMHO we could wake up any morning and find ourselves at war though few saw it coming.
here's a vid to get the conversation going. :)
We're already waging war around the globe. The US MIC is completely unhinged and one of the biggest war-mongering puppets is about to be crowned.
Reminds me of when Bush got crowned the second time. Sad days. But it's a different color jersey this time so the proles don't see it.
Part of the problem is the complete and total lack of non-state run MSM outlets now. So the people that watch and read this nonsense are entirely distracted. To find little kernels of truth takes enormous amounts of time which most people either don't have or maybe most just don't want to see it.
Without a major world war, the almighty dollar becomes kindling sooner rather than later.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 18, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
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We're already waging war around the globe. The US MIC is completely unhinged and one of the biggest war-mongering puppets is about to be crowned.
Reminds me of when Bush got crowned the second time. Sad days. But it's a different color jersey this time so the proles don't see it.
Part of the problem is the complete and total lack of non-state run MSM outlets now. So the people that watch and read this nonsense are entirely distracted. To find little kernels of truth takes enormous amounts of time which most people either don't have or maybe most just don't want to see it.
Without a major world war, the almighty dollar becomes kindling sooner rather than later.
Having a hard time disagreeing with any of this. I have some issues that maybe Saddam should have been removed the first time, but that's a different chess-game. The whole Iran/Iraq dynamic would have changed then, instead of now. I'll digress...
EDIT: TGT2, that was obviously done to thumb our noses at the Russians. What's the range of an S-300 or S-400 SAM? I know the Global Hawks can loiter at 70K feet, that's far up!!!
What do we do when they embarrass us by shooting one down? I don't think this was a good move. Better to reach out and coordinate attacks on our common enemy. ISIS.
After that we talk about the 'new' Syria. Assad will prolly stay. But with "concessions".
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 18, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
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It's also about f*#king time the badass Kurds get their own piece of the pie!!!!
These scrappy bastards are the only worthy ones in the whole area. They ALWAYS stand up on our side, sometimes against Turks too, but whatever...
The Kurds deserve their own Northern piece of Iraq. They have fought for it more bravely than the Iraqi Army pussies who dropped the weapons we gave them and fled!
The Kurds always hold fast. They derseve this! Mosul would have to be negotiable, unfortunately.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Oct 19, 2016 - 12:42am PT
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EDIT: TGT2, that was obviously done to thumb our noses at the Russians. What's the range of an S-300 or S-400 SAM? I know the Global Hawks can loiter at 70K feet, that's far up!!!
Well, Gary Powers was at about 70,000 feet when he was shot down by an SA-2 56 years ago.
We didn't think the Soviets had anything that could go that high.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 19, 2016 - 07:36am PT
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If Trump wins, then Putin knows, definitively, that he can take us.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:00am PT
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Dingus,
Ed Abbey may have said it best:
"growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."
And no, there's no certainty that World War Three is coming.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:03am PT
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And no, there's no certainty that World War Three is coming.
Meanwhile the illusioned have no clue that WWIII has been ongoing now for 15 years .......
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:09am PT
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Werner, we all love you, at least in person. But man you are such a nut-case on this forum.
You need to get out of The Valley a little more. Why don't you join me at Pinnacles for the Pinnacles Climber Appreciation Days this weekend? I'll pick you up for the drive there on Friday?
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:24am PT
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Meanwhile the illusioned have no clue that WWIII has been ongoing now for 15 years .......
That explains all those mushroom clouds everywhere...
Curt
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:26am PT
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Conventional thinking due to illusion always believes war is just physical ......
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:31am PT
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Conventional thinking due to illusion always believes war is just physical ......
As opposed to the theoretical, hypothetical, metaphorical kind of war.
Curt
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:34am PT
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Russia’s Defense Ministry has cautioned the US-led coalition of carrying out airstrikes on Syrian army positions, adding in Syria there are numerous S-300 and S-400 air defense systems up and running.
Russia currently has S-400 and S-300 air-defense systems deployed to protect its troops stationed at the Tartus naval supply base and the Khmeimim airbase. The radius of the weapons reach may be “a surprise” to all unidentified flying objects, Russian Defense Ministry spokesperson General Igor Konashenkov said.
According to the Russian Defense Ministry, any airstrike or missile hitting targets in territory controlled by the Syrian government would put Russian personnel in danger.
The defense official said that members of the Russian Reconciliation Center in Syria are working “on the ground” delivering aid and communicating with a large number of communities in Syria.
“Therefore, any missile or air strikes on the territory controlled by the Syrian government will create a clear threat to Russian servicemen.”
“Russian air defense system crews are unlikely to have time to determine in a ‘straight line’ the exact flight paths of missiles and then who the warheads belong to. And all the illusions of amateurs about the existence of ‘invisible’ jets will face a disappointing reality,” Konashenkov added.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:35am PT
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As opposed to the theoretical, hypothetical, metaphorical kind of war.
Nobody said anything like this.
This is your brainwashed stupid uneducated projection ......
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:41am PT
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The US has no reason to be in Syria anyway.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:43am PT
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Did you just write that, c wilmot?
You....the same guy who regularly excoriates Obama for weak foreign policy....for not going after ISIS enough...
Did you really just write that?
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:47am PT
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we are not going after ISIS. we are against Assad- Syrias president who is the only power fighting ISIS full on. our actions in Syria have consisted of aiding the islamic terrorist groups we call "rebels" who are often intertwined or fully aligned with ISIS. Why is that?
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:50am PT
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Werner, we all love you, at least in person. But man you are such a nut-case on this forum.
Batshit crazy, in fact.
Curt
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 19, 2016 - 08:54am PT
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The US has no reason to be in Syria anyway.
Especially when you can play in the sand at Chiriaco Summit!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 19, 2016 - 09:20am PT
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we are not going after ISIS
Which branch do you serve in? Rank? Must be pretty high to sit in on all the security briefings.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 19, 2016 - 11:53am PT
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There are folks who would say that the policies of all u.s. Presidents with regard to the entire Middle East and Vietnam have been crap.
Sticking with the Middle East has any one seen an enlightening discussion of the alternatives ?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 19, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
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Back to Rockermike's original post. I've always had a particular interest in World War I and its origins. You had someone who figured he had nothing to lose by destabilizing an already tense situation (Princip and his cohorts in the Black Hand Society) and a superpower or three (Austria/Hungary, Russia and Germany) who miscalculated both their military strength and the reaction of the rest of the world and -- voila! Not only Europe, but much of the rest of the world was slaughtering each other because, essentially, Austria/Hungary lost face and had to confront its own fading importance.
Let's see. We have Russia acting provocatively not only in Ukraine, but in the Baltics. We have China creating islands of influence, shall we say. We have little North Korea trying to act like one of the "big boys." We have the former Ottoman Empire still about as unstable as it was 100 years ago. And we have enjoyed an unparalleled peace and prosperity in the western world, at least, since World War II.
It sounds distressingly familiar to me. Is WWIII imminent? I don't know, and I hope not, but we need to be very careful about involving ourselves in situations where intractible conflicts can result in massive escalation of hostilities.
The current Syrian situation doesn't differ all that much from the Balkans in 1914. I, for one, remain grateful that the Obama administration backed away from its bellicose rhetoric. Our government had little clue about what was really going on, and outside involvement has already destroyed what was, at the start of this decade, a largely middle class nation. We could have made it - and the world - even worse.
John
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 19, 2016 - 12:22pm PT
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The US has been the aggressor in Ukraine. Obama openly admitted he "brokered a deal" to transition power from the former democratically elected president to the criminals we supported. Considering Russia's deep ties to Ukraine its no surprise they saw our actions as provocative and responded accordingly by occupying Crimea. Sadly the US people are mostly unaware of these things as our propaganda based media has ignored the fact our gov supported an illegal coup of a democratically elected leader. And to think- we have many upset Russia might be messing with OUR elections...
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Oct 19, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
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C wilmot has been paying attention.... :)
I'd add that Russia moved (after our coup to overthrow Putin's puppet) into the Ukraine ONLY to take Crimea to retain their only port to the South on the Black Sea. That huge and bold move also reportedly cost no lives. Imagine the USA making such a bold move. You'd be able to stack the bodies like cordwood.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Oct 19, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
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The US has been the aggressor in Ukraine. Obama openly admitted he "brokered a deal" to transition power from the former democratically elected president to the criminals we supported. Considering Russia's deep ties to Ukraine its no surprise they saw our actions as provocative and responded accordingly by occupying Crimea. Sadly the US people are mostly unaware of these things as our propaganda based media has ignored the fact our gov supported an illegal coup of a democratically elected leader. And to think- we have many upset Russia might be messing with OUR elections...
At this point, what difference does it make? Ukraine is a fully sovereign nation. It doesn't matter how deep one's countries ties to another are.
c wilmot, you are making the case that most of the western US should revert back to Mexican sovereignty.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 19, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
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By the way, how many people here are aware of this administrations support for an ongoing $1 trillion project to massively enhance our nuclear warfighting capability?
I actually attended a conference on this issue.
I would have been opposed on the face of it, but the issues seemed compelling.
The technology involved is 70 years old. Think about the technological things around that are that old: dial telephone?
And many of the actual bombs are ACTUALLY 70 years old. Think about about that 70 year old bridge, or television. How safe and dependable are they?
We don't test detonate them anymore, so what's your best GUESS??
The latest generation as of a few years ago are designed when they are built, so that they can only go nuclear at the GPS coordinates and altitude that they've been built to explode. Anywhere else, they are a dud. If they are attempted to be opened, they explode (but not nuclear). They disarm and become unusable after a certain period of time (10 years? 20 years?) if not reset. Many safeguards are built in that didn't exist previously. Better shielding. Better monitoring. Basically unusable if stolen.
Note that this has been supported by both parties, and all administrations. It is a non-partisan issue.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 19, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
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Rather then nuclear disarmament, and working together with the whole world to make it a better place for all?
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Oct 20, 2016 - 11:19am PT
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Two hundred years ago, there was a system in place to deal with the tapeworms in government. It was called the field of honor. They would be called out to defend their bullshit in a duel. They either died or were discraced. Those who were willing to put their own life on the chopping block to back up their talk sometimes won. Either way, the cowards we have running things today would not have persevered. People who defrauded their nation were hanged or beheaded. It may have been unjust and violent. But there were CONSEQUENCES for those who played the game and fukced up. Now there are lucrative seats on corporate boards and bloated pensions for those who betray our country.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 27, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
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Crikey, this thread has the highest stupid, hysteria and nutjobbery index per page of any thread I've seen in ages.
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John M
climber
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Oct 27, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
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Reagan was honest?
Mercy.. you have definitely been in Texas too long.
Reagan was folksy and down home. That doesn't translate to honesty.
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John M
climber
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Oct 27, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
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comparing presidencies in that matter is useless. Putin was not president during reagans period.
I am in no way saying that Obama is a good president. Or particularly persuasive. I don't believe that he is. I especially didn't like his superior tone in that speech he did at a university. Someone linked it recently. I'm sorry, I don't know where. It rubbed me the wrong way. It didn't sound presidential to me.
But then saying that reagan was honest just does not compute.
You can start with Iran contra. Which he denied up until he didn't. Kind of like Bill Clinton.
Edit: You added some stuff. Sorry.. I was responding to your comment that he was honest.
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John M
climber
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Oct 27, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
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fair enough.. it just rubbed me the wrong way.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Oct 27, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
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Crikey, this thread has the highest stupid, hysteria and nutjobbery index per page of any thread I've seen in ages.
lol.... still asleep eh? Stay that way, it's much better.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 27, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
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Quite the contrary, I'm awake with my eyes open and common sense intact - you lot are asleep in a fantasy incapable of telling the real world from the bullshit that passes for your imagination.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 27, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
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Coming from you such a blow hard, that's a laugh.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 27, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
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And coming from an absolute master of fantasy and a dervish of make believe like yourself I can't take that as anything but a complement.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 27, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
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I don't believe that we are, nor is it a realistic possibility.
The uprising of international corporations, and international trade makes a WWII style war far too expensive (except perhaps for arms companies).
War for war's sake is not really an option for most regimes. Facing a nuclear war, I think the executive heading down that road (MADD), would be assassinated.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 27, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
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Stupid people.
World War doesn't mean Nuclear weapons are going to be involved.
So much brainwashing in America it's unbelievable .....
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2016 - 11:18pm PT
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another discussion (a little dated), but more from the perspective of western liberalism.... but anyway, for what its worth
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Oct 28, 2016 - 11:21pm PT
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We will get in a nuclear war....
With North Korea.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 29, 2016 - 12:06am PT
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We will get in a nuclear war
LOL, that will be a short war. Might not be good for the people in
S Korea or Japan, but it would still be short. Lil Kim knows that and
he would much rather stuff his pie hole and watch Bruce Lee movies than
risk that.
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