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Avery
climber
New Zealand
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 4, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
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I've been struggling lately with thoughts of suicide. Am I capable of going through with it? I have no idea.
Some useful thoughts would be invaluable
I think the standard roll-call of pseudo comedians should skip this one.
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Mule Skinner
Social climber
Bishop
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It will get better my friend hang in there.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Any Major Dude Will Tell You
Steely Dan
I never seen you looking so bad my funky one
You tell me that your superfine mind has come undone
Any major dude with half a heart surely will tell you my friend
Any minor world that breaks apart falls together again
When the demon is at your door
In the morning it won't be there no more
Any major dude will tell you
Have you ever seen a squonk's tears? Well, look at mine
The people on the street have all seen better times
Any major dude with half a heart surely will tell you my friend
Any minor world that breaks apart falls together again
When the demon is at your door
In the morning it won't be there no more
Any major dude will tell you
I can tell you all I know, the where to go, the what to do
You can try to run but you can't hide from what's inside of you
Any major dude with half a heart surely will tell you my friend
Any minor world that breaks apart falls together again
When the demon is at your door
In the morning it won't be there no more
Any major dude will tell you
....and pray!
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Please give this some consideration.
Curt
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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I've heard that people with these thoughts might feel that it would be a help to others if they were gone. The opposite is true.
They say "trust your feelings" but this does not work. Feelings, emotions, knowing, can come from dark places.
Odd that the human mind, designed to serve our survival should conclude to not survive.
Finding ways to change, hit the reset button, on life are far better.
Change your space or change your knowledge. Moving to another town, country, etc. can be like a new life. Easy for others to say if you are feeling totally trapped. But consider this before taking your life. It is no way out of the trap. The demons that haunt you simply follow you to the next life.
If you can go someplace and find yourself, and build yourself up bigger and stronger than the, voice, or thought process, whatever it is telling you to end it.
Life is a game, event though it can get very serious. Play it to win.
I hope this helps. I have no exeperience with what you are experiencing.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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As much as most of us want to help you, there might be some local resources who are better at it than us. Please try calling some of these folks near you:
http://www.suicide.org/hotlines/international/new-zealand-suicide-hotlines.html
It seems like a major positive step that you have the courage to reach out here and ask us for help. With that character attribute I think you have the courage to overcome whatever makes your life not seem like it is worth living. You do have the power to find something worth living for, something that holds meaning and value for you, and inviting other people into your life to help find that will lead to better things.
Sometimes you have to crawl through the darkness to find the light, but it is there for you to find. Good luck.
One day at a time, sometimes one hour or one minute at a time. Just keep stacking them together.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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*
Avery, I am so sorry you are struggling.. Is there a suicide hotline in New Zealand?
This is a website and number for a suicide hotline in the U.S. http://psychcentral.com/helpme.htm
I really hope you can get some help...Hang on..
[Click to View YouTube Video]
The futures paved with better days.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Saludos
Nita..
edit, Thanks Nutjob...I was looking up music when you posted .
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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not sure if this will be helpful, but here is what i wish someone might have told me:
don't fight or deny them... rather accept them and if you are able, maybe even try to be curious about them... breathe and allow yourself to feel whatever it is that you feel.
when one is physically hungry, one doesn't tell oneself that they shouldn't feel hunger.
yet when we are emotionally/spiritually struggling we often pile on and tell ourselves that we shouldn't feel what we are inevitably feeling...
it is okay to feel hunger.
just as it is okay to struggle.
while occasionally people do die of starvation... the vast vast majority of time we do find food.
but one can't find food, if one doesn't accept that they feel hunger...
[all the best A.]
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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We've never met, but I'd like to. I very much enjoy your contributions here. I had the thoughts many years ago, even loaded the pistol. My brother would be so devastated. My Mom too. My friends as well. I felt the sensation of that first morning breath out of the tent where your sinus freezes. I'd miss that. A knee deep powder run, i'd miss those too. The naked embrace of a lover I'd yet to meet. For sure would miss that...
You can rally through this pitch. I know you can.
Reaching out is a good first step. Google up your local/regional/national suicide hotline and give them a call. Please.
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ThomasKeefer
Trad climber
San Diego
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Please reach out to someone who has been where you are now - Many have and are so much better for it now.
Change your environment - determine who is most important to you and who you think you are most important to and how much your decisions can affect them!
Wishing you the best!
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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You are a needed and valued member of this community.
Todd
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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If you go through with it, it will hurt all of those who love you a lot more than it will help you. In the after death state, you will feel restless and remorseful until you reincarnate, and eventually you have to face similar circumstances, until you pass that test. As a spiritual being with unlimited potential, you are on the way to Infinite Bliss consciousness, and a suicide in any given incarnation will set you back, and delay your eventual merging in ever new, infinite happiness.
Even this community needs you, and would not be the same without you. You are a member of our Super Topo family, and we want you to continue to be in this family, so please hang in there!!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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dude. don't ditch us! i dig your contributions here.
keep riding this wave, it's the only one we've got!
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Yes, seek professional help ASAP. You can't do it yourself. And you can and will get better.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Please, please contact a suicide hotline, or other counseling. The feelings of darkness are not invincible. This is another crux: there are ways around or through it.
Also: what others here have said. Patience is a virtue, and you won't know how it turns out if you are not here to see. I do not know you but I value your contributions to this forum. That may seem a small or insignificant thing but I assure you that it is not. Many here are changed and inspired by your continuing presence.
Your threads on alpine climbing are some of the best on the 'topo, which means the best on the web, which means the best anywhere. You know what climbing means, and what the narrative of climbing means. How it can change people, change the way we think. That is value that you add to this community and it is irreplaceable.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Tomorrow is a new day, full of endless possibilities. None of which you can experience if you're not here.
It might be sh#t, or you might happen upon a single leaf in the forest that speaks to your soul and changes your life.
Try something new. Call an old friend. Invite someone you know out to do something they and/or you normally wouldn't. Re-read an old familiar favorite book. Remind yourself that life is good, and there are things to enjoy. Make it a goal to find one good thing every day, no matter how small, that you think is good, and build on that.
Tied your shoelaces right? One point. Beautiful sunrise? Bonus. Called a friend to invite them out but they declined? Meh. You made an effort, so bonus point.
Day didn't turn out how you thought/hoped/expected? It's ok. You've still got tomorrow. It won't be the same, not if you don't let it. All you have to do is change one thing, anything, and the whole world could change. The only really tricky thing about it is that nobody else is likely to do it for you, so you have to decide to do it. Maybe take up coloring. Seriously. You just never know.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Good advice from some mighty good people.
Patrick, there is away through the tunnel. There are many good professionals who can help you get through. You've got some damn good living, loving and sharing to do.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Consider giving these folks a chance to talk with you:
LifeLine Christchurch telephone counselling service provides 24 hours a day, 7 days a week counselling and support. Call+64 3-366 6742 or 111.
http://www.lifeline.org.nz/corp_Home_378_2001.aspx
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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we love you so don't do it!
there is somebody else that loves you no matter what, don't matter where you are or what you did or what time it is,
this can be hard to believe when you are hurting, but it is true.
what is your purpose in life? it is to help other people. try to find somebody to help, it will get you outside of yourself.
let the sh#t float downstream, don't wade out into the mess because it will drown you.
take a step back and don't struggle.
and realize that you are not alone, we all have problems and some of us have even had the same thoughts that you are having,
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Things must feel appalling right now, but you must want to give life a chance or you wouldn't have posted here.
Folks on ST can help only so much, are those who love you, your friends and companions there aware of your feelings, or have you been keeping it quiet? They may be oblivious to your turmoil. Let them help.....
And do get some support from professionals. You can work your way through this, really.
Hang in there, look after yourself.
Steve
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kk1982
Trad climber
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First, I don't know you personally but I commend you for reaching out to us. It's a good first step. My little sister killed herself without telling a living soul she was even struggling; this is/was the single worst event in my life and the rest of my family. Sounds like you're walking through Hell right now>>>> KEEP WALKING
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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I'm not Not simpatico
I'm not Not sympathetic
I'm not going to coddle you
I want to be cool but
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
If you spent the time it took to post reading the reports on here,
you might kick what's eating you.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2849198/Looking-for-help
There are more, all as filled with pathos and support.
At least 7 or more death notices in the 1st few pages .
I'm not going to link them
Read every one. Of those. Go to the first post of The Flames thread.
From there go back and read the links there.
I was very tempted to, Only post the links to all the Tragedies.
I'm not sure you would have understood
Given that you. . .
have. . . . A Learning curve, a history?
that makes it understood,
your flip of the switch
Pushing buttons ones been told not to touch.
( killing thoughts as practice for a grand act? What a waste)
Your id, your ego, needs HELP?
Yes! that seems the universally agreed point.
Get Professional help, certified by successful treatment of . . .
That is what your cry for help yells at me.
As for couching this in sweet leaves? Not effin way!
Buck the fuk up! Harden th buck up.
We all walk on, and take the lows with hopes that there will be some highs
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Sorry you're struggling Avery.
This ST group is rooting for you. Take the advice...keep walking and seek help that is closer and accessible to you! Do it now, don't wait.
We all need help at times. Sounds like it's your turn.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Patrick,
If life seems like it's only a source of pain,
try to refocus on things you enjoy, and reconnect with people who love you.
If you suffer from depression, find a good therapist.
There are also often effective drugs, and it may take time to find one that works for you, so get started if you haven't already.
If you are not sure if you have depression, get a diagnosis.
If you are hurting, it's normal to consider a wide range of options to solve the problem.
Please get some help in finding better options than suicide - you have many years left to do good things!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Yes, seek professional help ASAP. You can't do it yourself. And you can and will get better.
Ditto that.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Patrick,
Our correspondences on researching some of Tobin's climbing photos and local climbing history there have been a bright spot for each of us. Your work as a climbing historian is also. You have so many positive contributions yet to make.
Hang in there, friend. There are nothing but sage words here to be read by all. I particularly like the idea making lists of positive things yet to be in our lives, we can always find them if we try. Negatives have outweighed every survivor at one point or another. Our scars (inside and out) become the roadside memories of our lives. Do not linger at the treacherous ones. Ask for good orderly direction.
-Tim
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Avery
Go see a professional. NOW!
I've been where you are, and it helps. It may not
be immediate, but they can do wonders.
If you want to talk further, pm me and I'd be glad to
share with you.
Hang in there.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Avery,
Hugs and hope the hurt lessens for you.
Jon
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michae1
Gym climber
san jose
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there is beauty all around us , sometimes pain in its many forms does not allow us to see
but it is there , sometimes in the littlest of things a sweet memory, a quick look at those who are around us, let not the regrets of the past rob you of a future no matter how long or short
the sunrise of a new day brings with it a new chance
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Hey, Aves, it's clear that we love you and I'm sure there are plenty in Kiwiland who do, too. You just need to talk to people to see how much you're valued. Hang around and post up some more of your fabulous threads, mate!
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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The good news is you realized something isn't right in your head....
Tiny little amounts of chemicals out of balance can cause us to do crazy things. They can also be fixed. But realize it can pass and will.
Call any local counseling service you can find and say exactly what you posted.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Instead of imagining how "others" would feel, try imagining the depth of the OP's despair. It's easy to say "things will get better" or "people love you", but if you haven't been in that kind of dark place in your lives, you can't really imagine where the OP is at.
Life is shitty and f*#ked up at times. The hard part is trying to figure out how to rearrange our lives and the people in our world to bring us the most joy and happiness. The worst part is feeling that we are alone while we have so many people around us.
As others have said, find a good therapist. It will pay dividends as it has for me and I've seen one for years. It's not magic, but a long journey. Don't see a psychiatrist just yet. Most work from a "medical model" and not all are therapists. The thought processes that fuel your despair are what need to be changed. Call a suicide hotline as they will be your best bet to connect you to local resources.
Good luck. We're all rooting for you. :)
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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I'm not in any way a professional and don't know how to give the right kind of help but others have responsibily chimed in with thoughts.
I'm in your corner. I want you to be here. On this earth.
Susan
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Avery,
I'm sorry that you're hurting. Please hang in there.
As others have said, please seek professional help -- a therapist, and possibly a psychiatrist. (Better living through chemistry!) If one therapist doesn't help, try another.
If at some point you're tempted to do the deed, please call a suicide hotline such as 0800 543 354.
Here's a link with other New Zealand helplines:
https://www.mentalhealth.org.nz/get-help/in-crisis/helplines/
An mentor of mine once said that sometimes it's all he can do to get through the day. When you feel bad, I hope you'll concentrate on getting through the day.
Please be gentle to yourself. Even the parts of you that want to turn on you probably arise from some place of concern. Try to listen to those voices with compassion, but know that their negativity comes from emotions such as worry or fear or disappointment rather than reflecting some truth about the world. Things will get better, or you will come to see the hard parts in a different way. Take care.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Give fewer f*#ks.
Eat popcorn
Watch the carnage all around
It's a clown show
A demolition derby
Get an exclamation point tattoo
On your dong.
Offing yourself
Is awfully polite.
F*#k polite.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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You are reaching out.
A part of you wants to stay here. Nurture that part by doing.
Staying busy is an important way to combat depression.
I'm not suggesting you are depressed, but passing on ideas, if in fact you are.
I don't think one has to necessarily be depressed to have suicidal thoughts.
Suicidal thoughts can be a pressure relief valve. It is a method of coping.
Direct yourself towards the things that have brought you joy in the past.
Focus on the things you have cared for.
The joy and love you have given others is still there. Call a friend.
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couchmaster
climber
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Avery, thank you for reaching out. You matter man, you matter. Please speak up to your close loved ones - anyone who talks about suicide or shows other warning signs needs immediate help—the sooner the better. Talking to a friend or family member about your suicidal thoughts and feelings can be extremely difficult for anyone, if you can't do that try giving them some long hugs, and please dial any of the phone numbers given out above. Remember too that the good things you love, bright sunshine and pretty flowers, will be here tomorrow when these dark clouds pass you by. Hang in there.
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WBraun
climber
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He hasn't said one word since his original post ......
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John M
climber
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Hey Avery..
Well, I'm not sure how to approach this. The last time we tried to talk away from the forum didn't go so well, so I'm not sure if you even want to hear from me. but on the off chance that some of this will help you, I would like to give it a go. Because even if we butt heads, I would still want to help.
So here goes.
First off.. I agree with everyone who says get professional help. The reason for that advice is because the issues of feeling suicidal are serious and the consequences of not getting treatment can be permanent. We have just had an example of that with the young man Tanner, who recently killed himself. He is gone and now his family and friends are hurting. I won't go deeply into the tangent of how that will also affect you, but I will say this, that I agree with the person who talked about reincarnation. I believe in reincarnation. So I believe that killing yourself will not really help you. It will be a temporary relief of a longer term problem.
But whether you believe in reincarnation or not, you still have an issue that you are dealing with now, and based on my experience, it can be complicated, and thus requires professional help. If I remember correctly, you have gotten professional help in the past. And since you still have issues, then you probably have lost some faith in its effectiveness. Here is the thing. Depending on how entrenched your issues are, it can take more then one kind of therapy to really attain any kind of long lasting peace. I have been working on my issues for 40+ years and its only been recently that things have finally seemed to be coming together.
I do not say this to discourage you. 40+ years doesn't mean that all of those years were hell. They weren't. I had many many great experiences that I would have missed if I had killed myself in my teens when I first started seriously dealing with depression and suicidal thoughts. And though some days I despair, and many days I wanted to chuck it all, I am grateful that I didn't, because there have been some awesome things that I have been able to experience, such as meeting some incredible people, that I wouldn't have had if I had killed myself all those years ago. And today I can say that even though I still occasionally get morose, I now rarely feel suicidal and often instead feel peace. So that is a blessing. And the added blessing is that I haven't killed myself and so haven't subjected my friends and family to that devastation. And even though during some of the early years of my dealing with this I didn't believe my family would be hurt by my killing myself, as I have learned to love myself, I have come to see that my family does love me, though they may not be very good at expressing it, and that it would have devastated my parents if I had killed myself. So I am very grateful that I have been able to persevere through this. And perseverance is the right word, because that is what it has taken. A whole lot of perseverance.
As for you, there is no way without knowing you in person and getting to know you a whole lot better, that I or anyone could discern just how much perseverance it will take for you to find full and complete relief, because without knowing you more fully, one can't know just how deeply entrenched your issues are, or how intertwined they are with your identity and so how much work will be required to disengage and find your True Self. For that is in my belief, where True Peace exists. In finding your True Self. And though it can be a difficult journey, it is a worthwhile goal. No great mountain was climbed without some level of difficulty. The journey of finding your True Self is worth it. And no one here can tell you just how far you have to go.
There are many here on this forum who have dealt with depression and feelings of suicide. Some did not make it. For each though that is making it, their answers vary widely because no one if the same, and thus what works for one, may not work for another. That is why there are so many different types of therapies, and so many different meds. You have to find what works for you.
My journey started with therapy. Then it moved on to meds. Coupled with intense workouts which usually involved long distance runs. At that time they were the only thing that could bring me even a modest amount of peace. Flood my body with endorphins through extreme physical effort. But that didn't last long as I also had problems with my physical health. And so my journey had to go inward even further. And thats when I found spirituality. And that is where I am now, and is the answer that I would offer you now. Yet I also know that if you are not ready for that, then there are steps you still have to take. And those are best done with a therapists who can guide you to what kinds of therapies you might need and even whether you should try meds. Meds did not work very well for me, though they did help me survive some brutal years. But others here will tell you that meds have and are working for them today. JohnE has shared his story here a few times. Meds work for him.
The thing is man. You have to start the journey. Reaching out is the start. Perseverance, an open mind, and a willingness to do the work is what will get you through.
Have you done the work recently? Have you done the things that you know help you? Such as getting outside, even though you don't feel like it? You live in a beautiful part of the world. Take advantage of that. Go to the mountains and get their good tidings. Then take that energy and go find professional help. And then keep us updated.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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PM sent. I really hope it goes through.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Please drop a post and let us know how you are doing today.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Oh, Avery. Please reach out for professional help.
You are a valued member of the community here.
Wishing you better times, Phyl
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Suicide is incredibly serious, and you need to see a counseling psychologist ASAP.
Suicidal ideation is a symptom of serious depression. There ARE ways to manage it. To deal with it, you need to understand the impact that you would leave if you killed yourself.
Suicide does not end with one person killing themselves. Once it starts in a family, it tends to spread. You might kill yourself, but even a cousin or a niece or a nephew might then kill themselves. The statistics on this are very clear. You CAN'T do it, because you will vastly increase the risk of someone else in your family or social group killing themselves. There is no way to commit suicide in a vacuum, even if you feel isolated.
You have to treat suicidal thoughts as just thoughts. With a little will, and an understanding of how awful the tendency of it to spread to someone else, you can learn to ignore the thoughts. You might not be able to stop them, but you can learn to ignore them. Actually committing suicide is not an option, for the reasons that I noted above.
Also, if you are having these thoughts, you clearly are suffering from severe depression. There is no reason to suffer alone. Go see a good psychiatrist as well as a counseling psychologist. Treating depression now has a pretty good track record, and it is very common.
The fact that you posted this on a public forum makes me think that you are really hurting. You don't need to suffer like this. Go get help ASAP.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Yo Avery,
My thoughts are with you. It is tough for anyone who is down to not let their personality and thoughts get in their way. Try to be present in the moment and know that you are not your thoughts, or personality.
I'd try to stay away from mind altering substances. Booze drugs etc.
Take care.
Prod.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Avery, you post the most fantastic information here!
I always read your stuff first.
Please don't leave us to the politards and trolls.
Clichés' can be true : Everyone has some problems. I try to weigh one positive thing more than 100 problems. Then the good things will always count more than the negatives. Putting that into practice is not easy & takes effort and support, which needs to be seen as one of the positives. Sticking around means more good things.
Being dead is all negative - no upside.
I think there is something to modern society often being less supportive than 3rd world places that materially have less, but value their happiness not in GNP.
Bhutan is a good example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness
Rambling onwards,
Societal happiness does not come from:
Large wealth and income inequity,
huge profits to middlemen like bankers, finance, insurance companies, & monopolies,
Environmental destruction, NIMBY zoning, Sprawl, non-walkable neighborhoods, ignoring external costs, imperialism, undeserved subsidies & loopholes due to buying of government, etc.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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This is a good time to start aid climbing, or to climb an unattempted 7000 meter peak.
Seriously though, taking a step away from the negative interactions (like people on the internet) and get busy with something important to you (like collecting historic information into a database of some sort, maybe a book or start new friendships/relationships) could help a lot. Think about what you get joy from and try adopting it into your lifestyle to distract you from things that make you upset. Life is very precious, there are many many things you could do with it before it is your time. Travel. Take a photography course. Maybe change what you do for a living, or do more of what you enjoy. Really hope you get over it.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Hi Avery, its Rob writing. It may help you to know that alot of people feel overwhelmed and consider suicide. You are not alone dude. Remind yourself when you are down that you will not always feel this way. Listen to upbeat music. Make a new friend (you just did,) start a project, watch a comedy. Go to a show. Indulge yourself in the things you love and avoid dwelling on negative thoughts. Even if you feel that you cannot help yourself right now, do something to help another person and the dividends of that will come back to you. God Bless you and good fortune.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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On the topic of depression, it is an illness, and a serious one. It has a morbidity factor that approaches many other serious diseases.
If Avery is having suicidal ideation, then he is seriously depressed. You can't treat this like it is just a transient mood. It is a very dire situation that requires professional help. The good news is that most psychiatrists see depression many times each day. It is a very common mental illness.
It is also the one that treats the best. There is no reason to suffer when you can go see a good P-Doc.
In the meantime, those with depression should be treated with understanding and compassion.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Change your environment. Even if you have to move to a lower latitude where there is more sunlight for your eyes to produce dopamine, and for your eyes and skin to produce other hormones and substances to make you feel better. Give the compound pharmacy in your skin and eyes a chance to do their thing to support your life in the way that nature has intended.
Get outside more. Leave the indoors behind and all the devices and distractions there.
Good luck
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Hi Avery,
Keeping you in my prayers for survival and discovery of people who can help you at this incredibly difficult time.
I only know you from SuperTopo, and I too appreciate your many thoughtful contributions.
I hope that knowing your fellow Tacos care is at least some small measure of help.
Please let us know how you are doing.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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[quote]If Avery is having suicidal ideation, then he is seriously depressed. You can't treat this like it is just a transient mood. It is a very dire situation that requires professional help. The good news is that most psychiatrists see depression many times each day. It is a very common mental illness.
[quote]
Exactly right... if anyone is physically near Avery, or knows someone who is, it might be a good day to stop by...
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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fear said: if anyone is physically near Avery, or knows someone who is, it might be a good day to stop by...
Sounds like a great idea. Does anyone here know Avery IRL, so they can see how he's doing or get someone else to do so?
(BTW, as I post this, it's around 9:15am in New Zealand. So it would be a good time to contact people there, including Avery.)
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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I sure do appreciate Avery's enthusiasm for remote big walls like the Kichatna spires.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Perhaps a ST admin can get his IP address and call his local authorities and have them track him down. There are photos of him on here. Sure, it may be embarrassing for him, but will likely get him connected to the appropriate resources.
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Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
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Oh my dear friend, your cry for help really pierces my heart. I know how this can feel, and I also know how much sadness there will be if you chose to leave us - please don't.
There is more love for you in this world than you currently know, or might ever know, really, but Love is there and it is your birthright. I really hope the best for you, hope that you can connect with the Light, and I very much hope you are with us tomorrow.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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May God give you...
For every storm, a rainbow,
For every tear, a smile,
For every care, a promise,
And a blessing in each trial.
For every problem life sends,
A faithful friend to share,
For every sigh, a sweet song,
And an answer for each prayer.
-Vin Scully
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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you kidding me? My favorite poster on the ST?
But seriously, get some help--there are a lot of good sunrises, rivers, skiing, romance, laughter all out there waiting for you--remember--The world is a better place with you in it
Dan
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Avery
climber
New Zealand
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
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I'm safe and with good people.
The will to live is stronger than the will to die (much to my surprise)
Thanks for the messages of hope and of better days to come. I've read every single one.
Avery
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Mine too.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Boy, what a relief!!
Cheers, Avery!!
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Phew! Thanks Avery!
Susan
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Super Fantastic!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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That's a great suggestion Dean! Every single time I do a volunteer thing, or help the seniors down the road with yard work I feel like a valuable human afterwards. Good one!
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Avery...seeing your post about the will to live has me sitting here with tears in my eyes. You matter more than you can know.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, Avery... i am late... have not been on line...
but say, you are in my prayers, as with all you folks...
say, i have not read the first post, yet, but i did see the last one, from
crrimper... and thankful to god, you are with safe folks...
say, i will share more with you, when i read the first one, and will
also, email you... i have been working outside all day, and have to
help an older friend, but i am in your corner...
will be back soon, and share some things that i hope, too, will help...
you are very important to those around you, but, even when you feel alone:
you are important to yourself... i have learned, that from when i was alone for a long time, that i was actually 'my own best friend'... we learn that, when we learn to like ourselves... just for who we are, not for any other reason... i was thankful to learn that JUST before i was an adult, so it did make life so much easier, in the hard strange times, along the way... times when things did not seem to be right, etc, in our life...
hang in there...
god bless, and pray...
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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One step at a time. Times can be dark but typically there are things that happen unexpectedly that make it all well worth it. Plus many of us really dig your work. I actually follow the threads you start and I do not follow many threads on this forum. I have not dealt with this in a while but I can say there have been some periods in my life where when I look back I wonder how I made it to where I am.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Avery, I was so relieved to see your post. I'm glad you're safe and with good people.
Please keep on keeping on.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Welcome back to basecamp...
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couchmaster
climber
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Thank you for touching base again. All of us will be checking out at some point, but why rush it. Please stay with us. No joke man, you matter- seriously, stay with us.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Just got home from dinner out.
Thought about you the whole time.
Super happy to see your post!!!
Prod.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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The will to live
Avery, attrition of the will to live while bearing the weight of living can sneak up on anyone. Good to hear your fighting. Reminds me to look outside the tunnel.
Jon
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Avery,
Hope you got my email, could have sent one sooner, but still fretted all day for you. I'm just glad to hear you're doing better. Contact me anytime you need to.
-Tim
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Hell man, contact any of us...
Glad you checked in with us-whew!
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Great to hear from you, Avery.
Don't forget, if you ever, ever need to talk,
don't hesitate to get in touch with me.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Yeah buddy! I am out kicking rocks on the PCT feeling the need to trade a laugh with my buddy Avery.
pic o the minute. Just for you.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Glad you are with friends. Stay strong Avery. Your second post brought tears of joy to my eyes.
-Q-ball
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Dick Danger
Trad climber
Lakewood, Colorado
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**Tough times never last, but tough people do.
Stay strong, there is a reason you are here.**
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L
climber
Just Livin' the Dream...
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Hi P,
I just read through this whole thread and, like Crimpie, I had to wipe the tears from my eyes when I saw your second post about being safe.
Like many on ST, I've been where you are. I suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder (which translates to severe depression) and there were a couple winters in Alaska when I didn't know how I'd make it to the next day, much less to spring and the sunshine.
But I did.
I'm looking at that awesome guidebook you sent me...and I'm thinking you have many, many more springs in you, too.
Keep your face towards the light, my friend. Your life matters.
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couchmaster
climber
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Woman I use to live with also had Seasonal thing you have L. She needed sunshine in the worst way. RIP Betsy.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
God damnit all. sniff. Life is already too short.
May God bless and keep you always, may your wishes all come true.
May you always do for others and let others do for you.
May you build a ladder to the stars and climb on every rung,
May you stay forever young.
Forever young, forever young, may you stay forever young.
May you grow up to be righteous, may you grow up to be true.
May you always know the truth and see the lights surrounding you.
May you always be courageous, stand upright and be strong.
May you stay forever young.
Forever young, forever young, may you stay forever young.
May your hands always be busy, may your feet always be swift.
May you have a strong foundation when the winds of changes shift.
May your heart always be joyful, may your songs always be sung.
May you stay forever young.
Forever young, forever young, may you stay forever young
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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You could start producing "I Hate New Zealand" Videos.
Well, I ain't always right but I've never been wrong.
Seldom turns out the way it does in a song.
Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Loco de Pedra
Mountain climber
Around the World
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Hi, Below some tips. This is very serious and you are not alone.
1- Go find a professional counselor ASAP. If he(she) is good, they will be able to open up some good insights and strategies to deal with these feelings.
2- Attention with prescribed drugs and anti depressants. Many drugs( specially the ones dealing with Serotonin) might cause this thoughts and feelings. Consult your doctor if you notice this.
3- Ive learned that the best way to deal with negative emotions is by physical movement. Go clean your car, go for a bike ride, hiking, gardening is really good too. Keep moving, get out of your screen - ipad, pc, phone, etc: those make anyone depressed if used too much.
4- You are not alone. Call your friends, speak up, get close to family and friends.
5- Gratitude: Make a list of what are you grateful for. I.e: the food you have, your home, your limbs, etc, etc.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Avery,
i don't know you at all, but i know your enemy all to well. You took a bold step in reaching out, especially on a forum. To me, that means you have the fight in you to not give in to the demon.
i don't have a clue how to win the fight, because it never ends. Professional help is a must, i have been getting it for 40+ years now.
Love from others and their company is the only dependable, 100% percent effective weapon. No matter how much you know that is true, you will resist it, but don't, as they are angels of mercy.
i feel like my words are hurting more than helping, but i am posting because i am trying to take my own advice right now.
As Loco de Pedra recommends, physically exhausting yourself is a major weapon. A life long deterrent for me.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Avery:
How’s it going now?
For me, looking into the abyss shook me to my core. My soul got separated from me at one time, and I looked closely into a place looking for it, perhaps as you.
What I saw was a mystery that struck me dumb. There were no words to describe what I was feeling and where I was looking. (I note today that there are many things that dumbfound me in total astonishment and amazement, especially outdoors: mountains, waterfalls, lightning strikes, etc.) Second, I came to see my feelings as an obsession, and what what an enticing and alluring obsession it was. It’s weird to say, but deep melancholy can draw one in like a whirlpool to something that “the eye hath not seen nor ear heard.” Third, for me at least, the sight into the abyss was horrible and repelling when I looked in closely. It presented an overpowering might, majesty, and dread. Altogether, I felt unworthy, guilt, a need for atonement, an impulse to set things right. Instinctively, I reached out to my mom, who got my dad to be with me for a time, and we just ended up sitting with each other saying nothing.
From thereon, for me, things got better. My experience was temporary. But I was left with a lasting impression of something that I can’t put into words or context.
Be well.
You can see that people love you.
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Avery
climber
New Zealand
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
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Heartfelt thanks to Loco de Pedra, Tobia and MikeL for taking the time to care.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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I care
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CopingJane
climber
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Bump for continued positivity for Avery.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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[Keep on hucking away Avery. We all care. I see you are still posting up on the taco; glad to see it.
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Patrick,
I just saw this post, and it disturbed me immensely. Scrolled to find your next post, and I was so relieved! But I'm sure this isn't an easy "turn on/turn off" thing for you. Like others, I would say number one get professional help. What works for me when things are bleak are that, and being outside. Trying to help others (like you do here on this forum!!!). Being with friends.
Sending you positive thoughts from across the ocean.
your friend,
Pam
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Dec 10, 2016 - 12:51am PT
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Patrick,
great music is powerful.
stay around people that lift and inspire
stay away from those that do not
you have no way to measure how many people appreciate you,
or whom you have affected for good.
can you make time for a walk and talk?
make a new friend?
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Don'tKnowHim
Social climber
California
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Dec 21, 2016 - 11:40pm PT
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Well, supposing that you have NOT already succumbed to the "deed," I would offer a STRONG suggestion that you do not do so.
All major religions at one time or another have supported the concept of reincarnation. Why take that chance?
If this is true, one would only face the same/similar circumstances in the next "life." Best to "deal" with it now, what ever the circumstances are.
As an old fug with a lot of "crap" to deal with, believe me, it's not worth it. If you want to discus it further, message met.
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Dec 22, 2016 - 06:17am PT
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Spirit
I thought I'd found a reason to live
Just like before when I was a child
Only to find that dreams made of sand
Would fall apart and slip through my hands
But the spirit of life keeps us strong
And the spirit of life is the will to carry on
Adversity what have I done to you
To cause this reclusive silence
That has come between me and you
And the spirit of life remains in light
And the spirit of life remains inside
I never thought it would be quite like this
Living outside of mutual bliss
But as long as the veins in our arms will stand up
The spirit of life will keep living on
Dead Can Dance
A Passage In Time
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Dec 22, 2016 - 06:31am PT
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Be careful about calling those hotlines. Usually means a cop will show up at your door. I'd call a good friend first. Have a nice long honest discussion.
Worked for me. When I started going through scenarios to make it happen, I knew I was in trouble. And as fate would have it, a good friend called ME, because she was going through something similar. We talked, and cried together, for over an hour. It worked for both of us, back to the grindstone and frankly, happier than ever.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Dec 22, 2016 - 06:55am PT
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hey there say, hossjulia... what a good share... THIS really does set
a new trail for many folks--being along, we don't SEE the whole picture...
we need someone else, or we'd dig around in the same hole... when we SHARE THE MAP of where we need or want to go, and others that have had those hard trails, we START to get somewhere... in life, we DO need the very
important OVERLAP:
the kinds where when we DO, we see that really, in life, we are all the same:
we have weakness and hurts, yet--we learn that we HAVE the resources
to adjust and use our EMOTIONS to help each other and come out stronger...
if we DARE to share, and ask for advice along the way, and test out,
which is BEST for us...
keep up the good trail, avery...
you will make it, just don't give up... :)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 22, 2016 - 06:59am PT
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Hoss, Avery lives in Kiwiville where even if they did send a copper I would expect said copper
to be considerably compassionate and more likely to engage one in a healthy chat than do
anything negative.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Dec 22, 2016 - 08:28am PT
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Avery,
It's a tough time of the year for trying to cope with life and find reasons to stay alive.
I struggle with it like a juggling act. I wish I had some awe inspiring words for you, but I don't. I can't find them for myself.
Send me a personal email and let's talk. tobiab56@gmail.com
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Dec 22, 2016 - 09:17am PT
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Cornerstones
Listen to the words upon the wind, my friend
Then listen to your heart, dear brother
The wind cannot help you to decide
What to do, my sister
For it comes and goes
But we are bound by our love of life
Our ties to the ocean, sun, and earth
For all I know
We shall not return here, children
And I do not know what I'll know then
Or where it is that I shall go
But in this life there is always hope
That somebody or something new
Is waiting around the next corner
-Tim Sorenson
12/22/2016
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Dec 22, 2016 - 10:37am PT
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With clinical depression, none of the things that people suggest that you do will help much. When it becomes serious it is a mortal illness. There are drugs that will help, but they take a while to figure out. In the meantime you have to just suffer.
If you are having suicidal thoughts, I can practically guarantee you that you have clinical or bipolar depression. There are two types of Bipolar Disorder: Type 1 is the one we are familiar with: Manic highs where you behave like a lunatic, and crashes into deep depression.
Type 2's do not have true manic episodes. At most they get really jazzed, a condition known as hypomania (less than mania). You feel great, are full of energy, but that is about it. It is characterized by a cyclic deep depression, that happens over and over and over.
It is harder to treat than simple depression. By harder, I mean finding a cocktail of drugs that works on you. At the least you need to see a GOOD psychiatrist right away. They see this all day every day, so don't go to a G.P. or family type doctor. They don't have the experience.
Understand that this is a treatable condition. People need to understand that the suicide rate in various mental illnesses compare to generic cancer, so it is a mortal disease, and you must see a good doctor.
They will get you fixed in no time. Some people experience depression only once in their lives. Others have to fight it on a daily basis. Either way, it is f*#king serious, so get to a doc.
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Avery
climber
New Zealand
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
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Thanks for the kind words.
I don't have a problem with you, GFC. I think Randisi may be referring to ms55401 as well as kunlan_shan. Those guys have every right to voice an opinion, but I think they've well and truly made their point.
Thanks Tim, as always. I'm sure your long lost brother would be proud of you.
I was lost and disconnected in early October. I'm feeling considerably better now. EMDR really does work! A number of you had suggested this process to me and I'm very greatful for that.
Thanks to all.
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couchmaster
climber
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Dec 22, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
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Congrats on doing better Avery. I suspect many others could benefit from this as well. I'd never heard of EMDR therapy, and I suspect thats true for most of the rest of us. Can you flesh out the process you followed to do it? That is, how you learned of it, who you contacted first etc etc. I did look it up on the net, http://www.emdr-therapy.com/emdr.html
I know someone with PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) doing traditional therapy which is slowly, if at all, helping.
What Is EMDR?
Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing, or EMDR, is a powerful new psychotherapy technique which has been very successful in helping people who suffer from trauma, anxiety, panic, disturbing memories, post traumatic stress and many other emotional problems. Until recently, these conditions were difficult and time-consuming to treat. EMDR is considered a breakthrough therapy because of its simplicity and the fact that it can bring quick and lasting relief for most types of emotional distress.
EMDR is the most effective and rapid method for healing PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) as shown by extensive scientific research studies.
The EMDR therapy uses bilateral stimulation, right/left eye movement, or tactile stimulation, which repeatly activates the opposite sides of the brain, releasing emotional experiences that are "trapped" in the nervous system. This assists the neurophysiological system, the basis of the mind/body connection, to free itself of blockages and reconnect itself.
As troubling images and feelings are processed by the brain via the eye-movement patterns of EMDR, resolution of the issues and a more peaceful state are achieved.
How Does It Work?
The therapist works gently with the client and asks him/her to revisit the traumatic moment or incident, recalling feelings surrounding the experience, as well as any negative thoughts, feelings and memories. The therapist then holds her fingers about eighteen inches from the clients face and begins to move them back and forth like a windshield wiper. The client tracks the movements as if watching ping pong. The more intensely the client focuses on the memory, the easier it becomes for the memory to come to life. As quick and vibrant images arise during the therapy session, they are processed by the eye movements, resulting in painful feelings being exchanged for more peaceful, loving and resolved feelings.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Dec 22, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
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I've always kept in the back of my mind that if I ever found myself seriously considering checking out, it would be perhaps better for humanity to give myself fully to a charity or organization doing humanitarian work such as aiding innocent people to escape war zones or oppressive governments. If I died doing it, at least it wouldn't be in vain. Just walk away from the painful environment, go underground and come up for air in a new altruistic life.
Probably difficult to actually pull off, but less messy than leaving a corpse behind..
vvvvvvvvvvvv thanks Survival. Once in a while a neuron fires in the vast wasteland that is my head :-)
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 22, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
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Very interesting thought skeptimistic!
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Dec 23, 2016 - 05:55am PT
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I've always kept in the back of my mind that if I ever found myself seriously considering checking out, it would be perhaps better for humanity to give myself fully to a charity or organization doing humanitarian work such as aiding innocent people to escape war zones or oppressive governments. If I died doing it, at least it wouldn't be in vain. Just walk away from the painful environment, go underground and come up for air in a new altruistic life.
Although one might not have to go so far as to inject themselves into a war zone or epidemic, this might not be far off as part of a solution to treating depression, at least in the short term.
As big part of my recovery and early sobriety in AA, it was 'suggested' that we do as many charitable deeds as our time and our wallets would allow so long as it did not adversely affect our family or finances. For several years a group of us under the Hospitals and Administrations arm of the AA organization, H&I, volunteered to go into and attend as guests of AA meetings in Folsom, New Folsom, and Mule Creek state prisons.
That experience of driving out on a Wednesday night once a month with a group of friends to enter a prison, going through security to sit with inmates and to listen to and tell our stories of recovery, with these men who would probably spend the majority of their adult lives incarcerated for their actions, was indelibly humbling. The breath of fresh air I felt every time I walked out through the security checkpoints and drove out of those prison gates to freedom left me with such an overwhelming feeling of gratitude, it was nearly impossible to focus on any difficulties in my own life.
The concept was simple, yet requires work to execute. So long as we are engaged in trying to help others, in trying to do some good for someone or something, it is nearly impossible to focus on our own wants, fears, or negative thoughts.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
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Dec 23, 2016 - 08:32am PT
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I've heard some people say they started doing dangerous climbing as an alternative to suicide but that never applied to me. I thought that confronting my fears was a way to improve myself and there had to be a real danger in order for it to be real. At some point I decided the odds were against me and any progress, as I measured it, would have meant more danger.
I spent several years living in Uraba, Colombia, in a place where thousands of people were killed by assassinations. I'm suing the Chiquita banana company for paying Colombian paramilitaries, and that case is about to become very active again, so I will probably return at least for a few months. In between my first and second years of law school (2003), I spent the summer in Afghanistan, although I have yet to do anything constructive there. I can vouch for the transformative effect of being in a war zone in the third world. If you can find something constructive to do, you can be a hero to many people. The dangerous terrain you have to navigate are the impressions that other people have of you. In Colombia, the mafias in charge of the places I lived never considered me a threat, and wanted to avoid me. I survived in Afghanistan by luck, and had to literally run for my life one time. I look at these projects like you might look at an expedition to climb a mountain. You always have to get from point A to point B. After time you get used to the fact there's a war going on, just like you get used to climbing up the side of a cliff. The hard part, I think, is finding something constructive you can do, without imposing your own agenda on them.
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