Canoe Freaks (dugouts)

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 1 - 38 of total 38 in this topic

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 21, 2016 - 07:04pm PT

University of Tennessee was throwing this in the dump! The museum didn't want it for lack of provenance. I got an F-350 and the largest trailer I could find and put it in my barn.

The canoe is 22.5 feet long, 31-32 inches at the beam. I am now searching on provenance. I am thinking South America or Asia.

Any thoughts?

Todd Eastman

climber

Bellingham, WA

Sep 21, 2016 - 07:05pm PT

Excellent save!

What type of wood is it?

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2016 - 07:10pm PT

I am working with UT to determine that. But if the wood is from outside the states they may not be able to say much.
-Q-ball

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Sep 21, 2016 - 07:12pm PT

It's from The Heart of Darkness. Good score!
The museum didn't care enough to tell you? Lame!

jonnyrig

climber

Sep 21, 2016 - 07:49pm PT

Doesn't count until you employ it to launch a deep-water solo FA.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2016 - 08:00pm PT

Jonnyrig,
If you stop by to help move the canoe from the barn to the river! I got some unclimbed bluffs! It ain't very deep.
-Q-ball

jonnyrig

climber

Sep 21, 2016 - 08:30pm PT

Hmm... tempting. Where again are you?
Ah crap... other side o' the country. Next time, I guess...
All the same, pretty damn neat. Although, fyi- I put a set of wheels under my old aluminum Montgomery Ward unit. The toddlers like riding IN it on the way to the shoreline. YMMV

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2016 - 08:58pm PT

Jonnyrig,
Awesome boat! I need to make that contraption to save my back. Looks like the young 'uns are ready to float!

-Q-ball

JohnnyG

climber

Sep 22, 2016 - 06:05am PT

Provenance...could it be from the u.s.? did any native people here use that type of canoe (I'm in birch bark canoe territory, so I don't know about the south)

chill

climber

The fat part of the bell-curve

Sep 22, 2016 - 06:38am PT

native people

We call them "internet-challenged" now.

Delhi Dog

climber

Good Question...

Sep 22, 2016 - 06:50am PT

In the second picture you're seeing the stern-correct?

The flat space on top is for standing and poling.
Space up front and center is for the goods + passengers.

At least from my experiences that is what I see.
The type is not really an unusual one.
Knowing the wood type is a big key to where it's from and who used it.

Cool you snagged it!

Todd Eastman

climber

Bellingham, WA

Sep 22, 2016 - 08:53am PT

Check out this USFS lab:

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/research/centers/woodanatomy/wood_idfactsheet.php

John M

climber

Sep 22, 2016 - 10:11am PT

why not North american?

dugout canoes or pirogues were used in Louisiana. Cyprus was the wood used. I believe.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Sep 22, 2016 - 10:20am PT

why not North american?

You trolling? I'd like to see you maneuver that dugout through some bayou. :-)

John M

climber

Sep 22, 2016 - 10:25am PT

It is pretty long. haha..

My aunt pearl use to take us kids out in a pirogue in the Louisiana bayous. She would stand up pole it. I don't remember much about it. My dad says he grew up poling one. Not a dugout.

My parents in Venezuela

Not a dugout obviously. Just a sunday afternoon outing.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2016 - 03:46pm PT

I will be going to UT to have the wood analyzed. They are good with USA trees but not sure about foreign ones. Just happy it is safe now.

I was thinking from over seas or far south of USA because of the design. It resembles the eastern Honduras canoes I am very familiar with but is a bit more refined. I talked with the curator of a museum in Florida that has many Indigenous/Seminole Dugouts. She was not familiar with the design.

Delhi Dog, I measured all the dimensions and it is symmetrical with no obvious bow or stern. Both ends appear to have a slightly carved seat for comfort. No keel either.

Thanks for the thoughts! Q-ball

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber

Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Sep 23, 2016 - 04:20am PT

I will be going to UT to have the wood analyzed.

Hopefully that will help, keep us posted

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2016 - 12:03pm PT

U. Tenn. just called and said they need a bigger sample to ID the wood. One end of the boat is damaged, and the researcher said the sample will not be destroyed... so I guess I will take a loose hunk off the back of the boat! Then fit it back.

If it is tropical hardwood they will send it to colleagues with expertise in that area.

-Q-ball

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2016 - 07:34pm PT

I just dropped off a 5 pound hunk of wood from the damaged end of the dugout. The expert was thrilled and want's to send it to a colleague that is better with tropical hardwoods.

They will make a small cut and return the piece so I can put it back into the canoe.

edit- Dingus, I was thinking teak also, but who knows. It had been displayed outside for many years and the wood is obviously very rot resistant (like teak with very close grains and light).

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 3, 2016 - 09:26pm PT

I got a hun that says it isn't teak. That stuff is nasty to work with and
fairly heavy. Besides, teak doesn't grow in S America which is where
that rig is from. :-)

Spider Savage

Mountain climber

The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles

Oct 4, 2016 - 09:09am PT

NICE boat! How much fun can a guy have with that.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2016 - 12:01pm PT

Just got a phone call from a tropical wood expert and it was identified as Gluta renghas. This tree is found in the lowlands of the Malay peninsula, Borneo and some Indonesian Islands!

How the hell it got from Borneo to Knoxville Tennessee we will never know!
-Q-ball

johntp

Trad climber

socal

Oct 13, 2016 - 12:10pm PT

Nice find and good on ya for rescuing it.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2016 - 12:54pm PT

Thanks for the picture Dingus! Here is a little about that species of tree.

The reddish-brown wood is not very hard, very strong, fairly light, durable and easy to split [46, 451]. It has splendid markings and is used for furniture, building material for houses, canoes, fancy articles and inlay work [46, 451].

A resinous exudate from the wood can cause severe skin irritation [451]. The poisonous constituent of the resinous sap is volatile and will gradually disappear. For this reason, the timber of rengas trees must be dried and exposed for several years as it is otherwise dangerous to handle. Lacquered articles or furniture made from the dried timber may still be toxic to persons who are especially susceptible [451]. Credit Botanist at UT.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 13, 2016 - 01:02pm PT

Pretty amazing that something so large would have no provenance. I thought
universities were all about keeping records? There probably is a record
somewhere, but they lost the record of where the record is. ;-)

So what are you gonna do with it? ;-)

If you want to offload it the Osa and Martin Johnson Museum in Chanute,
Kansas might be interested. The Johnsons got started in Borneo.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2016 - 01:42pm PT

Reilly, for now I am glad it is safe in my barn. After I feed the livestock each night a drink a beer and admire the craftsmanship!

I gave my buddy who supplied not only the F-350 and giant gooseneck but his muscle a 50% ownership. I joke that 8 of us picked up one end while Stu picked up the other!

Down the road if we find a good safe home for it we are happy to donate. For now I like it in the barn!

edit- Reilly,I sent that museum a message to pick at their brain on knowledge. Thanks.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2016 - 08:07pm PT

I have been in contact with several folks in Malaysia (Sabah Borneo and Malay Penn.) One lady sent pictures from the Semelai folks that look SIMILAR but different. She explained they are used in the peat swamps but the bow/stern looked different on my canoe.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2017 - 06:52pm PT

The canoe has been raised!!! My 23 foot ceilings are perfect for a 22.5 ft canoe! Hard part was getting it in the house!

c wilmot

climber

Jun 15, 2017 - 07:01pm PT

You need to stop posting q ball. You are are making lazy folks like me look bad...
Perhaps try under achieving for a change?

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jun 15, 2017 - 07:43pm PT

This goes for dugout on the Orinoco

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Jun 16, 2017 - 02:43am PT

I can close my eyes, drift back in time
~ the sweet smell of the of honey-suckle, thick stands, guarding over-hanging, like a hedge-row ~
catfish getting after frogs on the banks. Invasive carp, released/escaped Koi, stopped mid stream against the current, blinking in the sun-
I really miss my klepper.

And further more

Reilly, Mountain climber, The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 16, 2017 - 03:07pm PT
as always a great Snap!

Doesn't everybody pack a yak on the Tube? WTF?

Thank you Reilly Moss! the knower of so many things ~ thank you for being the eyes and sharing what you see!

https://vimeo.com/167761559

Contractor

Boulder climber

Jun 16, 2017 - 06:35am PT

That's an amazing item!

When traveling through the Mentawai archipelago off the Sumatran coast, we were struck by the canoes as much as anything.
The craftsmanship was amazing, the utility was obvious.

A local Islander was willing to sell me one of these masterpieces for $200. A dugout takes three weeks of hard work by at least three craftsman and is constructed from an old growth forest hardwood- I couldn't do it.
These conoes are built for nomadic living, traveling through Mangroves and open ocean and are different than the conoe you have.

John Duffield

Mountain climber

New York

Jun 16, 2017 - 09:03am PT

Interesting! I wonder if they can still make them there?

The last dugout in Washington State, was made in the 1940s. Per roadside exhibit I saw on the way to North Cascades last Summer.

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

but to scared to climb them anymore

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 16, 2017 - 10:38am PT

Contractor,
I agree that these canoes are masterpieces I could never make! I have quizzed my Pech friend on construction. They still make them in Honduras.

He says he prefers mahogany or a tree they call cedar. When he finds a good tree while hunting he puts a mark on it to claim. Kind of like a brand that other Indians will respect. Then you kill a couple pigs and have a feast to recruit folks to help knock it down and drag it to the river.

He says you need 30-50 people to move the log (this is for a 30 ft canoe). Sometimes the log is about a mile from the river.

Once he has it home he said with three people and a chainsaw he can have it finished in 5 days. With just using an adze it takes 7 days! Unbelievable what these guys can do!

I find the details fascinating

.

Qball