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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 30, 2006 - 02:27am PT
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In the 1994 "Yosesmite Climbs" guide by Don Reid on page 74 the climb Chingando 5.10a has the notation "Part of the Hardman Offwidth Training Circuit." I have looked and this is the first edition in which that notation appears for the "topo" guides. Searching the rest of the book also reveals that the rest of the "training circuit" is unidentified. This is not good, as one's imagination can cook up a brutal circuit to train on... which is where we are right now.
"We" in this case consists mostly of Gary and me... with our friends thrown in on the occasional trip to the Valley. Last weekend, 11/25/06, we day tripped up to the Valley to do Chingando, with Steve and George. George has at least been to some offwidth sessions on Gary's excellent crack machine. Steve was coming off the couch, and as usual, was game for anything.
Roper's green guide has this to say:
Chingando
I, 5.10. This difficult one-pitch climb was first led by Chuck Pratt in June 1965. Chingando is the 150-foot jamcrack on the outer face of the Iota. Hardware: 6 pitons, 1 1/2" to 3".
In his "Camp 4" he writes (on page 197) "Another developing trend in 1965 concerned difficult crack climbing. Pratt stood head and shoulders above anyone else in this department, establishing routes such as Entrance Exam, Chingando, Twilight Zone and the left side of the Slack. All these routes involved difficult, off-width jamcracks -- and all were either 5.9 or 5.10. It was Pratt's biggest year, with ten first ascents recorded."
Modern alterations to this route consist solely of the belay station about 115-feet above the commodious belay ledge under the crack, south facing, it gets sun all day if the skies are clear.
Gary and I had gone up there before, and not done as badly as we could have... we were pretty psyched to get to the top this time as we got to a high point and ran out of big gear at a place it wasn't going to be nice to try to run it to the top. On that occasion we scrambled around to the back of the formation, got to to the very top and rapped down to retrieve the gear.
This time I lead up through the alcove and set the first piece in the cruxy squeeze just above. I was up and down a couple of times then lowered out. Gary was heard to mumble "shit!" as it was his lead in the rotation.
Here is Gary in the initial hand jam section just off the deck with George belaying through my pieces above...
Here is Gary working through the crux section, now leading with much of the route shown
Up high the difficulty eases off, but so do the pro possibilities. When I'm doing a Pratt climb I often ask myself "what would Pratt do?" the answer is usually "heel toe, dummy!" Here is Gary running out the wide section heel-toeing like a demon going for the bolts.
George was next, he made it with some hangs on top rope, but learned a lot out in the "real world"
Of course, comfy belay ledges are always nice!
Gary luxuriates while Steve belays George.
Steve was next, here he gets a no-hands rest just above the initial hand/fist crack start. He's sitting on the top of a flake pretty comfortably
I top roped the route as did Gary, much fun! or at least just like fun only different...
It was a good day by the time everyone got their fill of this climb. Steve split and we three went down to Generator Crack and couldn't get the mojo going. We did meet katiebird and Jesse, they were very nice and let us use their rope. We didn't make a good show. Throughly thrashed, we headed home.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Nov 30, 2006 - 02:36am PT
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bravo!
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Standing Strong
Boulder climber
in a phonebooth @ the corner of walk & don't walk
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Nov 30, 2006 - 02:46am PT
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very nice. and chingando! is a fun word to say :)
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snakefoot
climber
cali
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Nov 30, 2006 - 03:03am PT
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oh baby,
love the wide stuff, nice work
do not forget the crack of doom and despair across yonder, let alone every damn one on the long routes.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 30, 2006 - 07:40am PT
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Chingando is one of my favorite OWs, and I don't have many favorite OWs.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 30, 2006 - 08:01am PT
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Nice report, Ed. Imagine Pratt climbing Chingando before there was an off width circuit. I notice that everyone is wearing low tops. Doesn't that hurt? Or is everyone so dialed into heel/toe that their ankles don't touch the rock?
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Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
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Nov 30, 2006 - 10:45am PT
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Roger:
Both Ed and I wear high tops. I've got several pairs of Megas and Ed just got his Kaukulators resoled by Barry. High tops are nice in the off-widths but we still leave our share of DNA on the rock.
Gary
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2006 - 11:05am PT
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Roger - what I was thinking was Roper's gear selection, 'pro to 3",' which would mean that most of the route was unprotected. But this is exactly what you'd expect from a Pratt climb in the '60s, as the gear to protect the wide stuff didn't exist... even a 6" bong-bong wouldn't help in most of the crack, and the flakes are pretty flexible so driving a piton into a lot of the cracks would have been problematic.
As usual, it seems that Pratt had confidence in his ability and technique. Amazing.
For high tops I'm using my re-soled Kaukulators as Gary said... probably order a pair of Acopa JB's after the holidays. The Mega's look good too. Maybe when I get the technique dialed I can waltz up the stuff in slippers, but it's going to be a long while before that happens!
The "offwidth circuit" is an interesting concept. I wouldn't be surprised if it consisted of just one climb. But we'll be exploring the various, short, fierce OW's in the Valley this winter, and reporting here.
I didn't put a lot of pain and suffering in the report, but that seems cliche, the stuff of other reports... OW is just another technique, you have to sack it up and go. The mantra is provided by Pratt: "technique is my protection." And John Long's admonition: "NO THRASHING!"
We ran into Eric on the way out of the Valley (Happy Birthday Eric!) and he said "so, you guys are ready to do Reed's Left"... what can you say to that?
My Kaukulators at the base of Chingando
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Nov 30, 2006 - 11:11am PT
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Maybe he meant after you took one look at it, you would know that 'to 3"' meant nothing smaller than 3 inches? :-)
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 30, 2006 - 11:53am PT
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Pratt seems to have been one of the first climbers who completely mastered opposing pressure. Chuck and I were good friends but we didn't really climb together. But I remember guys of his generation telling stories about him contorting his limbs and body, locking in on the least amount of energy to secure a hold--arm bar, heel/toe, mantel, sloper, and then move effortlessly around it. I don't think I have ever heard of a story of him falling--can that be true?
Of course everyone who came after him had a model, or at least his climbs that we would try. But it still is amazing when someone create something that refined out of thin air.
And Gary, my DNA is all over the Valley too--not in a good way, I might add.
Roger
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Carolyn C
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Nov 30, 2006 - 11:54am PT
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Nice report and photos. Having followed many of the OWs in the Valley (a long time ago), behind a boyfriend who loved doing them, I can even say that I kinda like OWs, too, well, sort of, in a puking kind of way. Maybe they are more fun in memory than they were in reality.
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spyork
Social climber
Land of Green Stretchy People
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Nov 30, 2006 - 12:14pm PT
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Hey Ed, send me the directions to get to Gary's excellent crack machine. I got permission to go out tonight!
Steve
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Nov 30, 2006 - 12:24pm PT
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"Imagine Pratt climbing Chingando before there was an off width circuit. I notice that everyone is wearing low tops. Doesn't that hurt?"
Only if you don't tape your ankles.
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salad
climber
San Diego
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Nov 30, 2006 - 01:08pm PT
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siege!!
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Nov 30, 2006 - 01:46pm PT
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I find Chingando about four grades easier than, say, Generator. Not letter grades either. GRADES. Pro to 3", though...yikes.
(Hartouni told me to post on this thread.)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Nov 30, 2006 - 02:43pm PT
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can you toprope that thing? it looks long.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2006 - 02:49pm PT
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70 m rope does the trick... just.
But you can also drop down from the top (down climb The Iota chimney and clip into the anchor).
But don't be a wuss, lead it! it's a crack!! you can get pro! ('cause you're lucky and live in the age of big stuff).
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Nov 30, 2006 - 03:46pm PT
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Yeah Munge - don't be a wuss - lead it like Ed did!!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Nov 30, 2006 - 03:57pm PT
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Didn't Choinard write an article c. 1973 (or maybe even before that) that listed a Valley OW circuit that included "Chingando"? Maybe it was in the old Summit mag? In any case, Choinard made it sound like 5.10 and OW were synonyms in the Valley.
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Nov 30, 2006 - 03:59pm PT
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Even with pro to #3 Bro, the finish (last 20"?) is unprotectable. Fortunately that's the (relatively) easy part. Still who wants to whip onto whatever sparse pro you left 20" or more below you?
As far as 'pro to 3"' I seem to remember it eats a few #4 Friend sized cams which is 3 1/2".
If you want to TR it, I guess you can solo up the Iota chimney to the top of the first pitch, which has a bolted anchor. You probably also could go behind the Iota, and "scramble" up the left side, using the old knotted fixed rope that might still be there, and rap down to the bolted anchor.
Rob, I might be up for it, since I barely remember how much fun it isn't.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2006 - 04:15pm PT
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Well, lead it better than Ed! (Gary and Ed team led it)...
The knotted rope was there last year, but just barely... core shot and braids broken, definitely the crux. Getting into The Iota chimney is probably the best bet. Way scary compared to leading Chingando.
Bruce - I was looking for that article too, but didn't remember which journal it appeared in. Someone's got write the comphrensive index of climbing journals soon!
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Nov 30, 2006 - 04:23pm PT
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"Getting into The Iota chimney is probably the best bet. Way scary compared to leading Chingando. "
Looked that way to me too. I seem to remember that as a guidebook suggestion though.
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Hi Ed,
Thanks for the TR and Pics.
I've organized my OW list by area. So far people take one look and we go do something else.
You've posted TRs on Chingando and Peter Pan. What's next?
Zander
Route rating page
Area/Day 1
Moby Dick Left 9 106
Peter Pan 9 100
Ahab 10b 106
Slack left 10b 104
Peter Pan left 10b/c 100
Area/Day 2
Doggie Do 10a
Henley quits 10a
Secret Storm 10a 135
Edge Of Night 10c 135
Area/Day 3
Chingando 10a 74
Reed's left side 10b 74
Area/Day 4
Absolutely Free Right 9 129
Rixon's East Chimney 10a 132
Misc.
Pharoah's Beard 8 262
Cookie Center 9 45
Hourglass right 10a 93
Narrow Escape 10c 28
Area/Day 6
Worst Error left 9 344
Crack of Doom 10a 346
Crack of Dispair 10a 346
Lost Arrow chimney 10a 158
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2006 - 04:19pm PT
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Zander -
we've done Moby Dick, Left a while ago and didn't post a TR, but it is such a "good" climb we'll be back to it this winter and post...
Ahab right now is a toprope after Moby Dick, Center, figuring out the pro will be the key.
The other's are known to us, but, we're working the 9s and 10as first...
Doggie Do is a toprope possibility too, Kate and Melissa ran into us a few years ago with wild grunting sounds eminating from the cliff, must of been a wierd approach for them.
Reed's Left was suggested for this weekend, but we had good excuses to go elsewhere.
I've been up and done Absolutely Free, Center, Right has a hideious reputation, which makes it even more desirable... (I'm sick, I know).
We took a gander at Pharoah's Beard, probably a good climb to do in the afternoon when the sun is on it, it would make for a lot more positive juju. Cookie Center looks good, we did Right and that was an ass kicker! I highly recommend it.
Stuff on Elephant Rock; that is the big leagues!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2006 - 04:22pm PT
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Here is the list we're currently working from, all are 10a in the Yellow Meyers' guide:
Banana Dreams
Cookie, Left
This and That
Nothing Special (Mongolian Clusterf*#k)
Chingando
Reed's Pinnacle, Left
Bong's Away, Center
Hourglass, Right
Gollum, Left
Orange Juice Avenue
Secret Storm
Doggie Do
Geek Towers, Center
Geek Towers, Right
Worst Error, Right
Crack of Doom
Crack of Dispair
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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It may be a squeeze to say that Cookie Centre is an offwidth. It's a weird claustrophobic tunnel thing. I've heard of people doing wild and crazy things to get up the outside, but most seem to squeeze in. I couldn't, even when I was 20. Too much swimming.
Some say that Moby Dick centre is an offwidth, likewise Sacherer Cracker. Bit of a stretch - even my dainty fists sort of fit the former, and the latter is only a few moves, around 5.8.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2006 - 05:59pm PT
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a tease for the reprise...
Gary in the lower 3rd of Moby Dick, Left 5.9
He's got sexy new, expensive black knee pads now (but he might be using the same tape gloves)...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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The Iota Chimney during a full moon makes for a really fun outing. The chimney is such that the when the moonlight shines directly in it casts your shadow onto the wall inside. Early in my Valley days if arriving at night, I would routinely climb the Iota under full moon or flashlight. It's very easy to get to the bolts that allow Chingando to be TR. At 5.4, you just need kneedpads and some chimney technique.
My recollection of Chingando is that it's more about arm bars and squeeze chimneying and less actual OW.
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Yah00
Trad climber
CA
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Oh man, I got on Chingando for the first time a couple months ago. About half way through the hard part, after much flailing, I decided I'd had enough and just started pulling on gear to get to the top. Then, I discovered that the upper part is too wide for cams and, still worked, got to run it out to the chains. Good times.
On a somewhat related note, is their any way to protect the crux squeeze on Ahab? It's too wide for a cam and I'm not sure if the angle would accomodate a big bro.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I'd take the whole hardware store (a Big Bro should work).
While you're wrestling away, imagine Royal Robbins climbing the thing unroped in his street shoes. Man, was that guy solid on the wide stuff.
Bev Johnson was rather fond of climbing Ahab too. She could "get her ass in it," as she used to like to say.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Why is Bill following with such a big rack???
(mostly a bump, but with some smack talk thrown in for Billy)
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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"My recollection of Chingando is that it's more about arm bars and squeeze chimneying and less actual OW."
Hunh?
What move is more quintessentialy 'offwidth' than the armbar?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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No way Wall_Eye!!!! It is surely a trick of the light.....
here is a post OW pic from last week I just stole from another thread. Note to self: wear long pants in Josh OW's
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AlexC
climber
Los Angeles, CA
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> Ahab right now is a toprope after Moby Dick, Center, figuring out the pro
> will be the key.
...
> On a somewhat related note, is their any way to protect the crux squeeze
> on Ahab? It's too wide for a cam and I'm not sure if the angle would
> accomodate a big bro.
The squeeze on Ahab protects quite well with 2x #6 Friends and a #5 Friend or #4 Camalot. At one point it gets very wide on the #6 Friend and you might have to move it up a couple of feet past a slightly too wide part.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Yo Russ, post a pic of said rig...Boot and Rally? And no sucker links please...
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Long pants are aid. ;-)
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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hehehe... Nice one Missy!
Al Dude: there is link to some pics over on the JT rig..... can't remember the name of the thread but you are probably dust anyway as they are embedding in a giant flash program.... I'll look around for a dialup pic or two......
Mountain Man/ Jaybro edit: found one Al. Photo by SteelMonkey
Still trying to figure out if anyone has done this thing before.....
This thread will now return to the on topic blabbing it deserves... "Thanks" to Ed for the opportunity to hijack!
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Zander...That's one ambitious circuit. You'll have to post a picture of your abs when you're done. Day one looks like several days worth of winter climbing adventures for me (or weeks if I didn't have a ropegun for all of the harder stuff).
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Melissa,
I know I'm toast. I'm one of the worlds best climbers when I'm planning and scheming. When I'm at the bottom of the climb looking up I'm still a pretty fine climber. It's when I get on the climb that problems begin! Still, if you plan a grag day as if you're doing a big multipitch day you've got a better chance of getting in a lot of pitches. Or so I've heard.
See ya,
Zander
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chappy
Social climber
ventura
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About protecting Ahab: If you are willing to go about half way up the initial wide section (which if you have good technique really isn't too bad) you can get a bomber stopper deep in the crack. From there just continue up until it starts pinching down. Then you start getting fist and wide hands in deep. Here you can use large hexes or medium size friends. Dragging anything up there larger than fist size would be a pain in the ass. Leaving the harness behind for a swami also helps. Harnesses on routes like Ahab suck.
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le_bruce
climber
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Silent Storm
Edge of Night
Anyone done these? They look mighty, and scary as all hell.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Uhhhh, Mark? That is so last century!
le_bruce, do you mean 'Secert Storm?'
Roger
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Secret storm and Edge o night are both excellenet climbs, but you have to want to do a climb like that in the first place..
That looks very cool, Russ. Think I did it with Henry Barber's gut back in'72, though.
even though I didn't
get to josh 'till '77.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Jul 14, 2007 - 05:16pm PT
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A bump for Phat-ness™™™™ on the front page.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 19, 2007 - 01:14pm PT
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Nobody seems to mention the Vendetta, which I found to be full of thrills. The books says something about a wild 3rd pitch, which I thought was a misprint since the really good OW is on the 2nd. Worth finding out about fer yerself.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Jul 19, 2007 - 01:22pm PT
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Vendetta is kickAsss™™™™
Here is a post from the Twilight Zone thread:
Russ Writes: Vendetta: me and Doug VanGina.... last pitch was interesting... big loose flake wiggling in the crack.... dirty top out in a small roof. Went and asked Klemmens about it.... he says, "you guys did that thing???..... probably the second ascent.... nobody does that last pitch!" Then he started laughing.....
Way easier than the TZ though IMO.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=129144
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Kirkwood, CA
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May 14, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
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Thinking about doing chingando soon.
How does chingando compare to midterm in terms of full body workout? I remember almost puking on midterm, all four times ive been on it.
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Barcus
Social climber
San Luis Obispo, Ca.
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May 14, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
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Bwahahahah...Climb till ya puke!
Marcus
Evil too!
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tom Carter
Social climber
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May 14, 2011 - 08:42pm PT
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I'm with Mark. Hauling all that sh#t up there is nuts.
I learned (and would have to re-learn) ow tech buildering with Vern in Berkeley. Sproul plaza columns etc. So smooth and not featured so you have to use and master the techs. Try it and things like the climbs mentioned above won't require puking or huge cams.
Easier said than done - but true.
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frog-e
Trad climber
Imperial Beach California
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May 15, 2011 - 12:13am PT
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Thank god (and Ed) for threads like this...
:-)
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Dan McDevitt
Trad climber
yosemite
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Feb 28, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
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This is one of the most striking lines at the cliff. Awesome climbing with great friends, what more could a guy ask for? (shots from a couple days ago)
Ed we were thinkin' of you. gotta get you up here the day Linda leads this, i wanna get some shots from above.
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Dan McDevitt
Trad climber
yosemite
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Feb 28, 2016 - 04:23pm PT
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yo Russ (the fish) that gear sling you made me for wide cracks is da bomb brah, thanks!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 28, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
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wonderful, yes The Blond would cruise but she is too polite to just dance up that stuff...
was thinking of you all when I was practicing my equanimity trying to get back from Oak Ridge, TN by way of Dallas on an epic...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Bloody karbunckle style bump!
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Dan McDevitt
Trad climber
yosemite
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nice swami shot of swilliam walter! i seem to remember another sweet shot you had from above, perhaps billy doin' some leavitation moves while tryin' not to hurl?
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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found old Zander post from 2006 with Napoleon's plans especially for Day1 and Day6
Area/Day 1
Moby Dick Left 9 106
Peter Pan 9 100
Ahab 10b 106
Slack left 10b 104
Peter Pan left 10b/c 100
....................
..............................
Area/Day 6
Worst Error left 9 344
Crack of Doom 10a 346
Crack of Dispair 10a 346
pretty impressive. As for plans for Day1 I done it two, but for Day6 only 1.5 route[sis!] in two days weekend. Crack of Doom&Despair seems so doable in one day link up- but never worked for me yet
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Dan McDevitt
Trad climber
yosemite
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Vendetta, another full value route!
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Dan McDevitt
Trad climber
yosemite
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To funny Wall-eye! it was the late night whiskey talkin bro! Hey i know you've got some more of those Billy shots? how 'bout that one where
bill is shovin' in the 4 friend (back when this was the biggest cam mind you) near the top of the route? i liked that one.
you back in Wisconsin?
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