Dealing with Loss and Grief

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Messages 1 - 62 of total 62 in this topic
yosguns

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 10, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
Apologies if this is redundant and hard to read, but it seemed like a good time to share this true and comforting depiction of loss and grief:


http://www.thatericalper.com/2015/08/16/person-is-asking-for-advice-hn-how-to-deal-with-grief-this-reply-is-incredible/
Mateo Pee Pee

Trad climber
Ivory Tower PDX
Sep 10, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
An appropriate reminder, thanks!
BooDawg

Social climber
Butterfly Town
Sep 10, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
Thank you, Allyson, for the lovely metaphorical reminder of how our grief and the scars of the heart are so often related to our capacity to love those whose lives have crossed and perhaps run parallel to out own.
bixquite

Social climber
humboldt nation
Sep 10, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
I lost my sister to cancer six months ago. I thank you for that beautifully written piece. The emotions are the ocean and friends and loved ones are the life boats till we sail again. Laughter and tears the rudder and sail and your soul the compass. Ship of fools on a cruel sea. Sending love to family and friends, brothers and sisters.
"Honey you are my shining star, don't you go away"
yosguns

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
bixquite, I'm sorry for your loss. You're absolutely right; friends and family are the lifeboat to weather rough seas. Big hugs and support to you.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Sep 10, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
Dealing with Loss and Grief.....lots of reflection over the past 8 years on this subject. My best friend died nearly 9 years ago. Whoa, really ? seems like last week.

Still he springs back into my heart and mind at the most unlikely times. Like yesterday. I missed him so bad.

When Dan died a "mind picture" came to me....loss is like a pond of grief. BUT every time someone dips into the pond some of the grief is taken and the pain and loss is a little less.

Grief is not just about death of someone you love. Death may be the easiest one to deal with. Loss thru divorce, loss of the job it took a lifetime to create, loss of a pet, loss of your financial future you built, a family home, a family, your health or that of one you care about. Loss......creates a huge hole in your heart and life. But, it is not the end of life.

Still sorting and dealing but also Living. Love from Lynnie
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 10, 2016 - 10:00pm PT
Life wisdom, there. Thanks, yosguns.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 10, 2016 - 10:07pm PT
Death may be the easiest one to deal with. Loss thru divorce, loss of the job it took a lifetime to create, loss of a pet, loss of your financial future you built, a family home, a family, your health or that of one you care about. Loss......creates a huge hole in your heart and life. But, it is not the end of life

Well said, Lynne. I dun'na know ya, but your words [especially those] about the loss of your partner stick with me.



Someone said that as we age it becomes easier to live in acceptance of the grieving state. I hope so!


Someone else, a wiser one than mine-own-self, said that this would help:
[Click to View YouTube Video]

He was right.


Also, walking and moving as meditation. And climbing, especially climbing.
yosguns

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2016 - 10:37pm PT
Lynne,

Absolutely. Grief is grief is grief is grief. The "old man"'s words ring true for every kind of loss, not just death. Death might just be the simplest type of grief, though I can't imagine losing a child and at only 30, I probably have too little experience to make that judgment, that death is simpler than other losses. I do know, for me, the lost hope of a failed marriage or career is something that persists long after the death of the dream, creating the complex waves of grief the "old man" describes. I recognize the waves better and earlier now than I did when I was younger, closer to the time my first life failures came to fruition, and I've found a lot of comfort in riding them out; studying bodhicitta and meditation helped me aim to accept the grief--embrace impermanence--rather than torment myself by trying to resist or fight it or even judge myself for having it. What the "old man" describes seems to come from a similar type of wisdom--acceptance rather than suppression or rejection--gained after a lifetime of experience with loss.

Keep practicing with open hearts, we will!

Love,
Allyson
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Sep 10, 2016 - 11:58pm PT
Thanks TBC!
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 11, 2016 - 03:45am PT
I'm here too.
And TBC's share has in it the wisdom of the ages.
The ability to find balance while suffering is helped by all forms of meditation
Chanting , humming, repeating devotions & those bowls/bells ...
Thank you The Brave Cowboy.
I'm always filled with a sense of wonder when the light of the setting sun jogs some memory of a past person. Are they, their spirit, really with us ? then,? always?
I like to think so. . .
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Sep 11, 2016 - 07:25am PT
It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words, "And this too, shall pass away." How much it expresses! How chastening in the hour of pride! How consoling in the depths of affliction!
― Abraham Lincoln

Regard this phantom world

As a star at dawn,
A bubble in a stream, 

A flash of lightning in a summer cloud,

A flickering lamp — a phantom — and a dream.
— Buddha

Anyone who has lost something they thought was theirs . . . finally comes to realize that nothing really belongs to them.
― Paulo Coelho

Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream,
Merrily, merrily, merrily.
Life is but a dream.
— English language nursery rhyme


nah000

climber
no/w/here
Sep 11, 2016 - 08:13am PT
after decades of shared work, the loss of a partnership with a still living person... the loss of the collective dreams of [insert appropriate dream here] and growing old together... the emotional loss of someone who helped sustain one through times of little to effectively no hope... is something, based on personal experience, that i can not imagine being able to survive twice.

and so i also understand why some are not able to survive similar occurrences once.

while the sentiments as expressed in the piece above are nice and helpful ones to those who survive, what it doesn't address is that in some storms, when one is in the thick of it, one can not know whether one will survive the hundred foot waves or not.

at least based on my time on this earth, i suspect that it is not just the physical realm that can overwhelm us...

and so i do believe that sometimes the emotional waves do bring an end... and while sometimes that end is physical... sometimes the physical body keeps taking steps forward even though the emotive body has effectively passed away...



regardless, i believe it is important to recognize that to those in the deepest depths of grief, those words, as well intentioned as they are, are worthless.

not because they aren't true to those who survive... or that they are not true in most cases... or even due to their not being well intentioned...

but rather because they aren't necessarily true in all cases and as incredibly resilient as we generally are, not everyone makes it.

recognizing, accepting and standing with those in the thick of it, requires recognizing, accepting and standing with the possibility that we humans don't always make it through to the other side of the wave.

and because of that, it is only after the largest waves have passed, that words are necessarily helpful.



A little Indian brave who before he was ten, played war games in
the woods with his Indian friends, and he built a dream that when he
grew up, he would be a fearless warrior Indian Chief.

Many moons passed and more the dream grew strong, until tomorrow
He would sing his first war song,
And fight his first battle, but something went wrong,
surprise attack killed him in his sleep that night

And so castles made of sand, melts into the sea eventually.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 11, 2016 - 10:43am PT
The Wind Cries Mary is the first Hendrix song that comes to mind when grieving as it helped me through the loss of my older sister to melanoma while we were both in college. Named a route in the Cochise Stronghold "As the Wind Cries" in her memory.

After all the Jacks are in their boxes
And the clowns have all gone to bed
You can hear happiness staggering on down the street
Footprints dressed in red
And the wind whispers Mary

A broom is drearily sweeping
Of the broken pieces of yesterdays life
Somewhere a queen is weeping
Somewhere a king has no wife
And the wind it cries Mary

The traffic lights they a turn blue tomorrow
And shine the emptiness down on my bed
The tiny island sags down the street
Cause the life that lives is dead
And the wind screams Mary.

Will the wind every remember
The names it has blown in the past
And with this crutch it's old age and it's wisdom
It whispers no this will be the last
And the wind cries Mary.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 11, 2016 - 11:04am PT

They sat side by side holding their hats, she the sombrero of woven straw, he the dusty black fedora. She was crying. He sighed and seemed himself weary and cast down. He said that while one would like to say that God will punish those who do such things and that people often speak in just this way it was his experience that God could not be spoken for and that men with wicked histories often enjoyed times of comfort and that they died in peace and were buried with honor. He said that it was a mistake to expect too much of justice in this world. He said that the notion that evil is seldom rewarded was greatly overspoken for if there were no advantage to it then men would shun it and how could virtue then be attached to its repudiation? It was the nature of his profession that his experience with death should be greater than for most and he said that while it was true that time heals bereavement it does so only at the cost of the slow extinction of those loved ones from the heart’s memory which is the sole place of their abode then and now. Faces fade, voices dim. Seize them back, whispered the sepulturero. Speak with them. Call their names. Do this and do not let sorrow die for it is the sweetening of every gift.

CMC
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 11, 2016 - 11:15am PT
It's been 6 1/2 years since I lost someone extremely dear to me. yet the grief persists...

Anne was my lovely wife, and we had spent 29 years together as friends, climbing partners, business partners, lovers, and married to one another. I'll spare everyone the details, but she was taken from me by a horrible disease: Huntington's Chorea. This disease is an insidious neuropsychiatric affliction manifesting itself through extreme paranoia and schizophrenia, accompanied by symptoms physically debilitating--loss of coordination, falling, involuntary movements (chorea).

I found out about the paranoia and schizophrenic behavior by being served with divorce papers at the airport on evening after returning from a business trip. The contents of the papers were filled with fantastic allegations that had no real life basis; only 2 weeks later she had wandered outside in -20 degree weather without a glove on one hand and getting severe frostbite. She was hospitalized was diagnosed by the neurologist with this hideous disease. I was called to sign a release for surgical amputation of the fingers of her left hand. She was subsequently transferred to an extended care facility which specialized in Huntington's Disease patients. I fought the divorce proceedings vigorously--and lost. Her scumbag attorney was pushing ahead for the big payday--he netted $75,000 from her funds. The specialist facility actually helped her a lot--initially--and she actually regained her mental capacity to some extent, but only temporarily. She is still barely alive, and I haven't seen her for 3 years on the advice of the care professionals. This is extremely difficult to write about, but I figured I had to get this off my chest and out of my system at some point, as a catharsis.

I'm now trying to regain a complete life and my return to climbing after a long layoff has really helped.

Thanks, friends, for letting me get this rant out of my system.

Rodger
yosguns

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2016 - 11:51am PT
Interesting point, about the death of the emotive self.

I hope I don't know what that would be like, though I have feared something like it in the biggest waves. Maybe fearing such death and then being alive enough after the storm to appreciate the words in the OP mean you haven't suffered such death.

In the thick of it, though, it is hard to know whether a wave will cause a mortal wound rather than only a scar.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 11, 2016 - 11:58am PT
Heavy stuff Rodger. Please know that I feel for you and hope to help cosmically dissipate some of that terrifically awful pain. Keep climbing!




I know a pair of older folks that go speak, shout, cry off the canyon rims to their passed-away progenitors and former compatriots. The soulful howl of the lone human mourning aloud into the big empty beauty of it both itemizes the personal, emotive loss and celebrates the beauty of the inevitable return to the big atomic mixing bowl from which have all dried out into our flaky little pseudo-static human forms.

what was that Kansas songline? "all we are is crust on the rim"







to honor those passed away like this can feel silly but what more are we anyway than little voices crying out a wild place to begin with? vox clamantis in deserto
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 11, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
This thread allowed me an entre to venting what was trapped inside me for many years. I fully intend to post a memorial thread to her once she actually passes--complete with her climbing photos and extensive resume of climbs.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 11, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
Fronto-temporal dementia took a member of my little pack recently, and it tried all the ties from all angles. Your experience sounds worlds more difficult. Way to stick it out!
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 11, 2016 - 02:28pm PT

Vast waves of Respect and sympathy for anyone and all dealing with loved ones moving on....


.

Again if I still need to apologize to The Brave Cowboy?
I'm sorry for my interloping a year or so ago, I had no right to add my two cents.
John M

climber
Sep 11, 2016 - 03:27pm PT
Goodness Rodger. I am so sorry that you have had to go through this with your wife. What a tough thing. And then not to be able to see her now. I am so sorry.

nahooo.. I agree with you that there is a part of a person that can die when faced with overwhelming loss. In my opinion it is a part of ones spirit. A kind of spirit spark of life. And it can be snuffed out and it is very very difficult to relight it. Yet I also know that it can be relit. Though then it is very small and must be protected and encouraged to grow. I hope that if this is your experience, then that one day it will be relit for you.

Thanks Yosguns for sharing these words. I see a lot of wisdom in them, though like nahooo, I also know that the waves can overcome one.
yosguns

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
Just continued reading the thread and wanted to respond to Rodger. Thank you for sharing. When I hear experiences like yours, I'm overwhelmed by our ability to keep on in the face of a series of tragedies. I hope you have peaceful moments now, in between the grief. Much love to you, Rodger.

Thanks to everyone on this thread. It's really meaningful to me and helping me heal in a lot of ways. I'm impressed by you all and your courage.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Sep 11, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
Thanks for sharing this Allyson. Everything the old dude shared resonated well with me.

Someone here commented on the possibility of not surviving the 100 foot waves. I have a different philosophical view of that. I think the reality is we all can survive any storm. Whether or not we choose to do so is a function of our free will. There is a space between what happens to us, what we perceive, what meaning we assign to it, and how we choose to respond. For some that space is not cultivated. Some of us may not have been tried in various ways to build up this conviction that we can survive anything, or to be aware of that space between input and output. Some of us attach a meaning to the fact that we can survive, and we don't like that meaning: that it somehow diminishes the significance of the relationship or the respect for the other person or the profundity of our own feelings.

I was about to say I would not have empathy for someone that chooses not to exercise their free will to survive the storm. But it brings to mind conversations I have had with my mom (who is still living). She is a stubborn person who wants to live and die on her own terms, and I think I can gracefully accept her future choices even if I disagree with them. In the end none of us knows what it is like to not just walk in another's shoes, but to walk in their shoes as them. Having a broader cosmic perspective of these things seems to make it easier to live and love and let other's live and love and die and see that the world keeps hurtling through space and spinning on its axis.


I belief we all experience grief in our own way, that it need not be correlated with an outward expression of suffering, or even an inward expression of suffering per se. But because of our limitations in understanding the world and our place in it, we typically suffer. I like to think of suffering as an internal reaction we have to hurt ourselves in the wake of something external that hurts us. Understanding suffering in this way and choosing to transcend it or experience our emotions of grief apart from suffering is not at all the same thing as forming a wall and locking off an emotional response. The difference is about facing suffering directly, understanding it, experiencing it and learning from it, and transforming it and remembering this transformation to change our perception of it in the future, versus being afraid of it and hiding.


Roger, I'm sorry for both you and your wife. It sounds like the disease robbed you of the opportunity to be there for the person you spent a lifetime loving. It can be messy holding the truths of the love and good times you shared along with the painful parts in the end. At least in your case you have a name and a diagnosis for the affliction that came between you, that hopefully makes it easier to let go of whatever resentment or suffering and extra meaning that you might have otherwise ascribed to the loss of connection. Hopefully it makes it easier to live in the sort of purgatory now where you know this person is out there going through their stuff without you, and you without her, and it seems you didn't have much of a choice in that.


There are so many ways to be emotionally challenged in this life... makes me want to appreciate the little things we experience in the here and now because we don't know what's around the corner.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 11, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
I found the best antidote to experience such as the one I went through, was to remain intellectually active--read a lot--participate in some blogs online, etc. My interests are still keeping me in a positive frame of mind, and the times I' m still able to get out climbing are the frosting on the cake of life. Thanks to all here for the kind words of support!
feralfae

Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
Sep 11, 2016 - 06:42pm PT
Rodger,
I am so sorry for your loss. And being in this "in between" has to be painful as well. It has been almost 5 years since Doug left, and yet I find myself thinking of him many times a day. The grief is leveling out, but there are still the occasional tsunamis. I am still part of a grief support group for people who have lost their spouses to cancer, and a large part of my healing has come from their love and compassion. Doug still has a place in my heart, and also in my life history. There are so many events when I want to share the happiness or the comedy or the adventure with him, and that is still a yawning chasm of a hole. I don't know if things ever smooth out or balance entirely: I think we learn a new balance as we live each day.

They say that sorrow shared is sorrow halved, and joy shared is joy multiplied. I think that is true. I am glad you felt safe enough and loved enough to share here. It says a lot about the loving support we share among us.

Peace to your Heart,
feralfae
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Sep 11, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
Brokedownclimber: thank you for sharing. if that was a rant, i hope you or someone like you is at the helm if shIt ever really hits the fan [again] for humanity on this earth... if anyone is deserving of an actual rant it would be you and so your apparent ability to continue to put one foot in front of the other, given what you've experienced, is a powerful one. all the best...

NutAgain!: yo it's me... someone... while i appreciate your well written and thoughtful post i believe there is a danger in what you've written. while there is no harm in believing [specifically in your case because it is likely true] that one's own self can survive any [emotional] storm, i believe it is dangerously assumptive/dismissive to transfer that view onto the rest of humanity... given what i've seen in my lifetime, communicating [explicitly or implicitly] that view to another human who is truly in the thick of it, would be as helpful, due to its imo mistaken nature, as saying to a cancer patient that their ability to survive is a function of their free will... from what i've seen, humans have emotional carrying capacities, just as they have physical carrying capacities and because of the intertwined nature of the physical and the emotional, the largest waves can truly overturn the generally resilient vessels that humans are comprised of... point being is that, i would put forth that sometimes the last thing someone in the midst of an emotional battle needs to hear or have implied to them is that in another person's opinion their ability to survive is only a choice. or that what they are experiencing is only a passing wave.

even if the vast vast majority of the time it is only that...

[but again, sincere thanks for sharing and writing what you did...]

John M: sorry for the confusion, but i was fortunate to have a lot of support surrounding me when i was in the thick of it. so no sparks [that i'm aware of :) ] were snuffed out, temporarily or otherwise...

yosguns: thanks for starting this thread... it's been helpful.
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Sep 11, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
BDC I cannot imagine that ongoing struggle, waves for you must be tsunamis.
And to everyone else here, thanks for posting. We have all a common bond.
I lost my kid sister 15 months younger than me last April. An unneeded death, over prescribed for pain meds. Maybe I will post a pic. We were basically twins. A 60 year relationship.
Well she was a gal, and lots of fun, and for some reason this rings true when I think of her.




I hope this is not making light of this thread.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Sep 11, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
Thanks Nah00, I think you're striking closer to the heart of it than I am. I still believe in the abstract sense that we all can weather anything if we have the will to do so. But in practice that will is a resource that varies between people and is subject to prior cultivation or life experience to be ready to use it. Sort of like physical conditioning, we need to have emotional/spiritual conditioning to handle more demanding situations. The old adage "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

I'm going to tuck this away for times when I'm struggling to tap into compassion, when people seem like they are giving up. Definitely a trigger issue for me in many scenarios.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Sep 11, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
^^^^

cheers, NA!...

regardless that i am generally in agreement with what you write, i always enjoy the oft found honesty and openness found in your posts...
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 11, 2016 - 09:52pm PT
When things were getting me down--I fell back on what the platoon sergeant in my basic training company always told us: when the going gets tough, the tough get going. Thanks, Sergeant Bradford! Go Army!
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 12, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
Wonderful piece, and wonderful timing, Yosguns. This year my mother passed away in January, (at age 104), and a day before you posted, we buried my father-in law (at age 95). My father, who was born 115 years ago, passed away 39 years ago.

Even though my mother lived an amazingly long time - most of it in good health - and my father and father-in-law's deaths ended their suffering, it doesn't mean I don't miss them and think about them often. I, like the other older person whose comment you posted, don't want death to be something you just get over. I can't see how I can treasure someone without regretting their loss.

And like Lynnie, I know that losses of other things (in my case, my career, wealth, reputation, status and, briefly, freedom) can cause grief that never really disappears.

What I find perhaps paradoxical, however, is that I can remain optimistic, content and, for those reasons, fundamentally happy even though I have plenty of grief to carry. In my case, I think that was God's gift, but I also think that we can give ourselves permission to engage in self-pity that almost never leads to good things. It took a while to learn to "do the next thing," but doing so, while still acknowledging loss, forms my essential coping mechanism.

Thanks again for both the content and the timing of your post, Yosguns.

John
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Sep 12, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
There's a special kind of enduring loss and grief caused by custody lawyers and family court that is causing a lot of children to be separated from loving parents. It's leading to lots of suicides and also to a large group of behaviors associated with fatherlessness. All human rights are predicated on the protection of children. The betrayal is complete when an indifferent institution dismantles this fundamental relationship. Society should take this seriously.
I'm not a suicide guy but I can assure you that I'm also broken in some foundational and frightening ways. I was a really decent and hopeful guy. Now, I scare myself. Only my son matters now. Luckily, his love protects the universe from the black hole where my heart was. Feels shitty most of the time. But there is hope for him so I muddle along trying become human again.

bixquite

Social climber
humboldt nation
Sep 12, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
Paddle towards the waves that seam illuminated. Dig deep and when you catch the glide in the butter cup spot on the wave, rise to your feet. When we stop thinking and lay into that first bottom turn, the feeling of returning comes over you. Keep your eyes open for the illuminated, be they boulders, people, waves or music. The depth of this pool can be felt when you drop in deep and aim for the copping.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Sep 12, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
everything that happens is supposed to happen? i have a hard time with that philosphy, but i guess there is some truth to that,
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Sep 12, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
Caught inside on a big set
Broken leash
Lost board
Crunch corner it's called
And it's the only way out
How long have I been here
How many waves
How many sets
How long can I stay under

yosguns

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
https://jackkornfield.com/learning-to-surf/

"You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf."
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
Sep 12, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Sep 13, 2016 - 12:45am PT
hey there say, yosguns, and all,
will share a bit here, later...

thanks for posting this...


so many can really use this, all through life, in fact,
for any kind of grief...

say, flip flop... just sent you an email,
at the ol' taco address here...


well, will try to share something, next week...

also, brokedownclimber, my
condolences and prayers for you, for all
you have gone through, with your dear wife...


rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Sep 13, 2016 - 08:42am PT
Suffering the pain of loss is really just a manifestation of our own righteousness in being able to have loved in the first place.

Humans are just so clever in our ability to confirm ourselves! I expect all those Trump supporters feel the same way about themselves for supporting Trump.

You loved them for a good reason beyond all the bullsh#t

Thanks for that Jim! :-)

Me, I've got a lot of our human bullsh#t too, like our unwavering need to believe that we're right, that we're righteous, for whatever beliefs and emotions and behaviors our brains (have evolved to) lead us to.

Well, maybe I have less of that one than a healthy human should have, but in our survival of the fittest belief processes, healthy is the trump card, regardless of the truth. Can we forgive ourselves (and others) for that, without actually believing it? Probably not - we believe and behave the way that humans believe and behave.
bixquite

Social climber
humboldt nation
Sep 13, 2016 - 10:07am PT
Thanks for the link Yosgun. A teacher once told me the Buddah would be just as stoked caught inside as in the barrel, it's all surfing. Hang in there flip flop, and look for the channel. You got a little charger to look after. Fall is coming, hit me up if you want to hike to big flat.
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
Sep 13, 2016 - 10:42am PT
What would the deceased have us do?



Live!!!!!

Step away from the cemetery. Honor, but don't dwell.



We all will have more time in the cemetery than we'll know what to do with . . . ;)
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Sep 13, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
My neighbors son had a terrible disease. At one years old he had to have his legs amputated in an attempt to stave off the illness that eventually took his young life.
I was talking with my neighbor about this and he told me there was nothing you could have done to prepare for the sadness, he said it was something that you "just did".
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Sep 13, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
Thanks for this thread yosguns.

Here's something I wrote.

some days it's like a punch in the stomach,
sleep that won't leave your eyes,
a heavy rock hidden inside your backpack.
but the thing about grief,
it's also like a rainbow.



Lots of good words here, tough ones too.
I'm not sure I can narrow down how I've dealt with loss and grief.
They seem like constant companions.

Here in Tucson we have the All Souls Procession- a multicultural version of Dia de los Muertos, where we remember, celebrate, honor, and grieve together...100,000 of us.
It's a very special event and very helpful for me.

Also, my family and I shared our journey of pain, grief, and healing rather publicly.
That was also of great help to us and as we found out, to others as well.

Here's a link to part of my journey.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2490736/Heavens-To-Betsy-Climbing-and-healing

Thanks again everyone.


Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 15, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
Hardly a day passes without seeing another "RIP" here on the Taco Stand, so this is in lieu of a simple bump, and is for all those lost and to their loved ones...
Bldrjac

Ice climber
Boulder
Sep 15, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
Feeling it hard tonight, not sure why, just sitting here grading papers
....in my vision I'm on my surfboard, and from time to time get totally wiped out by a rogue set, bounced around and flailing. But it's happened to me so many times I know I can and will find my board again, get back on it and catch my breath for awhile. Slowly, the sun comes back up, and I see a perfect waves, and have a perfect ride, feeling nothing but love, beauty and happiness. I can have the patience to ride out the holddowns because after 4 1/2 years into my own grief, I know that for the most part it's the rogue waves that get me. Early on it was just unrelenting set after unrelenting set, with the random great ride to keep my confidence up. Like Lynne I think, "where has this time gone?" I still feel him like it was yesterday.
I've appreciated reading all your words.....it is a weird thing to do, to grieve. And it has a strange, intense beauty when I look at it a certain way. Anyway....................
Pam
Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Sep 20, 2016 - 09:53pm PT
Thinking of you tonight, Pam.

Thinking of all that are sad, who have just lost someone they care for or are still processing loss from years ago.

I encourage myself to live, to capture life, to explore. I know that's what Dan would have wanted....wants me to do.

You are all in my heart tonight even if we have never met. lynnie
Bldrjac

Ice climber
Boulder
Sep 21, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
It's funny......sometimes I feel that now I am living for 2. I am very definitely still adventuring, being active, getting involved in new things, making lots of plans for the future. It's how I was before Jack, and during Jack....and I know that's what he'd want for me even though he is no longer physically here. We actually talked about the possibility from time to time Most days,I'm enjoying the hell out of life. I DO feel like I have a better appreciation for all things in life....nature, beauty, friendships, emotions....it's like getting a taste of grief heightens awareness in all areas. I feel things much more acutely and intensely, which actually feels positive. Just miss him, is all.
Thanks Lynne, as always. Perhaps we will meet one day!
best,
Pam
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Sep 21, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
Life is fleeting, fragile and transitory . . . we should always remember this and embrace each moment with acceptance, humility and patience.

It is O.K. to be selfish . . . we can only truly live for our self.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Sep 21, 2016 - 08:57pm PT
Damn why did I have to go on and open that... :(

Thanks
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Sep 21, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
Sometimes life can be so cruel
Which makes it all that much more important
With what little time we have
That we live, we laugh, we cry,
We give and share with the world
Spending as much time as possible with those we love
We chose to love and love again
And to laugh in the face of oblivion.
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Sep 22, 2016 - 09:53am PT
http://www.blanketstunts.com/new-blog/2015/7/16/until-dawn-do-us-part

Well, it’s not what I expected. I’ll do my best to describe it. So I’m at this sweet party, the music’s on point and everyone’s mixing it up, you know, getting amongst it. I’m not quite feeling it yet so I post up at the bar. Drink in hand I start working my way through the crowd.

I’m on my way to the center when I notice that one dude is absolutely killin’ it in a f*#kin’ bird costume with feathers everywhere. The whole center of the dance floor seems to be stoked off this guy and I start dancing my ass of with them. I remember hearing about this dude once, I think at a party in LA, or maybe it was that I saw a video of him crushing it at The Burn.

Anyway, it doesn’t really matter because he’s bringing the whole room’s game up. I’m vibing with this girl who’s feeling the same energy and the song just keeps getting better and better. Heads down, hands in the air, drinks being spilled everywhere, no one cares about anything but dancing together.

Just as the beat’s getting super heavy I look up to find the birdman and see what kind of moves he’s going to throw down, but during the raging he had danced his way toward the door and walked out before the song had ended, his half-heard farewell still lingering in the air.

The beat switched up and everyone in the center picked their head up to notice he was gone. Even the DJ gave him a shout out and the people around the outside, along with the new arrivals, looked around quickly trying to figure out what they’d missed.

And as much fun as I’m still having I wish he’d stayed, and I wish I could’ve gotten one more song in with him, but the party must go on…

Me: “So that’s what it’s like to be in an extreme sports community which loses someone, once a month, that you may not have known all that well.”

Stranger: “So what’s it like when you lose someone that you did know? Is it still like being at a party?”

Me: “No.”
E

Ice climber
mogollon rim
Sep 22, 2016 - 10:07am PT


"we climb and we die...that is how we live"

an old norse saying that i changed slightly to fit the day

EE


bixquite

Social climber
humboldt nation
Sep 22, 2016 - 10:44am PT
On my way to my sisters memorial back east. I'm using the forum / therapy group this morning for all it's worth. I was talking with my son about the I Ching and the study of natures forces. When fire burns through a forest where does it go? Well my love, my sweet child o mine, home skillet, your roots go down into my soul and forever give me light love laughter and tears. I will forever dance and play music for you my big chicken.
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Sep 22, 2016 - 11:28am PT
Thanks yosguns. Just lost a nephew today. I'm drowning right now under those 100 foot waves that come every 10 seconds. Can't imagine what my brother is going through.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Oct 2, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
Sad, Sad Sunday

When I die I'll wait till Monday
The chimes will be quieter
The leaves less crinkly
I can't bear the thought of leaving
When leaving escapes love
On a Sunday

No wind will be blowing
No sun burning bright
I cannot die on Sunday
It's bitter memories have left their stain
Though some have been alright
Still, I'll wait to die on a Monday

If you don't mind
I lied, it doesn't matter if you do
I would not die the day she said goodbye
When God never showed his face
To honor her anyway

She didn't deserve that
She only followed the doctors orders
Leaving one year to the day
So don't let me die on Sunday
If you care, I know you do
The rest of the week will do

My prerogative, a change of heart
Postponing an announcement
Call me indecisive
But Sunday can't hold the power
After all to call the shots
It ain't right

-bushman
10/02/2016
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Oct 2, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
Oh god Gunkie. That's so devastating. Deepest condolences.

Bushman you are a talent.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 2, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
What Flip Flop said, sorry to hear Gunkie.

It has been a tough month, thanks for posting this Allyson. Losing good people all around is tough...
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Oct 2, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
Losing a child is unimaginable to me, I'm sorry for you and your brother, Gunkie.

Once a young cousin of ours lost his dad (Uncle Joe Madrid) after a long and devastating illness. I told the boy how sorry I was that he lost his dad. He said to me, "thanks, but it's not your fault." I thought he must have gotten tired of hearing it and kids can be so honest sometimes. I always laugh to myself a little whenever I remember it.

The boy had a rocky start and we all as a family looked out for him and his opportunity. For a while when in high school he wanted to enlist, but because he was the only Madrid left from his side of the family, we counseled him to stay in school through college. Not that we wouldn't be proud of him for volunteering to serve his country, but his aunts and grandma were all worried. He's on his way to becoming a career fireman now, proud.

Death

So unexpected in all it's immediacy
Even when expected
Is so permanently vexing
As though the void left by a loved one
Concusses
By their lack of presence
For long into the future
Who we are

A parent, sibling, child, aunt, uncle, niece or nephew,
Or a close friend
Beloved family member
In-laws, outlaws, suffering, lost or taken
Each defines how or who we are
In every infinite and finite measure
A part of us goes with them
Severed from us

Sometimes their death is reconciled
Or quietly understood
Others leave a temple road
Intersecting every avenue of our lives
Whatever grief that we are left with
It cannot be diminished
Before its time

-bushman
10/02/2016

October's tough for me. October 3rd my late mother's birthday, October 5th the day I lost my brother. It was way, way harder for her. Thanks for listening.
yedi

Trad climber
Stanwood,wa
Oct 2, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
Having lost our 24yr old son two years ago I can attest to the excruciating pain a parent goes through as we watched our son die. I will probably never be the same, our world changed forever that day. I do have times of joy but the way I see my reality has been forever altered I'm afraid.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Oct 2, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
Yedi.....No parent should have to experience their childs passing...Sorry for your troubles...
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Oct 2, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
I finally decided to post a picture of my lost loved one here. Not for sympathy, but to honor the woman who accompanied me through many years of the life we built together. Maybe this is also another step on the path to closure? But this is also to honor those others who have had a loss. I Made a promise to myself and indirectly to Anne, that she should be remembered as a climber--which was probably her driving force in life before her illness.


A few biographical details: She was also a chemical professional, having won the 1973 North Carolina State Science Fair her Senior year of HS, and was a 1977 Graduate of Case Institute of Technology with B.S. in Chemistry. As a climber, was incredibly strong and smooth on steep rock. Some of her better accomplishments: Butterfly Crack, Trashcan Rock, Joshua Tree; (5.11c). Gleaming the Cube, Fremont Canyon; (5.12a). Other Side of 40; Fremont Canyon; (5.12a).

She is now wheelchair bound and can no longer read, but still has memories of climbing.
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