Sloan-ification of the Nose rap route

then YOSAR should rap in on 70 meter ropes and bust their asses

save El Cap from becoming the road-side crag the future generation wants it to feel like!

I'm not in favor of new retro bolts all over the Valley, but i do recognize that things have chamged allot with longer ropes being the new standard. As much as we like to hold onto the past, the future is here and now.

what kind of party is really going to bail from sickle?

Seems very self centered and irresponsible. He could probably do some good work if he would listen a little more to the rest of the community, but he seems to have cadre of yes men to sanction his desires.

So Escopeta is saying that YOSAR should slash all Eriks tires and beat the sh!t out him for putting in anchor bolts.

So Escopeta is saying that YOSAR should slash all Eriks tires and beat the sh!t out him for putting in anchor bolts.

Now that's some stoopid sh!t to say .......

There is no way I can imagine it's more convenient to make single rope raps than double rope raps on a Grade VI route. This seems to me to expressly to serve to make emergency bailing safer and easier. Where is the negative in that?

And no, this does not correlate to making an R/X CLIMB safer.

He's putting in anchors to be able to bail from sickle with one rope in case that's all you got.

Where's your outrage at Jardines blatant chiseling and manufacturing of holds.

Real men use 50 meter ropes anyway.

Nose In A Day teams need extra belays

These new stations are going to go miles toward relieving the ever present Nasal Congestion...The best part is there are now stations at 60m and 120m from the ground, so you can haul to Sickle in three hauls, instead of four...Now the Niad teams can practice their Sickle and Dolt runs with one rope, which will really speed things up, and the hauling teams will get to Sickle easier, and will have less folks clogging up their scene...'Dolt runs' are super popular now (people hoping to do Nose in a day often climb once to Dolt Tower and rappel, to suss out the lower, slippery and strenuous sections), so getting dedicated, one-rope raps from there will seriously reduce congestion on the route itself, and will lead to people have more fun, and hopefully moving more smoothly, on the Nose!

It's a blank wall down that way basically and just a rappel line only far away from the climbing pitches.

This why I have asked if those commenting have done the Nose.

Just what are you people projecting?

Mine was finishing my custom non lethal shotgun mount for Bear management vehicle .....

Sep 3, 2016 - 10:56am PT
If you read the referenced MP thread, Sloan gives specific reasons for his handiwork.

These new stations are going to go miles toward relieving the ever present Nasal Congestion...The best part is there are now stations at 60m and 120m from the ground, so you can haul to Sickle in three hauls, instead of four...Now the Niad teams can practice their Sickle and Dolt runs with one rope, which will really speed things up, and the hauling teams will get to Sickle easier, and will have less folks clogging up their scene...'Dolt runs' are super popular now (people hoping to do Nose in a day often climb once to Dolt Tower and rappel, to suss out the lower, slippery and strenuous sections), so getting dedicated, one-rope raps from there will seriously reduce congestion on the route itself, and will lead to people have more fun, and hopefully moving more smoothly, on the Nose!

Discuss among yourselves---those of you who know what all this really means. I'm far too removed from the Yosemite scene to make an intelligent comment. Infer what you will about the fact that I'm commenting nonetheless.

Personally, I find it highly problematic when a single individual appoints themselves arbiter of safety or, in this case, traffic control, and then drills in order to realize their personal vision about what is best for the world.

My perhaps irrelevant experience with small crags in the East suggests that every even a well-intentioned bolting effort brings with it unintended consequences that diminish climbers experiences by increasing traffic both up and down the routes. (Note that I am not speaking here of the arcane so-called "ethical" discussions about the topic.) What I've seen is that every time you make something easier, you bring in people who wouldn't have been there when it was harder, and so the net effect, if you believe you are going to decrease congestion, is typically the very opposite of that goal.

When bolts are continually added to so-called trad routes, two things happen. First, the prevalence of fixed anchors continually eats away at climbers' former reluctance to carve up mountains for their own convenience. Like violence in the movies and on TV, climbers become more and more desensitized and so far more tolerant. "What the hell, its increasingly universal and this is the new reality" is a resigned (or polemical) sense of inevitability you can find in every discussion.

Second, the result is a climbing population that expects to have the same level of convenience everywhere they go, which means there is popular pressure for more of the same thing. The net effect is that the presence of ever more fixed anchors eventually creates a new population whose consensus favors...more fixed anchors!

Because the methods under debate eventually change the population, the debate can easily disappear as the potential for alternate perspectives disappears. This is one of the ways conservation fails in all areas. The drug addicts, if you will, get to run the show. And of course part of running the show is heaping scorn on those who would try to slow the march of "progress," so any efforts at conservation will always be met with irrelevant ad hominen attacks.

So uninformed, unintelligent or not, my comment is that Sloan's work is (most optimistically an unwitting) part of a trend that wants to rend the fabric of climbing as an activity that is part of the natural scene and is subject, for better or worse, to the vagaries of nature, and replace it with a Frankenstein-like monster, neither fully natural nor fully artificial, tailored ultimately to personal convenience, and offering a sanitized version of nature to a population that increasingly demands it. Is the Nose too far gone for this to matter? Perhaps, but as part of a bigger phenomenon that is accelerated by every "improvement" to the natural scene, there is still reason for climbers with all kinds of differing perspectives to be concerned.

LOL .... when are you gonna do the NOSE?

Did you really lose sleep over this, lol .......

I suspect it will more likely be used by the overly ambitious NIAD parties who go up without the requisite skill or experience,
knowing they can bail more easily, making a REALLY crowded route even more so.

With his crazed determination to grid bolt every square inch of the Valley,

The Nose has already for over 40 years been set up to bail easily from anywhere.

Ease of exit off of the Nose isn't really the issue as you point out.

So uninformed, unintelligent or not, my comment is that Sloan's work is (most optimistically an unwitting) part of a trend that wants to rend the fabric of climbing as an activity that is part of the natural scene and is subject, for better or worse, to the vagaries of nature, and replace it with a Frankenstein-like monster, neither fully natural nor fully artificial, tailored ultimately to personal convenience, and offering a sanitized version of nature to a population that increasingly demands it. Is the Nose too far gone for this to matter? Perhaps, but as part of a bigger phenomenon that is accelerated by every "improvement" to the natural scene, there is still reason for climbers with all kinds of differing perspectives to be concerned.

So if the climbing population increasingly demands a new way of climbing are you old farts going to stand with arms crossed and prevent them from doing it?

Despite the fact that I actually am an active climber, unlike Lil Bang Bang who does nothing but talk and shoot, my opinion on the matter is also irrelevant, I think, because I don't climb in Yosemite. If the locals (whatever that means) can't police themselves, they've got nobody to blame.

suburban sh!thole you choose to call home

Burch

Mountain climber

Sep 4, 2016 - 09:47pm PT
F, don't you have some 5.7 crack you need to go tape up for again?

Leave the valley alone, go drink a little too much Carlo Rossi and start offering to pay for the cute boys classes again. Know your role, braj.

Like I said, its only a few bail anchors away from me having a go at it.

"Personally, I find it highly problematic when a single individual appoints themselves arbiter of safety or, in this case, traffic control, and then drills in order to realize their personal vision about what is best for the world.

Although I agree with your statement 100 percent Rich, you expressing it in this manner implies that is the case here. I suspect that ES doesn't decide to do these things and just act alone as you seem to be suggesting.

confiscate Cordless drills...

2. The FA party most definitely can make their choices about "convenience" and risk. Your job is to respect that or get the route done first. Not change it to make it even more convenient for you.

Lets face it, rapping from Dolt Tower even with the Rohr Route/Stoveleg bolts remains an unsavory task, especially in bad weather.
But convenience bolts for people too lazy to bring 2 ropes? Should every Yosemite route be retrofitted in this fashion? Then again, the pile of rock dust from 20 more holes wouldn't fill a pint jar...

But I say the world's most famous rock climb doesn't need more convenience.

"characterize me any way that you want to but think about what I am saying"

I did everything quietly and by example while I was actively climbing and establishing routes but that doesn't cut it these days in my estimation.

PTPP Wrote:
Steve Grossman wrote,

I did everything quietly and by example while I was actively climbing and establishing routes but that doesn't cut it these days in my estimation.

Complete and total horsesh#t.

You wrote a chapter on ethics in a well published aid climbing text which libeled Mark and Richard and Wings of Steel.

This - a route so easily viewed,that if you had bothered to hike your lazy fat ass and a pair of binoculars thirty minutes uphill you could see it wasn't the overbolted heap you told us all it was. I certainly believed you.

And now in the face of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, you have yet to apologize to them.

Why not?

"Everything quietly and by example" MY lazy lard ass.

Rob Slater also said the route was overbolted and that is straight out of Richard's book.

If Erik Sloan is illegally power drilling in the Yosemite Wilderness let's hope the climbing rangers bust this thug and set an example so that other criminals think twice.

My memory of the passage wasn't accurate looking it up again. My bad.

Steve Grossman wrote:
My memory of the passage wasn't accurate looking it up again. My bad.

Back to something we can agree on like Sloanification...

It's funny Richard that as soon as we three were going to sit down and settle our differences you chose to attack NACHA and the work that I am doing instead so it would seem that you really don't want to resolve anything.

Care to enlighten me on your timing there?

The Vargen sit down is the event in question. If you really wanted to bridge our differences why attack NACHA which has pretty broad support right after we all agree to get together?

Grossman I respect what you have put up and think you have a valid argument and don't see you as a pussy. You definitely come off as a dick though. Maybe you are fine with that and I'm not saying you should change if you are, but I tend to not listen to your rants because of this fact.

Richard. Quit ranting. Set up the meeting. At Facelift. Do this!

this thread is like this boulder...