SpaceX explosion

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Messages 1 - 126 of total 126 in this topic
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 1, 2016 - 08:50am PT
I hope they are following the old adage "Never bet more than you can afford to lose".

A remarkable company with a proud list of accomplishments.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:08am PT
"An anomaly"

The X in SpaceX
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:09am PT
Sh#t happens along the journey to discovery and knowledge. Hope everyone is ok.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:09am PT
Yup, I always used the 'anomaly excuse' when I couldn't send too.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:21am PT
I was very sad to see this.
I LOVE what they are trying to do and have been successful.
If at first you don't succeed....you know the rest.
If they did a "go fund me" I would give...I don't have much but I would!


Susan
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:25am PT
Plenty of setbacks for NASA over the years. If you don't fail sometimes, you're not trying hard enough.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:25am PT
My youngest anomaly is 17.
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Sep 1, 2016 - 09:53am PT
keep this up and there will be nascar fans and big ticket gate fees
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Sep 1, 2016 - 11:13am PT
What's the problem, anyway? It's not like it's rocket science.

Oh wait...

Curt
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 2, 2016 - 02:26am PT
That was a novel way to get. Attention . . .oh wait isn't that the third rocket to go boom?
( the 5th ?)


With all due respect to the denizens of science who's valuable contributions
I recognize. You are all geniuses, and top rung in you myriad of fields. While intellectually, I know the world, my world, is better for the works of science, it is not as healthy a world as we could have if half as much effort were put towards. . . . ? my list below would be a start.




I was glad to to see it go pop, .... up in flames!
Old myths die hard


big fire balls often speak volumes.


Bringing the Internet to the world is an
Excellent use. It will bring education

(So not, what I'd said, ranting n the gloom of dawn, I've toned it down)



FIRST ( BEFORE )


Raise up All Women!

Bring water to the thirsty

feed the hungry,

cure the sick,

stop pollution,

raise up All women!


(Stop Slavery, 200 girls taken....?)!! Ember that?

It would be nice if, as face fart founder, &tsp oiled oildMusk,
put the vastness of their fortunes to good works......
First!

No more fire balls, Stop the madness
the worlds great minds can do so much more than the farce .that is Rocket science.

Based in military superiority, the idea that more than ten people will ever go any where in or
out of the earths orbit Is bull shjt

If we could we would.... .



Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 2, 2016 - 07:16am PT
Space X should just buy Atlas Vs from Boeing, and fly those. 100% reliability.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Sep 2, 2016 - 07:58am PT
As a federally licensed manufacturer of explosives I must say, THAT was one of the most impressive decompositions I have ever seen.

I hope Michael Bay wants to simulate it one day :)

[Click to View YouTube Video]
WBraun

climber
Sep 2, 2016 - 08:07am PT
200 million dollar Facebook Israel spy satellite payload blows up with it ....
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 2, 2016 - 08:13am PT
Seems odd to test fire a rocket with valuable payload on board.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 2, 2016 - 08:18am PT
Hey, this better not mean I won't be able to get Howard Stern on Sirius XM when I'm in
Saline Valley this weekend, will it?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
Wow. There's a carbon footprint for you.
labrat

Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
Sep 2, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
From the time delay on the sound it looks like the camera was about 12 miles away. Wonder how far away the workers were from the pad? Was it super scary for them or are they shielded in some sound and shock proof bunker?
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Sep 2, 2016 - 03:27pm PT
very strange
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 2, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
Very Strange

That says more to me than the presence of satellite(s) on board

I Was specifically thinking, while ranting like a yodel la shewho - a Hippy I once knew, Of the vast technical expertise needed to make it go bang-boom.

I was sure that the levels of gasses released would be less flammable?

Super heated Air? Is the oxygen content high enough to cause that bright white flare?
Isn't all that orange fire cooler in temperature by Many multiples ?
I'm not even a hobby rocket guy but . . . It was LIKE the Challenger. At least in its spectacular
Pyrotechnic display.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
No rocket scientist here, but I read that they super cool the fuel to condense it and carry more.

It looks like the explosion occurred first up where the payload and the rocket are joined.

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Sep 2, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
So i am a rocket scientist and not the only one who thought this looked really strange. i have studied the lessons learned from hundreds of rocket misadventures. I wrote the original design for the launch abort detection system for the NASA Ares I launch vehicle. That is the system designed to get the astronauts up and away from an exploding launch vehicle. I also worked as a NASA systems engineering reviewer of the SpaceX launch vehicles. I don't know enough to endorse the conclusions of this article, but the data referenced seems incontrovertible:


http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/09/02/ufo-destroys-israeli-weaponised-satellite-on-the-launch-pad/

UFO destroys Israeli weaponised satellite on the launch pad
By Ian Greenhalgh on September 2, 2016

...this time the "smoking gun" is a foo fighter and energy weapon...it seems not everyone "out there" believes Greater Israel is a galaxy-wide proposition…

[Editor’s note: The event depicted in the photographs below is not our conspiracy theory. The UFO destruction theory of the “facebook” satellite, now that’s a conspiracy theory if I ever heard one, comes from NASA. From their notes:
A. UFO
B. Airborne Laser weapons test on third stage booster?
C. Small nuclear explosion caused by lithium ion batteries shorting out. Or other nuclear source in the third stage guidance unit.
D. Not a kerosene or hydrogen fuel fire as initial cause.
The satellite and its geosynchronous booster were intact until it is seen collapsing and producing a secondary explosion. Everything else is a kerosene fuel fire.
Either we have 3 UFO’s in the photos or they are aircraft landing lights???(referring to last set at the bottom)

This is what they believe and, being who we are, they couldn’t simply let it go without pulling the tail as it were. We agreed, as we are inclined to do, to aid them in this task. g]


Launchpad explosions of rockets is a fairly common thing, after all, a rocket is really a bomb waiting to go off and even with very careful handling, they do sometimes blow up due to technical issues.

This explosion however is something altogether different. This was no mere explosion of a rocket while being fueled, this was a deliberate act of destruction.

Note that the explosion occurs near the top of the rocket, where there aren’t any fuel tanks, the explosion is also far hotter than would be caused by rocket fuel – note the bright white blob on the video bright enough to cause a lens flare (the four diagonal streaks). The rocket fuel burning comes several frames later and is quite different looking – the colours are reds and oranges with black and grey smoke, this is a secondary explosion where the rocket fuel was ignited by the primary explosion further up the rocket.

Now for the really shocking bit – the craft responsible for this destruction was caught in the video – a small spherical object that flies from right to left on the screen and appears to have fired some kind of laser or beam weapon at the rocket.

So now the big question is this: Just what had the Israelis built into that satellite that someone decided had to be destroyed before it could be placed in orbit? Our working theory is that it was some kind of weapon, quite possibly a laser as we received intelligence some time ago that a space based laser had been used to cause several mysterious explosions in Iran.

This is a story we will be delving further into and will report on further as we uncover more.
cragnshag

Social climber
san joser
Sep 2, 2016 - 06:09pm PT
No, Bud Light.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 2, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
Um? Pot callin' kettle...
As an avitar alone what is it? high fructose corn spirit?
That's the one - are you moon shine.
That's my bet.
Mr Cochrane, on the other hand has both taken and given very relevant insight.
His expertise on this in this fast a response time speaks to his sincerity.

I worry for him fooling around on this Forum with all the loose cannons that populate the taco!

His equally esteemed fellow scientists have taken a noticeably longer time to comment.

The very likely hood that TC knows volumes of both real and fake programs makes his post
more not less in earnest.

If you hfcs, or anyone else can say more please do so.

The sides that disagree on the point of . . . or goals of . . . the continued use of billions of dollars across the globe, to produce great pyrotechnic displays as well as maybe piercing earths orbit to explore other Planets, is A fundamental part of being a modern human .
We have all been conditioned ...

As well as the old adage, IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE! And as I am a nutcase . . I can assure you
Mr Cochrane is not one!

You HFCs ? The jury remains out




Edit: 9/4/16
WeakSauce! Anyone say that anymore?

Wow!
Really you deleted!

What the guy who's post now come next said!

Before you deleted both of your Obnoxious posts,
I had a higher opinion of you MoonShine, arsewipe!

Trying hard not to go see what it is that you stand for?
Reading your posts to no climbing threads?
I'm not going to waste the time.

There is a craft (& a beam,) it was seen,
there are more than enough rumors of the existence of laser weaponry.

The very real blanket cover of what's going on should give a climbers' Mind pause.
#arsewipehighfructosecornspiritMoonshine,
I venture you were never much of a, -"wing it on the gear of the day"- kinda climber



removed from the last post & placed here:

I was not and do not think it an extraterrestrial source.
What is clear, again to a Rock Climbers Mind, which needs to have ALL the Facts.
that all the things considered, we don't know enough to be able to judge.

Now as the proof is being changed ( which is proof of something?)
it goes from strange to the only conclusion
You can make; the ~Duk 'n Cov'r,n build a Bunker ~ mentality seems more viable
and less crazy.

WBraun

climber
Sep 2, 2016 - 08:47pm PT
The anonymous coward HFCS fruitcake with NO credibility period attacks Tom who is not an anonymous coward with tons of credibility.

Same cowardly actions as usual from HFCS and then deleted all his posts .......

Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 3, 2016 - 09:47am PT
My initial take without seeing the up-close and personal photographic record was a fuel leak and static discharge for ignition. Upon closer examination of the photographic record, The actual ignition seems to be right at the base of the fairing, and not near the fueling ports of the rocket. As an industrial chemist, I find it almost impossible to believe that a $200,000,000 system wouldn't be adequately grounded, along with all the refueling apparatus. SpaceX simply had too much at risk to allow any sloppy connections to be the culprit.

I've never been a big believer in UFOs, but--what the H*ll was the metallic appearing sphere?
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 3, 2016 - 10:21am PT
I just went back to the first "raw" footage released, and the "strange 'UFO-like' objects" seem to be missing. Another bit of doctoring the images? Done by Israel-haters? By UFO conspiracy freaks? Or was the released footage doctored to remove the metallic appearing sphere?

To echo Tom's comment: Strange!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 3, 2016 - 02:30pm PT

Is the oxygen content high enough to cause that bright white flare?
Isn't all that orange fire cooler in temperature by Many multiples ?
I'm not even a hobby rocket guy but . . . It was LIKE the Challenger. At least in its spectacular
Pyrotechnic display.

Here's a truck accident with a puny bottle of oxygen cooking off.

The white just means it was bright enough to saturate a CCD camera.

Full video here:
[Click to View YouTube Video]

I was on the NJ Turnpike years ago when an oxygen tanker went off in a single explosion about 5 miles in front of me. Pretty exciting even at that distance. By the time we got there the surrounding meadows were just black as the oxygen just consumed everything around.

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Sep 3, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
This doesn't necessarily reflect an extraterrestrial actor.

It appears someone targeted the lithium battery pack with an x-ray laser. You can do your own homework from here....
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 3, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
I was already pondering a Lithium battery explosion; that seems to be plausible. The RP-1 and LOX seem to be secondary explosions, later by fuel from the satellite itself--hypergolic fuels blowing up.

Added it edit: It would take a very powerful X-Ray laser to induce an explosion of the Lithium Ion battery!
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 3, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
The two of you should look for shoes on mars.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Sep 3, 2016 - 09:38pm PT
That capability was developed as part of SDI
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 3, 2016 - 09:57pm PT
I suppose it all comes down to X's and O's and I'm all for science and tech, but why not put the brain power on getting PEOPLE drinking water rather trips to space.

As I understand it space will still be there when more pressing issues have been addressed.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Sep 3, 2016 - 11:02pm PT
If you want to address those sorts of issues, you'd better rise above the brainwashed sheeple and research why the controllers invest so much planning and resources in abusing humanity. All that bad news is not accidental or caused by neglect.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 4, 2016 - 07:27am PT
No matter which party or polititrd is "in charge," the "more pressing problems" will always "be there."

As it stands, the budget for space flight and associated research amounts to a very miniscule dollar amount of the national budget. The NASA annual budget is less than $20 Billion, In comparison to the defense budget where a single F 35 fighter jet costs $350 Million, we do get a lot of bang for the buck from space research.

On the other hand, Orbital ATK, and SpaceX are mostly self-funded through contracts placing communications satellites in a variety of orbits, in addition to resupply of the ISS.

SpaceX has led the way towards making space "affordable," through recovery and pending reuse of the expensive first stage booster rockets. Lockheed-Martin and Boeing make their living by selling "overhead," through terrible "cost plus" contracts. The bigger the overhead, the bigger the bill they are able to submit to NASA for repayment.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 4, 2016 - 08:18am PT
Apparently what we have here is a third world problem.

I am curious as to who "the controllers" are.


Kind of six of one, half dozen of the other, eh.

On the one hand you have a bunch of dead people, on the other some folks joyriding to the moon.

Same ballpark, different game.


Regional malaria elimination campaigns were first conducted in the late 1940s, preparing the ground for the Global Malaria Eradication Program in 1955. This campaign succeeded in eliminating malaria from Europe, North America, the Caribbean and parts of Asia and South-Central America.7 But no major success occurred in sub-Saharan Africa, which accounts for 80% of today’s burden of malaria.8 When the aspiration of global eradication was abandoned in 1969, the main reasons for failure were technical challenges of executing the strategy especially in Africa.





TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Sep 4, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
It seems many posters here would rather make inane remarks to entertain themselves and sustain an oblivious level of understanding. I continue posting here because I know that quite a few ST followers are sufficiently intelligent to remain remote from the target zone. If you seriously want to further your understanding of some of these political issues, start pulling on a very long thread starting with the term 'Khazarian'. And please don't use that suggestion to accuse me of any specific political orientation.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 4, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
Space Communications (Spacecom), is preparing to demand compensation from IAI (Israel Aerospace Industries) for $205 Million, as well as SpaceX for $50 Million. Spacecom has offered SpaceX the option of using a new rocket to lift the replacement satellite on a no charge basis.

Spacecom was reported to be in the final stages of a sale of the business to the Chinese financial concern , Beijing Xinwei Technology group for $285 Million. Really? Now the company is demanding $255 Million in compensation for their losses. Somehow, the "coincidence" surrounding the explosion and proposed financial deal has something of a bad odor to it....

Added as an edit: The satellite WAS insured IN FLIGHT. However, as the incident occurred before liftoff--it wasn't covered, and the insurance premium has already been refunded to Spacecom.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Sep 4, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
who designed that rocket, Werner Von Braun?

stoopid germans,

next time use precision engineering teams from US based institutions,

except hippy disc golfer canibis frealk from UCSC,
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 4, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
Here's a YouTube video that I consider "interesting." This is a FWIW post, and I neither support nor deny it's validity. What do YOU think?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 5, 2016 - 06:53am PT
I think aliens fearing our technology makes better sense.
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 5, 2016 - 07:17am PT
You should use smilies, Cragman, someone might actually believe you are serious.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 5, 2016 - 07:26am PT
Wait.... I thought mysterious evil spies from Russia (directed by Putin of course) are the enemy du jour?

The teevee tells me so.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 5, 2016 - 08:39am PT
Whenever a mysterious event occurs, I always use the dictum, "follow the money." An explosion during a fueling operation is not logical, as the RP-1kerosene was already onboard; this happened during the loading of supercooled liquid oxygen (LOX). Tom's statement of some energy beam weapon cannot be ruled out entirely, or simply pooh-poohed as a "conspiracy theory." In addition to the follow the money approach, even the Romans in their Senate would ask after an assassination, "Que bene?" Who benefits?

There are 3 possibilities here: (1) the rocket had a flaw and blew up; (2) the satellite (loaded with hypergolic fuels, self-igniting) blew up; and/or (3) some sort of foul play. My above comments have addressed possibility (3).
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Sep 5, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
The minute I saw the explosion on the raw footage I was suspicious. Why was there a flash of high intensity radiation prior to the blast? And why was the initial flash perfectly symmetrical? I thought it must be an SDI particle accelerator weapon that hit the spacecraft. Typically, these rockets explode from the ground up. Not from the second stage prior to ignition. Then I started looking for more utube coverage and found the first 1/100 sec timelapse was blank screen!? Was this a coverup, I thought.... Then I looked back at the raw footage using manual slow mo on my Iphone and noticed an object flying by behind the scene just as the flash occurred! After more surfing I found some videos in slo mo that show a third generation stealth fighter looking object blaze by at mach 2 or better (ridiculous speed at sealevel). Just as the "UFO" passes the rocket you see the flash. The flash is WAY brighter than the explosion and makes a perfectly symmetrical chorion around the second stage. THEN IT EXPLODES. The explosion was a much lower energy light than the initial flash. From what it looks like, someone in our government doesnt want Africa to have social media communications because ISIS use them for alot of stuff. And certainly they dont want Isreal to control it. If the Isrealis built the comsat, you can bet it relays EVERYTHING to them for surveillance purposes. Im convinced this was US sponsored espionage. And more power to US. When the private sector controls the highground of space, democracy will cease to exist. I for one dont want men like Musk and Zukerterd to have that kind of power.
ruppell

climber
Sep 5, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Sep 5, 2016 - 07:40pm PT

I was wondering why there was such a loud explosion when the payload
hit the ground. Not a small boom, that.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Sep 5, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
"Whenever a mysterious event occurs, I always.." reach for Ockham's (Occam's) Razor.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Sep 5, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
^^^^

agreed... me too:

thanks obama!

[hahahahahaha... and obama as evil as they come? i don't even know where to start a response to that one... except maybe to say goddamn do i hope trump wins... he's the only "leader" who might just bring to fruition the type of world that that sort of thinking so deeply desires, instead of just continuing to flirt with half measures that continue to postpone an inevitable and increasingly painful reckoning]
ruppell

climber
Sep 5, 2016 - 08:20pm PT
Mighty,

Most conspiracy nuts have never heard of Occam's Razor. If they did, and used it in practice, well then they wouldn't be conspiracy nuts.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Sep 5, 2016 - 08:20pm PT
No, they'd cut themselves, and bleed to death.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 5, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
Have they ruled out sparks from a Mt. bike pedal...?
ruppell

climber
Sep 5, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
Two very good replies gentleman. I'm still laughing. Thanks.
Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Sep 5, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
Looking at the explosion video over and over a little blip of light appears to the right of the right tower a split second before the explosion.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 5, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
Just refer back to Tom Cochrane's posts for the initial hypothesis of a high energy beam weapon.

Don't blame Musk; his company simply provides the delivery service of the customer's payload to GTO, where the satellite's own thrusters make the orbital adjustments.

SteveW: the satellite itself contained a significant load of monomethylhydrazine and Nitrogen oxides for it's rocket propulsion system. That went BOOM when it hit the ground.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Sep 6, 2016 - 12:41am PT
probably a load of paste from Escobar, El Chapo found out about it, turf war in all probablillty, Caro Quientero would never do a thing like that,
or would he?

Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 7, 2016 - 08:38am PT
The silence surrounding this investigation is deafening! Even a comment attributed to Elon Musk regarding the possibility of "foul play" has bee downplayed. Anybody else here heard anything?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 9, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
Despite SpaceX setback, future of private space exploration is bright...

http://spacenews.com/op-ed-despite-spacex-setback-future-of-private-space-exploration-is-bright/

Thank you Greg Autry for your thoughtful response.

"Space is hard."
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 9, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
HFCS-

Great link! ^^^^^^
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Sep 9, 2016 - 06:33pm PT
Don't look for conspiracies when you don't need to. SpaceX had a better than average launch record. 93% successful vs. the overall rate of 91%.

But launching rockets into orbit is hard. Sh!t will happen. There are good reasons for moving forward however.

http://spacenews.com/op-ed-despite-spacex-setback-future-of-private-space-exploration-is-bright/
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 10, 2016 - 11:18am PT
Here's an update posted on the spacefightinsider website:

http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/space-exploration-technologies/falcon-9-explosion-could-be-most-difficult-and-complex-failure-in-spacex-history/

SpaceX has not ruled out the possibility of something "hitting the rocket," according to a Tweet by Elon Musk.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Sep 10, 2016 - 11:26am PT
"It would not surprise me one bit should it be discovered that Obama was behind this event.

He is as evil as they come."



So says a Trump voter.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 10, 2016 - 11:46am PT
Did the military feed false UFO info to the public in the 1980's?




Ex-Air Force Law Enforcement Agent Says He Hoaxed Major UFO Mythologies


At first the AFOSI Public Affairs Chief was very helpful. She expedited my request, and I received some very interesting documents. I was told that when my FOIA request was fulfilled, she would help me find someone I could talk to for an official statement. However, once I got the documents, she would no longer talk to me.

What was in the documents was very interesting and corroborated some of the legend around the Doty affair. The story begins with a man named Paul Bennewitz, who owned a humidity equipment company with contracts with Kirtland AFB. His house and office were near Kirtland, and he believed he was seeing UFOs over a part of the base that housed nuclear weapons. He also believed he was receiving transmissions from the aliens that flew those UFOs. Surprisingly, the Air Force humored him. They sent out Doty and an officer to investigate, but AFOSI decided that further investigation was unwarranted.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alejandro-rojas/exair-force-law-enforceme_b_5312650.html



New Mexico Cop Says Military Responsible for Cattle Mutilations


The first publicized case of a strange cattle mutilation was outside of Alamosa, Colorado in 1967, only 100 miles or so northeast of Dulce. An appaloosa horse was found with the head and neck skinned and defleshed. The bones where white and clean, and there was a lack of blood in the area. The lacerations were cauterized as if a laser scalpel were used according to a pathologist out of Denver. No satisfactory explanation has ever been found as to how or why this animal was killed.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alejandro-rojas/cattle-mutiliations_b_932711.html
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 10, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
Additional update information:

http://spaceflight101.com/spacex-still-in-the-dark-on-falcon-9-failure-mechanism/
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
Sep 11, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
Here's something of general interest:

Metallic Hydrogen:
A Game Changing Rocket
Propellant

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/637123main_Silvera_Presentation.pdf
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 11, 2016 - 02:52pm PT
So I wonder if kids shooting at the rocket with a rifle could have caused this? Imagine if they discovered a bullet hole in the wreckage.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 11, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
HFCS-

I had a similar thought.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 11, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
That capability was developed as part of SDI

Yeah, and you can clearly see one of these in that explosion video if you stare at it long enough.


P.S. The SDI x-ray laser was pumped by a nuclear explosion - didn't see one of those in the video either...

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Sep 12, 2016 - 10:06pm PT
This story just keeps getting stranger, if you are still paying attention
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 13, 2016 - 06:25am PT
Is SpaceX’s rocket failure Blue Origin’s opportunity?


http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2016/0912/Is-SpaceX-s-rocket-failure-Blue-Origin-s-opportunity
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Sep 13, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
there must have been a malfunction,
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 13, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
Tom-

I've been following 3 different websites: SpaceflightInsider.com; spaceflight101.com; as well as space.com.

Do you have any link to what you're suggesting?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 13, 2016 - 10:46pm PT
"SpaceX Faked Its Rocket Landing"

"Lockheed Martin Blew Up SpaceX's rocket"

"ALIENS sabotaged SpaceX launch"

"UFO Caused SpaceX Rocket Explosion"

etc, etc, etc...

Just google "stupid"...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 14, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
It's amazing how knuckle dragging develops one's common sense and keeps you too damn busy to be all up in it fantasizing about all manner of conspiracies and aliens. Hell, the only reason I don't believe in chemtrails is my posture really prevents me from looking up for more than a glance or two at a time.
F

climber
away from the ground
Sep 14, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
Hahahaha!

Obama is definitely behind this one. The prophet said so.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Sep 15, 2016 - 10:14am PT
Veteranstoday.com has been tracking this; biased, but interesting insider sources
AlanDoak

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Sep 15, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
So I wonder if kids shooting at the rocket with a rifle could have caused this?

A rifle report would have been picked up by the numerous microphones around the launch site... and if the shooter was somehow close enough that the delay between the report and the explosion couldn't be distinguished, they would've been incinerated.

Besides, security at launch pads is really tight; they're not going to let kids near $100M+++ hardware, some of it military missions.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 15, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
Doak, I guess you don't know any 15 year olds with a BMG 50 cal like I do.
Is the perimeter 3 miles? If not then no probs hitting it with a 50 cal.
AlanDoak

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Sep 15, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
Is the perimeter 3 miles? If not then no probs hitting it with a 50 cal.

That's an interesting thought experiment. Here's an image of Complex 39, where the explosion occurred, along with scale in the bottom right corner.

I'd presume that the USAF can/does maintain a 3-mile perimeter here, but I suppose Iranian Spec-ops are pretty sneaky....

But again, a 50-cal has a significant sound signature that would have been recorded.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 15, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
It doesn't take a rocket machinist to make up a decent suppressor.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 15, 2016 - 09:33pm PT
Concert bootleggers would love to have some of those three mile sound recorders.

AlanDoak

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Sep 15, 2016 - 10:51pm PT
A suppressor wouldn't hide the supersonic crack of the projectile. It's still loud.

And it's not just one microphone, it's numerous staff, guards, observation equipment... And it's not like there's a bunch of jack hammers going off in the background to mask the sound.

But fine, I invite you to sneak onto an Air Force base and discharge a 50 cal at a $250M target, and not get noticed. Trip report with pictures, or it didn't happen.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 15, 2016 - 11:37pm PT
Now a .50cal specop I might buy and maybe someone could have gotten away with it this time. But you can bet your ass during the next launch a metamaterial-cloaked mosquito won't be able to get within a mile of the site without being detected, tracked across the frequency spectrum and recorded from every angle at a 200-picosecond frame rate. Ditto any kind of directed energy source. They'll be able to pinpoint any attack or threat source within seconds - good luck getting away.

As far as VT.com speculation about an x-ray weapon causing a small nuclear explosion in the helium tank or lithium batteries? Please - as in seriously?

Both the tank and batteries are targets of an enormous scale for such a purpose. There's no way hitting either with a single beam from one side could achieve the level of compression necessary to trigger any such explosion - the tank or battery casing would simply rupture long before that and neither is exactly a hohlraum. The very idea is so moronic that only an idiot would proffer it, let alone think anyone would believe it. Do we need to get Ed on here to explain the basics of why it is the NIF needs banks of massive lasers to throw 192 exquisitely timed and sliced laser pies at a miniscule target to achieve such an outcome? Or maybe you'd rather peruse this treatment of the topic? Or maybe some folks think the launch site was surrounded on all sides by a perfectly coordinated, ginormous squadron of flying x-ray lasers using GPS, navigation, control and targeting systems with sub-millimeter accuracy (and all powered by Bosch 36v batteries). Sure, that's gotta be it.

Crikey, it's not even good or interesting as fiction, sci-fi or comics fodder and falls so far into wtf-dom that one can only conclude the internet has spawned a massive outbreak of people who are sure a large percentage of the population are idiots who will swallow anything no matter how stupid or ludicrous that sh#t is and do it without so much as a sniff test. Sigh.
perswig

climber
Sep 16, 2016 - 03:57am PT
.50 BMG? So now we're fingering Carlos Hathcock?

Dale
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 16, 2016 - 07:15am PT
Dale, just trying to keep the hilarity level up, nawmean? 😇
(can you imagine what Carlos could have done with a BMG?)
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 16, 2016 - 08:31am PT
Ballistics pfffffffffft!


It was probably Oskar Matzerath. Doesn't he live near Reilly too?


[Click to View YouTube Video]


Meanwhile:

Someone -- possibly the government of China -- has launched a series of probing attacks on the internet's most critical infrastructure, using carefully titrated doses of denial-of-service to precisely calibrate a tool for shutting down the whole net.

...


There's more. One company told me about a variety of probing attacks in addition to the DDoS attacks: testing the ability to manipulate Internet addresses and routes, seeing how long it takes the defenders to respond, and so on. Someone is extensively testing the core defensive capabilities of the companies that provide critical Internet services.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 16, 2016 - 10:06am PT
...has launched a series of probing attacks on the internet's most critical infrastructure,

Happens every hour of every day and smart, larger companies hire people to run such probes against their systems to determine their exposed surface area. They similarly stress their internal systems with random systems and network outages. In fact, Netfix is way into failure testing and runs a 'simian army' of various types of attack programs to randomly take stuff down or introduce latencies or otherwise monkey around with everything. The first member of the simian army was called 'chaos monkey'.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 16, 2016 - 10:36am PT
^The author quoted won't say much about why he thinks it's the Chinese.

He's been sworn to secrecy on the details he says.

Bruce Schneier

https://www.lawfareblog.com/someone-learning-how-take-down-internet

chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Sep 16, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
So I guess Im a conspiracy theorist. But one thing is clear. There is alot of distrust and concern floating around about our government and corporations and corruption. Even if all the conspiracies prove false, one thing is clear from this discussion. There is considerable cause for concern. Maybe not based on one particular event. But trends these days are alarming and people are getting frustrated. History repeats itself... We live in an age of skulduggery and narcissism. America is the victim of what Harvard economists call "government capture," an oligarchy of special interests that may or may not have good intentions. Keep all three eyes open.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Sep 16, 2016 - 09:24pm PT

Sep 13, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
there must have been a malfunction,

No, it was an anomaly.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 17, 2016 - 08:03am PT
For the lay and/or laid back man

Abort! SpaceX, Boeing Taking Different Tacks in Launch Escape Tests


http://www.space.com/34086-spacex-boeing-test-crew-vehicle-abort-systems.html
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 17, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
It's a minimal loss in the grand scheme. It happens until the procedure is perfected.


Why would someone want to take out a private rocket launch? Motive? Just pure terrorism? Not much terror value in this case.

It was a failure. Technically insufficient. That's all. Is NASA involved in any of this, they're the one with the launch experience.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 17, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
My analysis is there was nothing wrong with the rocket, per se; the most simplistic explanation is a poorly grounded component in the refueling system, followed by a spark discharge in the oxygen rich environment where LOX was still transferring. Liquids being pumped through hoses develop lots of static electricity from internal friction. In the chemical industry, both the container from which fluids are transferred and the receiving vessel must be grounded to the same grounding rod. A connector coming loose could account for this "anomaly." This is the KISS (keep it simple, stupid!) analysis. Doesn't require foul play, lasers, shooting at the rocket, etc. Could have been a defective component in the pumping system as easily as in the rocket.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 18, 2016 - 02:42am PT
But trends these days are alarming and people are getting frustrated.

People these days are alarming because they're being played by people who profit from them being alarmed - particularly by sh#t designed as a distraction from noticing their wallet is being pinched while so terribly alarmed.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 23, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
SpaceX’s Falcon 9 explosion likely caused by breached helium system


SpaceX’s recent Falcon 9 explosion seems to have been caused by a breach in the "cryogenic helium system" of the vehicle's upper oxygen tank, according to an update from the company. However, SpaceX says the accident is not connected to last year's Falcon 9 explosion, when a rocket disintegrated en route to the International Space Station.




http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/23/13031308/spacex-falcon-9-rocket-explosion-cause-cryogenic-helium-system
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Sep 24, 2016 - 07:56am PT
The Helium tank is within the supercooled LOX tank. Any anomaly there would cause rupture to the LOX system. This is a fairly standard practice within the aerospace industry. According to Spaceflight101 website, there was a massive overpressure in the He system which destroyed the structural integrity of the surrounding oxidizer tank. SpaceX is hoping for an early November return to flight for it's Falcon 9 ver. 1.2 booster.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 24, 2016 - 11:20pm PT
Probably part of the learning curve of figuring out all the things that can go wrong when 'super chilling' liquid oxygen to high densities.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Sep 27, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
SpaceX said Friday that evidence points to a large breach in the rocket’s helium system during a routine prelaunch test that turned into a devastating fireball three weeks ago.

The Falcon rocket and the Israeli Amos-6 satellite were destroyed in the Sept. 1 explosion, which occurred on the pad two days before the scheduled liftoff. Most of the wreckage has been recovered and is being analyzed.

Facebook had planned to use the satellite, which was built by Israeli company Spacecom, to beam high-speed internet to sub-Saharan Africa.

In an update Friday, SpaceX said it’s still poring through video, audio and data from the moment the first sign of a problem occurs, until the actual fireball. That timeline covers less than one-tenth of one second. The data and debris indicate “a large breach” in the helium system of the second-stage liquid oxygen tank.

“All plausible causes are being tracked,” the company said on its website. There is no connection, the company stressed, with last year’s failed launch. That Falcon 9 rocket was en route to the International Space Station with supplies when it ruptured a few minutes into flight.

In that case, a support strut for a helium bottle apparently snapped in the second-stage oxygen tank, dooming the rocket. Helium is part of the pressurization system.

While the launch pad was damaged, nearby support buildings and fuel tanks were unscathed, according to the company. The control systems at the pad are also in decent condition. No debris appears to have strayed beyond the SpaceX-leased Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. Ground crews had been fueling the Falcon for a brief test-firing of the rocket’s engines; the launch pad was clear of workers for the test.

SpaceX continues to work on another pad, this one at neighboring Kennedy Space Center and once used to launch shuttles. It could be ready to support Falcon launches as early as November, depending on how the investigation goes. It is also preparing a launch pad in California.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 27, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
Thanks for the recap Tom but you're kinda late to the game.


couchmaster

climber
Oct 4, 2016 - 05:55am PT

I think Tom C nailed it upthread, sabatoged:

"September 4, 2016

China Enraged After Obama Orders SpaceX Rocket Destroyed On Florida Launch Pad

By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers

A new report circulating in the Kremlin today prepared by the Security Council (SC), with input from the Ministry of Defense (MoD), states that China became so “enraged” at President Obama’s ordering the destruction of a SpaceX rocket in Florida on Thursday (1 September) they refused to greet him as a visiting head-of-state upon his arrival at Hangzhou Xiaoshan International Airport (HGH) forcing America’s leader to “go out of the ass” of Air Force One and one Chinese official accosting his top National Security Advisor, Susan Rice, and screaming at her “this is our country, our airport”. [Note: Some words and/or phrases appearing in quotes in this report are English language approximations of Russian words/phrases having no exact counterpart.]


As to why President Obama was treated so “shamefully/dishonorably” by the Chinese, this report explains, was due to the United States “deliberate and calculated” military interference of a “legitimate” international business “transaction/sale deal” between China and an Israeli company named Spacecom.

According to this report, Spacecom is an Israeli communications satellite operator in the Middle East, European Union and North America headquartered in the city of Ramat Gan, Israel who agreed last month (24 August) to the sale of their company to the privately owned Chinese company Beijing Xinwei Technology Group.

The Beijing Xinwei Technology Group, this report continues, is one of China’s largest telecommunications companies that MoD analysts have long noted is “effectively owned and controlled” by the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA).

With the sale of Spacecom to Beijing Xinwei Technology Group being contingent upon the successful launching of the AMOS-6 satellite from Florida’s Cape Canaveral on Saturday (3 September), this report notes, the Obama regime “obviously/without doubt” determined that it would not be in the best interest of the United States to see this massive technology transfer take place—and in their not being able to stop this sale in any legal way, simply decided to destroy it.

As to how the AMOS-6 satellite was destroyed, this report continues, was from the firing of an advanced “laser-weapon” that was aboard an unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) launched from a US Navy aircraft carrier operating in the waters off the Eastern coastal waters of the US.

Specifically, MoD analysts in this report note, the US Navy nuclear powered supercarrier USS George Washington (CVN 73) reported last week that it was operating in these waters to test F-35C Lightning II fighter aircraft capabilities—but was, instead, conducting secret test flights of a Northrop Grumman X-47B (drone) that was equipped with a General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc. (GA-ASI) high-energy laser type device the Pentagon had previously reported they wanted to have operational in 2017.

On 1 September, these MoD analysts in this report say, Federation “satellite intelligence” detected a X-47B departing from the USS George Washington on a course towards Cape Canaveral—where this “laser equipped” drone then dropped from its “high flight altitude”, made a “circle/diameter” around a Falcon 9 rocket (owned by SpaceX) on the launch pad, immediately after which the rocket exploded destroying Spacecom’s AMOS-6 satellite—and that was captured by video recordings. "

...and an old link about the design parameters they were looking to develop from 2015. http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/09/drones-armed-high-energy-lasers-may-arrive-2017/121583/

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Oct 4, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
'Design parameters', also known as the 'pull-it-out-your-ass-wish-list' parameters for a tactical 150KW HELLADS system that isn't going into a Predator C anytime soon. As it is they're trying to get an operational system deployed on C-130s and destroyers in early 2020s and tactical fighters in the late 2020s/early 2030s, but the cooling and power systems integration are still substantial challenges on the C-130 platform let alone a Predator C or even an X-47B.

As it is the navy has been running tests with a 30KW laser on the USS Ponce, and the new, small Gen 3 HELLADS unit being tested running off a lithium battery pack for single thirty second 50KW+ shots still needs a ton of work on most technical aspects of the system. And keep in mind that's 30 seconds to get the beam up to power and hold it for a single shot. But they don't say whether the tests used auxiliary cooling and don't say how big a battery pack was - those omissions basically tell you the cooling and power don't scale down yet.

Bottom line is batteries are still a huge a pain in the ass and it's the same pain in the ass whether you're talking your iPhone, notebook or a Predator C laser. My guess is that even a basically useless but operational single-shot, high-KW drone laser package is a long, long way out but more likely never go to happen relative to the drone platforms like the predator. More likely it will likely have to wait for UAV fighters with bigger weapons payloads and onboard power; I mean, really, how useful is a single-shot laser and how much would you spend for one?

Here's a mockup of a 75KW gen 3 HELLADS sled - note that it doesn't have much in the way of batteries and doesn't include a targeting package which is yet more weight. It's likely they used another sled that size of just batteries to get a thirty second test shot.


Here's an army proposal for a 50KW package - 52ft long.


So, bottom line, laser drones, like x-ray drones, are out for the SpaceX explosion no matter who claims otherwise (and like you could get a drone within laser range of the launch site or heat the rocket for long enough to do the job without the SpaceX kids knowing - ridiculous of the face of it). Oh, and the USS George Washington moored at Pier 14N at NS Norfolk on September 1st after the aforementioned F-35C trials. Does anybody do basic fact-checking anymore or do we just believe any random made up sh#t off the internet? As a force for good, the internet is rapidly sinking below the level of 'Married With Children' and 'Ancient Aliens'.

And gosh - according to Faal, Obama was really busy kicking Israeli ass in Florida that week:

Florida Earthquake Reported Caused By Obama-Clinton Attempt To Destroy Israeli Sub

September 7, 2016

By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers

A stunning (but mostly secret) Ministry of Defense (MoD) report circulating in the Kremlin today states that the United States Navy “swiftly retaliated” yesterday against one of Obama-Clinton’s “private armies” who on 3 September attempted to destroy an Israeli submarine in the waters off the coast of Florida—and that was in that region to “observe/report on” the launching of the AMOS-6 satellite aboard a SpaceX rocket that was ordered destroyed last week by President Obama. [Note: Obama-Clinton hatred of both Russia and Israel is due to neither of these nations acceptance of what is called open border globalization.] [Note: Some words and/or phrases appearing in quotes in this report are English language approximations of Russian words/phrases having no exact counterpart.]

P.S. Can't wait to see what trump's "private [label] armies" look like.

couchmaster

climber
Oct 5, 2016 - 10:25am PT
Are you saying that the timeline is wrong for that story to be true? As far as military capabilities go we would not know if they can do this from public records more than likely. I have personally witnessed false capability statements that I knew to be lies coming from the US Army, and have worked recently with a Navy guy who told me they do the same thing about Carrier capabilities. The military has all kinds of sh#t they don't share with anyone and we don't know about. I'm fine with that.


Dated August 24 2016 http://spacenews.com/chinese-group-to-buy-israels-spacecom-satellite-operator-for-285-million/

"Apart from regulatory and shareholder approvals, the acquisition also hinges on the successful launch of Spacecom’s Amos 6 satellite, which the company said is scheduled to take place in the first week of September.

Opps, looks like a sale fail, as noted above in Shashas article. Just an ordinary man is Wang Jing:http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-canal-insight-idUSBREA4309E20140504


Timeline:
8/24/16 Sale of Spacecom to Chinese company announced.
9/2/16 SpaceX blows up
9/4/16 President snubbed at G20 summit in China
Obama Snubbed - http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/09/04/president-obama-china-united-states-xi-jinping/89862210/

"That the failure would take place during preparations for a static fire test, well before the engines briefly ignited, let alone during the launch itself, made the explosion all the more surprising and shocking. "
from http://spacenews.com/analysis-how-spacexs-spectacular-pre-flight-failure-fueled-a-jump-in-hasty-conclusions/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-reviewing-3000-channels-of-telemetry-in-failure-probe/

It could easily be sabotage. Or just as easily be a faulty O ring or some such. They are looking into it, if it was a military strike and the SpaceX investigators do learn of it and have evidence, we still may never know. That's where endless internet speculation comes in.


Regardless.
"The Inaugural Meeting of CPC Beijing Xinwei Telecom Technology Group Co.,N Ltd. Committee and the First Party Congress Were Successfully Convened

On December 8th, 2014, the inaugural meeting of CPC Beijing Xinwei Telecom Technology Group Co., Ltd. Committee and the First Party Congress were successfully convened in Baoguo Hall, Xinwei Building.

Wang Jing, President and Chairman of Xinwei Group, attended the meeting and extended congratulations on the convening of the meeting on behalf of Xinwei Group. He reviewed the fidelity of every Xinwei member towards party’s cause within the last 19 years since Xinwei’s establishment, especially since the restructuring of Xinwei. He pointed out: “Since the restructuring of Xinwei on December 31st, 2009, we have set the general goal of “Devotion to the Country”, and fostered the spirit of “Devote to the Public and Sacrifice for Others, Fulfill Commitments and Serve the Country”. Both our goal and spirit are in accordance with the party’s guidelines, lines, and requirements. Today, four years after the restructuring, with the achievements we have made one after another, we establish the CPC committee. It responds to the call of our times and is an important event of our group”."
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Oct 5, 2016 - 11:27am PT
The Blue Origin escape capsule test this morning was amazing. The crew capsule escape system was fired at about 16,000 ft. then the rocket finished climbing to 250,000 ft (or something) and landed successfully. They've reused the same rocket five times!

Here's a video link. Go to near the end, as there were lots of launch holds.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Oct 6, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
The idea of sabotage hasn't been ruled out...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
labrat

Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
Oct 6, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
"The Blue Origin escape capsule test this morning was amazing."

Totally agree!
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Oct 7, 2016 - 11:14am PT



https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/implication-of-sabotage-adds-intrigue-to-spacex-investigation/2016/09/30/5bb60514-874c-11e6-a3ef-f35afb41797f_story.html



Implication of sabotage adds intrigue to SpaceX investigation
by Christian Davenport September 30

The long-running feud between Elon Musk’s space company and its fierce competitor United Launch Alliance took a bizarre twist this month when a SpaceX employee visited its facilities at Cape Canaveral, Fla., and asked for access to the roof of one of ULA’s buildings.

About two weeks earlier, one of SpaceX’s rockets blew up on a launchpad while it was awaiting an engine test. As part of the investigation, SpaceX officials had come across something suspicious they wanted to check out, according to three industry officials with knowledge of the episode. SpaceX had still images from video that appeared to show an odd shadow, then a white spot on the roof of a nearby building leased by ULA, a joint venture between Lockheed Martin and Boeing.

The SpaceX representative explained to the ULA officials on site that it was trying to run down all possible leads in what was a cordial, not accusatory, encounter, according to the industry sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

The building, which had been used to refurbish rocket motors known as the SMARF, is just more than a mile away from the launchpad and has a clear line of sight to it. A representative from ULA ultimately denied the SpaceX employee access to the roof and instead called Air Force investigators, who inspected the roof and didn’t find anything connecting it to the rocket explosion, the officials said.

The interaction between SpaceX and ULA has not been previously reported. It is the latest odd development in the mystery surrounding the explosion of SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket on Sept. 1. The rocket blew up while it was being fueled ahead of an engine test fire, creating a huge fireball that charred the launchpad and rattled buildings miles away.

12 of the most stunning SpaceX photos
View Photos From launch to floating in space, a look at SpaceX through the years.
Elon Musk, SpaceX’s founder and chief executive, has called the failure “the most difficult and complex” the company has ever had. About a week after the explosion, he pleaded with the public to turn in video or audio recordings of the blast and said that the company has not ruled out sabotage as a factor.

“Particularly trying to understand the quieter bang sound a few seconds before the fireball goes off,” he wrote on Twitter. “May come from rocket or something else.”


Since then, SpaceX, which is leading the investigation with help from the Air Force, NASA and the Federal Aviation Administration, said it is narrowing down on the cause of the explosion, focusing on a breach in a second-stage helium system.

At a conference in Mexico this week, Musk said that finding out what went wrong is the company’s “absolute top priority,” but he said what caused the explosion is still unknown.

“We’ve eliminated all of the obvious possibilities for what occurred there,” he said. “So what remains are the less probable answers.”

He didn’t say what those might be.

The Air Force’s 45th Space Wing, which is helping SpaceX with the investigation, declined to comment because the investigation is ongoing.

A SpaceX statement said that the “Accident Investigation Team has an obligation to consider all possible causes of the anomaly, and we aren’t commenting on any specific potential cause until the investigation is complete.”

SpaceX and ULA are heated rivals that are competing over national security contracts that together are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. For nearly a decade, ULA had a monopoly on those contracts as the only launch provider certified by the Air Force.

But in 2014, SpaceX sued the Air Force for the right to compete. Last year, the parties settled and SpaceX was finally granted its certification. As a result, ULA fired its chief executive and hired a new one who vowed to compete with SpaceX.

This week, 10 Republican House members, many friendly to ULA, told NASA that SpaceX should not be leading the investigation and that authority should be turned over to the federal government.

Even though the investigation continues, SpaceX has said it intends to return to flight as soon as November, a timeline that has drawn industry skepticism.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Oct 7, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
The hurricane and aftermath will undoubtedly affect all launch manifests from Cape Canaveral. SpaceX still has a scheduled Iridium satellite package scheduled from Vandenburg AFB in November.

I would also wager that their next launch from the Cape will involve a pre-flown first stage.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Oct 31, 2016 - 12:52am PT
http://www.spacex.com/news/2016/09/01/anomaly-updates
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Oct 31, 2016 - 05:55am PT
ANOMALY UPDATES

SHARE ON FACEBOOKSHARE ON GOOGLE+SHARE ON TWITTER
Below are updates regarding the anomaly that occurred in preparation for the AMOS-6 mission:

October 28, 4:00pm EDT

The Accident Investigation Team continues to make progress in examining the anomaly on September 1 that led to the loss of a Falcon 9 and its payload at Launch Complex 40 (LC-40), Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida.

Since the incident, investigators from SpaceX, the FAA, NASA, the US Air Force and industry experts have been working methodically through an extensive fault tree to investigate all plausible causes. As part of this, we have conducted tests at our facility in McGregor, Texas, attempting to replicate as closely as possible the conditions that may have led to the mishap.

The investigation team has made significant progress on the fault tree. Previously, we announced the investigation was focusing on a breach in the cryogenic helium system of the second stage liquid oxygen tank. The root cause of the breach has not yet been confirmed, but attention has continued to narrow to one of the three composite overwrapped pressure vessels (COPVs) inside the LOX tank. Through extensive testing in Texas, SpaceX has shown that it can re-create a COPV failure entirely through helium loading conditions. These conditions are mainly affected by the temperature and pressure of the helium being loaded.

SpaceX’s efforts are now focused on two areas – finding the exact root cause, and developing improved helium loading conditions that allow SpaceX to reliably load Falcon 9. With the advanced state of the investigation, we also plan to resume stage testing in Texas in the coming days, while continuing to focus on completion of the investigation. This is an important milestone on the path to returning to flight.

Pending the results of the investigation, we continue to work towards returning to flight before the end of the year. Our launch sites at Kennedy Space Center, Florida, and Vandenberg Air Force Base, California, remain on track to be operational in this timeframe.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 2, 2017 - 01:56pm PT
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/02/technology/spacex-explosion-investigation/index.html?iid=ob_homepage_tech_pool

http://www.spacex.com/news/2016/09/01/anomaly-updates
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jan 2, 2017 - 06:28pm PT
Very interesting

Not sure I agree that using composites inside a LOX tank is a good idea...for several reasons...

You would think they'd have been able to see this one coming a long time ago from post operations inspections

Unless there was something unusual about the way the over-wrap was done on this one
Slabby D

Trad climber
B'ham WA
Jan 2, 2017 - 09:59pm PT
I don't know. The whole Obama blew it up with a laser beam just sounds far more credible.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 2, 2017 - 10:21pm PT
Probably no one had ever used such a configuration at those temp/densities combos before and they just got lucky with the prior launches using the new helium COPV configuration and loading temp. Sounds like they'll be rolling those configurations, helium temps and loading procedures back to a earlier known good configuration. I'd guess off-hand that will somewhat reduce their current first stage recovery range if they have to burn them longer to compensate for the second stage.

Type IV COPV Cold Gas Operation Challenges

Will be interesting to see if they move on to type V (no liner) COPV's in the future.

AlanDoak

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 3, 2017 - 05:30am PT
Scott Manley has an excellent explanation of the forensics so far:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcoTqhAM_g&t=0s

The working theory is that the densified liquid oxygen permeated through the composite overwrap on the helium tanks, and then froze. Then, as the pressure in the helium tanks was increased further, it caused localized stress that snapped or shifted the carbon fibers, resulting in enough friction/energy to ignite the fibers.

It's amazing to me that they were experimenting with optimizing the fuel loading procedures... on a non-conservative design... on a fully assembled rocket.... with a payload.

SpaceX touts their efficiencies and cost savings over the incumbents; but one reason ULA is so expensive is because everytime they have a mishap, those lessons learned are added to the Process Book.... which gets pretty dang thick. I'd love to see the economics change so that occasional failures are an acceptable cost, but I'm glad JWST isn't flying on an immature platform.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 3, 2017 - 05:38am PT
Thanks, I'll take a look at that. What you're saying is correct, though the driver as I understand it was the fact they were loading helium colder than they had previously in order to up its density. Unfortunately that new helium temp was cold enough to solidify the surrounding oxygen some of which had infiltrated the COPV's windings down to the liner. But they're using type IV COPVs given the type V linerless ones weren't in production yet so voids at the windings/liner interface may be unavoidable. I think, though, regardless of the COPV type, they're going to have to go with their previous higher helium temp on loading.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 4, 2017 - 12:22am PT
Watched the video and, yeah, he basically lays out the helium temp problem with type IV COPVs. The only thing I might quibble with is his last line about the difference between a rocket flying or blowing-up on the pad. I'd say this issue isn't about flying versus blowing-up so much as flying versus flying with a reduced rate of first stage recoveries. Reuse is at the heart of their value proposition and I suspect that alone will drive some serious innovation around this particular subset of technologies.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jan 4, 2017 - 09:14pm PT
Thanks Healyje, good comments.

So the fault tree traces back to failure of the pressurized Helium tank. Not too big a surprise there.

But there is a missing piece: what was the source of ignition?

Helium is an inert gas and doesn't combine in chemical reactions, which is part of why it is chosen for this application of pressurizing LOX tanks.
Granted a tank of helium under high pressure could rupture spectacularly like a popped balloon.

However cold helium meeting cold liquid oxygen LOX is not hypergolic. So what was the very sudden and spectacular fire ball at the top of the rocket?

LOX mixed with fuel creates highly energetic fires, which is why we use it in rocket engines and otherwise try to keep it constrained. Liquid oxygen and helium don’t burn or turn into hot plasma by themselves. The LOX would need to combine with fuel and have a source of ignition. However what fuel and what ignition source in this case? They left that part out of the report.

There are lots of available methods for accidentally blowing up rockets. Granted if you spill a whole bunch of LOX around, it will come in contact with something to burn and something to light it off. That's what happened to the Russian Soyuz T-10a. But all of a sudden in a massive fire ball at the relatively isolated upper end of the rocket?? The timing and location of the initial massive explosion is challenging to explain. That's why the initial comments that it seems strange.

I wonder about someone's suggestion that the pressurized helium container constrained in the LOX tank could explode due to the Hohlraum effect while undergoing bombardment from a high intensity x-ray laser. That's just the sort of thing they were trying to research for SDI.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 5, 2017 - 02:19am PT
I thought they were pretty clear about what they thought the ignition source was and you are correct in that no helium was involved as it was still constrained within the tank liner. The ignition was a result of the oxygen solidifying between the liner's exterior wall and the overlaid carbon fiber windings; the expansion of the oxygen pockets produced friction-generated heat between the carbon fiber filaments sufficient to cause ignition. As for 'fuel' for the resulting burn I would say the carbon itself in combination with the CF resins would act as that source. Carbon - even diamonds - will burn just fine in the presence of abundant oxygen. As for the x-ray laser theory, we've covered the sourcing of that already and it's highly unlikely you could focus the beam on an internal component at a distance sufficient to cause ignition without leaving evidence of the heating in other components of the rocket.

NASA: After the [composites] compatibility assessment was performed, a concern became apparent that frictional heating  could  occur in  the LOX  tanks.
...
Because the test results confirmed that frictional ignition and burning could occur in either a LOX or GOX environment, more testing should be done.
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 5, 2017 - 07:58am PT
Interesting stuff...haven't really been following this but have spent a gob of time at CCAFS on/near LC-40 where this explosion occurred. Worked the Titan IV program for 18 years...(we were pretty successful off the pad!).

That chatter about sabotage is interesting. I went shooting with a security guard outside Titusville in the swamp at around midnight on one business trip (yeah, weirdly random response to a gun ad in a local paper). He had some interesting stories and theories about some of the flight failures...
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jan 5, 2017 - 11:03pm PT
Yes, carbon is a fine fuel source. Mile long train loads of coal pass through my area daily. And it doesn't take much to produce spectacular results. Look at a carbon arc light for example.

So I don't think composite wrapping is a good idea in a LOX tank, for several reasons. That was not in the plan when I was reviewing SpaceX technical material at NASA JSC C3PO/COTS.

If I still worked in the NASA ARC CFD group, I'd ask someone to calculate the fuel fraction required in a simple chemical reaction producing the initial fireball volume visible in the videos. Intuitively it looks pretty strange.

SpaceX has probably duplicated this part of the event at their test facility in McGregor Texas; and I have tremendous respect for their engineers. Still really wondering about this explanation, but haven't seen their test data. And also understanding the incentive to present acceptable solutions and quickly resume flight status.

Replacing those composite tanks with alternative designs could be an expensive proposition. However they probably already had fall-back hardware options at their big hangers in Hawthorne, California.

Still wondering about both available fuel mass from the composite overwraps vs the size and composition of the fireball; and also the mechanism of friction ignition in a cryogenic tank.

The explosion that blew up the LOX tank in Apollo 13 was ignited by a design error that doubled the supply voltage and overheated internal wiring. And the fuel for the explosion was just the insulation for the wiring of the cryogenic stir mechanism. But that was a much smaller LOX tank and a much smaller explosion. I spent the better part of a week with Apollo 13 EECOM controller Sy Leibergot as my house guest reviewing that one.

Space flight systems are frequently very non-intuitive in strange ways. Light on an event can often be disclosed years later. I think this one will be examined for a long time.


healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 5, 2017 - 11:47pm PT
I think and they speculated that a carbon filament snapping as a result the expansion of the LOX going solid in a pocket against the COPV liner could have provided the necessary frictional heating given its close proximity to other carbon filaments within the fiber matrix.

As to the adequacy of the fuel, once the LOX tank blew the RP-1 tank immediately below it would have followed suit within a second or so and if you look at a photo of the explosion you can see what I'm pretty sure is the heavier RP-1 joining the fray and streaming in large rivulets out the bottom / bottom right of the initial fireball engulfing the first stage.






Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Jan 6, 2017 - 09:48am PT
I've recently been involved in an online discussion/argument on a spacenews.com thread, and my contention that the carbon fiber overwrap is a terrible idea was pooh-poohed by several other posters. I contended there's a major material incompatibility of carbon fibers (high surface area relative to mass) and LOX. The strength of carbon fiber is indisputable, but the idea of suspending exposed FUEL in an OXIDIZER is ludicrous. There should be several layers of a PTFE inert polymer as a multiple layer overwrap, enough to prevent direct Carbon-Oxygen contact.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 6, 2017 - 12:22pm PT
The strength of carbon fiber is indisputable, but the idea of suspending exposed FUEL in an OXIDIZER is ludicrous. There should be several layers of a PTFE inert polymer as a multiple layer overwrap, enough to prevent direct Carbon-Oxygen contact.

I would tend to agree that it seems like a bad idea given carbon fiber wrapping by itself is so susceptible to LOX infiltration. You'd think they could coat / seal / encapsulate it with something as it seems like type V COPVs, while dispensing with the inner liner, don't do anything about the carbon fiber overwrapping on the exterior.

I'm guessing the boys and girls at SpaceX probably have some strong opinions and ideas on next generation COPVs at this point. Would be curious to hear what they are.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 6, 2017 - 01:11pm PT
Think about it, Isreali satellite? Why is a US contractor allowed to indulge in the Starwars Space race in the first place? All they care about is money. It was a spy satellite that would have relayed all Isis social media to Isreal. Expanding the internet to Isis controlled parts of Africa is a bad idea. Soon, unregulated US space companies will set up a nuclear launchpad in space for North Korea if Kim pays them enough. Zuckerburg and Musk cannot and must not be trusted to deploy strategic technology period. This is the beginning of private sector tyrranny undermining and eventually circumventing democracy altogether. In my view, private companies cannot be trusted to represent US interests. They have a history of hurting us for profit and power. If Obama shot it down then its one good thing he did. Frankly I think the military shot it down without Obamas permission. No US private sector should meddle in Isreal or Isis politics. We ars at war there. If this launch was attempted in the seventies, Zuckerburg and Musk would be in Leavenworth for distribution of strategic defense technology to foreign powers. Let Isreal and Boko Haram build their own rockets and internet. We absolutely must stop helping them with their wars. As it stands we have been at war there for 25 years at a cost of about $1,000,000,000,000. When will it ever end. Zuckerburg swears that your privacy is safe but he puts tape on the cameras of his own laptop? Ask 2 billion facebook users if we should trust him and his liberal (fascist) agenda.....
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 6, 2017 - 01:30pm PT
Nutjobbery and, to be clear, the fascists are about to assume command.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
I thought this was a very good production. And pretty informative, too...
http://www.spacex.com/webcast


I thought bdc and some others might enjoy.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 11, 2017 - 07:00am PT
Laser weapons edge toward use in US military

Lockheed Martin has just announced a 60-kilowatt laser weapon that soon will be installed on an Army truck for operational testing against mortars and small drones. The weapon can take out a drone from a distance of about 500 yards (457 meters) by keeping its beam locked onto the target for a few seconds, Jim Murdoch, an international business development director at Lockheed, told reporters this week.

i.e. worthless.

But before laser technology can be integrated into combat planes, it must first be shrunk in size. Currently engineers are running into physical limitations on how much portable power can be produced and ways of cooling the technology.

i.e. ain't going to happen anytime soon.
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