Discussion Topic |
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altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 31, 2016 - 08:34am PT
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Hadn't seen this posted here yet - it's making its rounds on social media.
Details from the GoFundMe site:
Early on Sunday, August 21, Kyle Dempster and Scott Adamson started up the North Face of the Ogre 2, just off the Choktoi Glacier in northern Pakistan. They planned on five days for the climb and descent. .On Monday evening, their Pakistani cook, Ghafoor Abdul, spotted their headlamps roughly halfway up the peak. The weather remained good until Tuesday afteroon (8/23/16), when a storm moved in. Snowfall and cloudy conditions have persisted in the region since then.
Kyle and Scott have not been seen since Monday, August 22, no surprise given the complexity and scale of the terrain and the vagaries of the weather. On Sunday, August 28, family and friends initiated a search and rescue effort, assisted by local authorities and another climbing team on the Choktoi.
Please help these boys. Death is eminent if we cannot help. With the initiation of the Search and Resuce we have also been required to transfer money for the helicopter rescue and porters on foot in search of Scott and Kyle. With the unreliable weather we are needing more money everyday. Please consider the urgency of this situation and how thankful we are for your help.
Help spread the word!
GoFundMe link: https://www.gofundme.com/2mjv38k
Secondary call to action if you can help more specifically: if you have contacts and/or resources that may be helpful, please contact Jonathan Thesenga, Jonathan.Thesenga@bdel.com.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:45am PT
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Just posted it up on the home page of mountain project dot com.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:49am PT
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Ugh, what a rough place to be missing, and that's a long time.
My thoughts are with the families, friends, and rescuers, who will now be taking risks of their own.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:52am PT
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hey there say, altieboo... oh my... :O
thanks for the information, so folks can pray, and
know what is going on, with the friends and family...
prayers that all goes well...
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Aug 31, 2016 - 09:05am PT
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I went to one of Kyle's slide shows. Seems like an ok guy. Hoping for the best for he, and Scott.
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altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2016 - 09:19am PT
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Just heard from Nathan Smith over at Liberty Mtn. that the Latok 1 crew (Donini, Lowe, Englebach, Huber's) are helping to coordinate the search from base camp.
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Gilroy
Social climber
Bolderado
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Aug 31, 2016 - 09:54am PT
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Thanks for keeping us posted, ALton. Hope this turns out well.
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:00am PT
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Serious men in a serious place. Best of luck and strength to all involved.
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altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2016 - 10:13am PT
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No prob Gilroy - Not that I have any breaking info, just reposting what I'm seeing online and such.
According to the GFM page, there is a team of High Altitude Porters on their way to the other side of Ogre 2 where a possible secondary descent route may have been taken. They said its currently night there and they are hoping for an update in the morning.
Sounds like the weather hasn't let up and has held another team back from moving up the standard descent route. Helicopters have yet to be cleared for flight.
Again, this is all secondhand, I have no insider info. Just relaying it onto here.
These dudes are effing tough and Scott's personal mantra is NWS or, No Weak Sh#t, So, if there is anyone that could be sitting in a snow cave laughing hysterically about their situation it would be these two.
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Matt's
climber
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:45am PT
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bump
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Aug 31, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
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Bump. Cmon supertopians buck up some$$ to help these folks
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Grippa
Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 31, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
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Donation bump. Nearing the goal quickly. Anything helps!
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Aug 31, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
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What makes you sure they want folks begging for donations online to fund their rescue?
I would not want that if I were in their situation.
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yosguns
climber
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Aug 31, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
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pud, that is a good point, but even if you didn't want the donations yourself and you were prepared to accept the consequences of bad weather or an accident in the mountains, you might reconsider when you realized how the donations could help your friends and family, especially if they were impoverishing themselves carrying out a SAR effort. My donation was just as much for the benefit of the loved ones as for Scott and Kyle. I would want the community to do the same for my loved ones if I were in a similar situation.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Aug 31, 2016 - 02:52pm PT
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Yosguns,
I personally would accept the consequences but, as you eloquently point out, I would want my loved ones to feel that everything possible was done to help.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Aug 31, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
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Crazy to see this. Bump for donations.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Aug 31, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
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combined those two are a formidable team, i have man-crushes on both of them.
the amount raised will go a long way towards both of them and the swarm of locals and westerners rolling out the action. theres quite a few lives on the line as HAPs, heli crews and others get involved, some from communities well known for giving their lives for such causes.
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Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
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Aug 31, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
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What sort of high altitude rescue services actually exist in Pakistan? Is a 100k purchasing a couple fly bys? Or does extraction capability actually exist? I hope these two guys really are just weathering a storm and will be able to retreat when conditions improve because it's hard to imagine anything truly useful could be done on their behalf. Insight anyone?
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Aug 31, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
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in that area theres a huge military presence (war in kashmir) so bases all up the baltoro and heli access to surrounding glaciers.
helis come from the army, with an agreement for expeditions to use. they regularly do evacuations, but on mountain actual rescue alps/nepal style is much less doable.
for humans, the community of HAPs (high altitude porters) is well established, with many coming from Hunza as well as the Baltis.
re foreign potential, its peak season so there will be numerous serous climbers around lending a hand, as usually happens, coming down from camps for other peaks. this will include sherpas, and at this time people like Moro, Zangrelli etc may be out there who have real experience with this.
in a way this is not uncommon, and out there not special. every season usually has this sort of thing, and the process is established. the govt takes it quite seriously.
weather of course is the defining element and helis wont go and things will slow on the glacier (its still a week on foot from the nearest road - a terrible road too). but in the past theres been remarkable acts of heroism by all those groups to get people down.
edit: you also have groups like Global Rescue who do regular evacs from out there, providing an international interface.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 31, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
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^^^^^ Yes, they DO NOT do 'rescues'. They bring you home, one way or another.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Aug 31, 2016 - 05:03pm PT
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agreed. in a place like the south side karakorum, they can provide a link up of services between the point of evac and home, with medical staff all along the way. rather than patching together military, civilian and local services yourself.
but yes, no actual on-mountain rescue services (or other rescue services either).
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 31, 2016 - 05:10pm PT
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Positive thoughts!
Come on KD!
Scott rocks the best moustache of any climber I've seen. Hopefully not tickling Kyle's neck too much when they're spooning.
Glad J Do and co are on scene.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 31, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
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hey there say... just stopped by to see how things are going as to
if they are okay...
or, if folks are trying to find a way
to get them?? etc...
prayers...
say, i did just see a funding site for to help them...
climbers sure do care for their own, i have seen,
so many times...
other folks, out there have a harder time, though,
also, some folks don't know many folks that have
resources to help...
every little bit, means a lot, for those in bad straights, though...
prayers, that things work out, somehow...
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couchmaster
climber
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Aug 31, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
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Wow, Was $25,000 a few hours earlier today. Wow.
"$116,620 of $150k goal
Raised by 2,596 people in 19 hours
Hope this can be pulled off in the end before time ticks down.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
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Go Find Me?
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
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Wow, 100k+ for 3 days overdue? What is it that makes everyone think they need a rescue? An extra 72 hours out, or was there a radio call for help? Climbers sit through weather without eating all the time. Hopefully they are waiting for a window to finish navigating the descent. I've met them both, they seem like folks that can handle a few extra days out. Accidents, injuries notwithstanding, I'd like to think they are being calm and patient somewhere on the descent. Best of luck dudes.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:27pm PT
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"They are at this point 5 days overdue."
on a climb that was only planned for five days...
that said, here's hoping those dudes stroll out from the bottom of those storm clouds and this was all for naught.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:31pm PT
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big juju-power to them both to get through this
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:33pm PT
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hey there say, F...
as to this qoute:
Climbers sit through weather without eating all the time. Hopefully they are waiting for a window to finish navigating the descent. I've met them both, they seem like folks that can handle a few extra days out. Accidents, injuries notwithstanding, I'd like to think they are being calm and patient somewhere on the descent. Best of luck dudes.
AS TO your hopes, and observations:
yep, me too... i've heard so many tough-but-made-it-stories,
whewww...
i sure hope all is well:
these are the kind i things i think and hope, too...
though i have not met them...
i am only learning about all these things and do not know much,
so i am never sure, what a real rescue means, yet...
just trusting that something must be going on,
but sure do not really understand what... oh my...
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:35pm PT
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Yeah, got it. I just read the rescue was initiated on the 28th. I didn't even realize today was the 31st. Fuel/water at that altitude 5 days extra out is gnar.
I hope it works out. Too often the mountains repossess those that explore them at their limits.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:37pm PT
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hey there say, F ...
wow, say, just saw this too,
that you just shared for folks:
Yeah, got it. I just read the rescue was initiated on the 28th. I didn't even realize today was the 31st. Fuel/water at that altitude 5 days extra out is gnar.
I hope it works out. Too often the mountains repossess those that explore them at their limits.
sadly, i have read those stories, here, too, :(
prayers for them, and all involved, oh my... :(
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yosguns
climber
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Aug 31, 2016 - 10:41pm PT
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Big prayers going out from over here, too, neebee. <3
Jeez, I hate this stuff. I've been listening to the Graham Nash song, "Better Days," a lot recently. It stuck with me after I watched "Into the Mind." The lyric that gets me: "Went to a strange land searching for a truth you felt was wrong; that's when the heartaches started: though you're where you want to be, you're not where you belong."
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Sending positive energy for a rescue and all involved. I hope you guys are bivied in and will be hiking out soon.
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
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We all are Sincerely hoping for the best.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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^^^^
Oh look, the ignoramus of Supertopo had to chime in with a super awesome 2/10. Nothing to do with good wishes or a helpful word, just trying to polish up that self esteem on a thread full of concern for missing climbers in the high mountains.
Your daughter would be proud.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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From Google Earth - seems Donini + Co are not far away...
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Don't know Scott, but met Kyle several times over the years. Outstanding dude and adventurer! Wishing for the best outcome. I've been here, in this chair, hoping against hope before. This time I HOPE it pays off positively.
All the best to family and friends of both guys. They need our best right now. Consider contributing...[https://www.gofundme.com/2mjv38k
TY
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F
climber
away from the ground
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I don't feel like this thread is the appropriate place for anyone to practice their one-upmanship or insults. If you do Burchy, keep it up and stay classy.
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Ghost Bear
Social climber
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Can we get an update on the situation up there? Savannah Cummins writes on the GoFundMe page that this is an "URGENT RESCUE" - are they up there with a satellite phone or sending SOS messages with their headlamps? The only info provided is that they haven't been heard from since the day after they set off which was 11 days ago.
Here's to hoping they stroll out of there under their own power wondering what all the fuss is about. Hopefully GoFundMe will refund the $13,000+ in fees they've thus far skimmed off the top of the donations and we can redirect that funding to Erik Sloan so he can finish retro bolting the Nose.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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^^^^^Here's to hoping that'd be the situation.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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weathers lookin as good as it will get for the next 4 days or so. may free up things for those going to help out, or if they can get themselves down.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Here's the latest update from the GoFundme site, https://www.gofundme.com/2mjv38k
Thursday, September 1, 2016
Salt Lake City, Utah
The search for Kyle Dempster and Scott Adamson is ongoing. This update for Thursday, September 1st is provided in order to keep everyone informed of the efforts being made to locate Kyle and Scott. All dates and times noted are Pakistan Standard Time.
Snow and low clouds at Ogre II again kept the aerial search team grounded in Skardu. In addition to the Global Rescue helicopter, we are very grateful to have the Pakistani military now supporting the effort—they have helicopters at the ready in Skardu.
Current weather forecasts for the Ogre II area show the potential for a change in pressure and possible weather clearing within the next 24-48 hours. The Pakistani military helicopters are prepared to get in the air as soon as a usable window of good weather occurs.
The porters that have trekked up the Biafo Glacier from Askole to the backside of Ogre II should be in position to begin a visual inspection with binoculars by Friday, September 2.
Kyle and Scott’s rescue insurance will only cover a fraction (under $10,000) of the rapidly-escalating costs. We have already paid significant deposits for the helicopter and for porters to search on foot for Scott and Kyle. That is why a GoFundMe page ( https://www.gofundme.com/2mjv38k); has been established, which continues to see contributions from the global climbing family.
The friends and family of Kyle and Scott wish to deeply and sincerely thank everyone for their concerns, contributions, and continued hope for Kyle and Scott.
That is the update for Thursday, September 1st. The search effort is ongoing and we will continue to provide daily updates. We again ask that everyone please provide privacy to Kyle and Scott’s families, and direct any questions or media inquires to Jonathan Thesenga at jonathan.thesenga@bdel.com.
Help spread the word! |
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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The original text has been modified as well, including a note that they plan to return excess contributions, for those interested in such a plausibility...
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kbryan
Social climber
Houston TX
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Very worrisome. Would they have carried any communication equipment at all with them on their ascent?
Hoping for a good outcome.
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kbryan
Sport climber
Houston TX
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Thank you, Robert. That paints a good picture of what they probably began their climb with. Do climbers ever wear small radio transmitters (kind of like a "black box" for a person)? Or do they even make those, and if they did, would they work in that area?
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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The go fund me "goal" just keeps climbing as donations pour in.
"$167,030 of $250k goal"
All this in an attempt to rescue adventurers from their adventure.
Very strange.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Bump for
The go fund me "goal" just keeps climbing as donations pour in
It only takes a couple minutes, and I'm slow.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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As JLP pointed out from the GoFundMe website:
"Be assured that any funds in excess of actual search and rescue costs will be returned to donors."
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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I hope Scott and Kyle make it out okay, whether under their own power or with the help of rescuers. And I hope that those involved in rescue efforts stay safe as well.
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Burt
Social climber
Angelus Oaks, Ca
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I am sure that any of the donors could give a rats ass if money is returned or where or how it is spent. The money was given to a couple of awesome guys pushing the limits of our wonderful sport. We are now in the days where we have a fighting chance at helping. There is no honor in dying if there is a chance we all could help. Lets keep our hopes high that a miracle is going to take place and these guys get out of there with a f*#king rad story of survival and they get to go home to their families and warm beds. Stay strong guys and keep fighting.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Burt, I feel I know a bit of what's in your heart, and for the climbers on the knife edge, I pray as hard as any.
For those who grew up not seeing any shame in begging, it comes easily, and is rewarded.
For those of us who ventured forth, and can not ever figure out how to beg.
We die alone, crippled, in heeps of debt....
All light and love and vibes of good energy, sent to the cold environs there in Pakistan.
We are all praying for the safe return of all and of course all alive and as well as can be.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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HopIng And praying for the best outcome.
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kbryan
Sport climber
Houston TX
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Anyone heard any recent reports on how the search is going?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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thinking about these dudes a lot today. they've got the fortitude!
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labrat
Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
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Thinking good thoughts. Hope they are ok.
The only place I've been going for updates is the gofundme page. There is a latest update link at the bottom.
http://www.gofundme.com/2mjv38k
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snagglepuss
Mountain climber
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I'm of the generation of Gnome. My folks would have mortgaged the house and taken on a lifetime of debt. The thought of open world-wide begging would have never entered their minds. No way, no how! Personal pride and personal responsibility. Simple stuff.
But you can't argue with results. This is the new way of financing things you can't afford. Maybe more folks will join the American Alpine Club for the rescue insurance after this.
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dhayan
climber
culver city, ca
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Here is the latest update (taken from MP):
Friday, September 2, 2016
Salt Lake City, Utah
The search for Kyle Dempster and Scott Adamson is ongoing. This update for Friday, September 2nd and is provided in order to keep everyone informed of the efforts being made to locate Kyle and Scott.
NOTE: all dates and times referenced are for Pakistan Standard Time.
There is a confirmed weather window opening up as early as tomorrow morning. This is the first break in weather in 10 days, since Kyle and Scott were last seen. We have been in communication with the Pakistan military and they assure us that two Pakistani military helicopters will be starting the search tomorrow morning. A Global Rescue helicopter will also be on hand. We owe a huge amount of gratitude to the Pakistan government for scrambling all of their available assets and their commitment to finding Scott and Kyle. Their support, and that of Global Rescue, has been invaluable. Additionally Kyle and Scott’s families are deeply grateful for the assistance provided by the Pakistan Embassy in Switzerland. It’s important to note that without the help of the Pakistani military, Global Rescue, and the Pakistan Embassy in Switzerland, we would not be so well equipped to take advantage of this upcoming, and crucial, weather window.
That is the update for Friday, September 2st. The next 24 hours will be crucial, and we again ask that everyone please provide privacy to Kyle and Scott’s families. Any questions or media inquires should be directed to Jonathan Thesenga at jonathan.thesenga@bdel.com.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Helis about to leave skardu apparently.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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People involved.
Note helis would probably leave skardu everyday at this time for ine reason or another b
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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I hope these men defy the odds and walk out.
It's a shame the US government didn't show the same support that Pakistan is currently showing, when Nott and McNeill disappeared on Foraker.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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^^^
The Parks Service spent a lot of time in the air looking for those ladies on Foraker. A lot. Certainly more airtime by far than has been spent looking for Kyle and Scott.
They didn't charge for it either.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Their 2015 climb (1) and descent (2), from 2016 AAJ link above.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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The Parks Service spent a lot of time in the air looking for those ladies on Foraker. A lot. Certainly more airtime by far than has been spent looking for Kyle and Scott.
They didn't charge for it either.
I don't recall hearing anything about the military being involved.
Knott/McNeill were missing for a longer period than Dempster/Adamson, thus more "airtime".
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Choktais not far from the line of control with india. EVERYTHING there is military overseen. They have liasion officers and go thru checkpoints etc. a very different scenario and not always better.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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What do you propose pud? U.S. divert UAV's to Pakistani airspace with the presiding goverment's permission? Rent Ueli on EPO? Remove the cloud-system with non-declared technology?
Americans risked their lives and went climbing in a somewhat hostile environment.
Ask the PakiStainis to do what they can. How close is this to the LoC in Kashmir?
The base of that rig looks like a horrendous avalanche risk. Gnarly looking climb, but great stuff above!!!
I said a prayer for the boys, but they signed up for this. This is what 'pushing limits' is all about, right? Risks. Hardship.
I wish them luck and Godspeed. Hang tough, push through.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Depends which control line you pick. Its cliser to the disputed aksai qin lne with china, about 40km. From the indian lines its maybe 80km. About 65km from the exclusion zone. Totally within the disputed area but under Pakistani control, well within the controlled space.
Foreign aircraft in Pakistans airspace up there would be a major international event. Wouldnt happen for a few climbers. Consider last time it happened...
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drroc
Trad climber
tn
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Scott will conquer this. He is tough as nails and most likely has built a nice shelter on that face. the route I see in the photo above shows opportunities (some big chimneys full of snow and some nice snowy banks to dig into). Rescuers need to hurry with food and water and bring a climbing team up behind via helicopter and rappel onto the face to climb to them.
I'm sure they are in bivy sacks in a snow cave hunkered down. Don't rely on standard rescue procedures. Too slow to make this work out with a positive outcome.A strong team of alpinists is needed to make this rescue a success-hope they have that support on the way.
They would have to be too weak due to calorie deprivation to crawl out of a bivy sack at this stage of the event and need someone to climb to them and hook them up to a line for heli-rescue. Please team get them home to their families and friends. Be brave for two good souls.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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This time of year there could well be BP - K2 climvers about, between ascents. Even climbers who came from Nepal seasons. Possible Moro Et al about stocking for winter. Not to mention the Haps who may have been high on 2 peaks already.
Zangrillis 2009 rescue on Latok was along those lines, sprinting down from K2 if i recall the story.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Damn. A slim season that end of the spectrum...
Cheers for the roll call, tho a bit depressing.
Where are all the hi alt speed freaks when you need one?
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kbryan
Sport climber
Houston TX
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Glad to see a good weather window -
url="http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Baintha-Brakk/forecasts/7285"]http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Baintha-Brakk/forecasts/7285[/url].
The instinct for survival is strong. Here is a link to Scott and Bonington's Ogre climb that Robert mentioned earlier - http://www.markhorrell.com/blog/2013/touching-doug-scotts-void/.
Could a drone be useful for searching in this situation?
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Robert L wrote:
Edit: What do you propose pud? Historically opportunistic U.S. military divert UAV's to Pakistani airspace with the presiding goverment's permission? Rent Ueli and hypo-chamber him with a cocktail of Epo, Procardia and Decadron, onto a glacier landing plane - with standby Agusta with longline HIGEing off 60deg ice cliffs? Remove the cloud-system with non-declared technology? Or do you propose the US gummn't do more, or less?
I was referring to the lack of military support in the search for Nott/McNeill in '06.
The US military has no jurisdiction in the current situation, unlike the former.
What is Black Diamond doing to support the effort other than having Jonathan Thesenga organize the gofundme donation disbursement?
Those that profit from such exploits should carry some responsibility when things go wrong, imho.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Could a drone be useful for searching in this situation?
What's the altitude and size of that face? If there's a base camp (to launch from) and how far away from the route?
With that type of weather a big multi-rotor would probably prove useful. Density altitude would be a pretty substantial limiting factor (flight time). But even a small phantom could fly a vertical pattern of two or three thousand feet (filming) in a few minutes.
seems to me their biggest concern is fuel to make water. drone delivery of stove fuel.
wouldn't surprise me if one is being used
really glad to see this weather window
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kbryan
Sport climber
TX
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Could a drone be useful for searching in this situation?
Good questions. I know very little about drones and their fuel, distance, weight, altitude, etc. limitations. And I don't know if the distance from launch destination to probable climber location is very great.
Seems like they could be very helpful for search and rescue if the logistics could be worked out.
Can't help but wonder what is going on right now, this very minute.
Given the conditions of the last few days, if a climber was healthy, would they have been able to make a descent? Or has the weather been so bad as to have made it impossible?
Update from Associated Press
The Associated Press
SALT LAKE CITY
A Pakistani military search team has yet to locate a pair of well-known Utah climbers who went missing on an icy mountain peak.
Global Rescue Operations spokeswoman Ann Shannon says a military helicopter conducted flights over the likely locations of the climbers Saturday morning.
A second helicopter was deployed after the first one had to refuel.
The aircraft were launched from Skardu and have been conducting searches at altitudes of up to 22,000 feet.
It is the first time the weather has cleared enough for helicopters to look for Kyle Dempster and Scott Adamson.
A rescue effort was launched last Sunday near northern Pakistan's Choktoi Glacier after the men failed to return Aug. 26 to base camp.
They had been attempting to climb the north face of a 23,901-foot mountain.
Read more here: http://www.islandpacket.com/news/nation-world/national/article99794257.html#storylink=cpy
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drroc
Trad climber
tn
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Drone is the best idea ive seen. A u.s. military drone probably nearby. Surely we can take a break from military exercises to save our two warriors.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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"drone" is an ambiguous word and for an operation like this - a bit more description is needed.
The military in the area most likely would have a fixed-wing drone (think airplane). Above I stated a multi-rotor (think helicopter) would be the best bet. The problem with a fixed-wing is it always has to be moving. A multi-rotor can hover. A multi-rotor could also do a straight vertical ascent/descent.
If manned choppers or fixed-wings can fly at the altitude so too can a drone of either type. The biggest issue would be a decreased flight time - the limitation is the batteries. A high density altitude (less air) means less efficient props. Also the cold can kill a battery (external heaters almost a must).
I fly a 800mm hex that's equipped with an IR camera. I can milk about 35 minutes of flight time out of it. Given the light winds in the forecast and clear conditions that could prove a very useful tool. I used it to search for a lost dog a few weeks back. Our area we covered was yuuuge and we netted no positive results. But with these guys we should pretty much know where they are. Only problem with the IR is it would need to be flown at night to reduce/eliminate IR pollution from the sun.
I get about 23 minutes of flight time on a DJI Phantom at 8000' density altitude. The range can be up to five miles with a digital video link to the base station. Top speed is 47 mph so it can cover some ground quickly. Crystal clear video on an iPad Pro in realtime - you'd see them if they are in any sort of sight from 500' away (or more). Also records in 4K/30.
another use would be delivery - fuel for their stove and a radio. Crash the drone into a snowback next to them if you have to. It would have done it's job. though any good multi-rotor operator could land it pretty easily w/o visual.
This is from a range test at Vedauwoo. I was about a half mile out and wanted to check out this little dome.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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drroc
Trad climber
tn
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Nature. You know your drones you should contact a military base and talk with them. That could be their only chance given the circumstances. I really dont see how a helicopter is going to help on a vertical face this steep unless they lower proficient ice climbers that can spot their shelter
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, all...
was just hoping for some good news...
still praying, with you all...
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altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
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Posted today by Nathan Smith:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ6K0NpBQ1G/?taken-by=pullphoto
"What matters most are the brothers and the sisters you choose to walk with-and to laugh with-through the fire." Kyle Dempster
Saturday, September 3, 2016
Salt Lake City, Utah
This update is for Saturday, September 3rd and is provided in order to keep everyone informed of the efforts being made to locate Kyle Dempster and Scott Adamson. NOTE: All dates and times referenced are for Pakistan Standard Time.
Early on Saturday, September 3rd, two Pakistani military helicopters left Skardu in clear weather. They landed at basecamp on the Choktoi Glacier and picked up climber Thomas Huber (Austria) who would assist as an observer/spotter. An exhaustive and close-proximity initial search of the north face of the Ogre 2 (where Kyle and Scott were last seen on August 22), the northeast ridge (their planned descent route), and the glacial basin between the Ogre 2 and Ogre 1, yielded no sign of the pair. After refueling, the two helicopters made a second sweep of all sides of the mountain, from an even higher altitude, and again found no sign of Kyle and Scott. In light of those extensive yet unsuccessful efforts, the search team and knowledgeable observers in Pakistan, the US, and Europe, assessed that there remained a very slim chance that any evidence of their passage would be revealed in subsequent sweeps of the mountain.
Given the time that has elapsed and the nearly continuous stormy weather since they were last seen, and the substantial risks that such high-altitude missions entail, Kyle and Scott’s families have made the extremely difficult decision to end the search efforts.
We owe a huge amount of gratitude to the Pakistan government for scrambling all of their available assets and their commitment to finding Scott and Kyle. Their support, and that of Global Rescue, has been invaluable. Additionally Kyle and Scott’s families are deeply grateful for the assistance provided by the Pakistan Embassy in Switzerland the US Embassy in Pakistan, and numerous other individuals and organizations worldwide. We will acknowledge and thank each of them publicly and privately in the coming days.
That is the update for Saturday, September 3rd. We again ask that everyone please provide privacy to Kyle and Scott’s families. Any questions or media inquires should be directed to Jonathan Thesenga at jonathan.thesenga@bdel.com.
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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Sad news.
Still hoping for a modern miracle on the scale of Touching the Void.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Very sad to see this latest news.
My condolences to their families and friends.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Good effort on the helicopter search.
Sad about the result.
I saw Kyle Dempster's slide show at Stanford in January 2013, which I enjoyed very much.
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altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
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Rollover - Agreed!
I saw a post from Global Rescue that Miah Watt shared on Facebook stating that there is still a team of climbers planning to ascend Ogre 2 and try and locate any signs of anything. Not sure who, when, or what route.
SO, there is still hope, at the moment. But its slim.
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kbryan
Sport climber
TX
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I didn't think that the search would be called off, what a difficult decision to make. I do hope some climbers can do some reconnaissance without unduly endangering their own lives.
Nature, thank you for the drone lesson. I didn't realize drones had that much range, that's pretty impressive. Like organized search and rescue teams with dogs, I think it would be a good idea to create an organization to coordinate a network of drone search and rescue volunteers. Perhaps there already is one. If not, I vote that you, Nature, get that going.
What could have happened to them? Falling rock? A slip? Were they tethered together? Feeling sad for all those close to these two climbers. . .
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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I'm sorry and a bit surprised to hear that search efforts have been called off. I hope that the ground search is more successful.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say... oh my... :(
would there have also been a deeper reason:
i mean, could there have been signs of avalanche?
or--would this mean, that they could have been
SWEPT off a ledge :(
this is so very sad...
so many times, the miracle saves, do come through...
we can still, at least pray...
oh my... :(
very sad for the families, :(
edit:
if 'holed up somewhere'
would this possibly cause them to be 'unseen' ?
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drroc
Trad climber
tn
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Thomas Huber on the way up the route following Scott's photo with route marked. Huber will be his only hope in my opinion unless Scott and Kyle already downclimbed and are in a crevasse somewhere between basecamp and the climb. Maybe dog team could assist locating if they are in a crevasse. Strange no gear located. If they were on the north face it would seem logical that there would be some signs of gear unless an avalanche came through or they are hunkered in a snow shelter too weak to wave for help due to calorie deprivation. Hoping for a miracle here and these guys capable of that and hoping the rescue team doesn't give up hope either.
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altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
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Have there been any official reports of avy activity? No one has mentioned it so far.
Also, it was stated that their cook saw their headlamps before the storm. Is it known roughly where on the mountain they were? I know that could be hard to say, but in general terms I guess. Low, part way, higher up?
Sending out as much positive vibes as possible for all involved! Go TH!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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From your opening post on this thread:
On Monday evening, their Pakistani cook, Ghafoor Abdul, spotted their headlamps roughly halfway up the peak.
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kbryan
Sport climber
TX
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DrRoc, thanks for the update.
I wonder if a review of satellite images would reveal anything.
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drroc
Trad climber
tn
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I am starting to think that these guys could have gone for a different route than what is on their route topo/photo. Maybe searchers looking in wrong location. They could have gone more left of their planned route ans that is why noone seeing signs of them. Or they made it to ground and went into a crevasse because of snow cover.
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altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
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Yikes, thanks, Clint. I should have refreshed myself with everything.
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Decko
Trad climber
Colorado
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It's always nice to have hope and I always remember this:
Art Davidson said it best in his book minus 148 degrees when they were all but lost of hope in an ice cave on the first winter ascent of Denali starving and freezing "never give up and keep trying"
They chopped thru ice in an area they thought there was and old stash of food from a previous expedition and what do you know they found it.
The seriousness and commitment levels of the peeps that go on these journeys and most of us have been there felt it, you give it your all no matter what
but sometimes the element are too much for the small human to endure...
Even when your at the top of your game a huge mountain with huge consequences can win out......
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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^^^^
tfpu.
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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My heart goes out to Kyle and Scott's families, friends, and loved ones. The waiting and not knowing has got to be so terrible. Still hoping for a miracle, knowing they are tough, strong men.......
pam
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COT
climber
Door Number 3
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From Phil Powers FB
"Thanks for posting this JT. George (Lowe) was so sad when we spoke this morning. He had just flown around the whole mountain and saw no clues. He is a father, I am too, and we both felt this deeply. I can't imagine how hard this is for the families. I'm so sorry for this loss. I'm also thankful for the selfless efforts of many. Can't say more."
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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I'm hoping with you Tami.. So sad to think of more of our comrades leaving us too soon.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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It's an unforgiving sport in which we participate. So harsh, yet so simple. I believe it was Hemingway who said, there are only three real sports; motor racing, Bull fighting and mountain climbing. Everything else is just a game. The mountains are but a back drop against which we conquer nothing but our own fears. We provide the drama, mountains simply.... are. They don't care about you or me. And , yet we return again and again to rediscover ourselves and push our boundaries. Sometimes we push a bit too far and the consequences are the ultimate buy in. So it is with great respect and admiration for Kyle and Scott that I offer my deepest condolences to family and friends. Mark Twight once said there is nothing more beautiful than the conscious act of survival against great odds. I would like to believe this too, that they never gave up, but simply and beautifully gave in to the beauty and, faced with a certain fate, fought the good fight and ultimately floated away.
TY
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Well said, Yeary.
Our endeavors (climbers) have limits and consequences. Scott and Kyle went big. I still have hope for them.
We really need to ask ourselves how far we'll let people 'adventure' before we commit rescue resources, that are in danger themselves.
Is it an adventure if there's a drone next to you as you ascend? Or one that bails you out when you fail?
I pray for Scott and Kyle.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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these two knew the risks better than anyone on the planet. they certainly weren't banking on drones to save their bacon, even if that were feasible.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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ty TY.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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What a bummer.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Startling, sad and respectable outcome. These two were definers of the game, both providing vision and gall over an era when climbing became its most mundane. Both guys drew new ideas out of new places. Talented of course, but a bit beyond that as well.
I dont think its ill fitting to put them on the top shelf. That they were last seen on the Ogre is enough said.
Dying is one thing, dissappearing is another.
These things happen and they will again. Its the punctuation of the sport, that gives the pursuit its teeth, its history and its attitude.
An award or grant for humor and audacity in their name would be cool and is worth recognizing.
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mountain girl
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Beautifully said, TY. Somehow still hoping for a miracle.
Ingrid
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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There's something totally pulling me that this isn't over.
Beautiful sentiment Tony...makes me smile and weep together.
Susan
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Sad day for the world, family, friends, climbing community. I watched some videos and wept.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Springdale, UT
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It's so hard to accept that they're not coming back. Maybe it's the fact that they're still up there somewhere or that they were so well equipped to be there and come back even with harsh circumstances. I'm so sorry to see this. Still hoping the ground search turns up something.
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Wen
Trad climber
Bend, OR
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I don't know these men at all, but then I came across this video of Kyle dreaming so so big, and now I am heartbroken. Adventure was in his soul, and I'm sure Scott's as well being Kyle's partner in their biggest adventure. I'm sorry to not have known them; their family and friends are in my thoughts.
https://vimeo.com/69045994
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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The AAJ 2016 book came in the post yesterday. Without looking for anything in particular, just flipping through, I stopped on their report of last year's Ogre attempt. The voice telling their story of their attempt, which almost ended fatally due to a failed rappel anchor, is so now, so alive, that it is incomprehensible that they are gone.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Keeping all involved with thoughts of hope.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Brave souls indeed . . . pursuing their aspirations and dreams. We should all strive to be so free and alive in the moments life offers.
Pedal on brothers!
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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A spokesman for the Alpine club mentioned a possible avalanche:
Bad weather prevented an aerial search until Saturday, but the two helicopters found no sign of the men nor any camps, said Karrar Haidri, a spokesman for the Alpine Club.
“It seems that a big avalanche had occurred, as they were going very well till 23 August but then it snowed a lot for four, five days,” Haidri said on Sunday.
Though the lede of the article implies that signs of an avalanche were seen in the helicopter passes, the quotations from Haidri make it sound more like a hypothesis based on weather conditions. If there was indeed an avalanche, it's not clear whether that was the problem and whether Scott and Kyle would have been where it was.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/147771-Helicopter-search-suspended-for-missing-US-climbers-in-Pakistan
I realize things don't look good but hope for a miracle or at least for some answers. I also hope that Thomas Huber's team and any others doing ground searches stay safe.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Don't know you Robert L, but that is the most asinine post I've read in a long time.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Posted on the gofundme page.
"Azy Ali
1 day ago
Today i talked to the Guide of the expedition, Mr Ghafoor who was at the base camp, has just arrived back at Sakurdu after 4 days trek. He was worried, almost crying bcz he used to be Kyle's guide on his every visit to Pak. He told that weather was awesome when they started climbing and the next day there was dark everywhere with heavy snowfall, bad weather quite low visibility. He was expecting them to descend in this scenario but they continued until he saw them last time at the mid of the peak."
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nice, apropos, quotes by AB, Ruppell.
Many mountaineers see religion this way. And that's o.k....as long as they see "religion", that's good enough.
It is a divine pursuit. Let's not lose faith in our boys yet.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I didn't know Scott or Kyle, but they are recognizable, they are people in climbing that I know who go out to discover what they are capable of doing, testing themselves against the prospects of routes on incredible mountains far from the possibility of being rescued.
Whatever their fate, I have no doubt that they willingly anted up knowing the risk and its consequences. They believed they would succeed, but they planned for every contingency. We all plan knowing the limits of planning.
A certain amount of armchair mountaineering opinion is sure to make its way onto this thread, and with the variety of opinion, and the likelihood of tragic outcome, the differences of opinion can result in invective posts among the opinionated.
Not only do we not know what happened, it is likely we will never know, in detail. Best that the urge to decide on what is right and what is wrong be left to another time, and another thread. For those two it is irrelevant, for those who loved them it is not necessary to read what we, who sit half a world away, think.
The consequences of the risks we undertake in our pursuit of climbing are well know to us, and we marvel when climbers manage the mastery of the physical, the mental and the spiritual aspects of a particular climb, especially when the climbing pushes the boundary of the possible. We recognize without discussion how that boundary is defined. Not a one of us goes out to intentionally cross that boundary.
I would hope the STForum would honor these two by refraining from doing what is natural for us, to try to make sense of a situation, a situation for which we have very little information. Speculating on events can wait for some other time. Right now we can keep Scott and Kyle in our hearts and minds, and this thread can be the expression of the respect we have for fellow climbers who went out there and committed everything to a shared vision.
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IntheFog
climber
Mostly the next place
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Thanks TY & EH and the rest of the Supertopo poets for putting into words what the rest of us can't.
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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Ed.... you can take word for word what you said and take out the "climber" and put any high risk sport in it's place. Well said and wise.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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yes... deep appreciation to TY and EH for demonstrating the potential that this forum can rise to and for allowing all of us to be buoyed up in their wakes...
if this situation does prove, as it now must seem, to be without hope, may we respect the humanity of the many whose lives were incontrovertibly intertwined with these two men's and offer our collective support, regardless of our personal opinions of whether s + k are headed to valhalla or not.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Perhaps this helps a little: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhFx17s4a2E&feature=em-share_video_user
A lengthy and fascinating self-made video Kyle did three years ago in the Karakol; he is biking into the unknown at huge risk. Lots of Kyle explaining what is happening and how he feels. What a mensch!
Ham and Eggs posted a vimeo link of the same file over in another thread, btw.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Kyle was slated to be a student of mine at the writer's symposium we've been holding in Carbondlae, Co., for the last few years. But we only had ten slots and he was eleven so Duane, at Rock and Ice, told him, "Next year." Then a student fell out and Duane called Kyle back and said, "You're in." But Kyle had since made plans to go to Pakistan, so it'd have to be "next year" after all. Anyhow, Duane ended up giving the slot to a girl, call her Wendy, who was gifted the course by some anonymous patron.
Wendy was a mess: lifelong psychiatric challenges from crushing abuse issues, and so much social anxiety she could barely speak. I had to talk here into staying about ten times a day, but she hung tough, and doing so gave her a boundary experience, enabling her to get out of her in-patient facility and start living on her own. She's been sober for two years and was going to go "out" but called me and we got through it. Then she found a job - her first - working in a restaurant. Little money but she was flat broke and still is but is happy and has a place to stay. She started climbing two years ago and she claimed that saved her life. She showed a kind of numinous quality in class and could write the sh#t out whatever she tried, fearlessly pouring her soul onto the page.
Anyhow, these crisis situations (per the Ogre) are alter-state events that have a kind of gravity that pulls people together in strange, even wonderful ways. Like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle aligning into the contours of a community rarely seen or even perceived during lax times. The hope was that Kyle and Scott would once again be part of the puzzle, after the pieces settled. They weren't. They died up there, or so it seems. A bad deal all around.
But I was looking at a list of contributors on the YouFundIt site (for the rescue - 200 grand raised from nearly 5,000 people) and I saw that Wendy had donated 150 dollars. Of course she's broke, meaning she must have sighed over her entire check from the restaurant, hoping to help save people she had never met.
She could not save Kyle and Scott, but through her act of giving, I trust she was able to save herself, reclaiming those shards of her humanity shattered during the soul-murder of her early years. And in turn she took her rightful place, perhaps for the first time, on the jigsaw puzzle of life, taking the place of Kyle and Scott, lost to the storm in Pakistan.
Kyle was a soulful character who I can see now, peering down from the mountain at Wendy - finally back with the living - and him saying, "That's what I'm talking about."
Every loss is an opportunity for someone - hollow words to the near and dear of Kyle and Scott, but they didn't die for nothing. I know that for a fact because I know Wendy.
JL
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Plaidman
Trad climber
West Slope of Powell Butte, Portland, Oregon, USA
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Thx John.
Plaid
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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If I knew my dad, I think I'd be better off if he was a bit like you.
That's quite the nice complement towards EdH, who's only 29 I think?
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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John,
a great insight into how life works!
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Thank you John Long for those words of insight & wisdom. Heart & thoughts to those close to a pair of amazing people. Individuals who threw off the chains of a mundane & everyday life...
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Thank you John. My heart goes out to all who knew Scott and Kyle and my hope is that their legacy continues to sustain and give joy to their friends, family and the climbing tribe for many years to come.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Thanks, John. Actually made me mist up a bit...whew...
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jstan
climber
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We all can point to persons whose death has made our own personal world a little poorer. Charlie Porters passing is a case in point for myself. He was full of a very infectious form of life. Isn't this kind of loss relevant for each of us? But when each of us accepts a risk this potential loss to others too seldom comes into the equation.
Shouldn't it?
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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I have been waiting to post something, well because I do believe in miracles.
I have been waiting for the day when Scott and Kyle would emerge from a snow cave with a harrowing tale to tell all of us.
I guess that's not to be.
When I go off on my own puny adventures my wife knows why I do it and she knows that if I fail to return it is the path I choose. I did it my way.
Thanks to all who posted, many here can express what I feel but I am unable to put into words. Your words have helped me think deeply about life and death.
I wish to extend my sincere condolences to the lost climbers, their Families and many friends.
peace
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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"You write yourself off before a big climb."
Kim Momb
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Shouldn't it?
According to my omniscient calculations, sure, but according to the evolved psychological tendencies of evolution's ill-informed math, nah.
RIP fellas - we'll miss you.
Carry on, living folks.
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mountain girl
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Just beautiful, JL.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Ingrid
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Wen
Trad climber
Bend, OR
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Once again JL your writing both knocks me off my feet, and causes me to stop in my tracks to think anew. Thank you for being you and sharing your brain with us, Supertaco is a great place sometimes.
RIP to two awesome souls. Kyle's biking across Pakistan video is still with me days after I watched it. If you all haven't seen it, please seek it out, it is well worth your time to understand the spirit that guided Kyle toward his last adventure. I can only assume Scott was drawn to similar ideas, and in that way was just as inspirational as his buddy.
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Mur of Opotrepus
climber
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Sep 16, 2016 - 11:42pm PT
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In the internet age (weather reports etc) it seems very odd they would hang it out that far.
There must be a lot of pressure to summit from BD.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Sep 17, 2016 - 09:22am PT
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In the internet age (weather reports etc) it seems very odd they would hang it out that far.
There must be a lot of pressure to summit from BD.
What a ludicrous presumption.
You probably have little understanding of the motivations behind extreme alpine ascents.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Sep 17, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
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Thanks J.L. Thanks for being like a father to so many.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 18, 2016 - 08:07am PT
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There was another party queued for the peak, it would be interesting to know for which route...
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