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Skeeered
Big Wall climber
the otherside of the crack
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 30, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
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Space Shot,( Zion).
Any Advice, Suggestions or Tips for 2 n00bs
(other than: yer ….gunna …die)?
The plan:
We are planning to do our first big wall and we have narrowed it down to Space Shot in Zion. We know most parties can do the climb in a day (after fixing to p3), but we want to do this climb as an overnighter & haul up the ledge and a pig to get the full experience on the wall. We’ll be shooting for a midweek send so we piss off the least amount of other climbers as possible. We are aiming for Spring (April) of next year (2017) before it gets too hot.
About us:
Both of us have just started leading 5.7s(RedRock) on gear :/ but are solid on 5.9- easy .10’s sport. We both have some limited aid experience (some single pitch aid leads, bolt ladders, a lil bit of hooking, etc.) and have a pretty good understanding of the systems involved. As of right now we are planning on aiding up the route as much as possible. While we are still dialing in all of our systems this fall/winter, we have been mostly focused on getting faster at jugging, being more efficient at a 2:1 & body hauling, belay swap times and obviously trying to get stronger at our free climbing.
While we are aware of the more common beginner mistakes during a first big wall such as…
Not bringing enough water
Bringing way too much unneeded shit(food, clothes, entertainment, etc.) basically a pig that weights +200lb.
Taking way too long at every belay changeover (even though this isn’t a very tall wall by other big wall standards)
not having good communication (we'll have walkies)
bad jugging skills, and so on…
…we were wondering what other common mistakes noobs make? That we can try to avoid with your help & insight.
Also a few other questions:
1.Is there a better beginner route than this(we thought about MB, but don’t wanna be “THOSE GUYS”)?
2. We understand bailing from spaceshot is somewhat hard esp. off the leaning crack pitch, but if we had to make a retreat, what are the best pitches to do so from?
3. We have about a 80# difference with me being 135# or so and my partner being 215# anything specific we need to keep in mind relating to a bigwall besides the usual mechanics of belaying with a difference in weight class? We’ve been led to believe that ALL the pitches are bolted on spaceshot, is this correct? Therefore, we shouldn’t have to worry about setting up an upward directional with gear while belaying a heavier leader.
4. What would be a good pitch to set up a portaledge on, on spaceshot other than EO ledge
5. We are both currently reading Chris Mac’s book, reading /watching Mark Hudon’s stuff and lurking on ST and MP trying to garner as much info as possible. Anything else we should be looking into?
6. Reading about raptor closures for the Leaning Wall and Moonlight Buttress, we ‘re having a hard time confirming if Spaceshot gets closed for Raptors? because if so, early April trip would have to be rescheduled. On that note, is April a good time to go for an attempt? Our worry is that anytime after April will be too hot, & before than too cold?!?
and last but not least...
7. Are we getting in over our heads?!?
Thanks for reading , and for any help/advice that is offered….good or bad ;)
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Aug 30, 2016 - 04:09pm PT
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I would make sure you get good advice/current beta on the approach pitches. Although I'm not saying this is the "right" way, but I've seen people climb up the first approach pitches and then haul to there which didn't look like a good plan.
I thought it was easier to have a leader free climb the first couple approach "pitches" on belay and then the follower (me) wear the pig and scramble/aid up to the top of the approach using any and all methods (ascenders, rope pulling, and such)
To haul over all that choss seemed silly. But others might have good beta on that.
Chelsea and I got stuck behind Father Time and his older brother on it and it sucked so be sure you have clear climbing above you.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 30, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
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I'd say top priority is to do lots of multipitch free climbs,
so you get faster at placing and removing gear.
Leading 5.7 on gear is on the low side for people doing walls.
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Skeeered
Big Wall climber
the otherside of the crack
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
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E, I believe your right, I think you haul from the ground(a pedestal below the 5.10v) to the 3p.
Clint, no doubt our weakest point. I just started climbing 2 years ago, and on gear a year but I have yet to fall on one of my pieces(plenty of TR on anchors I built) so lil scared to do so, even though I know I should be fine. Ironically I have whipped on aid once already when trying hooking :D for the first time but I had a bolt below me sooo...doesn't really count. I know this is holding my climbing back. I should be much closer to my sport grades.
I have another question re: the difficulty,
ST topo says 5.9c2, but description says 5.6c2?
Then MP has it listed at 5.7c2?!?
Which is it?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 30, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
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Which is it?
Like it matters? The ST 5.9 is just 5.7 with sand on it.
Like Lauren Bacall told Bogey,
"You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve?
You just put your lips together and blow."
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Skeeered
Big Wall climber
the otherside of the crack
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
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Jeez cosmic . Hope, I don't sound that bad. I atleast know what rack(run whatcha brung) I'm taking and how to setup my ledge already.
Edit: thx Reilly, point taken......
looks at partner: yer lead ;)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Aug 30, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
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stand up tall in the stirrups. get up in the higher step if you find yourself going slow. Don't futz. As soon as you've set your good pieces, stand up in them. though sandstone, what is good varies.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
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I tried to love the sandstone. It never loved me back.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
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Key Beta: Prepare to take some grief for hauling on SpaceShot.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:42pm PT
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No offense, but it sounds like you need some more mileage on the stone before you start worrying about wall climbing. IMHO.
Best.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
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Key Beta: Prepare to take some grief for hauling on SpaceShot.
^^^+10k
The Organasm is a better choice for practice hauling.
The East face of Washington Column original route is a better choice for practice wall climbing.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
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E, I believe your right, I think you haul from the ground(a pedestal below the 5.10v) to the 3p.
That's what I'm telling you. Hauling from there is yeomans work, even for someone like me (big/heavy). If you follow leader with a bag on your back (even if you do it twice) I suspect will be easier than hauling up that choss.
But don't take my word for it, try to get some good beta.
And don't listen to these people saying you need more experience, blah blah. You've got a set, use em and go on an adventure. Rock climbing without consequences is called sport climbing. My climbing was stunted due to being overly conservative. Go for it. You might find out you're the next pirate. But you won't kill anything sitting on the couch.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 30, 2016 - 10:22pm PT
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do touchstone with a bivvy then push spaceshot drawing on your now vast wall experience.
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Ryans
Trad climber
Idyllwild, CA
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Aug 31, 2016 - 07:24am PT
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I soloed the route a few years ago and hauled. Here's what I know:
-Hauling from the "pedestal" sucks and your bag will get stuck. I climbed the first 2 pitches, then rapped down to that nice looking 5.9 hand crack (alpine start?) and fixed to the bolts at the top. This gives you a more direct haul line, but requires you rap back to the ground after climbing 2 pitches. The pitch 3 haul sucks too.
-As a solo, I probably should have just done it in a day after fixing to P3. The time wasted hauling would have put me on top before dark if I hadn't hauled. I guess this depends on how fast you are at aiding.
-The aid cruxes on this are no joke. I took numerous falls, including a 20 footer caught by my Silent Partner. I suck at sandstone aid climbing though. I've never fallen on up to C4- on granite, but I fall every time I climb C2 in Zion.
-Take lots of 0.75-2 C4s or equivalent. You'll need them to avoid back cleaning.
-That ledge isn't very flat for sleeping, especially for 2 people. But the top is. Maybe just top out and sleep up there? It is really cool when you're in the canyon at night, in pitch black, with no sounds other than the river.
-That last pitch ain't just a bolt ladder... be ready.
-Don't die on the descent. Some of those rap stations are pretty sketch to get to with a bag.
Good luck! You can do it, but be ready for an adventure. I'd recommend you not think about where you can/can't bail from because you probably will end up bailing. If you go above P3, just go up!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Aug 31, 2016 - 07:54am PT
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I'm outta here!
I'm not sure when's what's what, and when's wattszz izs nuttzz
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JohnnyG
climber
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Aug 31, 2016 - 11:20am PT
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5. We are both currently reading Chris Mac’s book, reading /watching Mark Hudon’s stuff and lurking on ST and MP trying to garner as much info as possible. Anything else we should be looking into?
you gotta practice this stuff more than you read about it (practice jugging, practice aid leads)
6. Reading about raptor closures for the Leaning Wall and Moonlight Buttress, we ‘re having a hard time confirming if Spaceshot gets closed for Raptors? because if so, early April trip would have to be rescheduled. On that note, is April a good time to go for an attempt? Our worry is that anytime after April will be too hot, & before than too cold?!?
Call the park about raptor closures.
From my experience, March is not too cold.
Clint's right: leading 5.7 on gear is low end for big walls...over the next 6 months focus on getting lots and lots of trad pitches on lead, which equates to lots of experience placing gear. This is a basic requirement, but can totally be achieved.
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Da-Veed
Big Wall climber
Bigfork
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Climb to 3, fix down to the pinnacle, its like 65m to the ground. Rap to the tree above the 5.6 start and fix a 15-30 foot something (like a 8mil line) to the dirt. You can bivy at the top of two. The traverse pitch is the crux(5?) with weird pods, think green aliens. It is no harder than 5.6. Be careful getting to the start of the raps.
Prodigal Sun is way better.
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