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SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 30, 2016 - 10:05am PT
Really? I'm surely not the one to start the thread?....
Boring week. Looking for some interesting reading.
;)



Susan
ec

climber
ca
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:11am PT
Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, IMO he's in no place right now in his career to be a role-model/spokesman.

 ec
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:13am PT
Most likely he was just practicing sitting while the rest of the team is out on the field..
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:31am PT
I thought what he did was most ironic.

His conduct was no different from what many Republicans have done for the last 25 years: Emphasize the negative about our great country and our great people (great, not perfect).
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:34am PT
I briefly watched the third quarter last Friday, until the beginning of the fourth, when my host John decided to change the venue to Toronto (he bought a higher-priced ticket that day for four new Murdoch Mysteries) because the Pack seemed to have the game in hand.

We heard no mention from either Ryan nor Robinson during the break. But that's not their job, is it? Cosell would feel much differently.

So I had to look this up.
http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/Key-Quotes-from-Colin-Kaepernick-49ers-Teammates-on-Aug-28/bf85743d-3b62-4b29-bfd1-c733f743e708

Me, I'm simple. CK* is only one guy, so he can't possibly speak for the entire team. But he's got guts and he's young and not jaded news junkies like we.

I wish him the best and semper fidelis, Faithful!

Rah!It's really no big deal, is it? Just a slow news day after all.

*I really have to stop confusing the names Colin and Justin...I originally typed JK. So let him run for POTUS when he's older, if he's still so idealistic.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:38am PT
From his debut in The League I said he did't have the brains to succeed and this just proves it.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:40am PT


Brother H. Rap Brown after he moved to Idaho.

"no better way to enslave a man than to give him the vote and call him free"

[Click to View YouTube Video]

One select comment from the audience


"hobama is STILL a celebutante prez"


rag up and bang
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:43am PT
IMO...

Not a big deal and so what...

Exactly. Only the opinions of entertainers (which includes professional athletes) running for public office matter to me.

John
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:46am PT
I understand the "why" he's protesting, but not the "how."

Best to get psyched for the upcoming game, and to not get your teammates questioning you before the opening whistle blows.

Sez he's going to sit for more Nat'l Anthems.
I wonder.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:46am PT
Reilly, no one expected a mental match for Terry Bradshaw back then. His young legs and nerve were enough. Smarts come later.

Rag up, dude.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:50am PT
I reserve the right to support the fact that its his choice while also taking advantage of my ability to condemn his actions.

If people in this country would return to realizing that some sh#t is going to happen that they don't agree with and it doesn't mean they should race to the capital house steps in an effort to get it outlawed we would all be a little better off.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Aug 30, 2016 - 11:03am PT
Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, IMO he's in no place right now in his career to be a role-model/spokesman.

I support his first amendment rights, but why is he now just becoming interested in black lives. Why wasn't he speaking out years ago?
Lurkingtard

climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 12:29pm PT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 30, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
Francis Scott Key was a slave owner.
The third verse, that we don't use, celebrates freed slaves being killed after fighting for the British, or the Canadians if you prefer. Patriotism shouldn't be forced at the point of a gun like North Korea.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 30, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
You'd think a guy who's looking forward to a season of riding the pine wouldn't pass on an opportunity to get up and stretch his legs.
WBraun

climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
Just cheap lip service sitting down ....

After all the men and women who sacrificed their lives for our freedoms in wars and peace to make this country so great.

It's an insult and disrespect to all those regardless how the politard loons think.

One should stand with respect and use a different medium to voice their concerns ......
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 30, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
Ok Chaz, that was funny!


Edit: So Werner, do you love America or hate it? I can't keep up man!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 30, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
Most of the people complaining about his actions are wearing make America great again hats. It a f*#king sporting event and why should we have to stand for some bullshit symbolism?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, IMO he's in no place right now in his career to be a role-model/spokesman.

Bob, I agree. He is just a person playing a stoopid game.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
Jackie Robinson, Ali, John Carlos and others African Americans have done the same and still this country is gunning down African Americans.


But little shits like this basically walk.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/remember-brock-turner-from-3-months-ago-hell-leave-jail-on-friday_us_57c58c81e4b0cdfc5ac9256b



"Maybe he can pay his electricity bill with his bullshit symbolism too?"

I don't think he has to worry about that.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
why should we have to stand for some bullshit symbolism?

It's about showing respect to our veterans... dumbass.

CK is spoiled little brat. Instead doing something honorable... something to move the conversation forward... he acts like a whiny d#@&%ebag.



EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
Jackie Robinson, Ali, John Carlos and others African Americans have done the same and still this country is gunning down African Americans.

Nearly all of the gunning down is being done by African Americans.

Hmmm.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
Instead of making a meaningless punk ass gesture he could man up like Lebron James
who is gonna send 1000 kids to college:

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/8/13/9151441/lebron-james-foundation-scholarships-akron-cavaliers
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
If someone doesn't wave the flag, he/she doesn't respect veterans.

Stupid assumption.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:19pm PT
Jackie Robinson, Ali, John Carlos and others African Americans have done the same and still this country is gunning down African Americans.

How dare you leave out Tommie Smith, one of my heroes when I was in high school, since he grew up in Lemoore, not far from here! After all, it was Smith who won the 200 meters in world record time with an injured leg.

Moreover, Smith ran for San Jose State. I admit to retaining an animus against the NCAA because of the racist sanctions they imposed on SJS, more because of Smith than of Carlos.

Seriously, though, what did Jackie Robinson do to disrespect a symbol of the United States?

Again, I really don't care what entertainers say or think unless they become candidates for public office. CK's antics simply can't excite me.

John
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:20pm PT
"It's about showing respect to our veterans... dumbass.

CK is spoiled little brat. Instead doing something honorable... something to move the conversation forward... he acts like a whiny d#@&%ebag."

Funny.


Make America great again Eddy.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
JohnE...There I was, the black grandson of a slave, the son of a black sharecropper, part of a historic occasion, a symbolic hero to my people. The air was sparkling. The sunlight was warm. The band struck up the national anthem. The flag billowed in the wind. It should have been a glorious moment for me as the stirring words of the national anthem poured from the stands. Perhaps, it was, but then again, perhaps, the anthem could be called the theme song for a drama called The Noble Experiment. Today, as I look back on that opening game of my first world series, I must tell you that it was Mr. Rickey’s drama and that I was only a principal actor. As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world. In 1972, in 1947, at my birth in 1919, I know that I never had it made.



survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
Reilly, that's a great point about LeBron sending 1,000 kids to college.
In fact, every motherlicker who makes over xx millions should do it, starting with Mr Everything Is So Gawdamn Dark In America Trump.
BluntMan

Gym climber
Wild Omar, CA
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
We have a 1st amendment that protects his right to speech and religion. I served in the US Army to protect those rights among others.

As long as Kaepernick can continue to accept the negative feedback without complaining "foul", I have no problem with his decision. It's his right.
chill

climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
Aug 30, 2016 - 02:50pm PT
I don't understand required public displays of patriotism, is it to root out the traitors? I decided to stop saying the pledge of allegiance in jr. HS and fortunately my teacher saw no reason to make a big deal of it, she just let me sit there. How I feel about America, God, or apple pie is nobodies business but mine.
Burnin' Oil

Trad climber
CA
Aug 30, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
It gives all the idiots something to blather on about, to fill their drab, boring, pedantic lives.








Present company excluded, of course...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 30, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-sfpd-racist-text-messages-20160426-story.html
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
Aug 30, 2016 - 03:21pm PT
hey, you can still get thrown out of Yankee Stadium if you move around too much during the 7th inning playing of "America the Beautiful"

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/sports/baseball/10stadium.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=sports&adxnnlx=1219860152-DlFgZe0c8R6kU6s8jv3o2A

“we need to be wary of enforced cultural conformity and the use of a ballgame to impose political correctness on a captive audience.”

Anyways, if they're going to play a national anthem at a major league baseball game it should be that of the Dominican Republic. Let's get real!
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Aug 30, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
He should be able to do what he wants but so should the 49er's if they feel like canning him. If any of us regular dudes did that to their boss at a big event we would not have our jobs long I think. He should put some of his millions where his mouth is hopefully he is.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 30, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
After all the men and women who sacrificed their lives for our freedoms in wars and peace to make this country so great.

Hey Werner - they sacrificed their lives so that people would have the right to do EXACTLY what Kaepernick did.

If you want to respect the troops get on your congressman about properly funding the VA. Blathering "Thank you for your service" and whining about hollow gestures does nothing for the thousands of veterans living with the effects of our ridiculous wars.

I am going to the Texan/Charger game in Houston just before Thanksgiving, I just might sit through the Nationalist Anthem, my bro will video the reaction.

and yeah, I served (not that it entitles me to any additional consideration)

WBraun

climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
You lazy ass Americans can't even stand up and show some respect.

Instead, ya all gotta run yer mouths as lip service.

Stoopid Americans ......
Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber
City of Salt
Aug 30, 2016 - 04:05pm PT
My thoughts are that it's just lazy. He wants to make a statement about social justice without having to put any effort or money into it. If he really cares about black people, or social justice he should work with partners to increase graduation rates, or get more black people to vote. Or better yet, he could start a foundation and spend some of his $19 million to make life better for disparate populations.

I'm sorry, but unless you're Rosa Parks sitting is not social activism. It's just lazy.
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Aug 30, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
If he wants to make himself a target for the unintelligent overly patriotic it's his business. What ever happened to the 7th inning "take me out to the ball Game "? since 9/11 it turned into "God bless America" more overly patriotic nonsense.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Aug 30, 2016 - 04:28pm PT


...they were all written before music got good.


I am now officially irate. QITNL!! Really?! OH MY GOD.

I have one word for you man, one word:

 Antonio Vivaldi;

 Wolfgang Mozart;

 Antonin Dvorak.

OK, it's a long one word. But all are from before 1814 ;)

Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 04:35pm PT
It's great to see so many ST members standing so stiffly at attention, their heads swelling with patriotic pride as they listen to the music and sip kool-aid. . .
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Aug 30, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
It's sad that Kap sees this as a "country that oppresses black people", while I see it as a country that passed the Civil Rights act of 1964 and elected a black person as president twice, but still has a lot of work to complete due to racist individuals and institutions. But of course we have very different experiences so we are both entitled to our feelings.

It did take a lot of guts to make this stand knowing that there would be a lot of backlash. But I'm afraid he's made it about the protest instead of what he's protesting about.
chill

climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
Aug 30, 2016 - 04:44pm PT

...they were all written before music got good.



I am now officially irate. QITNL!! Really?! OH MY GOD.

I have one word for you man, one word:

Antonio Vivaldi;

Wolfgang Mozart;

Antonin Dvorak.

OK, it's a long one word. But all are from before 1814 ;)

Hey! Don't forget my man BACH!
Tom Patterson

Trad climber
Seattle
Aug 30, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
Alright...I haven't chimed in on political stuff for some time, so I'll just pose a few questions:

1.) Why is there a connection between patriotic symbols and sporting events?

2.) Why is there such religious devotion given to these patriotic symbols?

3.) In what sense has the military been "fighting for our freedoms," or "defending our rights" anywhere? I ask this in a very literal sense.

I'll tip my hand here, too: my own sense about the response to Kaepernick's staying on the bench is that speaks way more to the lack of emotional self-control on the part of a public that has embraced a simplistic (as in, elementary level) mythology of U.S. origins than it does to his being a "'Merica hater."
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 30, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
NPR did a good story today about the veiled racism of Fransic Scott Key.

https://theintercept.com/2016/08/28/colin-kaepernick-is-righter-than-you-know-the-national-anthem-is-a-celebration-of-slavery/


From Wikipedia
Anti-abolitionist[edit]
A slave-owner himself,[20] Key used his position as U.S. Attorney to suppress abolitionists. In 1833, Key secured a grand jury indictment against Benjamin Lundy, editor of the anti-slavery publication, the Genius of Universal Emancipation, and his printer, William Greer, for libel after Lundy published an article that declared, "There is neither mercy nor justice for colored people in this district [of Columbia]". Lundy's article, Key said in the indictment, "was intended to injure, oppress, aggrieve, and vilify the good name, fame, credit & reputation of the Magistrates and constables" of Washington. Lundy left town rather than face trial; Greer was acquitted.[21]

In August 1836, Key agreed to prosecute botanist and doctor Reuben Crandall, brother of controversial Connecticut school teacher Prudence Crandall, who had recently moved to the national capital. Key secured an indictment for "seditious libel" after two marshals (who operated as slave catchers in their off hours) found Crandall had a trunk full of anti-slavery publications in his Georgetown residence, five days after the Snow Riot, caused by rumors that a mentally ill slave had attempted to kill an elderly white woman. In an April 1837 trial that attracted nationwide attention, Key charged that Crandall's actions instigated slaves to rebel. Crandall's attorneys acknowledged he opposed slavery, but denied any intent or actions to encourage rebellion. Key, in his final address to the jury said:

"Are you willing, gentlemen, to abandon your country, to permit it to be taken from you, and occupied by the abolitionist, according to whose taste it is to associate and amalgamate with the negro? Or, gentlemen, on the other hand, are there laws in this community to defend you from the immediate abolitionist, who would open upon you the floodgates of such extensive wickedness and mischief?"

A jury acquitted Crandall.[22][23]

This defeat, as well as family tragedies in 1835, diminished Key's political ambition. He resigned as district attorney in 1840. He remained a staunch proponent of African colonization and a strong critic of the antislavery movement until his death.[24]
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Aug 30, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
I remember being a young kid in school and I stopped reciting the pledge of allegiance for a few moments one day and just listened. All the kids reciting in unison sounded an awful lot like brainwashing to me. But then I really thought about the words and what they said and meant to me and I joined back in... with liberty and justice for all.

Yes we don't always live up to our ideals, but there are many good ideals.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Aug 30, 2016 - 05:45pm PT


...it's sad that Kap sees this as a "country that oppresses black people", while I see it as a country that passed the Civil Rights act of 1964 and elected a black person as president twice, but still has a lot of work to complete due to racist individuals and institutions.


Agreed, 100%.

This goes to the heart of my first post here. There is so much about our country that is good and great. And a lot of that is unique to humankind and unique in human history.

My personal favorite American "uniqueness" is The Wilderness Act (which, of course, has nothing to do with race relations). What other country in human history ever set aside land to remain wild (before 1964)? We do some things very, very well.

I have little tolerance for those who choose to emphasize the negative.


10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Aug 30, 2016 - 05:49pm PT

CK is spoiled little brat. Instead doing something honorable... something to move the conversation forward... he acts like a whiny d#@&%ebag."

It may be a ploy to keep his "job".
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 30, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
I think he took the lazy road to call attention to a serious problem. It was bound to backfire. Standing for the Anthem is like the minimum requirement for citizenship. A more effective approach would have been to lend his voice and $$ to the BLM movement.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
The Star Spangled Banner was first sung during the World Series in 1918. It was played because we were at war.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
There is so much about our country that is good and great. And a lot of that is unique to humankind and unique in human history.

Yes, but the U.S.A. is still very racist . . . you all need to get out and see for yourselves.

I think C.K. is trying to make a statement about the rampant police brutality against non-whites . . . more power to him. There should be a separation of church and state, so to speak, when it comes to sports and nationalism . . . no anthems required, except for the Olympics.

To call this man a loser, as at least one poster has, is not very Christian. Has he no right to voice his opinion?
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:24pm PT

Yes, but the U.S.A. is still very racist . . . you all need to get out and see for yourselves.

I for one don't disagree (and I see it for myself more often than I'd like).

But is that problem only an American problem? Or is it a human problem?
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
^I was going to talk to you about that DMT. Are those 50,000 people a corporation?

Then they should STFU.

And locker, they're certainly as patriotic as those that fly the so-called stars & bars in front of their trailers.



Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
What if 50,000 people in a stadium voiced an opinion he should stand up or get out?

No problem . . . too bad they are mostly a bunch of white people that can afford the luxury of sporting events to begin with.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
Is he a whore?

With all due respect, aren't we all whores on some level?
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
I don't think it is proper to refer to men as whores.

Aren't they putos?



Yo



Controversial, eh?

Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
I stand corrected!

Puto indeed!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 30, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
There are definitely some men who are whores.

I know of at least one in my town.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Aug 30, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
Sorry about your bank, Tad. You'll let us know if you need a loan to get by?
SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Aug 30, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
I served in the Air Force and I do not think I am dishonored one bit by what he is doing. Did he say anything negative about people in the service?

It is funny that so many people try to speak for veterans. We are not all of the same mind and some will agree or disagree with just about anything.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Aug 30, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
BFD...Let's jump to all sorts of dumb conclusions and crap your pants with whitey on the moon...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 30, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
Meanwhile...at this very moment...the Trump campaign is desperately trying to find a way to pin this on Hillary.
Edge

Trad climber
Betwixt and Between Nederland & Boulder, CO
Aug 30, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
The whole issue doesn't concern me whatsoever. It's only news because news organizations are harping on it.

Here's some other burning headlines ripped from today's MSN page:

McFee has 'no regrets' about past infidelity.
Who? Apparently some singer I don't know slept around.

Larry King 'emotionally paralyzed' amid scandal.
Isn't he something like 90+ years old? Maybe there's nothing emotional about it.

Trump considers trip to meet with Mexican president.
Ok, I once considered a trip to Vermont to meet with an ex-girlfriend; it never went any further than that as I'm sure I wasn't wanted there either.

Fitness Trainers Gain 60 Lbs. and Drop it Again to Demonstrate How Hard it Is to Lose Weight
Is this something fat people need to be aware of?

Harrison apologizes to Kaepernick, did not know he was black
See what happens when uninformed people jump into something that's none of their business?
SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Aug 30, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
Lol, can I get an apology from everyone that didn't know I was black?
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Aug 30, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
If I had some hot black lives matter pussy to impress I would sit down too .

I'm pretty sure he can get some hot white pussy too.
SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Aug 30, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
Wow Radical...... that is disappointing to hear you say things like that. Not very classy ...especially from a doctor.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
Radical is not a doctor.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Aug 30, 2016 - 08:00pm PT
Like this guy has to go out of his way for pussy...
And as for respecting the troops, where's the respect from the rich A-holes sending kids off to fight for-profit wars?
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Aug 30, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
Copernicus was right!


































edit: there is a bong-shop that I drive past twice a week before/after work. They hang a confederate flag out front. When I drive by, I call them, on the cellular telephone, and say, repeatedly and without interruption, for minutes:










"N-gger-n-gger-n-gger-n-gger-n-gger-n-gger-n-gger! N-gger-n-gger-n-gger-n-gger!", etc


This seems to excite them, although to what end I cannot tell.
Al Barkamps

Social climber
Red Stick
Aug 30, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
shut up Radical.

You're scaring the horses.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 30, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Yes and whites do a wonderful job of staying together too.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2253421/1-3-US-children-live-father-according-census-number-parent-households-decreases-1-2-million.html


https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/the-number-of-children-living-in-single-parent-homes-has-nearly-doubled-in


Are you a single parent??
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 30, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
Your stats are wrong...http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p20-570.pdf
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 30, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
Being born out of wedlock does not mean your were abandon.


Lurkingtard

climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
It's ok to love and hate things about America. If this story gets your ire up. You're an idiot.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 30, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
Kaepernick has lived the American dream. Rags to riches. I salute him for his success. I mean it. I like seeing people succeed. It's a great thing. I wish he'd show some basic respect for the nation he has lived in and enjoyed his success in. If he doesn't respect the nation that's fine too. It galls me, but so what.

But this idea that he has 1st amendment rights to express himself in this context is not so simple. He was at work, employed by the 49er's and the NFL. The 1st amendment protects our freedom of speech from interference by our government (with the obvious exceptions). It does not define what private groups can or can't do. I've had jobs where my boss was very clear on policy concerning what was said or discussed in the workplace. Were they breaking the law?

He has put his employers in a tough spot. Do they tell him to stand? Do they permit his protest? They can terminate his contract in which case instead of getting over $100M he gets "only" about $16M. You know their pissed at him. He sucks, he's poisoned the locker room and has no respect from the team. They can't play him, so he's an overpriced boat anchor.

I think he pulled this stunt because he's a narcissist starved for attention now that his game is in the toilet along with his NHL career.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 30, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
$16m isn't chump change...

It amazes me how fast some people can run through $16M. Four on a house, a few high end cars and maybe a boat. Get talked into one or two investment scams, a few hangers on, and before you know it the repo man is knockin' on the door.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 30, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
Crap. I spit beer on my keyboard. That's funny! Busted.
SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Aug 30, 2016 - 09:57pm PT
Radical you do have a beautiful daughter. But I do not understand what you are trying to say about race and such.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 30, 2016 - 09:57pm PT
Despite my policy disagreements with President Obama and his administration, if I was a Stanley Cup winner invited to the White House I would certainly go. This is exactly what I was trying to refer to in Kaepernick's case. Basic respect. You raise a great point. I thought Thomas was wrong at the time. Guess I still do.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:41pm PT
He is exercising his right as an American, although I wouldn't call it courageous or speaking truth to power...more like tone deaf.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:50pm PT
I support his first amendment rights, but why is he now just becoming interested in black lives. Why wasn't he speaking out years ago?

How do you know he did not? And finally got fed up.

Seems no different than John Carlos and Tommie Smith. And no one remembers the white guy on the stand with them, who gave complete support.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 30, 2016 - 10:59pm PT
Here I tell you what - I'm literally doing a Doctorate course as we speak
I have access to every data base you can imagine
Here's just one study I clicked on - I need to write preventive health teaching and policy for a neighborhood in Balitmore.
Maybe you can help me ?

Maybe you'll be lucky, and I'll be assigned as one of your Committee Professors. Or maybe I will, and you won't be lucky.......
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2016 - 11:44pm PT
in charge of all the doctorates

Weird turn of phrase as I assume you are referring to a PhD or EdD?
I'm sure you'll do well on your orals. I've been on numerous committees and interestingly enough, they do like a little humility.

Susan
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2016 - 12:15am PT
Hey Susan, you were bored. How's this working out?

It was ok. A few thoughtful, reasoned comments but then it went all ST.
But it provided some time killing entertainment on a slow Tuesday night.
I would say I'm a 49ers fan, in a global home team manner. I don't really follow specific players, stats and all that.

Weird thinking I can pull the plug on this thread if I so desire. What a sense of POWER. I think I'll just sit through it.

Susan
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 31, 2016 - 05:50am PT
Radical for President!
SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Aug 31, 2016 - 07:10am PT
Radical....are you hitting on me? I don't do chat on facebook and I thought only teenagers did that. I have no idea what you are saying any more but I see now you are not a real doctor. You also seem to have a serious hard on for Kaepernick....like it's that big a deal.

I only have a bachelors degree but at least it is not from Capella! You do have a fan club here so enjoy that.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Aug 31, 2016 - 07:34am PT
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Aug 31, 2016 - 07:46am PT
Just ask Ray Rice.

Or Rae Carruth.

Travis Henry?

Where's Greg Hardy these days?

Aaron Hernandez?

Hmmm
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Aug 31, 2016 - 09:19am PT
I wake up every morning in a house that was built by slaves.

For me is just a different spin on the same issue (and not in "the content sucks but the delivery was great!" bullsh#t way). I think there's room for more than one right reaction.

For all the under-educated white Americans who support Trump, or the white people who think they don't benefit from their white privilege - that their lives and black lives are valued equally in our society - or the self-righteous self-loving haters in the name of their own self-aggrandizing morality ...

For me, I prefer Kaepernick. But there's room for more than one right reaction in this human thing we do.
WBraun

climber
Aug 31, 2016 - 09:42am PT
You people are insane.

Just stand up for a couple or more minutes is all it takes.

So freakin simple.

Instead you fools go ape sh!t with all this stoopid politics .....
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Aug 31, 2016 - 09:47am PT
Sure, there's a right reaction :-)

As opposed to ... (fill it in however your omniscient omnipotent brain tells you to, because we each know the truth of other people's lives and experiences and brains better than they know themselves)

You Americans, liberals, conservatives, Christians, non-Christians, Supertopians who are interested in this topic, Supertopians who talk about non-climbing related issues, Kaepernick supporters, Kaepernick detractors - you all suck and are doing it wrong! Why can't you be more like me and do things the right way?

"Wise up." "Pathetic." Me power! -> White power! Humans ...
WyoRockMan

climber
Grizzlyville, WY
Aug 31, 2016 - 09:57am PT
Kaepernick, "America's not great", Pitchforks!

Trump, "America's not great", President!
Adventurer

Mountain climber
Virginia
Aug 31, 2016 - 10:00am PT
As a 10 year Army veteran, on one hand I have to say that I don't give a damn about him not standing for the national anthem. It's a free country.

On the other hand, I think he made a poor choice. His action was kind of like refusing to shake hands with the host at a dinner party.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2016 - 10:10am PT
Who could even sit through this! Regardless of your views on CK, this woman...!!!! Can. Do. It.

[Click to View YouTube Video]


Susan
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Aug 31, 2016 - 11:03am PT
I'm a proud vet, and I'm supporting Kaepernick...otherwise what was the point of my service? #veteransforkaepernick.
couchmaster

climber
Aug 31, 2016 - 11:15am PT


He's not voting for Trump either, but now that he's ripped into Hillary I'm looking forward to Bob D and others changing their tune on the man (kid). LOL
"San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick believes that the Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton should be in prison. “We have a presidential candidate who has deleted emails and done things illegally and is a presidential candidate,” he said. “That doesn’t make sense to me because if that was any other person you’d be in prison.” Kaepernick shared his thoughts about the presidential election while trying to explain his decision to sit during the national anthem to protest the United States.

“So, what is this country really standing for?” he asked after bringing up Clinton’s behavior in political office."



DanaB

climber
CT
Aug 31, 2016 - 11:16am PT
The Canadians won the war of 1812?
Anders, I'm not sure anyone did,
And I still want to know - where is Canada? I've looked on every map and in every atlas, nothing.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Aug 31, 2016 - 11:19am PT
And I still want to know - where is Canada?

Educated in the US I take it.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 1, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
Tomi got a new assh ole!

Brilliant, reasoned, highly-educated riposte.

STICK IT, " newsgirl!"

TV journalism in America is of the very worst variety, right up there with televangelism.

Thx, DMT.
SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Sep 1, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
I don't think you can say the nation made him rich and famous....football fans made him rich and famous and they are not the whole nation. I live in SF Bay Area so I've heard of him and the controversy but I don't watch football so I also don't think I made him rich and he's not dissing me either. There are a lot of people in this nation. Kaepernick doesn't speak for them all but nobody else does either.

I see there are other vets here that are supporting him.....how many of the people criticizing him are veterans .... or do they just want to speak for veterans because it makes them feel proud?

http://twitter.com/hashtag/VeteransForKaepernick


SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Sep 1, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
Well I don't know what you are laughing at but I keep scrolling through all the photos on #VeteransForKaepernick and it brings back so many memories and makes me feel proud ....but I'm also not going back, lol!
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 1, 2016 - 05:05pm PT

Pop's has rolled his eyes and called me a pinko communist since I was 14. All laugh's- save your anger for something real.
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Sep 1, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
Just stand up for a couple of minutes is all it takes.

Pretty simple.

Yea, I admire you guys, and enjoy hearing what you think, but at 36685 posts and 25824 posts, I just don't have that much time to sit and post.

If my daughter just changed her skin color, then she could be white like you too. Simple. But I don't mean to say that there's anything better about your brain functioning or skin functioning than hers :-) But you know, sometimes, in the political realm, people do.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 1, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
Dude should have dropped a prayer mat, faced Mecca and let out a loud "allahu akbar". Kneeling was weak sauce.
Inner City

Trad climber
East Bay
Sep 1, 2016 - 10:59pm PT
Kaep is crushing this post-game press conference right now. He is articulating a fairly coherent, non-violent, patriotic message of activism in the face of oppression.
A red and gold panther...

He played ok too..
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 2, 2016 - 06:28am PT
Kaepernick said he would donate the first $1 million he earned this season to organizations that work with the community.

"I am planning to take it a step further, I'm currently working with organizations to be involved, and making sure I'm actively in these communities, as well as donating the first million dollars I make this year to different organizations to help these communities and help these people," he said.

Kaepernick added: "I've been very blessed to be in this position and make the kind of money I do, and I have to help these people. I have to help these communities. It's not right that they're not put in the position to succeed, or given the opportunities to succeed."

Respect
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Sep 2, 2016 - 06:38am PT
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 2, 2016 - 10:04am PT
To call this man a loser, as at least one poster has, is not very Christian. Has he no right to voice his opinion?

Au contraire passing judgement on people you don't know is the Christian thing to do. Ironic no? yes? maybe?

I've really enjoyed the intelligent, compassionate, insightful posts on this thread. Thank you both!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 2, 2016 - 10:23am PT
He played ok.

All that I, as a 49ers fan, should give a damn about.

But it took guts to do what he did.

And they say any ink is good ink.

That may or may not be the case,
but in a way, CK's doing the front office's PR staff a favor in that respect.

He should get a bonus. :0)

^^^^Irony, fer sure, Wade!
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 2, 2016 - 11:00am PT
He took some good advice and took a knee instead of sitting. To me personally that's a huge difference. Sitting seems to show disrespect, like he wouldn't be bothered to stand up, but kneeling shows he's concerned and deferential. Again that's just how I feel personally.
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Sep 2, 2016 - 11:45am PT
http://dailysnark.com/report-tony-romo-doesnt-stand-national-anthem-cowboys-game/
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 2, 2016 - 03:25pm PT
As a responsible fan of the Niners, and a devoted one of Joe Montana's, here is what Joe said.

This is what Holy Joe said.

In comments made in May.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/colin-kaepernick-san-francisco-49ers-joe-montana-comments-051216

"...I don't know his mental state at this point, whether he wants to be with the 49ers or not," Montana said.
"You read some of the things that says he doesn't want to be there.
If he doesn't want to be there, most of his teammates don't want him there.
Then trying to get that back is difficult.
I think it's all dependent on how he goes about everything when the team gets back together."

What do you say now, Joe?

Should he sit or should he squat now?
Should he speak or should he not now?

It's easier when all you have to worry about is to pass or not.

I don't lie a lot of drama with my Wheaties.

Just bananas and milk.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
Haven't followed anything here, but have been ranting all week with fellow Niner fans. They hate him too, somewhat.

Im watching Batman VS Superman now and noticed a weird parralel, if you will.

Julian Assange is a guy who drops controversial information meant to divulge not only gov't secrets, but specifically ones that divulge an intent of willful deception (lying), pay for play politics (corruption), and possibly a vulnerability to national secrets (treason).

And then there's as#@&%e Kaepernick. He has obviously been brainwashed by other people to think he's oppressed and the 'black man' is 'put down'. Or whatever.

One person operates to bring light to dark secrets that are damaging to our country.

The other person is perpetuating falsehoods of American culture, while he profits from the same culture that he claims is unfair to people like him.

Julian Assange is kind of a prick, but he's also like Batman. The authorities hate him because he makes them look incompetent. He exposes thruth, and sometimes the own dishonesty of our 'authorities'.

nah000

climber
no/w/here
Sep 2, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
only read the last few pages, so maybe this has been said:

considering he managed to get even a bunch of honkies on a climbing board talking it seems like regardless of whether one agrees with his position or not, what he did was completely successful...



with that said, it's pretty mind boggling how uptight some of you get over someone making a peaceful and completely non-obtrusive action with their own body.



are some of you really so insecure about whether or not the good ole u s of a is the greatest country on earth that you want to control every single person who might want to point out that from their experience/perspective there might be some issues?

or is it just that the brown shirt goes with your eyes?
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Sep 2, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
I'm fine with whatever CK wants to do...just wish he would start playing football again...probably not going to happen.

Would it be more exciting for everyone if he poured on some gas and lit himself on fire?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
nah000, it's deeper than the simplicity you portray it as. And you're smart enough to realize this. That makes me question where you're trying go, other than possibly just trolling.

What CK did needs to be stomped out immediately, as well as the whole falsehood premise that BLM is based on.

It is all another illusion to distract us. To distract us fro the very f*#king thing he claims to be 'fighting for'. Unity.

THEY want us divided. And idiots like CK help THEM. He is not helping US. Even when he does his 1Mil 'contibution' to help people.

Is he really that stupid? Or just mis-guided?

nah000

climber
no/w/here
Sep 2, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
sure blue... no question there is more being debated than just his action of refusing to stand.

i intentionally chose not to address the main other issue [as i see it] because i don't really have much to add to the debate of whether or not the black lives matter movement is "correct", "well-intentioned", "misguided" and/or etc.

as an outsider [both non-american citizen and white] what i may or may not have to say wouldn't add much to the debate, even if i had strong opinions.

but so that you know not all of my positions are black and white [ha!] what little opinion i do have is relatively split when it comes to the blm movement... on the one hand there is no question that systemic racism and white supremacy still exists in the us of a... on the other hand to suggest that that is the only or even a majority of the issue within black communities at this point in history [as from my relatively little informed viewpoint seems to sometimes be suggested by spokespeople within the blm movement] sems to me to be potentially rooted in too much externally directed and divisive blaming rather than being balanced with the both internal and external communicative solution building that is going to be required if the usa is to heal from its past [and sometimes present]... at the end of the day though, that is only a relatively ill-informed outsiders irrelevant two bits.



and so with that grey discussion out of the way, i still think anyone who believes that sitting during a national anthem is a reprehensible fashion to communicate a position [whether one agrees with that position or not] is at least a budding fascist [or aka an authoritarian nationalist], if not an outright card carrying one.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2016 - 09:51pm PT
on the one hand there is no question that systemic racism and white supremacy still exists in the us of a... on the other hand to suggest that that is the only or even a majority of the issue within black communities at this point in history [as from my relatively little informed viewpoint seems to sometimes be suggested by spokespeople within the blm movement] sems to me to be potentially rooted in too much externally directed and divisive blaming rather than being balanced with the both internal and external communicative solution building that is going to be required if the usa is to heal from its past [and sometimes present]... at the end of the day though, that is only a relatively ill-informed outsiders irrelevant two bits.

I love yer viewpoint, but disagree a bit. There is definitely not a "systemic" racism in this country. Some would argue that Affirmative Action has actually gone too far, and I'd agree, that people are actually treated in a more benevolent manner BECAUSE of their race, not despite it. Of course that does not apply to 'wrong-color' people whould happen to be 'yellow' or also 'brown' (Asian Indian).

They need not apply.

Can you see where this is going? Can you see why my home-boy, Marthin Luther King Jr., said we should not judge people by the color of their skin, but the content of their character.

This may seem noble, and it is, it's fundamental. But it took a bold black dude to drive it home. Our Founding Fathers would be proud.

We are over the racist phase of our country in our souls, but some people keep stirring up the residue from the bottom of the pot. They actually thrive off of conflict and racism.

These are not necessarily bad people, but are very misguided.

I have a new thread about this in 2 seconds....
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 2, 2016 - 10:08pm PT
How much as a percentage do folks like Gates and Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan and Jackson and Thomas Dolby donate to goodwerks!

It would have been better had the K-Man took double knee.

Father Serra would have. He couldn't donate due to his vows of poverty and hypocrisy,
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Sep 2, 2016 - 10:21pm PT
regarding your quote, blue, that: "There is definitely not a "systemic" racism in this country."

here's one of the quotes that wiki uses regarding the definition for systemic or institutional racism:

"The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."

when you [blue] say that there is no systemic racism, i am assuming you must be referring to overt systemic racism involving objectively written laws for example. and with regard to that one specific example, sure, the u.s. as far as i am aware does not have those types of laws any longer.

but with regard to the definition of systemic or institutional racism, as i've shown above is generally accepted, it is much more insidious than just overtly written laws.



when exactly the same pair of resumes, except for the differing names of shiniqua johnson or jane doe being at the top, results in 50% more callbacks for the person with the white sounding name, then systemic racism exists. full stop.

and this is only one minor example.



systemic/institutional racism is insidious and to deny its existence is to either fail to understand what those words are generally being held to mean...

or it is to fail/refuse to accept the objectively, repeatedly, scientifically and statistically shown discrepancies in the way white and black people are treated by the institutions that form the backbone of the u.s.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 2, 2016 - 10:36pm PT
Leave aside unwitting, there is plenty of outright blatant racial disdain if not hatred to be contended with and as Ali pointed out it ain't Vietnamese.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2016 - 10:39pm PT
Maybe you could hint at what legal system you're used to. Tell us, at least, where your theories are based from. Is that fair?

Institutional/Systemic racism.

You sound like an academic. ANd that is o.k., my favorite criminologist, Crimpergirl, is the same. An Academic. But I know she does get into the 'field' and actually see stuff herself. I also understand academics go on figures and data. I get that.

What I think you fail to see, or relate to, is the common man. Or the common black/brown man as this discussion is based on.

You overlook the root cause of the problem. Again and again. It isn't about racism or profiling necessarily. It's about life choices. It's about failing to live up to their obligations to our society.

It's not really hard, if you're willing to work for a living.



nah000

climber
no/w/here
Sep 2, 2016 - 10:49pm PT
Maybe you could hint at what legal system you're used to. Tell us, at least, where your theories are based from.

genuinely, not sure what you're asking with this...



You overlook the root cause of the problem. Again and again. It isn't about racism or profiling necessarily. It's about life choices. It's about failing to live up to their obligations to our society.

that's where we both agree and disagree...

as you've stated, you see the world/"common black/brown man's" plight as being based solely on a person's choices.

i agree in part... but i disagree that it is based solely on choices, and so i see it as being based both on choices and on externalities.

and so when you see it as being based solely on people failing to live up to their obligations to our society, i see it as being based both in people failing to live up to their obligations to society AND to societies failing to live up to its obligations to people/individuals...

which is where my [ill-informed] "critique" of the blm movement departs from... as they [sometimes?] seem to trend towards only the latter half of that "and" pairing...
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Sep 2, 2016 - 10:50pm PT
^^^so you grew up black in the ghetto? Who knew?

Pretty hard to judge anyone in this world without walking a mile in their shoes...IMHO
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2016 - 10:51pm PT
I talked to my Niner-fan good buddy about this. He's a 'millienel', a bit younger than me, but after working with me for a decade he's starting to see sh#t clearly.

I suggested, I sh#t you not, 2 days ago (before he did it today) that CK put his money and rep on the line. Donate 1/12 his income (1 Million dollars) to start a South San Francisco Inner City Kids Club.

It would take 1 x 150,000 salary to head coach, and 3 x $75,000 assistants. The other money goes to buying gear for all kids, and renting facilities that are safe.

All he has to do is show up once a month and sign footballs and say, "stay in school, get educated, and have fun".

You know how many lives he could save by doing that????

EDIT:
Pretty hard to judge anyone in this world without walking a mile in their shoes...IMHO

That's bit of BS, but just a bit. Politicians, for sure, are totally out of touch from 'regular' society and culture. They fester in their own weird goo that I just can't relate to, as a 'commoner'.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Sep 3, 2016 - 12:12am PT
not that I care, but the dude doesn't look black. I mean, less black than Obama, whose mother is full-on white.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 3, 2016 - 03:21am PT
You know, He's not exactly the first person to sit out the national anthem. A few decades ago this was fairly common passive protest.

Why is this such a big deal now? Why is it even news?

Is it just because he's black?

That used to be okay, too!

Have we really swung so far to the right that we are outraged at people of color making political statements?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Sep 3, 2016 - 04:32am PT
And the police wonder why they have an image problem.....

Santa Clara Police Union Threatens Boycott of 49ers Games Over Kaepernick Protest

Read the whole article here: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Santa-Clara-Police-Officers-Association-May-Boycott-Working-49ers-Games-392214541.html


A quote from the police union leader:

"The board of directors of the Santa Clara Police Officer's Association has a duty to protect its members and work to make all of their workings environments free of harassing behavior,” the letter added."


mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 3, 2016 - 07:52am PT
The Captain speaks.

All hear this.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/05/sports/sp-kareemchina5
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2016 - 09:21am PT
Bluering said:
but after working with me for a decade he's starting to see sh#t clearly.

There is so many places to go with that statement. But I'll be a good little old lady and keep my mouth SHUT! ;).

Susan
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 3, 2016 - 09:32am PT
I hear ya, Susan. It was meant kinda tongue-in-cheek.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Sep 3, 2016 - 09:43am PT
The problem of racism and police violence has once again been pointed out by someone who has the worked their way to a position to where their voice can be heard on an international level. Freedom of speech is a right regardless of the circumstances or repercussions. This person excercised their right. Agree, disagree, address the issue of police violence or racism, or call foul. Extremism or denial will never be never a constructive solution.

FYI, on a related issue;
The Equal Rights Amendment has never been ratified.
I cry foul.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 3, 2016 - 10:48am PT
not that I care, but the dude doesn't look black. I mean, less black than Obama, whose mother is full-on white.

Kaepernick's biological mother is full-on white too--she's been on the media seeking attention.
Obama's father was of course 100% African black; I don't know what Kaepernick's father's specific make-up is, but since most black Americans have a substantial amount of European ancestry, it's not surprising that Kapernick is somewhat more white than Obama and somewhat more European and than African. He basically looks like a white guy with a deep tan, but who really cares.

And remember the "1 drop rule": because certain racists think (or thought) it's important to describe anyone with any African ancestry as "black," we're forever constrained to follow that convention. If you don't understand that, it's because your privilege has warped your thinking--don't even question it, just accept it.

For example, there's a part of me that wonders how people even know that Kapernick is "black"--does he describe himself that way? And why would people assume that the controversy has anything to do with him being "black," when it's self-evident that he isn't "black" in any sense other than the "1 drop rule"--he's mixed but almost certainly more European and African biologically.

But it's not productive to ask questions like that--more important to keep looking for examples of the pervasive racism going on and all that.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 3, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
I refused to say the pledge in fourth grade, circa '68. Classmates stunned. Parents were called. Teacher incensed. Sent to the Principal. Got a Swat with the discipline paddle. Been a true Christian patriot ever since.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 3, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
Kaepernick looks like Squiddly on Sponge Bob Square Pants...Now he's sporting a large afro...Dude's a Black Panther...
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2016 - 06:42pm PT
.Dude's a Black Panther...

Black-ish


Susan
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 5, 2016 - 09:56am PT
she's not a black panther:


A member of the 2015 World Cup-winning U.S. women’s soccer team is standing, or rather kneeling, in support of Colin Kaepernick.

On Sunday night, Megan Rapinoe took a knee while the national anthem played ahead of a game between the Seattle Reign, where Rapinoe is a star midfielder, and the Chicago Red Stars.

And the 31-year-old said after the game that she will continue to kneel going forward as a “nod to” the 49ers quarterback, according to NWSL reporter John Halloran.
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
Sep 5, 2016 - 10:12am PT
RJ's right, there's an uncanny likeness


monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 5, 2016 - 10:14am PT
There will be a handful more kneelers on opening sunday.
splitter

Trad climber
HighwayToHell
Sep 5, 2016 - 11:15am PT
RESPECT!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 5, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
I liked watching kaepernick when he was the starting QB...I liked his line drive passes and his 15 yard dashes...I respect him for standing up for the less fortunate and don't buy into the haters who think he's a terrorist...Squiddly..
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 5, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
I liked watching kaepernick when he was the starting QB...I liked his line drive passes and his 15 yard dashes...I respect him for standing up for the less fortunate and don't buy into the haters who think he's a terrorist...Squiddly..

Hello? The dude is a f*#king walking testament to how awesome and compassionate the United States is.

He was abandoned by his black father when he and his white Mom were young. The loser mother then abandoned him too to adoption. Good thing he wasn't aborted, huh?

A couple of aging white folks wanted to adopt another boy into their family and welcomed young Colin into their home. He did well in his new home and with his new caring parents.

For this little rotten punk to come out this way now and blame America for it's race problems is utter bullsh#t, and quite hypocritical given his past.

He is here BECAUSE of white American compassion. Sorry we can't help all forgotten minority kids, but we're doing the best we can.

I'm tired of this blame whitey crap. F*#k you, move to Nigeria or South Africa if you think whitey is too racist for your precious ass!

I'm tired of this bullshit!!!
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Sep 5, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
Take the brown acid, bluey.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 5, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
One thing he said no one can argue with. And that's cosmetologists need better training.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 5, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
Bigotry in America is very active...

Looks like it might even be growing...

Explain how.

EDIT: let me help you out, Locker.

Law/Order and the hand of justice is out of control in this country. We have people in the highest offices of our government who appear to be above the law that usually convicts 'smaller' people.

The average joe still gets pulled over and harassed for the usual sh#t, even bald tires gets you a f*#king fix-it ticket that, if unresolved, turns into a bench warrent.

Next time you get pulled over for speeding, guess what, you have 'bench warrent' for not taking care of your other sh#t. The LAW NEVER FORGETS THE 'SMALLER' MAN. You got to jail overnight and probably make bail.

That's how me and you are dealt with. Like every other 'smaller' person. Doesn't matter what color you are. Crying about race is bullsh#t. All 'smaller' people get f*#ked with the same. Some of us have learned how to avoid confrontations with the law. Mostly.

Some haven't. It ain't about race. It's about class. You can literally get away with murder if you're connected, even espionage.

Me or you dont pay our parking tickets? We know what happens.
Al Barkamps

Social climber
Red Stick
Sep 5, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
blahblahblah wrote...
I don't know what Kaepernick's father's specific make-up is, but since most black Americans have a substantial amount of European ancestry

I thought for sure blahblahblah was talking out his ass, but a little digging around indicates that American descendants of slaves are anywhere between %20-%30 white. For men alone, the figure is about %35. But, for Kaepernick, it looks like he's at %95 Hamburgler.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 5, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
Burger thef is a violation that even the big people get popped for...
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 5, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
You know bluering instead of always trying to convince everyone you are right and know what's going on, you should listen to what other people think and try to have some empathy for people of different backgrounds. Not only will you come across a lot better and understand other points of view, you'll probably save yourself from an aneurysm.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 5, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
you should listen to what other people think and try to have some empathy for people of different backgrounds.

The problem with people like you is that you assume I'm stupid and have not only not thought about the sh#t I spew, but I haven't lived it and seen it. I have, trust me.

I'm tired of the bullsh#t. Empathy? I have a lot. Like Afican Elephants, I have tons of empathy there.

People breaking windows and looting stores is not civil justice, and will get you the opposite. If people stopped and thought, they could fix this. Quietly.

Instead, everybody wants an excuse to get in the news, break things, and be a 'leader' of the cause.

They don't understand they're doing so much more damage than good. It drives me crazy!!!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 5, 2016 - 10:15pm PT
For this little rotten punk to come out this way now and blame America for it's race problems

I am puzzled as I thought that you were part of the group that believed in responsibility.

Who EXACTLY should be blamed for the race problems in America??
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 6, 2016 - 06:32am PT
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/27/is_ferguson_feeding_on_the_poor
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 6, 2016 - 06:40am PT
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/16/us/missouri-city-to-pay-4-7-million-to-settle-suit-over-jailing-practices.html?_r=0
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 6, 2016 - 09:33am PT
How about Colin's new afro?

So authentic.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 6, 2016 - 10:06am PT
No Bluering I don't think you're stupid. From what you post I can tell you are intelligent. But you do not display empathy for people of different backgrounds who you are at odds with, you usually vilify them.

We are talking about Kaep who is trying to fix this "quietly".

Have you ever been discriminated against because of your long hair? I had a few comments back in the day because I had long hair, once from a potential employer and once I heard it second hand that it had come from the CEO of my company. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. But I've experienced a TINY bit of discrimination.

No imagine it's your skin color and you can't change it. Would you just live with the injustice or want to do something about it?

I totally agree that violence or vandalism is totally lame and counterproductive.



HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Sep 6, 2016 - 10:09am PT
bluering posted
Explain how.


You've had this explained to you ad nauseam over years. If you still don't know and lack the the curiosity to do some research on your own it's just willful ignorance at this point. Fingers in your ears insisting this can't be true.

The insistence that white America has that tens of millions of non-white Americans are incorrectly articulating their experience living in our country is a defensive mass delusion. We can't even respect our fellow countrymen enough to acknowledge that maybe our personal experience isn't the universal American experience.
i-b-goB

Social climber
Wise Acres
Sep 6, 2016 - 10:15am PT
fierce...

http://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/article/17467341/nwsl-seattle-reign-us-women-national-team-player-megan-rapinoe-national-anthem-kneel-nod-san-francisco-49ers-quarterback-colin-kaepernick
SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Sep 6, 2016 - 10:26am PT
The insistence that white America has that tens of millions of non-white Americans are incorrectly articulating their experience living in our country is a defensive mass delusion. We can't even respect our fellow countrymen enough to acknowledge that maybe our personal experience isn't the universal American experience.


Most of my friends and coworkers are white and Asian and mixed race ....I don't even know what race some of my coworkers are. They all have different opinions and ideas about race and just about everything else. Maybe there are places where white people are all alike but I have not seen it where I have lived. I think phrases like "white America" or "black America" don't really say anything useful and is even a bit racist because it assumes that all people in a race think alike, which I know they don't.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 6, 2016 - 10:29am PT
Seriously?

DMT

No. Not seriously.

Comical.

Kinda reminds me of the joke about a black man wearing a tux to his vasectomy.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Sep 6, 2016 - 11:24am PT
SusanA posted
Most of my friends and coworkers are white and Asian and mixed race ....I don't even know what race some of my coworkers are. They all have different opinions and ideas about race and just about everything else. Maybe there are places where white people are all alike but I have not seen it where I have lived. I think phrases like "white America" or "black America" don't really say anything useful and is even a bit racist because it assumes that all people in a race think alike, which I know they don't.

Is that a picture of you in your avatar?
SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Sep 6, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
HighDesertDJ posted

Is that a picture of you in your avatar?

Lol....this isn't Tinder! Why do you ask? I'm not a Trump fan if that's what you want to know....you were looking at the hat, lol? No of course it's not me and I know you already googled it. She does kinda look like me except I'm not quite so.... I'll let you guess the rest!

Oh, Is that a picture of you in YOUR avatar? Weird but cute I guess!

Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Sep 6, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
It's a big country and while some places are diverse there are also still color lines and segregation. The best tracts of land are controlled largely by WASP land deals and WASP banks and a largely plantation economy. As hard as my or your German ancestors may have had it in some generations, there is no comparison to the generational disenfranchisement and abuses experienced by American First Nations and the descendants of African Slaves. That is all.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Sep 7, 2016 - 09:08am PT
SusanA: http://youtu.be/CjEf30FD7yo?t=329



And Supertopo is a bastion of pasty middle aged white dudes, especially in the political threads, and "I have a black friend who thinks" or "look here is a video of a black person who agrees with me therefore this is ok" posts abound. I was just trying to parse out if your avatar was ironic, representative or just a "look here is a picture of a black person with a Trump hat so Trump can't be racist" sort of thing.

Thanks for being willing to jump into the political threads. We get pretty feisty so hold on to your butt.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Sep 7, 2016 - 09:16am PT
She's not quite so willing to wear plaid I think is what she meant.
SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Sep 7, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
And Supertopo is a bastion of pasty middle aged white dudes, especially in the political threads, and "I have a black friend who thinks" or "look here is a video of a black person who agrees with me therefore this is ok" posts abound. I was just trying to parse out if your avatar was ironic, representative or just a "look here is a picture of a black person with a Trump hat so Trump can't be racist" sort of thing.

Yes I know you are trying to know if I am black because that seems to important to you, what race people are. The answer is that I'm half, from my dad. My mother is Puerto Rican. The picture is a joke because my boyfriend has one of those hats but I don't think he is into Trump as much as he was before.

Thanks for the youtube of that goofy old climbing video. Those guys without shirts looked like they could be in San Francisco, lol! I've seen a bunch of climbing videos but not that one. I recognize Joshua Tree because I went down there last winter with a meetup trip and would hope to go again this year. It is so beautiful! I grew up in Brooklyn and did not even know there was such a place.
splitclimber

climber
Sonoma County
Sep 7, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
fully behind CK.

I keep coming back to thinking of this video

[Click to View YouTube Video]

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 11, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
Y otra movemiento nace.

Should keep everybody "occupied" for a time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/sports/nfl-scores-schedule.html?_r=0
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 11, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
The national anthem should be something more than a patriotic tune we automatically snap to attention to. We can leave that to North Korea. We are the United States and must set an example for the rest of the world. It is great that the various protests have sparked a peaceful and respectful conversation. Makes me proud to be a North American (Cannucks are cool too)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 11, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
CK is a naive fool, and a useful 'idiot', or tool.

He's being a willful participant. It's hard to ever forgive for the DAMAGE he's doing, despite his "good intentions" for the "persecuted".

He's a f*#king tool of the distorted cause. He's dead to me.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Sep 11, 2016 - 02:52pm PT
It's hard to ever forgive for the DAMAGE he's doing


pray tell, what damage is he doing?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 11, 2016 - 04:44pm PT
So much for respectful conversation. One does not call one's respondent a "tool" but since he's "dead to you," Blurring, why even mention him?

Yer the tool, nanner nanner.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 12, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/09/12/black-body-count-rises-chicago-police-step-back
Gregory Crouch

Social climber
Walnut Creek, California
Sep 12, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
I'm a veteran with a combat infantryman's badge (earned in the most lightweight manner imaginable, but that's a story for a different thread), and I absolutely, 100%, support Colin Kap's Constitutionally protected right to peacefully protest any injustice he perceives in our society.

I do not feel in the least bit disrespected by him taking a knee during the national anthem, and nor should anyone else. He is making a gesture to draw attention to something he feels isn't getting the attention it deserves in our society.

The man is clearly exercising his Constitutionally protected right to free political expression. (The highest form of Constitutionally protected expression--or, if you will, the least limited form and clearly the most important, an argument with which the US Supreme Court has always agreed.)

I'm a patriot and I don't like saying the Pledge of Allegiance. The Flag? The Republic? Ah... no. I swore an oath to the Constitution, THAT is a worthy promise, and if I served for any reason at all, it was to defend the Constitution of the United States against its enemies.

"I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America."

And I am well aware that quite a number of flaws were baked into the original document. Fortunately the founders provided for its amendment. It's not perfect, and neither is the country it founded, far from it, but it is the most successful political experiment in world history. So far.

We should be celebrating the fact that we live in a society that allows a man to peacefully protest as his conscience demands. I know I do. THAT is something worth fighting and dying for.

I don't feel that his gesture pushes the limits of good taste, either. He is making an extraordinarily effective and courageous protest at great personal cost. I honor him for it.

Go Raiders.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Sep 15, 2016 - 09:12pm PT
imo, this belongs here:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Inner City

Trad climber
East Bay
Sep 16, 2016 - 08:58am PT
Great post Greg Crouch! I completely agree.

Go Niners!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 16, 2016 - 09:09am PT
I could care less about if he stood or sat
It's free country

what I hate is the reactionary losers that get so upset on such a stupid issue

The country has so many other problems, why focus on one football player

Why?
Because they want to punish people they see as non-supportive of their personal views, which is pretty sick
dirtbag

climber
Sep 16, 2016 - 09:12am PT
What Craig said.

Bfd
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Sep 16, 2016 - 09:04pm PT
bluering, speaking as the white parent of an adopted child, huh?

His parents adopted him, as you say, because they wanted a child. Lucky them! It wasn't a white humanitarian mission intended to raise that black child out of savagery and into domesticated white society, but I can understand where that perspective might come from. Even Cragman as a white adoptive parent of a black child says that the poor outcome that his daughter was facing by waiting so long in the orphanage to be adopted until he came along was a symptom of society's racism, not any fault of her own, or any fault of her biological parents.

His loser mother? You think his adoptive white parents wanted him to reject his biological heritage and his biological parents, and instead pay homage to his adoptive white parents? Naw, that's you talking, not them - they have their child's interests at heart, not a defense of their own white privilege.

The idea that I as my child's adoptive parent would instill in her a rejection of her birth heritage and replace it with her worshipping me and the benifience of my white compassion (while median black wealth 150 years after slavery is 1/13 median white wealth), how sick and twisted and an abuse of my white privilege would that be, and how detrimental that would be to her sense of identity, after I received the precious gift of my child partly because our society's racism created the conditions where she needed to be adopted.

Maybe think twice before you adopt a black child. If Kaepernick were my kid, I'd be really proud of him.
slabbo

Trad climber
colo south
Sep 17, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
What is his plan ? just take a knee ? How about maybe actually doing something with the millions he still accepts for this "vile country".


If he really had any balls, he'd donate his game check to something useful.
Darren D.

Social climber
Sep 17, 2016 - 08:35pm PT
Kaepernick doesn't have balls?

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/07/news/companies/colin-kaepernick-donating-money-jersey-nfl/

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/colin-kaepernick-says-hell-donate-1-million-to-charities-that-help-communities-in-need/

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 18, 2016 - 08:16am PT
A million dollars is nothing.

Kaepernick pays better than half of his hundred-million dollar+ salary to The Government - the ones who are supposed to be helping communities in need.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 20, 2016 - 09:42am PT
If he really had any balls, he'd donate his game check to something useful.

As I pointed out long ago Lebron James has donated $41 MILLION to send 1000 kids to college.

I'd say that's a much bigger percentage of his net worth than's Kaepernick's one mill.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 20, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
Another vet (and Seahawk fan even) for CK.
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 22, 2016 - 11:29am PT
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 22, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
You do, sometimes,
In the front of a bus.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 22, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
Another vet for CK.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID
Sep 22, 2016 - 12:25pm PT
Make that 2.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 23, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
Check out this video.
https://www.facebook.com/peggy.hubbard1
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Sep 23, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Hey God bless CK..I have hard enough time gettin by myself. If people judged me by my skin color too, I'm sure I'd absolutely lose it...as far I'm concerned our country is a better place with people of color--so let's please stop shooting them...

As MLK said "we may have come on different ships, but we are in the same boat now" --f*#king A right on.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 23, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
Chaz...good point..!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 24, 2016 - 07:30am PT
Why in the hell do they play the stupid National Anthem before these games in the first place.

That's the problem, not if you sit or stand.

I don't want to hear it at a game with my beer in my hand, I'm there to get away from the usual BS

but they shove the BS down my throat like a Nazi Youth Camp.

The whole National Anthem routine is just a set up for abuse and condemnation,
remember when Rosanne sang it off key,

Maybe CK can help us get rid of the National farce




Chaz, good point
WTF????

No stupid ass point
A million dollars is not very much???
In what world is that?

He shouldn't have to donate a penny to anything, he should save his money so when he can't play football anymore he has a savings left
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Sep 24, 2016 - 07:37am PT
Why in the hell do they play the stupid National Anthem before these games in the first place.


Good question
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 24, 2016 - 09:30am PT
Craig...Chaz's point that CK is taxed and his taxes should be going towards helping communities ( not the pentagon ) is what i meant...When would you hear the national anthem if it wasn't played at a ball game...?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 24, 2016 - 09:55am PT
Then I take it back
Good Point Chaz

Pay your Taxes like a Good Patriotic American!
c wilmot

climber
Sep 24, 2016 - 09:59am PT
it would be nice if our incredibly biased media would highlight the fact he is also highly critical of Hillary and the democrats. Instead the media buries his comments about her. Honestly after reading what he had to say I am pretty supportive of his views as our country is messed up in ways that go far beyond political leanings
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Sep 24, 2016 - 11:26am PT
When would you hear the national anthem if it wasn't played at a ball game...?

Holidays, or historically significant events.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Sep 24, 2016 - 11:45am PT
I'm feeling like maybe taking a knee. Tired.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 24, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
Why in the hell do they play the stupid National Anthem before these games in the first place.

That's the problem, not if you sit or stand.

I don't want to hear it at a game with my beer in my hand, I'm there to get away from the usual BS

Poor put upon Derf. You've really got that victim schtick down.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 24, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
60,000 people at a football game appreciate the national anthem. And a couple dozen don't. Too bad.

I like hearing various vocalists getting their shot at it. Cranking the intensity for the rockets red glare.

I heard John Legend complain about it and say it's a weak song. And "I should know I'm one of the best at singing it" so I pulled him up on YouTube. Horrible rendition, tons of vibrato making it all about himself instead of any deference to the song. I like a little vibrato when appropriate but not every frickin bar.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Sep 24, 2016 - 09:31pm PT
60,000 tools and a dozen free thinkers,sounds about right. . .
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Sep 24, 2016 - 09:53pm PT
Silly song, silly patriots...
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 24, 2016 - 11:31pm PT
It must suck to find something to be miserable about everywhere you look.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 25, 2016 - 02:33am PT
60,000 tools?

Standing for our National Anthem is a practice supported by the overwhelming majority.

Suck it up, you whiny bitches.
rincon

climber
Coarsegold
Sep 25, 2016 - 07:10am PT
More like 60,000 idiots.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Sep 25, 2016 - 07:10am PT
when Trump is elected, everyone will stand and salute or be thrown over the wall
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 25, 2016 - 07:13am PT
If the Niners have trouble filling seats in the stadium this year ( they just might, they may be off to a decent start now, but the Niners only get to play the Rams one more time this season ) they should consider starting Kaepernick. A lot of people will buy tickets just to see him get knocked on his ass a few times.

I used to tune in to Bears games just to watch McMahon get knocked on his ass.
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Sep 29, 2016 - 10:33am PT
Looking through some of the media on the subject:

One poll showed a large racial divide, with blacks approving of Kaepernick's protest 72% to 19%, while whites disapproved of his protest by 69% to 23%. No discussion on which group were Americans, and which group were free thinkers or condescending as#@&%es.

Another interesting article where Kaepernick said that his adoptive parents "agree with what I'm standing for," while his adoptive parents declined to comment, saying "It's not in our best interest or Colin's best interest (for us to comment)."

One of the neighbors in the neighborhood where they live said Kaepernick's protest has been met with resounding disapproval by residents in the community.

I'm glad that his adoptive parents have his best interests at heart, but I'm sorry that he had to be raised in a neighborhood that disapproved of him so strongly. But maybe that was better than living in a neighborhood where he would be approved of 72% to 19%, but where his adoptive parents might be disapproved of. You know how Americans can be.

IMHO, when we process the complexity of this stuff using our simplistic heuristic belief processes, we're bound to make a few mistakes.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 29, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
What if you agree with what KC's saying, but you think he can choose a better time and place?

Maybe do something that's not so divisive and potentially counterproductive? Like focusing his efforts on voter registration.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 29, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
It must suck to find something to be miserable about everywhere you look

For black males it sucks to be confronted with something miserable everywhere you turn and be at risk every time you have an interaction with the police.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 29, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
Except they are not at risk "every time" they interact with the police. That's a prejudiced statement. There are plenty of police who are capable and don't treat black people any different. Granted there's plenty to be concerned about, but saying are at risk from every cop only perpetuates prejudice, stereotypes and lack of understanding.

I see a lack of understanding and the other point of view so often from both sides. Some people say "It's the black guys fault, he didn't do what he was supposed to do" and some people say "it's the cop's fault, he shouldn't have used deadly force".

For the majority of these bad situations in the national press lately it seems both the cop and the citizen contributed to the situation. The citizen not doing what they should have (although sometimes they do like it seems with Philando Castile) and the cop over reacting (but if you felt your life was at risk you may too) perhaps due to prejudice or worse.

The black lives matter people should be saying "we are concerned about unequal treatment of black citizens" but they should also be educating people about what to do if approached by police "don't resist arrest, do what the police say". And the other side should be saying "cops need to protect themselves" but also "these high profile deaths of unarmed black people is concerning and we need better training and community outreach". No one wants to admit their side did anything wrong.

Eric Garner is a great example (the guy put in a choke hold getting arrested for allegedly selling cigarettes in NY). He shouldn't have resisted arrest (even if he wasn't doing anything wrong) and the cop shouldn't have put him in a choke hold. But you almost never heard either side admitting that both he and the cops contributed to the situation.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 29, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
Obama's recent comments about Kapernick are spot on IMO:

"I want Mr. Kaepernick and others who are on a knee to listen to the pain that that may cause somebody who, for example, had a spouse or a child who was killed in combat and why it hurts them to see somebody not standing," Obama said. " I also want people to think about the pain he may be expressing about somebody who's lost a loved one that they think was unfairly shot. One of thing I saw about American democracy is that it can be frustrating, but it’s the best system we’ve got.”

“I also always try to remind folks that part of what makes this country special is that we respect people's rights to have a different opinion and to make different decisions on how they want to express their concerns,” he said. “The test of our fidelity to our Constitution, to freedom of speech, to our Bill of Rights, is not when it's easy, but when it's hard. We fight sometimes so that people can do things that we disagree with, but that’s what freedom means in this country.”
dirtbag

climber
Sep 29, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
It always seemed odd to have the star spangled banner played before sporting events. The last few years, baseball games have increasingly played "god bless America" during the 7th inning stretch. What's wrong with the classic "take me out to the ballgame?"

Anyway, having to stand up and sing star spangled banner is basically a somewhat forced public display of patriotism. I stand and do it anyway, but if they stopped playing it altogether I wouldn't miss it. Just one more reason for folks to get their panties bunched up. I'm pretty sure the union won't fall because CK sits it out.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Sep 30, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
The Department of Defense paid NFL teams more than $5 million over four years to buy moments that honored troops. This includes the Singing of the National Anthem and Honor Guards. It's all just marketing, Stupid Americans. . .paid patriotism. . .
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 30, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
You mean the Department of Pork ?
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Sep 30, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
What if you agree with what KC's saying, but you think he can chose a better time and place?

IMHO, totally reasonable for us to believe that other people can believe and behave in ways that we better approve of.

In the calculus of our human belief formations about what behaviors we approve of in this particular human, 72% of blacks approve of his protest, while only 23% of whites approve of it. But I'm sure there are also other variables involved in the calculus of our beliefs about how this person should behave.

For me, part of my calculus is that it's an expression of our white privilege for a white person to raise a black child in a neighborhood where they're disapproved of by 69%, instead of a neighborhood where they're approved of by 72%, because raising them in an environment where they're approved of might involve a loss of OUR white privilege of enjoying the racially disparate approval of OUR racial brethren. And in the magnanimity of our racial privilege, where 150 years after slavery ended, median white household wealth is still 13 times(!) median black household wealth, we believe that subjecting them to such a "superior" environment is an expression of OUR racial compassion, instead of an expression of our white privilege.

Like an east-side Sierran neighborhood maybe, where it's 85% white and 0% black according to the 2010 census. What a bummer for Kaepernick to be raised in a town like that, that disapproved of him so strongly, however well-meaning we and his adoptive parents believe that we are, and however successfully we're able to hide that disapproval, and couch it in seemingly well-reasoned, but obviously racially disparate, beliefs.

But, we're not all all bad - even Trump says that not ALL Mexican immigrants are rapists and criminals. I'm inclined to believe that you, gentle reader, are one of the good ones.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 30, 2016 - 09:57pm PT
Except they are not at risk "every time" they interact with the police.

Compared to a white person? Every time.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Oct 1, 2016 - 08:21am PT
So you are saying every cop is racist. I don't agree.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Oct 1, 2016 - 09:01am PT
He didn't say that. Raise the dialogue and try to understand. And if you really agree with Obama then realize that he's asking for understanding in both direction. If I take a knee it's because false patriots send young men to murder and die for bad reasons and bad thinking.
As you were.



American False Patriots are defined as Pro-US Military, Pro-Militarized Police, and usually as American Muscular Christians ( not the pacifists like their Jesus was.)
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Oct 1, 2016 - 11:56am PT
Okay then explain the claim: Why are black people are more at risk than white people "every time" they interact with police?

Maybe he was trying to say statistically on average they are more at risk, which is true, but to say "every time" they interact is a very different claim.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Oct 1, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
And honestly I had no idea so many people took the National Anthem to have such a militaristic bent. Yes it's lyrics are intertwined with a military fight, but anthems are typically celebrations of a group and in particular a country not the military.

I've always thought of it primarily as a celebration of the USA. I consider myself a citizen of the world first, but I'm also proud and appreciative of my country. It's not perfect. But there is a lot to love and a lot of the ideals of freedom, justice, and equality that are foundational to the USA have since spread across the world.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Oct 1, 2016 - 12:58pm PT
Okay then explain the claim: Why are black people are more at risk than white people "every time" they interact with police?

Every single time a black person interacts with the police it's like playing roulette. It's not a matter of of whether all cops act in a prejudicial manner - it's a matter of never knowing which you're dealing with and every single time a black person gets stopped they're at risk of dealing with a bad cop and their odds in that respect are way, way higher than for a white person.

Checkout the latest: Man sitting on his mother's porch beaten by cops even after showing id with the address of the house.

City council voted unanimously Monday to permanently sanction Officer Travis Cole for using excessive force during the June arrest. The body camera footage shows Cole roughly throwing Dejuan Yourse to the floor of the porch and punching him as Yourse waited for his mom to come home and let him into the house, according to local news WREG.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 10, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
I think it’s dumb and disrespectful. I would have the same answer if you asked me about flag burning.... I think it’s a terrible thing to do, but I wouldn’t lock a person up for doing it. I would point out how ridiculous it seems to me to do such an act.

If they want to be stupid, there’s no law that should be preventive. If they want to be arrogant, there’s no law that prevents them from that... What I would do is strongly take issue with the point of view that they are expressing when they do that.

Morons!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 16, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
13 outta 29 for 187 yds
That didn't go too well, did it? I know, he's distracted.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 8, 2016 - 07:00pm PT
Seems like a chickenshit move to be all socially conscious and everything - and then not vote.

http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/No-vote-49ers-Kaepernick-won-t-choose-10601840.php

Sitting out the election too.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 8, 2016 - 09:55pm PT
Welk, that's the way he reads defenses, too.

"Phuk, I dunno, I better run it."
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Nov 27, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
Wow! 3 touchdown passes and ran for 113 yards!

"That guy sucks" says your affect heuristic. Fair enough.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 27, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
He had a decent game but he got picked and they lost. When yer QB is yer leading rusher yer gonna lose more often than not in this league. That's why the Seahawks suck now too.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Nov 28, 2016 - 06:31am PT
His nickname should be "Almost"
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 21, 2017 - 07:24pm PT
I admire the guy...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/colin-kaepernick-donald-trump_us_58d185f0e4b0ec9d29e022ed?gml7qghd7xwhwu3di&


Go Colin.


F*#k the NFL DMT.

He when high, you when low.


rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 21, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
Trump the Soviet sell out nit-picking Kapernick for not standing for the national anthem...? What a tool...
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Mar 21, 2017 - 08:27pm PT
Really?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 21, 2017 - 08:35pm PT
"Colin Crapernick is a moron."


Backwoods flag wavers crack me up.


rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 21, 2017 - 08:45pm PT
Jody... Trump plans on starting an NFL expansion team in Moscow ( not Idaho)... Crappernick will stand for the Russian national anthem and Trump will take a knee ( in front of Putin )...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 21, 2017 - 09:33pm PT
What possible advantage would the Russians have in favoring Trump over a Russian patsie like Hillary? Nobody has explained that to me yet.

You continue to overwhelm us.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 21, 2017 - 10:10pm PT
Obama implicitly encouraged the Ukrainians to fight back against Putin and
got sucker punched. Putin owned Obama over the Ukraine, the Crimea, and
Syria. If you think otherwise yer on Datura.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 21, 2017 - 11:24pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 22, 2017 - 06:31am PT
Good dude.

Meals on Wheels has confirmed a $50,000 donation from former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick.

The group that provides food for seniors in need thanked Kaepernick for his donation on Tuesday. It came a day after President Donald Trump took a swipe Kaepernick during a campaign-style rally in Kentucky by taking credit for the lack of suitors for the free agent. Kaepernick's refusal to stand for the "Star Spangled Banner" ahead of 49ers games last season as a protest of police treatment of minorities became a topic of national debate.

Meals on Wheels faces a sharp funding cut under Trump's proposed budget.

Kaepernick is also promoting a campaign to raise millions of dollars for drought relief in Somalia.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 22, 2017 - 06:45am PT
Putin owned Obama over the Ukraine, the Crimea, and
Syria.

Sure, Ukrainians and Syrians are going to be so much better off with Trump as president. Donnie will own Putey
dirtbag

climber
Mar 22, 2017 - 07:29am PT
If trump et al did nothing wrong with respect to Russia, then why do he and his men lie about it incessantly, even under oath? And why is the FBI investigating? As you might recall, trump sure made hay of the fbi's investigation of Hillary. The truth is, we just don't know much yet, but maybe it's because of actions like this:


https://www.apnews.com/122ae0b5848345faa88108a03de40c5a/Manafort's-plan-to-'greatly-benefit-the-Putin-Government?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 22, 2017 - 07:45am PT
Obummer tricked the Ukrainians into defending their own country?

Dang you find the stupidest stuff on da interwebs.
GuapoVino

climber
Mar 22, 2017 - 08:00am PT

Aug 30, 2016 - 01:01pm PT

WBraun wrote:

Just cheap lip service sitting down ....

After all the men and women who sacrificed their lives for our freedoms in wars and peace to make this country so great.

It's an insult and disrespect to all those regardless how the politard loons think.

One should stand with respect and use a different medium to voice their concerns ......


Does that also apply to Nate Boyer? He's the one that told Kaepernick that the most respectful way to protest was to take a knee.
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 22, 2017 - 08:02am PT
Trumps former campaign manager Mannafort had signed $10M/year contract to help the Russians. And Jody still wonders why Putin would prefer Trump over Clinton?
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 22, 2017 - 08:05am PT
this fear mongering over the russians is nostalgia inducing. but not a lot else.



let's recap what's happened in the last 30 years:

 the ruskies attempt at an alternative global system of distribution and direct competitor to globalized capitalism fails.
 the russian vacuum is filled with black and grey market folks who are quite happy with the current global arrangement where, as but one recent example, apple can sell $4 buhbuhbuhbillion dollars worth of electronics and over priced cases in new zealand alone, and pay $zuhzuhzuhzero in local taxes.
 dudes like deripaska want some influence, like all of the rest of the big money players have, and so pays $10 million to "insiders" like manafort.
 manafort fUcks deripaska out of $17 million dollars that he was supposed to invest.
 "somehow" the a.p. ends up with key documents explaining the relationship between deripaska and manafort.



come on.

this, in all likelihood, is a story as old as capitalism itself. rather than kill a guy that's fUcked you, you attempt to publically castrate him.



hilarious [or sad depending on the cynicism level of the moment] is that parallel to the righties who think the results of the often parasatic and objectively unfair distribution model is due to too much government [rather than the current globalized synthesis of economic/political arrangements], the lefties are quick to fall back to a nostalgic xenophobia... rather than look at the left's hand in creating the current conundrums that we now face.



only difference between the russians and the apples of the world, at this point, is that the new/old foxes have a few things to learn from the old/new foxes already in the henhouse.

russians are as much a threat to the system as a whole as apple is.

they just want their proportional piece of the political influence pie...

just like everyone else.



and the lefties say: how high?
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 22, 2017 - 08:32am PT
In 2006 and lasting years. Funny how Jody tries to minimise this.

Mannafort resigned after his ties to the Russians became a public liability. Mannafort's associates have been seen inside the Whitehouse. He still has considerable influence.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 22, 2017 - 10:09am PT
If it was harmless, why keep lying about it?
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Mar 22, 2017 - 11:30am PT
Hillary and the Democrats met with the Russians as much if not more than the Repug's did.
Big difference between official visits that the public knows about (hence the photos, news stories, etc) and visits that were not public and were subsequently denied or lied about. Jeff Sessions hung himself by volunteering false testimony about never meeting with the Russians when that was not even what he was being asked about.

We expect our public officials to meet and work with foreign governments, I would get upset if they shirked their responsibility and failed to hold meetings with both allies and enemies. I don't expect folks like Flynn to secretly talk with foreign ambassadors to undermine the current foriegn policy before the new POTUS is sworn in, as that gets to be pretty treasonous really quick.

The lies and cover-up are a crime and betrayal all their own. If the repug's were rabid to impeach over lies about a hummer, they should be frothing at the mouth over this much more substantive festering pile of lies and betrayal.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 22, 2017 - 12:06pm PT
Give it a rest. Something nefarious can be made of anything, particularly in our hyper-partisan era.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-tells-medvedev-solution-on-missile-defense-is-unlikely-before-elections/2012/03/26/gIQASoblbS_story.html?utm_term=.18a336914e95

Everything comes down to interpretation, and interpretation is driven by partisanship and agenda.

The sky is not falling.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 22, 2017 - 12:08pm PT
It will once we finally learn the truth about Hillary's e-mails. Heard her quinoa salad recipe was lifted from Putin. "Wire tapped" his microwave.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 22, 2017 - 12:28pm PT
Heard her quinoa salad recipe was lifted from Putin.

Nah. A better thing to look at would be her "relationship" that motivated her to give away uranium to Russia. Even the left-leaning NYT found the tit-for-tat questionable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0

But, as I said, you can find "questions" everywhere you look, if you're so motivated.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 22, 2017 - 01:03pm PT
Ah yes, the Clinton foundation, where money nefariously went to charitable causes.

What charitable causes did manafort give his $10 million to?

Why do all of them--especially trump--keep lying incessantly?
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Mar 22, 2017 - 01:12pm PT
Jody,
The idea as to why a an evil self interested Oligarch, who is owned by Russian entanglements
and so has been used to destroy a working democracy, ( as opposed to a women patriot?)
the Trumpster is the tool ,it is the - On going war- that we have lost!

You can not be as stupid as you claim to be.
Putin's ability to destabilize our government (by the use of tools), is well documented.

WBraun

climber
Mar 22, 2017 - 01:21pm PT
You stoopid Americans destabilized your own govt. not Putin.

You stoopid Americans are as stoopid as Trump or even more so and drink too much kool aid and do too many drugs.

That's why you deserve an idiot like Trump because you're as dumb or dumber than him .....
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 22, 2017 - 01:30pm PT
I think the duck nailed it...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 22, 2017 - 01:31pm PT
From the outer reaches of the solar system the ignorance streams...
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Mar 22, 2017 - 02:03pm PT
He played in 11 games (taking a knee) last year and won 1 game.
His best seasons were before he took a knee in 12,13, and 2014.

Let's see, if I plug the relevant numbers into my computer and do the math, the result I get is that he sucks as a football player and his suckiness is correlated with his kneeling! I just do the math on the numbers that survive through my information screening processes.

It just might be that our processors are infected with the affect bias virus? Nah, we're just omniscient omnipotent computers of truth.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Mar 22, 2017 - 02:08pm PT
Colin Crapernick is a moron.
Sure, Trump spends months on the campaign trail saying how sorry American is, our military sucks, no one respects us, and buffoons like Jody lap it up with a spoon and put him in the White House. Kaepernick refuses to stand for the Anthem to protest an issue and he earns Jody's derision.

I disagreed with him not standing. He was also dead wrong when he commented during the first debate that Trump and Clinton were just arguing over who was less racist (stupid comment and probably inspired a few people not to vote--look how well that worked out). Still, I have nothing but praise for him for his donation. Well done sir.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 22, 2017 - 06:05pm PT
Trump is a moran...Trumpty dumpty sat on a wall...Trumpty dumpty took a big fall...Dumped the bitch on the next corner...
dirtbag

climber
Sep 28, 2017 - 03:39pm PT
Kaepernick gets a boost thanks to the orange narcissist.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Sep 28, 2017 - 03:47pm PT
According to tRump, people protesting racial injustice are unpatriotic.

All hail tWitler.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 28, 2017 - 05:49pm PT


"no better way to enslave a man than to give him the vote and call him free"

[Click to View YouTube Video]

rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Sep 28, 2017 - 05:58pm PT
Make soccer great again!

If you say so Donnie boy.

Works for me.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Sep 28, 2017 - 06:06pm PT
First Things First host Nick Wright does a great job explaining how this protest has been spun to be about the anthem.[youtube=https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/28/16378846/nfl-protests-trump-nick-wright]
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Sep 29, 2017 - 08:25am PT
Ain't it great how all the white folk get so, uppity, when a Black Man with money speaks out against racism...df

Edit, See what I mean? Classic case, loser. . .ha! Loser deleted, can't even stand behind his words. . .
EdBannister

Mountain climber
13,000 feet
Sep 29, 2017 - 08:51am PT
Hmmm, how many of you think the workplace is the place to protest? The NFL turned down the request to honor fallen police officers in Texas, because it was political, why is this ok when that was not? oh wait, not a level playing field?


The Duck nailed it.. true.. and when he spells incorrectly it is on purpose.

and Mr. Bear, to a leftist results do not count, only accusations...

just a few fun facts:

Black population at the start and finish of Obama's 2 terms.
Lower rate of home ownership.
Lower employment rate.
Lower net worth.

and, if you check lifestyle among black population, where it is the worst i.e. black on black murder, unemployment, etc. those are all cities run by the left, for the last 50 years.. but no dots connected.

meanwhile i no longer watch or listen, to the NFL.. i do not work for an organization the hires felons, or Michael Vick after conviction, or endorses disrespect for the country.. yes still imperfect. yes prosecute convict, and i say execute any cop who kills anyone who is not a threat. but an unarmed black man is more likely to be hit by lightning, by a factor of two, than he is to be killed by a cop.

For those who require no documentation when it is an accusation of collusion, 300 people per year are killed in the USA by lightning strikes. Black population is ten percent so the likelihood is about 30 black victims. 2014 is the most recent FBI statistic year available, 16 unarmed blacks were killed by police, including those who posed a threat. So if you are black, you are twice as likely to be struck by lightning and killed, as you are to be killed by a cop when you have no weapon. all round numbers mind you, no 23.7 with implied accuracy of plus or minus one half of 1%.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Sep 29, 2017 - 10:06am PT
So Ed, you're saying that African Americans should [edit: not] be concerned about being murdered by a police officer during a routine traffic stop because it's more likely statistically that they'll be killed by lightening?

Also, remember the old Shakespeare quote, "the devil can quote Scripture for his purpose"?, any Republican can find a soundbite from an African American and rely on that as the left's failure to improve the lot of African Americans. That doesn't eliminate the reality that the right not only failed, but failed to even attempt to improve black communities. Also, the economics references by Ed are likely true as to all Americans. Home ownership has slipped out of reach for all Americans. Wages have lowered for all Americans, etc., etc. Convenient how Ed failed to apply those statistics to the other 87% of the population.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 29, 2017 - 07:34pm PT
Ed Bannister...Repubs want more over-population for cheap labor to appease their corporate owners...The Repubs are the ones cutting planned parenthood and sex education acting all holy and spiritual....The pious Repubs are the ones telling the poor to f*#k off when they need help eating and paying rent ... In my book Ryan and McConnell and any of the other hypocrite millionaire republicans that use Jesus as a calling card should be prosecuted for fraud and imprisoned...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Oct 4, 2017 - 06:10pm PT
Ed Bannister...Repubs want more over-population for cheap labor to appease their corporate owners...The Repubs are the ones cutting planned parenthood and sex education acting all holy and spiritual....The pious Repubs are the ones telling the poor to f*#k off when they need help eating and paying rent ... In my book Ryan and McConnell and any of the other hypocrite millionaire republicans that use Jesus as a calling card should be prosecuted for fraud and imprisoned...


Well said rj.


Well I watched the Anthems for both MLB wildcard games and no one on either team sat or kneeled in protest, what gives?

Is MLB classier than the NFL?

Thought you were better than this, Tad.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 4, 2017 - 09:30pm PT
I'm reminded of the old saying, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". Justice Brennan, when discussing a flag burning case said that while one should respect the flag, he wouldn't wrap himself in it. People didn't die for the flag or the anthem. They died for what they stand for. If an African American rightfully wonders whether he or she will survive a routine traffic stop by a white cop, you have to wonder what the flag represents to them.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
Oct 5, 2017 - 08:11am PT
Half the people at pro games are buying beer or pissing in a urinal during the anthem. Why is that ok but taking a knee to make an actual point is wrong? I don't care either way, It's just a song and a piece of fabric. The creepy jingoism and fake patriotism associated with it is weird-- I'd sit through it if I didn't think some cretin would beat me up.
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Oct 5, 2017 - 08:38am PT
Did Kapernick ever get a job?

Nope, he's fully unemployed right now. Look folks, all this is about ratings, which have been and are down with the NFL. You can go on and on about patriotism and all that but the reason Kapernick is unemployed is because of how unpopular with fans he is.

Ratings are down, he's unemployed. It does seem like he's the fall guy for all this though. He's a way better quarterback than many starters right now.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 5, 2017 - 10:19am PT
And that is why I stand,
to recognize the sacrifice they made.
Tad, I totally respect your decision. I stand (and sing along) when they play the Anthem at the Hollywood Bowl. You gotta do what works for you. However, I also agree ontheedge that many others (including those probably criticizing Kaepernick) are equally, if not more, disrespectful. In Kansas City, they scream 'home of the..."Chiefs!" instead of "brave". People run to the head or buy snacks, talk, etc., etc. Lots of disrespect to go around. Not that Kaepernick is even disrespecting the Anthem. He's just using it to make a conscious statement.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Nov 2, 2017 - 04:56pm PT
DMT... Nude NFL stars... ? That's pretty f*#ked up sh#t dude...! Film them playing in womens' lingerie...
dirtbag

climber
Nov 2, 2017 - 04:57pm PT
Yes, the Trump Organization.
sween345

climber
back east
Nov 2, 2017 - 06:37pm PT



[Click to View YouTube Video]
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Nov 2, 2017 - 08:00pm PT
Peaceful, non-violent protest is always ok. Glad he is allowed to have and make known his opinion.
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Nov 2, 2017 - 09:18pm PT
"And I am glad to make my opinion known by not watching the NFL"

I support your peaceful, non-violent protest, too.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 2, 2017 - 09:25pm PT
This includes justified killings of unarmed suspects.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Nov 3, 2017 - 07:30am PT
This is worth a read.

https://www.snopes.com/do-police-kill-more-whites-than-black-people/

More whites than blacks are killed by police, while the blacks have a higher possibility of being killed. While race can certainly play a part in this--some folks are violent racists--there's also no doubt that African-Americans are responsible for a disproportionate amount of violent crime, which would place them in harms way more frequently. Also, African-Americans tend to live in more dangerous neighborhoods, too. And, of course, they are WAY, WAY, WAY more likely to be killed by a brother in the hood than any cop, white or black. So, yeah, some cops shouldn't be cops, and ALL cops must be held to the highest standard, but Kaepernick's protest kind of misses the target if we really want to save black lives.

BAd
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Nov 3, 2017 - 07:47am PT
whites kill more whites than people of color do.

the ultimate white privilege is to grouse about a black guy exercising constitutional rights while a white supremacist gleefully shits all over the Constitution and the American people.


Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Nov 3, 2017 - 08:49am PT
@xCon: I'm actually off for some climbing right now--astonishing, eh? But I can look it up later. A little basic googling will find this to be true, however. I don't know about absolute numbers, but the key here is "disproportionate." I'm happy to be found wrong.

Okay, 30 seconds of wk. turned up this. Lots more out there. See the table. As I suspected, whites do more--in total because more whites--but as African Americans are a much smaller group, they are found to commit a disproportionate amount of the crime:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/02/sally-kohn/sally-kohn-white-men-69-percent-arrested-violent/


BAd
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 3, 2017 - 11:46am PT
Asians have a long history of discrimination and systematic racism in this country as well, yet Asians score extremely low on the poverty/violent crime scale.

Why the blacks? 4% of the population being responsible for half the U.S. murders is more than systematic racism.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 3, 2017 - 02:41pm PT
How come African American crime is higher now than it was during the days of The Great Depression, when poverty was worse and racism was institutionalized?

4% of the population being responsible for half of the U.S. murders is shameful. Making excuses for it is also shameful.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 3, 2017 - 02:41pm PT
Y’all are beating on this poor topic harder than NFL defenses beat on poor Colin!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 3, 2017 - 04:19pm PT
You have no answer to my simple question. Everyone does drugs. That can't be the reason.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 3, 2017 - 04:32pm PT
There was never a time when young Italian men were responsible for half of the murders in this country.

Try again!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 3, 2017 - 04:35pm PT
How come African American crime is higher now than it was during the days of The Great Depression, when poverty was worse and racism was institutionalized?

Chaz.... that has a simple answer. But some people on this web site will hate me even more for saying this.

Back in the good old Great Depression, most people lived in a family unit.... Mom, Dad, Kids....

LBJ's Great Society is at the root of it...It is the lack of Family.


In order to get the welfare for a "Family" you couldn't have DAD around and get benefits.-- so the Dad was sent away.

If one is raised in a household with no Dad... the crime rate of the kids is higher.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jun/23/barack-obama/statistics-dont-lie-in-this-case/
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Nov 3, 2017 - 07:33pm PT
Jody.. Admit it...You'd like to see Kapernick in a thong , taking a snap...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 3, 2017 - 08:02pm PT
btw "the Blacks" is a racist slur

Certainly not. Non-blacks did not originate the term. It is not used as an epithet or a put-down. It is, perhaps, antiquated. perhaps "caucasian" is, as well.

Black is not a race, it is a color. There are many people who are black, but are not African-Americans. Sub-Saharan Africans, for one.

There are also blacks, who genetically are not africans, such as many Ethiopians.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 4, 2017 - 08:50am PT
^^^^ Wow, Payton shoulda joined the Teamsters!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Nov 4, 2017 - 02:04pm PT
The Omaha Teamsters...?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 5, 2017 - 10:04am PT
That just might be crazy enough to work.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 20, 2017 - 11:54am PT
Wow.... if I was the coach of the Buffalo Bills, I would want to have Colin on my team as at least the 3rd string, he could't do worse than 5 INT in a half.

But he does want a lot of $$$ ... but heck he is at least as good as 50% of the Qb's in the NFL.
monolith

climber
state of being
Nov 20, 2017 - 12:13pm PT
China’s patriotic crackdown: three years in jail for ‘disrespecting’ national anthem

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/04/china-disrespect-national-anthem-criminal-offence-xi-jinping

Let's be more like China, but we can do it the American Way and have the corporations (ie NFL) enforce patriotism instead of the government.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 20, 2017 - 12:38pm PT
How is it the U.S. leads the world in prison stats if you can do hard time in China for something that's not even a crime here?
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Feb 2, 2018 - 12:12am PT
Slightly OT

THE FILM THE NFL DOESN’T WANT YOU TO SEE

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/01/nfl-concussion-super-bowl-protocol-football/
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 2, 2018 - 12:26am PT
They have my total support.
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 3, 2018 - 07:41pm PT
Nike makes bold move.

https://fox6now.com/2018/09/03/colin-kapernick-named-the-face-of-nikes-30th-anniversary-just-do-it-campaign/
Mule Skinner

Social climber
Bishop
Sep 3, 2018 - 08:36pm PT
The only reason he is not in the league is because he is a terrible quarterback.
If he was a good guarterback he would be getting paid. Politics aside if you play good you get
paid good.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 3, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
Hire the handicapped, they’re fun to watch.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 3, 2018 - 08:42pm PT
Sorry folks!

If you are hating on Kaepernick, you are a racist, & also likely a Trumpist.

Live with it.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 3, 2018 - 08:49pm PT
Jody! You are a redneck racist idiot.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 3, 2018 - 09:08pm PT
As Jody circles his keyboard with his fists cocked & his hand on his trusty pistol's grip, searching for a retort to Fritz's nasty retort, to Jody's nasty retort, he trips over President Trump, who looks up & whispers:

"Give him hell for me Jody!"
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Sep 3, 2018 - 09:08pm PT
It's bad enough paying for endorsements bake dint the price of sports shoes, now there are salaries involved? I will not don another Nike anything
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 3, 2018 - 09:08pm PT
Wait, he’s out of football cause he can’t read defenses.
Fer crissakes, even Johnny Manziel has a job in Canada!
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Sep 3, 2018 - 09:22pm PT
Nike shoes always gave me blisters.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Sep 3, 2018 - 09:30pm PT
Nike's last never really fit my foot but good for them. Companies like their's make SO much money it's nice to see something resembling a social consicence. I give Kaepernick credit for taking an unpopular but important stand and coping with all the flak he's endured since. Karma is a wheel and I hope it's finally turning in his favor.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Sep 3, 2018 - 09:30pm PT

Congrats Colin! 👍👍👍

MRWA- Make Racism Wrong Again
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 3, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
Jody! I somewhat feel sorry for you, since you are so clueless, redneck, & racist. But there is no help for you.

Per your last post:

Fritz, you are such a moron I won't waste any time thinking of a retort. You aren't worth it.

I couldn't stand Obama's policies and actions as president, I guess that makes me a racist too huh?

For you to think that just because I disagree with the actions of an individual who happens to be black that I am racist because of that, then there is no hope for you. Idiot is too soft a name for you.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 3, 2018 - 09:42pm PT
Jody circles his keyboard again, with his fists cocked & his hand on his trusty pistol's grip, searching for a retort to Fritz's nasty retort, to Jody's nasty retort, to his nasty retort, & he once-again trips over President Trump, who looks up & whispers:

"Give him hell again for me Jody!"
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Sep 3, 2018 - 09:44pm PT
Never really read this whole thread...just cherry picked a couple comments:

He's lost some cred in my book.

In over 25 yrs. of teaching and coaching never had a kid refuse to stand for the pledge or the anthem.

I would have been proud of any of my students that actually questioned the practice. I then could have actually done some teaching.
--------------------------------

Just cheap lip service sitting down ....

After all the men and women who sacrificed their lives for our freedoms in wars and peace to make this country so great.

It's an insult and disrespect to all those regardless how the politard loons think.

One should stand with respect and use a different medium to voice their concerns ......

I can't tell if Mr. Duck is serious or knot...but those same men and women that sacrificed I'm betting didn't do it because of the national anthem but rather to support the freedom to choose whether to stand of not.

Also, I'd say voicing "their concerns" so visibly seems a pretty effective way to create discussion about the issue. At least it beats a "tweet".

What a cast of characters this thread contains...
Tweet tweet
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Sep 3, 2018 - 11:03pm PT
Werner is right, but whatever.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 3, 2018 - 11:39pm PT
landcruiserbob

Trad climber
Any island that has waves
Sep 4, 2018 - 01:39am PT


A bunch of Court Jesters. Funny how actors, performers, and sports stars have the ability to invoke change and opinions in our society. Ghegis Khan is flipping around in his unmarked tomb.

Too bad we don’t put more money into people really making a difference but they don’t generate revenue or ROI. We will be remembered as the age of missing our chance...

Aloha and be well

RG
climber bob

Social climber
maine
Sep 4, 2018 - 06:32am PT
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Sep 4, 2018 - 06:47am PT
Freedom of speech
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Sep 4, 2018 - 06:58am PT
I've only followed this whole "take a knee" thing in passing, but it seems he's accomplished little except a lot of acrimony online and in the press. Does he do anything more concrete than symbolism? Help programs in the city that keep kids out of gangs, etc.? If he really cared, it seems he could do a lot more than take a knee. Bad cops need to be held to account, but there's absolutely ZERO doubt that way more black kids and adults are killed by, mostly, young black males. It's a damn shame. With his high profile and fame, he could maybe change some hearts and minds. If he's already acting on these lines, booyah. If he's doing nothing but posing? Welp, he's a poser.

BAd

Edit: Okay, found this. Good for him! I do hope he does stuff directly to address what I mentioned above, though.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jerrybarca/2018/02/01/colin-kaepernick-not-stopping-donations-roll-past-1-million/#27f1d69e1668

Probably mentioned before, but the "freedom of speech" thing is a little off base. Sure, he has the "freedom" to kneel, sit, whatever, but the NFL is a private company. They have the right to fire, fine, etc. players who violate their codes, whatever they are. And we've seen this play out.

DanaB

climber
CO
Sep 4, 2018 - 07:16am PT
Football, boring indeed.
How much actual playing time in the 3 hours or so a game lasts? 10-15 minutes?
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Sep 4, 2018 - 07:25am PT
Words escalate to peaceful civil disobedience to bring attention to an issue, which is met by symbolic violence and destruction. We can look to history for what comes next.

Jody, please reflect on the philosophical underpinnings of the imagery you shared, and let us know if you think violent destruction is the way to create the world you want to live in. Do you see the difference between burning a symbol (which is practice for a physical threat to the subject of the symbolism) vs. peaceful protest as a means of championing change?
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 4, 2018 - 07:54am PT
Only in your fantasy, Jody.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:00am PT
A recent NBC poll showed 54% oppose NFL players kneeling as the national anthem plays.

This latest action by Nike is perfect example of well-intentioned stupidity.

Monolith - What have you done for homeless vets?

10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:00am PT
at least we know who is guilty of starting the wildfires this summer.
Trump

climber
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:04am PT
Those shoes are so fast they’re on fire! TFPU!

Johnny Manziel has a job

Yea college standout Heisman winners like he and Tebow sure can play them some football! Meanwhile poor ole Colin only outcompeted that patsy Alex Smith to take an NFL team to the super bowl.

Cause it’s a all about the football - I don’t even notice their races.

I’m right, and just to prove how righteously right I am, I’m gonna be a bigger as#@&%e than you are. This should go well.
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:05am PT
Sketch, I've given clothes, shoes, old tent, and money to a few on the street.

How bout you, buddy?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:11am PT
I don't mind the kneeling...It's the squiddly look alike that bothers me...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:21am PT
I don’t even notice their races.

My real African friends don’t even consider what Kaepernick does as ‘football’.
He sure as hell ain’t gonna sell no shoes for Nike in Africa.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 4, 2018 - 09:43am PT
Big thumbs up for Nike showing some balls and doing the right thing.

But then Colin has the owners by the balls on the legal front, I'm expecting them to settle for something in the $30-50mil range.
Slabby D

Trad climber
B'ham WA
Sep 4, 2018 - 09:51am PT
Better to burn/microwave your Nikes. Giving them to charity, where they’ll most likely end up in the hands of some poorer and possibly darker than you, is pretty much the American textbook definition of socialism.
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Sep 4, 2018 - 10:05am PT
I understand what he is complaining about but I see no action, on his part, to make a difference. All I see is someone setting race relations back a couple decades by picking the most polarizing thing possible to piss off the most amount of people that could have been the ones to help him. When he goes out in the community to help blacks start up a business, mentor and help fix the myriad of problems out there, I will have respect for him. At this point, all I see is complaining and that never works. Being a white person who has pushed for the hiring of blacks at our company, he pisses me off. Everyone in America is guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You have to make it for yourself, it is not given by simply asking for it. You have to work hard to make it happen. Or you can just complain and get nowhere.


Dick Danger

Trad climber
Lakewood, Colorado
Sep 4, 2018 - 10:06am PT
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 4, 2018 - 10:16am PT
Wait a minute.... you guys are talking about someone who plays with a ball... for a living...

Once you get off the 24x7 "news" cycle, you'll all feel much better.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 4, 2018 - 10:33am PT
Wait a minute.... you guys are talking about someone who plays with a ball... for a living...

Amen! That’s EXACTLY what my friend from Sierra Leone said! She grew up living on casava and rice while watching her country destroy itself. She got here, got an education, has a seriously good job, and is bursting with pride at seeing her daughter accepted to medical school.

Kaepernick is a punk.
DanaB

climber
CO
Sep 4, 2018 - 11:57am PT
I understand what he is complaining about but I see no action, on his part, to make a difference. All I see is someone setting race relations back a couple decades by picking the most polarizing thing possible to piss off the most amount of people that could have been the ones to help him.

Unbelievable.
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 4, 2018 - 11:58am PT
Kap should know his place and be grateful. Race relations were going just fine.
DanaB

climber
CO
Sep 4, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
Colin signed and played under a generous NFL team contract when he made the choice to first sit, then later repeatedly kneeled during the Anthem.

As an employee of the corporation/team he is expected to follow certain rules and codes of conduct.

While employed representing both team and league he chose not to follow corporate protocol, paid the price and lost his job.

How long does any employee keep their job if they repeatedly violate company policy?
IMHO, not as long as Colin kept his.

He was in the twilight of his career and at the end of his contract with the 49ers.
The team and league fulfilled their end of the contract and owe him nothing other than the pension he is entitled to when he reaches the age of 55.


Yes, sir. I hear, I obey.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 4, 2018 - 12:02pm PT
kingtut

Kaepernick is a punk.

#whitemansplaining

Tut playing the race card.

What a surprise.

Kaepernick is still a punk.

What has been accomplished since he began his quest to raise awareness. Have race relations improved? How about relations between low income black communities and the police who serve them?

A lot of noise. Little change.

Kap should know his place and be grateful. Race relations were going just fine.

BS on both counts. Has he been effective in causing change?
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 4, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
Sharpen up your sarcasm detector, Sketch.

Really Sketch?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 4, 2018 - 12:24pm PT
Kap was initially quietly sitting because he felt that the country wasn't living up to it's ideals of equality due to what he felt is unfair treatment of black people by police officers. He didn't publicize it, it was just a personal choice.

The media picked up on it and it became a big deal.

Nate Boyer an ex marine and team mate convinced Kap to kneel instead of sit because it showed respect while allowing him to make his point. Boyer championed his right of free speech and said that's what he fought for.

THAT is what this is about. You can disagree with it and say you wish he made his protest in another way. But you can't change the facts. To describe YOUR interpretation of why he did what he did and say he is trying to insult veterans or the country is cowardly and dishonest.

He has done a lot of other things to help black people, so saying he hasn't shows ignorance.

He is an employee and he does have to deal with the repercussions of his actions. But he sacrificed and did what he thought was right at the cost of his job.

Speaking poorly about him reflects more about you than him.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 4, 2018 - 01:06pm PT
Good on Nike!
atmourad

climber
Sep 4, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
Been a lurker here for years. This is my first post. I can't freaking believe it is a reply on an OT thread rather than a climbing thread but so it goes...

Regarding this:

When he goes out in the community to help blacks start up a business, mentor and help fix the myriad of problems out there, I will have respect for him. At this point, all I see is complaining and that never works.

I just wanted to point out that Kap has donated $1M+ of his own cash to grassroots organizations that do the exact work you list, and more.

http://kaepernick7.com/million-dollar-pledge-recap/

Not only has he donated his own money but he has inspired other folks to match his donations to the various orgs - http://kaepernick7.com/million-dollar-pledge/

Additionally he has also inspired many "regular" folks to donate to those orgs what they can.

I am not sure if this is threshold enough for you to "respect him", but to say that all he is doing is complaining is demonstrably false.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Sep 4, 2018 - 01:35pm PT
I am curious to know if Jody is as upset about Catholic priests f*#king little boys. I mean, as far as I know, Kaepernick has not killed any white folks or raped any white women.
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Sep 4, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
I understand what he is complaining about but I see no action, on his part, to make a difference. All I see is someone setting race relations back a couple decades by picking the most polarizing thing possible to piss off the most amount of people that could have been the ones to help him.

Unbelievable.

You don't punch someone in the face and then ask for their help. Do you realize how important the national anthem is to some people? Maybe not. There are better ways to unite people for a common cause and this is exactly how not to do it.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Sep 4, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
Hey,Dick Danger, Kapernick does believe in something,and he has sacrificed his career for it.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2018 - 01:52pm PT
Just think I could nuke this thread.

Oh the headiness of such power from just a few key strokes.

Carry on.


Susan. ;-)
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 4, 2018 - 01:54pm PT
Thanks for posting up, atmourad.
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Sep 4, 2018 - 02:01pm PT
I just wanted to point out that Kap has donated $1M+ of his own cash to grassroots organizations that do the exact work you list, and more.

Like I said, when I see him go out and help the cause, I will respect him. Any rich person can donate some money to make themselves feel good. Otherwise, he is all talk and no action. Actually, no talk and no action. Just pissing off half the nation by spitting in their eye. There are much better ways to bring people together for a common cause. His way has to be the most backward that I have seen and counterproductive. He has made things worse in my view.
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Sep 4, 2018 - 02:08pm PT
Nice PIG socks Kaepernick!
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 4, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
Again Kap didn’t set out to be decisive or even plan for this to take on the life it has.

Part of the backlash is directly due to his motivations being lied about by Trump and the right wing media.

He has succeeded in bringing a ton of attention to his cause.

Personally I agree that he could have perhaps picked a better way to protest that didn’t incite so much misunderstanding and anger. But then again it wouldn’t have gotten near the publicity this has and many of the maybe 1/3 of Americans who are offended probably don’t care or believe in his cause anyway.
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Sep 4, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
I’m more of a La Sportiva and Prana guy myself, but the kids are getting new Nike outfits and shoes tonight.

Of course those don’t cost that much so I’m gonna have to find a pair for myself, happy they don’t make climbing stuff, but a good set of road running shoes should do the trick.
atmourad

climber
Sep 4, 2018 - 02:38pm PT
Like I said, when I see him go out and help the cause, I will respect him.

What does "go out and help the cause" mean in this case? Should he consult 1 one 1 with folks to help them start their businesses? Should he tutor children himself? Would that then qualify? Would he then be "helping the cause"?

Fact of the matter is folks help with the assets that they have access to. For rich dudes that happens to be money. For folks without money that may be their time. For folks who are gifted orators that may be influencing and inspiring others. In your case you mentioned upthread it was advocating for more diverse hiring practices at your office. Labeling someone who has donated a of money to grassroots organizations and inspired thousands of others to do the same by raising awareness and leading by example as doing nothing is laughable.

I suppose Lebron James isn't really helping kids go to college either, he's just donating a ton of money to feel good about himself.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Sep 4, 2018 - 03:43pm PT
As usual, Jody's retort is an ad hominem.
atmourad

climber
Sep 4, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
Couldn't agree more, couch. Well said. My comment about Lebron was full-on sarcasm. I think what he is doing is wonderful and I have a ton of respect for him for it.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 4, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
Lynne! A great suggestion!

Just for that, I'm taking Heidi to the Dolomites & Tuscanny on Weds. With any luck at all, Jody won't call me an idiot for three weeks.
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Sep 4, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
I love the #whitemansplaining in this thread.

You go boys, and tell a man how to protest police murders. You know all about it.

I'm glad y'all are butthurt about your football being ruined.

That is the whole damn point. You want to watch 90% Black Men represent you on the field, but won't do a damn thing for them off the field.

You protest murders but you don't insult all the great cops out there at the same time. There are bad eggs everywhere. Don't put the good ones in the same group - counterproductive more so than what he wanted to acheive.

I hate football. Horrible sport for the brain.

I hired 5 blacks this year.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Sep 4, 2018 - 04:51pm PT
Well, Kaepernick believes that white cops are killing innocent blacks, to him, that's what counts. For myself. I see that cops have killed 4 people (not separated for color, 4 total) year to date in Chicago. How many black men have killed other black men in the same local year to date? Its a shocking number. Feel free to guess.

Nice deflection from the issue at hand. Are you a Republican?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 4, 2018 - 04:53pm PT
Kaepernick's career was on the downside. What exactly did sacrifice?

Ex-jock anonymity?
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
Nike and Footlocker shares took a hit today.

You know some things are more important than the almighty dollar...regardless of your perspective on this issue.
Reducing everything to dollars and cents is simplistic thinking. If it were an issue so close to your heart you know that any fiscal components related to it would pale in comparison to the morality or ethics of an issue.

Susan
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2018 - 07:45pm PT
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/05/the-57375-years-of-life-lost-to-police-violence/559835/

I quote: "Of the 1,146 and 1,092 victims of police violence in 2015 and 2016, respectively, the authors found 52 percent were white, 26 percent were black, and 17 percent were Hispanic."

Well, 26% seems high, given that the proportion of blacks in society is about 13%. The Hispanic proportion tracks pretty closely to their proportion of society, as does the white proportion. So, why the anomaly regarding blacks?

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

This data is verified and repeated all over the Internet, for what that's worth, and it does derive directly from FBI stats. The point is: "In 2013, the FBI has black criminals carrying out 38 per cent of murders, compared to 31.1 per cent for whites. The offender's race was 'unknown' in 29.1 per cent of cases. What about violent crime more generally? FBI arrest rates are one way into this. Over the last three years of data – 2011 to 2013 – 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black."

So, it's not just "myth" that blacks are indeed disproportionately perpetrating violent crimes, you know, the sorts of crimes that cops take very seriously and often with guns drawn.

Indeed, the catalyst case, Michael Brown, is about the poorest example that a "movement" could be founded upon, as "hands up, don't shoot" is a meme based upon a lie. Michael Brown was a thug, not a "gentle giant." Michael Brown made the fatal mistake of thinking that he was above the law and could even beat on a police officer with impunity. Pretty pathetic case upon which to base a "movement."

So, one has to seriously ask: Is there REALLY a problem with blacks being singled out by cops for "special condemnation" at the point of a gun? Kaepernick says merely "this [has to stop]," assuming that his vague pronoun is common currency and almost universally (except by some "racists") perceived to be true. But is it?

I quote again from channel4news, "There is evidence in the official police-recorded figures that black Americans are more likely to commit certain types of crime than people of other races. While it would be naïve to suggest that there is no racism in the US criminal justice system, victim reports don't support the idea that this is because of mass discrimination."

But, I guess that channel4news and countless other sites, including Washington Post, are all populated by racists.

What "needs to stop" is blacks killing each other and engaging in a vastly disproportionate amount of violent crime. If indeed there needs to be something like a BLM movement, it really should focus on an ACTUAL problem rather than a mythical one that doesn't withstand critical and data-based analysis.

Of course, the major issue in this sort of discussion is that "data" is interpreted. I've read many articles that take the same data and draw conclusions from it like, "...white police officers actually kill black and other minority suspects at lower rates than we would expect if killings were randomly distributed among officers of all races. But this research suggests the real problem is the entrenched set of biases and assumptions that pervade police forces, influencing the attitudes and actions of cops of all colors." (Found at: https://psmag.com/social-justice/black-cops-are-just-as-likely-as-whites-to-kill-black-suspects)

So, what we have in this article is an argument that goes like this: "The data does not support a claim of racist, white cops gunning down blacks. But we KNOW (somehow) that there is 'institutionalized racism,' so it just must be much more 'subtle' than we originally thought. Thus, it is 'entrenched bias' (even among the black cops themselves) that makes them shoot blacks at disproportionate rates."

Somehow, even when admitting that the data does not support the myth of the racist white cop, it never occurs to the researchers that the obvious answer is itself contained in the very data they are assessing: Blacks IN FACT commit a hugely disproportionate percentage of violent crimes (for whatever reasons), and, thus, they encounter cops disproportionately often and in contexts in which ANY cop (regardless of race) is going to be more amped up.

Getting to the bottom of why blacks are disproportionately violent (especially toward each other) would go further toward solving an ACTUAL problem than pretending that the problem is something that it's not and thereby trying to "fix" what isn't an actual problem.

Of course, the "why" question leads into murky waters indeed. But that's still a more productive thing to talk about than "this [has to stop]," as though the "this" is well-defined and objective fact. It is neither, and "not buying it" doesn't make one a racist.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 4, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
to be fair, mb is a white guy talking about white guy problems. it's a tough world out there.


Also, I respect MB for his casual and dispersonal human relationship with michael brown. i never knew you two were homies, eh? (imho mb you just shat pn a strangers' ropes)
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:00pm PT
madbolter1! Re the first part of your post:

I quote: "Of the 1,146 and 1,092 victims of police violence in 2015 and 2016, respectively, the authors found 52 percent were white, 26 percent were black, and 17 percent were Hispanic."

Well, 26% seems high, given that the proportion of blacks in society is about 13%. The Hispanic proportion tracks pretty closely to their proportion of society, as does the white proportion. So, why the anomaly regarding blacks?

You and channel 4 can spew all day that blacks commit more crimes for their percent of America's population, but why does that work out to the cases we see on the news of blacks getting killed by cops, for running away, or just being black?
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
Youth in disenfranchised populations. Are you suggesting otherwise?
dirtbag

climber
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
Of all the stupid right wing victimhood pity parties I’ve seen, whitey righty butthurt over kaepernick about takes the cake.

Newsflash, reactionary troglodytes: many people of color have a complicated relationship with cops, our flag, and socially compulsory displays of patriotism.

Btw: wtf does black on black crIme have to do with any of this? You might as well blame him for Benghazi (ooo there’s a dumb idea for you!)

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
to be fair, mb is a white guy talking about white guy problems. it's a tough world out there.


Also, I respect MB for his casual and dispersonal human relationship with michael brown. i never knew you two were homies, eh? (imho mb you just shat pn a strangers' ropes)

Wait. So now facts are racist?

Do I need to be his "homie" to query, "Look, you knock over a convenience store (caught on tape), assault the proprietor, then assault a cop and it's some big injustice that you get shot?"

Facts are facts. If they don't fit your agenda, perhaps change your agenda to conform with the facts.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:29pm PT
You and channel 4 can spew all day that blacks commit more crimes for their percent of America's population, but why does that work out to the cases we see on the news of blacks getting killed by cops, for running away, or just being black?

Apparently you don't believe that the media have their own agenda?

I'll say again, facts are facts. According to FBI stats (which you are happy to cite when they fit your gun-control arguments) flatly state that blacks commit a hugely disproportionate amount of violent crime.

This is not me "spewing." Facts are facts.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
Btw: wtf does black on black crIme have to do with any of this?

Ignoring your lopsided vitriol, I guess that you didn't bother to read the actual analysis on the part of the researchers writing those (and many other similar) articles.

If you commit many times the number of violent crimes as your proportion of society, you are going to encounter amped up cops a disproportionate number of times. If you then resist arrest, try to beat on them, or act like you are pulling a gun (or actually do pull a gun), you are almost certainly going to get shot.

You see, this is no surprise to the vast majority of citizens. Law abiding people (of any race) realize that if you don't want to get shot by a cop, you should....

1) Avoid doing things that draw their attention to you!

2) If you do get their attention, COMPLY with what they tell you to do!

3) If they have treated you unjustly, you address that matter AFTER you are no longer a criminal suspect.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:55pm PT
Madbolter1?? It strongly appears, you "jest" can't fit me into your little, but loquacious, mind:

I'll say again, facts are facts. According to FBI stats (which you are happy to cite when they fit your gun-control arguments) flatly state that blacks commit a hugely disproportionate amount of violent crime.

Oh Yes! I'm all for gun control, if I can get more accurate bullet placement.




fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 4, 2018 - 08:57pm PT
The "news" serves only to feed you nutcases with constant 24x7 bullsh!t that drives whatever the divisive narrative might be that day. Part of the circuses....

Journalism is dead and has been for a long time. Maybe it never really existed but is just more obvious with the 365x7x24hr droning.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Sep 4, 2018 - 09:17pm PT
And your question asking if priests screwing little boys bothered me was not?

You are a certifiable loon.

obviously the police academy didn't teach jody what an ad hominem is.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2018 - 09:17pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

It's a culture thang, not a racial thang.

Let's not conflate the two.

Now, back to your regularly-scheduled echo-chamber.

Nighty night.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 4, 2018 - 09:22pm PT
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2018 - 09:35pm PT
Oh Yes! I'm all for gun control, if I can get more accurate bullet placement.

What’s in the background of your “dinner” picture? The ghosts of those two beautiful animals you offed?

Have fun across the ocean.


Susan
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 4, 2018 - 09:54pm PT
Susan: I had put the guns of my Idaho youth away, by the time Heidi & I bough our 5-acre ranchette in 1991.

We quickly discovered, our local skunks, porcupines,mule deer, & rock chucks considered our ranchette, their ranchette.

The first major problem was during a small party a few months after we moved here, when a rabid skunk wanted to join the party. As our guests fled from the staggering skunk, I ran to find a pistol & killed the party-crasher.

Then the porcupines killed our new fruit trees, the rock chucks ate Heidi’s garden, & I started killing the animals that caused us grief. We mostly fenced out the mule deer with a 6’ high fence, which they can jump, but it offends them.

The dinner photo with the two pistols & tents in the background, is not staged. It is from a car-camping trip into “deepest Idaho” with my fellow Idaho native, Mark. We were in bear country & our pistols are part of our cultural baggage.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2018 - 10:17pm PT
Fritz...I was just joshing wid ya.
I grew up in Western Pa...a major gun and bible loving area.
There was a rite of passage...even for the girls.
8 yr old B.B. gun
12 yr old .22
16 yr old 30.06.

We used to shoot about anything that moved. Ate most of it.

Our high school had rifle club and it was about 30% girls. I was one. Our high school did extremely well in our inter scholastic meets. Could you imagine 35+ kids carrying rifles to school nowadays?

I loved venison but when I shot my first deer I knew I didn’t have it in me anymore. Well I still venison but not from my kill.

Anyway. Take care of them varmits.

Susan

MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Sep 5, 2018 - 06:58am PT
^^^^^^^

Yeah, I was thinking that myself.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 5, 2018 - 07:19am PT
We quickly discovered, our local skunks, porcupines,mule deer, & rock chucks considered our ranchette, their ranchette.

Ya know, Aussies live with far more dangerous critters

Are you sure? Mule deer attacks are on the rise. Same goes for rock chucks. They're vicious.


Be afraid.

Be very afraid.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Sep 5, 2018 - 08:45am PT
And thanks to couchmaster for pointing out that cops only shoot black children who have toy guns. What a relief to know that!
i-b-goB

Social climber
Nutty
Sep 5, 2018 - 10:51am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Sep 5, 2018 - 11:55am PT
Kaepernick is a fraud. But not for the reason everyone's got their panties in a bunch over.

He's a fraud because he claims the moral high ground while, for more $ he could ever make playing backup quarterback on a mid-level NFL team, he's associated himself with a company which contracts with brutal sweatshops in foreign countries to make their $200.00 sneakers.

Nike doesn't own these places, so they claim they are not in control of or responsible for the working conditions, but they sure do like the pricing. They've been claiming to "audit" these facilities in places like Vietnam and Indonesia since they were first outed for such practices in the 1990's. They've managed to take the issue out of the public eye, but it has changed little if at all.

From a well documented report by the Worker's Rights Consortium regarding a factory in Vietnam:

All of these practices are in violation of the labor standards set by the many colleges, universities, civic and sports organizations which purchase uniforms and equipment from Nike - many under contract.

• Abusive and unsafe management practices – including excessive production quotas, relentless pressure on workers to meet these quotas, and failure to maintain required temperature levels in factory buildings – that have resulted in numerous incidents of workers collapsing unconscious at their work stations;

• Instances of physical abuse of workers by company managers; and pervasive verbal harassment of workers by managerial personnel, including yelling, swearing, and profane insults;

• Degrading restrictions on workers’ use of the factory toilets and harassment of workers attempting to use these facilities;

• Other forms of harassment and abuse, including forbidding employees from yawning at work and threatening workers with disciplinary action if they did not follow such rules;

• Forced and excessive overtime and use of falsified records to conceal this practice;

• Other wage and hour violations, including widespread off-the-clock work both before and after work shifts, as well as during rest periods;

• Illegal recruitment fees (i.e., bribes) extracted from prospective employees by certain managers as a condition of workers having their job applications considered by the company;

• Discriminatory dismissal of pregnant employees and denial of legally mandated workplace accommodations during pregnancy;

• Other types of unlawful dismissal, including coercing workers to resign and falsifying personnel records, in order to avoid legal obligations that apply when workers are involuntarily dismissed;

• Denial of sick leave, even when ordered by a doctor;

• Additional paid leave violations, including denial of legally required leave to care for infirm family members or to mourn deceased relatives;

• Management domination of the factory’s labor union, including the installation of the factory’s senior human resources manager as the union’s executive chair, and placing other managers on the union’s executive committee; and

• Numerous additional health and safety violations, including unsafe spraying of hazardous chemical solvents, inadequate seating exposing workers to risk of musculoskeletal injury, padlocking of some exit doors during work hours, unsafe food handling in the factory canteen, and temperatures in factory buildings in excess of the legal limit of 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 Celsius), even during the cooler part of the year.


madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 5, 2018 - 12:05pm PT
^^^ No, it's for the reasons you stated above AND for the reason that some have their panties in a bunch.

Kaepernick is a poor representative of this "movement," just as the majority of the catalyst cases are poor exemplars of the "problem" that the "movement" seeks to redress.

These issues don't invalidate the movement itself. I mean, it would be fallacious to say, "They can't make a good case, so the case is crap."

A bad argument in favor of a conclusion doesn't make the conclusion false; that has to be independently demonstrated. What it does justify, however, is a response something like, "If this is the best you've got in favor of your case, well, count me unconvinced."
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 5, 2018 - 12:23pm PT
I don't think Kaepernick is fraud just for being a Nike spokesman. After all, the poorest people in the world are not sweat shop employees, but rather people who live in societies where people are completely cut off from the modern economy. So while working in a sweat shop sucks, it's probably better than the most likely alternative (not working at all).

But Kaepernick is apparently a football fraud. Elway offered him a chance to play for the Broncos, but he he turned it down. (Presumably he still had sufficient skills to function at a 2nd or 3rd string level). Seems like Kap's football skills started declining at an unusually early age, and he was smart enough to instead of just retiring at an early age since he didn't want a backup roll, to cook up a scheme to make it seem like he's a victim of the Man, and then cash in on that. Pretty clever actually.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/17/sport/john-elway-colin-kaepernick-broncos-spt-intl/index.html
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
Sep 5, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
One thing El Kaep™ has going for him is that he'll be remembered more for his protesting than having the distinction of being the only quarterback in NFL history to have been sacked more times in a game (5) than his total passing yards (4).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/12/04/colin-kaepernick-sets-nfl-record-for-quarterback-futility-in-loss-to-bears/?utm_term=.2dd0c8753781
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Sep 5, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
So while working in a sweat shop sucks, it's probably better than the most likely alternative (not working at all).

I guess that makes it all okay then.

How is it that Addidas and Reebok do just fine without contracting with companies which abuse their workers?

Do you think Kaepernick is unaware of Nike's track record in this regard?

He's just another hypocrite exploiting the race issue for his own enrichment.
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Sep 5, 2018 - 12:58pm PT
While Kaepernick wasn't the greatest QB, he also wasn't terrible. He made it to one Super Bowl and one NFC championship, which is more than most QBs not named Brady.
Most of the QBs in the NFL are pretty middle of the road. While Kaep might have been a little on the downside of things, there's also no reason to believe a QB with his background wouldn't have seen more interest than has been apparent.
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Sep 5, 2018 - 01:22pm PT
The timing of his donation speaks volumes as to what kind of person he is. I bet he was really torn giving up a million dollars but felt like he had to if he was ever going to be considered to play again. Now that nobody wants him, he is really upset and needs to sue. True colors have been shown.

I am still waiting for him to do something or say something positive on his wonderful platform. He could choose to unite people with his platform but all I see is his choice of division.

Now he has sided with a company that oppresses people with slave labor just like what he supposedly is not standing for so he can benefit financially. Black people in America are treated 10 times better than the workers for Nike. What a d o u c h e.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 5, 2018 - 01:28pm PT
Getting to the bottom of why blacks are disproportionately violent (especially toward each other) would go further toward solving an ACTUAL proble

Wow. “blacks are disproportionately violent”.

You act like you are making a well reasoned argument based on facts but you ignore the facts that black people face systemic racism so it’s harder for them to get a good eduction, jobs, or upward mobility, schools are funded locally so schools in underprivileged black areas are often terrible, crime in low income black and white localities happen at about the same rate (hint this is the main cause of higher crime rates among black people because more of them are poor, under educated and don’t have the same opportunities, even compared to poor white people) and you ignore that there are more police in poor black areas compared to poor white ones, black people are more likely to be arrested, the charges given are more severe, and the sentences are longer. These are all facts you ignore because they don’t fit YOUR narrative.

Maybe you can enlighten us why you think “blacks are disproportionately violent”

Sure there are individuals who can rise above poor circumstances and succeed (and another individual could have all the advantages and end up a criminal) but when you look at the communities as a whole black people have significant disadvantages they have to overcome.
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Sep 5, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
Maybe ask them why the dad starts the family but doesn’t stick around for the family. A strong family will create a successful person. A lot of black guys will not stick around. The majority of people that I see that are successful came from a strong family that stuck together. Kap should tell his race about family bonds and how that helps each other succeed.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 5, 2018 - 02:36pm PT
You act like you are making a well reasoned argument based on facts but you ignore the facts that black people face systemic racism so it’s harder for them to get a good eduction, jobs, or upward mobility, schools are funded locally so schools in underprivileged black areas are often terrible, crime in low income black and white localities happen at about the same rate (hint this is the main cause of higher crime rates among black people because more of them are poor, under educated and don’t have the same opportunities, even compared to poor white people) and you ignore that there are more police in poor black areas compared to poor white ones, black people are more likely to be arrested, the charges given are more severe, and the sentences are longer. These are all facts you ignore because they don’t fit YOUR narrative.

Wowwww... okay, so these are "facts," huh?

Actually, they are VERY contentious interpretations of false-cause arguments based upon decades of failed government (read: Dem) policies designed to "help" them (read: make them ever more dependent upon the Democratic party).

Maybe you can enlighten us why you think “blacks are disproportionately violent”

Because it's a simple equation. You see, you just take the proportion of blacks in society. You take the violent crime stats from the FBI. And then you compare the proportion of violent crime that is committed by blacks with the proportion of blacks in society. And, viola! You see a huge disparity in the proportion of violent crime by race, with blacks far and away disproportionately the perps.

And your little rant above doesn't even contemplate the fact that VAST amounts of money have been thrown at "the problem." So, what's your "solution," other than to throw yet more money at "the problem?"

While you're working that up, look at the latest black-on-black shooting spree, this one in San Bernardino. As you peruse the media "take" on the event, a critical thinker will note two things:

1) None of the news outlets specifies that this was black-on-black. None of them specifies that it was obviously gang-bangers shooting at each other.

2) There were MANY witnesses (blacks), and without exception, they refuse to cooperate with the police to bring the perps to justice.

Now, of course you'll just cast this as another "poor, scared, downtrodden black folks" event. But eventually you have to realize that your forever fallback position of "systemic racism" isn't sustainable as the forever excuse.

You focus on "outcomes" without being willing to even contemplate character and lifestyle choices. Dems have done blacks NO favors by encouraging dependency and a perpetual victim mentality!

You apparently didn't watch this, so I'll post it again for your convenience.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 5, 2018 - 02:45pm PT
Geez MB, why not come right and admit that blacks were better off with slavery
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 5, 2018 - 02:54pm PT
While Kaep might have been a little on the downside of things, there's also no reason to believe a QB with his background wouldn't have seen more interest than has been apparent.

Look, he got an offer to play for the Broncos, albeit at a lower salary than he was getting which reflected his notably diminished skills. It was still an offer for more far more for one year's play than most people will earn in a lifetime.

He didn't take it, choosing instead to sit out and hoke up a 2nd career as a fake social activist / lawsuit plaintiff / Nike pitchman.

If you like him not withstanding that, no problem, it's a free country and maybe in the modern world a clever shyster is a more suitable role model than a standard jock.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 5, 2018 - 02:56pm PT
Geez MB, why not come right and admit that blacks were better off with slavery

Oh, screw yourself. I'm so sick of that retarded fall-back perspective: "Either you agree that we owe all blacks everything they could ever dream up to ask for, or you're a racist."

If you think about life in general at that level, then you're flat-out stupid.

The problem is nuanced, and government has played no small part in screwing things up! You'll never dream to critically analyze failed Democratic policies. You'll never tumble to the fact that the "war on drugs" was an attempt to keep blacks down, and we ALL suffer with that legacy today.

And you'll never tumble to the FACT that blacks are divided into two cultures today, as you can see in the above video. LOOK at the audience! Are those the people you think are all downtrodden and need yet more governmental assistance???

Those are people who want government to get out of the way!
Roadie

Trad climber
moab UT
Sep 5, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
I do not stand for the anthem. I haven't since Kap started setting a good example. I couldn't care less about football while I couldn't care more about equality.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 5, 2018 - 04:14pm PT
As I expected MB you ignore everything that undercuts your arguments, don't take into account another perspectives, and only seek to convince that you are right and other people are wrong.

You didn't directly answer my question (Maybe you can enlighten us why you think “blacks are disproportionately violent”) when I said low income blacks and whites commit crimes at about the same rate.

But you did indirectly answer it with this:
without being willing to even contemplate character and lifestyle choices

It's statements like that that can make people think you are racist. It has nothing to do with "agreeing we owe all blacks everything". It's assigning character traits and lifestyle choices to a race as a whole.

Do you have the bravery to really look at this in a new light and see my point? Or will you just argue it away?

I agree that the problem is nuanced, and govt. failures on both sides contribute to the problem. But poor black (and white) people should get more assistance (not giveaways) to help them make their lives better, e.g. the most important IMO is more equal education. Teach a man to fish and all that.

I also feel most of the examples of supposed racist police actions against black people are the fault of the suspect doing something wrong, and the police overreacting (i.e. both at fault). But there have been examples of clear abuse by the police. A cop was just convicted of murder for killing an unarmed black teen, and the cop who used an illegal choke hold which resulted in the death of man selling loose cigarettes. Kap made a choice to bring attention to what he felt is an abuse of power, injustice, and a lack of equality in the system (whether true or not) it's not up to anyone else to decide what his cause is. I agree that there's other bigger issues that someone could address, but again that's my choice of what I would want to focus on. If someone close to you died of a rare disease you may focus on that disease because you have a personal reason to want to address it, even though other diseases my be much more prevalent and perhaps easier to cure.
A Essex

climber
Sep 5, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
number of black people that care what Supertopo thinks:

0.0
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 5, 2018 - 05:42pm PT
I don't think it serves any useful purpose to call someone a racist. Very few people think they are racist. All it does is make them defensive and convince them they are the right and the people calling them that is a loon. I think it's fine to call out behavior that could be interpreted as racist, and hopefully if that person has an open mind they will see why.

It's ridiculous to think there still isn't systemic racism in this country. Many African Americans are descendants of slaves, and that history influences thinking on all sides. They are a minority, and even that is enough to cause some people to fear and not understand them. They face discrimination from some people in jobs, education, etc. It's gotten better over the years. The civil rights movement. Electing Obama. But there will always be racists all we can do is try to keep getting better. Unfortunately things have reversed course big time the last few years with Trump (when the president says there are good people on both sides and one side is white supremacists that encourages racism)

What I learn when I talk to different people is almost everybody is just like you and me, at least their basic drives and they way they think, at least before it's been influenced by their environment. I'm not ready to assign any traits to someone until I've had a chance to talk to them because people are individuals and have had very different experiences.

I love the Anthem. I choose to stand and sing along. The country has been very good to me. I love the imagery of the battle in the first verse. I love that it's hard to sing and love hearing someone do a good job and feel pity when they struggle. But I also know the negatives about it. That the music is based on an old English ode to drinking and sex. NTTAWWT. That the third verse as mentioned contains some awful words. So I understand why someone would not feel about it the same way I do and I afford them their freedom to feel that way. I have a lot of veterans in my family and I never got the impression growing up that it was only about the military or veterans. I always thought it was about the country and it remaining the home of the free and the brave as long as the banner was waving.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Sep 5, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
the Fet:
Many African Americans are descendants of slaves, and that history influences thinking on all sides.
I agree, racism is real. It's mostly in the minds of both blacks and whites.

They face discrimination from some people in jobs, education, etc.
I disagree.
It seems that I live in a world that is different from a world described in progressives' propaganda.
In my world all big corporations have targets how many women, blacks, gays, disabled people etc. to have at each level of company's hierarchy.
As a result women, blacks etc. are hired and promoted ahead of white males of the same skills and accomplishments.
It's a preferential treatment of blacks rather than discrimination.

At least according to my experience this progressive propaganda has nothing to do with our realities.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 5, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
50% of Black Americans happen to live in poverty

^This is a lie.^

Quit lying.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 5, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
It seems that I live in a world that is different from a world described in progressives propaganda.
In my world all big corporations have targets how many women, blacks, gays, disabled people etc. to have at each level of company's hierarchy.
As a result women, blacks etc. are hired and promoted ahead of white males of the same skills and accomplishments.
It's a preferential treatment of blacks rather than discrimination.

At least according to my experience this progressive propaganda has nothing to do with our realities.

You do live in a different world I guess. I worked for 2 big corporations and there were no targets for minority hiring. To say all big corporations have targets is untrue. The hiring choice was at the discretion of the hiring manager. In my experience they picked the best (most qualified, best interview, etc.) person for the job. However if that person was racist or sexist it would certainly influence their decisions. Other corporations have targets (not quotas) but they still expect the hiring manager to pick the best person, it's a business after all and the bottom line is king. Companies will try to meet their targets to hire a workforce that is similar to the population in their area, e.g. if there's 30% African Americans locally they will try to hire at least 30% African Americans to avoid lawsuits/audits from the US EEOC. If they can't find enough qualified minorities they carefully document that to protect themselves.

What big corporations have this preferential treatment of black Americans?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Sep 5, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
large businesses only employ about 38 percent of the private sector workforce while small businesses employ 53 percent of the workforce. In fact, over 99 percent of employing organizations are small businesses and more than 95 percent of these businesses have fewer than 10 employees.

 Edward is right above

 now let's see those large corporate "rules" that dictate proportional hiring please?

name the companies and post links to their human resources employment "rules" please
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Sep 5, 2018 - 07:01pm PT
speaking of education who controls those states that score lowest on intelligence testing?
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Sep 5, 2018 - 09:36pm PT
55 years isn't enough time?

As you can see from this thread race relations take awhile...

carry on
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 5, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Sep 5, 2018 - 09:45pm PT
Whose face is that? I can't tell if it is me or some other white dude. We all look the same to me.

Funniest thing I've read on ST in awhile
thanks for the laugh!
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Sep 5, 2018 - 10:17pm PT
Donald loves the undereducated.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 5, 2018 - 11:40pm PT
You know, its Rich People that f*#ked over Detroit and the rest of the Rust Belt, right?

Marx explained all this in great detail 150 years ago! This sh!t doesn’t happen overnight!
Aren’t you comrades ever going to believe it?

I’ve got a twenty that Kaepernick thinks Karl is Groucho’s uncle.
Degaine

climber
Sep 6, 2018 - 12:22am PT
blahblah wrote:
clever shyster

F*#k you.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 6, 2018 - 05:44am PT
kingtut

Sep 5, 2018 - 10:15pm PT

What kind of a person blames poor people for factories leaving for China and leaving Detroit with nothing?

You know, its Rich People that f*#ked over Detroit and the rest of the Rust Belt, right? It ain't the poor people that moved the factory.

You know that, right?

You're one of these deep thinkers that blames poor people for the housing crisis in 2008 too I bet? All those poor people took advantage of those poor rich bastards at Goldman Sachs LOL?

You are the perfect tool for smarter and richer men that so easily play you.

Nice straw man. Props for consistency.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 6, 2018 - 08:09am PT
It never cease to amaze me how some people can look at an issue in such as one sided way. They can convince themselves of the most illogical things to stay in their paradigm.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 6, 2018 - 08:24am PT
It never cease to amaze me how some people can look at an issue in such as one sided way. They can convince themselves of the most illogical things to stay in their paradigm.

Standard fare for these political threads.

Myopia abounds.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 6, 2018 - 08:54am PT
Some solid points and lots of BS.

The great majority of cops are not racist. The biggest problem IMO is that the blue wall does cover up and protect their own sometimes, that's to be expected when you put your lives on the line for each other, but they need to know when to draw the line.

Blaming things on welfare is ridiculous. By far the biggest federal spending is on medicaid, how does providing health care to poor people hurt them? Then it's food stamps. Then earned income tax credit.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Sep 6, 2018 - 09:12am PT
And yes, we can thank the Dem policies for this regressive nature.

you can also thank the current Republican Senate, House, and President for voting to continue to fund "welfare", but that would point out your own hypocrisy so you did not
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Sep 6, 2018 - 09:28am PT
And yes, we can thank the Dem policies for this regressive nature.

you can also thank the current Republican Senate, House, and President for voting to continue to fund "welfare", but that would point out your own hypocrisy so you did not
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Sep 6, 2018 - 10:08am PT
Best thing to come out of Detroit is Ted Nugent.

Negative. The best thing to come out of Detroit is MC5.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 6, 2018 - 10:11am PT
Jolly you have some points but you hypocrisy is deep. The issues are multifaceted and the best solutions will come from addressing many sides.

The point was assistance that says you can’t do this on your own. That concept is the issue.

That’s conservative propodanda. Assistance doesn’t say that. Does it say that to white people?

My point is rather than creating a society where we take responsibility, we find someway to blame something. That does not create progress. It’s regressive. Look in your own life. The times you blamed sh#t for not getting what you wanted. Did you get closer to what you wanted? Likely not. You only get there when you stop blaming, take responsibility, and choose to do better.

That’s a valid point. But there also is a system in place with problems in it. Of course everyone wants to blame the other side because that’s easier.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 6, 2018 - 10:15am PT
It's statements like that that can make people think you are racist. It has nothing to do with "agreeing we owe all blacks everything". It's assigning character traits and lifestyle choices to a race as a whole.

You READ my statement as "assigning character traits and lifestyle choices to a race as a whole," but if you charitably read what I've posted on this thread, you'd see that it couldn't possibly be an accurate read.

For example, I've TWICE posted the Chris Rock clip in which he uses pretty good humor to argue that it's NOT about race; it's about culture. So, already, with that alone, you should detect that my perspective is far more granular than some idiotic "assigning character traits and lifestyle choices to a race as a whole." Give me a break!

I've also repeatedly stated that it is a small subset of blacks that have chosen a thug lifestyle and that it is THOSE blacks who are inordinately violent, thus skewing the stats for the whole race.

I pointed out that Rock's audience is composed of blacks that will almost certainly never have a police encounter in which they end up shot.

This has nothing to do with RACE, and it is race-baiters (like Kap) that are turning it into such a cluster-fornication.

The issue we're discussing on this thread concerns a subset of a subculture. And that subset DOES have an inordinate number of police encounters, sometimes ending badly for the perp, primarily because, like the San Bernardino shooters, they embrace a thug, gangland lifestyle. And, yes, blacks that embrace that culture are pretty much doomed to a short and dismal life.

Not to mention that they skew that stats.

But you can't sustain the claim that poverty DETERMINES these outcomes. You can't sustain the claim that character and choice play no significant role. You can't sustain the claim that government has not screwed the pooch with its "social programs."

Yes, we can talk about what might be done about the plight of impoverished blacks in inner cities. But that conversation has nowhere to go as long as any disagreement produces the instantaneous default position: "You're a racist."

And when that attack is deployed so instantly and trivially, it quickly gets deflated in value and force.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Sep 6, 2018 - 10:30am PT
Dude, you're of course not a racist, you are simply a small, petty, little, man. . .kind of like Trump. . .
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Sep 6, 2018 - 10:49am PT
Ross Perot was correct to say NAFTA was a giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the US to cheap labor markets. We have lost well over 35 million jobs because of NAFTA. Those could have been jobs for a lot of the less educated or not as book smart (both white and black). Both sides of the isle supported NAFTA. Both of Perot's opponents (George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton) argued that NAFTA would create jobs in the U.S. because of business expansion and they were both wrong or telling a lie. Just recently, Obama wanted to join the TPP and only he knew why but Hillary and Trump were both against. Maybe this was the only way he could get Obamacare pushed through (a gift to big corporations for allowing Obamacare). So there you have it, both parties do not have our best interests in their agendas and they all sell out. I am not a person to pick parties but I do like seeing the trade deals being re-negotiated. Maybe we can bring a few of the 35 million lost jobs back to give those unemployed or lower class the decency of work and good pay. Can you imagine how much worse poverty areas would have gotten if the TPP would have passed. I have to give Trump credit, he is the first person in a long time trying to bring jobs back for the lower class blacks and whites. What is he getting for this, I can't think of anything except he simply may have a good heart. We need leaders who will try to find ways to get jobs to the poor and maybe with some social leaders combined, they will find a way to prosper. We should focus on our own country and show the world how to prosper instead of giving it away at the detriment of our less fortunate. It is not Nationalism like some say, it is trying to be a good role model so others can follow suit. The less able to adapt will always be hurt the most. We need true leaders who care about everyone, not themselves. If there are only 10 jobs available and 20 people, guess who will get the jobs. The most eager, hard working and skilled will get the jobs and unfortunately, the other 10 will need to fight it out. Maybe this is where the crime comes in.
A Essex

climber
Sep 6, 2018 - 10:53am PT
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Sep 6, 2018 - 11:43am PT
Ross Perot was correct to say NAFTA was a giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the US to cheap labor markets. We have lost well over 35 million jobs because of NAFTA. Those could have been jobs for a lot of the less educated or not as book smart (both white and black). Both sides of the isle supported NAFTA. Both of Perot's opponents (George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton) argued that NAFTA would create jobs in the U.S. because of business expansion and they were both wrong or telling a lie. Just recently, Obama wanted to join the TPP and only he knew why but Hillary and Trump were both against.

Even without NAFTA, most of those low-skilled assembly type jobs would have disappeared anyway. Perhaps a little slower.

When a given factory making widgets relocates to northern Mexico, the losses are apparent. When farmers have bigger markets for their exports, the benefit of free trade is harder to see.

Although Trump is working very hard to educate Americans about the benefits of open markets, especially for farmers.

NAFTA created winners and losers, but overall it has benefited more Americans than it has harmed.

NAFTA has made the North American car industry more efficient and competitive.

With a protectionist model where nobody could import cars or car parts into the US, consumers would pay thousands of dollars more, for crappier cars, and US car companies would not be able to compete internationally.

Trump and Hillary campaigned against TPP because a lot of naive voters were against TPP. Just because some swing voters are against something, doesn't mean it is a bad idea.

Trump seems to be a true believer when it comes to protectionism and thinking that trade has to be a zero-sum game.

When Hillary said she was against TPP, I didn't actually believe her.
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Sep 6, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
I don't understand how someone can say we are better off with imbalanced trade when we are losing $500 billion per year due to the trade imbalance. Any household can tell you that it won't survive if you have more money going out than coming in. It simply does not work. At worst case it needs to be even. Best case, you are taking advantage of someone else. It should be a barter system or nothing. Otherwise, you are destroying somebodies way of life. I guess you don't care about the people that lost there jobs in the US due to manufacturers leaving for slave labor in other counties. I guess you condone sweat shops as long as you get cheap goods as your neighbor loses his job. You are basically saying you are okay with slave labor and beating the common man down.

We know where you stand August West. 35 million lost jobs is a real number and not made up. I have not seen any benefit and you offer no explanation. $500 billion is net loss after you look at gains and losses so your math does not add up.
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Sep 6, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
Some areas of the world should not be develop if they don't have the basic necessities. When trade comes along using 90% of all the petroleum usage per day to prop up an area of the world that can't sustain itself you have created a huge imbalance and not very sustainable. It is destined to fail into an apocalypse. I'd rather have a small war but I doubt that would happen. We could lend a hand but not at the expense of cutting off half our population and let them figure out how to survive. There are better ways to prevent wars.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 6, 2018 - 05:49pm PT
Power Crux

Sep 6, 2018 - 03:38pm PT

a trade deficit is not losing money

go to the grocery store with $20

come home with zero and a bag of groceries

you didn't lose money....you used it to get something you wanted

fair enough that not everyone gets this

pathetic that our businessman president doesn't

Where'd you get the $20?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 6, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
pathetic that our businessman president doesn't


And you get yer economic advice from a comedian? HaHaHaHa!
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Sep 6, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
Jolly Roger:
.. policies put in place by dems that literally tell minorities, especially blacks, that they can’t make it without gov’t help. Affirmative action was racist, is racist. It says you are not equal, we will help. That does not create the pride necessary to better oneself. We have 40 years of theses policies, and there has been no improvement. The gov’t can’t improve your life. You have to improve it.

The messages would be better if people actually took the lead and talked about the real issues, and said this rioting, burning, victim mentality is a crutch. Give them leadership to better themselves. Set an example. Kap is now just another victim. This mentality is a cancer, and not one that creates a better society.
Jolly Roger, thank you for injecting a bit of common sense into this discussion.

Racism is real.
Currently racism is mainly in the minds of blacks.
Fixing this issue is not easy.
If we want to live in a more peaceful and more equal society we need to stop propaganda of racism by BLM, Dems, progressive MSM and start working on finding a way out of this hole.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Sep 6, 2018 - 06:43pm PT
Please go back into the hole that you've crawled out of, yes racism is only in the minds of black people. What a load of, crap. . .
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 7, 2018 - 08:00am PT
Power Crux

Sep 6, 2018 - 07:06pm PT
I get the $20 from my parents

This explains so much.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Sep 7, 2018 - 11:36am PT
By far the biggest welfare programs in the USA are subsidies and tax breaks for the rich and corporations.
There are millions of them.
They add up to perhaps 1/2 of the federal budget.
That's right: if we cut all the give-aways to the rich, the budget could be balanced, just like it would have been under Clinton's plan, until bush junior and trumpy screwed it up.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
Kaepernick is like Al Bundy....

Once a football "great,"

Now just a shoe salesman.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 7, 2018 - 01:18pm PT
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2018 - 01:28pm PT
^^^ Okay, I died laughing.

Resurrected just long enough to say, "Well played, sir."
Eddie

Trad climber
San Francisco
Sep 7, 2018 - 02:38pm PT
This thread pains me. It was bad enough to find out how many people on here are sexist in the other thread, but now to find out that so many people on here are racist too?

After so many years on here, I suppose with really only having climbing in common, this truly scares me.

One liners, jokes, awful logic, and even ridiculous insults are part of the fun and style of this forum, but I'd hope for people to be more serious when something this serious is happening. Or maybe people are being serious, in which case I'm even more scared.

Nothing particularly insightful or inflammatory to add. Just very very sad.

(and work on your empathy, everyone!)

ExfifteenExfifteen

climber
Sep 7, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
Oh, just stick your head back in the sand then...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
so many people on here are racist too?

...and even ridiculous insults

Notice a juxtaposition here?

Does calling somebody a racist qualify as a "ridiculous insult"?

On these threads, the term has gotten entirely deflated, because it means all and only, "Boo-hoo... you don't agree with me."

I'd hope for people to be more serious when something this serious is happening.

Like Kap himself, it's likely that you have a problem defining that all-important vague pronoun.

And, depending upon how you'd define it, many of us would not consider "this" to be serious at all, particularly given all the other social issues clamoring for attention.

I guess that makes us "racists."

So now we're full-circle, back to your "ridiculous insults" line.

So, I guess what's really "sad" for you is that everybody can't just automatically agree with you.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 7, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
Madbolter1, I appreciate your clarification. I read your statement at face value. I think it’s incumbent on the writer to be clear, not the reader to interpret the text. All the time I add: “often” “many” “some” when writing here, even though it’s just an Internet forum because I don’t want my words misconstrued, and I honestly believe most people are good and to lump everyone of a certain political persuasion together is wrong. I’m a centrist and all the time conservatives lump me in with the most left wing people because it’s an easy straw man to rail against instead of listening and examining what I say and their beliefs.

But you can't sustain the claim that poverty DETERMINES these outcomes. You can't sustain the claim that character and choice play no significant role. You can't sustain the claim that government has not screwed the pooch with its "social programs."

Yes, but poverty has a greater determination on these outcomes than race. Character and choice play a significant role but you have to be really careful when you state that because as I said if you don't you basically assign character and choice to race or other diverse population. Social programs help much more than they hurt. There were certain programs that were terrible. E.g. people getting more money for not having a job than having a job encouraged them to not work. But we’ve had several rounds of “welfare” reform. As mentioned largest programs are health care (by far), food stamps, Earned Income Tax Credit (this is a great way to encourage people to work by lowering their tax liability).

I don’t buy the whole if you help people out if makes them feel less capable B.S. they know they just don’t make much money and many things, especially health care are too much for them to afford. I had very little money when I was young and I now I know it’s very true that the more money you have the easier it is to get ahead. You have time for additional education, you can afford child care, healthy food, etc.

Jolly Roger,

In the black community specifically, since that is what this CK sh#t is about, i think the following would be productive.

Address the fatherless households
Create an avenue to create jobs in the neighborhoods.
maybe create programs that open access to loans for small businesses.
embolden family values
**I agree with the above
denounce reverse racism
**Reverse racism is such a minor consideration I don’t know why anyone cares about it. Philosophically I’m against affirmative action type programs, but practically they are trying to make up for many decades of discrimination and we still have a ways to go. And why would the black community care about that. They will focus on what matters to them, not what bothers some white people.
create leaders that will show it can be done
kill affirmative action
**Again why would they kill a program they think may help make up for decades of discrimination?
access to trade schools
create a work ethic mentality
whatever else....
deal with drug violations equitable
**I agree with the above.
Hispanics and Asians weren’t slaves in the US like the over 10 million African people stolen from their continent and brought over. They weren’t classified as 3/5 of a person. White people have been slaves too (Slavic people for one) but not in the US. Racism rears its ugly head against many types of peoples but African Americans have a uniquely terrible history in the US with it. I agree that some hip hop culture and gangs contribute to the problem of police encounters with black people but that’s just part of the story.

I agree that success and what life offers you is more the result of your efforts than anything, but in general it is harder for someone who faces discrimination. I know some of my minority friends have been really hurt by it, even when it happens infrequently or is just a snide comment. The feeling that some people in your country don’t think you’re good enough must be awful. That’s far more degrading and demeaning than receiving govt. assistance because you don’t make much money.

BLM wasn’t formed for addressing black on black violence. Although I agree it is a bigger problem it’s different. A single example of unjustified police force is different and troubling because it strikes at the heart of two of the core principles of America: equality and justice. A government doing something unjust to its citizens is far more troubling than from another citizen IMO. Like freedom of speech. Your employer can tell you that you can’t say something on the job, but the government cannot.

It would be great if there was a more visible organization to help communities with citizen on citizen violence like BLM, but that would be a different purpose.

TradMike,
I don't understand how someone can say we are better off with imbalanced trade when we are losing $500 billion per year due to the trade imbalance. Any household can tell you that it won't survive if you have more money going out than coming in. It simply does not work. At worst case it needs to be even.

You should read more about it. There are benefits to having a trade imbalance. Chief among them is it allows the US to have the world’s reserve currency (since we buy more than we sell people in other countries hold US dollars), which keeps the value of the dollar high, and it means other countries’ invest in safe, low interest (barely above inflation) short term US govt. bonds. This additional money can allow the US to invest that money in higher paying long term investments, infrastructure, education, etc. that makes us more competitive and gives us a higher quality of life. But the reps are using the additional borrowing for tax cuts skewed to the wealthy (short term economic boost at long term cost) and they brought us to the brink of a default which throws a wrench in this system (increasing interest rates and shaking confidence in the security of holding US bonds which should be the safest investment there is).

Oil is traded is US Dollars and that along with our being the reserve currency is a huge part of why the US dollar is high and we’re in a leadership position. It’s really scary to think about but China and other countries would love the mid east countries to use the yuan or the Euro for this and this would be extremely bad for our economy. I'm not an economist but I know that it’s complex and things could go very badly for the US if we aren’t smart.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 7, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
I heard part of an interview with a guy who specializes in protests during the anthem. It's not just Kap. For example the guys who raised their fists during the 1968 Olympics. He made a good point that during the anthem which is showing pride in a country that's devoted to equality and justice is a perfect time to point out when there are problems with equality and justice. So some people may be very offended, but for the people protesting it's the opportunity to say let's live up to these ideals.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
Good points, Jolly Roger.

Fet, "Madbolter1, I appreciate your clarification. I read your statement at face value. I think it’s incumbent on the writer to be clear, not the reader to interpret the text."

Well, that seems a bit weak to me. "Being clear" in a hostile environment amounts to WoTs that people also don't tolerate. And if you had read even the last page of posts to "catch up," my intention was pretty dang clear.

Frankly, it's getting to be a flat-out joke how tritely the accusation of "racist" is bandied about these days. I mean, you make my point for me when you say that poverty is more causative than race. As I've been saying, this is about (sub) culture rather than race. So the endless accusations of "racist" are laughably misplaced.

Now if you want to take the next step in the argument, which is what you seem to say in your post, that blacks have more of a poverty problem than whites, so that is why they are having proportionately more "negative" police encounters, I would say that I don't buy it.

But that's an argument for another day.

In any case, as I said repeatedly upthread, Kap (and his ilk) are determined to "take a stand" on a vague pronoun. And until that pronoun is cleared up, it's mighty hard to see "this" as anything but self-service on the part of a failing QB who is then quick to climb into bed with a big corporation to which "this" could flatly and obviously be applied.
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Sep 7, 2018 - 08:21pm PT
^^ Wow. Just wow.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 7, 2018 - 08:32pm PT
Certainly not all conservatives are racist while some progressives are, but, let’s be honest, a much higher percentage of conservatives are racist although they will protest mightily that they are not.
Score one for Nike...should be a wake up call for the clueless owners who don’t understand that the only thing that doesn’t change is the fact that there will be change....adapt or become irrelevant.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 7, 2018 - 08:33pm PT
meaningles non sequitors

meaningles non sequitors

meaningles non sequitors

meaningles non sequitors

meaningles non sequitors


glspi

climber
Sep 7, 2018 - 09:42pm PT
"I am racist because I disagree with the actions of a black." -Jody

How in the world can you type that out and not see your blatant racism? You do know we are all humans on this earth, right? You make a LOT of generalization's based on a race, and almost exclusively talk about a specific group of people as lesser than human.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Sep 7, 2018 - 09:58pm PT
Wow, I'm truly sorry, all this time I just thought that you were, stupid, I was wrong. . .df

Edit, "a black" says it all, not a human or person, a black. . .
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Sep 7, 2018 - 10:15pm PT
I have never demonstrated racism.
racism doesn't have to be overt. It can be implied, i.e. a perception.
okay, whatever

climber
Sep 8, 2018 - 07:53am PT
With the sort of reactionary anger that Jody exhibits in essentially every one of his posts/responses here online, I wonder what kind of cop he was. The police that I know are very aware that they need to be very even-tempered, even given the confusing and angering and sometimes dangerous demands of the job. Jody does not seem to fit that mold, at least on-line, though perhaps he does in person... I've never met him. But he's retired now, evidently, and just a right-wing Supertopo ranter, for better or worse.
okay, whatever

climber
Sep 8, 2018 - 08:07am PT
All right, I'll back off and not judge, since I don't know you personally at all. I just think that all of us are more likely to be heard, whatever our viewpoints, if we express ourselves calmly and intelligently, and consider the fact that others may think differently than we do, even as we express our opinions. And genuinely listen... not just to those who do think like you, but to others who do not, as well.
okay, whatever

climber
Sep 8, 2018 - 08:13am PT
And I agree that simply putting you into a racist bucket, without knowing you, is not fair at all.... But I also do think that considered responses, in which you make your argument in a thoughtful way, rather than just offering up an angry rejection of someone else's viewpoint, is a much more effective way to go in debating these sorts of issues. I mean, seriously, I'm a 64 year old adult, and I used to think the Three Stooges were funny in my childhood, but calling someone a "knucklehead" in what is hopefully a reasoned debate seems out of place. Insults are for children.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 8, 2018 - 08:25am PT
Kap kneels to say he doesn’t think the US is living up to its ideals of justice and equality. The question is then do white police officers treat black people differently because of their race? I would guess that most police officers treat them fairly. But we know racism and prejudice exist and is a factor some of these encounters. Just last night a white police woman came home to the wrong apartment saw the black guy who lived there and shot him dead. Did race play into it? That is the question many want to look at.

When you perpetuate the distractions from that question: Kap is insulting veterans, black people bring it on themselves, Kap is washed up and he’s just doing it for attention, etc it comes across as racist or at least insensitive because you are not listening to what they are saying with empathy, you are just saying what they are concerned with doesn’t exist or it’s their fault.
okay, whatever

climber
Sep 8, 2018 - 08:32am PT
Oh, I think it's perfectly reasonable to criticize a black person or a white person, or whomever, if you have a genuine point to make that has nothing to do with their race or color. I'm mellower than that, and accept that people, including in elected positions of power, will not necessarily see life and public policy as I do. I find that holding my tongue is a better approach, generally... people you think you dislike often turn out to be people you do like, given some time and shared experiences. Though I suppose I'm not holding my tongue here :^)
Trump

climber
Sep 8, 2018 - 08:38am PT
All these self righteous white genius clowns going on and on about how other people are stupid and idiots and ignoramouses, and about how damaged they are by someone else not standing for their flag.

Me personally, I’m glad that an international company looking out for its economic well being like Nike doesn’t care. That’s a hopeful sign.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Sep 8, 2018 - 08:41am PT
Saying Nazis and Racists are good people, and defending their right to march with torches and clubs, then saying someone of color can't kneel in protest is just hard to comprehend.

Fanatical nationalism is just a facade to justify bigotry and hate.

I am a Libtard and I love this country as much as any goose-stepping mo-fo's, probably more.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 8, 2018 - 09:00am PT
speaking of dumb

Oh, do tell us.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Sep 8, 2018 - 01:31pm PT
Nike is a multi-billion dollar brand that dominates the global sportswear market. Naturally, they hire the best marketing executives in the business.

They knew exactly what they were doing when they decided to promote the hell out of Colin Kaepernick. Their research showed three things

-Opposing Trump is a winning strategy
-People will spend money to show their contempt for this regime
-Trump’s trashy supporters are such a small percentage of the population they can be ignored

Trump responded by egging his followers on, and once again lied to them by saying Nike is getting “absolutely killed with anger and boycotts”.

So...how has it worked out in reality?

Answer: Just like Nike thought it would:

Nike’s online sales jumped 31% after company unveiled Kaepernick campaign, data show


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nikes-online-sales-jumped-31-after-company-unveiled-kaepernick-campaign-2018-09-07
glspi

climber
Sep 13, 2018 - 08:21pm PT
Very strange how this thread suddenly died.

I'd love to hear responses to the murder down in Dallas that has been asked about. Cop breaks into wrong apartment thinking it's her home and proceeds to murder the tenant inside.

Her initial report has been completely changed at this point (as per usual with cop reports in these cases), and the 'system' is functioning flawlessly (according to how one side has set it up).

Dear God can you imagine if somehow this murderer doesn't get what's coming to her? Oh wait, go about your day, nevermind. Fox now smearing the victim (also standard procedure) with pointless (or planted) info: https://twitter.com/FOX4/status/1040361795519541249
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 13, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 13, 2018 - 08:40pm PT
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 13, 2018 - 11:06pm PT
I suppose some folks do find treason pleasantly surprising.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 14, 2018 - 06:24am PT
Blacks killing blacks...
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 14, 2018 - 07:28am PT
I'd love to hear responses to the murder down in Dallas that has been asked about. Cop breaks into wrong apartment thinking it's her home and proceeds to murder the tenant inside.

Her initial report has been completely changed at this point (as per usual with cop reports in these cases), and the 'system' is functioning flawlessly (according to how one side has set it up).

Dear God can you imagine if somehow this murderer doesn't get what's coming to her? Oh wait, go about your day, nevermind. Fox now smearing the victim (also standard procedure) with pointless (or planted) info: https://twitter.com/FOX4/status/1040361795519541249

I hope the cop gets what's coming to her too, but hard to say exactly what that is. In general, the law looks closely at the mental state of the actor in serious crimes, and here the mental state of the cop doesn't seem to have been to intentionally commit a crime. Instead, she made a horrible mistake. While that won't let her off the cook completely (as it appears she was negligent/careless/reckless what have you), it may let her off from the most serious potential charges.

I suppose a non-PC way to look at this is there is a bit of an issue with certain female cops. In the old days, the typical cop was a large, heavy set guy who could dish out a certain amount of force without touching a gun. (In downtown Denver where I work, I'd say that accurately describes most of the cops I see walking around still.) Most females don't have that option, and perhaps go for the gun as the first option to use force. Not saying this is necessarily the right way to think about it, but just like being a bouncer at a nightclub, or a high level climber in the other direction, I'm not sure that being a cop is job that every person has the right body for. I'm not at all saying women shouldn't be in law enforcement, but I do question whether we should be giving people guns and telling them to use force as a part of their job, unless they also have some good non-gun options. (I'm also thinking a bit about the female cop who shot a guy on PCP in OK City I believe, even though he was unarmed and didn't seem to be doing anything directly threatening. She used the old "I thought he was going for a gun" excuse.)
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 14, 2018 - 08:04am PT
If the cop(or anybody for that matter) goes into her apartment and there is a big guy in HER apartment that is not supposed to be there, she is absolutely justified in shooting him. Waiting for "non-gun" options can get you killed.

As a matter of the way the world works, perhaps you can shoot a "big guy" in your apartment who is not supposed to be there and get away with it, regardless of what the big guy is or isn't doing.

But the law requires something more than that to be a justified shooting, even in the most pro self defense states (generally some sort of reasonable fear that deadly force is necessary to protect your own (or a third party's) safety)). I suppose in Jody world that reasonable fear could be present simply based on a big guy's uninvited presence in your apartment, but I believe the law contemplates something more.

Will be interesting to see if the cop alleges there was a something more in this case; a scuffle or a threat to anything other than "I saw a big (and black?) guy where I didn't think he was supposed to be so I shot him."

Another way to look at it:
Did the cop do two things wrong or just one thing?
In Jody world, the cop only made one mistake, entering the wrong apartment. She would have been perfectly justified in shooting the black guy if it would have been her apartment.
I think in most people's view, the cop did 2 things wrong: she entered the wrong apartment, and then she shot some guy who wasn't (to our knowledge) doing anything threatening.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 14, 2018 - 08:12am PT
WHAT! That is sick, he was in his home.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 14, 2018 - 08:16am PT
she made one mistake or two who cares?

report says she gave verbal commands

and he did not comply

it was his disobedience that got him killed

amirite

Look everyone here posting agrees that she made a serious and criminal mistake and deserves serious punishment.
But I do believe it's relevant in assessing the degree of her culpability to know what happened after she entered the wrong apartment.

And I hate to say it because I don't want this to be misconstrued, but maybe if the guy was acting irrationally cuz he was on high on drugs or whatever, that could be at least somewhat of a mitigating factor.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Sep 14, 2018 - 08:20am PT
AntiChrist:
Jody, I'm curious about your take on that Dallas killing. Also note he was a black MAN... not "a black."
I am confused.
Was she intoxicated by alcohol, marijuana, cocaine or else?
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 14, 2018 - 08:27am PT
Wow, this just gets sicker by the minute.

Maybe he was protecting his home!

Maybe if the officer had told the truth from the beginning this would be a horrible accident and that would be the end of it.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 14, 2018 - 08:30am PT
Should get a “stiffer” sentence because she was a trained professional in the use of firearms and should have been able to handle the situation better.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 14, 2018 - 08:32am PT
^^^Yep
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 14, 2018 - 01:25pm PT
Power,

Not sure what your looking for.

He's just interested in spraying inflammatory nonsense.

Little troll that he is.

Drama queen.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Sep 14, 2018 - 03:20pm PT
if the guy was in HER apartment, that in itself is threatening. To do anything else at that point could cost her HER life.

She thinks a big guy is in her apartment and the moment she steps foot in said apartment her life could be in danger if she does anything other than shoot the guy.

So, she could stay outside of her apartment and call for backup and deal with the situation if the guy tries to leave before backup shows up.

Or, she could enter the apartment and immediately shoot the guy.

Which sort of police state would you prefer?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Sep 14, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
Nike, far from burned by Colin Kaepernick ad, sees share price hit all-time high

seems like only yesterday some were so confidently hoping and predicting the opposite would happen ...

7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Sep 14, 2018 - 04:49pm PT
I wonder how it would have gone over if the black guy had shot the cop who mistakenly entered his home or if he had entered the cop's apartment by mistake and then shot her for being there.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 14, 2018 - 05:28pm PT
GuapoVino

climber
Sep 24, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
Kaepernick just announced that he's going to change the focus of his protest from police corruption and abuses to taking a stand against Robert Mueller's investigation and the preferential treatment of Hillary Clinton by the FBI and the DOJ.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 24, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
Thanks Guapo. This place needs more good natured humor.
couchmaster

climber
Sep 24, 2018 - 03:15pm PT
Kapernicsk bitch about Hillary was a well known real thing, not a joke. Couple of versions, you can google it, most of the mainstream news covered this. It would be funny if Nike did a Kap inspired "HILLARY FOR PRISON" shirt. Given that Nikes political money primarily goes to republicans they say, it might be a thing.


"You have Hillary who has called black teens or black kids super predators, you have Donald Trump who's openly racist," Kaepernick told reporters in August.

Kaepernick was also critical of Clinton for her use of a private email server during her time as Secretary of State. The FBI investigated Clinton but did not charge her with a crime. "We have a presidential candidate who has deleted emails and done things illegally and is a presidential candidate," Kaepernick told reporters. "That doesn’t make sense to me because if that was any other person you’d be in prison. So, what is this country really standing for?"

"San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick believes that the Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton should be in prison. “We have a presidential candidate who has deleted emails and done things illegally and is a presidential candidate,” he said. “That doesn’t make sense to me because if that was any other person you’d be in prison.” Kaepernick shared his thoughts about the presidential election while trying to explain his decision to sit during the national anthem to protest the United States.

“So, what is this country really standing for?” he asked after bringing up Clinton’s behavior in political office."

Maybe it's already been done?


ps, Nike stock will be fine. The margins they get are insane, that won't change even if a few less folks don't buy their overpriced products.
couchmaster

climber
Sep 24, 2018 - 03:47pm PT
You could probably have that if you moved to Venezuela or Sudan Anticrist. Cya -They don't have need for the rule of law there either.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 24, 2018 - 04:05pm PT
^^^ Oh, yeah, Sudan is a veritable paradise for black men,
as long as they have ammo for their AK47.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Sep 24, 2018 - 04:29pm PT
Homicides per 100,000-

Caracas, Venezuela: 111
Sudan: 86
Chicago: 16


Guess again.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Sep 24, 2018 - 05:29pm PT
Kapernicsk bitch about Hillary was a well known real thing, not a joke

well IF truth matters then both Kapernick and yourself are both either lying or simply so biased and uninformed and eager to believe anything negative that you blindly accept this

"You have Hillary who has called black teens or black kids super predators, you have Donald Trump who's openly racist," Kaepernick told reporters in August.

flat wrong, Hillary Clinton did no such thing, she did not call black teens, or black kids, or African Americans, or any specific racial or ethnic group "super predators"

you suggest this is not a joke and to google it yourself, I did

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/aug/28/reince-priebus/did-hillary-clinton-call-african-american-youth-su/
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 24, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
Norton

Colin Kaepernick is the "real hero"
couchmaster

climber
Sep 24, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
"flat wrong, Hillary Clinton did no such thing, she did not call black teens, or black kids, or African Americans, or any specific racial or ethnic group "super predators"

Schmidt also said:
"well IF truth matters then both Kapernick and yourself are both either lying or simply so biased and uninformed and eager to believe anything negative that you blindly accept this"

You may not be familiar with the " symbol (that means quote) means John. When you see this: " " it means that everything between the " " in this case Kapernick said it. I was simply quoting what he said. So, why don't you call him out for being an ignorant bitch? Do you need his email? Tell him he never said Hillary should be in prison. Tell him that all of the mainstream media MUST have reported it incorrectly. No need to tell me, I'm merely using " symbols to denote what another said. In case you missed it, and I suspect you did, " means you are quoting another person. In this case Kapernick. I'll talk slow just for you and here is what Colin Kapernick said,

AGAIN Kap said:
"We have a presidential candidate who has deleted emails and done things illegally and is a presidential candidate," Kaepernick told reporters. "That doesn’t make sense to me because if that was any other person you’d be in prison. So, what is this country really standing for?"

Ooooo look, those little "" """thinggys again, I wonder what those strange little things can possibly mean? LOL I tried to talk slow just for you.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 24, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
he is a football player who is capable of critical thinking.

Yeah, that’s why he’s so easily duped by teams showing man D and then switching to zone and picking his azz. A real Phi Beta Kappa.
Trump

climber
Sep 24, 2018 - 07:36pm PT
I’m not much of a quarterback, but I’m a pretty decent armchair quarterback.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Sep 24, 2018 - 08:35pm PT


EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired

Sep 24, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
Norton

Colin Kaepernick is the "real hero
"

----


No Edward, perhaps you think Colin is some kind of "hero" but I sure don't

thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 24, 2018 - 08:56pm PT
Nike sucks. But it's nice to see 'em piss your folks off, heheheheheh.

And your president attacking the free market is pretty fookin' hilarious. Especially over what is constitutionally protected speech and corporate action. It's called the first amendment Jody. It's legal and proper, imo, to speak or act freely, we ain't soviet america eh?


This America of which we speak is not a country of big government, you know, where the highest lawman in the country interferes in business operations. You damn socialist. You crack me up.

Please do continue to amuse me with your viewpoint.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 25, 2018 - 07:36am PT
Norton

Colin Kaepernick is the "real hero
"
No Edward, perhaps you think Colin is some kind of "hero" but I sure don't

But you used to.

Why the flip flop?
Trump

climber
Sep 26, 2018 - 08:39am PT
We all wonder stuff. The step between wondering and knowing seems all too easy for all of us.

That step always seems to produce a result where the stuff that I wonder is true, and the different stuff that other people wonder is false, and their belief is a data point indicating that those other people are either stupid or immoral or self-delusional or racist or shall we go on?

I wonder why that’s so easy for us?

Not for them, for an us that includes them. I’m not all too sanguine about humans either, but I aspire to count myself among their ranks.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 28, 2018 - 11:18am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Trump

climber
Sep 28, 2018 - 12:54pm PT
AntiChrist I agree. But as the parent of children of color myself, I don’t find my liberal friends to always be free of unacknowledged implicit racism either, and they seem guilty of the same kind of me-centric thinking that we’re all guilty of, just a slightly different flavor of it. No get out of racism free card for me, regardless of who my children or political biases are.
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 05:10pm PT
Kaep is a union man getting blackballed.

If we can't unite in solidarity for this man, they win. Again.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Sep 28, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
Neo-Nazis can march with torch’s, but Kap is a villain for kneeling in protest during the national anthem. WTF?

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 28, 2018 - 06:05pm PT
Trump would probably leave Kapernick alone if he goosed stepped around the stadium with a flag bearing the swastika...
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Sep 29, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
Kap is a villain for kneeling in protest during the national anthem. WTF?

yes he is, because he is black and he should know better, discrimination does not exist anymore

and unarmed blacks do not get shot in the back by cops in American, that is fake news

now if a white football player kneeled during the anthem that would be ok

because they would be rightfully protesting the very "different" America they live in

white Americans are victims of "affirmative action" and denied jobs and getting into college

so when a white player kneels during the anthem he is not disrespecting the flag, god, or the NFL

he is just saying the white people should not be singled out for special negative treatment
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Sep 30, 2018 - 11:44am PT
In Cultural Anthropology they taught us to acknowledge and account for our cultural and racial bias’. That is the key. No one is completely objective.

Not as easy as it seems. It takes a fair amount of humility. Constant struggle.
couchmaster

climber
Nov 5, 2018 - 04:29pm PT

...and the funding that Nike chairman Phil Knight has pitched to the Republican candidate for Gov. has hit at least $2.5 million buckeroos. Plus another reputed Million bucks to the Republican something or other. I don't think it's mattered though. $3.5 million didn't buy enough votes. Come back tomorrow evening and I'll confirm that for ya.

Or knot.

http://www.realclearlife.com/daily-brief/nike-founders-unprecedented-donation-republican-candidate-draws-criticism/

Post election edit: Phil Knights $3.5 million dollar donation to the republicans was knott enough although it was much closer than folks expected. Kate Brown (D) won the race, beating Knute Buhler.

monolith

climber
state of being
Feb 13, 2019 - 06:24pm PT
Boycotter goes out of business.

https://sports.yahoo.com/colorado-business-owner-forced-close-pulling-nike-items-protest-kaepernick-200325564.html
Trump

climber
Feb 16, 2019 - 04:14pm PT
Um .. well .. you know. .. Stuff happens things change we only have so much space and processing power in these brains of ours, sometimes maybe we’re just paying attention to different things.

“As much as I hate to admit this, perhaps there are more Brandon Marshall and Colin Kaepernich supporters out there than I realized.”

Yea, probably the same is true of Trump supporters.

Still, there might be something good about each of those supporters, even maybe something good about why they support who they support. Looks like they each won one way or another.
Inner City

Trad climber
Portland, OR
Feb 16, 2019 - 10:49pm PT
I heard on the radio this week that Kaepernick and Eric Reid had received a settlement from the NFL for allegedly being black-balled by the league for their kneeling during the anthem.

Amount of the settlement was not discussed and all sides are to remain mum I understand. Was also stated during the story that the amount was thought to be rather large..hmm.

It is a free country...
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 16, 2019 - 11:33pm PT
I also saw 2 stories, the 1st implied that the Kaepernick's lawyers found out that someone on their legal team was feeding confidential information to the NFLs side, prompting a substantially large amount to be offered by the NFL in an attempt to reach a settlement. (more than -double the amount?- originally sought?)
By Saturday morning, (the 2nd story) All that was said that an agreement had been reached, & that both sides were satisfied with the settlement.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 17, 2019 - 03:50am PT
I predicted these settlements the minute they filed suit and did discovery on the owner's texts and emails. All these months have been consumed with getting that material, deposing the owners and them and the league trying to get the case tossed out. That all ended back in August when the court sided with Kap; the owners were good and f*#ked at that moment and since then it's really just been haggling over the settlement amount and terms. My best guess is he got $50-70 million and Reid about half that or slightly more. The last thing the league wants out there is just how blatant the collusion among the owners really was.

NYTimes 08.30.2018: Colin Kaepernick’s Collusion Case Against the N.F.L. Will Advance
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 30, 2019 - 08:14pm PT
This topic was so worth 508 posts!
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
May 31, 2019 - 06:36am PT
For what it's worth, Nike lost HUGE $$ because of this campaign. Businesses, stay out of politics. As Michael Jordan said, "Republicans buy shoes, too."

https://www.thewrap.com/colin-kaepernick-nike-stock-loses-4-billion-market-cap/

BAd
Yeti

Trad climber
Ketchum, Idaho
May 31, 2019 - 07:12am PT
http://www.dickdorworth.com/2019/05/26/voices-rising-myth/
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
May 31, 2019 - 07:29am PT
Keep reading bud!

Try this " Nike reaches record highs just days later"

"Investors have weighed in on Nike's ad campaign that features controversial former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick. Despite all of the swooshes scissored away by the company's critics, Nike's stock closed at a record high on Friday."
 September 14 2018
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 31, 2019 - 09:21am PT
The important takeaway is Colin got beaucoup bucks for being a pain in the ass.

Not sure is all this drama made a difference... except to Colin's net worth.

America - I love this country!
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, Bozeman, the ocean, or ?
Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2019 - 09:31am PT
http://time.com/5390884/nike-sales-go-up-kaepernick-ad/


Susan
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 31, 2019 - 02:41pm PT
Bump, cause this certainly deserves 500 posts, nawmean?
Trump

climber
May 31, 2019 - 04:04pm PT
It would be interesting to understand why this thread reached 500 posts, but mostly I think we prefer to imagine that it shouldn’t have.

It’s hard to argue with reality, but when I do, I always seem to win, at least in my own mind.

Thanks CMac and RJ for providing a space for us to act like people, the way we people do.

Looks like we people posted 500 times to this thread. You know how people are.

So does Kaepernick.

Cheers people!
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