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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:15pm PT
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Corporations aren't unique in limiting liability. Limited partnerships, LLC's and for certain professions, LLP's do the same. Partnership taxation allocates all income and losses to individual partners. Corporations do not, in part because the enormous size of the shareholder class in large public corporations would be a bookkeeping and taxation nightmare...
S corporations do, C corporations do not.
Curt
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Jorroh
climber
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:08pm PT
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Who pays corporate taxes?...doesn't matter.
What we know is that apple is enjoying all the benefits of public investment that everybody else in Ireland is paying for through their taxes. Apple is using their leverage as a powerful corporation to carve out a tax exemption that is not available to the citizens of Ireland.
Apple, like everybody else should pay their share, and if that is a cost to users of apple products, apple workers, apple executives apple shareholders or anyone else..that seems fair to me.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
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Pay their fair share of what?
My god the brainwashed masses with their hand out.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
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Taxes you dumb ass...
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Jorroh
climber
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Aug 30, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
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Holy Sh#t,
The rationale for this sort of corporate welfare is always, jobs, jobs jobs.
22000 apple employees in Europe, 13B euros ($15b)=approx $700,000 per job...maybe my maths is wrong?
I think the interesting question would be who pays the cost of the taxes among the apple stakeholders versus who benefited from the tax subsidy among the apple stakeholders.
I'm guessing that the executive share is drastically different for each scenario, but other than that I've no idea.
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Al Barkamps
Social climber
Red Stick
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Aug 30, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
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Corporate taxes are a stupid idea intended to make up for the fact that the %1 don't pay their fair share of taxes. Simplify the code, enforce it, and throw cheats and tax dodgers into the same prisons they put violent offenders.
Problem solved.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Aug 31, 2016 - 07:12am PT
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Corporate taxes are a stupid idea intended to make up for the fact that the %1 don't pay their fair share of taxes. Simplify the code, enforce it, and throw cheats and tax dodgers into the same prisons they put violent offenders.
Problem solved.
Never gonna happen. Taxes, tax revenue and the tax code is the single biggest power lever our elected officials have in their toolbox. The more complicated it is, the better as far as they are concerned.
And with Statist retards clamoring for even more obfuscation, legislation and pandering via taxes and "penalties" it doesn't look to be changing anytime soon regardless of who wins the Special Olympics election in November.
Workers of the world unite!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:05am PT
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Swiss corporations pay a top rate of 18% and Swiss citizens pay a top personal rate of
13.2%! Now, the last I checked, which was a couple weeks ago, the Swiss are living
pretty large. It kinda makes me think most of the rest of the world has it all wrong. Oh, and
their VAT rate is about 1/3 of their neighbors' also. Things are not exactly cheap there but
they're not that bad. In fact, I stayed in some pretty damn nice joints for less than a crappy
Holiday Inn or Hampton Inn costs here.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:10am PT
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Corporations are people acting in concert. Conservatives understand this. Leftists pretend corporations are simply separate metaphysical entities, and therefore have no rights. They also view that metaphysical entity as a taxpayer. That's like saying an apartment building pays property tax. Its owners pay the tax, but they doubtless collect at least some of that tax in rental income. Conservatives understand what corporations really are. Corporations apparently still baffle the left.
John, I can form an LLC today. I am not a people. I am a single person.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:16am PT
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Let's not get carried away. Comparing tax rates of other nation-states and assessing quality of life based solely on that is like picking your climbing routes based only on what pro you have on your rack. Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
In any case, if we continue to approach the discussion from the perspective of how can we maximize the revenue that government collects versus what's the minimum amount they need to provide some basic collective needs then tax rates and revenues will only go one way (as we have seen in stunning plain view).
And we really don't need to argue about where that is leading us to regardless of what the Statists would like us to believe.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:37am PT
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John, I can form an LLC today. I am not a people. I am a single person.
Well, LLC's don't pay taxes.
Curt
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:48am PT
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I''ll zealously applaud anyone's attempt, successful or not, to circumvent U.S. federal taxes.
There is no "moral" obligation to pay some mysterious fair share even though you've been programmed to believe there is.
In fact, it's the only way to starve the beast.
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Aug 31, 2016 - 11:04am PT
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Aug 31, 2016 - 11:25am PT
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Corporation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A corporation is a company or group of people authorized to act as a single entity (legally a person) and recognized as such in law. Early incorporated entities were established by charter (i.e. by an ad hoc act granted by a monarch or passed by a parliament or legislature). Most jurisdictions now allow the creation of new corporations through registration.
Corporations come in many different types but are usually divided by the law of the jurisdiction where they are chartered into two kinds: by whether or not they can issue stock, or by whether or not they are for profit.
Where local law distinguishes corporations by ability to issue stock, corporations allowed to do so are referred to as "stock corporations", ownership of the corporation is through stock, and owners of stock are referred to as "stockholders." Corporations not allowed to issue stock are referred to as "non-stock" corporations, those who are considered the owners of the corporation are those who have obtained membership in the corporation, and are referred to as a "member" of the corporation.
Corporations chartered in regions where they are distinguished by whether they are allowed to be for profit or not are referred to as "for profit" and "not-for-profit" corporations, respectively.
There is some overlap between stock/non-stock and for profit/not-for-profit in that not-for-profit corporations are always non-stock as well. A for profit corporation is almost always a stock corporation, but some for profit corporations may choose to be non-stock. To simplify the explanation, whenever "stockholder" is used in the rest of this article to refer to a stock corporation, it is presumed to mean the same as "member" for a non-profit corporation or for profit, non-stock corporation.
Registered corporations have legal personality and are owned by shareholders[1][2] whose liability is limited to their investment. Shareholders do not typically actively manage a corporation; shareholders instead elect or appoint a board of directors to control the corporation in a fiduciary capacity.
In American English the word corporation is most often used to describe large business corporations.[3] In British English and in the Commonwealth countries, the term company is more widely used to describe the same sort of entity while the word corporation encompasses all incorporated entities. In American English, the word company can include entities such as partnerships that would not be referred to as companies in British English as they are not a separate legal entity.
Despite not being individual human beings, corporations, as far as the law is concerned, are legal persons, and have many of the same rights and responsibilities as natural persons do. Corporations can exercise human rights against real individuals and the state,[4][5] and they can themselves be responsible for human rights violations.[6] Corporations can be "dissolved" either by statutory operation, order of court, or voluntary action on the part of shareholders. Insolvency may result in a form of corporate failure, when creditors force the liquidation and dissolution of the corporation under court order,[7] but it most often results in a restructuring of corporate holdings. Corporations can even be convicted of criminal offenses, such as fraud and manslaughter. However corporations are not considered living entities in the way that humans are.
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Al Barkamps
Social climber
Red Stick
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Aug 31, 2016 - 11:35am PT
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A corporation is an organism. Like a bacterium.
It's designed to do three things: eat resources, sh#t waste, and, every 3 months, spawn a profit. Despite the few similarities to humans, they shouldn't be accorded similar rights.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 31, 2016 - 11:45am PT
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Don't you work for one, DMT?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 31, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
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Doesn't it bug you that you pay a higher tax rate than yer corporate 'entity' does? It bugs the
sh!t outta me that I pay a higher rate than Locker's friend, Crack Annie. I've always kept my
legs together, I don't do drugs, and I don't show up at the ER on the public's nickel. I also
stimulate the economy more than my fair share yet I'm penalized for not being a loser.
I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M GONNA KEEP TAKIN' IT! Actually, if I didn't like road trippin'
around the West so much I prolly would move to Switzerland, or maybe the British Virgin
Islands where there is ZERO income tax. That place ain't exactly goin' to the dogs either.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 31, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
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S corporations do [pass income and losses to shareholders for tax treatment], C corporations do not.
Which is why corporations electing taxation under Subchapter S may have a maximum of 100 shareholders.
John M, your characterization of what I say is close enough. I don't know if this will futher clarify or further confuse, but I object to corporate income taxation because income taxation serves only one purpose: to redistribute from the more well-off to the less well-off. That concept makes sense only on an individual level.
We wouldn't say that an apartment building with deluxe apartments should take some of its niceties and give them to apartment buildings with fewer niceties. Neither would we say that a 160-acre ranch should give some of its acreage to a 40-acre ranch. Rather, we take from individuals with more and give to those with less who, we believe, merit assistance. Since we cannot determine the individuals from which we are taking the corporate income tax, we should get revenues from corporations in a different format, namely user fees.
Thus, to the extent a corporation benefits from services offered by society, charge it a fee for those services. That way a corporation doesn't get goods or services for free when an individual must pay for the same services. I submit that corporate income makes a poor proxy for how many goods and services a particular corporation uses. When GM was losing its shirt, and therefore had negative income, it was still using massive amounts of governmental goods and services, for example.
My parting shot, on a slightly different angle,is this: the EU tax bullying will not make tax havens disappear. It will fuel more Brexit-type decisions to go it alone. The ability to tax, and how much, goes to the heart of national sovereignty, and few countries will part with that power willingly.
John
Edit:
I just don't buy the argument that corps should not pay taxes 'because it's not clear who is paying the tax'.
I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed. I'm saying they should not be taxed based on their income, but based on their use of governmental resources and "public goods" (as economists define the term, meaning a good without the ability to exclude non-payors, such as, for example, clean air).
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
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If you don't pay your taxes you can 't have your Pentagon pudding
Manifest (not the kind on the slave ships) Destiny.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Aug 31, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
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Are we nearing the time when the guillotines need to be rolled out into the town square?
"Let them eat cake."
"Yeah bitch - we got your cake right here."
Admittedly it will screw things up for a generation or so - might even cause people to look up from their cellphone for a minute - but it does reset the equity clock a bit!
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