Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 65 of total 65 in this topic |
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 28, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
|
I gonna give this a go. Woodcrafted cabinets and old-school tubes.
These WILL NOT be meeting any current CE/TUV emissions regulations.
I'm thinking of starting with a custom Fender Twin Reverb design. It'll be 'hot-rodded' of course. Already have the spring reverb can.
For my bass I'm going to re-create the Ampeg bass amp!!!!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
|
What kind of hardwoods (I assume hardwoods are used) would be choice for a cabinet?
For a combo like a Twin Reverb-style cabinet, acoustics of the wood is very relevant. The 'cabinet' is a resonance chamber. The wood type and craftsmanship adds/detracts to the sound.
For heads they are acoustically insignificant. They are just a vessel for the electronics.
Red oak?
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
|
This will be the model. Great stage amp for gigs. I'm going to limit the inputs to 2. The original amp was over-engineered a bit to suit too many different needs.
That's beauty over customizing one!!! These things are selling for like $800 still. The originals. The problem is that they can't sell them like that new anymore. Regulations.
But you can still build them like that privately. Even sell them. Just not commercially. Maybe in the US, but not in Europe and Asia.
Next dilemma. Speaker configuration. 1x12", or 2x10"? 2 12's like the twin Reverb is overkill IMO for my purposes. That's the next phase anyway, building an awesome head to drive a cabinet of speakers.
I think a 2x10" is ideal. Maybe a 1x12", just because it's easier. Usually, radical is not easy though. I'm leaning 2x something, prolly 10"s
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2016 - 01:12pm PT
|
Actually, I'll have to meld the Twin Reverb and the Deluxe. I may have to go with twin 12" speakers. I want AT LEAST 60 watts. Prolly 100.
12ax7 pre-amp tubes with 6A6 power output tubes to 2 speakers. And you gotta use good Celestin/EV speakers, or something equiv. Perfect!
Now, the design....
Zbrown, I grew interested in electronics, and my current career, from building my own guitar effects. Mostly distortion pedals. Got me my second job in the field, and my current job for the past 18 years.
Fun stuff!!!
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
|
You and my nephew. He sold some to the Rolling Stones.
On the other hand he wrecked my Animal Traks surfboard.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
|
Bluering, what is the difference in current regulations VS what was allowed in the past ?
Lead restrictions are first (RoHS). I don't really care about lead in solder or my IC's.
Most of the CE/TUV regs are aimed at controlling and damping emissions, or interference. The want minimal emissions from your product. These are usually high-frequency emissions.
These regulations really stifle great products. I have seen it first-hand. We met their standards, and ended up costing us a lot of money as a result. And we have worse problems now.
E.g. we had power-supplies in a sub-chassis that fit into a larger chassis with fans. Even though our vented power-supply was in an enclosure we still had to seal it up so kids/people can't stick things in there.
Now our sealed power supplies that are kid=-safe blow up at 4 times the rate they did before.
These are violent failures too. Sparks shooting out, smoke, etc...
They worked fine for years before that.
EDIT: the Quilter Aviator I like most is an open- backed 2 x 10
Fo sho! Open backed 2x 10's is solid. I'll prolly end up there.
#Prolly100
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
|
Now our sealed power supplies that are kid=-safe
Are these switch mode supplies or standard transformer supplies?
Switch mode power supplies when not designed well put out a lot of dirty harmonics onto the rails.
What ARE you using for a power supply for audio frequencies?
I used to build 12ax7 preamps and power amps from 6a6 tubes in the late 60's.
Anyways .... are you custom building the amps on metal chassis or printed circuit boards?
|
|
hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
|
i'm drinking the koolaid over here[Click to View YouTube Video]sonic farm ... maybe a beamer? http://sonicfarm.com/ yay canada!
i'd be very interested in following your progress on this bluering.
i'm up to my gills on verbal description of sound qualities though, it's a little frustrating.
but silence? i've got access to enough silence to die for
|
|
Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
|
the volume knob should have one notch above ten...
"yur gonna die"
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
|
Last year I bought a Fractal Audio AxeFX IIXL. It models in extreme detail (enough to give wet dreams to even the most ardent of electrical engineers) all of the internal components of 249 amplifiers and has a framework for importing captured impulse responses for cabinets, interactions between amp and speaker, etc.). Of course it also has a bazillion effect blocks that you can chain together in a bazillion ways. It is not quite as flexible as audio software development like C-Sound where you can route as many audio and control signals as you want, perform math operations on collections of control signals to use as a general purpose additive or subtractive synth. It has a weak spot in that the input is buffered so you can't have a Fuzz pedal emulation that reacts to the unique load of the guitar. And if you use a computer-based post-processing workstation you can use reverb plugins or other IRs with longer tails and make use of more CPU power. So this thing isn't infinitely flexible and perfect, but it is amazingly good at emulating the characteristics of the vast majority of amps and cabinets/speakers out there, and it is good enough for many many life-long tube amp addicts to sell of their collection of decades and stick with just this product.
So if you want to build your own amp and cab as a hobby and aren't really that picky about how it sounds in the end, or you know exactly how the circuit diagram you are following sounds, go for it! But if you are going after a specific sound and want to search around a bit to make a more informed choice, I highly recommend investing in a modeler, and seeing how deep the rabbit hole can go as you start digging into all the possibilities, and are able to hear in real-time how different design decisions affect the sound. Then armed with this knowledge you can roll your own and hope to make it sound exactly like you want.
For example, are you aware of how it sounds differently if the pre-amp section uses 12AX7A vs 12AX7B tubes, or EF86?
Going for Fender amp sounds, have you heard how the different circuit designs sound, e.g. using schematics for 5F1, 5F8, 6G4, 6G12, AB165, AA964, etc.? If you get a chance to play with a modeler that has already implemented all of these and many more, then you can get an idea for what you like and focus on that model. Given that you are building it in hardware and not emulation, probably the most important factor would be how loud you have to turn up the master volume before triggering the signature distortion tones.
I'm sure no matter what path you take, you will have a bunch of fun and learn a lot and help those of us interested learn something too. I'd like to see more "trip reports" for this adventure :)
This should give you an idea of how deep you can go to experimenting with sound in a modeler before you commit to a hardware design:
http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=AMP_block_parameters
http://olongjohnson.xp3.biz/_assets/Amp_&_Cab_Quick_Reference.pdf
http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Amp:_all_models
http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Cab:_all_models
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
|
NutAgain, yeah. I know all about the differences in tube biasing and their tones. Actually I'm still learning about biasing them, but as a guitarist I know all about guitar tonality, and why tubes are rad.
Werner inquired:
Are these switch mode supplies or standard transformer supplies?
Cheap Chinese supplies that are switching psus. They are rated a certain way, but then installed into our custom chassis enclosure.
Switch mode power supplies when not designed well put out a lot of dirty harmonics onto the rails.
Indeed. That can be shielded though. If it's properly vented. Seal in the emissions, but vent the heat. Huge, but generally simple problem.
What ARE you using for a power supply for audio frequencies?
See above.
I used to build 12ax7 preamps and power amps from 6a6 tubes in the late 60's.
Anyways .... are you custom building the amps on metal chassis or printed circuit boards?
The beauty of the electric guitar and vacuum tubes is their tone. Software engineers have tried to recreate it. Tried to 'model it'.
Nothing is the same. It's pure current flow and tone. You'll know it when you hear it, but most people settle for less. Mediocrity.
Werner, I'll keep you updated. My old band-mate, co-worker, and good friend dabbles in this too. Along with making some of the best micro-brew around.
Anyway, the dude writes DSP software for us. He basically tells DSP's how to handle up to 460 channels of audio with upwards of an additional 24 Mix Buses, 24 Group busses, and 24 Aux busses. All SIMULTANEOUSLY!!!
He's kind of an audio genius. But very cool. And he a f*#king liberal, but that's okay. He's also a rational person.
Oh! I'll probably try to make my own PCB's. I may even try to hard-wire everything. Nothing is better than a hard connection with that kind of current.
I also have friends in the business who may help me out if I get a solid design I'd want to re-create. They'll make the boards.
EDIT: 12AX7's vs EF86's? Isn't there an EL86. I remember some old amps that sound real f=goog using those. Very 'warm' pre-amp tube.
I need to do some more research.
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
Aug 29, 2016 - 01:05am PT
|
your thinking of EL84's aka 6BQ5, (VOX, Trainwreck, Peavey)
don't use oak, too heavy, you want something light, Fender used yellow pine,
all of which has been harvested down south, regular pine is ok,
bolt the baffle board on the sides only, this is called a floating baffle board, you want the baffle board to vibrate,
don't use rubber feet, you want the amp to transmit vibrations into the stage floor.
Sevetlana EL34's sound better than 6L6GC, Amperex 12AX7's sound better than JJ's,
guitar amps modulate the power supply, so the supply is very important, so is the output transformer,
keep your plate voltages down, people are running 500 volts+ nowadays which is crazy, 440 sounds best, plus you can use a tube rectifier for more sag,
use carbon comp plate resistors, 1 watt, not 1/2 watt like old blackface amps,
i wind 1959 Triad output transformers for a guy who builds the Tweed DeLuxe amps, unusual gapped core which lowers primary inductance but stabilizes permeability, made for a pair of push-pull 6V6 tubes, which sound better than 6L6 IMHO,
http://www.tweeddeluxe.com/about-us.cfm
my 6V6GT output transformers are 45 bucks each if you want one.
here is a demo>
https://youtu.be/reY61-EhHQQ
this guy also had Weber build a custom Jensen AlNiCo speaker since the re-issues don't have the mojo, uses a 410 Nomex former,
http://www.tweeddeluxe.com/speed-shop-a12q-custom-alnico-speaker.cfm
here is a link to back issues of Vacuum Tube Valley, done by my friends Chales Kittleson and Eric Barbour,
https://web.archive.org/web/20130604042043/http://www.jumpjet.info/Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/vtv.htm
need good tubes and don't want an evilbay ripoff?
KCA
http://www.kcanostubes.com/
Pick up Gerald Weber's books if you want to learn about tube amps,
here is a good one>
https://www.amazon.com/Tube-Amp-Talk-Guitarist-Tech/dp/0964106019
Aspen Pitman's book is also a must>
https://www.amazon.com/Tube-Amp-Book-Aspen-Pittman/dp/B000KXK6A6
Look into the Kustom 72 Coupe amp by James Brown, who designed the 5150 for Eddie VanHalen if you want to pick up on tone tweaks
http://www.amptweaker.com/page/About-James-1.aspx
|
|
ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
|
|
|
Aug 29, 2016 - 02:56am PT
|
A lot of cool interest in this thread. Hey I'll buy one from you Bluey if they sound good.
Upthread, what exactly is "regular pine" out of curiosity? Yellow, or Ponderosa I suppose is kind of regular. Anyway, what about Ash?
Blue what are your opinions of the SL6 console by the way?
Arne
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Aug 29, 2016 - 10:21am PT
|
Quite a lot of people have done A/B comparisons of mic'd classic tube amps and the direct outs of Fractal AxeFX, and can't tell the difference.
If you use the amp simulator to a real cab, can't tell the difference standing in front of the cab (some amp models are probably better than others).
Technology is catching up. This is getting reminiscent of the "Vinyl is better, CD's are sterile" argument.
That said, I can't fault folks who want to stay with tubes. They sound great, and are the de facto reference and some people do have the ability to hear the difference. The vast majority of people can't if it is tuned well. For me at least, the emulation is NOT the weak link in my sound. My playing is!
Edit (added after Locker comment): One really cool thing, is that there are world-class players/tone hounds who are still niggling away at identifying what is not quite right, and the CEO of this company is incredibly receptive and driven to make this thing better and better. Pretty frequent software updates have the fan base gushing with statements like "I didn't think you could make it any better but somehow you did!"
Here's an example of where it was about a year ago, with several major improvements in the modeling since then:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
I guess it's all still new enough that the user experience to adjust tones is not that refined. You have to have an engineering mindset to manipulate the controls. Probably in 5 years it will be dumbed down like an Apple product with minimal controls... but having access to all the controls underneath makes it almost a new hobby in itself. I get easily distracted chasing tones and don't actually practice playing technique or learning songs as much :)
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
|
My software engineer buddy who makes amps gave me some tips. He's a 'softie', more attuned to writing algorithms to manipulate digital audio. A DSP engineer.
I only mention that because I should have better luck than he in customizing the circuits for my needs. He sticks by the schematics. I want to explore, after I see the schematics.
I also need to read up on tube-biasing. It's essentially a transistor, just a lot more voltage and current. But I've worked around transformers and tubes bigger than that.
He's saying I should go with a Marshall 18W model as a stand-alone 'head' than can be toggled to mate with 2, 4, 8. 12 Ohm speaker loads. Basically anything you'd want.
This is brilliant actually. I can use it as a portable 18W amp to plug into ANY cabinet. And it's low enough wattage I can get it to clip very nicely as a house/garage practice amp. Gotta drive the tubes medium-hard to get them just right sounding.
Should be fun. He wisely also pointed out that my top dollar expenditure should be for a high quality OUTPUT transformer, not the AC transformer. Makes sense. Keeps the noise off the outputs.
EDIT: Funny too, without me mentioning it, he also explained the downside of many Fender designs is they also had 2 discrete channels, for clean and 'reverb'. These ran through additional circuits and different tubes.
He agreed this was a waste and could be 'fixed', or modified by a skilled tech. It depends on what you want. Bluey's Kustom Shop.
I'm gonna get going on the Marshall 18-20W unit. It'll prolly use EL-84 power tubes. The nice, warm ones....
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2016 - 10:37pm PT
|
go to Banjo Center on stevens creek and try out all the amps then copy the one you like, Peavey makes a good el84 amp, some of the marshall valvestates sound nice but they use chip preamps (hybrid) or just copy the old vox ac 15 circuit,
output transformer does not keep noise out, they determine the frequency response and distortion characteristics, they are non linear devices (look into B-H curves)and when combined with tubes they form an eliptical loadline.
here is an amp forum with lots of info>
http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewforum.php?f=28
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2016 - 11:43pm PT
|
This is getting reminiscent of the "Vinyl is better, CD's are sterile" argument.
I think this cuts to the heart of the digital simulation vs. analog debate.
Playing a vinyl record is about procedures you don't have to deal with playing a cd. The turntable is essential, and setting it up properly is a never ending process. Phono pre-amplifiers are fickle at best. Then there is the suspense of handling the record. He's sliding it out of its paper sleeve, will he touch the surface by mistake, or drop it?? OMG. Drop a CD who cares? For me, all other things being about equal, the whole experience of playing vinyl is more rewarding than playing CD's. And often the sound is better too.
I don't make guitar amps, but I understand the thought process which would eschew the digital modeling - no matter how precise - versus the satisfaction of dealing with the endless variables of the analog world. If I'm right, the tube-heads are into the fact that each time they power up their rig and play it there will be something different going on.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
|
The doctor is in! Thanks for the beta, Sprock. I know you have a wealth of info in this regard.
Thanks, brah!
Kris. Yeah, you got most of it right. The sound is very dynamic.
While most human ears, in theory, cannot detect the minutia of digital conversion and processing. The overall sound is distinct enough. Of digital audio versus un-converted analog audio.
Most people think EQ'ing and Dynamics/Filters enhancing audio. They may be to your own ears, but you have usually altered the pure signal to something much different than the source.
If the source is pure, you shouldn't need conversion and processing. Purity! This is what tube amps are, and yet more. Tubes tend to add a 'warmth' that is considered pleasant to most, as opposed to the sharp, compressed, mediocrity of digital audio.
Our old CS3000 consoles were the best of both worlds. Digitally controlled, pure analog signal path. Through the use of DCA's (digitally controlled amplifiers), one can have digital accuracy of a pure analog, un-converted signal.
This is considered old-school 80's/90's technology now. But it is still very sweet. I'm an analog purist is you haven't noticed. But I still use digital crap. It's easier.
|
|
ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
|
|
Amen and kudos to analog. All the way baby!
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
tubes
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
18W Marshall that you can crank without making your ears bleed sounds good! You gotta do some youtube style trip reports in the end :)
Edit: Ksolem, are those blue can-looking things electrolytic capacitors? If so, they are the biggest I've ever seen.
|
|
EP
Trad climber
Way Out There
|
|
I use one of the following: 1958 Fender Tweed Deluxe with ancient tubes, Victiria Tweed Deluxe with NOS TUBES, and currently a Hughes and Kettner Bluesmaster with whatever they put in it new in 1995. I run the H&K through either a Jensen MOD12" in a strange looking old cab reminiscent of a drive in movie speaker or a pair of Celestion Greenbacks. The Vic has a 12" Jensen and the Fender a 12" no name. I get my beef from a Zendrive pedal. if I want cleaner tone I use my Dan Armstrong cabs with Cerwin Vega speakers: open back 12" or the closed back 15".
A friend who uses a Quilter tried to sell me his refinished'64 Strat for only $9,000. I passed.
Otherwise I play a Sonic Blue custom Strat clone, Old Melody Maker with PAFS, 58" Les Paul Jr., LapSteel from the 30's or, when the mood strikes me, a blue PRS SE with three Dimarzio Super Distortion Humbuckers, push pull pots for dual or single coils, six position pickup selector, OBEL, and on board preamp.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
Ksolem, are those blue can-looking things electrolytic capacitors?
Yeah. The designers at Manley Labs don't f*ck around.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
|
Yeah. The designers at Manley Labs don't f*ck around.
Booyah! Capacitors are usually referenced in uF (micro Farads), because they usually don't get that big for most uses. But when serious filtering is required, you roll out the big guns.
We use ones rated at 47,000 uF, or 47 Farads. You never hear people refer to caps in 'Farads'. It always micro or pico Farads.
The ones in Kris' pics have got be around 50 or 100 'Farads'. That is about as clean a DC power source as you'll get. (The big guns are usually used to filter out ripple/noise from power supplies).
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
47,000 uF, or 47 Farads
it would be 47 millifarads, 47 farads would be massive
uF is micro Farads (millionths of a farad)
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
Manley 500 Watt Monoblock
ALL-TUBE monoblock design 10 x KT90EH Electro-Harmonix Russian output tubes
High current double 12BH7EH driver stage
12AT7EH large plate Electro-Harmonix Russian input tube
BALANCED & UNBALANCED inputs
MUTE switch
TRIODE / Ultra-Linear switching
SOFT-START/ EVER-WARM standby mode
MANLEY Precision output transformer
Factory set for 5 Ohms nominal
Front panel bias measurement and adjust (hiding under the black insert)
Large filter / reservoir capacitors 3800uF x 2
Angled rear of chassis provides for easy connections
WBT binding posts
Input sensitivity: 1V
Gain: 32dB tetrode; 30dB in triode
Input Impedance RCA: 116 kOhm @ 1KHz
Input Impedance XLR: 270 kOhm @ 1KHz; 20 kOhms @ 20KHz; 38 kOhm @ 20Hz
Noise Floor: Tetrode: -67dB; Triode -65dB typical
S/N Ratio: -80 dB
Dynamic Range: 96dB
FLAT frequency response: 10 Hz - 30 KHz continuous
Power Consumption: 30 Watts in "EVER-WARM"
Full power (tetrode): 500W
Full power (triode): 275W
Factory set for 100V, 120V or 220-240VAC operation for original destination country's mains voltage.
Operating Mains Voltage changeable with power transformer re-wiring and fuse value change.
Mains Voltage Frequency:
Dims: W=19", D=13", H=9"
Shipping weight: 82 lbs. each
Specifications subject to change because they just might.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
|
it would be 47 millifarads, 47 farads would be massive
uF is micro Farads (millionths of a farad)
I stand corrected. .047 Farad's.....Doh!!! I feel stupid.....
EDIT: Kris, that is the kinda sh#t I'm talking about!!! Make the best, groud-up.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
|
Dr Sprock, you know where I live. See me when yer around. Aquarian is still here...
I'm all ears on yer beta. Still absorbing everything, but the sublities that yer talking about are EXACTLTY what I'm trying create. A really kick-ass custom amp. Or two.
Just got my first output xfrmr today. A Classic Tone - 166-1633. The other parts are in the mail.
My initial design does not have a pre-drive potentiometer. Just a single volume for the orverall gain. I need to do a bit more research on biasing tubes, and flooding my pre-amp section!!!
BooM!!!!
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
|
bluering
Here's a good one.
Years ago they did a test on speaker wire and the best audiophiles were used in the "Test"
The loon "best audiophiles" said they can hear the difference in the expensive speaker wire from the cheaper stuff, hahaha.
So they made them hear through the expensive wire and the other was 10cents a foot ac lamp wire.
They picked the cheap 10 cents a foot lamp wire every time over the horrendously expensive best audiophile speaker wire thinking it was the best audiophile speaker wire.
LOL, stupid audiophiles .......
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2016 - 10:36pm PT
|
Oh, I get ya, Werner. That's why I'm building my own sh#t. I know what really sweet tones sound like. More importantly, I know which frequencies are sweetest to my (and most others) ears. It just sounds nice.
The cool thing is that I have no rules if I'm not selling the sh#t. F*#king rules and regulations...
I'll update the thread with some schematic ideas soon. I may just let you have my prototype, Werner. Or the second one. I gotta make two, for comparisons.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2016 - 11:57pm PT
|
LOL, stupid audiophiles .......
Audiophiles are a funny bunch. There are a lot of poseurs. There are also some who really know what they're listening to.
Interesting story. I worked as a mastering guy at a top LA place for about 12 years. My studio had Tannoy 215 main monitors. That's 2 15 inch drivers with Tannoy's trademark HF horn mounted concentrically in one of them. The 15's were not crossed over, like the classic UREI 215's both were full range. So those 15's were driven by a massive Audire Otez amp, the hf driver by a Hafler. Great sounding rig.
We always had people coming in wanting us to try this or that. One day a rep from Kimber Cable came through. I had that whole set up wired with Monster Cable and had never given a thought to changing it. So the guy came in when I was working on something, without a client present. He asked me if I wanted to give these new cables a try. The wiring is easily accessible, so he took a few minutes to change it out while I did some editing on the near-fields. When he was done I flipped back to the mains and just about fell out of my chair. What I thought was a damn good system had just gotten a damn lot better. No way was he taking those cables back.
So the cable thing isn't really a hoax. That said, the Kimber's I fell in love with weren't cheap, but they were a fraction of the cost of some of the stuff I see audiophiles drool over... Jeez, those fools will spend a grand on a phono cartridge.
Obviously I don't know sh#t about guitar amps... Carry on.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2016 - 12:24am PT
|
Obviously I don't know sh#t about guitar amps... Carry on.
You are the sound guy. And I know you know what I'm talking about.
It gets deeper with guitarists. Especially guys like me who dig the old warm tube sound. I even miss the Dick Dale spring-reverb sound!!!
So sweet!
As a sound dude, I know you love the tubes.....
EDIT: Cables are about sound integrity. Often overlooked. If the signal is compromised at the input, or in it's signal path, even Jimmy Page would sound like a d#@&%e.
That's why I don't like wireless rigs. Not real.
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2016 - 02:07am PT
|
Manley? there alright, licensed the Pultec stuff, smart move, AES regulars, Eve Anna rides a chopper so don't mess with her,
Vari-Mu compressor? very popular, modeled after the famous Fairchild 660 and and 670 (Rein Narma, George Alexanddrovich), used to feature the infamous 6386 remote cutoff, probably switched to a T bar 5670,
output transformer?
features a close coupled tertiary wind to prevent phase angle from causing oscillation, probably done on a fat stack of 80 Ni,
http://www.aes.org/historical/oral/?ID=54
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2016 - 10:10am PT
|
Sprock, what's your deal, you are very knowledgeable. You a studio guy? Ever go to a Sapphire Group get together? Kinda stodgy, but a good place to catch up with EveAnna and all the tube-heads.
This was my desk for more than a decade. Those are the 215's in the wall I was telling Werner about.
Analog on the right: Focusrite eq, Manley vari-mu, Manley passive eq (Magic that one is). That thing under the desk with two lights is a Manley D to A with a tube output stage.
OT I know, back to guitars. I'll learn something listening to you folks.
|
|
aldude
climber
Monument Manor
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2016 - 10:48am PT
|
Kris....what brand are the wonder cables?
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
|
Kris....what brand are the wonder cables?
Kimber Kabel. They make cables from around $200 up to about $10K :-0
I'm pretty sure these are the closest current model to the one's I used. Of course we didn't pay a dime for them, the rep wanted them to be seen/heard in our joint.
Kimber_Kable_12VS_Pairs
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
|
that Hartke is nice, i believe there is a tube in there,
some of this class d stuff is amazing, 2000 watts in a cigar box
Carvin makes a 2000 watt bass amp that has the best sound that i have tried,
got some diy studio stuff, quad 8, api, telefunken v76 and v72, langevin am16, la2a, pultec eqp1a and meq5, western electric, working on 1176 rev a and ssl mixbus compressor, fairchild 670,
enclosures here.
http://collectivecases.com/
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
|
Not the amp, but how I am changing my method of joining the guitar to the amp:
http://btpa.com/CA-0446.html
I just bought some of this and some Neutrik connectors to make a cable with lower capacitance so less of the high frequency signal is bled off to ground before it gets to the amp. Some players liked to use the cable itself (e.g. coils in cable to increase length to increase capacitance) as a form of EQ to manage the high frequency spikes from their guitar (e.g. Jimi Hendrix), but I would prefer to have this be configurable in my equipment and not lose any of the signal in the first place. Maybe it doesn't matter for low quality signals, but with higher quality signals the impact of the cable can be significant. I've never played with a low capacitance cable yet, but within the next few weeks I should know if I like it (if it's "like taking a blanket off my tone") and if theory matches up with practice. Maybe this is all hand-wringing and changing the treble knob on the amp by a hair overcomes whatever effect there is from the cable?
When it comes to audio tone, very often I have been wrong about thinking something theoretically and then having that not match up with what I discover after more experience. I am in the midst of a tone quest and realizing how ignorant I am after 25+ years of playing guitar. But I have a good mentor now who is motivating me to go deeper, and I'm digging in. We'll see if I survive the odyssey with my high quality digital modeling of analog amplifiers, or if I end up back in the 1960s stone age.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
|
or if I end up back in the 1960s stoned age.
I think that's what you meant to say?
:-)
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
|
Make it all in one!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
|
I've decided that my best option all around is a Marshall JCM800 50W replica.
That's 3x 12ax7's in the pre stage and 2 x EL34 power tubes in the output stage. The reason for the change is I need an amp to 'work with'. One with a defined PRE stage and a defined OUTPUT. That will let me do some research on biasing the circuits. And designing new ones.
EL84 pre tubes and 6V6 outputs are always in play too of course. I'd like to limit it to these 4 varieties because they;ll still be around for a while. The Russians knock out some pretty good tubes nowadays. And they will for a while.
So, I'll proceed with a 50W JCM800 replica.
EDIT: Some might ridicule the need for a $1500 cable for audio when all you need is an Iphone with a $15 cable. I think I said before that you'll know really sweet audio when you hear it. It's really what music should be about, but not just the music, how you hear it is also important.
For example, hearing Rush '2112' with headphones for the first time is mind-expanding. Having the clear stereo seperation phasing back and forth through you mind (what it sounds like) is electrifying!!!!
I work in digital audio now, and it has missed and pissed many of old-schoolers. Digital audio is really good now. My company is one of the best, but I'll digress on that.
Analog is the wave of the future. Not really, but it just sounds so good for audio. Hard to explain, but clearly audible. And Measurable!
Analog audio will have a market for a long time I think. Especially tube amplifiers.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
|
Tad, hold onto that Ampeg SVT head! Those things are want I want to 're-do' myself for my bass rig. I played through one once, blew my mind how it sounded. Hard and warm doesn't do it justice, you have to be there and hear it, feel it. Never heard a bass amp as badass as that. It was perfect!
But that's why I want to analyze that model. Prolly won't make it better, but may be able to dial down the wattage and maintain the same 'vibe'.
Tad the standard SVT is 400W, right, or 1000W or some insane sh#t?
I'm trying to buy a new house too, and hoping to get a good shop to get this sh#t going in. Housing market's a bitch right now....
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
|
i-b-goB, who are you?
Are you new? I don't care, just curious. Would we know you from before?
|
|
Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
|
|
|
Sep 20, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
|
Ampeg SVT!!!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
The second guitar solo at 2:54 is one of my all-time favorites... so much soul to it, even at mach 2!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
|
THx, gobi, that's what I thought. Seen the name around, didn't know why.
Back to the amps...
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Sep 20, 2016 - 11:18pm PT
|
I've decided that my best option all around is a Marshall JCM800 50W replica.
Well, we agree at a high level on what sounds good! In my digital amp simulator with more than 100 amps modeled in excruciating detail, the JCM800 is what I played with in rehearsal last night. Awesome crunchiness, great gritty cleans, and thick Santana-ish lead sounds all accessible from a single amp setting just controlled by volume knob on guitar.
I had made a separate tone based on a Mesa Mark IV for my cleans, with KT66 tubes replacing the stock, and it sounded great at home. But cranked up with the band it sounded thin and I quickly shifted back to using the JCM800 with the volume knob down on my guitar. It's a much warmer and cutting clean. For the crunchy tones, I don't use the preamp gain very high on the unit itself, but rather rely on an external boost before the amp (actually a "Trim" control added to the amp model). Heavenly sounding.
|
|
kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
|
|
|
Sep 21, 2016 - 10:37am PT
|
Dude,
If you want to make a realy cool/old school display for gain, etc, you should use nixie tubes! Best place to get them is to buy and old frequency counter. Don't just buy the tubes on fleabay as you'll spend way too much.
Also earlier you mentioned hardwood. Watch out don't go crazy and get bubinga wood or something similar - you will destroy many blades cutting this. I know this as a friend of mine made some speakers enclosures out of this and I heard the the saga of blade destruction throughout this project...
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
|
Kev, as for the hardwoods, they're prolly good acoustically for speaker cabinets. I would imagine.
For guitar amps, oak would be fine, I'd imagine. Especially with a good linseed oil/beeswax finish on it!. Pretty solid, somewhat easy to work with, and looks nice.
I love this stuff for a finish on oak. http://triedandtrue.biz/original.html
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Sep 21, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
|
It would be interesting to see a study of cabinet building techniques and insights people have had over time for tone shaping. The cabinet and speakers have a dramatic impact on the overall sound, as much as the amp itself and different BMT settings.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Sep 21, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
|
Open back cabs sound better to me in a small area!
Celestion Vintage 30 Guitar Speakers are boss!
And a cab make so it doesn't rattle and make unwanted noise!
Birch is a good wood to use!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
|
Gobe, roger that on the open-backed cabinets for small venues.
You think birch on material, huh? I have no idea really, but I'd think a denser (red oak) material may be better.
I have to research that, or just build a side-by-side spkr cabinet of both woods. Give one away.
The 30 degree (15 degree) slant of most cabinet fronts should be researched also. Again it all depends on the room you're designing it for. Small house jam, or a medium-sized club.
So many variables. I have a sense that wood-types will not have a big effect, but a heavy (oak) cabinet would be more solid, vibrate less.
Definitely open backed, but how much? I'll experiment with that, that's easy.
Cabinet front angle? Between 10 and 20 degrees is he most I'd think. Hold on!!!! I can make it f*#king adjustable, and still solid!!!! Or not. I'll look at the angle when I build it/them.
EDIT: Oh, I'm also planning on making the amplifier seperable from the cabinet. Kinda like a head and a cabinet. But I'll design the 'head' so that it fastens down hard to the cabinet with hand-bolts, so it's all together. A transportable one-piece unit. But also a switchable head or cabinet. You wan the birch cabinet at 15 degrees, or the mahogany cabinet at 10 degree?
And you could have people specify what specific stains (for your inventory) they want on their cabinet. Light/natural or a deep walnut, or whatever the really dark ones are?
I have organic stains that are baby safe for them to lick on too! Just keep their mouths off the tubes!!!!
Fun stuff!
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Sep 22, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
|
Just keep their mouths off the tubes!!!!
So I've been lurking here but that one had me choking on my ale... lol.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Sep 22, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
|
EL34's in action...
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2016 - 09:38pm PT
|
So I've been lurking here but that one had me choking on my ale... lol.
Things just sound weird sometimes. You know what I meant! Funny though....
EDIT:
Celestion Vintage 30 Guitar Speakers are boss!
I hear that too. But I have open ears, I need more suggestions!
Sprock? Ksolem knows his speakers! But Kris may not know instrument speakers.
Sprock? I hear EV makes some good replicas of the vintage speakers.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2016 - 10:59pm PT
|
wow, celestion G12H 55/75's are around 130 bucks each. I'll HAVE TO use one of each of those I think. I may buy a 3rd to tweak with.
These cabinets are gonna be expensive!
|
|
hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2016 - 01:09am PT
|
i get that this thread is about homebrew and experimentation.
i'm struggling just to follow along so haven't got much to offer, but this
http://www.sixstringsoul.com/guitar-equipment/electric-guitar-amps/
appears to be a compilation pointing to end products and behind each marquee
one can assume there are fellow travelers at the bench, and many iterations
that reflect the same investigative spirit that i benefit from as a listener
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
|
THanks for that, NutAGain!
Hooblie, I'll document the whole project. I might even share designs!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
|
Going with this design base.
Ihe input section is done.
Still trying to decide on a format for the whole shebang. 2 seperate unit? A combo unit?
A compromise where they fit together as a unit? THat's what I'm leaning on.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 65 of total 65 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!