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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 16, 2016 - 07:35am PT
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http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-doctor-looting-artifacts-20160815-snap-story.html
Mono County doctor pleads guilty to looting Native American artifacts from public lands
Jonathan Bourne
Online photos of Jonathan Bourne, an anesthesiologist at Mammoth Hospital, digging a wooden bow from a melting glacier in the High Sierra launched a yearlong investigation. (Bob Burd)
By Louis Sahagun
August 15, 2016, 4:50 PM
A Mono County doctor pleaded guilty Monday to two felony counts connected to the looting of Native American artifacts from public lands, including Death Valley National Park.
Jonathan Bourne, 59, an anesthesiologist at Mammoth Hospital, also agreed to pay $249,372 to cover the costs of curating and storing about 20,000 relics that federal agents found in his home overlooking the High Sierra community of Mammoth Lakes, U.S. Atty. Phillip A. Talbert said.
The case stems from a yearlong investigation by the U.S. Forest Service, National Park Service, Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that was launched after photos of Bourne digging a wooden bow out of a melting glacier in the High Sierra appeared on a hiking club website. Wooden splinters recovered at the glacier by federal archaeologists matched the bow in Bourne’s possession, officials said.
As part of his plea deal, Bourne will not be allowed on public lands administered by any of the four federal agencies; the period of the ban will be imposed Nov. 7 during sentencing in U.S. District Court in Fresno.
The Mammoth Mountain downhill and cross-country ski areas will also be considered off-limits, Talbert said.
Public lands within a one-mile radius of Bourne’s home were excluded so that he could attend to personal responsibilities including commuting to work and walking his dog, authorities said. However, the amateur botanist will not be allowed to collect mushrooms and other flora and fauna from any public lands.
In an earlier interview, Bourne declined to comment other than to say: "The blog has gotten me in trouble with the authorities. The bow in question has gotten me in trouble as well. It might have legal consequences."
A federal grand jury in 2015 charged Bourne with eight counts of unlawful transportation of archaeological resources removed from public lands; six counts of unauthorized excavation, removal, damage or defacement of archaeological resources removed from public lands; six counts of injury or depredation to government property; and one count of possession of stolen government property.
If convicted of all counts, Bourne would have faced up to 50 years in prison, according to the indictment. He also would have faced forfeiture of all vehicles and equipment used in connection with the violations.
Under the plea agreement, Bourne admitted to unlawfully removing glass trade beads in 2010 from a prehistoric cremation and burial site in the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest in Nevada. A year later, he unlawfully altered a prehistoric site in Death Valley National Park by removing a tool made from a bighorn sheep horn and three etched stone tablets considered sacred to the Timbisha Shoshone tribe.
Bourne faces a maximum statutory penalty of two years in prison and a $20,000 fine for each of the two felony counts. However, “the government has agreed not to request any time in custody for Mr. Bourne,” Lauren Horwood, a spokeswoman for the U.S. attorney’s office, said.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Aug 16, 2016 - 08:09am PT
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Thanks for posting this. I remember this case and it's good to see the outcome.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Aug 16, 2016 - 09:04am PT
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I always wonder in cases like this what motivates these guys to possess these items
They sell them on the black market.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Aug 16, 2016 - 09:16am PT
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Interesting story, and that this came to light via Bob Burd's 2014 Sierra Challenge. The LA Times photo is from Bob's report here:
http://www.snwburd.com/bob/trip_reports/divide_bm_1.html
just search the above page for "native american bow"
edit - pretty outrageous removing etched stone tablets from Death Valley! that is not at all ok.
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Aug 16, 2016 - 09:39am PT
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20,000 relics? He's an ass and got off easy.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Aug 16, 2016 - 10:04am PT
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If I took 20,000 pieces from a museum or gaured US Site would I get off as easy? Wonder if my employer would still pay me to work for them after I put their name out in this light? It's disgraceful what was done on both sides.
Peace
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John M
climber
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Aug 16, 2016 - 10:06am PT
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I'm not defending him, but if you have ever collected arrowheads, then you are guilty too. Every tiny bit and piece counts as one artifact. So a tiny box of bits and pieces of arrowheads could easily add up into the hundreds or even thousands. It never attracted me, but I have friends who have collected since they were little kids. It was fairly common 60, 70 or more years ago. One friend has a fairly large collection, but he also donates the best pieces to a museum. Most of those then go into boxes at the museum and are rarely ever seen again because most museums already have great pieces and you can only display so many. It is legal to collect on private property.
Me.. I prefer leaving them in place because its fun to spot them. It takes you back to a different time.
Again.. I am not defending this guy.
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Coach37
Social climber
Philly
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Aug 16, 2016 - 10:07am PT
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Wow. I had sympathy for the guy due to the size of the fine, thinking it was just the one thing, the bow. But thousands of artifacts? Different kettle of fish right there. And surely a doctor would be smart enough to know about antiquities act, NHPA, and NAGPRA.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 16, 2016 - 10:26am PT
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I'm glad that the artifacts will be curated/returned, etc., for proper preservation and the like. I don't really feel bad for this guy (apart from the fine), but, like John M, I kind of wonder at whether most would really be aware of the laws he or she would be breaking. I know ignorance of the law is no excuse, and 200,000 is a crazy amount of stuff, but there is a natural tendency to want to collect unique objects. We all do it. The history of civilization is ripe with examples of objects taken by and displayed by others. Ever been to the British Museum? A good outcome in this case in that the items are safe, but it's seems too easy to be too judgmental.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 16, 2016 - 10:52am PT
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I remember when everyone looked for arrowheads. The one thing that is probably OK about this guy is that he appeared simply to collect, rather than to sell in the black market. Still, it surprises me that a physician would act in either ignorance or defiance of a law almost everyone who uses the public lands knows and respects.
I think the relatively lenient penalty reflects the U.S. Attorney's office belief that the retention - rather than sale - of the artifacts, together with a quarter of a million dollar payment for curating them, together with felony convictions, together with a fine yet to be determined, constitutes sufficient punishment for what he did. It doubtless also reflects that he must have cooperated with authorities after the investigation started. The fact that the recovery of the bow was posted on a website is at least some evidence that he did not act in knowing violation of the law.
I don't know how the rest of you feel, but I know from personal experience that a federal felony conviction has lifelong, damning consequences. I'm not sure what would happen to someone who wasn't a wealthy physician who committed these acts, but based on my experience with the U.S. Attorney's office here, if that person was forthcoming and honest, and did what was in their power to rectify the situation, I suspect that person would face no detention either. If that person went to trial and lost, however, they'd be looking at a sentence of several years and a crippling fine.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 16, 2016 - 11:02am PT
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No, DMT. It's that professionals generally know the law better, and have much more to lose if they fail to follow it.
In addition, the training of physicians, in particular, involves an inculcation of duty that exceeds that of most other professions. I will admit, though, that in my "dorm" of 90 inmates at Taft, we had two physicians, a podiatrist, five attorneys, and numerous accountants -- but no dentists. So apparently dentistry attracts the most honest professionals.
John
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 16, 2016 - 11:08am PT
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It is unfathomable that a doctor, living in Mammoth Lakes, would be unaware that what he was doing is illegal. Guy is a jerk.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 16, 2016 - 11:15am PT
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People have always collected items from the past. Remember that the pillage of Egypt's antiquities was accepted for decades by the ultra-rich. The point at which grave robbing simply becomes collecting is merely a function of time and public sentiment.
The settlement seems fair. Sending him to prison would serve no good as he's not a threat. This way he has to fund his own little museum with artifacts that might have otherwise just been pocketed and lost or destroyed.
Another reason to never publicly to use "social media".
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 16, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
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I don't know how the rest of you feel, but I know from personal experience that a federal felony conviction has lifelong, damning consequences. I'm not sure what would happen to someone who wasn't a wealthy physician who committed these acts, but based on my experience with the U.S. Attorney's office here, if that person was forthcoming and honest, and did what was in their power to rectify the situation, I suspect that person would face no detention either. If that person went to trial and lost, however, they'd be looking at a sentence of several years and a crippling fine.
An additional penalty not mentioned here, is that the felony conviction will almost certainly result in a revocation of his license to practice medicine.
The average Anesthesiologist makes about $300,000 a year. Being a relatively young 59 y/o, it is likely that he would have had another 10 years of practice, so he would be forfeiting about 3 million dollars in potential salary.
BTW, I think he should also have been fined for the agency(s) payroll for the people who had to investigate and prosecute this case. Taxpayers should not have to pay for this.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Aug 16, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
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For sure give the artifacts to the proper authorities. The same authorities that committed a genocide in the first place and put those remaining into open air jails (reservations) Instead of wasting money on chasing artifact hunters use the money for native Americans, but it's always much easier to ignore our mess than clean it up.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 16, 2016 - 01:10pm PT
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He should take the Hillary defense that his intentions were good ones.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 16, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
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For sure give the artifacts to the proper authorities. The same authorities that committed a genocide in the first place and put those remaining into open air jails (reservations) Instead of wasting money on chasing artifact hunters use the money for native Americans, but it's always much easier to ignore our mess than clean it up.
Actually, no. They are all dead, and the current people are totally different.
Otherwise, we'd look at various Indian Nations based upon the atrocities of their forebears, and that is not how we should do things in America.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Aug 16, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
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I was curious, so just looked at my medical records from emergency knee surgery in 2014 at Mammoth hospital after I took a fall.
The dude was the anasthesiologist. Nice guy and seemed really competent.
He got called in from vacation for the surgery.
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
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http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me-artifacts-20150913-story.html
The original bust; and previously paid $1 million restitution for starting a fire.
Ancient finds, modern laws: U.S. investigates doctor over 30,000 artifacts
Artifacts
Photos of Jonathan Bourne, an anesthesiologist at Mammoth Hospital, appeared on a hiking-club website.
(Bob Burd)
Louis SahagunBy Louis Sahagun•Contact Reporter
September 12, 2015, 10:00 AM |Reporting from MAMMOTH LAKES, CALIF.
In one photograph, Dr. Jonathan Bourne crouches over an ancient wooden bow sticking out of a melting glacier in the High Sierra. In another picture, he is digging the bow out of the ice with a rock.
The photos of Bourne, an anesthesiologist at Mammoth Hospital, appeared on a hiking-club website — and soon, he had visitors.
Federal agents searched Bourne's mansion in December, recovering roughly 30,000 ancient items they believe were unlawfully taken from hundreds of public land sites across the West: stone mortars, glass beads, projectile points and pendants. They also seized logbooks containing details of his archaeological finds.
Bourne, 59, has not been charged. Federal authorities are only now close to finishing their investigation, said Michael Grate, a U.S. Forest Service special agent. Wooden splinters recovered at the High Sierra glacier by federal archaeologists matched the bow in Bourne's possession, officials said.
Bourne declined to comment other than to say: "The blog has gotten me in trouble with the authorities. The bow in question has gotten me in trouble as well. It might have legal consequences."
lSpecial Report
The FBI sting that tore a hole in a Utah town
The FBI sting that tore a hole in a Utah town
The investigation comes three years after Bourne's brother, Dr. Andrew Bourne, who served as chief of staff at Mammoth Hospital, committed suicide after his arrest on charges of illegal communications with a minor to facilitate sexual activity.
Mark Coleman, a Fresno attorney representing Jonathan Bourne, said his client is cooperating with investigators. "A large number of the artifacts he turned over to them were collected legally," Coleman said.
Bourne never intended to keep the bow, Coleman said. Instead, Bourne planned to "have a well known and respected archaeologist examine it, in hopes of determining what organization should receive the item," Coleman said.
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The website that carried the photos of Bourne's discovery included a post by Bob Burd, 58, a Fresno man who organized the hike into the Sierra National Forest.
Interested in the stories shaping California? Sign up for the free Essential California newsletter >>
According to the post, Burd was hiking down a mountain in the area Aug. 19, 2014, when Bourne shouted that "he had discovered a Native American bow sticking out from the ice and rock in what remained of a glacier."
"He immediately procured some stone tools to start chopping out the ice around the bow to extract it," Burd's post said.
Later that day, the post says, "Jonathan would only say that he had been mistaken about his find and that it turned out only to be a stick, though he couldn't say this without a grin on his face."
Bourne's attorney and Burd disagree on what happened that day.
Michael Karch, an orthopedist in Mammoth Lakes and one of Bourne's close friends, described him as a humanitarian, environmentalist and member of the nonprofit Mammoth Medical Missions, which provides disaster relief overseas. Karch said Bourne "planned to donate his collection to the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History when he died."
"This investigation is a waste of taxpayers' money," Karch said. "These are arrowheads, and they've been laying in the dirt for thousands of years."
That kind of talk rankles Craig Lee, an archaeologist with the University of Colorado and an expert in the study of ancient materials that are emerging from ice patches around the world as temperatures warm from global climate change.
"Permanent patches of ice and snow in the lower 48 states are only found on public lands," Lee said. "That means these naturally climate-controlled repositories of cultural artifacts are protected by federal law."
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The federal investigation is not the first time Bourne has run into trouble for his actions on public lands.
In 2011, Bourne and wife Penny paid $1-million restitution to the federal government for causing a fire in 2006 that burned about 7,435 acres of the Inyo National Forest. The fire was sparked by embers from a pit in which the couple had been burning brush.
Separately, in February, an Inyo County man was indicted on federal charges of excavating artifacts along the Eastern Sierra for decades despite objections by Native American leaders.
In 2013, thieves cut five petroglyph panels from an eastern Sierra site on Bureau of Land Management land north of Bishop. The panels were later recovered, but no arrests have been made.
Federal archaeologists and curators at Inyo County's Eastern California Museum are sorting through several thousand artifacts unlawfully collected by an Inyo National Forest district ranger who died in 1973.
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ruppell
climber
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Aug 16, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
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Yeah, if you're going to do things that are illegal don't post photos of it online.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Aug 16, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
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Johnathan is a friend... Peak bagger...Backcountry skier...X-country ski racer...Good guy , generous , to a fault always willing to help someone in need... Good at what he does in the medical field...If he has any faults , naivety might be it ...When Johnathan got busted , other collectors in town suddenly realized they could be prosecuted and hid their collections...Unfortunate situation...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Aug 16, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
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Jody..Smart ass...!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Aug 16, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
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LMAO..Good one Jody..
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 20, 2017 - 04:31pm PT
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Super nice guy
One of his frequent hiking partners was John Dittli, and the two would often race each other up a mountain. One day they stumbled on a five-year-old plane crash. Bourne started digging through the wreckage, but Dittli wanted to move on. "It was early in the day, and I wanted to finish before dark," he says. But Bourne kept at it until he found a gold wedding band, which he pocketed.
. . . .and quite the humanitarian
It also seemed that Bourne was using some of his overseas humanitarian and adventure trips as a front to buy and hunt for other objects. "Bourne gave us extremely rare things that are not found in North America," says BLM archaeologist Greg Haverstock, who was tasked with taking inventory of the cache. In fact, when Haverstock saw a Mesoamerican prismatic obsidian core that was about 10,000 years old, he suspected that Bourne had procured the artifact during a 2011 medical mission to Chiapas, Mexico. (Bourne says he bought it at a museum gift shop.)
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 20, 2017 - 04:42pm PT
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Super smart, too.
In 2006, Jon and Penny cleared some brush from the property and burned it in a pit. By law, they should have applied for a burn permit, but they hadn't. Embers from the fire ignited a blaze that spread into Inyo National Forest, raging for nine days and consuming 7,500 acres. The cost to fight it topped $1 million, and five years later, the Bournes paid a $1 million fine.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 20, 2017 - 07:29pm PT
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there are a few things wrong in that kiss and tell article with some ironic hypocrisy on behalf of one of the whistle blowers but anything to pump up a has been wanna- be... Glass houses and rock throwing...
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Apr 20, 2017 - 07:37pm PT
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Amazing stuff, Kief. . .
I hope they tail him on his travels because he'll probably continue
to do it. . .
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Apr 21, 2017 - 12:32am PT
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Sierra Bourne - Post up sistr
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Apr 21, 2017 - 02:45am PT
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So a guy collects trash discarded from a previous civilization that would lie in dirt, ice or rocks on public lands and otherwise be neglected and ignored, and he then catalogs it and displays it nicely as a homage of appreciation of earlier societies' technological prowess and craftsmanship, and he not only gets arrested for it but then fined? Why not just place the artifacts in a museum for others to appreciate? Those fines and possible jail sentences are a ridiculous miscarriage of justice. Unless he came from money, he's blown through a sizable chunk of his hard earned retirement savings as a doctor.
$1M for accidentally starting a fire from embers from your burn pit?
If this guy doesn't become a raging anti-government jihadist, he must be bitter as hell. $1.3M in fines for this government BS? Give the guy a break and focus on real criminals like the timber companies deforesting old growth, strip miners, petrol companies fracking and creating pipeline environmental disasters, and other forms of government sanctioned abuse of public lands and tax payer money. Sheesh!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 21, 2017 - 07:08am PT
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The Feds should have payed Dr. Bourne for saving the artifacts.. Johnathon didn't seem bitter when i talked to him last..
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Apr 21, 2017 - 08:26am PT
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Seriously?
The archaeological value of artifacts like that is frequently in being able to analyze them in the location they are discovered. Pretty sure he's not a professional archaeologist trained to do that. And it's not his call as a private citizen to remove the stuff an rob the rest of us from seeing it as it was found. Certainly not his call to do that in foreign countries. And while he might not have been reselling the stuff, he was hoarding it from public view...not putting it in a museum.
And yes, the fire might have been an accident...but they were at best avoiding the law if not actively breaking it by not getting a burn permit. There is a reason for permits like that...to make sure it's safe. Which, apparently it wasn't, and that cost the public a lot of money.
He may be a nice guy, and a good MD, but he deserves to be punished for these actions and I have zero sympathy.
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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Apr 21, 2017 - 09:40am PT
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There is that simple rule we all learned as children:
If it isn't yours, don't take it.
When I was actively doing archaeology, we were excavating a 2,000 year-old site. At one house site (the house was long gone, but the post holes and fire pit were evident) we found a collection of 5-7,000 year-old banner stones, neatly laid out on what had been a deer hide. Banner stones are the often beautifully-carved and polished "kick" stones used on atlatls, to give the throw a kick as the stone slides up the shaft of the atlatl. An extra punch of acceleration, if you will. Someone who was alive 2,000 years ago had collected these 5,000+ year-old artifacts, and displayed them. We named that house site "pothunter's pad" in wry comment on the entire collecting impulse which is probably common to all humans and and other living things as well. (Think of pack rats.)
That collection of banner stones is in a museum now. Many of the artifacts from the Hopewell era (ca. 2,000 years ago) were collected by one particular professional archaeologist, and many of those artifacts are in the Gilcrease, but a good number were purchased by a Swedish collector for notable prices. When a scholar wants to study artifacts from this particular time and place, the scholar would need to go to Oklahoma (Gilcrease) and Stockholm to gain a clear sense of the artifacts used by people of that time, as well as to a few museums around the country.
As archaeologists, we pretty much knew who had private collections open for study, and appreciated the opportunity to examine the pieces. There were private collections to which we have gained access only by swearing never to disclose the owner or location of their collections. Most of these collections are from private land, but how does one make a distinction after the piece has been carried away?
If the guy was not selling and kept good field notes, and was leaving it all to some museum as an intact and documented collection, where such stuff mostly molders in archival boxes, often poorly cataloged as well, I'm not so upset about this as the government seems to be. There is so much out there, all over the place, it is hard to get very exercised about one collector and one collection. I know there is dramatic umbrage about pot hunters, but sometimes they are incredibly helpful in establishing the locations of sites, and in sharing data and even artifacts with archaeologists.
ff
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Apr 21, 2017 - 10:00am PT
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The case stems from a yearlong investigation by the U.S. Forest Service, National Park Service, Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
Case of the kettle calling the pot black? We can destroy nature because we have the authority: BLM, USFS, Corps of Destruction.
Just saying. Technically, who did the guy actually injure? The punishment is unjust. Not saying he was right.
Technically, the Natives own this land. Stoopid Americans.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Apr 21, 2017 - 10:07am PT
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I suppose it's fine to disagree with the law and defend grave robbers if you have that view, but the statues on this are pretty clear and were pretty clearly violated.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 21, 2017 - 10:25am PT
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Dr. Bourne raced in the local bike races...He'd be on call and would have a hospital issued radio in his jersey pocket... One day my friend Brent covered his mouth with his hand and mimiced the squelch of a radio call repeating " Dr. Bourne " several times.. Jonathon stopped and listened to the radio then sprinted back to the pack ...Brent repeated the phony radio call a second time and Johnathon pulled off , listened , then sprnited back to the group saying that he thought the hospital was trying to reach him...Yuk , yuk.. I'm not condoning grave robbery but there's more to the picture than meets the eye here.. I think Jonathan , an Aussie , is a little like a Crocodile Dundee type living in American culture without completely adapting ..
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 21, 2017 - 12:54pm PT
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^^^
Sound more like he didn't want to adapt or didn't care. The story you tell about the bike race says alot. If he believes something worthy of his attention, he gives a lot of it; if he doesn't, then he doesn't. It appears he simply didn't care that this was not his stuff. I get the whole collecting bug and coveting rare objects. I just bought some cheap fossils from a rock shop near Zion. But that story about going through the plane wreck and stealing the dead pilots ring just shows he doesn't give a f&$#. Like many people who got themselves into a mess over one's head, he's got himself to blame.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 21, 2017 - 01:42pm PT
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We need Ron Anderson and what's his name, the old troll from Idaho in here to defend the doc!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Apr 21, 2017 - 02:44pm PT
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Once he removed the bow in such crude fashion he probably destroyed the provenance (provenience). By not carefully documenting everything in situ, you permanently lose some really important contextual data.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 21, 2017 - 10:22pm PT
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I think Jonathan , an Aussie , is a little like a Crocodile Dundee type living in American culture without completely adapting ..
SHould have known, an IMMIGRANT! Another IMMIGRANT outrage, of them sacking our country!
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dit
Mountain climber
eastside
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Interesting observations. As Hauter mentions, Jon has very good traits, but that doesn't, nor should it, preclude him from the penalties from knowingly looting antiquities from all of us.
As for "whistle blowers", there were none. Jon was filmed digging up artifacts. Like a person that is caught on surveillance footage pouring Coke into a Jerry can, authorities over time will see the evidence; Glass houses indeed.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dit... If i remember correctly another acquaintance of yours has a collection of artifacts... Just wondering if you nipped that friendship in the bud...? Probably not and rightfully so...We both know how over-exuberant Jonathon can be and maybe you feel like i do that maybe if we hit him over the head with a club and told him what he was doing was wrong we wouldn't be having this discussion...? Just saying...And Ekat....You're a big Jew...
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dit
Mountain climber
eastside
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May 10, 2017 - 06:49am PT
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Don't believe everything you read Hauter. I have no more "nipped in the bud" my friendship with Jon than I have with you though I certainly have reason too. While I no doubt have many friends that have "collections" as you call them, I'm not sure who you refer to. That said, there are "collections" and there is systematic looting of graves and other archeological sites; I don't condone either and I make that pretty clear to my friends. In other words, I don't appreciate people ripping off our (my) public property (or dumping coke in my gas), so those "friends" that do so aren't likely to show off their collections to me.
I had the conversation of the legal and moral implications with regard to surface collecting more than once with Jon (I had no idea he was a looter) but it always fell on deaf ears as you can imagine. Still, he would never collect in my presence; probably because he got tired of me harping on him.
Many, if not all, of the tribes that Jon ripped off also don't feel like the "club" as you say, was big at all and were disappointed in the sentencing. I think when Jon feels enough remorse to make a public apology, perhaps then we won't have to worry about more artifacts ending up at his home.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 10, 2017 - 08:46am PT
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And Ekat....You're a big Jew...
WTF???
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 10, 2017 - 10:03pm PT
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Dit... Read Bullwinkles post... As we all know indigenous people were re-located to open air prisons called reservations... How do we know grave sights were being looted....? Were there signs in 5/16 raised braille spelling whitey don't loot ...? Jonathon Cornelieus is a mad scientist - archeologist , eccentric , philanthropist and maniac... If he was committing a felony would he have allowed himself to be filmed...? Was he earning income selling the artifacts..? Would i have dumped coke into your jerry can if i was being filmed...? Is Ekat really a big Jew..? I get the grave looting out rage but calling Jonathan a felon might be a stretch...
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dit
Mountain climber
eastside
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May 12, 2017 - 04:27pm PT
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fel·on1 ˈfelən/ noun 1. a person who has been convicted of a felony.
At last count I believe Jon was charged with 27 felonies and tried and convicted of three, so yes, a felon.
“How do we know grave sights [sic] were being looted….?” For some light reading try the investigative reports and the court records; you may need a FOIA request.
As for the rest of your questions, the answer is “yes” to all but perhaps the reference to braille and Ekat. Are you suggesting that somehow Jon, one of the most intelligent (not to be confused with smart) and read men you probably know, some how missed the part about it being a felony to dig up burials, excavate archeological sites in National parks and possess close to 100,000 artifacts stolen from public lands? What, he thought that was a misdemeanor? Somehow through all his research and as an “archeologist” as you call him, he has never heard of or read the Antiquities Act or ARPA? (some more night time reading for you).
No, I’m afraid people regularly commit crimes in front of witnesses; the mass murderer sends clues, the drunk driver keeps drinking and driving. Mostly done out of obsession, addiction or narcissism. At some point it catches up with them and then it takes down the entire family. I know of a guy that the community has amassed a lot of evidence against, but no one has come forth with it because they don’t want his only child to bare that stigma. With luck he’ll get the message, Jon unfortunately didn’t.
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