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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 15, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
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Does anyone do it? Have pictures? I am not a scuba diver but I have been to a lot of really pretty high lakes and always wondered about the views beneath the surface. Between Ouray and Silverton off the alpine loop there is Lake Como. Apparently it's incredibly deep. Do people dive in places like this? Would love to see some pictures or read some stories.
Cheers, y'all!
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Aug 15, 2016 - 04:05pm PT
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People do dive at altitude, but the decompression tables change significantly if you get very high. Make sure you're aware of this if you try.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
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Interesting link. Like I said, I am not a scuba diver, just curious to hear from people who are. Figured there might be a niche for diving high alpine lakes. Lots of them seem pretty shallow.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Aug 15, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
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A month or so ago I stumbled across a forum post or blog about scuba diving in Tulainyo Lake just north of Mount Whitney. I don't remeber, exactly, but it was interesting. When I'm on a real computer instead of my phone I'll see if I can rustle it up.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 15, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
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Never done it and no clue. Used to scuba dive; the rack is pretty heavy.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Aug 15, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
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I've been diving on/off for 20 years. Diving at altitude, as others have said, significantly changes the game. It's not hard, but requires more in-depth training, especially if you get into breathing Nitrox.
Do you REALLY want to lug scuba gear up to high alpine lakes!? There's really not much to see unless there is wreckage.
Spend your money, time, and energy diving in the ocean which is incredibly beautiful. I've dived around the world and my favorite area is California and the Channel Islands. Second to that is Guam, which has a high concentration of wreck diving.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Aug 15, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
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Paul, is on the right track here. In an alpine lake, you're not going to get to play with big animals.
In October, we interacted with Sharks.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
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That shark in the first photo looks like it is grinning. Good stuff!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Aug 15, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
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I don't know about high altitude diving, but...
Way, way, way back in the dark ages I spent my summers guiding wilderness canoe trips in northern Canada, on the Churchill River. Now the Churchill River is interesting for two reasons. First, it's not really a river, but rather a thousand-mile-long chain of lakes connected by rapids of varying length. Second, it was the original highway across Canada. It was up and down the Churchill that the fur traders traveled, from Hudson Bay to what is now the Alberta/Saskatchewan border.
And those fur traders carried all sorts of interesting sh#t. Day-to-day living equipment, trading supplies, guns... Just like us, they had to deal with the rapids. And just like us, they sometimes tried to paddle a rapid they should have portaged, and all that interesting sh#t went to the bottom.
So, I'm not sure when, maybe 30 or so years ago, somebody got the idea that it might be interesting to dive at the point where rapids emptied into the next lake.
You can guess the rest.
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knucko
climber
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Aug 15, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
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Early 2000's partner and I hiked up to the Incredible Hulk...just as we were about to get to basecamp two people were hiking out carrying scuba gear. Odd site to see for sure!
Turns out one of the two people had a brother disappear a year earlier and she was out looking?? Not sure what lake they were at but it was near the Hulk.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 15, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
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So 25 years ago I was going to spend some time scuba diving Marlette Lake (prob 7500') near Tahoe and Flume Trail in the hope of finding any interesting historical artifacts (paiute, chinese, troglodyte, etc), then I learned it was a man-made lake and we sort of lost interest because of other things, I guess. Totally doable though if for whatever reason it's somebody's interest.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Aug 15, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
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In the early 60s Jeff Foott decided there had to be some old bottles and collectables scattered around the Gaylor Lakes that are close to The Great Sierra Consolidated Silver Mine.
He lugged in all the scuba gear but had little luck.
However as he came out of the water in an area where the trail is right next to the lake, outfitted in a dark black wet suit, tanks and all the assorted paraphernalia one requires, an elderly couple that were hiking along in pure solitude were surprised, freaked out and ran away.
Visions of the Creature From the Black Lagoon?
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Aug 15, 2016 - 06:59pm PT
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Great story, wish I could've witnessed that!
Peace
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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Aug 16, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
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I've been diving longer than I have been climbing and that's a long time.I have not done a lot of dives at high altitude, but have enjoyed a few. As is mentioned up-thread; high altitude diving requires close attention to dive tables. Gas absorption happens differently under different atmospheric pressures, so dive time is shorter and decompression time longer.
My high altitude dives have been limited to relatively shallow depths to avoid decompression, and water temperature has shortened dive times. By limiting depth and dive times most problems can be avoided, but the use of Ha conversion charts is highly recommended.
On of the best dives I have ever done was in Tenaya Lake during a major thunderstorm. Of course I was breaking one of the most important rules of diving by diving alone (I would never free solo either): Two if you count diving in a T-storm. My max depth was 35 feet, which if I remember correctly is the equivalent of 56 feet at sea level calculated on HA dive charts. The water was very cold and my air consumption was approximately double that at sea level. I lay on the bottom at 35' in the dark, but when the lightening flashed everything lit up and I could see the drowned trees looming like the ribs of sunken ships.
For an advanced diver I see no problems other than the ones listed above, and the large amount of fishing line litter in most lakes. A sharp knife or two is essential.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
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Ghost, super interesting. Are there any links to that story somewhere?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 16, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
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It's do-able, this can get you really f*#ked up at altitude with no meds around.
Important to have a certified Dive Master around. Multitudes of dives in their belt and additional training. This get
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 16, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
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Sadly, so many of the lakes here are chock full of fishermen's garbage....line....beer bottles....bait containers....and various dropped boat parts. Its really sad.
Off topic: Yeah, the trash in the sierra lakes from "fishermen" is pretty gross.
On topic: if you can drive to the lake sounds like good time. if you have to lug all the crap to an alpine lake, not so much.
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Aug 16, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
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A friend of mine would go snorkeling in the popular fishing lakes armed pliers.
He would come back with a bag of bootie lures. The fishermen loved him.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 16, 2016 - 09:34pm PT
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i heert tell of underground lakes at altitude. i, PADI adv opendork, finally see worthiness of altitudinous SCUBz
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 16, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
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Once in a while someone will post inquiring about the climbing in Cabo or Costa Rica and many replies are don't waste your time, go surfing instead.
It's kind of like that. If you are at high altitude go climbing.
I've only dove once at altitude. It was fun and I'd do it again. And I've done a few cold water ocean dives with 5mm+ wetsuits. But it makes me think that if I'm planning a dive trip I'm going to Hawaii or someplace where I don't have to struggle into and out of a thick wetsuit and still freeze my ass off when I first get in.
It's fun and experience and all, but give me warm water, lots of colorful wildlife, and lava tubes to swim through.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 16, 2016 - 09:47pm PT
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I dove in OC in the 80s with a guy who worked with NASA in a tank of water to simulate space and how they would put the space station together. It was originally in Denver, but they ended up moving it to socal because of the decompression issues
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Aug 17, 2016 - 04:46am PT
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There have been some high-altitude diving at high lakes in Mexico (if I recall correctly, > 12,000 feet).
Tulainyo Lake is one of the highest major lakes in North America, and people have been diving there, but no one has gone deep.
Gear and decompression tables are the biggest challenges.
The water is really cold, so in addition to tanks, cold water regulators, etc., you need a dry suit. Any while you're there, how about an underwater camera?
There is no data on how to adjust the tables for recreational no-decompression dives. And there is no real data on how to adjust the decompression tables, either, so it's a crap shoot. Better have a tank of oxygen just in case you get bent (more gear to carry).
I have always wanted to explore the bottom of Tulainyo Lake. It would take a train of pack mules to get all of the gear anywhere near that lake.
Topsy Turvy lake is another place that I would like to dive (c. 10,800 feet).
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Poseidon
Mountain climber
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Sep 25, 2016 - 11:22pm PT
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There isn't any life, essentially, in high altitude lakes. With the exception of Lake Tahoe, which is a known dive site, most of them are off limits and usually not worth the hassle. Topography in Lake Tahoe may be of interest; sheer walls resembling canyons and visibility of 90 plus feet. Some may find treasure hunting and salvaging near marinas quite fun. There are plenty of anchors for small boats for the taking along with an occasional iphone and a few sun glasses. If you are into cray fish you may find it worth your time as well. I say , save your air for salt water! If you absolutely have to see what's in those lakes , I recommend donning a wet suit and surface snorkeling. There will be plenty of ambient light to see some lake grass and a tadpole or two. hahahahahaha
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Poseidon
Mountain climber
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Sep 25, 2016 - 11:26pm PT
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It's funny how some people on here give advice about something they have no clue about. If you don't know just don't say anything and confuse others. Saying something that you have no idea about does not add to your credibility.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Sep 26, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
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Okay I feel a few things need to be corrected because a lot of what people have been posting is just wrong.
1) When diving at altitude you actually are absorbing less nitrogen because there is less pressure. Why is this true you ask - well at sea level there is a huge column of air and there is pressure. In fact we call that pressure 1 Atmosphere (1 ATM). It turns out that 1 ATM is the same amount of pressure that a 33 foot column of sea water exerts. So at 33 feet under sea water you are at 2 ATMs. Okay now go up to the sierras - now you have a shorter column of air on you so there is less pressure - you don't have a whole ATM of pressure on you.
1b) What's the issue with diving at altitude then? There are two issues. First you're depth measurement device (depth guage or dive computer) was calibrated for sea level - you've got to correct for this. The second problem is that when you surface you don't have 1ATM of pressure so the relative pressure change (the gradient) is larger.
2) The math is simple to adjust for this - the basic model for nitrogen absorption for the human body is requires understand nothing more than freshman chemistry and a little basic physics and calculus.
3) There are diving tables for for diving at altitude.
4) There are conversion factors to use regular tables
5) Dive computers will adjust for this (you've just got to tell them your at altitude)
6) PADI (the worlds biggest scuba certifier) even has a class for this.
7) Why would you want to dive at altitude? Who knows we all do some strange ass sh#t.
8) It too cold - nah just suck it up or get a drysuit.
Okay I'll stop rambling now.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Sep 26, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
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Oh there is a B-29 in lake mead that was located in the last 10-20 years or so. Not sure of the elevation at lake mead but that's been on my to do list for a little while. It (the plane) used to be pretty deep (200ish) but I think it's way less due to many years of drought.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Sep 26, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
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Rebreathers... discuss...
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BFK
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Sep 26, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
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My sister and her husband are on the leading edge of Closed-Circuit-Rebreather (CCR) diving. They specialize in wreck diving off the Northeast and have made several discoveries. Her team's most notworthy discovery was the YF-415, a munitions ship that went down off of the coast of MA in 1944 with the whole crew (pretty heady dive to get the engine plates off and prove it was the YP-415)
In addition to running a wreck diving charter, they also teach several tech diving courses and are certified CCR instructors for the Hollis Prism 2 and SMI Prism Topaz basic MOD 1.
Here is her site:
http://northernatlanticdive.com/
Any climbers interested in a dive or a course should PM me and I'll get you the 'family' discount (Which might only be worth a cup of dunkin donuts coffee lol).
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