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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 11, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
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I'm going to be in the Tetons next week and want to do a peak scramble with my 11 year old. Something fourth or low fifth class, hopefully with a roped section or two for added excitement. I've been looking at Teewinot and Disappointment Peak. The Internet is all over the place on the difficulty of Teewinot so I'm assuming route finding might be hard?
Any thoughts on these or other suggestions?
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 11, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
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Only been there twice and was years ago. Teewinot is good. Mt. Moran might be another option. The approaches can be burly. On both peaks the routefinding is pretty straight forward if you scope them well.
edit: no clue about Disappointment.
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clode
Trad climber
portland, or
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Aug 11, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
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Moran is a BIG adventure, with a huge approach, huge descent, and non-trivial technical climbing. Teewinot is a much more reasonable day adventure. There is even a class 4 way to the top. You might also consider Buck Peak, in the southern part of the range. A mellow, yet 12K+ high point, with great views. Ah heck, they ALL have great views! Just watch out for Tuolumne-like afternoon T-storms!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 11, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
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clode-
That may be the reason I failed on Moran. I was tuckered out by the time I got to the base of the real climbing. Was just giving this a bump. Locals can provide better info than I can.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 11, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
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Teewinot is a LONG grind (for normal human beings), so hope your son is up for that. My suggestion would be a route on Symmetry Spire, which has a much better defined and less aerobic approach + a nice boat ride across Jenny Lake and excellent views from nice rock.
But then I never had the energy nor capability to romp up Teewinot in two hours.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Aug 11, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
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Teewinot is good fun. Check and see if you'll want an ax to cross the snow field. It was recommended when I did it years ago and lost his ^^^ :-)
Curt
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 11, 2016 - 03:01pm PT
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^^^ He bought me a new and better one!
;>)
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clode
Trad climber
portland, or
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Aug 11, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
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Teewinot is definitely the full meal deal, a dawn-to-dusk adventure for most mortals. The Symmetry Spire suggestion is a good one, and if you're fast you can add in Ice Point and Storm Point for a great peak-bagging day.
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Aug 11, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
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East ridge of Buck would be a nicer excursion with an 11 year old . It has much more diverse hiking than Teewinot which is a head down slog. The east ridge has a pleasant exposed feel for part of it. Big view from the top down in to Avalanche canyon and beyond.
Symmetry is a good choice as well but doesn't have a big mountain feel like buck.
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clode
Trad climber
portland, or
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Aug 11, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
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Right on Norm!^^^
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2016 - 03:21pm PT
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Thanks all!
I've climbed Moran- one of my all time favorites but it's way too big of an outing for a family vacay and my son! The East Ridge of Buck looks just about perfect--some scenic scrambling with a section or two justifying breaking out a rope for my kid.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Aug 11, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
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Teewinot is good. Mostly hiking, but there is some 4th/5th toward the top depending on route finding. You get a great view of the Grand, and the summit is nice. Not a bad day if you get going early.
We did run into a cow moose with calves in the evening. Made for an interesting finish ;-)
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 11, 2016 - 03:27pm PT
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We did run into a cow moose with calves in the evening. Made for interesting finish ;-)
Tell us the story......
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 11, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
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[heavy breathing]
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Aug 11, 2016 - 03:36pm PT
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Thanks for this thread gang. I almost took my kids to Tetons this summer, will probably do so next summer. It's always tricky to find something that is a big commitment to appropriately challenge kids for their level of development vs. a traumatic experience that turns them away from more of the same.
I'm bookmarking this for specific objectives next year.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Aug 11, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
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While we were coming down the trail in the dark (late start and no headlamps), we thought we noticed a particularly large, dense, black, shape in the trail ahead. We came to a halt, and peered into the darkness. As our eyes adjusted and the silence became almost complete, we could hear snorting, and see the outline of a really big moose (no rack) dead ahead. Soon, some smaller shapes appeared milling about behind the rather imposing hulk. We very quietly considered our options:
A. Go straight forward and probably get stomped. Tempting, in that we really needed herbs, beer and food (in that order)
B. Go back up the trail and hope to find a fork (could not remember how far back and up that would be, or where it might lead)
C. Quietly slip off the trail and down the slope to the left, bushwhacking through brambles, deadfall and whatever, and then try to regain the trail below, sans pissed off mama moose
We chose C, and figured the scratches and extra time were a good trade off to getting pummeled.
Postscript
This was supposed to be our "rest day" during a trans-continental bike ride. While relaxing at Jenny Lake in the morning, we kept looking up at Teewinot and saying "damn, that looks nice..." It was a spontaneous decision, and we didn't really think it all the way through ;-) That being said, it was a great day, and definitely worth it.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 11, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
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cool story! betcha carry a headlamp religiously since!
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Aug 11, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
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I did the E ridge of Buck when I was a kid, maybe 15 or so. It was not too long or difficult, as I recall. Saw a couple of horned owls on the walk through the forest. Also did the ridge on Moran that the plan crashed on (NE?). That was a _long_ outing.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 11, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
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^ What is the point of that post?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 11, 2016 - 11:34pm PT
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Mt. Moran (presumably the CMC route) is not appropriate.
Teewinot is mostly scrambling with some fourth-class steps---unless you get off-route. The elevation gain is 5,550 feet. There have been many accidents over the years when there is snow on the East face, so check with the rangers about that. The summit is spectacular. You can get an idea of the terrain from the photos on SummitPost at http://www.summitpost.org/east-face/165438 . It is very easy to underestimate a long easy climb like this. If it was me, I'd want another adult along.
Disappointment Peak by the SE Ridge is also a slog, more of it on the trail (to Ampitheater Lake) and then by the 4th class SE ridge.
Symmetry Spire, presumably by the Durrance, is 10 pitches of fifth-class climbing up to Teton 5.6. This is far harder than Teewinot and Disaapointment technically. Again, I'd want another adult.
I don't think there's anything, other than some class 2 like South Teton, I'd really want to be the only adult on (mind you, there are plenty of things I'd solo, but being responsible for a kid is much more demanding than soloing).
Something lower-key that might fit the bill is the East Ridge of Cube Point, a bracing hike up Hanging Canyon followed by 3--5 pitches with some Teton 5.4. Nice view of the North aspects of the Grand, Owen, and Teewinot. Once again, check whether there is snow in the East Couloir descent route. A detour up to Lake of the Crags would be a worthy addition if the day proves short.
(Image from SummitPost http://www.summitpost.org/cube-point/594679 )
Rock of Ages above Lake of the Crags
(Image from SummitPost http://www.summitpost.org/lake-of-the-crags/472534/c-472528 )
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 11, 2016 - 11:53pm PT
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Yeah, probably pressed it with the Moran recommendation. Long time ago and my memory ain't what it used to be.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Aug 12, 2016 - 01:04am PT
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Surely you're not talking about the North Face of Teewinot? Remember that was a long day's journey into the night. Summiting at sunset set the stage for some late night work sleeping in a creek.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Aug 12, 2016 - 01:27am PT
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The point of the Teewinot accident/death post is probably appreciated by any parent. It's a cautionary reminder that 4th class can be serious (easy to overestimate what kids can handle, when to rope up), especially if your route finding skills are not up to par. Even if you have the sense to realize you are off route, you can burn a lot of time backtracking and figuring out the right way and get benighted with little ones in tow. Not necessarily a disaster, but it's good to have a sense of the magnitude of the planned adventure and make sure all members of the party can cope with it.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Aug 12, 2016 - 03:38am PT
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If you get it just right teeweniot is a a steep doable easy solo. but it is definatly a solo. get it wrong and you could easily get into steep slabs.......
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2016 - 07:59am PT
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Thanks again everyone. Yeah, my concern with Teewinot was that it sounds like a wide range in difficulty depending on what appears to be not obvious route finding. Also there are better options and something on a ridge will avoid wandering around / backtracking looking for the right route.
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rbob
climber
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Aug 12, 2016 - 08:17am PT
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Teewinot routefinding is pretty straightforward for someone with any mountain sense. After crossing the snowfields, there is an obvious weakness right up the middle of the face that trends up / right. I think most accidents + route finding mistakes are from folks with little / no experience "reading" technical terrain.
It's a great objective, but it is a slog (as seemingly most things are in the tetons). I would definitely bring a half rope to short rope the little one in sections. If nothing else, some mental security for both of you.
The views from the summit are insane. Great fun.
I would encourage you to do this, but pack some reserve snacks in the backpack for the inevitable bonk on the way down. Kids are not the best at knowing how to take care of themselves nutritionally on longer days out.
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Aug 12, 2016 - 09:28am PT
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Yes, E face of Teewinot is a long haul: 5000 some feet vertical from Lupine Mds, so a 10000 vertical day total. This time of year, lots of loose scree on 3rd/4th ledges up higher...be careful.
Disappointment SE ridge is less 4th class, maybe 4500ft vertical gain (better check that), not as much loose crap lying around. The East Ridge of Disappointment (II 5.6) is really great and if you wander off to either side, can make it a little easier. Short, to the point, good rock for the Tetons, minimal objective dangers.
Buck Mtn, either the East Face (3rd) or esp the East Ridge (4th) are good, but again about 5000 ft elevation gain. Might want to take an ice ax for the E Face, I went up it 3 weeks ago and was glad I had one...though it has been very warm and the snow field may be gone by now. Nonetheless, Buck is a fine day in the mtns: great views.
Moran, yes, it's a grunt. That's a big piece of mountain.
The NW couloir of Nez Perce (4th) ends on a smallish summit with nice views and few people (you can watch the line going to the Grand down below). Not as high a summit as some and a bit of loose rock in spots, but nicely doable from Lupine Mdws in a day and you'll probably be the only ones on it. I rather liked it anyway.
Have fun and be careful!
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 12, 2016 - 10:54am PT
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I think Teewinot, depending on the kid, might be a bit much. Beats up most adults. Long day.
Buck is long too. Doable as an overnighter but its a darn long day hike.
St. John is a good option. No fifth class, but, a rope for the kid on the upper part of the mountain would be prudent. Great views. Route finding not that big a deal. Its a day, but, not super long and if you bail, you still get to see Hanging Canyon.
A short fun option would be Ice Point, if you don't mind belaying and leading the "4th class" that is the summit pitch. The summit of Storm Point is neat too. Symmetry is a much longer gig by any route, and, the grind up the gully is no fun (of course you'll do a bit of it to get over to Ice and Storm Point).
Lake Ledges on Disapppointment might be good, especially as an over nighter.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 12, 2016 - 11:34am PT
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Did Teewinot about a month ago -- brought an ice axe and used it for the snow field, but that may not be necessary now, of course check current conditions.
I would think it would be very challenging for most 11 year old kids and maybe a little too much. But the crux (4th Class section) is pretty high on the route and it's a worthy hike to the "Apex" and the towers above, so it could be a reasonable idea to head up and see how it goes. From my Colorado perspective, I'd say the physical difficulty is comparable to a pretty stout Colorado 14er, if that's of any help, and the climbing is probably more challenging than the easiest route any Colo. 14er.
I would not recommend soloing it to people who don't have basic rock climbing skills and are ready to use them in a somewhat dangerous environment--aside from the horrific double fatality, I got the sense from talking to the rangers that it's a scene of frequent mishaps. It's the type of hike/climb where you definitely want to be paying attention.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Aug 12, 2016 - 11:43am PT
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It is a long day, but rbob is right. There is an obvious line trending right to the summit, which is a real alpine summit with fantastic views. There a couple of short 4th/5th steps to work over, and you have to come back down them as well. You need to judge if your 11 year old is up for that. If you take a short cord and a couple of pieces you should be fine.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Aug 12, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
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I did not find Teewinot to be straightforward. Granted, I didn't have a guidebook description and just started hiking up from the trailhead, as I heard it was "just a scramble". The steep snow slopes down low definitely gave me pause in my running shoes...a slip could have been fatal, and I was concerned about descending the slopes on the way down.
I initially went too far to climber's right out onto a 5th class ridge (exposed airy but easy 5th class climbing that I backed off of), then retreated back a bit to a chimney system and climbed past a few sets of rap slings (clearly off route, but I had all day and was enjoying exploring and getting a good workout).
Again I retreated back across slabs to the correct groove that I should have stayed in originally and moved climber's right to the summit, but instead of going right, I took 4th class blocks to climber's left. I topped out on a lesser summit peak several hundred feet below the main summit. It would have been a long detour back down then up to reach the true summit.
All and all a good fun "rest day". It really made me want to get the big guidebook and read about some of the different routes that I was on/near, as it was a great peak for adventure mountaineering.
Also, be aware that when storms arrive, they often come from the opposite side of the mountain thus you sometimes you can't see the clouds approaching. It would be very bad to be caught up high in a thunderstorm there, as lightning strikes come all the way down past the tree line, and some of the descent slabs could equal death if wet.
The article about the fatalities was a justified and important post.
I've been to the Tetons 3 times and have always been amazed at hour fast thunderstorms can come from "out of nowhere" fast. In addition, many approaches/descents that had me cross steep snow slopes or moderate 4th class terrain made me realize how easy it is to bite it in that range even before or after one has done their main climb.
When I got back to the climber's ranch, a guy who had just done the Grand Traverse told me he'd had a similar experience of getting offroute on Tweeniot, and he definitely felt sketched descending some 5th class variations and 4th class slab.
Be safe. Have fun. Return alive.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Aug 12, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
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...I took 4th class blocks to climber's left. I topped out on a lesser summit peak several hundred feet below the main summit. It would have been a long detour back down then up to reach the true summit.
I made exactly that same mistake. But I did do the detour back down and then summited, once I saw what I had done.
Curt
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 12, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
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The Tetons can be tricky. A strong hiker with little climbing experience beyond scrambling solos the OS http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Grand-Teton-Unroped/t12030n.html, and an IFMG guide dies on the same route http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2848971/Exum-Guide-Dies-On-Grand-Today .
Storms are one issue, and you won't see them coming on any routes from the East side of the range. The rock isn't perfect, but beyond that it is kind of "jumbly" and so surprising hard to read, in my opinion. Climbs that should be easy can turn harder because of weather or because of easy-to-make route misjudgements. Third and fourth-class climbing can be fifth class if you are just a tiny bit off the proper track. For those easy climbs, roped technique requires the ability to very quickly find and utilize old-fashioned braced belays, you can't always or won't even be able to set up three-piece cordelette-equalized anchors.
If you are soloing, that's fine, it's all on you. If you are with a child, you are either soloing with someone attached to you, or climbing unroped with no ability to intervene in a momentary lapse. For all these reasons, I still think a competent second adult is the way to go.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 12, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
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Rich posted a photo of Rock of Ages, which is a fun scramble with a touch of fifth class. The approach is straightforward and you get up into the clear Teton air once on the final block.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2016 - 11:18pm PT
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Thanks again for all the thoughtful replies! I have some homework to do re a route selection.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 16, 2016 - 05:11pm PT
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Disappointment Peak is a grand day hike. A little 3d/4th scrambling getting up the slabs at the South end of Amphitheater lake otherwise just a fine hike with one "move" onto the summit block. Some route finding involved.
Spectacular views.
You may want a short, light rope to help your son down the slabs (descend the same way you ascended).
Off topic: the Spoon Couloir on the right side of Amphitheater Lake is a fine warmup early season snow climb.
Regarding StahlBro's moose adventure: The best advice for off trail travel is to make lots of noise. Surprising a moose or bear is definitely not a good idea. Wear a bear bell, talk a lot, have your bear spray handy just in case. Keep your son near.
Buck Mountain is a great place for "just a hike". It's a long one, spectacular views. No actual rock climbing involved if hiking up from Death Canyon.
There's a 3d class climb via East Face but I haven't done it.
Remember, especially with a child that the Tetons are Big Mountains and in general more rugged and therefore more dangerous than the High Sierra. Much loose rock. Frequent afternoon thunderstorms.
Symmetry Spire is a big approach, particularly in late season (don't ask how I know). Symmetry Spire is mostly climbed early to mid summer while there's still a lot of snow in the couloir which is much easier than the endless steep scree.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 16, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
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Just for the sake of completion:
Here's a few warnings on the Jenny Lake Rangers website:
Consider that Lower Saddle is 11,600 ft.
It is not uncommon for parties to take 14 hours or more to make the round trip from the Lower Saddle to the summit. The Owen-Spalding and Exum Ridge are often incorrectly described as "hikes." Soloists are regularly injured or killed when attempting these routes.
Climbing parties of more than three are NOT recommended. The OS, Exum and Petzoldt ridges are extremely popular technical alpine rock routes. Groups larger than 2 are not appropriate and can cause unnecessary and dangerous delays for all parties on the route.
Climbers should not attempt a one-day ascent of the Grand Teton without prior 1-day peak ascents in the range and prior climbs on the Grand.
There are no straightforward routes in the Tetons- everything requires good route finding skills! http://tetonclimbinggrand.blogspot.com
This is the place for current conditions.
These are not the Sierra Nevada.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2016 - 11:57am PT
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So we decided on the mighty Northwest Ridge of Ice Point. Reasonable approach (for the Tetons!), relatively low elevation given the unsettled weather at the end of last week and an airy exposed 4th class ridge. Fun!
Ice Point from the lake- it's the small pinnacle in the middle:
On the route:
Summit:
As an added bonus the route is approached and depproached with the Jenny Lake boat shuttle. En route to ice cream at the Jenny lake store:
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Aug 22, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
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That is one big smile! Glad to hear you guys had a great time.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Aug 22, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
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Fantastic! Love the Nikes and Skater helmet! The best of times.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Aug 22, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
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Awsome! that still a burly hike! we did the ridge on Symetry spire this summer and barely made it back to the boat on time:)
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 22, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
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Back in the late 1950s Rit Walling and I hiked up and did the modest one-pitch north face of Ice Point. We used a piton he had made from an angle leg of a bed frame, a precursor to Chouinard's chromally.
Just a bit of trivia.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Aug 22, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
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I saw that Cabellas now sells oxygen in little cans complete with mask for $9.95.
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slidingmike
climber
CA
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Aug 23, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
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Awesome! J is getting so big!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 23, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
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Good choice! From the smiles, it looks as if it worked out well.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 25, 2016 - 11:39am PT
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Ice Point:
Excellent choice.
I headed up there solo two years ago and got driven off by a violent (is there any other kind in the Tetons?) thunderstorm. I blame it entirely on my too late start.
Good to see you two fellas made it.
TFPU, I'd been wondering what you route you had gone for.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Aug 25, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
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Memories that will last a lifetime.
Fantastic
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