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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jul 29, 2016 - 08:08am PT
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stop playing tennis and golf? ^^^^^^^^ that yoga stretch at least it's something new. Have you tried it?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 29, 2016 - 08:55am PT
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I had good success with glucosamine one time and one time only for a sore elbow. It worked quickly.
Trying it again sometime later seemed to produce no effect.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2016 - 08:59am PT
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Whoops, I meant that the link is a possible cure for golfers elbow, I have "tennis" elbow...but that stretch worked for Tom Randsl, who is one of the top all-around climbers.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Jul 29, 2016 - 09:00am PT
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I ended up with two (painful) shots of cortisone. But it did the trick. No problems for over 5 years now. When it was "bad" I would have gladly cut it off with a machete.
Susan
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jul 29, 2016 - 09:00am PT
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Have you tried that K tape. I haven't, but curious if anyone here has.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2016 - 09:05am PT
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Supposedly Donini's wife had success with K-tape, but of course most people think it's BS/pseudoscience. I wrapped my forearm with skotch tape for now which is helping.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Jul 29, 2016 - 09:17am PT
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I second the suggestion of cortisone for immediate relief (just had an injection in my hip a couple of days ago).
For a longer term solution, you might try prolotherapy which brokedownclimber has had good luck with. It works by repairing overstretched ligaments and tendons. See http://www.tomravinmd.com/
Another interesting and non invasive method involves using your own stem cells. Pricey but might be covered by your insurance. http://www.regenexx.com/the-regenexx-procedures/
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jul 29, 2016 - 09:20am PT
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interesting stuff NTR
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adrian korosec
climber
Tucson
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Jul 29, 2016 - 09:37am PT
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there is only one real cure:
stop doing whatever it was that caused it in the first place....for about 4 months if possible. if that's not possible, try those other voodoo magic "cures"
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Jul 29, 2016 - 09:38am PT
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I had it in both elbows 6 years ago. I tried everything to no avail, then I got tipped off to this:
http://drjuliansaunders.com/dodgy-elbows/
It took some time and dedication (e.g. Consistency) but it got rid of it for me. I had a few flareups and restarting the program as maintenance immediately headed it off.
I have been free of it for 6 years now.
I know some who tried it and it didn't work, but more who tried it experienced success.
For the pronator exercise, I use a cast iron skillet.
Good luck-
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Jul 29, 2016 - 09:39am PT
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Also- it works for both golfers and tennis elbow- just reverse the exercises.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Jul 29, 2016 - 10:50am PT
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Reverse curls have always worked for me. Effective, easy and hella cheap!
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jul 29, 2016 - 11:01am PT
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*
Supposedly Donini's wife had success with K-tape, but of course most people think it's BS/pseudoscience.
I use K.T. tape for my ankle, it stabilizes my ankle without cutting off circulation..
For my needs, it enables me to hike and participate in sports.. it's the bomb..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ySkXxXCYbg
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Jul 29, 2016 - 11:13am PT
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Reverse curls have always worked for me. Effective, easy and hella cheap!
That, pushups or just about anything that works the antagonistic muscles may help. After having a pretty bad flare-up of tennis elbow last fall, I used this and personally think it's great. It took a few months, but I no longer have any pain in that elbow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsKGbqA9aNo
Curt
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2016 - 11:22am PT
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Mark, I did those last night and now my elbow hurts more than ever, is that good or bad? I think it may be tendinitis instead of tendonosis.
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Jul 29, 2016 - 11:33am PT
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Mark, I did those last night and now my elbow hurts more than ever, is that good or bad? I think it may be tendinitis instead of tendonosis.
Mine was definitely tendonosis- by the time I discovered Saunders program I had been suffering with it for over 6 months and the last three of which I had basically stopped climbing (which did not help).
I do recall that the idea is to find the elbow angle that makes the exercise hurt the *most*; obvious that sounds odd, but I did that and it worked eventually. I was even able to resume climbing while still affected by it (but I avoided bouldering, especially gym bouldering). I do recall being sore from it- I used a lot of ice massage in conjunction with the program.
My understanding also is that if it's tendonosis, then ibuprofen or other anti-inflammatory drugs are contraindicated because inflammation is not the issue.
I did three sets of 15 reps, twice daily, for both exercises. Make sure you don't flex the muscle while returning the dumbbell or the skillet back to the starting position, it's important to only load the pronator and flexor eccentrically.
How long have you had it?
When it appeared in my other elbow, I started the exercises immediately and it went away fairly fast. The chronic elbow however took 4-5 months.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Jul 29, 2016 - 11:41am PT
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I'm a believer in Armaid, too. Great treatment device. Good for general de-pumping, too.
BAd
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2016 - 12:01pm PT
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Mark: I've had it for a month now, started after a heavy boulderering sesh, and I had not been climbing for a few weeks before that. So I haven't been climbing for a month now! I have only been mtn biking which I can do without pain, but my elbow typically feels worse afterwards. Last night I decided that my elbow wasn't hurting too much so I grabbed my bmx bike and after a few bunny hops I felt like a knife was shoved into my lateral epicondyle, I stupidly looked up sanders article and started torturing myself with s cast iron pan. Now I can't take a pen cap off without extreme pain.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Jul 29, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
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^^^^. I know the feeling. When mine was at its worst I had to avoid sharp objects or I would have cut my arm off. Good luck! I still advocate cortisone, even though I nearly passed out from the pain of injection.
Susan
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Jul 29, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
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I had lateral epicondylitis years ago. Tried climbing through the pain. I progressively got worse. I heard of transverse taping. Tried it and found I could climb without further damage and actually start to heal.
I think this is basically the same as kinetic taping? It was all about restricting muscle movement by about 5%. If you did not tape correctly you could do more harm than good.
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Jul 29, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
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Sorry to hear that. If it's actually inflamed I would probably hit the IBU and ice for a bit and let it calm down before doing snything else. It sounds as though the biking is not making it happy also.
Mine was medial ep (golfers); I do recall riding my bike made it hurt as well. Mine got so bad that basic household chores got to be a major pain- like grabbing a load of laundry out of the dryer.
What actually set mine off wasn't climbing, I was working construction and spent every day for three weeks up on a ladder with a 20 pound belt sander over my head l, sanding old paint off columns on a house we were remodeling.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Jul 29, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
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I have always had good luck curing medial problems with the rotated weight exercises but I could never cure the outside elbow problems. I can get it to quiet down for a while but the tendinosis always comes back.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 29, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
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Tennis Lessons are the cure 8-)
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 29, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
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That, pushups or just about anything that works the antagonistic muscles may help. After having a pretty bad flare-up of tennis elbow last fall, I used this and personally think it's great. It took a few months, but I no longer have any pain in that elbow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsKGbqA9aNo
I used the exercise in the above quote (by Curt)--anecdotal and all that, but it seemed effective.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jul 29, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
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Time heals all wounds, but you must allow the process to take place.
Tennis elbow is junior league compared to the pain of carpal tunnel, both of which I have suffered and recovered from without surgery and while continuing to do the work that caused the conditions.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 30, 2016 - 07:54am PT
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And nothing compares with tunnel vision which is your reward for not getting your cataracts fixed. OK- I'm on the schedule now and legally blind in my right eye (did not see that coming).
One experience with cortison. A very holiswtically inclined doc tried all kinds of thing, then said you sometimes one shot of this stuff works in cases like this.
It did. Never had the pain, nor cortisone again.
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snagglepuss
Mountain climber
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Jul 30, 2016 - 08:21am PT
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do push-ups ... or anything to work your tris.
All the other stuff is crap. You're in this situation because your bis are stronger than your tris.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 30, 2016 - 08:42am PT
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^Which surely requires that we ask, what about the quads? Mine are stronger that the bi's an tri's combined.
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snagglepuss
Mountain climber
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Jul 30, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
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Z - If your Quads are disproportionately stronger than your HAMs then you'll have problems. I'm talking about opposing muscle groups here. I really gave up giving people advice a long time ago because they don't take it - EVER. I don't know why I lapsed here. Carry on ...
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
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Mark: yesterday I ended up taking 4 Aleve, then doing the "floss" hang a few times, I also wrapped my elbow with an ace a few difference times, I woke up with a lot less pain this morning. Good thing because we went to Tahoe to ride...which went well.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 30, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
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For the pronator exercise, I use a cast iron skillet.
If the pronation works for you check this out.
I've had the elbow pain start up a little from time to time. Never serious though. For me the pronation works, now I'll use this set up once every so often just for general elbow health. I go both ways (so to speak), pronate and supinate.
Cool-equipment-you-can-make-yourself/
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 30, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
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It's all in fun, right? But seriously, shouldn't the HAMS more appropriatiely be called the pents?
Uno, dos, one two three quatro!
Z - If your Quads are disproportionately stronger than your HAMs then you'll have problems.
In real seriousness there certainly must be multiple origins of this type of pain and there are some things mentioned here that I've never heard of.
Snagglepuss, I certainly agree that muscle imbalance can be a big factor. It can even impact things like Achilles tendonitis, which I was able to get through by using the appropriate set of exercises.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jul 30, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
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Hope you recover from the cataracts zB . . . Best to you and all!
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jul 30, 2016 - 10:14pm PT
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*
Kalimon,
How did you cure your carpal tunnel ?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Jul 30, 2016 - 10:16pm PT
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some things must remain elusive.
like the snow leopard, amiright?
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jul 31, 2016 - 08:20am PT
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Hello nita,
I would not say that I cured anything . . . there is always a possibility of symptoms recurring if I overuse my hands and wrists. I give most of the credit to Dr. John Unger in Montrose. He performed deep tissue/chiropractic work that aided in my healing.
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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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Jul 31, 2016 - 08:33am PT
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ping pong?
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peterbeal
Boulder climber
Colorado
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I have just been dealing with a case of tennis elbow in my left elbow, probably brought on by too much gym bouldering, phone use and who knows what else. It appears to be backing off so here are my suggestions:
IMO deep painful massage in the muscles of your upper and lower arms is critical to clearing out the everpresent and overbearing tension that is screwing up your tendons. Climbing is not necessarily the problem and in fact I kept climbing at a low level in the gym through the entire process. Blood flow is critical to get the process of healing going.
Second, exercise with weights is not likely to help until you get rid of the underlying cause, which is probably persistent muscle tension. So skip the reverse curls until you've had some work done. I did a ton of those and didn't move the needle one bit. The flexbar is the same deal. Break up that muscle tissue first. Get the Stick and go to work, five minutes a day, going over your elbows and forearms especially.
Stretching could help, especially the biceps, triceps, and brachioradialis. They are typically tighter than a drum in most climbers and need to be broken up and then relaxed and stretched out.
Ice is not useful but hot/cold treatment is helpful in getting fluid moving. Drugs will not fix the underlying problems. Don't use them.
Accept that you need to get weak for a little while for things to heal up. I'm weaker than I have been for a long time but just did a proper hangboard workout for the first time in 2 months. I'll take that over the persistent nagging aggravating pain of tennis elbow.
PM me if you want to discuss further
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Kalimon,
Thank you for your reply...always good to know alternatives to surgery.
Cheers
Nita..
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Supination/pronation, if that doesn't help look further up the chain...shoulder impingement or cervical area.
Peace
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 23, 2016 - 09:44am PT
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Upthread Blahblah mentions this product.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsKGbqA9aNo
After an internet search for possible cures, it does appear that a lot of physical therapists like the Thera-Band FLEXBAR.
Here's a link to a NY Times article on the "miracle-cures" occuring with its use.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/phys-ed-an-easy-fix-for-tennis-elbow/?_r=0
I bought one early Sept. & with fairly good diligence (15 or so reps twice to three times a day) my chronic tennis elbow has been steadily improving. I'm also doing self deep-tisssue massage & some other stretches.
The pain is still there, but it is vastly less. I may even be able to fly fish soon.
Here's a more detailed Youtube video on the subject.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Amazingly positive feedback on Amazon.com too.
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smith curry
climber
nashville,TN
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Oct 23, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
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Yup, thera band and also weight lifting---Rest never worked for me. Super light climbing for a while
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 23, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
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When it was "bad" I would have gladly cut it off with a machete.
Susan is spot-on.
There is no "miracle cure." Prevention and (if necessary) treatment varies by person. However, one thing seems to work in all cases....
Amputation
At the neck
That cures all ills
Guaranteed
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Matt's
climber
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Oct 23, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
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after a lot of problems with golfer's elbow, doing therapy with these bands helped a lot:
http://www.powerfingers.com
at least in my case, i am never "cured" of the problem-- I just have to be diligent about doing the exercises to keep the pain at bay.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Oct 23, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
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After a fierce elbow dislocation, a bit of climbing and 30 years manual labor, I have elbows.
Keeping my arms straighter at night seems to keep things from tightening up and feels like better circulation in my arms and hands.
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JohnnyG
climber
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Oct 24, 2016 - 06:37am PT
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For me, rest and then rebuild worked, and continues to work when I have a flare up. I had tendonitis/tendonosis for years, thought I was resting, but I wasn't really resting it. And I wasn't coming back slowly.
It takes 4 weeks:
Week one: Rest. Total total rest. Goal is to reduce inflammation and let curing begin. Don't do anything with your hand that you don't have to. Don't bike, ski, lift heavy grocery bags, etc.
Don't massage, don't stretch. Just let it be for one full week.
I ice frequently and I also eat a lot of ibuprofen during this first week to help reduce inflammation.
Week two: Very controlled range of motion type exercises. Goal is to get blood flow. Nothing stressful. Just get it warmed up. Open and close hand without putty. Move arms around. Do a pushup and a pullup or two per day toward the end of the week. (Assuming a single pushup or pullup is something very easy for you)
Week 3: Now building up a little more. Bouldering way below your limit in the gym, for short sessions. This is just a ramped up version of getting the blood flowing. But don't go on a long easy trad climb. Keep it super mellow. You goal is to never tweak your elbow at all.
Week 4: Now building even more. Try some harder or longer boulder problems with the occasional hard hold. By the end of this week I found I could start climbing near my limit, but I was still being easy on the elbow. Nothing too brutal. No mega pumps or super tweaky holds. Again, the goal is make sure you don't tweak your elbow as you rebuild
Week 5: back to crushing
For some 4 week off of real climbing is unbearable...but 4 weeks is way less than dealing with this for many months or years.
TWO OTHER TIPS:
1. Reduce the mental stress: Some people, even doctors, claim that your mental stresses can be expressed through things like back pain and tendinitis. I read Dr Sarno and I liked his book. He may be a quack, but it helped me let go of some of my stress.
2. Red meat: a J-Tree hippy told me he had severe problems with teninitis until he ate red meat. So I eat a nice steaks when I have tendinitis flare ups, because, well, why not.
hope this helps
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Oct 24, 2016 - 11:47am PT
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Peterbeal is right about agressive painful massage. The best treatment Ive found is to use your thumb to agressively express fluid from lymphnodes around the affected area. This recirculates white blood cells and macrophages that get clogged up in the lymph system due to inflammation. Specifically, use the thumb to squeaze the back side of your forearm between the ulna and radius. There will be a painful area where the blockage occurs. Take the pain. Even try to embrace it as a healing process to devour that pain as you push fluid back up your forearm towards the elbow. Once a day is necesary to keep the lymph node(s) circulation open. After a week of this therapy you should notice a difference. I also recommend style modification. Try to use open hand crimps whenever possible. This technique distributes the strain of pulling more evenly across the skeletal system. Avoid the "spider bite" crimp whenever possible. I call it that because the fingers dig in like fangs and you will develop pain like a spiderbite if you do it too much. Indulge in proper warmup and cool down routines always! And vitamin C and Ibuprofin at night after your sesh.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Oct 24, 2016 - 09:52pm PT
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^^^ This procedure worked for me 45 years ago when I first developed climber's elbow. Find the trigger point below the elbow and apply great pressure with the thumb. Then coast along for a few days. After doing this a couple of times the sharp pain changed to more of a tolerable ache, then gradually disappeared. I stayed away from climbing for several months.
Later, when I could feel it beginning to return I would press down on my flat hand from above, stretching things around the inside of the elbow.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2016 - 10:15pm PT
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After an entire summer of elbow pain on the outside, is that tennis??? Golfers??? I finally am starting to feel some relief. I had pretty much given up trying to fix it and decided to just try to live with the pain. I have a little kids bike, I mean BMX bike that I like to screw around with sometimes. The bike has pegs so I like to try and grind boxes at the local skatepark. After an hour of constantly bunny hopping up to grind my biceps were quite tired, and for the next 3 days I couldn't extend my arms fully with out some pain in my biceps. Thankfully the bicep pain went away like most muscle soreness, and it has taken 90% of the elbow pain! I went climbing yesterday and I expected to wake up this morning with the pain back, but it's almost entirely gone. . . gotta work those opposing muscles. . .
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Jul 29, 2017 - 11:06am PT
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So I'm in the midst of having tennis elbow; the outside of the elbow pain (inside is golfer's elbow). Two weeks of suffering and I finally bought a $12 forearm strap with a little air bubble that presses on the tendon to relieve pressure on the connection to the bone.
This is like the magic cure. I can still do stuff and not re-injure it like I did the other night pushing Romex cable through a buried conduit. It still hurts and I'm NOT pushing Romex or doing any additional stupid to irritate the injury, but I can put the pain on the back burner because it's not very acute anymore and let it heal.
Hopefully I'll be ready to surf the first real tropical swell we get on the east coast this season and put a few more pitches in at the Gunks.
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Brian More
climber
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
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Jul 29, 2017 - 07:25pm PT
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Cure for tennis elbow: push ups
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 30, 2017 - 12:35am PT
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I had good success with glucosamine one time and one time only for a sore elbow. It worked quickly.
Trying it again sometime later seemed to produce no effect.
Classic placebo response. Works the first and/or second time. Then, zilch.
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