Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 62 of total 62 in this topic |
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 15, 2016 - 05:05pm PT
|
45 to 50 then 55 then 60 and now the damn 70 meter rope has taken over.
Carry less. Shorter pitches. Better communications. Less crag toproping.
Its Bad Climber's idea. Blame him for another climbing related thread. :)
|
|
Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 05:10pm PT
|
The moon does not heed the barking of dogs.
|
|
Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 05:11pm PT
|
Argument for the 80m rope:
You can rap a lot of the routes on the Incredible Hulk with an 80m rope.
Linking up The Vampire at Tahquitz in 2 pitches.
Not bringing a 2nd rope on long sport pitches/extensions.
Training weight while hiking to the crag.
Nuf said...
Josh Higgins
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 05:13pm PT
|
Ha, ha...I find 70 meter ropes to be the odd ones out. I use 60 meter for all of my multi pitch trad...I don't find, in most cases, that the extra weight of 70 m is worth it.
I have an 80 meter rope that is excellent for Indian Creek and sport climbing where you climb to anchors and lower off.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 05:13pm PT
|
It's free country under the governance of a free-market system. If it sells well, people that are stupid and without common sense will buy it.
If not. There's hope...
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
|
The Tubes said it best.
"Hang myself when I get enough rope
Can't clean up, though I know I should"
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
|
I believe an 80 cubit rope was used.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 05:58pm PT
|
I'm fine with 70m ropes for long 1 pitch sport climbs to rap back down or do long topropes.
But multipitch, it's super-annoying to have double 60m ropes and deal with 10+ raps set up for a single 70m rope.
So 80m is fine for longer sport climbs or top-roping, but don't screw up rap spacing on multipitch stuff.
And then of course there's the issue of rope drag, ropes getting stuck, and partner communication... what about rope stretch and the second decking when falling after the first 10-20 feet?
|
|
overwatch
climber
Arizona
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
|
Support your rope makers and get at least two of each. You should be able to fix a minimum of 2500 feet at any given time
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
|
It takes at least 80m to properly snare and tie up a charging Nephili.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
|
Totally Agree.Munge.
edit; It is basically a backpacking trip to where I get to climb,go light,keep it simple.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 06:57pm PT
|
I remember Chouinard griping in the early 1970's when we started moving from 150-foot ropes to 50 meters. Le plus ca change, le plus c'est la meme chose. (sorry for the lack of diacritical marks, I'm in too much of a hurry to do my French correctly).
John
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
|
Be careful of running longer pitches together with skinny 70s and 80s. A good friend broke her ankle / foot falling as a second not far above the ledge she had belayed from after her partner had led out nearly the full length of the 70 they were climbing on. It turns out the rope stretch was such that she might as well have been free soloing when she fell.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
|
Well, yeah, sure, all you weenies mumble on and on and on about how many meters is just right for whatever it is...
But that's weenie talk. The real climbers here don't care about your stupid stretchy lead ropes.
60 meters is the right length for a static rope, and that's the end of the discussion.
|
|
Lurkingtard
climber
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
|
Ban climbing.
|
|
Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
|
as long as your rap anchor is set at 25m,or 30m, f*#k it, 80m rope is fine
|
|
dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
|
Deal with it.
|
|
jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
|
60m is all you need. I own a 70m & 100m & 300m
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2016 - 10:02pm PT
|
Pente.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2016 - 08:05am PT
|
Overwatch for the win
Geez Josh H. All reasonable and shiz.
100m cuz then you have two 50s! Perf!
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Jul 16, 2016 - 08:39am PT
|
I inherited a 100 meter Beal Joker 9.1 rope. I really want to put this thing to use as a mega pitch rope. That to me would be the best style for it to go on. It has been mentioned that it would make a great TR rope for long Indian Creek routes, but this rope needs a more dignified life than simply being a TR workhorse.
Can anyone recommend routes where this behemoth can be used? I'm in Boulder, but could be anywhere in the Western US, any grade up to 5.13 sport or 5.12 trad. I'm thinking super long linked pitches, without rope too much rope drag.
My other thought of course is to cut it into two 50's and give the other half to a very deserving party. It seems there are a lot of routes now with 60m ropes, but that there would be plenty for a 50 still.
Thanks for any suggestions. (yes I realize this might require a big rack and well spaced gear).
This is by Paul Hunnicutt
Feb 11, 2009
Full circle :)
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Jul 16, 2016 - 11:41am PT
|
There was a period of time I climbed with a skinny 100m that I used as a double on leads. 50m raps (probably close to 60m with stretch) with no knot to worry about was really nice.
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
|
Jul 16, 2016 - 09:09pm PT
|
There I was. 100 meters above my belayer on an 80 meter rope. I could see the anchors. Two nutless. hangerless 1/4 inch studs, Rusted, bent 45 degrees downward, water spraying over the bolts and 10 meters of rotten face moves. It was hopeless, jingus, impossible, Impassable.
"Jesus. I'm falling." I yelled, to Jesus, my belayer.
"What?" yelled Jesus as I cast off from the wall, committing myself to his protection.
I flew through space, at peace with the knowledge that Jesus, my belayer, would catch me.
And then I splattered on the talus,
...and died.
Off belay
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Jul 16, 2016 - 10:06pm PT
|
One bright day in the middle of the night,
Two dead boys got up...
|
|
Climbsrox
Trad climber
seattle, wa
|
|
|
Jul 16, 2016 - 10:13pm PT
|
On a rather serious note I believe a 100 m rope was contributory to the demise of my best friend. After a day of 60m long slab routes my friends retired to the camp site which consisted of a large overhanging boulder some 60 feet tall in a beautiful granite basin in the north cascades. Rather than tying in to the end and pulling the rope all the way through, said buddy tied in short on a simple top rope. Upon reaching belay he didn't like the path of rope, clipped in safe and reconfigured draws on two bolts. He put the rope to be lowered back in the new setup, but clipped the wrong side (not belayed) and lowered off without weighting the rig. Unbelayed he fell and sustained fatal head injuries. My friend had been climbing some 40 years without serious incident.
We miss his presence every day and wish this simple mistake would have never happened.
Use abundant caution when top roping/cragging with long lines....
MH
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
|
|
|
Jul 17, 2016 - 06:53am PT
|
That sucks, MH, but any rope longer than 120' would have had a bunch of extra hanging around to confuse your friend.
Reasons to own an 80m
1. rapping the Hulk
2. Super Limits! (Outer Limits to the P2 anchors, then TR Crack-A-Go-Go)
3. Lower off Lunatic Fringe
4. Indian Creek
5. annoying old farts
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Jul 17, 2016 - 07:21am PT
|
Before we ban them, we need to do some careful studies of how many climbers have been killed by ropes and if certain lengths are more dangerous.
Nobody needs a rope to climb that cliff.
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jul 17, 2016 - 08:24am PT
|
Carry less. Shorter pitches. Better communications. Less crag toproping
Pretty much sums it up, but I'll rant a bit anyway....
45m ~ 150ft (actual 147ft)
50m ~ 165ft (actual 164ft)
60m ~ 200ft (actual 196ft)
70m ~ 230ft (actual 229ft)
80m ~ 260ft (actual 262ft)
After a while it just seems silly. I think there is some wanting to be one of the cool kids or be able to say yours is longer. Seems like there's more fashion than function going on
I get long ropes for top-roping.
But, when trad leading, long ropes are most of the time harder to coil, harder to manage, more work to haul in, make you have to carry more gear (unless you're Donini, but even Donini goes with 60'except for Indian Creek - makes sense there), and make communication difficult (have even found myself thinking about adding a walkie-talkie to all that other extra gear!).
Seems like it makes things too complicated when I'm out here to climb to experience my life being less complicated.
Have thought about going back to a 45m rope. Seems like that would be great for unremarkable climbing I do in the mountains. Back to simple. Remember simple?
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Jul 17, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
|
Some climbs have pitches that are set up for specific for specific lengths. It is annoying to come up 15 feet short of a bolted anchor (although my partner and I would probably just simul-climb a few feet in this scenario most of the time). For easy pitches the longer ropes can be nice, but the main reason I would do a multi-pitch climb with a rope longer than 60m would be to be able to do longer, single rope raps. In an alpine environment bailing from a long way up with a single 45M? (And I've mostly given up on bailing in alpine situations with two ropes. Don't won't to carry them and have had too many problems with the knot catching, anyway).
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 07:49am PT
|
Have thought about going back to a 45m rope. Seems like that would be great for unremarkable climbing I do in the mountains. Back to simple. Remember simple?
I make sure I only do old routes, then my 50m rope is fine. Who needs that extra weight.
OTOH, RJ Secor complains that the 50 is too long.
|
|
Barbarian
climber
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 08:08am PT
|
I'm waiting for the 1000m so that I can toprope Freerider.
or jug it.
|
|
j-tree
Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 08:30am PT
|
Outlaw 80m ropes and only outlaws will climb with them.
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 09:43am PT
|
Today's concept of extra long ropes and full length runouts is quite recent and local, being at first an adaptation to ledgeless routes in Yosemite and the ability of pitons to anchor virtually anywhere, and spreading from there by way of fashion. It is here that the natural climber will find it advisable to make a small readjustment in thinking. It is far more important to be well anchored than to make long pitches. And, it is often more efficient time-wise to stop shortand throw a sling over a block than run th rope out only to lose 10 minutes constructing an anchor. The British have recognized this as part of climbing with natural protection. On English and Welsh crags pitches of 30 to 60 feet are common. Every well protected ledge is utilized as a belay stance. And, the ease and quickness of placement and removal of runners and chocks makes these short pitches even more practical. The clean climber may find, especially on crag climbs and alpine routes, including moving in coils, that a shorter rope of perhaps 120 feet would overall more useful, economical, and convenient.
~ from the 1972 Chouinard catalog
Posted for fun. Yeah, I know, it's dated and quaint. Still there are some useful ideas here. A big one for me is that I hate having communication problems from long pitches. Communication is nice. For crags and alpine - shorter rope less bulk lighter weight less gear simple simple more fun yeah. I'm thinkin' a single 10.1 (I'm a big guy, those skinny lines don't work for me) ro double 8.5s in 150'? I'm thinking that sounds good.
|
|
OlympicMtnBoy
climber
Seattle
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 10:09am PT
|
Good stuff here, the rope stretch issue is a serious one here. With a 70m 9.1 Joker I once had a buddy fall while seconding. It was a 65 meter pitch and he was about 15 feet off the belay ledge. With rope stretch he fell back to the ledge, hit it, and toppled off again backwards and upside down. Fortunately it was a "soft" impact and he was relatively uninjured, but pitching backwards off the ledge he had been belaying from shook him up pretty good for the rest of the day. We didn't gain much by having that longer pitch.
It's just more weight to carry unless you have a very specific climb in mind too. Sometimes I'll even take a 40m lead line and a pull cord, super light!
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
socal
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 10:29am PT
|
^
Why would a longer rope result in a further fall on second?
edit: or at all, leading or following?
|
|
nathanael
climber
CA
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 10:54am PT
|
Why would a longer rope result in a further fall on second?
Rope stretch. The Beal Joker mentioned above has a static elongation of 8% and dynamic elongation of 34%.
So if you run a full 70m pitch and your follower falls right off the belay, they'll fall 70m*8%=5.6m=17 feet. Likewise a lead fall with 70m in the system and you're going to be going for ride. Granted it's a slow and gentle deceleration but still. If you're 5' about your last piece, it's not just 10' fall, but 10'+slack+ at least 20' of rope stretch.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 10:59am PT
|
The discussions about the danger of longer leads for the second make me wonder how safe my first couple of years were when we climbed on Goldline. All I remember is a gentle stretch, but if you were jumaring, you would jumar in place for the first 20 feet or so of a 150 foot lead.
John
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
|
I've TR'd "Fat City" in the Gunks which is a neat 5.10+ that overhangs at least 20'.
Two 60m "statics" tied together did the trick.
Even with the "static" designation there was serious stretch with 120m out. The coolest part was the enormous pendulum swing outward when coming off the crux at midpoint. Very slow though since the anchor was still very far away.
Early on though off the deck it'd still be possible to break ankles.
|
|
limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
|
I don't like carrying giant ropes or making super long pitches just as a personal preference so it's annoying when routes or rap routes are set up for 70m ropes. Getting more and more common too! I think I'm on the verge of becoming an old grouchy guy...
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
|
Better than politics and rehashing the news story of the day.
|
|
drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
|
Socialclimber
irregardless
LOL!
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
|
No worry. Hey climb what, with, how, and whoever you want.
I just don't want to carry all that line. I think I'll just start putting in my own bolt stations in at 45m. We can have bolt stations at 45, 50, 60, 70, and 80m and then everybody can use the bolt station that works best for the length of rope they like to use!
No big deal, do what you want, and everyone is happy!
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
|
Now getting to the heart of the matter.....
Down or synthetic?
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
|
Between getting down or getting synthetic, you definitely want to get down!
|
|
overwatch
climber
Arizona
|
|
|
Jul 19, 2016 - 12:21am PT
|
nope all rope guns gotta turn in their 80's and 100's. All high caps are illegal as of the new year.
luckily very few here will be affected
edit
Putting up new routes with
60 or 70 meter ropes is selfish and thoughtless
vvvv drama much? 60m for sure is pretty well established
|
|
pinckbrown
Trad climber
Woodfords, CA
|
|
|
Jul 19, 2016 - 05:51am PT
|
50 meters is plenty. Putting up new routes with
60 or 70 meter ropes is selfish and thoughtless.
|
|
overwatch
climber
Arizona
|
|
|
Jul 19, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
|
good one. I used to do the beer bottle with the teeth trick too then I broke my tooth one time
vvvvvv Ha! I switched to striking it open against the edge of a table with the back of my hand which turned out to be a better stunt anyway
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jul 19, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
|
It took me chipping my teeth twice to give up that habit!
I'm a slow learner.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Jul 19, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
|
Just tie two 40 meter gym ropes together.
|
|
ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
|
|
|
Jul 19, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
|
Just tie two 40 meter gym ropes together.
is top-roping with two ropes tied together advisable? I'd do it if I had to, but I wouldn't be too happy about it.
|
|
overwatch
climber
Arizona
|
|
|
Jul 19, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
|
pretty common although it comes with special considerations
|
|
yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
|
|
|
Jul 19, 2016 - 10:53pm PT
|
Lots of climbs out there where you need 70 meters to get down with one rope.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2016 - 11:26pm PT
|
In other news, mgear has some cords on sale, 60, 70 and 'others'
Saw a 30 or 35 meter 8.0 diameter today. So weird. Pretty sure I need glasses or something.
|
|
RW climber
Trad climber
New Bedford, MA
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 08:07am PT
|
I sell ropes, and only own 60M lengths. As of yet(7 years of climbing) I haven't needed a 70M or greater, NOT that there's anything wrong with them ; )
Climbed in Red Rocks for the 1st time this April...loved it. A couple of 1st pitches required a 70M to rap off of, I just opted to do the 2nd pitches of those routes, and do a 'backside' rap off of them. Yes it took a while, and I might have missed the opportunity to do another pitch or two, but most of my climbing(in the Northeast) doesn't require a longer rope(hasn't to date), so buying one(even at my discount) for the odd application, hasn't made sense yet...
My GF 'allows' me to carry the ropes and trad gear into the crag, so the additional weight burden is unappealing to me.
Like so many things in life...if the demand is there(we stock some 70 and 80M) the manufacturers will make them, and the climbers will buy.
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 01:43pm PT
|
WTF
I had enough trouble keeping 50 meters from tangling, can't image dealing with 80 meters.
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
|
Yeah, but... habit. Tradition!
rope all over my goddam lawn....
|
|
ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
|
ice climbing. 70 m is fo'sho the new standard. unless you want to spend the afternoon building two-screw anchors
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
|
Most here only remember ropes measured in feet and composed of organic fibers when all phones were rotary and your black and white TV got three channels if the antenna on the chimney was positioned correctly.
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
|
Thankfully, gone are the days of 10+ mm ropes for most applications...
For a guy like me that can go over 200 a bit, I'll take my 10.1mm marathon any day over that skinny stuff!
|
|
ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
|
hey donini, took some photos of IDS Tower today. that's a cool building.
|
|
pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2016 - 09:08am PT
|
you could top rope his routes with a 40
|
|
| Messages 1 - 62 of total 62 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!