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Dingus Milktoast
Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 4, 2016 - 12:27am PT
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I think its time I armed up for some of these remote trail heads and long rides across Nevada and such. I've had a few narrow scraps over the years where some firepower backup would have been nice insurance. I'm just saying...
Semi-auto pistol, on the slim and compact side of things, no big flashy man bulge for me. large enough caliber to put a man down for good. but I don't a 44 or anything.
Price of ammo is consideration, both range load and business bullets.
I'd like it to be quality and easily field stripped. Don't need James Bond - just a good solid weapon with a great value and cheap bullets. That'll stop a man.
Give me some good recommendations. Time I pulled the trigger on a purchase.
THanks in advance
DMT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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SIG Sauer P226, with the non-California high-capacity magazines (fifteen rounds, as I recall). More shots may be more useful than fewer, more powerful shots. P226 shoots the 9mm parabellum "Luger" round. Similar SIG models are chambered for .40 caliber, 10mm, .357 SIG, .45, whatever.
The P226 is what the SEALS and other Federal agents carry. It lost out to the Beretta 92F for the Army because of cost, not quality.
It is double-action/single-action (DA/SA), with a decocking lever instead of a safety lever. You charge the breech, and then decock and drop the hammer. A long DA pull on the trigger fires the first shot, and then it fires with shorter SA pulls after that.
Aluminum frame, steel slide. Easy to disassemble. Fairly light. The grip may be a bit fat for small hands.
This line of SIG pistols was the first 1911-derived pistol to use a raised block on the barrel to engage with the ejection port, locking the barrel to the slide. This is the standard way 1911-derived pistols operate these days.
Swiss designed, if not Swiss made.
Costs more than a cheap 9mm pistol.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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I bow to the clear expert advise ( now ? )in the above post (?)
Well I'm slight so the Rugers' make some slim handle guns. The best thing is to spend a few weeks shooting different makes, n guns. I really could only safely handle certain weight guns.
I'm trying to avoid cliché, that being said
Both of these & a left handed review or two were Eye opening,
Ruger SR45.
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr45/models.html
This is a good review;
HANDGUN REVIEWS SEMIAUTO
Ruger’s SR Grows Up: Ruger SR45 Review
by James Tarr | May 14th, 2013, Read more:
http://www.handgunsmag.com/reviews/rugers-sr-grows-up-ruger-sr45-review/#ixzz4DQOCZBMe
&
http://us.glock.com/products/model/g26gen4
The new GLOCK 42, in .380 AUTO,
is a slimline subcompact pistol
engineered with the GLOCK Perfection promise
able to withstand the rigors of routine training. Made in the USA,
~the G42 is the smallest pistol GLOCK has ever introduced, ~
making it ideal for pocket carry and
~ shooters with smaller hands.~
Years of requests across market groups for a super-concealable, reliable
single-stack .380 GLOCK pistol
prompted extensive research and development
to bring the GLOCK customer the G42.,. . . ?(glad I checked)... ? No link ?
Glock 42 | G42Glock 42 | G42
http://us.glock.com/products/model/g42
Wait till Fritz sees this...
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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A water pistol.
edit: seriously, go for a 40 or 45.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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hi fellow insomniacs
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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The Sigs are very nice but
just get a Ruger, cheap yet high quality with an undeserved low speed rep and made in Amurica, concurring with gnome
nice troll by the way
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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^^^^ hahaha, I thought you were gonna say carry a double barrel
& less funny when I see it in black & white;
I'm that gun owner ! Not proud of it , just so aware of it, so at least there is
That. I recognize it.
Fear of a tool is silly. I try to play with one every few months but it is still foreign .
The wife. Who needs one, is not bad around guns. But never goes to the range.
( she probably would need to look in 2 places to find hers, too )
I'm always on the verge of selling one or both, given the odds that if you don't have a gun
You are less likely to get shot. . . . .
I think that , now I know it's crazy but, I think the Glock web sight recognizes me.
Has me marked as a Treehugger! I had to try twice to add the links
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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I bow to the clear expert advise ( now ? )in the above post (?)
Ha. Got me. I am clueless about shotguns, but I know a little about other guns.
My friend was a gun nut, and had 10+ different pistols. His thing was 1911 "race guns" (four or five different ones) for action pistol shooting matches at a Hogue range near the community college. He also had a gas-operated Steyr pistol, a .357 Magnum revolver, a tiny .32 Baretta, and at one time, a Glock 17 (which he hated and got rid of). He had three or four SIG pistols, in various calibers, P220, P226, etc.
The P226 was the one that I liked, and I considered buying one. Hence, I know a little about that model.
The Ruger .22 pistol is legendary, and has been since it was introduced 67 years ago. But, it's not a very powerful pistol, at all.
I had a 5.56mm Ruger mini-14 rifle that was very nice, but not very accurate at long range. I thought the design work on the mini-14 was pretty good. It just wasn't designed to be a high-accuracy deer rifle. It was more like an AK-47 assault rifle, and I rather quickly tired of it, and sold it.
I would not doubt that Ruger makes a very good, full caliber pistol. I just have not personally come into contact with any.
Some gun guys will tell you that a revolver is better than an automatic, because it will be more reliable.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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crossbow and a shovel
you want to kill or just mame?
kill: 45 auto
mame: snub nose 38, a sure 6,
sawed of shotgun for brush work
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Adventurer
Mountain climber
Virginia
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+1 on the Sig Sauer P226. Reliable weapon, easy to maintain, and very accurate.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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With your noggin, a head butting motion should be all the deterrent needed.
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little Z
Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
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once you get your pistil, don't forget to pick up some stamens
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Some good info here. Read, think, then go to a good small arms training center, try a bunch, talk to people who use them for a living, do some basic training. Simply: dont be a fantasy owner. Know what these f*#king things do, and dont do.
Get it out of your system in the right environment with hired versions before paying for your own. Buy into the reality not the idea.
Your a thinking man dmt, and im stating the obvious, but things change when these things are around. Gotta update yr brain as you update your hardware.
I will step off my lecturn now.
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ELM !
climber
Near Boston
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I love my 226 but it is not "on the slim and compact side of things" . For that I would have you look at a S&W Sheild in 9mm. It is very slim and compact. I have found it to be just as accurate and reliable as the Sig. It is much lighter and way easier to carry. It does have less capacity than a full size but it's got more than enough to get the job done.
The ammo is relatively cheap. I reload so it's even cheaper. You can find 50 rounds of 115gr 9mm for in the $13-$15 range.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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perswig
climber
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Good to see you gettin' a little fishin' in over the long wkend, DMT!
Dale
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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ECDH speaks volumes, and saved me a ton of time pounding it out on this tiny phone keyboard.
I have used and own almost every pistol that fits the criteria you laid out. Sig and I don't do business anymore due to reliability issues and an arrogant factory rep. Other people feel different about them, but it is my life on the line so I choose reliable.
The latest dope on caliber is going back to 9mm for defensive rounds. A little reading on the interwebs can explain why and the feds have put a ton of time and money into this conclusion. Cheap also.
Two schools of handgun shooters, Glock and not Glock. I would suggest that if you go Glock , you get a lot of training from a Glock specific trainer. They are extremely reliable, but me having used so many different weapons have a hard time making one perform. I have the low and left shot placement typical of shooters not used to the grip size ,angle, and those ungodly triggers. Sold my race gun for this issue.
The last beta on personal defense is capacity. Survivability and capacity have a direct link, and again a little reading and searching can show you how this is fact. Being around California, this is an issue so do your research.
To become a responsible shooter it takes two things, quality training and lots of shooting. Lots.
It's hard to navigate the tons of info and advice you will find and it seems that there are more experts than novice shooters, caution is warranted on any and all information out there, and just because they are a trainer doesn't mean they are any good. Kinda like the experts at the crag.
Good luck, this is a big issue you have undertaken, I hope you find success early on.
Burly Bob
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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The ammo is relatively cheap. I reload so it's even cheaper. You can find 50 rounds of 115gr 9mm for in the $13-$15 range.
I forgot about that one.
My brother-in-law once told me to buy guns chambered for NATO rounds (i.e. 9mm for a pistol). The ammo is generally cheaper, and widely available. Surplus in bulk is (or was) available for very low prices.
If shooting lots and lots of practice rounds is a good idea, then receiving a 45+ pound box from Lubbock, Texas, might be a good idea, too.
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jonnyrig
climber
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You don't seem the type.
Enjoy the fireworks!
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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I foresee the "people who delete threads that they start" list growing by one.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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once you get your pistil, don't forget to pick up some stamens
Still laughing here!
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Gnome: . . . the odds that if you don't have a gun, you are less likely to get shot. . . . .
+1
(DMT, what the hell are you running into in Nevada?)
Give some thought of changing your activities.
Look after your karma.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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I'm thinking about a gun to take with me to a remote mountain cabin where I will be staying several months alone. I'm not a gun nut but have been around them all my life (my family had loaded guns in the car and the closet, lots of deer and elk meat). I was thinking shotgun as I don't want to spend a lot of time practicing and then recently cousins told me about a pistol that shoots shotgun shells called The Judge. Anybody here have experience with that one?
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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The sig P226 is great, but it's bulky and meant for a holster. Try the Sig P229 (smaller) or like ELM! Said, the better choice is a shield 9mm by S&W. The shield is fun to shoot, and can be easily carried ccw. Forget about Ruger and revolvers.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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It's the Fourth....it's the patriotic thing to do! If you're not packing you're nothing better than a Euro wimp. Interesting info. on pistol accuarcy.....pistol may be but very few people can hit the broad side of a barn with one.
I wonder how accurate members of the ST militia are with a pistol.....not very, I'd wager.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Sig Sauer P226.
Prod.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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I bet 'J Rigs' got a rack with the double barrel but what's clipped under the seat cover ???
There are every now and then's that .that never have to happen again if you carry.
There are also never agains that would have been just one more thing
instead of the Last thing because of a gun.
Ho, Please, .. .. .. Tell that to the wind as you lie dying . . .
Know when you need to & be carrying
THEN.....
The crutch becomes the extra limb
Creeps 'n ghouls rule the road
Is it scarier out there wit or without?
The paradox of carrying,
Having a "Bun in the oven"
1 chambered, ready to go,
. .draws heat
keep your 'bun' stowed
until you are forced To
By need hope ya know
Before
face to face
See what happens when we all start playin' nice with fire arms, some one takes a shot
Get the size right?much
Jul 4, 2016 - 07:28am PT
You could probably just point this mthrfckr at someone and they'd be scared off. Saves on the price of bullets, which Chris Rock says are going up to $5000/each. (No more innocent bystanders).
This next one with handy adapter is nice,
but hard t find since I think only two were made. .. .. ..
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zBrown
Ice climber
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You could probably just point this mthrfckr at someone and they'd be scared off. Saves on the price of bullets, which Chris Rock says are going up to $5000/each. (No more innocent bystanders).
This one with handy adapter is nice, but hard to find since I think only two were made.
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WBraun
climber
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Americans need an intelligent American pistol, and definitely not a stupid pussy pistol.
A pistol that according to time and circumstance goes into service intelligently.
Americans should be intelligent and DO intelligently.
Not like stupid politards ........
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msiddens
Trad climber
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Hey Dingus-
Sig 226 is a fine firearm no doubt. Check on the CZ 75- I actually had this with me last weekend with the crew. I can bring both the CZ and Sig for the next outing. You can try both, under adult supervision of course....
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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So, DMT, I know you're tolling but I grew up in Idaho and have been around guns my whole life. A gun is just a tool so ignore all the gun nuts. Get a simple, proven, inexpensive tool. The Russians took the German Walther PP design and came up with the Makarov. Go to a gun dealer and have him find you a good one. East German and Russian versions have good reputations. They generally come with holster and spare magazine. $250 to $500.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_pistol
500 rounds of ammo for $150.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist?k=makarov&sb=phl
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Surprised nobody has mentioned the Sig SP 2022, it's the 'bargain' model of the 226 in that it
has a plastic body. Of course, everything that matters is metal and it is a Sig so you know it
will always work, and well.
Jan, The Judge might not be a good choice for a n00b. A good simple revolver or a shotgun
would probably be better. I say a revolver because they are more intuitive and simpler
mechanically. I think the revolver would be better for a woman, too, because it is easier and
quicker to have at the ready in a bedroom should a break-in occur.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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J Rig,
My compliments on the New Partners write up
I'll figure out what to say over there.
I also got given a rare day with the troops though.
Here is a nod to trying to keep gun schist light till Fritz shows.
Stem &
pistolai
I was looking for my next flower shot, ? But. . .
.
Then I was thinking, as scary a thought as me with a gun, me & thinking & guns?
Short Jokes ? I need some ?
DMT If yer troubles be then go climb High E,
Then drop a rope over the top of the Direct Finish of Modern Times.
You will again be a hero of appropriate size.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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even though you know he is trolling you guys can't resist...maybe you are gun nuts
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Also, once you have the gun, you should read this. Killing people isn't like the movies.
I'm sure getting raped, beaten, and killed in real-life is a little different than the movies too.
Probably a bit more traumatic and deadly in real-life...
More gun-pr0n;
My choice. Made in New York (for now).
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Glock 36
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Reilly, thanks.
The Judge looks kind of big and heavy. I like the look of the smaller revolvers. I was also impressed with happiegirl's story of having a shotgun pointed at the front door when a drunken neighbor broke it down and took one look and ran off. I was asked to join Univ. of Colorado's riflery team years ago so I am familiar with recoil and not a complete noob.. I passed up the team though to go rock climbing instead.
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WBraun
climber
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When we were in 3rd world countries Bev Johnson always packed a pistol.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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HAPPY, ? 4 th , of, JULYis that perma- draws?
flag @1/2 mast?
There are pills now
Ho, that's already been said
Thnx for this place ez
rock tight, I prefer flight to fight, but giving up is not in my make up
I carry when I think I need to
( ther's that scary 2, I Do ~ think & carry!?)
stay in sight of the road as ya get old
Or I have to anyway.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan, the Judge fires a .410 shotgun shell. Not a standard .12 or .20 gauge shell.
I believe the other round is a .45 long.
Pretty cool defensive weapon. But a little much. Be fun at the range!
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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If you are serious I like the idea of trying several models and styles. I like revolvers for their simplicity and safety. A S&W in stainless steel so you won't worry too much about corrosion in a less than ideal environment. A .357 can also shoot .38 which gives you more ammo choices. About 4" of barrel so it is handy but still relatively accurate. Rubber grips that feel good in your hand. You might even find a used one for less than 5 bills. And practice a bunch so you feel confident enough to hit something. Or not.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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When we were in 3rd world countries Bev Johnson always packed a pistol.
Did she bring one with her and check it through Customs or did she acquire one at the location? Either way it can be rather difficult.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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DMT is speeding to Sports Authority for the 25% off all you can pack special....Don't forget the Pale Rider trench coat....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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+1 for the laser. Mine blinds 'em with 550 lumens while painting them, or just paints 'em.
That's one huge advantage semi-autos have over revolvers - the laser mounting rail.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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I'm painting here!
I hate painting
It is like
Watching paint dry
The best overlooked issue is how hard it is to give up your weapons.
They are an amazing item, n ar boat stasis: A hole you pore money in .
With boats they sink you & you have to sell & still drown financially.
With guns. ?. . .
once you start pulling the zipper.
You just have to pull it down to see a little bit more.
At the range I joined I get to shoot all sorts of guns,
it is fun, a social event,
As parents we all like to see who is at the range.
I get , the wife & I get nods of approval,
Not saying that we, any of us parents,
ever talk. . About anything, but
We live 25 miles from the Sandy Hook school,
It has otherwise, good folks freaked out
These flat landers Iz's sheepel, & scared of shadows.
#Gun culture rhaRah! GoUSA!
#GunculturerhaRah!GoUSA
who said it ? The Darkside, or some
Strange power exists, things seem to swirl toward the edges where a gun feels right.
Mighty Right,
I'm not saying that it is a right or wrong thing
The nature of the way-out is that it is not full of opportunities
You / We often become targets of unwanted attention
I cannot say it loud enough, think/carry in the way out- out back
I bet that given the "What's Wrong With Some people, thread, this is not a troll.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I'll play (can't resist a Milktoast troll, after all, he's been at it a long long time and is a considerable expert)
Brother Dingus!
did you actually mean "pistol" or more generally, a hand-gun?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol
as for running into people... it seems unlikely given your habit of finding remote places... and unless those places are on private property, you would seem equally unlikely of finding anyone there... on private property you are a trespasser and we all know what happens in the west to them...
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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I think its time I armed up for some of these remote trail heads and long rides across Nevada and such. I've had a few narrow scraps over the years where some firepower backup would have been nice insurance. I'm just saying.
DMT
I think Dingus is starting his own militia.
Probably going to hook up with Ron A.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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oh schist, ST, where's it at? That snap of the weedge snap rockin that coat?n glassezz?.
TDemon straight ing ingredients Genius at both ends of the spectrum at all times
Happy Father's Day to the Man -o - daddy-o wait it's the 4th of July.?!
Hmm? To those not showing up ? How about a Toker Villain Sighting??
& @ least this fits, the topic
Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jul 4, 2016 - 11:18am PT
I'd be a little hesitant about using the dove mix or #4 to discourage an incoming bear. If he's close enough for the mix to be effective, he's damn close - maybe too close for a second shot. And I'd hate to blind a bear which was making a bluffing charge.
To discourage a nuisance bear which is NOT charging the various plastic or rubber slugs work quite well - I've used them.
I know a couple of seasoned guys who carry 00 or 000 buck as the initial load followed by slugs, the idea being that a very quick shot on a serious charge may not be perfectly accurate and the buckshot spread gives a better chance of at least slowing him down for the slugs. The buck tends to spread about one inch per yard of distance. If he was right on top of you that tightly grouped mass of 8 or 9 30 cal. pellets would probably be almost as effective as a slug.
However, I'd still go with the bear spray for most circumstances. Light to carry, easy to use and hit with, and discourages the bear without injury.
yanked from the Bear Mauls wilderness educator in Alaska " or some such.
but Shotgunz? .00?, or.000?. Capsasin/Salt at 20 paces?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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That ain't no trench coat...It's a pussy bathrobe...
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Give up on the idea of a "pistol" and go with this legal anytime anywhere prison shank toothbrush.
If you are cornered somewhere out there in the desolate wilds and about to be killed just say
" you wouldn't mind lettin a man brush his teeth before you kill him , do you ?"
It's then that you instantly put the cheapest form of lethality to the test and recoup and justify whatever price they sell toothbrushes for these days.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I was up at Great Falls Basin, Trona, with Maya. Not the best neighborhood. The day was winding down. Sitting there we watched the dust cloud from an approaching vehicle slowly coming up the grade toward us. After a while up rolled a BLM ranger in his jeep.
He tried to strike up a conversation about the climbing there with me, but he was distracted, having difficulty keeping his eyes off Maya. Then he saw our tent tucked away in the bushes.
"You're camping up here?"
"Planning to. Bad Idea?"
"Do you have a gun?"
"Two Sir, both legal."
"Well, have a good night then.."
Good troll, you gave me an excuse to drum up an old story, and to refresh my memories of a drop dead beautiful woman.
FWIW I take a gun to the weird remote places. On the road it's locked in a case – ammo in a separate locked box. All safe and legal. None of that loaded under the seat crap. And don't get caught in Kalifornia after Jan. 1 with a detachable magazine bigger than 10 rounds. That'll be strike one (assuming you're not already a convicted felon :-)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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FWIW I take a gun to the weird remote places. On the road it's locked in a case – ammo in a separate locked box. All safe and legal.
Me too. KInda sucks having to keep the ammo/gun separated, but this is California. And this dude abides.
BTW, I was THIS CLOSE to getting the shotgun and .45 rocking at the shuteye trip, but I wasn't in the mood to go find an appropriate place. PITA!
Our camp host said he knew of a couple of safe spots, legal firing conditions/no real fire danger. But the vibe wasn't right.
Have him tell you about being shot at while they were climbing up there. That's totally f*#ked up!
EDIT: I mentioned something from this thread and now my wife wants to go to the range and blow the f*#k out of some paper. Woot!
The range I like is private, closed to the peeps today. Dude wants me to join, which I may do. They have a great skeet range!
Sunnyvale Rod/Gun Club on the way out to climbing.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Killing machines?
The guns I own are beautifully machined craft-tools. And they're surprisingly easy to master, safely. They are very simple tools.
They are easy to tear apart, clean, oil, and re-assemble. Simple.
Many overlook the simple beauty of a well-crafted semi-auto handgun. They have entire custom-shops to perfect them, and add special touches.
Prolly why I really like Kimber's. But the old Springfield 1911 or 1991A2 are still simple, beautiful feats of machining beauty.
I guess like most things, it's an acquired taste. But my wife never dreamed she'd be asking to go out an fire my .45! Should've seen her eyes when she fired it the first time.
"Can I keep going?" Yes, dear, empty the thing!
Priceless!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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If you forego the brass, this model is rather inexpensive and really, who needs to knock a guy out when you've already shot him?
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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prolly
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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That really get's you, huh, dikhead?
I use it as slang. Maybe I'll try to go back to proper english. Did't know it was that annoying...
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Like so many of the other dumbass phrases that climbers use but then I'm a dick head so...
prolly just me
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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It's gone now and I couldn't save it but what exactly is that Tough Mudder Banner ad advertising? Going hard together? With the look on that guy's face it had to be intentional. NTTIAWWT
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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I like prolly. Short, and still does the job of probably. Everyone knows what it means.
I think we should go with nitly instead of definitely (defiantly, definately, definatly, definantly, definetly, definently, etc.)
And of course I don't see the point in saying Saturday night when Saturnight works just fine.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Do you think Happiegirl can sew up a tricked out bag to hold my Mad Max chopped and channeled side-by-side 12 gauge?
Never know when the Mohawk and Mullet Tribe might attack.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I'm not a gun nut, so I'm sure there's lots of people here who know a lot more than me. But then they'll probably tell you to buy more than you need $ wise and caliber wise.
Some things I learned.
Only certain guns are available to non law enforcement in CA. So as mentioned visit your friendly neighborhood gun store to see what you can actually get. You know the building with the Trump campaign sign.
9mm is a good caliber. Enough stopping power without being too expensive to shoot for fun.
Check you local regs. I can shoot in my county as long as I'm 300 feet? something like that, away from neighbors houses. So I can shoot on my own property. Just like climbing if you don't do it for a year or more you'll get rusty.
Lots of good options. One I like is the Smith & Wesson M&P SHIELD. Law enforcement uses them a lot. You can put an extended magazine grip on it for four full fingers, or a shorty to make it smaller/lighter/more concealed.
If you want to spend more money Springfield, Walther, Heckler and Koch, Glock and make good options.
Some Rugers are lighter and cheaper.
The Bersa Thunder .380 is a copy of the old Walther PPK. Inexpensive but good. .380 isn't as powerful, but lighter and cheaper. As a plus you get to pretend you are Jame Bong.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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It depends on whether you want to kill animals and leave their bodies to rot in the sun, or if you are just looking for a straight up penile compensatory device.
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couchmaster
climber
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I wouldn't have to step up here if Piton Ron was doing his job. Where's he get off too anyway?
To Dingus: maybe you don't need to be carrying a gun? Sack up and practice some martial arts? Go get in some street fights to hone yer skillz. Jesus, pussy:-) . Besides, as a Californian I believe they will lock you up in jail if you buy one. So there is that. Just kidding, but I suggest a gun lock for sure if or when you get one. The bigger the size of the pistol the more accurate it is, the smaller the size, the easier to conceal and accuracy goes away.
Big: P226 in 9mm (they also come in .40) is an excellent choice. If you can get a West German model, you'll also have a piece of history. The usual config for this is DA/SA, which means that the first shot will have a stiff trigger pull, much like a revolver, and thereafter the lbs to pull the trigger will ease substantially.
Small: Ruger LP. There's better choices, but this is the most popular.
Jan: in my mind you don't want a pistol, you want a 12 ga pump shotgun. Either a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500/590 shotgun. If Remington, I'd suggest a "police" or Wingmaster" model as they are both more reliable than current 870s. A shotgun is actually cheaper to buy ($300-$400) than a P226 ($500-$1200) but shells/ammo cost more. Next, without firing it a shotgun is more effective. If you are in this remote cabin alone and someone is rattling your door knob late at night or otherwise being obnoxious, a quick but loud pump of a shotgun in the still of the night will be a strong message that you are not going to put up with any bullshit that they are bringing your way. No woman should ever be in fear from some dumbass and this is a great equalizer I'd suggest. Here's a lot more info: http://thewellarmedwoman.com/shotgun-basics
The Well Armed Woman suggests a youth size 20 ga for women, and that may be great advice but for my mind, 12 ga is close to the same kick, but easier to find ammo for. As I'm not you and we're all different, I'd check out what works for you and use both the 12 and 20ga first. The variety of ammo for both 12 and 20 ga is stunning, and as a "man stopper" it gets debated all day long what works best, but any kind of Buckshot will do the trick. 00 (as you know but saying here for others, it's pronounced double ought) is most prevalent. If you get a short configuration like something Arnold was carrying in Terminator, I'd suggest getting a Knoxx SpecOps Recoil-Reducing Stock so you don't get hurt.
This is the same shotgun below but with differing stocks:
The lower version is sh#t hard to work without pain unless you get the shoulder stock down quick or just get the Knoxx stock I noted above. That can be mitigated a tad with less powerful tactical or low power ammo. NOTE ONE THING, I was teasing Dingus above, but I believe (Not sure as I don't live there) I believe that the lower shotgun version, with the pistol grip, may be illegal in Ca, and if you have one, you will be a criminal. Not kidding, and despite what anti-gunners say, the laws for guns are many and complex, make sure you know them all wherever this cabin is.
No matter what anyone chooses, and walking around disarmed is what I usually do but I don't blame or criticize those who arm themselves, you will need new knowledge about the laws and also practice practice and more practice. The link I posted above "The Well Armed Woman", suggests taking a course. That is excellent advice, and they can also let you try several variations as well before you commit to buying.
Gratuitous climbing/shooting pics: this is a Vepr 12 semiauto, the Russian AK-47 shotgun essentially. This is a semi-auto that the link above notes (there are many brands and configurations of such) Magnificent shotguns and super fun, you can stuff a couple into a Fish brand haul bag along with all yer climbing sh#t. These are pics of my son at 2 different climbing areas. He's a much better shot that me:-( At the time we were heading out there, pretty much only me had been going to these spots. The upper one is still good to go but the lower one maybe getting too many people now. Last time I went there there was another party climbing, so the shooting part of the day needs to stay home or be elsewhere now.
Italian made Over-under.
That particular model of haul bag, an excellent product, can be bought here from a couple who really know their climbing stuff: http://www.fishproducts.com/
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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I believe to be a balanced mix of conservative/liberal, hillbillie/cosmopolitan (as long as the city isn't bigger then Flagstaff), gun nut / knot gun nut ........you get it .
So....road tripping with wife whom was the victim of the most brutal rape situation one could imagine (it's OK for me to write this because she was/is an advocate for victims publicly speaking up if possible), we were camped in Northern Mexico : that night the local fuk tards decided to play late night circle the wagons with us. Seriously, what is one in my position to do????? Well I did the only thing I could, and that was to sit there and be quiet in my van with my lady. Mind you I wouold have died in her self defense had it come down to it NO doubt. However it put me in a place to wonder how to A) Protect the one I love, or at least have some sort of semblance (false security?) of doing so. B) Protect my 'ego' and right to be somewhere without stupid punks in big trucks intimidating me. THEY rode up the road and I wondered if it was over, but they came back for more 'fun' later. I'm sure they are cowards, because they are the only kind of people who do things like this.
Anyways, that incident got me to thinking about my right to carry. I'm 'gentrified redneck' as anyone who knows me would attest, so I have no capability problems using proficiently pistols, rifles and shotguns. I have a friend who carries an assault shotgun with the first round basically birdshot (wounding) followed by 02 buckshot for a couple and then at the tail end of the chamber slug rounds. I thought about that gun and it's just too bulky, awkward etc. Mind you if I had pointed it at the above mentioned New Mexico fuk tards I'm sure it would have garnered attention. I investigated pistols and went to the local gun nut store where they had the perfect Ruger 45 semi 9 mill or something for around $350.
I dint buy the gun because I believe guns can escalate a situation just by their presence. My hippy friend suggested just buying a baseball bat. I saw one a couple days later ( which was obviously long retired from baseball satus and used for security @ goodwill) for $2 and decided that was good for now.
I think the question this post brings up is the reality of some situations where being armed might be a REAL good idea out in the hinterlands. I haven't figured it out completely just yet .........carry on and watch out when your in Northern New Mexico for reals
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Over the years I have come to realize that there are aspects of life that many people believe they are born with an innate ability and need no training or advice from anyone.
I call it the F's & D's; fighting, f u c k i n g , firearms, dog training and driving.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Didn't read thru the whole thread but Atchafalaya recommended the one my resident expert also recommends:
Smith & Wesson M&P (military and police) Shield compact 9 mil (compact rather than the full size which they also make).
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Italian made Over-under.
**PERAZZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!*
Sorry, the volume of an adjacent track was so loud, it bled over into this track.
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couchmaster
climber
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Pennsylvanian. Thats rough man. Real bad. Mexico has all but eliminated guns from their population. It's almost impossible to own one if you are a regular citizen not paying the .gov as#@&%es. A long permit process that is normally ended with you on a corrupt government watch list after they turn you down. So the only armed people are police and criminals. Unfortunately, the police prey on the population, often kidnapping and raping innocents. They are usually bigger criminals than the criminals. A fw years back millions protested against the police in Mexico City: claiming that they were the ones doing most of the kidnappings. Jesus, what a f*#ked up place. May we never have that here. Sorry for you both, may you both mentally recover and make a difference here. New Mexico?
Quote: "So....road tripping with wife whom was the victim of the most brutal rape situation one could imagine (it's OK for me to write this because she was/is an advocate for victims publicly speaking up if possible), we were camped in Northern Mexico : that night the local fuk tards decided to play late night circle the wagons with us. Seriously, what is one in my position to do????? Well I did the only thing I could, and that was to sit there and be quiet in my van with my lady. Mind you I wouold have died in her self defense had it come down to it NO doubt. However it put me in a place to wonder how to A) Protect the one I love, or at least have some sort of semblance (false security?) of doing so. B) Protect my 'ego' and right to be somewhere without stupid punks in big trucks intimidating me. THEY rode up the road and I wondered if it was over, but they came back for more 'fun' later. I'm sure they are cowards, because they are the only kind of people who do things like this. "
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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It is double-action/single-action (DA/SA), with a decocking lever instead of a safety lever. You charge the breech, and then decock and drop the hammer. A long DA pull on the trigger fires the first shot, and then it fires with shorter SA pulls after that.
I totally agree with that functional configuration. Mine is an HK P30 .40, and it shoots like a dream with superb accuracy and low recoil. It's easy to strip, and .40 ammo is reasonably priced. And the DA pull is smooth and releases crisply. The SA second shot is a dream. Very nice. HK is pricey, though.
I'm a big hammer-gun fan rather than striker-fired (to each his own). I like glancing at the gun and knowing exactly what state it's in. With a full mag and one in the pipe, I've got 14 rounds. Hammer down, just waiting for safety-off and DA pull.
Yes, external lever-safety (many will not like the "extra step"). This complies with Utah's (and other states') "two mechanical actions" law, if you're going to carry with one in the pipe. And I've trained to have muscle memory at getting that safety off during the draw, so it doesn't add much to the bullet-release time. But with the safety on and the hammer down (the decocker is the way to go!), the gun is essentially impossible to negligently fire; it's as safe as a loaded gun can be.
The debate about 9mm, .40, and .45 rages endlessly. I shot various and settled on the .40 as the best compromise between rounds available and foot-pounds of delivered energy (165 grain JHP). Everybody has their ax to grind on that score. And my wife easily handles the recoil (with even better accuracy than me; grrrrr).
I'm happy with my choice, and I agree very much with Tom's "take" on the best overall functional configuration.
A final point is "best practices." I highly recommend the laser strike training kit. You insert the laser into the barrel, and then you "fire" the gun like normal (you do have to recock between "shots"). After each hammer-fall, you'll get a two-second laser dot where your "shot" would have hit.
Because everything about where a bullet will hit occurs before the bullet leaves the barrel and there is any felt recoil, you develop good shooting habits and excellent muscle memory, both of which contribute greatly to accuracy. Then, when you shoot live rounds (which are costly), you'll see the reality of your laser training.
I've reached the point that I can draw and "shoot" an outlet-plate-sized "target" from 25+ feet away without aiming; just draw and fire, and the dot hits the outlet-plate on the wall. And I've seen this no-aim accuracy extend to live rounds.
It's quite expensive to get there by expending live rounds. So, the laser strike will maximize your training without the expense of tons of live rounds! There is, of course, no substitute for live rounds; the laser strike is not a "replacement" for ALL live firing. But it will be a huge addition to your training and greatly benefit your live-round time.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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I use to carry a 9mm but found that a skip-tooth 32 inch bar chain saw is the best way to disarm an attacker...
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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I wonder how much line he's going to let just spool right out?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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It's too late to cut bait, he's gotta fish now.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Once you pick out a weapon you gotta figger out how you are gonna carry that loaded pistol. Logical place would be in the top pouch of your backpack, right behind your head.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Be a man
That's what I thought, until I met that white bear. Phuk that.
Pepper spray? That's a condiment.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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we were camped in Northern Mexico
Understand that if you have a gun in your possession, you are now the "illegal alien" that is running a gun past international boundaries, and both you AND YOUR WIFE may spend 20 years at hard labor (and not together).
Crossing into foreign countries with firearms is a serious legal violation in all counties I'm aware of.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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I have had 2 girlfriends in my life that were both victims of sexual assault it is one of my major violent triggers, pet peeve is too mild of a phrase to describe it. I have said it before and I fully believe that rape should be a capital offense and I would relish being the executioner
That said and I understand if he doesn't want to elaborate but I'm not sure I understand his story completely. Pennsylenvy, are you saying she was assaulted that night in Mexico or was a victim of a prior sexual assault?
Again I fully understand if you don't want to tell the story online.
We actually met once Tim, at Oak Creek overlook. We exchanged contact information and were going to climb sometime but life happened for me and I took a sabbatical from climbing for quite a while I hope you're doing well.
Jim Doty
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Pepper spray? That's a condiment.
ROFL
Well said, and true dat.
I agree about rape, overwatch!
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Rapists are the lowest scum on Earth. It's still chokes me up the lifelong damage that those girls endured
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Adventurer
Mountain climber
Virginia
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Earlier in this thread, I responded to DMT's question by recommending the Sig Sauer P226. After reading several pages of posts by others, another thought I have is simply that in reality if I was concerned enough about the safety of a particular trail or area to consider carrying a weapon, I guess I would just find another trail or climbing area.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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It's great that you're getting a replacment penis, lord knows you've needed one for a while now. . .
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Logical place would be in the top pouch of your backpack, right behind your head.
That would be logical......to someone that doesn't know what the f*#k they're doing.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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DMT
Let me offer some alternatives.
1. Situational awareness will steer you away from trouble before it starts.
2. Manners, charm and wit can disarm many from an explosive situation.
3. Evasive driving skills can be a lifesaver.
4. Good running shoes and physical conditioning gives you options in the flight or fight mode.
I have several friends in Ak who have "The Judge" for home protection, but I don't believe it is legal in California (like a sawed off shotgun).
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Don't need James Bond
Bond's favorite was a .25 ACP. He was pissed when they made him switch to the Walther.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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You guys do know James Bond is fictional right?
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Coach37
Social climber
Philly
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Just stay away from the horse pistol.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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You guys do know James Bond is fictional right?
GASP!!
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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yeah, sorry
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Nice collection you have some magazines to turn in yeah?
muzzle down finger off
film shoot?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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If shooting the bear somehow doesn't help, you can always write about it for those who recover your body.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Probably fires a 22
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couchmaster
climber
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I want to pitch an alternative. Not saying that a gun is or isn't a good choice for whatever folks are doing. Just pitching this out. For my wife and daughter walking around town, I bought the jell pepper spray Kimber Pepper Blaster 2 and for my daughter, a holster for it. It has some huge advantages over a firearm.
1st) Much safer to use. If used in a crowd at the bus stop, you have minimal worry's over deploying it and say having a bullet go through a criminal and hit an innocent. A marginal situation, say a young woman is being stalked by a creep, it's easier to pull out and use to become safe.
2nd) As it's a jell, it won't blow back in your face in a strong wind. I watched a young sheriff get some regular mace blowback in the wind that took him to his knees and totally incapacitated him. Much to his Sergeants extreme amusement who was standing next to me. The old guy just stood there laughing and let the pup suffer for quite a bit and resort to begging before he finally got the clean up kit out of the trunk. You can imagine that happening to a young girl trying to spray a rapist with mist if he's up wind (downwind?). Bad bad bad.
3rd) It's under pressure and will reach out further than a spray.
4th) Superlight so that trail or backcountry carry is less worrisome than even a small but heavy pistol.
5th) There so many layers of laws for guns (Federal, State, County, City) that you may be legal in this county or city, and a criminal just crossing an imaginary line into the next municipality over. This is much more legal and less worrisome. If you happen to walk into an event, get searched and it gets repo'ed, much less financial loss.
Cons:
1st) You get 2 shots. Only.
2nd) Not very intimidating.
I forget, but there's a 3rd con. Oh, here it is, (edit) there is a small segment of society that is not effected by sprays. Cops know this and see it on occasion. They have other tools and backup police when they bump up on one of those folks, you won't.
http://www.amazon.com/Kimber-PepperBlaster-II-Gray/dp/B004MG63X6
I don't carry one, but it's nice to know that they are there if I want.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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The bigger the size of the pistol the more accurate it is, the smaller the size, the easier to conceal.
Also the bigger the size the easier it is to shoot and the less it hurts your hand (all else being equal). So for fun shooting / practice a bigger handgun can be better.
I looked into concealed carry a while ago and found you are more likely to die if you do it. They don't know why exactly but that's what the statistics say. Probably people who carry take more chances, go to places that are more dangerous, situations escalate, or they are just people more likely to get into sh#t to begin with. Of course that's different than just having one in your rig for backcountry protection, but it's something to keep in mind. Basically you should act like you don't have a gun, even if you have one.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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I have several friends in Ak who have "The Judge" for home protection, but I don't believe it is legal in California (like a sawed off shotgun).
If you manage to get yourself elected, it would be legal. I bet a lot of you Kommiefornians don't realize that back in 2011 the Cali legislature voted in a law that said they are exempt from all the gun laws they pass for the citizens of the state?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I looked into concealed carry a while ago and found you are more likely to die if you do it.
Yep, happened to a friend who carried, except it was cancer that killed him.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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'sup, Fatty! How ya been?
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Yep, happened to a friend who carried, except it was cancer that killed him.
Yeah, the heavy metals in the primer caps will do that.
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Lurkingtard
climber
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I think this one would fit you nicely.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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DMT is actually witty today!
Did you switch coffee brands or something?
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Looks like Dingus just got the win.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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back in 2011 the Cali legislature voted in a law that said they are exempt from all the gun laws they pass
Link?
"All the gun laws" or shall issue for CCW permits?
Fattrad and I had the exact same recommendation. Oh the horror! Hope you are doing well Jeff.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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What kind of safe will you buy with your pistol? And when you are traveling with your pistol where do you keep it in your car like when you go into a restaurant?
Owning one of those things brings a extra level of responsibility and effort to keep it out of the wrong hands. You go to a motel and where do you keep it? Cars are vulnerable to theft and so are motel rooms.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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wow, very confounding. whatever will he do?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Ever wonder if Cavemen used to stand around comparing their quivers of spears?
I can imagine hours of fun around the ole firepit debating the merits of Clovis points.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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in 2011 the Cali legislature voted in a law that said they are exempt from all the gun laws they pass for the citizens of the state?
RHIP - Rank Has Its Privelege
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Another reason to have a gun around camp.
I drove to the Needles from the bay area. Guy was going to meet me there coming from L.A. On the designated evening he failed to show up, so I went to sleep. He was there with his GTI when I woke up. He explained that on the way up the hill his cat converter melted down, plugging the exhaust system. He finished the drive at about three MPH, his car wheezing all the way. We decided to go climbing and look at the problem later.
At first Guy tried to disassemble the exhaust. The car would sound like a B-17, but it would run. He discovered quickly that the system was one piece. There were no joints, only welds. Next he set at the cat converter with a hammer (the backside of my hatchet) and a screwdriver. Surely he could punch a few holes in the thing to let the exhaust escape. As I watched this exercise in futility an idea popped into my head. I called Guy out from under the car and presented him with my plan. "F*ck no!!!"
I explained that the .380 round was most likely not powerful enough to go through the converter, but might penetrate one side, solving his problem. So we walked around the camp there and warned everyone that we were about to use a handgun fix the car. Everyone in camp came over to watch the proceedings.
I laid down on a tarp, my .380 Mauser HSC was loaded with six rounds. Taking careful aim I fired off the first round. A perfect 3/8" hole. Inspection revealed that it did not escape the other side. I laid back down and put five more holes right in a row. Pop! Pop! Pop! Pop! Pop! Guy started the car, all sorts of crap blew out through the holes and after a minute or so it began to run decently. Noisily, but well enough. That exhaust system was displayed on the wall of a repair shop in Mammoth for several years.
So you never know when that pistol might come in handy…
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Ricky D, Trad climber
Sierra Westside, Jul 5, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
Ever wonder if Cavemen used to stand around comparing their quivers of spears?
I can imagine hours of fun around the ole firepit debating the merits of Clovis points.
[ Click to View YouTube Video] |
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Guy was going to meet me there coming from L.A.
Now that's a good reason to have a gun around! :-)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Several years later I was hanging out in the Dome Rock parking area with Chelsea Griffie. Someone across the lot started yelling "That's the guy!" while pointing in our direction. That is about the last thing anyone wants to hear when you're outnumbered.
It turned out he was one of the folks who witnessed the shooting, but when he told his friends they didn't believe him. Now he had corroboration.
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Klimbien
Trad climber
St.George Orem Littleton Vegas
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I love the Sig P226, or the small single stack version P225, but wholly cow, the price!!!!! Its just not doable. For what you're looking for and for how often your OP sets up the use for it, I'd recommend the same as this comment.
The new GLOCK 42, in .380 AUTO,
is a slimline subcompact pistol
engineered with the GLOCK Perfection promise
able to withstand the rigors of routine training. Made in the USA,
In the single stack, it's very comfortable to carry, has enough rounds to get any job done, and you can always carry a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th magazine. Purchase a bunch of cheap range rounds, and then spend some good coin on a some high quality, hollow points, and you'll probably die of old age with that whole box being unused.
One other plug for the Ruger, i'd recommend looking at the SR22. Can be purchased with a barrel ready for a suppessor. That is what the Mosad uses for all of their undercover hits. Why use such a small caliber. Learn to be accurate and you've got an extremely light, barely any recoil, and with accuracy (as the only caveat) very deadly weapon. - Case in point, yesterday for the 4th a July, we had a BBQ, swam in the pool, then went and shot a the AR15, Shotgun, Subcompact Glock 26, and the Ruger SR22. My wife (who rarely shoots) was plinking pop cans at 100 - 150 yards with the Ruger, missing by 10 - 15 feet with Glock (granted, pistols are for close range) but you get the idea. My sister just came to me with the same inquiry and she decided to go with the Ruger and is currently in the process of applying for a suppressor for in home self defense. Her biggest concern was noise and being able to hear after firing a firearm in closed quarters (valid concern).
Best of luck.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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With training and practice hundred plus yard shot with a pistol is very possible
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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All these semi-autos are for people who practice fairly often. For the situation you describe (in your well place troll) get a revolver. .357 mag with about 6" of barrel. My wife has an S&W with a seven shot cylinder. Nice gun. Take it out and shoot it a few times so you know what it's gonna do.
When you pull the trigger you have 100% certainty that it is going to go off and not jam. And besides, you can't play Russian Roulette with a semi-auto...
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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I see a person as yourself, DMT, being a wheelgun guy.
I'd go with a S&W in 357mag but you could carry 38 ammo in it. Bump up to 357 ammo if you were in bear country or need to put down a wounded deer someone hit with their car.
Depending on how much weight you wanted to tolerate, versus capacity versus being able to hit something at any distance except arm's length...you might want a 3" barrel as a minimum. Considering custom shop, special lightweight materials and your budget, there's a bunch of options.
On the super light end of the scale, you could go with a 360SC 5-shot (ouch! with full 357 loads but it weighs as much as a couple locking carabiners...), an airlite 7-shot on up to an 8-shot 4 or 5", and on and on.
Or, if an auto tickles your fancy, a Glock 19 if you need firepower and a Glock 43 if you want a lightweight, single stack option. Reliable. Common. Cheap or spendy 9mm ammo.
For bear country, in the lower 48, make mine a 357 mag, Smith and Wesson Mountain Lite. 7 rounds. 3 inch barrel. Light. Easy to carry. Easy to shoot and hit at a "reasonable distance". Speedloaders and I can reload fairly quickly (honestly, just an easy way to carry 14 more rounds of ammo).
I like the variety of ammo a 357 can use. 38 target all the way up to 357 heavy solids.
Grim conversation overheard this weekend in Salmon Idaho at an ammo store...where the usual debate over a .45 and 9mm was going on. Deputy sheriff liked his 9mm with 115gr hollow points and some frightening data to go with. Yikes.
Anyhoo...FWIW IMHO...ha ha.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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What kind of safe will you buy with your pistol? And when you are traveling with your pistol where do you keep it in your car like when you go into a restaurant?
Owning one of those things brings a extra level of responsibility and effort to keep it out of the wrong hands. You go to a motel and where do you keep it? Cars are vulnerable to theft and so are motel rooms.
Holy crap! I never knew. What on earth would we ever do without your intellect and wisdom? You sound like the dumb weatherman on TV when he says, "It will be 10 below tomorrow so bundle up." No kidding?! I was planning on going out in shorts and sandals if he hadn't told me to bundle up.
Dingus seems smart enough to know to keep it locked up, but IT DOESN'T HURT to have many reminders. I just saw ANOTHER story where a guy left a loaded gun around, some friends visited and a young boy killed himself.
The statistics show having a gun increases your risk of death. Unfortunately many gun owners are yahoos and not careful. There's hundreds of accidents every year.
It's like saying don't text and drive. Yeah everyone knows it's a bad idea but humans need constant reminders.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Yeah everyone knows it's a bad idea
No, everyone thinks rules are for other people.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
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you have no right to carry guns
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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With training and practice hundred plus yard shot with a pistol is very possible
My brother-in-law hunts moose in Alaska with a pistol.
It's some sort of break-action, single-shot thing that shoots a rifle cartridge.
It's not really a concealed-carry type of thing.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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The statistics show having a gun increases your risk of death. Unfortunately many gun owners are yahoos and not careful.
So, does the fact that you chose not to have a gun mean that you self-identified with that group then?
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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I see a person as yourself, DMT, being a wheelgun guy.
Now that's a possibility for you, Milk That Is Toast.
With those wheels, you could even haul it up a route for total protection.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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That's not a wheelgun . . . . . . . . .
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THIS is a wheelgun
The Vulcan cannon shoots 100 rounds per second.
By comparison, the A string on a guitar vibrates at 110 Hertz (110 cycles per second).
The Vulcan cannon sounds like a very loud Bronx Cheer, only faster.
The Vulcan cannon is not suitable for concealed-carry.
The recoil force is approximately 3200 pounds.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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I've had a few narrow scraps over the years where some firepower backup would have been nice insurance
I'd like to hear more about this statement. But if you insist on a pistol I would recommend a Glock 44 40cal subcompact. Very light single stack.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:14am PT
The statistics show having a gun increases your risk of death. Unfortunately many gun owners are yahoos and not careful.
So, does the fact that you chose not to have a gun mean that you self-identified with that group then?
Huh? I do have guns and I am careful. You know you can own guns and not be a gun nut and be in favor of reasonable gun laws right?
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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My brother-in-law hunts moose in Alaska with a pistol.
It's some sort of break-action, single-shot thing that shoots a rifle cartridge.
It's not really a concealed-carry type of thing.
The instructor that I trained with for years to the tune of about 3000 hours, was a former Marine Recon, scout sniper, Army Ranger. I saw him zero in on a steel Target with his, I believe it was his 1911 but it may have been his 92F, that was 200 yards away and within three shots was hitting it every time
This guy
http://dag-usa.com/
Anyway do not want to drive timid off with another gun post so have fun with dinguses troll
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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It's some sort of break-action, single-shot thing that shoots a rifle cartridge.
Thompson Center makes those in a variety of rifle calibers. Better hold on tight.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Ahhh...they're not too bad...
(16" rifle barrel with a scope!)
Way less recoil in 30-30 than a S&W 360SC in 357mag!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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The old saying is a truism: The best gun is the one you have when you need it. I'd agree with Brian in SLC and for occasional self protection, get a .357 Magnum revolver. i.e.:
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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An old school cap an ball pistol could be fun. And there is the extra challenge of making sure it doesn't chain fire, or jam up on you. I kind of miss my old .44 and brass frame Navy .36.
edit; great for Civil War re-enactments!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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When I was in the outdoor industry a lot of sales reps from the Southeast bragged about the pistols they were packing on road trips. They were, to a man, windbags who would run from their own shadows.
People who pack and brag are very often less then admirable representatives of intelligent apes.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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I love the Sig P226, or the small single stack version P225, but wholly cow, the price!!!!!
I've got one of those. Beautiful mini version of the 1911A .45.
But it was pricey . . .
EDIT: Correction. It's a P238 with rosewood grips. Sweet.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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An old school cap an ball pistol could be fun.
They are spectacular when fired at night.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Get a f uckin supersoaker bro.
It's summer.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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When it comes to price don't be a fool. The cost of the ammo you put through the gun will dwarf any cost difference at the getgo.
Get the best gun FOR YOU.
That said, even the FBI is going back to 9mm. There are some wickedly effective 9mm cartridge designs now.
Those who vote Sig get my approval, but if you think a 226 is pricey check out a Legion!
Nonetheless I did a side by side, Legion vs 226 and it wasn't even close. Just as in the '90s the 220 was the best oob .45acp , so it now goes with the Legion as a service pistol.
For CCW the Sig 938 with nite sights is king.
That said, I'm so accurate with a 1911 .45 that a Kimber CCP will do nicely.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Some info for the weight conscious backcountry folks...
Good choice, BDC! Stout and action gets better the more its cycled. Heavy, but, nice for recoil.
As mentioned earlier...light. Maybe too light? Front tritium night sight is nice for pointing in the dark. This baby bites.
Not like they didn't have these lightweight pocket pistols back in the day...
Small and light enough for under a card table...ha ha.
For when you want that percussion look, but, still fancy a cartridge pistol...
A consideration might be that if you reside in Californy, you'd be limited in magazine capacity so maybe a wheel gun makes sense.
Where you leaning, DMT?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I fired my friend's titanium hammer-less .357 once. It was like catching a baseball bat in full swing. F*ck that.
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Klimbien
Trad climber
St.George Orem Littleton Vegas
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I've got one of those. Beautiful mini version of the 1911A .45.
But it was pricey . . .
EDIT: Correction. It's a P238 with rosewood grips. Sweet.
That sounds awesome. The Price is definitely worth it... don't get me wrong, but from what the OP was stating as its intended use, possibly for, what maybe, the first fire arm owned, price is typically a consideration. That comes from someone who is currently in process of procuring a SS MCX 556 with 300 black out conversion kit and looking to scrap together to find a SS p226 tacop with after market sights for suppression.
like this
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slobmonster
Trad climber
SF (via NH & CO)
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Hi Dingus.
Oh, what a rabbit hole we have descended into...
To answer your original question, I'd suggest:
Glock 26
S&W M&P Shield in 9mm
You can get a magazine extension for both, which will let you wrap your whole hand.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I did a side by side with the Kimber Solo and Sig 938.
No contest.
The Sig breaks down the recoil whereas the Kimber gives you the full blast.
Far better groups with the Sig.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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I fired my friend's titanium hammer-less .357 once. It was like catching a baseball bat in full swing. F*ck that.
Still have it. And I still wonder if I ever have to use it in a self defense situation which end I'd rather be on.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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What do we learn? anything?
Lot's of things. None of which will inform Dingleberry on his pistol purchase however.
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Dick Danger
Trad climber
Lakewood, Colorado
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Walther P99 AS, 9mm.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Jeff Constine seems like a good guy to know if the SHTF, just sayin'.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Another pistol episode at Great Falls Basin.
Guy Keesee and I were up on the ledge overlooking the parking area. Below, his Vanagon stood alone in the large sandy basin. Since the doors wouldn't lock, I'd stuffed my pistol into my pack along with the gear. The Good Doctor was late, but eventually he pulled up in his shiny new Toyota mini-van and parked. He joined us on the ledge in a few minutes.
After exchanging greetings he noticed my pistol case sitting on a rock. "What are you doing with a gun up here?"
"The van doesn't lock. And besides, if someone screws with the cars I can put a shot across their bow."
The Good Doctor surveyed the large dirt parking area. "From up here you wouldn't even be able to tell where the shot went." The gauntlet was down. "Doctor, Sir, from here I can drop one right through your windshield."
"Kristian, Sir, I've been going to the range. A pistol is useless at this distance. If you make this shot I'll give you the pink slip" I took the Berretta out of its case and made sure it was unloaded. I sighted in the shot. The downward angle was tricky but I was confident. Mr. Keesee, who until now had been otherwise occupied, suddenly took an interest in our conversation. "Kris, go for it. I've seen you make harder shots. You have this one."
"So Doctor, would you prefer passenger or driver's side?" I was playing games now. I had decided against taking the shot. There was no favorable outcome. I could miss the vehicle entirely, proving the Good Doctor right. I could miss the windshield but damage the vehicle elsewhere, perhaps penetrating the radiator. But most likely I would make the shot, probably the least desirable outcome. The Good Doctor had been known to go off the rails at times, and he was physically my superior in every way.
Later, back down at the cars, I took out a box of rejected lacquer masters used for making vinyl records. These are aluminum discs covered with a thin coat of black lacquer. With a border they are larger than the finished record, and they make excellent targets. When hit, the lacquer shatters around the hole and the shiny aluminum is easily visible at a distance. So I set one of these up on the hillside. I didn't pace off the distance, but all the way across the parking area, the shots were long enough to make my point. The disc looked tiny, but it was plainly visible against the sand.
The Good Doctor stood next to me smiling. I took my first shot. The plume of dirt popped up just at the left edge of the target. I relaxed, reset my grip, and shot again. Just off the right edge, I couldn't get any closer without hitting it. The third time was a charm. I unloaded the pistol. The Good Doctor, seeing that this group was well within the size of his windshield, slapped me hard on the back and thanked me for being a gentleman. Mr. Keesee sat there shaking his head. "You should have done it. It would have been epic." "Yeah, but why would I want a van with a broken windshield."
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jeff Constine seems like a good guy to know if the SHTF, just sayin'.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Great Falls basin and gun play seem to go together like biscuits and gravy.
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jonnyrig
climber
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How about this?
Just as effective as the big boys (shoot your partner in the foot and run away). PLUS... nobody's going to accuse you of "compensating".
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Kimber CCP compact in .45
(wish I'd wiped off the leather fuzz from the holster,..)
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Are there any reputable 1911As produced these days with 6" barrels?
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jonnyrig
climber
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wall-o-text deleted
"guns are evil"
"mine aren't"
"you're evil"
"look at my glock"
"you're an as#@&%e"
"you started it"
"if it prevented just one death"
"that's a logical fallacy"
"statistics"
"bullsh#t. my statistics"
"bullsh#t. and anecdotal"
"f*#k you"
"too many guns"
"look, i bought a new glock"
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Couldn't see his hand.
Didn't read a word after this sentence.
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jonnyrig
climber
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"guns are evil"
"mine aren't"
"you're evil"
"look at my glock"
"you're an as#@&%e"
"you started it"
"if it prevented just one death"
"that's a logical fallacy"
"statistics"
"bullsh#t. my statistics"
"bullsh#t. and anecdotal"
"f*#k you"
"too many guns"
"look, i bought a new glock"
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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That's because once you said that not much else mattered.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^^ And that isn't a huge part of the problem?
If you can't talk no problem will ever get fixed, will it?
Jonny is pissed but at least I think he wants to talk.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I will reprise my recommendation to read Sam Harris' excellent article "The Riddle of the Gun."
Here's the first few paragraphs. Do read the rest, if you've any semblance of an open mind.
Fantasists and zealots can be found on both sides of the debate over guns in America. On the one hand, many gun-rights advocates reject even the most sensible restrictions on the sale of weapons to the public. On the other, proponents of stricter gun laws often seem unable to understand why a good person would ever want ready access to a loaded firearm. Between these two extremes we must find grounds for a rational discussion about the problem of gun violence.
Unlike most Americans, I stand on both sides of this debate. I understand the apprehension that many people feel toward “gun culture,” and I share their outrage over the political influence of the National Rifle Association. How is it that we live in a society in which one of the most compelling interests is gun ownership? Where is the science lobby? The safe food lobby? Where is the get-the-Chinese-lead-paint-out-of-our-kids’-toys lobby? When viewed from any other civilized society on earth, the primacy of guns in American life seems to be a symptom of collective psychosis.
Most of my friends do not own guns and never will. When asked to consider the possibility of keeping firearms for protection, they worry that the mere presence of them in their homes would put themselves and their families in danger. Can’t a gun go off by accident? Wouldn’t it be more likely to be used against them in an altercation with a criminal? I am surrounded by otherwise intelligent people who imagine that the ability to dial 911 is all the protection against violence a sane person ever needs.
But, unlike my friends, I own several guns and train with them regularly. Every month or two, I spend a full day shooting with a highly qualified instructor. This is an expensive and time-consuming habit, but I view it as part of my responsibility as a gun owner. It is true that my work as a writer has added to my security concerns somewhat, but my involvement with guns goes back decades. I have always wanted to be able to protect myself and my family, and I have never had any illusions about how quickly the police can respond when called. I have expressed my views on self-defense elsewhere. Suffice it to say, if a person enters your home for the purpose of harming you, you cannot reasonably expect the police to arrive in time to stop him. This is not the fault of the police—it is a problem of physics.
Like most gun owners, I understand the ethical importance of guns and cannot honestly wish for a world without them. I suspect that sentiment will shock many readers. Wouldn’t any decent person wish for a world without guns? In my view, only someone who doesn’t understand violence could wish for such a world. A world without guns is one in which the most aggressive men can do more or less anything they want. It is a world in which a man with a knife can rape and murder a woman in the presence of a dozen witnesses, and none will find the courage to intervene. There have been cases of prison guards (who generally do not carry guns) helplessly standing by as one of their own was stabbed to death by a lone prisoner armed with an improvised blade. The hesitation of bystanders in these situations makes perfect sense—and “diffusion of responsibility” has little to do with it. The fantasies of many martial artists aside, to go unarmed against a person with a knife is to put oneself in very real peril, regardless of one’s training. The same can be said of attacks involving multiple assailants. A world without guns is a world in which no man, not even a member of Seal Team Six, can reasonably expect to prevail over more than one determined attacker at a time. A world without guns, therefore, is one in which the advantages of youth, size, strength, aggression, and sheer numbers are almost always decisive. Who could be nostalgic for such a world?
https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun
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Coach37
Social climber
Philly
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You guys that write these multi-thousand word diatribes on here? The full tilt "wall-o-text" posts?
Nobody actually reads those, so save yourself some time. Unless it doubles as your therapy, then by all means continue screaming into the void.
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Lurkingtard
climber
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Oh like I could ever pry it out of your mouth.
Lol. Gud one. Looks like cmac deleted your butt plug.
Cheers
~LT
Edit. Btw never go ass to mouth.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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then by all means continue screaming into the void.
Are you the void we're "screaming into"? You probably missed that I only suggested reading
Sam Harris IF you had any semblance of an open mind, or any mind I should have added.
I know yer probably way smarter and more literate than some chump with a BA in philosophy
from Stanford and a PhD in neuroscience from UCLA.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Interesting read. Can't say I agree with everything; but that's the nature of differing opinions. Could stand to be updated. Video links were also interesting. I, in my office, and standing in front of a classroom, am vulnerable to an active shooter, and don't have much in the way of exits or weapons to fight with. Do I carry in violation of state law and institutional policy? Do I keep the job and just accept the risk? Well, it's a low risk until it happens, now isn't it?
I don't feel much risk. The consequences are so high though. Like flying and the odds of going down on a plane. I hate flying. And I'm doing a lot of it this year.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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good on you Jonnyrig.... sometimes one must express, you know git out of your system...
A mental sh#t .... thats what an old boss usta tell me.
It works.
I think this whole deal is nothing more than the logical extension of the Clinton, Bush, Obama years of governing.... tons of folks are finally seeing the the game is RIGGED... against them.
and not to far from home... last weekend I got to witness 2 armed thugs from the Inyo Sheriffs department.... slam my drunk friend to the ground for doing what was asked of him.... "stand up sir" ... "YOU MOVED F*#KER!!" .....bam, on the deck... those guys are quick to slam.
your going to Jail.
and they were all white.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Reilly-Thanks for turning me on to Sam Harris. Most interesting. I am now a subscriber. The PhD in neuroscience at UCLA is a major league credential in my eyes :-)
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Toker back to how things should be, and JRigg , excellent not that it will help
Your hart and mind, won over, once, maybe a little?
now on reevaluation some things this society has just gotten wrong.
The Chinese are to blame let's start a ground war, in Iraq ...,
All in for love?
love of gods, money guns N countries where we can elect a Trump
200
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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"Guns Live's Matter!"
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Glad I live in Canada.
So you say now, Wayne. But just you wait... One of these days, you, or someone you love, will be cornered by a crazed beaver. It'll take more than waving a maple leaf at it for you to survive.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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One of these days, you, or someone you love, will be cornered by a crazed beaver
You say that in jest, however.... A cornered beaver is not a fun predicament. Had one live-snared a few years back- 80 pounder - and let me tell you he was a pissed off critter the size of a large Rottweiler with bigger teeth.
Having a gun is handy in those situations. Nothing will compare to a pissed off otter however, water wolverines they are.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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More interesting reading:
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/september/fbi-releases-study-on-active-shooter-incidents/pdfs/a-study-of-active-shooter-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013
Resolutions
The majority of the 160 incidents (90 [56.3%]) ended on the shooter’s initiative—
sometimes when the shooter committed suicide or stopped shooting, and other times when
the shooter fled the scene.
There were at least 25 incidents where the shooter fled the scene before police arrived. In 4
additional incidents, at least 5 shooters fled the scene and were still at large at the time the
study results were released.
In other incidents, it was a combination of actions by citizens and/or law enforcement that
ended the shootings. In at least 65 (40.6%) of the 160 incidents, citizen engagement or the
shooter committing suicide ended the shooting at the scene before law enforcement arrived.
Of those:
■■ In 37 incidents (23.1%), the shooter committed suicide at the scene before police
arrived.
■■ In 21 incidents (13.1%), the situation ended after unarmed citizens safely and successfully
restrained the shooter. In 2 of those incidents, 3 off-duty law enforcement
officers were present and assisted.
■■ Of note, 11 of the incidents involved unarmed principals, teachers, other school
staff and students who confronted shooters to end the threat (9 of those shooters
were students).
■■ In 5 incidents (3.1%), the shooting ended after armed individuals who were not law
enforcement personnel exchanged gunfire with the shooters. In these incidents, 3 shooters
were killed, 1 was wounded, and 1 committed suicide.
■■ The individuals involved in these shootings included a citizen with a valid firearms
permit and armed security guards at a church, an airline counter, a federally
managed museum, and a school board meeting.25
■■ In 2 incidents (1.3%), 2 armed, off-duty police officers engaged the shooters, resulting
in the death of the shooters. In 1 of those incidents, the off-duty officer assisted a
responding officer to end the threat.26
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Jeremy Ross: You'll have to throw a Molson at that beaver. Don't get the 12 pack. 18 pack has more ammo.
Ok, that was funny.
(I used to live in London, Ontario.)
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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I saw a Beaver that could blow smoke rings from a ciggie at a sideshow in TJ in 1976.
Never crossed my mind to throw a beer at it.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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I saw a Beaver that could blow smoke rings from a ciggie at a sideshow in TJ in 1976.
Could it shoot ping-pong balls across the room, too?
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jonnyrig
climber
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Jul 10, 2016 - 09:20pm PT
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/04/11/newser-beaver-kills-man/2074145/
A fisherman in Belarus was bitten to death by a beaver, and all he was doing was trying to take its picture, Sky News reports. The man spotted the beaver while fishing with friends at Lake Shestakov, but as he approached to take a photograph, the beaver bit him on the thigh. The animal managed to sever an artery, and his friends couldn't stop the blood flow.
Probably not the first injury sustained by man over a beaver shot.
The majority of the 160 incidents (90 [56.3%]) ended on the shooter’s initiative—
sometimes when the shooter committed suicide or stopped shooting, and other times when
the shooter fled the scene.
There were at least 25 incidents where the shooter fled the scene before police arrived. In 4
additional incidents, at least 5 shooters fled the scene and were still at large at the time the
study results were released.
The cops don't stop shootings as often as you'd like. What's the criteria that determines a mass shooting? 4 victims or more? Kind of a low bar.
The individuals involved in these shootings included a citizen with a valid firearms
permit and armed security guards at a church, an airline counter, a federally
managed museum, and a school board meeting.25
Not cops. *Gasp!* a CCW holder!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 10, 2016 - 09:23pm PT
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Ukrainians are notoriosly indiscrimnant when it comes to lap dances.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
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Jul 10, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 11, 2016 - 07:48am PT
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I guess cute only goes so far.
The world is chock full of evil.
Our cat is soooo cutie, right up until the moment that she smites some poor, hapless bug (she's not any good with larger prey).
I would imagine a charging otter to be quite formidable. .357 minimum! Maybe .44 or even .50. Take no chances.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jul 11, 2016 - 09:20am PT
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I had to release one from a foothold trap 2 years ago (I had already trapped my maximum 2 otter that year) and let me tell you what, he was open for business. If you've ever skinned one, you know they are made from ripcord and steel.
The preferred method for releasing an otter is far different than you would any other critter. You can't use a catch pole (dog catchers tool) because their necks are so strong and have so many blood vessels that a catch pole would damage and injure them. So its a much more sporty procedure.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 11, 2016 - 09:35am PT
|
much more sporty procedure
ROFL
I don't want to try to imagine. :-)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 09:50am PT
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I wouldn't think that even kevlar welding gloves would serve for that job.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 11, 2016 - 09:54am PT
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I think that what Esco isn't telling us about the "preferred method" is that it involves letting the enraged beast viciously chew on one appendage while you use any unoccupied appendage(s) to set the furball of fury free.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 11, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
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I think the gun you want for that job is a tranquilizer gun.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jul 11, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
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It turns out that Otter are a lot like most internet tough guys apparently.
They have an extremely sensitive snout, almost like the proverbial glass jaw. If you give them a tap on the snout it knocks them loopy and gives you enough time to release the trap and let them scurry away.
Or in my case, it allows you to run back to the boat and jump back in while squealing like a little girl.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 11, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
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run back... squealing like a little girl
I'm with you.
That is my "preferred method" for just about any situation you can think of.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Jul 11, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
|
Yeah, anything in that weasel family is gonna tear you to pieces if you get too close. They have such high metabolic rates we don't stand a chance. Just be glad they don't carry pistols.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Jul 11, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
|
Toker V, what would you recommend for home defense and concealed carry that also would be fun to use at the range
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Jul 11, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
|
May I suggest the 2106 African Princess model -
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Jul 11, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
|
May I suggest the 2106 African Princess model -
you may suggest, but I will decline for being too fat, too frumpy
Toker, you're my only hope here. I need to be packing heat.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 11, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
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Jim, Jim, this isn't the gun-control debate thread. You can find that one (at present) here:
This thread is about folks that want to talk about guns in a positive sense. You know, their legitimate uses, not the RARE cases in which they are misused, you know, as are cars, chain saws, knives, fire, hammers, alcohol (please use responsibly, lol), and so on. Not everybody is responsible with any implement.
But most are. We're talking about those folks here.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 11, 2016 - 06:33pm PT
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I have no issues with gun ownership and the myriad usefulness of lead projectiles.
My brother, no doubt what we need are more guns, not less. They are tools of many uses.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-double-shooting-boyle-heights-20160711-snap-story.html
One man was killed and another man was injured Monday afternoon in a shooting in Boyle Heights, police said.
The sound of gunshots was reported just before 4 p.m. in the 900 block of South Bernal Avenue, a residential street sandwiched between the 60 and 5 freeways, Los Angeles police Officer Rosario Herrera said.
Officers arrived and found the two men. One was pronounced dead at the scene. His name was not released pending notification of his family.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 11, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
|
The Armed Citizen:
http://www.mitchellrepublic.com/news/local/4071687-24-year-old-gregory-man-charged-accidental-shooting
Authorities say drugs and alcohol were found at the scene of an accidental shooting last week.
Byron John Lewis Watts, 24, faces six criminal charges following an incident in which he allegedly shot and injured Zachary Dostal with a .22 caliber pistol last week, leaving Dostal in stable condition but having suffered a punctured lung.
Court documents do not indicate if Watts was high on drugs when he allegedly shot Dostal, but Watts tested positive for opiates and marijuana following the incident.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 11, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
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The well regulated militia in action:
TUSCUMBIA, Ala. – Colbert County has reached the top of a ranking that no one would ever want to be on. Over a 15-year period, police saw more accidental shooting deaths than anyone in the country.
“It should probably be an eye opener,” said Tuscumbia Police Chief Tony Logan.
The numbers are not too staggering, but they’re still disturbing, Logan added. Between 1999 and 2014, the Centers for Disease Control shows 22 people in Colbert County died from accidental gun shots. That’s more per capita than any other county in the nation.
“It factored out suicide, it factored out homicide, and it strictly dealt with accidental,” stated Logan. “This tells me, we probably need to do a better job as far as training of civilians.”
http://whnt.com/2016/07/11/three-north-alabama-counties-rank-highest-in-accidental-shooting-deaths/
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 11, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
|
You find otters scary?
GREENVILLE — A 3-year-old is expected to survive after being accidentally shot Sunday morning.
Police say officers were called to 503-B Battle St. around 10 a.m. Sunday and found the child with a single gunshot wound. The 3-year-old was rushed to Vidant Medical Center “with injuries that appear to be non-life-threatening,” Deputy Chief Ted D. Sauls said.
In a Sunday afternoon release from the Greenville Police Department, Sauls said the child’s injuries appear to be “the result of an unintentional discharge of the firearm.”
The person who shot the gun had not been identified, Sauls said. Police said they would provide more information as it becomes available. http://wilsontimes.com/stories/Police-3-year-old-injured-in-accidental-shooting,69605
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 11, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
|
Hmmmm...
LAWRENCEBURG, Tenn. (WZTV) — Lawrence County deputies said an Amish boy was taken to Vanderbilt Medical Center after he was accidentally shot in the chest by another Amish boy.
Deputies responded to the shooting in the 250 block of Hudson Road on Sunday. They found an Amish boy had been shot in the chest with a .22 rifle.
ADVERTISING
inRead invented by Teads
During the investigation, another Amish boy was found to have accidentally discharged the rifle. No foul play is suspected.
The victim is receiving treatment at Vanderbilt Medical Center. http://fox17.com/news/local/two-amish-boys-involved-in-accidental-shooting-victim-taken-to-vanderbilt
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 11, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
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Ah, Gary has gone ballistic.
Okay, yeah, we're all duly cowed into submission by your WOTs. Your edge cases have proved compelling.
Anybody here wanna buy my HK P30? Cheap. I just can't carry anymore because I just can't cope with the risk of being or contributing to an edge case.
Edit: I guess that Gary wants to play the tit-for-tat game, where for every one of his edge cases, we are "supposed" to ante up with a case of a good use of a gun. Sigh. It's a stupid game. I won't play.
It's otherwise known as thread hijacking.
Typical "discourse" of the left. When you don't feel like you're prevailing in reasoned dialog, just make more noise than anybody else.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 11, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
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The Armed Citizen:
The Alma Police Department is investigating after a seven year old accidentally shot and killed his father.
Police say the boy got the high powered rifle from a locked case while the family was asleep.
He removed a lock from the case after finding the keys.
The boy then accidentally shot and killed his father.
Child protective services are assisting the family.
An autopsy has been scheduled.
http://www.9and10news.com/story/32406240/alma-police-department-investigate-accidental-shooting
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 11, 2016 - 07:00pm PT
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Your edge cases have proved compelling.
Edge cases? Yes, they are as rare as hen's teeth.
A 17-year-old boy died in Toney Wednesday afternoon after an accidental shooting.
Limestone County Sheriff's Office investigators say the teen shot himself while playing with a handgun inside his home. It happened in the 25000 block of Highway 251.
The boy, who has not been identified, died at the scene.
http://www.waaytv.com/appnews/year-old-killed-in-accidental-shooting/article_16248420-43d7-11e6-ba52-67aebceb6031.html
SEATTLE -- Seattle police say a 2-year-old likely shot himself by accident Monday morning as he was handling a loaded pistol at a local motel.
The boy has been in critical condition at Harborview Medical Center, but police say he is expected to survive.
Police say the boyfriend of the boy's mother may face criminal charges since he is a convicted felon and prohibited from having guns.
The boy arrived at Harborview at 9:36 a.m. Monday. His mother and her boyfriend brought him to the hospital.
The child's mother and her boyfriend told police that the child was injured in a motel room in the 8000 block of East Marginal Way South. The motel has been identified as the Munson Motel.
Police say officers searched the room, performed forensic tests and interviewed both the mother and boyfriend. Detectives concluded that the toddler was shot while handling a loaded pistol.
http://komonews.com/news/local/small-boy-critical-at-harborview-with-gunshot-wound
MANCHESTER — A Manchester man has been arrested after police say he accidentally shot his cousin in the leg.
Police say the victim, 31-year-old Emily Acelin, arrived at a local hospital around 10 p.m. Saturday with a gunshot wound to her thigh. Acelin told police she was at a house party on Cooper Street when the host accidentally shot her. http://fox61.com/2016/07/11/manchester-man-accused-of-accidentally-shooting-cousin-in-leg-both-arrested/
A 43-year-old Omaha, Nebraska, woman is in stable condition following a shooting accident near Yankton Sunday afternoon.
According to Sheriff Jim Vlahakis, a report was received at around 5:30 p.m. Sunday of a shooting victim at a residence on Skyline Dr. in the Lewis & Clark Lake area.
"The victim was visiting family over the weekend and was being taught how to shoot a firearm by her father," Vlahakis said in an email Tuesday. "While her father was handling the firearm and instructing her on the operation of the firearm, the gun discharged, striking his daughter in the pelvis." http://www.yankton.net/community/article_9f14b84a-4328-11e6-a9a1-bf93203e3fd9.html
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
|
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Jul 11, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
|
Edit: I guess that Gary wants to play the tit-for-tat game, where for every one of his edge cases, we are "supposed" to ante up with a case of a good use of a gun. Sigh. It's a stupid game. I won't play.
Don't blame you for that, Richard. It would be a waste of your time, you couldn't win anyway.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
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Jul 11, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
|
you couldn't win anyway
ROFL
Nope, not gonna be troll-baited, Gary.
Have fun with yourself.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 11, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
|
Those incidents above were from July 2016. The month is only 11 days old.
So, yeah, it would behoove you to turn a blind eye.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jul 11, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
|
They are vicious I'm telling you.
Cosmic, help me out here, this guy seems like he might be part of your family tree but he needs some work done.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jul 11, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
|
Somewhere in Nevada...
Not a fan of leg traps...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 11, 2016 - 09:03pm PT
|
Cosmic, help me out here, this guy seems like he might be part of your family tree but he needs some work done.
Go, Cosmic, go! We need some results here.
I'm waiting with bated breath (and in fascinated horror).
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 09:28pm PT
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God bless him, Cosmic.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 11, 2016 - 11:06pm PT
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I'm so sorry to hear that. There are no words.
So sorry.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jul 11, 2016 - 11:33pm PT
|
May he rest well. Sorry Cosmic.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jul 12, 2016 - 03:44am PT
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Bummer. Cosmic. A tunnel through which we all must pass. Be well.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jul 12, 2016 - 04:04am PT
|
Greatest condolences Cosmic.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jul 12, 2016 - 07:38am PT
|
^^^^^ oh brother!
sorry for your loss, Cosmic
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 12, 2016 - 08:06am PT
|
Cosmic, that's terrible. RIP
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 17, 2016 - 06:41am PT
|
Don't you mean "Bang"?
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Nov 17, 2016 - 06:44am PT
|
any reason not to get a Glock 19 as first piece? would be for home and range, no cowboy conceal nonsense
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 17, 2016 - 07:07am PT
|
Glock = Hyundai, NTTAWWT.
Sig = Mercedes, why else would the Navy's SEALs pick it?
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Nov 17, 2016 - 07:10am PT
|
Sig 240
higher sight than the Glock for fatter hands
It is a win either way, best to have a German piece in Bannon's Murica
otherwise, you are a jew commie pinko
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Nov 17, 2016 - 07:37am PT
|
looks like the P320 Compact is the closest comparable to the Gen 4 Glock 19. I'll check it out
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 17, 2016 - 07:53am PT
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Get a P226 or the polymer frame version SP2022 - hammer-fired DA/SA is much safer
than striker-fired.
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Al Barkamps
Social climber
Red Stick
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Nov 17, 2016 - 08:12am PT
|
DMT gave up on the gun thing and went with Viagra.
Now the only thing in danger is his own eye.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 17, 2016 - 08:54am PT
|
DMT gave up on the gun thing
Back in 69, I didn't have a care
Before they called my number, I chopped of all my hair
Said goodbye to mamma, dad and uncle Dan
Boarded an airplane and headed off for Nam
He called us to attention as we stepped off the plane
Checked us off a list as he called out our names
Then he picked up his rifle and raised it in the air
Grabbed his crotch with his other hand as we all stood and stared
He said...
This is my rifle
This is my gun
One is for killing
The others for fun
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 17, 2016 - 09:25am PT
|
...I've got a Glock, the wife keeps it locked....
I bet she sure does.....
:)
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Nov 17, 2016 - 10:47am PT
|
Glock = Hyundai, NTTAWWT.
Sig = Mercedes, why else would the Navy's SEALs pick it?
Didn't they just switch to the Glock?
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Nov 17, 2016 - 11:30am PT
|
Don't bother. You're outgunned anyway.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
|
I am not for or against, but I like statistics.
Once you own a gun, it is possible that you may some day use it successfully in self-defense. It is also possible that:
Two, you will attempt to use it for self-defense but be unsuccessful
Three, you will use it to kill someone
Four, You will use it to commit suicide
Five, an accidental discharge will kill or injure someone
Six, a child will get ahold of it and either kill or injure himself
Seven, a child will get ahold of it, and kill or injure someone else
Eight, it gets stolen and used for something other than self-defense
Statistically, successful uses of firearms in self-defense are greatly outnumbered by other possible outcomes. So. law enforcement experts say that many people are more safe without a gun than with one, especially in the big cities. Country folk definitely need guns.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Nov 18, 2016 - 01:28am PT
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Walther PPK. Slim and smooth edges. Doesnt snag on clothes when drawn. Simple and very concealable. Easy to reload.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Nov 18, 2016 - 07:38am PT
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Walther PPK.
Plus, looks good with a martini...
I'd probably opt for a Glock 43. Lighter, 9mm...
That said, my Walther is pretty nice. Slide rack is stiff. But, pointable, and more accurate than I'd think it should be. Well made.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 18, 2016 - 07:42am PT
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I prefer the Sig P232. Why do you need a beaver tail on a 380? Granted, it is fairly smooth
and less likely to cause a snag as a carry gun but the Sig is smoother, plus it's a Sig.
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Mike Honcho
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Nov 18, 2016 - 10:52am PT
|
This what I keep next to my bed, love it. The others I make a living with, Glock 17-19. But the Governor is my 'just in case' home protection piece.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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^^^
curious why your home piece would be a revolver when you can get a 9mm with 15 rounds or more
maybe you shoot exceptionally well
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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ms55, how many rounds of 410 would you need?
BwaHaHaHa!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Pussies sure do love pistols.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^ True dat! It's so much more satisfying to lie there waiting for Jerry Brown and Nancy Pelosi to come to yer rescue!
Big article in the LA Times today about all the first-time gun buyers, a high percentage of which are women and gays, who buy their first gun after big mass shootings. Vulnerable people just don't have faith in the gubmint to protect them.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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donini - come to Minnesota and climb some hard stuff with me
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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They're more likely to shoot themselves or their ex-girlfriend with the stupid things.
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Concealing and weight is an issue, but a sawed off shotgun doesn't require a spot on aim. Plus the sound of the pump action being engaged is universal in sending fear through any would be perp. Sounds like your gonna have some adventure & fun regardless though. Have a blast no pun intended!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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don't live in the ghetto.
Around here home invasions don't occur in the ghetto - they follow John Dillinger's maxim
of going where the money is.
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
PUAKO, BIG ISLAND Kohala Coast
|
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The Judge, 4/10 buck shot(dime disc) or .45 rounds. I stagger the ammunition just in case...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Ms55401....Minnestoa, pretty much over it. My first wife was from Wayzata. I froze my ass off working on the construction of the IDS Tower during the winter in the late 60's, was eaten alive by mosquitos in Crane Lake and consumed far too much alcohol in the Seven Corners.
Minnesota may be frigid in the winter and hot and buggy in the summer but at least it's flat.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Of the pistol owners here....who can, given one shot, hit a wine bottle from 20 meters?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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own several. carry none. there is a trunk in the back of the woodshed full of trophys...
answer = yes.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
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who can, given one shot, hit a wine bottle from 20 meters?
With which hand and can I open my eyes?
More to the point, who here can hit a 50 gal oil drum at a half a mile from
a rolling deck with a twin 3"-50?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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|
We did a 7 1/2 week 10k + mile road trip last summer with Isa. My redneck family asked what gun did you bring with you. Answer = none. Felt completly comfortable the whole time with two exceptions. Once gassing up in green river Wyoming some cammoed up survivalist/ trumper looking guy was eyeballing us at a gas station. The road out of there was straight and lonely... I caught a weird vibe from him. It carried on my mind that maybe he took a hankering to Isa. Decided not to sleep in the desolate rest area in the middle of no where. None of the side roads looked inviteing. too flat and easy to see us from the main road. kept going untill really late and tired and found a real campground.. managed to roll in and out in the morning without haveing to talk to the ranger;) That one night I would have been ok with 12ga pump in the van. One other night @ wall mart in Saskatchewan it was pretty noisy / urban and a local had warned us that there was tension and some violence between first nation people and whites. that was a little uneasy but not too bad. Its all in useing your head to try and control circumstances....
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jonnyrig
climber
|
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I'd rather drink the bottle of wine and make fun of the president.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
|
|
Of the pistol owners here....who can, given one shot, hit a wine bottle from 20 meters?
Depending on the pistol, I might be your huckleberry...
Last summer in a competition I shot a 97 at 25 yards (same B-16 target as the above). Took home the gold (yay!).
I'd think I'd have a fair chance at 20m on a wine bottle sized target but it would depend on the pistol. My comp gun is a .22 Walther GSP. But, I have a couple of .45's, .357's, 44's and a single shot or two that might do the trick. And a few that I'd be less than confident in.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
What kind of wine?
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Did DMT get a pistol yet? Or is his preferred compensatory device still his van?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
Of the pistol owners here....who can, given one shot, hit a wine bottle from 20 meters?
I'm up to that challenge, Jim.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I'll make that shot every time provided that the bottle is empty. Also, of course, providing that it was not I who emptied it before trying the shot.
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