New Yosemite Valley traffic regs

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Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 27, 2016 - 10:40am PT

So let me preface this by saying that I have not been to the Valley in several years. However, I had a great few days up in the Meadows climbing some fun stuff with my daughter and then drove into the Valley to spend Saturday and Sunday in the Valley. What an unpleasant mess. A gridlocked line of traffic from Bridalveil all the way to where the road to the Village and Curry split--all because some genius decided that all passenger vehicles must stay in the left so buses and emergency vehicles can drive in the right lane. I think I saw four mini-buses and one green dragon pass in that one hour we sat there. When and why did they implement this, and is there anyone's cage we can rattle to get them to rescind this? Sorry for the Monday morning gripe, but that made an LA commute seem pleasant in comparison.

BFK

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Jun 27, 2016 - 10:50am PT

Lorenzo

Trad climber

Portland Oregon

Jun 27, 2016 - 10:53am PT

I think a face to face would go something like this...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Byran

climber

Half Dome Village

Jun 27, 2016 - 11:43am PT

I think the reason for the one lane on S Side is that they want to throttle the rate at which cars can get into the east Valley. In general, there are more cars than parking spots around there and so traffic can become really congested as people drive around in circles looking for a place to park. Basically if they can keep the traffic backed up down valley, then it lessens the traffic in the east valley.

All the good nightclubs have a line to get in, and the best one has the longest line. Yosemite just wants to make sure everyone knows they're the best National Park.

We need self driving cars more than ever. Once you hit traffic, just program your car to drive endless circles around the loop, then get out and go for a hike.

WBraun

climber

Jun 27, 2016 - 12:02pm PT

It's mostly done to keep open lanes for emergency vehicle responses.

Fire, rescue and LEO on weekends and big holidays.

Sorry ......

Alexey

climber

San Jose, CA

Jun 27, 2016 - 12:08pm PT

If they want to throttle the rate at which cars can get into the east Valley, they would let to turn left to Sentinel bridge for cars that want to go back out of the park, but they force them to go to Curry Village. I thing they just want to scrue all Park Visitors, because they feel they own the Valley and they can do there whatever they want.

WBraun

climber

Jun 27, 2016 - 12:28pm PT

NoT true.
The traffic problem this year has been astronomical.
Visitor use is up over 20% over last year also.
They have to keep emergency lanes open.
In the past we've driven on bike, pedestrian paths, against traffic on the loops, and all sorts of other crazy shenanigans like you wouldn't believe.
Nobody really wanted to create the one lane nightmare you see right now but basically that was the only viable solution for now.
Sorry ......

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2016 - 12:54pm PT

Werner, I respectfully disagree. If they absolutely have to devote one lane exclusively for emergency services, then they're admitting that emergency access was subpar for all the years that they didn't have this policy in place, which is pretty much every year leading up to this one. Also, why would that lane be available for bus and tour group use if this is a major concern. More important, if it critical to have this access, they are making that far more difficult by creating a substantial, 20 minute bottleneck as the two lanes merge into one. That might have been the theory, but it's a bad one and any argument that it's working is absolute BS.

So who do I address my concerns to?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jun 27, 2016 - 12:57pm PT

They have to keep emergency lanes open.

They shouldn't let people in who don't know they're supposed to pull over.

Flip Flop

climber

Earth Planet, Universe

Jun 27, 2016 - 01:30pm PT

Fat Dad,
An 20% uptick in visitors could be the answer to your supposition.

.......in the ultimate box canyon

crankster

Trad climber

No. Tahoe

Jun 27, 2016 - 01:44pm PT

It's a real hassle until it's your kid who breaks a femur and needs an evacuation.

cragnshag

Social climber

san joser

Jun 27, 2016 - 01:52pm PT

4 lanes total should solve the problem. 2 in each direction all the way around the loop. While the equipment is there to build the roads, a parallel, but separated 8' wide paved bike path can be built so that cyclists don't have to compete with cars in the West end of the Valley anymore. This paved bike path can double as an emergency access lane

Then build a 5000 car parking garage with a grass roof so that you can't see it from up on the walls.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Jun 27, 2016 - 01:56pm PT

all the years that they didn't have this policy in place, which is pretty much every year leading up to this one.

I recall this one lane thing was being used on peak summer weekends at least 2 years ago.
It's not hard for climbers to avoid the gridlock if you expect it - just plan ahead; do a full day climb and get on your climb early.
Or climb in the Meadows. It's summer.
Definitely not fun to get caught in the gridlock, though.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2827364/Parking-in-the-Valley

looks easy from here

climber

Ben Lomond, CA

Jun 27, 2016 - 02:00pm PT

Five million people trying to visit three square miles in a three month block all via the same one way road...

There's a reason I don't go to The Valley after May or before September.

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2016 - 02:01pm PT

Ian,

Glad you and all the fat dads have my back. Gratifying. Thanks bro and all else wearing stretchy pants.

You can tell I have a bug up my ass about this. OK, so supposedly a 20% uptick in visitors over the previous year. However, visitation at national parks has been down in general, so we can probably infer that a 20% uptick is consistent with the normal number of visitors the park receives. Also, the claim that you're leaving a lane open is only true after where the single lane restriction is enforced. Before that, it's a parking lot and is counterproductive. I haven't heard any claims that emergency access has been impaired as a consequence of the earlier two lane system. Given that the only LEOs I saw were enforcing the lane closure, I don't see how that frees up more assistance where it's needed. In short, it doesn't seem like any consideration was given to whether the burden this created could be avoided by some other less restrictive means.

dikhed

climber

State of fugue and disbelief

Jun 27, 2016 - 02:04pm PT

Five million people trying to visit three square miles in a three month block all via the same one way road...

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Jun 27, 2016 - 02:33pm PT

I'm buying a bus based RV and putting life size photos of Asian's with cameras in the windows.

Moof

Big Wall climber

Orygun

Jun 27, 2016 - 03:00pm PT

There is a lot about how Yosemite is operated that makes me sympathetic to those who argue that the federal government is incompetent and can't be trusted. My left leanings are strained and rethought after every visit.

Then I go back to my corporate job and can't imagine that privatization can be the answer to anything.

Boils down to too many people. The park should not let in more people than the carrying capacity of the park. Either widen roads and add more parking or turn back visitors, anything else will not fix anything.

overwatch

climber

Arizona

Jun 27, 2016 - 03:03pm PT

I doubt anything that costs money is going to happen anytime soon. They gotta go Zion eventually

vvvvvvvvv poking right back at you

Byran

climber

Half Dome Village

Jun 27, 2016 - 03:22pm PT

I doubt anything that costs money is going to happen anytime soon. They gotta go Zion eventually

The problem with "going Zion" is that logistically, Yosemite is the opposite of Zion. Zion is a narrow slot canyon with plenty of wide open desert just a few minutes drive away. Yosemite Valley is guarded by miles of Lower Merced River Canyon - steep, narrow, V-shaped canyon prone to rockslides. Any sort of infrastructure needed to accommodate a park & ride system would need to be built out by Crane Flat or Yosemite West. That's a much longer bus ride. I sure wouldn't want to make that commute every day to go climbing.

Yosemite Valley is the place to build parking and accommodations. Wide U-shaped valley, with lots of natural fire-breaks. Let people in and give them a place to park their car and sleep until they leave. The lack of camping options in the Valley is a major contributor to the "commuter traffic" that happens every day.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Jun 27, 2016 - 03:23pm PT

we can probably infer that a 20% uptick is consistent with the normal number of visitors the park receives.

No, it's 20% above 2015 (for the same months).
The seasonal summer effect (say June vs. March) is larger than 20%.

So far this calendar year, visitation to the park has increased by over 20% from 2015’s record visitation. Both last year and so far this spring, the park has seen traffic congestion, delays of up to two hours and full parking lots on weekends and holidays.

http://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/news/yosemite-national-park-prepares-for-extremely-busy-weekend-and-anticipates-temporary-area-closures.htm

Park visitors: 4,294,381 (2015), 4,029,416 (2014), 3,829,361 (2013)

http://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/management/statistics.htm

These numbers are averages from 2001 through 2015:
Month % of visitors # of visitors
January 3% 110,018
February 3% 110,694
March 4% 149,151
April 6% 226,592
May 10% 357,201
June 13% 488,716
July 16% 598,387
August 16% 612,005
September 13% 470,338
October 9% 327,474
November 4% 159,812
December 3% 120,339

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/visitation.htm

overwatch

climber

Arizona

Jun 27, 2016 - 03:38pm PT

Bryan, you're right, I guess I meant Zion in the respect that no cars get to drive around.

c wilmot

climber

Jun 27, 2016 - 06:03pm PT

there is room in El Portal for a park and ride

but with the silly Merced river plan- its not going to be there

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Jun 27, 2016 - 06:31pm PT

Yep, it's usually pretty inaccurate to essentially guess why a person made a statement. Better to stick to things that are observable.

c wilmot

climber

Jun 27, 2016 - 06:36pm PT

bring back the train?

Lorenzo

Trad climber

Portland Oregon

Jun 27, 2016 - 06:48pm PT

Yeah, and then when the train line ends at El Portal, you get around the valley like this..

rwedgee

Ice climber

Jun 27, 2016 - 06:59pm PT

While the logging company is thinning the trees at Yosemite Falls have them clear another lane in the loop while they're there. Or the emergency crews can take the chopper.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Jun 27, 2016 - 07:06pm PT

Is this 2014 plan still in effect?
http://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/news/yosemite-national-park-announces-the-release-of-the-merced-wild-and-scenic-river-final-comprehensive-management-plan-and-environmental-impact-statement.htm
It's a fairly small page - easy to read.
Some selected features from it:

Camping will be increased by 37% in Yosemite Valley. This includes building 72 sites in the location of the former Upper and Lower River Campgrounds, 35 walk-in sites east of Camp 4, and 87 sites at the existing Upper Pines Campground. An additional 40 drive-in campsites will be provided at the Trailer Park Village in El Portal.

There will be an 8% increase in parking for day use visitors to Yosemite Valley. This increase includes a new 300-car parking lot located in El Portal with shuttle service to the Valley.

There is a brief mention of:

infrastructure within 100 feet of the river

If this is how the river corridor is defined, I can see how it affects many possible parking areas.
Maybe a seasonal "Taft Toe" parking area would be permitted and helpful.
On gridlocked summer weekends, people would have a good incentive to park there and get on a shuttle bus.

Lorenzo

Trad climber

Portland Oregon

Jun 27, 2016 - 07:19pm PT

Can we get rid of those stupid trees with the tunnels in them?

Seriously, that's an embarrassment.

And those houses for the bigwig staff, and the ranger's clubhouse. What's with that?

John M

climber

Jun 27, 2016 - 07:25pm PT

Clint,

be careful reading their statements of increases in parking or campsites. The increases were calculated in many cases after years of decreases. Such as campsites closed after the flood. They closed many campsites, and then made 4 versions of the valley plan, giving people the option of choosing an increase. But the increase was based on figures after they had closed many many sites. So what they were really saying is that they would give us back some of what they had closed.

Plus, they have not finalized the valley plan as they have been sued a number of times. They choose one of the versions, but qualified it by saying they could adjust any part of it that they needed to.

At least that is the way it was explained to me. I went to quite a few of the valley plan meetings. If you didn't have the history, then everything sounded great. Like, wow, they are increasing camping. But they weren't really.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Jun 27, 2016 - 07:35pm PT

So what they were really saying is that they would give us back some of what they had closed.

Right, I understood that.

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2016 - 08:06pm PT

Clint, thanks for posting the visitation numbers. However, it still begs the obvious question, which is if visitation has increased significantly, why place such a serious restriction on visitors' ability to move about? That's like saying because of increased use of the freeways, Caltrans must make repairs at peak usage times. Rather than have a rigid policy, the NPS should modify closures to adapt to usage, rather than the other way around.

John M

climber

Jun 27, 2016 - 08:36pm PT

Fat Dad.. On busy weekends it was taking 3 plus hours to do the loop in the valley. And that was 15 years ago. Even with both lanes open. That made it almost impossible for emergency crews to get around. They closed the park to new traffic a number of times before they came up with this solution of closing one lane. I use to work the park closures at the gate, turning back people

I agree with Ekat.. they will need a quota system. Hopefully it will include first come first served.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Jun 27, 2016 - 08:45pm PT

There are few options.

Without spending a few billion that will never be appropriated, it's turn them away at the gate.....or move the gate to the gateway cities, where there is lots of room.

Reservations, even for day visits.

Anyway you look at it, we're talking about limiting access, unless they are on foot.

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2016 - 08:51pm PT

John, my experiences are quite different. With the exception of the past ten years or so, I've visited the Valley regularly since about 1980. Sure, there can be traffic, but nothing on par with what I experienced this past weekend, which would not have been nearly as bad had everyone not been confined to one lane. And to clarify, I do not expect the rangers to fix anything. With all due respect, they are just grunts enforcing the rules, not making them. I just expect the powers that be not to make a bad situation worse. I'm surprised at the number of folks on this site simply shrugging their shoulders about this.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Jun 27, 2016 - 08:58pm PT

That's because we want access to fire, police, SAR. You don't, but I suspect you are a tiny minority.

You haven't been around the last 10 years, for the massive growth, so you want it to be the way it was. Like having a 10 year-old child now 20, and giving them toys.

Grow up.

John M

climber

Jun 27, 2016 - 09:00pm PT

I lived in the park for 24 years. 1990 to 2014. . I watched it change. I started visiting the park in the 60s, and came often until I finally moved there. Sure you could come in at certain times of the day and it was fine. But it gradually got worse and worse and the big weekends were crazy bad. And that was when both lanes were open. I worked the first park closures in the 90s because the valley was total gridlock.

so you open both lanes at all times.. then how do you get emergency crews around the valley? Because yes, it did become a problem. Of course they sort of helped make the problem by lining the road with boulders, but without the boulders, then it was often cars parked barely off the road, so then there still was no place for cars to get over so that emergency vehicles could get through.

Whats your solution, because believe me, this was talked about a lot by everyone.

Before this weekend trip, when was the last time that you visited the valley on a weekend?

Edit: when the lane closures first happened, I was pissed too. But I don't know a solution other then a quota system. And that will piss off a lot of people too.

jstan

climber

Jun 27, 2016 - 09:20pm PT

Make not having a car in the Valley a precondition for getting a camp site. Then make room for more camp sites by decreasing the number of parking slots.

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2016 - 09:24pm PT

Ken, go f- yourself. I have grown up, which is why I question the availabilty of other options rather than the one currently in place. Resorting to your ad hominem argument suggests that you've got little else to support your opinion. How grown up of you.

On-Site Flasher 69

Sport climber

Riverside

Jun 27, 2016 - 09:34pm PT

The NPS traffic division seems like a huge waste of money.
Bunch of fat girls waving cars thru pedestrian crossings. They usually have 4 of these rangers working one intersection, probably making $20/an hour. A traffic light would save on there wages, and probably do a better job.
What the hell Warner!?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jun 27, 2016 - 09:40pm PT

It's a pity Americans are incapable of handling roundabouts although it
seems Easterners are able to. I guess all the retards are in California.

Todd Eastman

climber

Bellingham, WA

Jun 27, 2016 - 09:40pm PT

Fats, why all the entitlement?

You were inconvienced, BFD!

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Jun 27, 2016 - 09:43pm PT

sorry you feel that way, Fats.

But I dont see you offering any alternative, and you simply won't respect other's posts about Emergency Services, or that it was just as bad with two lanes---but no access to Emergency Services.

You just want to gripe, instead of problem solve, enjoy your life. I'm sure your family does.

John M

climber

Jun 27, 2016 - 09:52pm PT

It was pretty shocking to me the first time I had to deal with the lane closures, and that was quite a few years ago. I don't remember when they first tried it. I'm not surprised that someone who hasn't been in the valley in 10 years is shocked at the changes. The park is in a no win situation. For Every change they make , or try to make, they are sued. I supported some of those lawsuits because I thoroughly disagreed with some of the changes, but I can also see how difficult it makes doing anything in the park. So then you end up with less then the best possible outcomes.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Jun 28, 2016 - 12:25pm PT

As I posted in the thread on SUPs, my biggest gripe is they are not ticketing any aholes who were driving in the bus lane (at least that I saw), just waving them back into the left lane periodically. It's bad enough to be stuck in one lane, but to have the rule breakers get off scot free and cause even more congestion, and block the lane for buses is really lame.

They don't have to ticket everyone, just one car at a time, enough to show there is a possible downside for being a selfish prick.

They need to ticket more.
They need to extend the shuttle bus to the full valley loop. Maybe only half the busses make the full loop.
They need to have more stops (e.g. the only one between El Cap and the village turn off is 4 mile trail) where they stop if someone is waiting or someone on the bus rings a bell.

For myself if I have to come at a time where I can't avoid the traffic I'll always bring bikes now. I'd much rather have the one lane restriction than a quota and being turned away at the gate.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Jun 28, 2016 - 12:55pm PT

I understand the desire to maintain access for emergency vehicles, but as others have pointed out, the parking lot at the ends of the mess would prevent access in any case. I've long resented those who get away with a trip in the shuttle bus lane after Stoneman Bridge on the way to the Village. Now they have a second opportunity to be jerks.

Still, I'm with Werner on this one. When the crowds are this big, the limited ability of the Valley to accommodate them will lead to the congestion we experience all too often.

I leave it to others to determine whether we can do better. I have my own belief that we can, but this is really the political process at work. Everyone says they want a less crowded Valley, but few tell how much less they're willing to visit to bring it about.

John

overwatch

climber

Arizona

Jun 28, 2016 - 12:59pm PT

if they don't enforce then f u c k it

nathanael

climber

Jun 28, 2016 - 01:11pm PT

I've seen someone get ticketed for it. Not sure how common it is though.

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2016 - 01:19pm PT

Ken, sorry to fly off the handle. It seemed like you were deliberating misreading my earlier posts. My bad. I'll make an effort to be more civil in the future.

The primary thing that I've tried to communicate that I think the NPS could explore other options, or build some flexibility into the current system. I understand the need for emergency services, but it's not like the prior system prevented their access, so that's not an end all be all argument. That doesn't support why they're letting buses use the second lane either. Finally, like (Fet?) pointed out, they're not enforcing it anyways, so how important is it really?

Sorry Todd, I don't have an entitlement attitude. The current system just sucks. Knowing they don't enforce it, the next time I could just blow through and not care, but I'd rather try to communicate with someone about discussing ways to fix it. They may totally blow me off (I half expect it), but I'm willing to make the effort, not just kibitz from behind a computer screen.

dikhed

climber

State of fugue and disbelief

Jun 28, 2016 - 01:23pm PT

he started in with the grow up bullsh#t, that always furthers the conversation

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Jun 28, 2016 - 03:49pm PT

After Trump deports all the Mexicans, the place should clear up nicely.

John M

climber

Jun 28, 2016 - 04:23pm PT

but it's not like the prior system prevented their access, so that's not an end all be all argument.

it slowed the response down considerably... so yes it did prevent it to some extent. I"m not sure why you don't seem to understand this. Did anyone die because of slowed response? I don't know. But it was only a matter of time. Its one thing for large distances to be the reason for a slow response. Its another for gridlock to be the reason.

I'm not sure you understand just how bad the situation was. At the south gate, where I worked the entrance for the concessions, the line was sometimes out past fish camp. 4 miles from the entrance. That was with both lanes open in the valley. That didn't slow people down from coming. What slowed them down was the possibility of the park closing. But there was such a huge negative response to it closing that the park had to figure some other way out to allow emergency response. This was what they decided on.

If you have a better solution, then how about saying what it is. The park doesn't close the second lane all of the time. Only when visitor numbers are expected to reach a certain point. They no more like doing it then you like experiencing it. I can guarantee that.

http://www.sierrastar.com/2016/05/18/78911/yosemite-responds-to-traffic-congestion.html?fb_comment_id=1003015263081517_1003688223014221#f2d8e662e4

WBraun

climber

Jun 28, 2016 - 08:51pm PT

I remember a cardiac call years ago on the mist trail where we got shut down by the traffic gridlock
and had to go on foot to get cars to move aside while we crawled ahead in the Rescue vehicle at less then 1 mph.

The response would have been normally a 1 minute drive and took about a half hour instead.

Majid_S who posts here can confirm this as he was one of the two people on foot getting people to move aside.

Lucky it was a false call when we arrived.

All this while some guy from LA who's never even been on code calls nor even driven code calls in bad traffic
says there's really no problem with emergency response due to traffic in Yose.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Jun 29, 2016 - 10:31am PT

One thought does come to mind. In the mid-1970's, Adrianna Gianturco, Jerry Brown's Caltrans administrator made the number one lanes of the Santa Monica Freeway into diamond lanes, thereby reducing the number of lanes available for normal commuting traffic. It created gridlock in both directions, often where none existed before. It also created some particularly delicious ironies, because the talented liberal cartoonist for the LA Times, Paul Conrad, had to commute downtown and was a victim of the Caltrans-caused delays. This produced a series of anti-diamond-lane cartoons that would have done an anti-environmentalist's heart good.

The opponents of the conversion to the diamond lane couldn't persuade the Brown administration to remove it, so they resorted to an old environmentalists' trick. They sued to enjoin the diamond lane because Caltrans failed to file an environmental impact report. Judge Matt Byrne ruled that the plaintiffs were correct, and enjoined the use of the number one lanes as diamond lanes.

Which raises the question, has the NPS filed an environmental impact report for the one-lane road rework? If so, where do I find it? If not, anyone interested in a "private attorney general" suit to enjoin the conversion because they failed to produce an EIR?

;>)

John

John M

climber

Jun 29, 2016 - 11:06am PT

LOL.. good idea John, except the closures are temporary each time, just cones used, so no impact required.

Okay.. time to think outside the box... motorcycle ambulances and fire trucks.. no lane closure required.

I also think that we need to get Werner his own helicopter.

brianszero

Trad climber

gunks

Jul 12, 2016 - 12:25pm PT

When I took my wife and kids to the valley a couple of years ago it was not what I expected. Sure it is beautiful, the walls come right out of the earth and the falls make you want to climb to the top and jump off.

Standing there in the valley with all the cars, buses, noise and the first mile or so of each hike with their now paved paths just showed how this park is being loved to death. We spent a few days hiking around trying to avoid the "beautiful valley" as much as possible.

I would say the best way to preserve the true Yosemite experience is to actually limit vehicles altogether. Tourists, travelers, climbers, ect would need to hike into the valley to experience the park.

WBraun

climber

Jul 12, 2016 - 12:42pm PT

They don't work at night and go to sleep at night just like normal people ....

WBraun

climber

Jul 12, 2016 - 12:52pm PT

This is NOT a major city.

This is a National Park.

I spent an hour in the gridlock last Saturday.

So I suffered the same as you.

Sorry .....

WBraun

climber

Jul 12, 2016 - 01:00pm PT

99.9999% of the time I never get get stuck in it.

This is the first time for me in years .....

kev

climber

A pile of dirt.

Jul 12, 2016 - 01:19pm PT

I really don't get why everyone is upset.

1) WHY would you want to be in the valley in the summer? It's a zoo and it's hot as f*ck. Sure there are places to hide from the shade but not the tourons.

2) If Werner nees a lane in an emergency then he should have one.

3) See #1 - I really don't understand heading to the valley to climb right now.

Go mid fall to mid spring and avoid all this horsesh#t.

kev

overwatch

climber

Arizona

Jul 12, 2016 - 01:25pm PT

Trying to avoid other climbers is my first guess

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2016 - 01:39pm PT

kev is right in a sense that the Valley is probably best avoided in the summer, if you have that option. However, Cragman's post seems to have come from the same place my initial one did, which is why doesn't there appear to be any effort to accomodate? Yosemite is a city in the summer, but it's run by a bunch of folks who cling to the notion that it's a quaint backwater. The concessions aren't run that way, so why are things like traffic?

Plus, if you read the link that someone posted from the local paper, the park spokesman indicated that the primary reason for the lane changes was to permit tour buses to drop off passengers and that access for emergency vehicles appeared to be secondary. Werner's recollection of only a single instance where emergency access was compromised (for what sounded like an out of state tourist who thought he was having a heart attack) wasn't too persuasive.

At this point, I'm kind of inclined to adopt kev's position and just avoid the place, though John's observation about the lack of an EIR has the lawyer in me sparked.

WBraun

climber

Jul 12, 2016 - 01:42pm PT

single instance where emergency access was compromised

No ...

That was one example.

You seem to want to project to make your arguments hold more water then there is ......

HighTraverse

Trad climber

Bay Area

Jul 12, 2016 - 03:34pm PT

I'm not going to throw any opinions about as I really don't believe there's an easy or straightforward answer. Unless it's "a little bit of each of the above"

So on Sat July 2 we came "down" to the Valley after 2 really fine days camping outside the Tioga entrance. We had two 17 year old lads from Bahston visiting and we wanted to show them Real Mountains. They had never been west of the Mississippi.
The previous day I took them up the approach to the North Ridge of North Peak. A lot of sun cupped snow and fast flowing water between lakes. They had a ball. I think. I've never met two less demonstrative kids in my life! Is this due to their leisure time lives largely existing in the virtual world?

So on the 3d Sarah and I took the chance of showing them The Valley. I mean what self respecting kid could go back to his peers and say he'd been in Yosemite and hadn't seen El Cap?
The logjam started at Tioga Pass. It was bumper to bumper from TPR to the pass. Then easy going even through the meadows.
Not even too bad getting into The Valley. At the Bridalveil Valls junction there was a line coming from the Fresno direction. Found a spot to park and hiked up to the falls. Planned to take them around the valley. 30 minutes later we finally arrived at the ElCap Bridge jct (less than 1/2 mile). The rangers had been struggling to keep cars out of the right hand lane even though it was clearly marked. If they had stopped anybody to write them up it would only have made things much worse for those stuck behind. Tour buses and sight seeing wagons went through as quickly as they could.

So tired of making about 1 mile per hour and seeing the folly of our plans, we bailed across El Cap Bridge. After all we still had to get the bloody car out of the Valley. We had the obligatory view and photos of boys in front of El Cap and skedaddled back to the 120 Jct. All went well until we got to the Big Oak Flat entrance. About 1 PM. We had no trouble, after all, we were fleeing the mayhem. But the inbound lane was bumper to bumper and mostly stopped for 4 miles! At least one car had croaked and was pulled off to the non-existent shoulder with hood up.

It is clear that on big holiday weekends, Yosemite capacity cannot meet the demand. From other posts here it appears it also cannot meet demand even on "regular" summer weekends. Even if there were sufficient transit to move people through the valley, that begs the question of how to get all the bloody cars in/out and where to park them?

This is a tough one.

Don Paul

Big Wall climber

Denver CO

Jul 12, 2016 - 04:47pm PT

Which raises the question, has the NPS filed an environmental impact report for the one-lane road rework? If so, where do I find it? If not, anyone interested in a "private attorney general" suit to enjoin the conversion because they failed to produce an EIR?

That would most likely be the local highway/roads department. I can't tell you the exact name since I'm not californian. In CO it would be called the Dept of Public Works. If the traffic backed up to a state highway, then maybe the state agency would be involved.

If the NPS believes that it has discretion to make these kinds of rules, then I think you would need to exhaust your administrative remedies. You would need to follow whatever internal procedures they've devised for dealing with public complaints, then appeal, just write to the agency head if there seems to be no other procedure. The Dept of Interior has some kind of process for this, although I could not get them to ever respond (on other issues). Then give them a few months to ignore your correspondence, and leave at least one voice mail message for someone, then you can file an APA claim in Federal court.

kev

climber

A pile of dirt.

Jul 12, 2016 - 05:31pm PT

Kev....those of us that live right outside the Park, sometimes HAVE to travel through it to get anywhere....thus, my post.

Cragman, I'm NOT trying to be a dick hear but I'm gonna call you on the above quote - I believe that you're wrong and here's why. I'm not arguing that whatever happen at Crane flat didn't suck but the OP thread is about the valley proper.

1) You live on the eastside we're talking about the valley. Even if you're passing through from the east side you wouldn't be going through the valley proper where the traffic sh#t show is that this op posted about.

2) If you live in the park off 41 (aka wawonna, yosemite west, etc) you might be screwed IF AN ONLY IF you're driving to the east side on a summer weekend. Chances are you're heading up to the high sierras on the west side so there's no issue.

3) If you live outside the park off 140 you are not affected at all heading to the eastside. You'd drive as if you were heading to Reeds and avoid the valley sh#t show.

4) If you live off the 120 on the west side you have no issues to get anywhere.

Again not trying to be a dick even if I sound like one - I'm pre-apologizing

kev

cuvvy

Sport climber

arkansas

Jul 13, 2016 - 10:20am PT

Be happy you can climb in that beautiful park. How come everyone always looks at the negative?

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2016 - 11:07am PT

No ...

That was one example.

Werner, my apologies if I misconstrued your comment. That wasn't my intent. However, that was the only example you provided. I would have guessed that if you had a more compelling one, you would have shared it with us.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:14pm PT

Thread summarized - whine like baby because 1000's of other schmucks won't get out of your way during busiest time of day at busiest park on planet - and too stupid and lazy to find another option.

aspendougy

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:22pm PT

Just enter and leave the park from 1 a.m. until 4 a.m. in the morning, you will do fine.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:44pm PT

Be happy you can climb in that beautiful park. How come everyone always looks at the negative?

My short answer: Because we don't compare our current situation to a zero starting point. Being able to climb in the Valley at all certainly beats being unable to do so, I doubt any of us faced such an inability. So don't be surprised when, e.g., we don't view the proposed new campgrounds in the Valley plan as an improvement, but a reduction from what existed in 1995, and view that and not zero as a benchmark. Similarly, if we're used to having two lanes of traffic and we now have one, why would anyone expect us to say "Thank goodness we don't have zero?"

If there's any trend in Yosemite Valley, it's been to reduce as many accommodations as possible for people who don't take tour buses or stay with the concessionaire. There were two lanes of traffic (admittedly two-way) on both Northside and Southside drive in 1950, for heaven's sake, and there were large parking places at Happy Isles and the Village, among others, that are gone now. Yes, the annual visitor count is up (although I suspect tour buses have a lot to do with that), but how much of the crowding is due to increased private vehicle traffic, and how much to a conscious decision to make that traffic as inconvenient as possible?

And don't think this doesn't affect climbers and the future of the Park Service. The people arriving by private vehicle are, by and large, ordinary working families whose desire to support the parks depends, in part, on their experience. They can see what's going on -- particularly those with any memory. They know that there were service stations at Camp 4, Yosemite Village, Camp Curry, Chiquapin and now Tuolumne Meadows that are gone and never replaced. They know there used to be many more campsites in the Valley and elsewhere that are gone and never replaced.

And now, they see a road system with half the capacity of what existed 60 years ago. Why should they not conclude that if the NPS wants to declare war against their visitor experience, maybe it's time to declare war against the NPS?

Just to make it clear, I still see the need for access for emergency vehicles, but the impassable traffic jams at the beginning and end of the lane restrictions belie the idea that the lane restrictions help in that matter. Someone needs to re-think the Valley traffic patterns, and that probably includes, sad to say, new infrastructure. Otherwise, I can think of few better ways to alienate the public.

John

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Jul 13, 2016 - 02:51pm PT

Man, getting rid of the cars and a Disneyland style tram around the park would be an awesome improvement.

Car only permits if you have a campsite or lodging reservation.

But it would suck for those pre-dawn starts for big climbing objectives.... hard to figure out how to make it all work.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Jul 13, 2016 - 03:06pm PT

hard to figure out how to make it all work.

I'd start by making more campsites available to cut down on the day use traffic.

John

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 13, 2016 - 03:11pm PT

Traffic, camping, the general quality of life in the Valley...it's not going to get any better, to the contrary, a downward spiral seems inevitable.

gstock

climber

Yosemite Valley

Jul 14, 2016 - 11:48am PT

JE, what time period should the development benchmark be set at?

hellroaring

Trad climber

San Francisco

Jul 15, 2016 - 09:39am PT

I guess I was lucky, but I drove into the valley on July 4th for 5 days of camping with the family, with some pre planning we had a hassle free trip: drove in late afternoon, all the gridlock was headed out. When we left we drove out early in the AM. Bringing 6 bikes was a pain but it was worth it. Parked the car at the campsite & never used it the whole time we were there. Saw lots of people stuck in cars but we weren't one of them. And finally we brought all our food, coffee, beer, etc. The only time I stood in a line was to get ice for the coolers. It was 5 days of biking, hiking, picnics, and swimming in the river. All in one of the most beautiful places on earth. It was really nice!

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Jul 15, 2016 - 10:04am PT

GOP Platform Proposes To Get Rid Of National Parks And National Forests

Simple solution to parking problem, remove the attraction......

Splater

climber

Grey Matter

Jul 15, 2016 - 10:08am PT

"Car only permits if you have a campsite or lodging reservation"

If you're staying in a hotel, you have no more need for a car than many day users.

John M

climber

Jul 15, 2016 - 10:31am PT

Imagine in 10 or 20 years when 5 million people a year visit Yosemite. It will be gridlock for 5 months of the year.

cars make life easier. I have only a few problems with people using autos. Its when demand exceeds a limited supply, that we have problems.

the park added to the limited supply of parking by closing parking spots.

The only solution that I can see is to limit the number of autos allowed into the park. They in part do that by having limited entrance stations. But that just creates long lines. Once you limit the number of autos in the park, then most traffic issues disappear.

Half reservations and half first come first served is my solution. Plus they could have outside the park parking lots with shuttles into the park. And then add more valley shuttles.

by allowing autos into the park up to a certain point which would have to be determined, they would reduce the size of outside parking areas needed.

The last study I saw on how many buses they would need to service Yosemite if no auto were allowed, or only those with camping and hotel reservations, it was over 450.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 15, 2016 - 02:20pm PT

No good answers, glad I am pretty much finished climbing there. A seven mile long valley the whole world wants to see. A lottery system, or similar, is inevitable somewhere down the road.

overwatch

climber

Arizona

Jul 15, 2016 - 03:05pm PT

With guided climbing only like Hueco

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Jul 15, 2016 - 04:15pm PT

Imagine in 10 or 20 years when 5 million people a year visit Yosemite. It will be gridlock for 5 months of the year.

I see no trend in the statistics which suggests visitation will jump to 5 million / year.
The numbers have been peaking at 3.8 - 4 million since 1992 (and drop to 3.3 million in some years):
2014 4,029,416
2013 3,829,361
2012 3,996,017
2011 3,951,393
2010 3,901,408
2009 3,737,472
2008 3,431,514
2007 3,503,428
2006 3,242,644
2005 3,304,144
2004 3,280,911
2003 3,378,664
2002 3,361,867
2001 3,368,731
2000 3,400,903
1999 3,493,607
1998 3,657,132
1997 3,669,970 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Merced_River_flood
1996 4,046,207
1995 3,958,406
1994 3,962,117
1993 3,839,645
1992 3,819,518
1991 3,423,101
1990 3,124,939
1989 3,308,159
1988 3,216,681
1987 3,152,275
1986 2,876,717
1985 2,831,952
1984 2,738,467
1983 2,457,464
1982 2,415,587
1981 2,516,893
1980 2,490,282
1979 2,350,782
1978 2,569,268
1977 2,392,600
1976 2,682,400
1975 2,537,400
1974 2,274,600
1973 2,254,300
1972 2,190,301
1971 2,342,200
1970 2,277,200
1969 2,291,300
1968 2,281,100
1967 2,238,300
1966 1,817,100
1965 1,635,400
1964 1,547,000
1963 1,473,400
1962 1,505,500
1961 1,227,100
1960 1,150,400
1959 1,061,500
1958 1,139,300
1957 1,138,700
1956 1,114,200
1955 984,200
1954 1,008,000
1953 969,225
1952 973,971
1951 858,405
1950 820,953
1949 808,372
1948 745,899
1947 777,622
1946 640,483
1945 290,569
1944 120,494
1943 116,682
1942 319,816
1941 597,863
1940 506,781
1939 466,552
1938 443,325
1937 481,492
1936 431,192
1935 372,317
1934 309,431
1933 296,088
1932 498,289
1931 461,855
1930 458,566
1929 461,257
1928 460,619
1927 490,430
1926 274,209
1925 209,166
1924 105,894
1923 130,046
1922 100,506
1921 91,513
1920 68,906
1919 58,362
1918 33,527
1917 34,510
1916 33,390
1915 33,452
1914 15,145
1913 13,735
1912 10,884
1911 12,530
1910 13,619
1909 13,182
1908 8,850
1907 7,102
1906 5,414
http://www.nationalparked.com/US/Yosemite/Visitation_History.php (1906-2012)
http://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/nature/park-statistics.htm (2012-2014)

I have no idea where you get the "5 months a year" concept.
The crowding season has always been weekends,
from Memorial Day to Labor Day.
That's 3 months, 12-13 weekends, 24-26 days of the year.
Month % of visitors # of visitors
January 3% 110,018
February 3% 110,694
March 4% 149,151
April 6% 226,592
May 10% 357,201
June 13% 488,716
July 16% 598,387
August 16% 612,005
September 13% 470,338
October 9% 327,474
November 4% 159,812
December 3% 120,339
from
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/visitation.htm (average visits by month)

WBraun

climber

Jul 15, 2016 - 04:29pm PT

Right now it's a zoo.

Donini is missing out big time.

It's awesome!!!!!!

Full gridlock will commence in 1/2 hour again like yesterday ......

WBraun

climber

Jul 15, 2016 - 04:43pm PT

Walleye!!!!

How come you're not managing the ice box ...... :-)

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Jul 15, 2016 - 05:25pm PT

At each the entrance to the park the should install a large boulder. If at least one person per car can climb a V0 the car can enter.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 15, 2016 - 05:36pm PT

As I get older I get less tolerant. So much good climbing out there where traffic is not, and won't become in my lifetime, a problem. So long Yosemite, you were a big part of my climbing life.
Actually, for me, the camping hassles in the Valley are more of a deterrent then the traffic.

John M

climber

Jul 15, 2016 - 05:44pm PT

Clint, you took me too literally. I just picked a date off the top of my head. But having been in the park for 25 years, I have seen the shoulder seasons become more impacted. Yes, at this point its primarily between memorial day and labor day, but the shoulder seasons are getting busier. Mid April through Sept. As for why in 96 it started decreasing. In 96 was when it went to total gridlock. The park barely had any answers for it, except to close the park. That turned off a lot of people who had traveled far to see it or who would travel far. Plus the park stopped most of its advertising at that time. Now its back to advertising and there have been few articles in the news about gridlock, so the numbers are back to increasing.

the overall trend is upward. Some reasons it drops are because of economies both here and around the world. And some times its because of weather. A wet June can change things fairly dramatically. Even the fires in the last few years around the state changed numbers at times. Many of the overseas visitors come anyway because they are on tours, but Americans often change their plans last minute because of things like weather or smoke, or reports of crowds.

Is there a saturation point? I would say probably. Have we reached it? I don't know.

These are just my guesses/understandings based on 25 years of living in the park.

If I am full of sh#t.. well, some think so.. heh heh.

Could you project 30 years down the road and believe that the numbers would be up? If so, then my position is why not do something about it now. Create a better plan. Create a flexible plan. One with perhaps outside the park parking areas with shuttle buses, plus some sort of number that represents a too crowded point. There is such a point. At some number, the park goes from moving to gridlock. It might be moving slowly, but its moving. People are in and out of parking spots as they sight see. But then at some point people just give up and don't move their autos. And then there is no more parking and we have gridlock. I'm certain the park could figure out that number and could figure out at what number the park flows reasonably and use that as the cut off point, where if one wanted to enter, then they would have to take a shuttle. If they did that, then they wouldn't need a reservation system. Only for those with campsites or hotel reservations who would have guaranteed entrance with their auto.

Thats my basic vision. I am open to suggestions.

Lorenzo

Trad climber

Portland Oregon

Jul 15, 2016 - 05:52pm PT

It seems there is something else going on besides Increased visitation

There doesn't seem to be any more visitation than is 1995, for example, at least according to the NPS statistics.
Since that time, visitation actually dipped for the early 2000's. Plenty of time to plan for the visitation of citizens entitled to visit the park.

Maybe the reduced budgets have something to do with it.

A 50% decrease in budget might have something to do with providing for visitors.

John M

climber

Jul 15, 2016 - 06:06pm PT

4 million may be somewhere around the saturation point as housing/camping is one of the choke points. If there is a saturation point. But then they are building more hotels outside the park. One is currently being built in Oakhurst. So I believe that the numbers could yet go up.

edit:

3 new hotels in Oakhurst.

http://www.sierrastar.com/news/article87813777.html

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 15, 2016 - 06:23pm PT

New hotels in Oakhurst only exacerbate the situation. I left Yosemite this Spring thru the south entrance and was shocked by the miles long line of cars trying to enter.

overwatch

climber

Arizona

Jul 15, 2016 - 06:24pm PT

Since that time, visitation actually dipped for the early 2000's. Plenty of time to plan for the visitation of citizens entitled to visit the park.

Wasn't that during the time when gas prices were out of control?

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Jul 15, 2016 - 06:52pm PT

JE, what time period should the development benchmark be set at?

Greg, I wasn't setting a benchmark for planning purposes. I was setting forth my understanding of why people complain when we still get to climb in the Incomparable Valley. Few now remember staying at the Glacier Point Hotel or campground, and I, at least, don't remember anything but a remnant of a foundation or two at Andersonville on the way to Nevada Fall. I do, however, remember a Valley with more than double the number of campsites we have now, and with much more dispersed parking

The centralization of parking in the Village, and the shuttle-bus-only motorized transport in the eastern Valley creates a clumping of visitors - and visitor impact - that's worse than what we'd get under the former regime. I see this particularly at Happy Isles, when what seems like a herd of Galapagos Tortoises starts up the trail as each shuttle bus arrives. Has the limitation of private vehicle traffic and parking really given us a better visitor experience? While many will say "absolutely!" I don't find it intuitively obvious that a majority of visitors would agree.

Of course, I also remember the 9:00 p.m. traffic jams for the Firefall, so not all was idyllic. And I know how much traffic on the trails out of the Valley, particularly the Upper Yosemite Fall and Half Dome trails, increased in the last 65 years. When I first got to the top of Half Dome in August of 1962, my mother and I were the only ones on the cables, and there were only three other people on the summit. It still wasn't much more crowded in the late 1960's, but by the late 1970's it seemed the world was hiking to Half Dome.
That said, I find the concept of "carrying capacity," as required in, say, the Merced River Plan, somewhat arbitrary, because the capacity depends on the amount of infrastructure. I personally think we're at a suboptimal amount of infrastructure to accommodate the crowds.

And Lorenzo, I have no doubt that budget cuts make visitor accommodation more difficult, but I think we'd have more public support - and insistence upon - adequate budgets if the visiting public was more convinced that the NPS had a real intent to consider their convenience and their desire not to waste their vacation time in queues.

John

johntp

Trad climber

socal

Jul 15, 2016 - 07:42pm PT

Last time I went to Yos was for the facelift in 2014. It was such a cluster I decided to never go back.

Edit: I love the place but it has just gotten too much trouble to deal with. Lot's of other places to enjoy without the hassle and crowds.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Jul 15, 2016 - 09:08pm PT

John M,
There was an upward trend from 1906-1992 when it hit the same peak as in recent years (3.8 - 4 million).
From 1992-2014 it's semi random in the range 3.3 - 4 m.
I agree the 4 m number might represent "full capacity" or gridlock, when more people can't get in on summer weekends due to long lines at the entrance stations during casual hours (say 10am - 4pm).
So in a sense, the visitation is already limited by this mechanism.

The January 1997 flood might be one of the reasons that visitation did not reach the 1996 peak of 4 million again until 2014.
(Since campground capacity was reduced at that point with the closing of Lower River, Upper River).

If you think entrance reservation permits are a good solution, there would need to be a "passing lane" to get the permit holders past the other folks stuck in line at the entrance stations.
It seems like a better solution for people who want to plan their visit in advance is to avoid summer weekends or enter early/late in the day.

WBraun

climber

Jul 15, 2016 - 09:46pm PT

there would need to be a "passing lane" to get the permit holders past the other folks stuck in line at the entrance stations.

passing lane has been in effect all summer already.

There's 3 entrance lanes at Arch Rock, Wawona, Hodgdon now.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Jul 15, 2016 - 09:52pm PT

Yes, I've seen the 3 lanes at Hodgdon Meadow on 120 West entrance.
They definitely help speed up the entrance process.

But the lanes at Hodgdon Meadow are only maybe 50' long each.
And backup extends way back on the highway.
So it would need the equivalent of a coned-off lane for much longer to enable bypassing the long line.

WBraun

climber

Jul 15, 2016 - 09:56pm PT

OK Clint.

I'll get the back hoe and dig a secret bypass tunnel for you and Ed Hartouni .....

overwatch

climber

Arizona

Jul 15, 2016 - 10:01pm PT

they are doing God's work

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Jul 15, 2016 - 11:00pm PT

No need for my sake, Werner! :-)
I drive in early and late in the day.

Looks like traffic is still busy in spots at 11pm on a summer Friday night?
(More likely, just cars slower near stop signs and crosswalks).
I bet it's all red at noon on Saturday, though.
http://www.google.com/maps/@37.7428503,-119.5859011,16z/data=!5m1!1e1?hl=en

As mentioned earlier, it seems that the summer weekend gridlock would be reduced by adding parking in the east end of the Valley.
(So people can get their cars off the road, and have a little fun outside before braving the drive back home).
But getting approval for new parking lots or to redo old ones (former Upper and Lower River Campgrounds) appears very hard to do.

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber

I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!

Jul 16, 2016 - 12:28am PT

just get rid of the gas station at t meadows,

the trend is not more people wanting to see the park,

it's that people who visit the park are willing to put up with more agony,

usually foreigners who want to be like stoopid mericans,

nobody at kings canyon right now, any good climbs there?

trundle a big one onto the 140 if you want to stop traffic,

or maybe some TNT at the rodgers creep,

people need their cars to carry all their stuff,

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jul 16, 2016 - 08:59am PT

when coming into the park late (like 9am) and the lines are long I usually have the windows rolled down and often shut off the engine, waiting... you never know if all the cars in front of you are going to have to pay, or if they all have a pass...

...then a big smile for the occupant of the kiosk... I know many by name (and if I don't Linda reminds me later). They recognize me and welcome me back.

Time is too short to get upset with the traffic, or the traffic regs. What a gift to have to slow down, the time it affords looking at that magnificent landscape.

I never tire of it.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jul 16, 2016 - 12:20pm PT

ah, the wonderful floor of the Valley,

go out before everyone wakes up, you share it with the wildlife, quiet until the hour that the garbage trucks start to make their clamorous rounds... but it is so beautiful, cool and crisp with the Sun slowly rising in the East. And you walk in that quiet to the sound of the tread of your feet and your breathing getting a bit heavier as you wander up a slope seeking the first climb of the day.

You can even imagine what it might have been like before so many discovered it...
...incredibly, that many still have not found all the parts of that Valley, and slow to wake from their revery, they often leave it for the others willing to confront that boundary between having a dream and living one.

Rosamond

Trad climber

Truckee, CA

Jul 18, 2016 - 09:53pm PT

The best solution is to stay out of the valley during june, july, and august. Too damn hot to climb then, anyway.

zBrown

Ice climber

Jul 18, 2016 - 10:13pm PT

Mt. Whitney uses lottery!

Get in line dudes and dudees.

BuddhaStalin

climber

Truckee, CA

Jul 19, 2016 - 12:06am PT

California has many, many places to climb that are not yosemite valley. I dont see what all the habbub is aboot.

mouse from merced

Trad climber

The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.

Jul 19, 2016 - 06:27am PT

Ed, I love your mindset.
Go with the flow if you are in a vehicle.
The next day, if you snooze, your loose.
And you may have to endure the gridlock at the bases of popular routes.

If you don't have cars, you don't have gridlock, it's not possible--
you have instead what Lamon and the pioneers had,
which was a tough life, sure, but peace has its price.

But this is only a pipe dream of a time that will never come again
until the grizzlies return to the Valley of the Ahwahnichi.

Don Paul

Big Wall climber

Denver CO

Jul 19, 2016 - 07:24am PT

How about this? Allow buses to use the emergency lane, but not cars. Gridlock is for people who want to bring their own cars. There has to be a place outside for people to park and get on the bus, though. Shutting down the gas station is a good idea too.

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber

ne'er–do–well

Aug 28, 2016 - 06:59pm PT

Impersonating an LEO c/o Ebay ...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/zztop4712-1967/m.html?item=282151050808&hash=item41b1835e38%3Ag%3AQgUAAOSwZVlXwNng&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Don Paul

Big Wall climber

Denver CO

Aug 28, 2016 - 07:54pm PT

VISITOR MISBEHAVIOR ON DISPLAY AS US PARKS AGENCY TURNS 100

The Wolf

Trad climber

Martinez, CA

Aug 29, 2016 - 01:02pm PT

The back up on the south side of the Valley seems to be because of the Left turn at Sentinel Bridge.
That backs up because of controlled traffic turning left to get from the Village to the Lodge. When the traffic backs up the cars cannot make the left to go across Sentinel Br. The people wanting to go straight to Curry get held in the same jam up.

Is there a way to open up a lane from the Chapel that goes straight through? Or a traffic control officer to wave people through?

At the lodge, traffic is held up by the pedestrian crosswalk. Seems to me a pedestrian over pas could solve the problem of not stopping traffic every 3 minutes.

Flip Flop

climber

Earth Planet, Universe

Aug 29, 2016 - 01:10pm PT

The miscreants, dolts and ne'erdowells in that meadow with rocks are clearly jaywalking and gumming up the works. I'm pretty sure that homeless people are sleeping in their vans. I seriously fear another hippie riot.

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

Aug 29, 2016 - 03:10pm PT

hey there say, ed...

wow, as to this quote:

wonderfully well said... i love this!

thanks for giving us a 'gem' to enjoy, and imagine,
as to your scenery, about you, at these times...

love and miss the old yosemite... :)