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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 23, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
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Now that the Yosemite Mountaineering School and Gas Station is closed this where the Yosemite Mountaineering School is based out of. Worked as a guide from 76 to 83 and started in 76 based out of the now current TM Visitor Center. We had the whole building and would have 40+ clients a day.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 23, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
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Why is this so?
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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
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Tuolumne River Plan closed the Gas Station and this is the only place that had room
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jun 23, 2016 - 03:27pm PT
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Whoa! So this is what it is coming to. Seems like the NPS is focusing on a redirection of the park's facilities program.
Is there anywhere to buy gasoline in the park anymore?
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jun 23, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
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You can still buy gasoline at Crane Flat, but that's it.
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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
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crane flat, el portal, wawona
you dont want to know how much gas, time and added traffic happens when nps and aramark vehicles, including hiker shuttle, stationed in tm when they have to drive to crane flat for gas.
just think of how much gas has been used by vehicles having to drive to crane flat or el portal to get gas over the years when they removed the valley gas station
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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2016 - 03:36pm PT
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walter!!!! yes
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Jun 23, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
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It's funny that people don't even know about the TRP. Just goes to show how much our national park management changes stuff without the public ever knowing.
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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
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yes the TRP was snuck through when every one, well really hardly any one, was focused on the MRP.
changes are just starting
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jun 23, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
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Why don't they build a building where people can get out of the rain?
That box looks metal. Hope it doesn't conduct.
Workman's comp filing coming up?
ADA compliant?
Climbing and guiding is a traditional recreational use of the YNP and to shove the guides to a box is weak.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jun 23, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
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you dont want to know how much gas, time and added traffic happens when nps and aramark vehicles, including hiker shuttle, stationed in tm when they have to drive to crane flat for gas.
My point exactly. The shutting down of gas stations in TM and the valley just causes people to drive further to get a refill.
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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
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yep right next to the tm store
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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 23, 2016 - 03:52pm PT
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Will the road be the next vestige of civilisation to go?
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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2016 - 03:57pm PT
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No but I think the TRP calls for all turnouts through the meadows to be removed, no stopping just take photos as you drive through. Cathedral Peak Parking to be moved to a new lot at the visitor center. Possible removal of parking/turnouts at Glen Aulin shortcut. All employee housing to moved uphill of Lodge Parking lot. NPS stables to moved over with Aramark Stables.
Just a few from the TRP
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 23, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
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Ouch.
Are my tiki torches stashed inside that cold steel box?
Because without merriment, you got nothin' ...
First, we dream of becoming.
Then, we attain those experiences.
Last, we dream of what was.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 23, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
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This IS sooooooooo stoooopid .......
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NorCalNomad
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Jun 23, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
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Bet Aramark is salivating at the idea of more people getting towed from running out of gas.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jun 23, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
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All employee housing to moved uphill of Lodge Parking lot.
So they are going to move all the employee housing above the parking lot, cut down a mess of trees and pour cement for all the tent floors? ...)-;
RIP Tuolumne gas station & Mountaineering School...
RIP to my tent..also know as...Casa de Que...(-;
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jun 23, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
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We should all write essays about what YMS in the Meadows has meant to us.
Tarbuster will be the first one to complete that task...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 23, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
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Slabs
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fosburg
climber
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Jun 23, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
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This was a cherished gas station? Are you allowed to still hang out thereabouts and talk sh#t or did they make that illegal?
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 23, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
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That ice locker is incredibly uninviting!! Very sad indeed.
It does help to have a historical perspective. I remember going up the Tioga Road before the new one was built. I was around six years old. It was a real adventure, especially down to Lee Vining, it scared my Mom to death.
Then a couple of years later, the new road opened. I recall it was around 1958. Just prior to that, both Ansel Adams and Dsvid Brower had strongly protested the desecration involved in dynamiting the granite slabs near Olmstead Point, as part of the construction of the new road. You can read Ansel Adams letter in Trexler's (sp?) book on the history of the Tioga Road. It is very strongly worded.
The new road opened up the area to many more visitors, and made possible the subsequent flowering of the climbing scene in Tuolumne. Yet for the previous generation, it was somewhat of a desecration. I always felt the road was a reasonable compromise. Strait, functional, but not a four lane beast. I wouldn't be surprised if both Ansel Adams and David Brower saw the work near Olmstead Point and said, "Not nearly as bad as I imagined."
But going up the old road as a little kid was exciting.
One question I have? Pratt and ?? (Wally Reed) did the regular route on Fairview in the Summer of 1958, and I was wondering if that was indeed the first summer that the road was opened?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Jun 23, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
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(OP photo) Can I get some block ice outta that thing?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 23, 2016 - 09:20pm PT
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It is ironic.
First, YMS guides had run of the TM Visitor Center, which was and is a somewhat decent building with a little charm of its own, IIRC.
Wasn't it faced or built up with river stone to mid-height or some such?
Then they crammed us into the ribcage of the gas station, and we quibbled, but made do. Lovingly, we called our makeshift lair in the back The Rat Room.
Now we pine away for the demise of that indignity because we've been stuffed into a decommissioned icebox.
And yes, slabs.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Jun 23, 2016 - 09:27pm PT
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This IS sooooooooo stoooopid .......
Since you say everything is stoopid, I guess it was just a matter of time until I agreed with you on something.
Curt
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jun 23, 2016 - 10:20pm PT
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You've got to be joking...? Seriously...?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Jun 23, 2016 - 11:13pm PT
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I happened to drive one of the Litell (SP) sisters from Mammoth to the valley in 1990.
She had us stop at the Tuolumne gas station.
I prettymuch jaw dropped to see Shultz and Croft recovering from their Nose speed record (the day before) in a van next to the bathroom.
Croft was scolding Mary cuz she had already washed the chalk off her hands of whatever she had climbed earlier.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jun 24, 2016 - 12:01am PT
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This thread is lamenting the end of a gas station.
No...IMO, it's lamenting an end of an era..Great times and youthful memories...
The gas station was also a mountain shop, store, Mountaineering school, gathering place, a kitchen, picnic area hang-out, party place, gym, winter food stash, and Home to a lot of handsome dudes and dudetts.
The Tuolumne Lodge housing is a whole other story.....My tent was steps from the JMT and i fell asleep each night listening to the Tuolumne river. Columbine flowers, wild onions, tiger lilies, penstemon flowers grew behind the employee tents... and the swim hole, The finger, was just out my door down the trail a tiny bit to the right......sigh..
When they move the Lodge employing housing...The tents will be looking at the parking lot, and they will probably cram all the tents smack dab next to each other..yep, and end of an era...
BTW the tents are not permanent structures..They are only up for about 3 months.
My tent after a heavy winter...
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jun 24, 2016 - 12:45am PT
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Why don't they move the YMS back to the TM Visitor Center? Might have some blocks of chalk and shoes for sale there too? But housing YMS in a derelict ice machine!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 24, 2016 - 05:50am PT
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Why don't they move the YMS back to the TM Visitor Center? Might have some blocks of chalk and shoes for sale there too? Some of us remember when you could find blocks of chalk brimming a wood staved barrel inside the TM Visitor Center/old YMS location. I know you do, Bruce.
Thanks for that Nita!
xoxo
Yes, Jim Brennan. The guides should be treated better, in general.
The downsizing of the TM aspect of YMS has been going on for some time.
The guides have never been treated with much respect. It's the American way, sadly. (My best and most appreciative guided client, by far, was a European). We have a thriving indoor gym industry, and at the same time one of the best and most historical of guiding opportunities in the country has been downsized to a pillbox.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jun 24, 2016 - 06:57am PT
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Jim Brennan....Seriously as in how insulting to squeeze the guiding school into a ice machine...
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 24, 2016 - 07:13am PT
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Interesting to see the comments here. Lots of true colors to be shown.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jun 24, 2016 - 07:44am PT
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I voted on the TRP, but almost by accident. Went into the new Visitor Center, partly because it IS such a cool old building -- I think the stonework is real, Tarbuster, a classic CCC-era structure like Ostrander. Inside there was notice of the Plan process. This was a few years ago, but not many. It was disturbing, so I wrote 'em to keep it like it is. I mean was.
There was no threat of invasion of rampant civilization like Squamish, but it was nice to park off the roadway if you were going to hike up to Cathedral. There wasn't enough room there anyway, for all the people who wanted to get off the road and hike in the woods. Made no sense to erase that parking lot. And it led to the dustiest stretch of the JMT, but that helped a lot of folks to simply get out. Now they have to keep their kids from getting run over as they strain to park on the shoulder of the road.
The planning process is out of control, but that's the Guv'ment for ya. My brother works for the Forest Service, and it's actually worse. Sensible is the last thing we can expect out of them, unfortunately. It's a shame there's nothing iconic that's immediately threatened in Tuolumne, like Camp 4 was in the Valley, to rally a sizable protest around. "We want our gas station back" doesn't have quite the right ring to it. So nothing will happen about this but a bunch of us -- the people, unfortunately, who actually do know better how the place should be managed -- reduced to spluttering about the good old days.
Just a bunch of old farts sittin' in the sun on the "Dead Pecker Bench" talkin bout the old days. Move on along, nothing to see here. Oh wait...now they removed our bench too.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jun 24, 2016 - 07:58am PT
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Charlie is still working...?
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jun 24, 2016 - 08:00am PT
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For a few more months
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jun 24, 2016 - 08:09am PT
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Perhaps John Redhead can intervene.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Jun 24, 2016 - 08:56am PT
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Seems like this is the current Visitor's Center?
From Aug. 2015.
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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 24, 2016 - 09:00am PT
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"SAR guys are going to have to find a new place to dump in the morning"
So right on that Walleye, I couldnt believe the daily morning SAR line at the Gas Station bathroom. They should use the NPS facilities since they are NPS, oh but wait those are so dirty . They were complaining the other day because the Grill Rest Rooms were not open yet and that they had to use the Gross NPS Camp Ground Bathrooms.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jun 24, 2016 - 09:03am PT
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Interesting to see the comments here. Lots of true colors to be shown. ^^^Typical smarmy response from the new supertopo flatworm.
There is nothing wrong with disagreeing or lamenting with some of the decisions that Park service/ The Government makes....
The difference between us and the as#@&%e Bundy fools you support is...None of us is going to get all hate hotheaded & pull out guns to occupy Tuolumne Meadows.....
I can disagree with some of the decisions they make ... but i can also live with them.
ps...The icebox room is just down right rude...imo
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jun 24, 2016 - 09:23am PT
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Me too but i got over it...Escoencylopedia is entitled to his remarks which sometimes are funny and provocative...How's the boating ekat...?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 24, 2016 - 09:25am PT
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Reading comprehension, people! There's no judgement implicit in the 'true colors' statement.
Put the guillotine away.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jun 24, 2016 - 09:33am PT
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Well, if i recall correctly from grade school ......> A flatworm.. eats and shits out of the same hole..
excuse me for laughing...edit> and being sharp.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 24, 2016 - 09:34am PT
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I'm at a loss trying to understand how a flatworm gets knickers so bunched up.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Boise, ID or the fricken Bakken, variously
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Jun 24, 2016 - 09:46am PT
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Madness!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 24, 2016 - 09:57am PT
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Steel Monkey said:
Seems like this is the current Visitor's Center?
From Aug. 2015. I think you're right. That changeover may have been a while back too.
Maybe the stone building is now used for campground reservations, possibly backcountry permits?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 24, 2016 - 10:03am PT
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I'm at a loss trying to understand how a flatworm gets knickers so bunched up.
Well Reilly, Escopeta isn't really a flatworm. Hope that helps...
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mikeyschaefer
climber
Sport-o-land
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Jun 24, 2016 - 10:55am PT
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Pretty sad to see the Rat Room closed down. Some of the best days of my life were spent hanging there. so many good nights spent at the campfire listening to TM, Swilliam and a host of others. The Gas-ineering was truly a special place.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jun 24, 2016 - 11:50am PT
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Typical smarmy response from the new supertopo flatworm.
Idaho, the home of ex LAPD cops, mormons, and flatworms.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jun 24, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
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I believe Esc may be a were-tapeworm. :0)
So, D.R., laid this out, about space for f*#king cars...
There wasn't enough room there anyway,
for all the people who wanted to get off the road and hike in the woods.
The road was laid out first to get traffic through the park. It was a grand thing they did, the engineers and the NPS. It really keeps the place pristine if it's managed correctly. But it is not, as we know.
If there are only a few pull-outs then traffic tends to keep moving. It's a two-laner always was, and that's good. Minimal impact is best. NO THROUGH TRUCKS is what I like, too. Keeps problems from occurring that would be nightmarish. The rule is like a stool softener.
I can imagine how harrowing it might be, though, trying to drop off a pack of hikers with no pull-outs, but then the ideal would have been for the NPS to provide buses to shuttle hikers in and out. A small shuttle stop with enough space to load and un-load safely would be minimal impact and get the job done.
And they need to be run on a timetable, running every so often, several times a day. The scheduling for high country runs now is such that if I wanted to go there, taking the earliest bus from Merced, I would get to the village AFTER the one bus has already left.
Needless to say, I'd have to spend an extra day in the valley or hitch out from Camp 4 that day. There goes my timetable for the hike.
God knows where the buses would load lower down, but El Portal would be a good place, IF you can find parking!
The scenario unfolds in my mind as I type of a car with tourons which has pulled into the bus stop to take pictures and the bus has its tail out in the lane...not good. But it beats a larger PL and many vehicles entering the area that don't need to be there. An entry gate that only the shuttle drivers can open remotely might eliminate that scene.
Trouble is that people want to camp in the high country and there are so many of them that a large campground is a must, if that is to be allowed. I think it never should have been allowed, ever.
Planning is not easy. Hindsight is, however. We have experienced a growth of wilderness use that was likely totally un-dreamed of when the Park Service first okayed a road over the top so long ago.
All you ST kiddies who lived there when younger are right to lament the passing of things such as the school and gas station, but they ought not to have been there in the first place, IMO. So you must, and I'm sure you all do, appreciate your luck in having been able to work and play and hang where you did when you did. It's been a pleasure reading of your experiences.
nita, you should write a memoir...
You'd be very pleased with your results, I'm sure, if you find time.
I have been choking on bile over the mismanagement of the high country by the NPS over the years. They allowed WAY TOO MANY FOLKS access to the place. Camping out of a car is a recommended method of building a healthy appreciation of the outdoors. But it doesn't need to come at the expense of abusing or changing the places which are unique and to be preserved for that uniqueness alone.
In all fairness to the bureaucracy, they gain experience by their mistakes, like anyone, if it's pointed out that it is a mistake, whether they do anything to rectify it or not. It's up to us to ensure responsible folk are in those offices. We do a shitty job.
We have only ourselves to blame and there's a lot of blame to go around.
In fact, the amount is HUGE! :0)
God bless you helpful Canadians, too!
edit: Walleye, I meant to say those are sorta genius-level and priceless images, bud.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 24, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
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The guide skool should get big azz trailer and tow it up there in the summer as their headquarters for their assaults onto the domes.
Get the trailer Dave B ......
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jun 24, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
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Wouldn't it have been more logical, from an environmental perspective, to shut down the gas station, remove the pumps, dig out the gas tanks, and simply leave the building with the mountain store and YMS where they were? I can see keeping the nasty gasoline drippings out of the meadow aqua-fir, but what environmental 'harm' was the guide school and mountain shop doing anyway? More chalk on the rocks spoiling the Meadows' wilderness experience? Seems more like a way to kill the culture so the rock climbing 'problem' is so greatly reduced that it disappears.
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kief
Trad climber
east side
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Jun 24, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
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Maybe the stone building is now used for campground reservations, possibly backcountry permits?
I don't know about campground reservations but they dole out backcountry permits from a building surrounded by a huge parking lot right after you turn off 120 to go to the lodge.
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Lurkingtard
climber
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Jun 24, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
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Slabs
Manboobs
~~~
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Dogfish
Trad climber
Squid Valley
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Jun 24, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
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Ugh, another end of another era. Nic would not be happy.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 24, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
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TM is a much better place for beginning and intermediate classes and guided clients when compared to Yosemite Valley. Especially in high summer.
The Valley is super crowded most of the time anyway right?
Maybe the final solution will be to relocate all of YMS down by the sewage treatment plant outside of El Portal.
Guides will present clients with a 10 min. screening of an excerpt from the film Valley Uprising, then shuttle them to an air-conditioned gym in Sacramento.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jun 24, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
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Nic would not be happy.
No doubt- what so ever...
He is wagging his index finger and shaking his head right now saying..."Jesus Christ .Bleep _ - _Bleep _ - _ Bleep !!
edit:
Maybe the final solution will be to relocate all of YMS down by the sewage treatment plant outside of El Portal.
Guides will present clients with a 10 min. screening of an excerpt from the film Valley Uprising, then shuttle them to an air-conditioned gym in Sacramento. LOL....
edit, the ridiculous icebox room... > Cal OSHA...No windows, ventilation or escape route..
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jun 24, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
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Any truth to the rumor Tuolumne Meadows has been renamed Majestic Meadows? Some kind of copyright thing. I heard the signs have already been changed.
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fosburg
climber
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Jun 24, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
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+1 Roy
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 24, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
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Bruce Morris said:
Seems more like a way to kill the culture so the rock climbing 'problem' is so greatly reduced that it disappears. Bingo.
Guiding and gear sales are seen as a liability, especially in the hideously risk-averse climate of American culture today.
Even Chouinard realized some time ago, it is much safer and more profitable just to sell the clothing.
Sell the dream, sell the idea, sell the pants. But God help us should we succeed in providing folks with the skills and requisite mindset to actually pursue the activity with grace and passion.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Jun 24, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
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Must be something I don't know about this. No pullouts on the TM road?
People will stop and take pictures regardless. Where will they stop?
On the road.
I was a ranger up there for a couple of summers, and will testify that there is a substantial portion of the public which leaves their brains at the entrance station. Could this be true of planners?
What is it I don't understand about this plan? Please enlighten me.
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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Jun 24, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
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Oh no, where's Grant going to sleep.?
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jun 24, 2016 - 10:36pm PT
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This horrific news and turn of events is a perverted mutation resembling the Military–industrial complex, Stalin’s Organ ("They didn't let you sleep? Well, after all, this is not supposed to be a vacation resort.”), and a classic example of the ”Abilene paradox.”
Nobody wants this, not even most NPS old timer’s. Maybe a few “drive by” planners who have since moved on to their next grade increase, or NPS planners who want to box in visitors as an inconvenience to management of “their Park.”
I commented years ago about the Tioga Road rehabilitation project and how the so-called storm water conveyance “improvements” (curbing) would basically corral all parking into designated areas, thereby eliminating most of the impromptu parking along the road, particularly between Tenaya Lake and the pass. Since these “improvements” were handled separately from the TRP, I consider this “segmentation.” Those knowledgeable with the NEPA will relate (read: vulnerable to injunction).
I’ve been a regular visitor to TM and the Tioga Road since the early 1960’s, including BC ranger 82 to 94. Not much has changed, or needed to. Why now? Please throw away the “TRP.” It’s neither needed, afforded, wanted, nor a good idea. It’s no more than a solution in search of a problem (that doesn’t exist).
Edit: Before the CCC Mess Hall, the original YMS for TM was at the TM Lodge, housed in that rectangular concrete-slab tent nearest the back dock. That's a lot better than an ice locker!
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Jun 24, 2016 - 11:15pm PT
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Majestic Meadows? Forest Lawn to be exact.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jun 24, 2016 - 11:19pm PT
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Chris wrote:
I think the TRP calls for all turnouts through the meadows to be removed, no stopping just take photos as you drive through. Cathedral Peak Parking to be moved to a new lot at the visitor center. Possible removal of parking/turnouts at Glen Aulin shortcut. Wayne wrote:
No pullouts on the TM road? Just current unpaved pullouts in the section next to the main meadow, apparently, and maybe up the hill for the Glen Aulin shortcut.
The current Cathedral parking is messy.
But good luck getting approval to pave a new lot?
Maybe park where the gas station was?
Where to park and take photos of meadow?
 paved pullout at W end of meadow
visitor's center
store/grill
Lembert Dome
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Gilroy
Social climber
Bolderado
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Jun 25, 2016 - 07:16am PT
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nita bump
I am not on the Escopotato H8T crew but this was funny and well deserved for Esopeter's other trolls and general pot-stirring.
Flatworms
Unlike other bilaterians, they are acoelomates (having no body cavity), and have no specialized circulatory and respiratory organs, which restricts them to having flattened shapes that allow oxygen and nutrients to pass through their bodies by diffusion. The digestive cavity has only one opening for both ingestion (intake of nutrients) and egestion (removal of undigested wastes);
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatworm
Funniest comment in weeks.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 25, 2016 - 07:28am PT
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^^^ That was a good one.
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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2016 - 11:57am PT
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 25, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
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Why don't they build a building where people can get out of the rain?
....so people can get ready to climb in the rain.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jun 25, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
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I heard from a high-ranking anonymous source in the Access Fund that they were told that a mountain shop with gear, shoes and ropes etc. could be built in Lee Vining.
"Let's all caravan to Lee Vining this morning to buy a couple blocks of chalk."
None too convenient I'd opine.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 25, 2016 - 10:05pm PT
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Nita, I too had an employee tent at the Lodge right next to the river, back in the late 60's and early 70's. That was the place to stay for the summer!! It was about 20 yards to the "Side Hall" where the employees ate. You could go in there for a meal and run into Wayne Merry, Loyd Price, Tom Gherughty, T.M. Herbert, etc. One day Warren Harding stuck his head in the door to talk to Loyd Price. Those days are gone, but were so wonderful for those lucky enough to be there. At that time, the Manager, Martha, had a tent just upstream from the dining room, I think the cook did too. Those were the best ones.
With modern texting and cell phones, you could run YMS from the Lodge front desk. The clerks could have a list of available guides, and just text them. Not ideal by a long shot, but it might be better than knocking on the door of a giant ice chest. Another possibility would be to move YMS to the Tioga Resort. Although it is just outside the Park, it is close enough. You could give beginning lessons at some of the Ellery Lake climbs.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jun 25, 2016 - 10:17pm PT
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*
Aspendough, Thanks for your memories...fun.... Martha is still the manager...She is in her late 80's.
Did you over lap with Grant Hiskes? His last summer was 75 or 76...?
When i worked at the Lodge, Lloyd Price had his Motor home at the lodge next to the wood shed and T.M. was still around.
Here is a picture of Martha as a young woman when she worked in Tuolumne..
The kitchen looked the same^ when i worked in the Meadows..many moons later..
I have the old side hall curtains ..i snagged them when they updated.
cool, I'm... Number *100....
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 26, 2016 - 11:22am PT
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Dictate globally....regret locally.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jun 26, 2016 - 11:40am PT
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That's an interesting change. Can't say that it was a truly needed facility. I don't recall ever buying gas there unless I needed to top off to get me to cheaper gas in Mammoth.
Escopeta posted Dictate globally....regret locally.
I can't believe the government shut down a government created monopoly on government land. So oppressive.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 26, 2016 - 11:58am PT
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Rejoice! I hear they are putting rails in the road so that people will get transported through Yosemite just like Jurassic Park complete with door locks to prevent anyone from exiting the vehicles.
You will be able to view Werner in his custom electric-fence enclosure. And throw him snacks you purchase at the vendor machine in the visitors center.
Watch out for the angry ranchers though, they roam freely.
I don't recall ever buying gas there unless I needed to top off to get me to cheaper gas in Mammoth
Anecdata!! If you don't need anything, no one needs anything.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Jun 26, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
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Unfortunate about the YMS getting thrown out "into the cold." The gas station loss is pretty minor (imho).
But, as the pic that Nita posted reminded me, I'll never get over the loss of the Toulumne Grill (converted into the High Country McDonalds).
Ultimately, none of these changes will significantly impact the ability to climb all of the great routes and formations. And, again imho, only a snobbish crank would dismiss the huge variety of Meadows climbing as "slabs."
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jun 26, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
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hey there say, thanks for sharing, all...
me, i don't know about any of this stuff... so it has been interesting
to read it all...
thanks again... :)
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Jun 26, 2016 - 11:47pm PT
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What was the cost of cleaning up the tanks and the plume?
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Jun 27, 2016 - 03:56am PT
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The elite don't pump gas.
So it's gone.
Park decisions seem to be principled on exclusivity of the masses, hence the ever decreasing camp spots and ever more expensive comfort accommodation.
Our fight for Camp 4 was a good one, at least.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 27, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
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Maybe it would be more honest to say we're sad on this day?
Majestic Yosemite Hotel? No more Tuolumne gas station? No more gear shopping in Tuolumne Meadows?
Not the kind of things that make me sad, but sorry if you're sad on this day. Lots of fun still to be had for us, even if that gear is suffering the indignity of being locked in an ice chest, and the gasoline has been banished to less beautiful locales.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Jun 27, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
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All of the TM leos now have to gas up in lee vining, almost every day. The time it takes to do so on taxpayer dollars and the environmental impact of all those extra drives is insane.
On the plus side I bet the leos are spending a lot more time dicking around on the internet in lee vining than they are patrolling....
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Jun 27, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
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Uhhh- I'm 36, far away from boomer class, the point still stands this damages the environment significantly.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jun 27, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
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Thank goodness they're clearing out all that sh#t from Tuolomne.
Based on the track record of the NPS, the concessioner will probably re-open the gas station as some gift shop that will make more money than the gas station did. And they'll open a video game arcade next door, all with the blessing of the NPS.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jun 27, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
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Dear World,
It is now officially Two Wallabies Meadows.
Best regards,
Siri
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jun 27, 2016 - 10:13pm PT
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You're missin' the point, here. . . the sad thing is the loss of a rare and precious lifestyle that existed in that space. I'd be surprised if even one of the posters on this thread cares a good goddamn about the gas station being gone.
It's the magic that will be missed!
Says it all. So, where's the new hang in the Meadows to take in for generations of memories, tradition, and decorum?
NPS is classless how this was handled, and they don't care whatsoever. if contrary, speak up.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 28, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
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ekat thanks.
I'm not sure that I am missing the point. This precious magical lifestyle that is so tragic to lose - I think the reason we feel it's so tragic to lose is because it was our lifestyle, they were our hangouts, they were our memories. It's a lifestyle that's ingrained in our identities, and the loss of those memories is a loss of identity and status for us, and we want it to mean more than (I think) it is, in hopes of retaining our identity and status.
But life goes on, it changes, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.
Sure our response to change is Messi, but don't cry for me Argentina! Yea I still haven't gotten over it, but give us time, we'll change too.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 28, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
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Having participated, to no avail, in the public input in the YNP planning process since the mid-1970's, I continue to maintain that all the relocation has done is increase vehicle traffic. I remember when Yosemite had service stations at Chiquapin, and three in the Valley, in addition to that at Tuolumne Meadows.
I particularly appreciated the Chinquapin station, because the day of the first moon landing, I had been climbing in the Valley in the morning, and was heading down to Fresno when my water pump went out just below Chinquapin. I got towed to the Valley, they repaired the water pump (all for about $20.00 - and on a Sunday), and made it back to see and hear the small step for a man. . .
In addition to the River campgrounds, we have lost campgrounds at Glacier Point, Smokey Jack, Harden Lake, Porcupine Creek and Tenaya Lake. None has been replaced. This increases day use driving.
The TRP and the MRP all purport to calculate a "carrying capacity" as if that capacity has no dependance on facilities for visitors. In my less-than-humble opinion, I find both master plans abominable in their innate contempt for those whose need to earn a living limits their ability to visit the Park.
John
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jun 28, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
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Sure, you've always been able to make your own off-road wilderness climbing experience in YNP.
But a world-class rock climbing and bouldering area like Tuolumne Meadows without a mountain shop and a supported guide service certainly seems like a way of hanging out an unwelcome mat. Mostly it's a way of breaking the historic continuity of new route development in the Meadows since the early 70s and before. It's a way of wiping the historical memory slate clean.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 28, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
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What a bunch of whining old has beens
I resent that characterization! Except in bouldering, I'm a "never was."
;-)
John
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Jun 28, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
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my sister and bro in-law peaked as real estate brokers north of LA back
when carter (volker) waged war against inflation with 19% interest rates.
they're still at it and know from transition, fluctuation and vicissitude.
she schooled me with the comment "value lacks meaning absent time."
i protested but she made her case with a peach. worthless when in
blossom, green, brown or gushy. rules the pallette in it's prime.
like a painting lacks meaning with height but no width.
as a dimension, you gotta give time it's due
~~~~
my favorite memory of the place was the completely transparent look yabo
shot me in his vulnerable glory, with underage lynn if not at that moment
on his arm, at least fresh off the other end of ... and packin' his rope
time passages
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OjaiClimber
Trad climber
Ojai, Ca
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Jun 28, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
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There's more bad news. A new company called Aeromark or something like that (arrow mark?) has now taken over the shuttle bus. It is no longer free. The driver attempted to charge me $4 cash (they can only take cash, you know how many hikers and climbers carry cash on them), to shuttle from Tuolunme campground to Tenaya Lake which is a joke. The bus runs on natural gas and that distance was about 6 miles so $4 is a 600% mark up?. I told her that the website stated that it was free as well as the front entrance AND the park map they hand out. She let me on for free but then I got the whole story about the new hidden fee. It IS posted on the new grill and hiker store on a piece of paper. So don't go up there any more thinking you'll get to take the shuttle back to your car unless you've got cold hard cash. She actually asked me to call my congressman or make up a Facebook petition to get this to stop. Anyone want to put in some leg work?
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jun 28, 2016 - 06:58pm PT
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Original post deleted for a better supertopo
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jun 28, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
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Having participated, to no avail, in the public input in the YNP planning process since the mid-1970's....
Remember the 1980 GMP? I bitterly fought with the NPS for any years.
The last time I went to Yosemite, the NPS was hap-hazardly bulldozing parking lots in the woods around the Lodge. It made me so sick.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jun 28, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
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First, they they abolished the coolest campground anywhere- Soda Springs Walk-in at TM. Then, they kick out YMS from the CCC Mess Hall (now, a boring visitor center). Next, they relegate YMS to an Ice Locker. Who knows what's next. Abolish "A" loop, remove the campground altogether, eliminate the store, close all areas to parking (except striped spots)? They fence off areas of Tenaya beach for "restoration" with ugly signs and fences. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for protection and restoration. But, Regulatory encroachment to the park by NPS and access thereof is a major threat - much more than the motorhomes.
I first stayed in TM in 1962, and the place is the same, except for the regulations and prohibitions put there by NPS, mostly unnecessarily. For years, Sharsmith was the only Ranger at TM. Now, we've gotta veritable swat team on standby. Send a message upward, Mead! Anyone get a ticket lately for a dog off leash when a Coyote ran past you?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jun 29, 2016 - 12:40am PT
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First, they they abolished the coolest campground anywhere- Soda Springs Walk-in at TM.
I second that. But didn't the Sierra Club sell (or donate?) that patch of land to the NPS? Obviously a big mistake since that eliminated any traction the Club might have had with the authorities.
You might add to the list of insults and injuries the closure of paid showers at the Lodge. 10 showers per day was polluting the Dana Fork? Sure!
All this stuff taken together sounds like it's all part of a general effort to keep people from hanging out in the Meadows and climbing.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 29, 2016 - 10:41am PT
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I knew I was forgetting at least one campground. Soda Springs Campground was wonderful, indeed. And yes, SLR, I remember the 1980 plan. I particularly remember how the public's responses clustered about equally around two different scenarios. One was to leave it the way it was, and one was to reduce existing development.
I thought this was an extraordinary rebuke of the "get development out of the park" crowd, because the entire planning process was not a random sample, but one selected in a way that it was strongly biased in favor of the "get development out" crowd. Even with that bias, they couldn't reach a consensus to that effect, or even a clear majority of already biased responders.
The NPS nonetheless arbitrarily chose the "get development out" alternative, and has steadfastly pursued policies to that effect ever since. I suspect the backlogged NPS maintenance budget would have much stronger public support if NPS policy recognized that ordinary working stiffs would like to enjoy "their" national parks, too.
John
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jun 29, 2016 - 11:22am PT
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The Sierra club bought the section (640 acres) at Soda Springs in 1912 and sold it to NPS in 1973. NPS closed the walk-in in 1974. The Soda Springs Campground started out as a haphazard drive in campground they converted to walk-in. Other Tioga Road campgrounds closed by YNP include Smokey Jack, Tenaya Lake (both ends had campgrounds), and the horse camp at Gaylor Creek. I think there may have been another campground that was near the North Dome trail, too. There was once a time when the TM campground was open right when the road opened, as long as you could get your car in.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 29, 2016 - 11:26am PT
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TMJessie, the closed campgournd near the North Dome trail was Porcupine Creek, on the old Tioga Road. In the 1960's, you could still drive on the old road to the campground. This not only provided a relatively lightly-used camping area, but also avoided the need to trudge up the old road for the final part back from the hikes to North Dome, Indian Rock and vicinity.
John
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 12, 2016 - 01:43pm PT
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Here's some shots of the closed and boarded up Mountain Shop and CMS taken this past weekend. The old gas station area does seem to be serving as a huge over-flow parking lot for the adjacent grill and store.
That sign on the board must be the reason there are huge crowds parked at the Lembert Dome lot now. When I went in the TM Store at 6 pm, the employees were advising tons of tourists to go to Lembert if they needed to find a BR. Why not an open-pit latrine in the TM Store parking lot?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jul 12, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
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Wouldn't it have been more logical, from an environmental perspective, to shut down the gas station, remove the pumps, dig out the gas tanks, and simply leave the building with the mountain store and YMS where they were? I can see keeping the nasty gasoline drippings out of the meadow aqua-fir Bruce is right on with this one. With modern cars/trucks/buses there's no need for a gas station in Tuolumne. Any modern car can easily drive from Lee Vining to Crane Flat and back on less than 1/2 a tank of gas. I drove from Lee Vining to the Los Gatos area last week with plenty left over.
* rant warning *
We should be pleased the NPS is doing what they can to preserve the Meadows habitat. That goes for Tenaya Lake as well.
Do we miss the Good Ole Days? Sure, I've got lots of memories of camping/dining/wenching in places where today you'd get at minimum a talk from a ranger.
So where DO they fuel the LEOs and shuttle buses? That would be a good question to put to the NPS. Just a guess: fuel tanks at Yosemite Lodge or White Wolf? A tanker truck coming up each night in the wee hours? Of course many of the shuttle buses go to the Valley anyway and can fill up there or at Crane Flat. By the way, the buses are propane. Somewhat cleaner for the environment that gasoline or diesel.
Porcupine Flat CG is still going. Or was when I went down there 2 years ago. Just as funky as ever. I'd recommend a car with more than a little ground clearance.
When I see the really beaten down volunteer trails in The Meadows I actually get angry. Right now YNP has a project going to erase most of the volunteer trails and replace them with a properly drained gravel path. If that keeps people away from the river banks so much the better. The trail appears to go near enough to the river for peoples' enjoyment and education. Perhaps some of the more timid Meadows creatures will return to delight us all.
A great deal of the trail damage outside the Meadows (and some in the Meadows) has been and is caused by riding and pack horses and mules. Let's get them out of the Meadows, Lyell Canyon, the High Sierra camps etc. With a possible exception for disabled persons.
To supply the camps and remove the garbage/human waste, I'd rather see a helicopter flight every week or so than the turds, piss and erosion from the packers.
I won't diss on the NPS or YNP ecologists and planners. They know a lot more than I do about balancing public use with conservation. As far as I'm concerned, a tilt towards the conservation side is past due.
As was mentioned in the thread about Valley traffic this is one of the big challenges of the 21st century. We should be happy there are people who care about these problems and are doing their best. If you talk to any of them, I've talked to a few, they will all tell you they'd love to do more to preserve the wilderness and allow "appropriate" use, including climbing. But they've got to deal with the realities of political and commercial pressure.
*end of rant*
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jul 12, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
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the sad thing is the loss of a rare and precious lifestyle that existed in that space.
We all have our memories of different places and times and people, but those places and people are in constant flux, and we can never really go back. I grew up in a small beach town, knew everybody and knew every back alley, and felt like a stranger going back a few years after college. It's like a parallel world- all the places look familiar, some familiar faces, but somehow everything is different and I don't belong. I ate at a tiny corner restaurant where as a kid my mom ran a bakery and I served customers and worked the cash register and cooked and washed dishes since I was 7 years old, where I fought with my brother in front of the display window while I was in charge after 10am because my mom was on a break after working since 3am, where I napped under the worktable held up by milk crates where my mom made cinnamon rolls. When I mention that my mom used to have a bakery here, that I spent much of my childhood working in this building, the girl serving food to me and my kids, she smiles quaintly with the plastic smile of service I remember so well when I was in her shoes.
Life moves on. So do we, whether we like it or not.
No harm in reminiscing, but no point in suffering. Embrace what is here, do your best to make your world the way you want it, and make peace with what is not.
As for the idyllic lifestyle livin' in a deluxe tent with easy access to food, drink, friends, and fun in a beautiful mountain setting- who wouldn't want that? If you have memories of it, consider yourself lucky and privileged that your life path brought you there at that place and time. And consider yourself lucky that this forum is such a magnet to find people who shared that experience with you.
I briefly worked for the National Biological Survey in the mid-90s on the Big Island of Hawaii, quickly forged great friendships there, and have no idea how to get in touch with the people. I don't even remember names of most of them to look them up.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 12, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
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I'd warrant that the decision to close the mountain shop and relocate the guide service was more political and economic than preservationist and environmental. Seems to me it was along the same lines as eliminating pay showers at the TM Lodge: a way to prevent people hanging out for over-extended periods in the Meadows and putting up new routes. Like I said before: kill the culture and the "problem" (i.e. climbers and climbing) will be easier to manage, control and ultimately eliminate.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jul 12, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
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It was fun
Cars in the meadow was fun too
What those wize old dadz told Solomon
This too will pass.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 13, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
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I don't think that installing a sign at the entrance to the Lodge Parking Lot stating that no one but Lodge guests are allowed to park within 500 ft of the Lodge was based on ecological considerations either. That way climbing bums wouldn't be able to park in the lot and hang out in the Lodge at night reading books in front of the fire, at least not without trudging 500 ft first. Also, much more difficult for a long-time resident bum without a car to cop a free shower at the Lodge; hence, cutting down on the transient climber "problem".
Interesting how ecological pretexts are always used as a way of specifically harassing climbers as an "undesirable" group in the Meadows. However, I do know for a fact that certain members of the Sierra Club have been howling to NPS about the lack of showers at the Lodge when they've returned from Club-sponsored hikes and been forced to drive to Lee Vining to obtain showers before driving back down to the Bay and L.A. Trouble with a lot of the rules designed to hassle climbing bums is that they also catch other big fish in their nets, big fish with money who complain loud and long to the authorities.
It's painfully obvious that a world-class climbing area like T. Meadows deserves a world-class guide service and a climbing store stocked with chalk, shoes, ropes and local guidebooks to serve as a center for the sport. It should be easy enough to do that without damaging the fragile TM environment if a serious effort was made.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 13, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
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Bruce, you aren't the only one with that impression. As Fred points out, the NPS planners find themselves between impossible goals, and I understand they have political and practical limits on what they can do. I just wish their default position would differ from making things as inconvenient for campers - including, but not limited to, climbers - as possible. It also seems, always, to coincide with decisions that make staying with the concessionaire more attractive, relative to camping.
I don't like feeling like I subscribe to a conspiracy theory, but the decisions the Park planners made - and continue to make - don't seem to hurt the concessionaire and the gentry nearly as much as they hurt the ordinary working stiffs with limited vacation time.
John
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 13, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
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But just try and go into the Meadows and guide outside the umbrella of the NPS and the concession. You're immediately infringing on the concession's monopoly and are "breaking the law". People certainly do do it, but the rules of supply-and-demand free-market capitalism are not allowed to operate within a National Park. A guide service like YMS certainly does a lot of good introducing people to climbing in Yosemite. Yeah, it's commercial, but many people go on to climb on their own after being introduced to the sport at YMS.
John, I've never known it to fail that an ecological pretext is always given by the authorities for limiting or restricting climbing activities. It's like they need to find an excuse that harmonizes with the environmental ethic to do what they want to do anyway. Couldn't they be more inventive?
I did notice this weekend that the CMS logo and sign seems to have been removed from the ice machine next to the grill. Does that mean anything? Who knows!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 13, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
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Well put NutAgain, life goes on. There is a bright side to what is happening in the Meadow, maybe the NPS has enough foresight to stop the meadow from going the way of the valley.
Sierra clubbers going to Lee vining to shower just to drive to the Bay Area is hilarious.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 13, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
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Back in the day, climbers could more or less move into TM for the summer, and it sometimes meant that fewer people just passing through, once or twice in a lifetime, could find places to car camp. The current changes, whatever the motivation, discourage this sort of permanent summer residency. This is painful for those who enjoyed that lifestyle, but as the number of climbers continued to grow, I can see why this was one of the end results.
Having spent five summers at TM (1968-72) I could see a big change, even in that short span of years. In '68 it was still more or less a well kept secret, but by '72 it had become "the place to be" during the summer. If you look at the original "Eleven Domes" article, a handful of guys, Kamps, Higgins, etc. mostly had the place to themselves.
Some of the tactical decisions I can object to on certain grounds, but the basic idea of not letting TM become another Yosemite Valley, I can understand that.
An aviation pioneer in China is developing a drone where you just step inside, have GOOGLE MAPS, and it takes you where you need to go. Maybe in future, we can rent a drone, program in, for example, "The Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne" spend a day climbing, and come home. Times change.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 14, 2016 - 12:20am PT
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I'm sure it'll always be possible to move into the Meadows and spend the whole summer climbing there. It just won't be as convenient and you'll have to work at it. But you can't deny that all these new changes in the Meadows are part of an overt attempt to discourage climbing and climbers from staying in the Park. In fact, the authorities have always despised the idea of long-term resident local climbers to a degree. If you become too high-profile, they'll figure out a way to boot you. The war on the climbing life-style has been going on a long, long time and won't be ending any time soon I'd guess.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Jul 14, 2016 - 07:34am PT
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I doubt the NPS is making these or any other decisions based on some nefarious desire to crush the climber lifestyle. I'm glad people have great memories relating to the store but I support getting as much infrastructure out of TM as possible.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 14, 2016 - 01:43pm PT
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath: Yosemite NP is a little village. There are lists of names and plenty of scores to settle. Climbers and the climber lifestyle have not been especially popular with NPS and the concession for a long, long time. When it comes time to make a decision, the well being of climbers and climbing is usually not factored in. In fact, quite the opposite . . .
Here's a recent take on the Dark Side of the YNP Planning Process:
http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/3005112
Of course, I'm not worried about walking 500 to the Lodge to read paperbacks at night! I was just trying to indicate how petty and vindictive the whole process is. Dark Passages!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 15, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
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Bump-o-lo!
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Sad day bump
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The Wolf
Trad climber
Martinez, CA
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I was one of the clients CF. You gave me my first lesson, Bruce Brossman my second and Don Reid my third.... A summer I will never forget.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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NPS in Zion decided to go with solar toilets at the end of the Kolob Fingers road.
Contractor told them that it was only for occasional use and could not handle the capacity that demand at that location would incur.
Sure enough, $180,000.00+ tax dollars literally in the crapper.
We need more NPS accountability. You can bet that somebody in the Air Force who was supposed to tell the FBI about that Texan's (I like that they are using his name as little as possible) domestic abuse conviction is going to get the boot.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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November 2017
More than sad. The end of an era. The end......
I went back this spring/summer to try and recapture the past years I have lived and worked in Tioga Pass/Tuolumne. It was not happening. At all. I bandit camped, stayed in Lee Vining, went to the Mobile and danced. Thank God the Whoa Nellie is still there. But the feeling was tilted, unsettled. Like hiking up and down talus, shifting. The steady spot was gone.
The Meadows and Tioga Pass Resort were the gathering places. Funny how two parking lots and several wooden benches were the hub of activity, friendships, folly and spur of the moment, random, outrageous fun.
Of course, life is never constant. Never. Treasuring my fav memories and knowing something new will evolve. lynnie
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Meeting Lynne and Dave Yerian at TPR a couple years ago was one of those good times and a lasting memory.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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MH2, that's what I'm talking about! Now TPR is gone as well as the Tuolumne Mountaineering School/Store.
Ekat, not sure what you mean?
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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I'm old enough to remember when Tuolumne Meadows got its own climbing shop. Seemed like it put the place on the map as a legitimate rocking climbing venue. I imagine TPR will be back in 2019 though. Heck I can remember stopping in there with my late father after fishing on Saddleback Lake in 1962. You're right, Lynne, about TPR and the Mountain School being the two hubs of social activity in the Meadows for many, many years. The Lembert Dome Parking Lot just doesn't have the same "feel".
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Inner City
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Ah but the wonderful domes are still there....
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Curry Management and the NPS have wanted to evict the climbing scene and culture from the Meadows as far back as I can remember. But it was hard to do as long as the guide service and the mountain store were entrenched there. This environmental hokum has provided them with the tools to do exactly what they wanted to do as far back as the climbers' camp in Soda Spring in 1973-74. If the environmental argument really made sense, why not dig up the tanks and remove the pumps in front of the gas station and let the mountain school and shop remain at the same location? Or move the YMS back to where it used to be in the Visitor Center? Used to be movies and slide shows there at night if I recall. More like an attempt to evict the lingering remains Berkeley and the Haight from the Park permanently. Just hoping that a restored and revived TPR opens outside the Park in 2019. That would shift the focus and fire-proof the culture from extermination.
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Loyd
Big Wall climber
Roseburg, OR
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Nov 15, 2017 - 07:57am PT
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I remember when we opened the first YMS Mt. shop and Guide service in TM at the TM lodge in a tent. The Shop was in the front and the 5 Guides lived in the back. What a great time that was in TM
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Jan 29, 2018 - 01:41pm PT
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I think there are people too who visit the Meadows and regard the roped climbers they see on Stately Pleasure Dome as an affront to the "wilderness character" of the Tuolumne high country. They just complain and want less people on the rocks as if their presence there damages the cliffs. I've talked to the former mayor of Belmont and she's implored me not to climb on the rocks and ruin them. There must be a sizeable segment of the environmental community that just want less people climbing on the rocks period. If there is no YMS and no Mountain Shop that will be a way to reduce the number of climbers in the Park. This is just kind of funny where the tour buses are prowling in numbers along the Tioga Pass Road and there's a big lodge. Funny how climbers are always classified as a "problem" just because they are there.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 29, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
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In fairness to the planners, I can see what their motive was, even if many of us don't agree with how they did it. Yosemite Valley is becoming more and more crowded, traffic ridden, year by year. By making TM less friendly to climbers and tourists, they are trying to keep the crowds from similarly overwhelming that area.
I recall making trips on the old Tioga Road back in the late 50's, I was a little kid. It was an adventure. I also remember when they opened the new road, how it changed everything, some of the old timers decried that.
Imagine the huge traffic jams that they have in Yosemite Valley up in the Meadows, it is painful to think about.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Jan 29, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
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Population.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Formerly TMJesse
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Jan 29, 2018 - 10:18pm PT
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Yosemite reminds me of a huge stadium with only 50 seats. Most of the park is totally empty of any people year after year. NPS has whittled away at the campgrounds along the Tioga Road, like Smokey Jack, both Tenaya Lake campgrounds (east and west), Soda Springs, Gaylor Creek, and have under utilized plenty of space available for the American public - Porcupine Flat comes to mind. What are there, 29 sites or something? Meanwhile an endless forest behind the campground is void of anyone, ever. In terms of "footprint," the Tioga Road is like a piece of dental floss stretched across your living room!
I have hiked nearly every trail in the park, and many canyons and ridges from corner to corner. The place is mostly 100% deserted except for a handful of fifty-cent-piece sized places on the 30" x 30" park topo map. The problem of over crowding is lack of facilities. Yosemite is festooned with many unnamed valleys, meadows, lakes, walls and summits that never see but an occasional traveler, if ever. I've hiked for days many times and never met anyone else or saw even a single footprint. And, I was looking.
Zinke and fellow goons what to keep people out to make us unconnected so we don't care anymore. Removing the YMS mountaineering school from TM fits perfectly. Fossil Climber and Gerughty helped connect me forever. Don't fall for it; stay connected and pass it on.
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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Jan 29, 2018 - 10:44pm PT
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EKat
Your last trip was 2008FL?
So psyched I was there to meet you right place right time
Sorry for drift, good reading here.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Jan 29, 2018 - 10:49pm PT
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Truly, what they objected to (and hate and fear the most) is any community developing that might oppose their power. One power always hates another power.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jan 29, 2018 - 11:00pm PT
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Population growth does not explain the increase in park visitors
The population of the USA was about 180 million in 1960. Today it is 325 million. We are currently seeing our lowest growth rate in decades, less than 1% a year. Immigration is the only thing that gives us a positive rate of growth. If you think crowds in the parks is a problem, just wait until a majority of the population is retired and wanting a check.
I think we can agree that the typical park visitor is fairly WASPy. Whites have dropped from 80% of the population in 1960, to about 60% now. Whites are reproducing more slowly than most minorities. Do you see that reflected in park visitors? not really.
Visits to Yosemite jumped almost 20% between 2015 and 2016. The parks could have absorbed the increase in visitors if the increase was limited to population growth. Fact is, a larger percentage of the population wants to visit parks, and has the means to do it. Although overall visitation has risen, per capita visitation has dropped 20% over the last 20 years. People that go to parks are going more often, not just once a year.
Gas prices have a big impact on the number of visitors. The NPS also did a lot of targeted social media campaigns that apparently had some effect. The parks are being loved to death
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Jan 30, 2018 - 12:37pm PT
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Although overall visitation has risen, per capita visitation has dropped 20% over the last 20 years. People that go to parks are going more often, not just once a year.
In other words, Jon Beck, there is a upper middle class largely white user group that is going to visit Yosemite a larger number of times per annum than other user groups? Repeat offenders clogging the place up?
So, close the Mountain Shop and YMS and those kind of repeat offenders will stay away? That does sound like the logic behind the subtext.
It is true that back in my late parents' day in the 50s and 60s people who worked in factories or belonged to unions had an allocated 2-week vacation every year, usually in late August or around the 4th of July when they all packed into Yosemite at once. Now the migrations up there are more heavy 24/7 365 days per annum. I'm going to take a drive up to the Valley tomorrow mid-week, mid-winter and I bet I'll be able to drive around the Valley and not encounter a traffic jam. But this is late January afterall.
So, they really are attacking the itinerant week-end / seasonal climber recreation user group that comes up there and people-pollutes the cliffs, which is offensive to certain Nazi Nazi bigots who are obviously pushing the current agenda? As usual, they're singling out climbers as a group to pick on. I thought the Access Fund fought that kind of unconstitutional discrimination?
I think someone should crunch the numbers and compare the number of Meadows first ascents in, say, 1975, 1985, 1995, 2005 with the number of FAs today. Clint or Ed Hartouni must know? Less FAs. Less climbers. Less visitation. Tuolumne really needs an up-to-date climbing guide book. Charlie's bouldering guide has put the place on the map again.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I don't have the recent history of FAs in TM, I'm sorta consumed with that climbing area just down the Tenaya Canyon at the moment.
As far as I know, a new guide for TM is being worked on, and I'm not involved.
The TM camp ground is the largest in the NPS system.
Porcupine Flat has over 60 sites (but that is from memory), first come first serve.
But it is also true that the place is crowded, and that includes the crowds of climbers which has had me seeking other high Sierra venues for similar types of climbing.
On another note, my recent forays onto the JMT and other trails in the vicinity of TM revealed miles of potential climbing within a day's hike of the Meadows. The adventure climbing possibilities are there for those who want to make the effort.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Formerly TMJesse
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Chances are pretty good that one would never encounter another human anywhere in these areas of northern Yosemite
except for maybe here, Rodgers Lake
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Chances are pretty good that one would never another single human anywhere in these areas of northern Yosemite
Sure, I know of one area in particular only 5 miles from the Tioga Road near Cathedral Creek that has tons of spectacular single pitch cracks plus larger multi pitch routes.
But as you say, a 5-mile hike is a long, long way for weekenders.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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I don't have the recent history of FAs in TM
I don't know either, Ed, but would think that the 70s and 80s clear down to the early 90s were the most prolific FA decades. After that era, I would think that more and more boulder problems, many of high standard and quality, were turned out.
BITD it seemed like the Rescue Team members turned out a lot of Tuolumne FAs, but so did the YMS guides. There was even a sort of rivalry between the two groups.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Too Many Is Too Much
A single day in the meadows is worth a thousand days at home.
Everyone seems to know this from Lembert to Fairview Dome.
They come to stare at the cataracts and enjoy the Tuolumne’s foam.
They’re packed in the campgrounds like sardines, like cars in the City of Rome.
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