Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 46 of total 46 in this topic |
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 17, 2016 - 08:06am PT
|
I'm thinking this looks perfect for my kids and me:
http://www.seaeagle.com/ExplorerKayaks/420X
Easily packable in a car, can hike it in somewhere in a pinch for a day trip, but too big for backpacking. Plenty sturdy for any rivers I'd be willing to run with my kids. Maybe nice for a few days out and about.
Any other suggestions for a comparable raft? I was thinking of Alpacka as a lighter alternative but ideally I want something we can all share and they are basically adult size now. Plus each individual Alpacka is in the same price range as this. This Sea Eagle 420x would all 3 of us plus some gear (850 pound capacity). If the kids are forced to paddle the entire way it might limit what we'll do. But I'm open to the idea of 2 separate rafts to perhaps increase a safety margin or for disaster recovery, to spread the weight for a hike-in approach, etc.
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:32am PT
|
You might want to look into inflatable kayaks from Advanced Elements, or AIRE.
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:32am PT
|
My dad's had a Klepper foldable kayak for years.Its been all around the world and never failed him.
Lots of $$$ though.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:40am PT
|
Moosie, how does self-bailing work in white water, or any water? I've had self-bailing
racing sailboats but you had to be going better than a few knots.
|
|
thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:41am PT
|
The NRS Outlaws are nice and sturdy, as are the older Bandits. I'd go for one of those if in the market.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:46am PT
|
Just went through this last year and picked a great choice that has gone many places with me.
I do think that Sea Eagle is a very good choice. However...
I went with Gumotex. (actually I bought the US importer branded (Innova)) For the price they make the best in my opinion. There was another euro manufaturer that is insanely expensive but is definitely the best. Cant remember the name.
I snagged an amazing deal on an older version of the SOLAR410. Have used it in the Sierra, Tahoe Truckee and best of all it fit as a carryon for my Last trip to Puerto Rico where I used it for several days island hopping;. Very durable handled some Coral rubs on a surfbreak and other stuff.
Do NOT consider Advanced Elements as they use a fabric overskin that takes time to dry and is not as durable long term. NRS and Air seems quite excellent but a bit heavy and not usable as a carryon for travel.
Take a look at the twist2 nitrilon the solar410 and the new seawave from gumotex. Depending on size and if self bailing is important to you.
There are various online UK distributors that ship to the USA quite easily.
http://www.gumotex.co.uk/inflatable-boats
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:54am PT
|
Self bailing means there are holes in the bottom
In my world bailing means 'getting the phooking water OUT' of the boat!
BwaHaHaHa. ;-)
|
|
SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:56am PT
|
We have AIRE Lynx inflatable kayaks. Really LOVE! So much that I rarely use my hard kayak at all anymore.
We originally got it for easy transport on a sailboat but find using it on rivers and streams now too.
It's bomber.
Susan
|
|
guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:25am PT
|
Innova made great boats but sadly Tim Rosenhand, a very dear friend and owner of Innova passed away last Fall and the company is no longer.
|
|
SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:43am PT
|
NRS website has me drooling...
HaHa! Somebody drank the kool-aid!!!!
If you're going to get into pack rafting go here first
http://www.jpwinc.com
Susan
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
|
If doing Whitewater you will want self bailing. I'd also suggest a model that has a cover option. I've done some class 2 on mine(does not have either feature) and from time to time I have to pull over and dump it.. annoying. Would be basically useless in much rougher stuff.
If you decide to go with the Aire or NRS style inflatable instead of the newer very high pressure S.U.P. tech SEA EAGLE type stuff.. then go with GUMOTEX instead.
Similar in design but better in execution. Trust me.
Sorry to hear he was a friend of yours Guido. Hell of a great company and boats he supplied.
Hey Moosedrool I was just kayaking at Utica last week! Love that place.
|
|
Torv
Mountain climber
Fairbanks, AK
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
|
I use the Tandom Tributary Tomcat and really like it. Usually just me in it though. I've used it on long trips, but never in whitewater. Handles great, extremely stable, not great in the wind, like most inflatables. Weights ~50 pounds so I can get it around pretty easy.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
|
HA! Fair enough Moose. Have only done a bit of bouldering in Utica..But saw some very nice looking small stuff to climb.
Another Link for Gumotex and Grabner (the other company I couldnt think of earlier)
http://www.solelymarine.com/inflatable-boats-1-c.asp
|
|
ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
|
what exactly is the appeal? cost? portability?
|
|
guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
|
Innova Safari are the gem! Self bailing, rugged and with a slip in keel for tracking and COMFORTABLE on the back and legs.
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
|
So how do the inflatables hold up in real whitewater? Around here they'd last about 5 minutes since ever thing is so rocky and hence sharp. I've carved gashes through high-end plastic boats.
Do other ww areas really just have smoother rocks or do you generally just have to avoid them??
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
|
Hyside paddilac. Can't get better.
It'll cost you. Once in your whole life.
|
|
LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
|
NutAgain.. you should call me up and we can talk rafts, inflatables etc..
NO to the Alpacka for what you want to do. YES to a selfbailing 16 ft raft but the cost is big ...6k with all the trims approximately. The guys from the northwest know their rafts. The thing about the raft is you need a reliable crew ready to get out there. An oar rig with your kids is a great idea. The more costly IK is the one you can take on Class V ,and worth the change. .. doubt you are going there although Steve has told me stories ....In any case a self bailer is best, IK or raft.
FYI those kids are only going to get bigger by the minute!
Quite frankly, a canoe will do very well if you know how to paddle (I'm from the midwest where a canoe goes in class v whitewater and in open ocean).
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
|
Wonder how they'd do on 16' breaking waves? ;-)
I'm at the point where Guido's Zodiac looks like the ticket.
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:27pm PT
|
Sounds like you want a 12' boat.
Check this one out.
https://hyside.com/product/outfitter-12-0/
I can get this in the trunk of my VW Jetta. You can R2, crew 6, overnight/weekend camp with dry bags, and put a small frame on it.
For longevity, Hypalon is the way to go.
|
|
LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
|
Accept that you cannot do all those things listed in one boat. An IK will do two of the four. However.... you could do all those things with a paddle board but don't...
Nice idea that little 12 footer
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2016 - 10:34am PT
|
Mark Force, after spending hours yesterday reading through forums, scourig websites to figure out the specs of different products, I came to the conclusion that the Hyside Outfitter 12.0 (not the hotdog bun) is what I'm looking for ;)
Thanks for the packing beta which I found nowhere else including on rafting forums:
I can get this in the trunk of my VW Jetta
Slightly tempted to stay with the smaller/funner size MiniMax, but camping trips call for just a little more space. I saw a vid of a guy R1'ing on the MiniMax:
http://vimeo.com/160145449
I checked around losangeles Craigslist, they don't have jack. Probably better in Oregon, Idaho, or even SF Bay. Will keep my eye on SF Bay.
Here's what not to do in a small inflatable:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Here shows a pretty good idea of what you can do,:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
|
|
|
Jun 18, 2016 - 10:42am PT
|
When evaluating small boats, think along the lines of sleeping bags and how you really need a quiver of bags for different conditions. Impossible for one bag to suffice for all conditions.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2016 - 10:46am PT
|
Guido, tHe problem is when I need a bigger sleeping bag, I just shiver. And that's because I won't spend a few hundred bucks.
So when I get a boat, it's going to be the only boat for a while. If we get out enough this summer on a boat, and kids still like it, I can see fattening the quiver with a few duckies.
But that might have to wait until I commit to a larger adventure-mobile, which might be within the next year or a few years depending on how long my wife's old car lasts.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jun 18, 2016 - 10:50am PT
|
Inflatable Kayak recommendations?
I recommend one that floats ......
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2016 - 11:17am PT
|
With subtitles, just for you smoking duck who discusses flotation:
Start at 2:12 if you have a short attention span
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
|
Jun 18, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
|
RUBBER DUCK, Ha, EEY, Eey, EEY, THAT WAS FUN ee er than Quack!
I had a Klepper for years, that a pals' dad had , had,
and only used a handful of times,
We kept it 1/2 constructed,
in 2 sections, hanging keel up like a wooden sculpture of a rib cage it cast some weird shadows.
The 2 parts and the Hypalon deck were then ready at a moments notice, as releases were not publicized and about an hours drive to the top(best) put in.
EDIT: 0 Man ! .. .. .. Batrock' ! Says in a post below,
IF IT FLYS OR FLOATS OR FVCKS! IT IS ALWAYS CHEAPER TO RENT,!
I'd forgotten that !
Great stuff on float ing - from my set!
No sir, I'm not done yet
I almost get up and quit, when the mnt reject sucks me in,
Then I come back,
To the Top'o of the Topo and find that while I've left
the theater of the west,
I love you guys the best.
All hail the captains of their boats
You all rock, and float so far above
The morass of stupid typical climber folk
A refreshing tonic
Thanks
And happy Father's Day to all
& too to all the nutz
NUT. . . .
|
|
Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
|
|
|
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
|
Rafts are one of those high expense low use items. I have had several over the years and unless you live close to a river it doesnt get used as much as you would like but it's nice to have when you can get to the river. Rowing on a river is not like rowing on a lake, you need to watch your down stream oar, backstroke is your power stroke, for some reason folks new to rowing have a hard time getting that concept and always try and forward row or portagee through stuff, always face your danger so you can back away from it. I can take you out and show you the basics if you do decide to pull the plug, I taught in a guide school back in the 80's and would be more than happy to help out.
But....like the saying goes, if it flys, floats or fu#k$, it's cheaper to rent. ;)
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
|
Batrock, pretty classic!
You gave me serious pause though... I checked the cost of renting a comparable raft for Kern, American, Umpqua/Rogue, Salmon....
Looks like ~25 days of per-day rental rates before break-even. Even if I only make it out 7 days per year, still looking at a 4 year ROI.
But the rental option might save the headaches of 303 & storage, transporting from home base to the river, save the car space with paddles and PFDs etc, and probably include some logistical help with car shuttles...
And I can still get it in my Prius for a cruise down the Owens River or the sloughs by Don Edward Wildlife Sanctuary in SF Bay, and a bazillion points between. Can't argue with that kind of rationalizing. I'm sold.
|
|
Bargainhunter
climber
|
|
|
Jun 18, 2016 - 11:17pm PT
|
I'd go with an AIRE kayak. I've owned 3. Very rugged for long white water trips and hauling crap. Your life may depend on their quality. Bombproof solid.
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
Jun 19, 2016 - 01:09am PT
|
try before you buy, look at what the commercial people use in your area and go with that,
you can do class 4 in an IK but your luggage might end up in the eddy,
flat water? pack the ice chest.
buying a used IK is another option,
AIRE is good, i believe they use those to send noobs down Cache Creek which has sharp rocks and they last forever,
|
|
perswig
climber
|
|
|
Jun 19, 2016 - 02:40am PT
|
(I'm from the midwest where a canoe goes in class v whitewater and in open ocean).
Anyone paddling from the Midwest to the open ocean gets my respect.
Lewis and Clark stuff.
Dale
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Jun 19, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
|
This is pretty good, I just use it on the Celtic Sea though, no whitewater.
|
|
Gal
Trad climber
going big air to fakie
|
|
|
Jun 19, 2016 - 02:01pm PT
|
NRS Tributary Tomcat. I'm a partner in a kayak company, this is what we use, very excellent product.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2016 - 11:49am PT
|
Thanks Gal - I pulled the trigger on a Tributary Tomcat Solo and a Tandem- found great discounts with some Internet spelunking.
I will probably get much more frequent use out of that combo than a bigger raft- faster setup, more portable for more places. I tried first for a bigger raft 12.0 Outfitter from Hyside but neither they nor any distributors have any in stock. Maybe I'll put in an order in the fall for next season :)
I'll use Batrock's advice to rent something bigger when I'm up in Oregon later this summer.
If the duckies get here in time their first use will be at Carpinteria Beach in a few weeks.
Thank you all for perspectives and input- helped me a lot, including info that I couldn't find in rafting forums.
|
|
Phil_B
Social climber
CHC, en zed
|
|
|
Jun 20, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
|
Cool. In case you get around to wanting to try some more whitewater, here's a guide to many of CA's boatable rivers:
http://cacreeks.com
And note that they run Class V in their IKs!
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
|
Phil_B with the shizzle hookup! That site is the motherload of info dude- so many things not on my radar.
|
|
LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
|
|
|
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
|
I have just one question for you NutAgain... have you ever rafted or kayaked before this boat? ?? Those tomcats are a watery hell in open water. fyi
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
|
I'm pretty close to a whitewater n00b, but I've done it enough to know I love it. The only unguided whitewater I've done is Cache Creek a handful of times, and felt confident rescuing my friends that got high-sided or taco'd around rocks, stuck in tree branches, etc. Did some fast flat water in Knight's Ferry area in a canoe a few times, rescued a kid who got pinned underwater when his canoe flipped in the tree branches. Did some pretty rough spots through Arroyo Seco (near Soledad) with inner tubes. Canoed around the coast guard island in Oakland Harbor from Jack London Square dealing with wind swells and tidal changes, similar stuff in Morro Bay, stuff like that.
The kids and I did a 3 or 4 day trip down the Rogue River with guides a few years ago. Boring sitting on the paddle boat, fun in the duckies going through all but the biggest rapids. Really fun to stand up in them and surf down the easy ripple rapids. I rowed the big raft with all the bags (oar and frame setup) for a chunk of the time just to get familiar with that skill, but I basically know nothing about that. I did some guided Class IV paddle trip a bazillion years ago, maybe somewhere on the American.
That's about it, except I grew up boogie boarding and surfing, getting pounded in winter waves. One day during college I paddled my boogie board from Black's Beach straight across the bay to La Jolla Cove and back, maybe close to a couple of miles each way.
I intend to be very cautious in what stuff I do with the kids because I still don't know what I don't know, and especially in the kayak setup it has to be at a level that the kids can handle it without me doing it for them. I will be looking for other folks to have adventures with and if I'm on my own with the kids I will keep it on the super mellow side.
|
|
Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
|
|
|
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:08pm PT
|
[quote]I'm pretty close to a whitewater n00b, but I've done it enough to know I love it. The only unguided whitewater I've done is Cache Creek a handful of times, and felt confident rescuing my friends that got high-sided or taco'd around rocks, stuck in tree branches, etc. Did some fast flat water in Knight's Ferry area in a canoe a few times, rescued a kid who got pinned underwater when his canoe flipped in the tree branches. Did some pretty rough spots through Arroyo Seco (near Soledad) with inner tubes. Canoed around the coast guard island in Oakland Harbor from Jack London Square dealing with wind swells and tidal changes, similar stuff in Morro Bay, stuff like that./quote]
You're so Fukien gonna die.
This is a formal intervention. I've got a new used 10' bucket boat. Come play
|
|
| Messages 1 - 46 of total 46 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Playing in small ocean waves and ferrying out to snorkel in the kelp beds near Carpinteria Beach (I dislike that campground immensely, but its an extended family compromise)
Let us know!