Discussion Topic |
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 2, 2016 - 11:05am PT
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Mine is one that I did yesterday, the Tourist Route in the Black Canyon. Long (starts at the bottom), continuous at the grade, care needed in route finding, loose rock, and a bit of runout climbing to add spice to the sauce. No...it's not one of those routes you repeat every season.
Numbers don't always tell the whole story.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Nutcracker. What could be more real than waiting at a belay for three hours with no beer?
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Mechanic's Route, 5.8, 1937, manilla rope, pre climbing shoes and harness. Respect!
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Magnolia?
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Forbidden Corner Yamnuska
Oh wait it is now called 5.9
Any Cdn Rockies alpine route rated 5.8 is always full of excitement.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Back in the late 1950s I really enjoyed climbing the Direct Jensen Ridge on Symmetry Spire (Tetons). I think I did it three or four times, doing the "crux" several different ways. It made for a great day's adventure! Back then it was rated 5.9, but that's close enough.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Word has it that Herb Laeger originally rated Igor Unchained at the Needles at 5.8, though it's considered stout for 5.9 nowadays.
+ 1 the Mechanics Route. Dick Jones was the man.
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FTOR
Sport climber
CA
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even bachar seemed impressed when i told him i soloed great pumpkin. fairview.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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John - I loved the Jensen Direct and enjoyed even more an afternoon up there climbing the Gill Route on Baxter's Lost Pinnacle. Maybe that was also 5.9.
I'm with Walleye on Braille Book
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Agree about Mechanic's Route. Steep and intimidating now, it's hard to imagine doing the first ascent in tennis shoes with soft iron and manila ropes. The first free ascent of Higher Spire, done during WWII, was a stout effort rated 5.8, too, but the climbers already knew the route, and rockfall has made the route harder now. Peter Pan was originally rated 5.8, and the third pitch was certainly real climbing (and a real sandbag at 5.8) to me. I have yet to climb Arrowhead Arete, but doing it free on the first ascent strikes me as real climbing, too.
John
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Redwood City
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x2 for Clyde Minaret , that's one tough 5.8 ....
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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At this point in my career, all 5.8's are real climbing.
There are so many stellar 5.8's in the Gunks---with very real climbing---I wouldn't know where to begin. But of course none of these are of any length.
About forty years ago I did the Arrowhead Arete in Yosemite; I remember it as a pretty good 5.8.
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snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
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selaginella at the open books, yose
and although 5.9, warpy moople in the sandias
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Modern Times at the Gunks. God damn...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2016 - 11:48am PT
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I agree with rgold....when it comes to shorter routes the Gunks has more "real climbing" 5.8's that anywhere else in the US.
But I'm not necessairly talking about the grade, keep in mind the total experience .
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Yeah I was going to say magnolia TP @Granite mtn, as well.....
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Jefe wrote:
Magnolia?
I was thinking that when I saw the thread title.
Great minds... :-)
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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As far as shorties go I think the 5.8 next to double-cross in Joshua Tree might qualify. I can't remember the name right now, always thought it was better than double cross
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Magnolia is the busines. Beware Granite Mountain 5.8+!
Doing Green Savior on GM with the variations - Direct Start and a Crisco Way - is rated 5.8 but you'll feel like you earned it when you get to the top!
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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I was gonna put West Buttress Musembeah, which I swear was rated 5.8 when I did it Mike P. but now I see it's rated 10-.
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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(long) NE Buttress of Pingora in the Winds is a quality long route at the grade.
(multi) Patent Pending and Bon Homme Variation at Deto are solid shorter 5.8s.
(single) Needles Eye at Custer State Park is about as "real" as it gets for the grade.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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The Swallow on Tqhquitz Rock, @ 800' high, which has variations of a spicy nature that RR and Chuck Wilts likely avoided in '62.
And a super-charged party can always choose to follow The Gulp, at a stiffer standard.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Modern Times at the Gunks. God damn...
Indeed. Also known as the "Divorce route" when burly boyfriends/husbands take their unsuspecting SO's on this "juggy 5.8" and find they don't know how to use prussics...
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JohnnyG
climber
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Not sure what you mean by "real" but it looks like a lot of folks are interpreting this as hard for the grade (or sandbagged)
I think you mean that you need to be an experienced/solid/"real" climber to do it with style and safety.
That 5.8 dihedral pitch partway up the casual route comes to mind. Every single move feels like 5.8. Full value.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Any 5.8 at Devils Tower. Where each move can be 5.8, and the rating doesn't go up since 'no single move' is harder than 5.8.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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when it is a blank slab and you are already 120 feet run out with no drill.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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I'll have to 2nd the classic route on Pingora, as a fine 5.8. At least it is in a great setting!
For shorter routes which are pretty stout in my area; I'll nominate Pine Tree Eliminate, at Cathedral Ledge, in NH.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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I always thought the 2nd pitch of Freerider/Salathe' Wall was pretty rough for 5.8, particularly if your biggest piece is an old style rigid stem 2.5 Friend and you're dragging the rest of the rack and two extra ropes because 5.8 is 'easy' and you want to fix to the top of the 4th pitch before dark. That last 12 feet of that pitch was pretty special, as I recall.
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Cassius
climber
Berkeley, CA
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North Face of Dog Dome. An obscure-ish little gem in the Meadows. A little offwidth, a little chimney, a little lake. What's not to like?
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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I totally got lost on the Tourist Route with Clean Dan Grandusky back in the early 1990's and had to bail from about halfway up. I don't think that we were ever on route and never did figure out where it went.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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The black line MODERN TIMES DIRECT .
There is an independent start to the 1st pitch,(5.7+ R) that is much better than any of the other starts,
then it is best to share the Modern Times 1st pitch.. This can be seen at the extreme bottom left of the picture ( a contrived run-out line has been done thru the grass)
MILLBROOK!!
There is a Pine tree that is just left of center that marks the rap in point & a climb called 5.7 Westward Ha!
http://www.thewhitecliff.com/overview.html
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Tomko
Trad climber
San Jose
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Trial by Fire in Yosemite. Damn thing took me an hour to lead, I stuck a piece of gear, and fell asleep at the base as soon as I returned to Terra firma.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Sex never Did this to my Hands, Gods own Drunk in the Needles, Bonne Homme and El Cracko Diablo at Devils Tower, the full Ruper and Long John Wall at Eldo, Steeple Peak in the Winds all seem to fit the bill.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Magnolia is too clean and straightforward, just way under graded.
NE Pingora too- too clean.
No sketch factor at all.
For sketch you have to go to Clodorado.
How bout Kit Carson or Crestone Needle.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Anytime its done in big boots with a pack over sh#t gear.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Igor Unchained, at The Needles, was rated 5.8 on the first ascent. That would qualify.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oh what am I thinking? Washington column direct! It took. Daphne and I longer than my tow ascents of Astroman combined ( maybe) now ThThat'sat's full value!!
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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East Crack at the Leap kept my attention.
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scooter
climber
fist clamp
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I will second the vote for Great Pumpkin and The Direct Route on Washingtons Column/
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ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
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Forbidden Corner Yamnuska
Oh wait it is now called 5.9
I think when I did it the grade was 5.8 or 5.8+ and I would be hard pressed to come up with one more real than that at the grade.
We were bike touring from Jasper to Banff and ran across a climber (from Alabama?) in one of the huts. He'd come up to do something real like Howse Pk and wound up climbing Forbidden Corner. His statement was its really good "but I couldn't recommend it." Of course when we finished our ride we went to do it. There's a long poorly protected traverse on about pitch 7 that I lead into an exposed belay overlooking the forbidden corner. Next pitch arcs then downclimbs similar to Hueco's Indecent Exposure and then traverses over to a little pedestal where you contemplate the unprotected slab above. My partner whiffed on the move and took the pendulum back into the corner. He was quite shaken and in no shape to go back up there so I went over with the task of getting us off the thing. It was really only a couple heady moves but quite exciting with the prospect of swinging back into that corner.
For 5.7 I nominate Sahara Terror.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Breakfast of Champions at Joshua Tree. Crux is the first move. If you can do that you won't mind the 85 ft runnout on the last pitch including a 30 ft JT-Ball-Bearings slab finish.
(or any other 5.8 with FA Herb Laeger after it)
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Whatchamacallit Love Route, Hallet Peak, RMNP.
Petit Grepon, RMNP.
Man, there's tons of 'em.
Basically any old school 5.8.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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I think there is a bit of mistranslation here. I interpret Jim's original post to mean climbs that have 5.8 moves but the situation, routefinding, seriousness, etc add up to an experience greater than most 5.8s.
Some other posts seem to refer to undergraded climbs, like Dogleg at J Tree which always seemed harder than 5.8.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
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And...the reading comprehension award goes to AP!
Not really interested in the most undergraded 5.8 out there....if it's that undergraded then it is misgraded and should be regraded. I am thinking more about the overall experience....length, routefinding, rock quality, seriouness, caloric expenditure etc.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jim's qualifying attributes are why the Brits came up with the E bidness,
not that there's a HVS that merits an E1, at least that I know of.
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Redwood City
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'Dogleg' has that weird step-across move at the start , and then it's steep....
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Byran
climber
Half Dome Village
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What? Criteria? I was just going to blurt out whatever 5.8 climbs pop into my head...
Elevator Shaft...
Little John, Left...
S Face of Charlotte Dome...
The Groove...
What's that last one? I don't know, but I'm sure The Groove (5.8) must exist somewhere, and I bet it's pretty awkward and polished judging by it's name.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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What? Criteria? I was just going to blurt out whatever 5.8 climbs pop into my head...
I LOVE LAMP!
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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donini, there's a sucker 5.8 at Taylors Falls that doesn't look like anything at all and is notorious for spitting out visiting 5.11 leaders who size it up as a giveaway
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Wiessner Crack on Noonmark Mt. Adirondacks.
or perhaps I wasn't having my best day..
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Now that I've been reminded... I'll throw in a third vote for Overwatch at J Tree. Love that climb. Beats Double Cross for sure for my old school "fun" 5.8 vote.
Dr Rubos in Sedona sort of sticks in my mind as the "hardest" 5.8 I ever groveled up....I were I to make a distinction.
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Chippychopperone
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Satans Corner in Little Cottonwood Canyon. Outside corner in Big Cottonwood Canyon.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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People on here obviously love 5.8. I think all the routes I mentioned are honest to goodness 5.8. Asthetic, good rock, sustained, long and hard for their respective areas.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Braille Book.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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The valley obscurity Pharoah's Beard makes you work for it!
Anybody done Green Savior at GM with all the variations? Man, that is a 5.& you got to work for...
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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1st pitch of Quicksilver--that was stiff!
El Cracko at the Tower-Run run run it out
Skyline at the City
StarDancer at the Needles
Outside Corner at Taylors Falls!!
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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I'd second the SE Face of Clyde Minaret.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Since I don't think any one has given Suicide Rock it's due I pick Surprise on the Weeping Wall. It's an R! But relatively short and sweet, compared to many of the longer routes mentioned.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I guess Clyde Minaret was pretty stiff for the grade. Long, inobvious, very loose in places.
I remember that Zzzzz in Josh was rated 5.8+ when it first popped up in the guide. Now it's rated .10b I think.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Arms Race in Kootenai Canyon used to be rated 5.8.
I thought it was a bit soft...NOT! Ha ha.
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107670640
Short little route, though.
Edit to add:
Another short little route was the old "Knob Mantle" on the King on the Throne at the City of Rocks. Rated "5.8+". I think it got upgraded in the latest guidebook? You guys will have to check it out when you're there soon, J Do. I wasted a heck of a lot of shoe rubber on that thing in the mid 80's...ha ha.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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More to the OP's criteria?
South Buttress Direct w Garnet Traverse on Nez Perce in the Tetons.
Albahida at Sa Gubia on Mallorca. Long, fun climb, great views and top out, nice walk down with fresh persimmons for dessert from the local farmers trees.
Bügeleisen on Piz Gemelli in Switzerland's Sciora. 15 pitches. Grab a 'spro at the hut on the approach, a frosty beer on the hike down. Eye poppin' scenery with the Piz Badile just to the right.
The Lowe Route at Lone Peak Cirque in the Wasatch. Fun! Nice setting. Some of the better rock in the state.
The Via Normal on the Cavall Bernat at Montserrat. Amazing to get to the top of this whopper by such a short, moderate route. Great location.
Traversée des Arętes on the Trois Pucelles above Grenoble on the fringe of the Vercors plateau. Eye poppin' views, right above the old Olympic ski jump. Great food, cheese, and hang.
Speakin' of the Vercors...Les Buis at Presles is great. 8 pitch top out at the car with a short jaunt to fine gite food/wine.
Another good 'un from the Vercors:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/tour-des-gmeaux/106689745
Lazarus in Little Cottonwood. Full value.
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tallguy
Trad climber
tacoma
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West arete of Mt. Winchell. Old school Sierra 5.8.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^ 2 ropes on a 5.8, that says something right there.
Look at Fruitloop up there, he picked a good one. Maybe he does know something about climbing, NAW, he prolly just utubed it.......
On the same wall at the Leap, how about the last pitch of Eagles Nest? or something rather like it, the last pitch on Zebra Zion? Or Epinephrine's chimney pitches? Or, Or, Or, OR...............
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Direct on Column gave me a swollen mangina...
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85
Mountain climber
Washington
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Outer Space, Snow Creek Wall.
When I first climbed it, it was called 8+, think it may be 9 these days, but no matter, I recall thinking "God made the perfect climb" at some point during the delicious final pitches!
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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We had to use aid
Once the bolts go in its 5.8
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Anything Chuck Pratt did the fa of and called it 5.8 ......such as The Umph slot, the dome, Boulder canyon. Old school 5.8 for sure! Best way to thrash up this one is when your hands and clothes reek of gasoline after rebuilding your carberator on your truck. You will float the thing effortlessly. Doesn't matter which side in just don't bother with a harness. Get Mission to take ya up there next time yer in Boulder. Coin toss for the lead.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Wow Stewart, i'll just say DAAMMN!
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Dr Rubos in Sedona sort of sticks in my mind as the "hardest" 5.8 I ever groveled up....I were I to make a distinction.
I suspect this is what happens when supposed ratings travel by word of mouth.
As far back at 1989, Rubos was rated 5.9 in the old Toula guide. Heck in the text, it even says 5.9+. Topo in the back just 5.9.
Overwatch at J-Tree? Not familiar with that one... where is it?
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Smokestack on Wheeler Crest is good.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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When 5.8 is real climbing....
When you turn back the time machine!
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Arches Terrace.....Royal Arches Apron has faded from view and is a quiet, beautiful place to climb within the maelstrom of the Valley. Quiet and with great views.
edit: Smokestack is an impressive 5.10 for that time.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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about the level I was free soloing back in the era when that was considered disreputably insane
immediately thought of Jensen Ridge on Symmetry Spire…Jogill beat me to that; so:
Irene's Arete ( first solo)
North Face of The Grand ( first solo)
Lower Exum Ridge of The Grand ( first solo)
Right Side West Face of Haystack in the Winds (led the first ascent)
Arrow in the Gunks
Harding Route on Glacier Point
Arches Terrace
North Ridge of Half Dome
The Long Climb and many others at Tahquitz (possible first solos)
North Face Mt Edith Cavell (bailed a solo attempt)
many solo ascents not named in Sawtooths, Winds, Tetons, Bugaboos, Sierras, Gunks, Seneca, New River, France, Switzerland, ... including ice in various locations … unusual for the era ...
but a tiny fraction of those by Gill, Donini, Kor, Becky, and many younger climbers since
and often coming across evidence of other unknowns long before me
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Alpinist63
Mountain climber
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a contender for a very real 5.8 route over here in europe is the south ridge of the Aig. Noire de Peuterey. Summit is at about 3800m, length about 50 pitches altough you have to do a lot of simul climbing, otherwise it will be a 3 day expedition...
very little fixed equipment, a serious descent and most importantly, a very excellent route. For those who after getting to the summit want some more, they can go on to the summit of Mont Blanc, thus completing the 'intégral de Peutery'
http://www.camptocamp.org/routes/53825/fr/aiguille-noire-de-peuterey-arete-s
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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great thread...
thanks especially donini, mtnyoung and TomCochrane...
while i don't have anything in particular to add, i can agree with AP regarding the cdn rockies...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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5.8 is pretty damn real to me ;)
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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I also agree with Radical. That first pitch got me thinking the first time I did it.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Wilson Overhang. Steck Salathe
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Steelmonkey
Mr. Hocking was addressing my avatar
we were talking about Dogleg next to Double Cross
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2016 - 07:55am PT
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One more reminder. I am not talking about the most underated 5.8....which, in fact, would not be 5.8. I'm looking for a 5.8 climb that because of factors like length, rock quality, seriousness, route finding etc. provides a real adventure for the grade.
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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The Southwest Face of Sharks Nose in the Winds qualifies. Challenging route finding, plenty of real 5.8, tiny pointy summit, complicated descent, daily afternoon threat of a violent death from lightning.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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I'm looking for a 5.8 climb that because of factors like length, rock quality, seriousness, route finding etc. provides a real adventure for the grade.
Jeebus, 5.1 provides adventure for the grade to me. Starlight is what, 5.4, and it has no adventure?
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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ratings are just a guide
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2016 - 08:39am PT
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Norm is on the right track.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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What is "real"? Whatever it is, if 5.8 still qualifies, so should the 3rd class scrambles in the Alps from the 1800's.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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9th pitch of Spitagoras, Tre Cime area, Dolomites, Italy. Full 150' of overhanging jugs with two(2) bolts for protection. When you look over your shoulder all you can see is the ground 1000+' below.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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JLP, exactly. That's the whole point. I think JD only used 5.8 as a hook.
There's plenty of "reality" well below 5.8, as climbers throughout history have learned.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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I think this fits the criteria.
South Buttress of Raid Peak-Wind Rivers.
One of the longest routes in the range, at 16 pitches. Very rarely climbed.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
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Steve: I am tempted by this route but intimidated by the reputation of the first ascent party, to wit: Arsenault & Bouchard. Since i am basically a coward, could you indicate (text or line on photo) where the route lies? Would a base camp for this one want to be placed at the northern end of East Fork Valley, near the base of the route itself? Terry
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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I guess Culp-Bossier on Hallet comes to mind, for less alpine stuff I agree with Ruper in Eldo and might add Pear Buttress in Lumpy.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Hi Terry,
From the very bottom of the buttress, start about 20-30 feet up on the right,
in a very large inside corner. We stayed on the ridge, kind of following the line of least resistance. We had no cams back then, and it was difficult finding piton cracks, on some of the pitches, with long run-outs.
We had a camp below Mid-Summer Dome.
Are you planning to go back to the East Fork Valley this Summer?
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Jane Gallwey
Big Wall climber
Ireland
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I agree, Tourist Route was the best adventure at the grade that I've ever had.
I'm interested in what other routes meet the criteria...
At 5.7 Ground Control to Major Tom on the other side is a value packed day out.
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Happy Cowboy
Social climber
Boz MT
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I agree with Norm on Shark's Nose SW. I can add steep snow approach if climbed early season. On a cool July morn I resorted to rock daggers in each hand (in lieu of axe)to succumb the final 150' of icy snow to reach the rock in my eb's.
Another from the Winds, "Flashflood" on Haystack keeps you focused. Harvey Carter classic.
2 stand out from the Tetons, "Sentinel Turret" and "Black Fin" on Moran.
Everything Rock, in a small package, no question "Tricouni Nail" Needles. I first climbed it more than 40 yrs ago. Ran into locals and tagged along w' Herb and Doc. We climbed it in 3 pitches, butt belays, stance to stance. Now described as 5.8 1 pitch Trad 70'. Robbins named it "Cerberus".
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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I'd also agree with Pear Buttress in Lumpy Ridge! Good call, there.
Even though I haven't done the climb--Petit Grepon for alpine route.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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From my own experience I would say Pingora fits 5.8 being real climbing. 1983. Nobody else in the Cirque in case of problems or rescue. Pretty great to be running it out with no where to hide. Classic Winds story. Too high, too long, late start, off route, getting dark, storm on the horizon--What could go wrong?
Best day ever!
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Where was the second belay on tricouni?
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Happy Cowboy
Social climber
Boz MT
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Mike, thanks for the question. I recall a saddle like knob on the right ridge (south?) about 35' up which provided a very solid stance and sling for the belay of the crux. Next was straddling the ridgetop directly above the crux knobs, then over to the simul-rap.
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Willoughby
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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I'll nominate Dromedary. Something about crumbly rock, always has a way of turning things "real," and as you can read from my linked TR, it sucked the pride right out of me (and tried to eat my favorite cam).
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Tricouni is a nice one. Did it over fifty years ago with my then wife, Lora, belaying me from the ground.
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Well, J Do disqualified one that I would suggest: The Step at Tahquitz, rated 5.8 when I did it (a loooong time ago), and my eyes just about popped out. Now 10a (might have lost some key bits too).
If length and the potential that the entire cliff could just collapse on you qualify a route, that would be Moby Grape at Cannon. The actual climbing rock is good, but big sectors of the crag go sailing off from time to time.
Maybe too short and with way too high rock quality, but Triple S at Seneca gives a good dose of adventure. ANYTHING at Seneca is an adventure.
We got Little John left a bit above, well, the right side is a nice adventure too and no gimme.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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What is "real climbing"?
Length? Sandbagged? Run out? Fun? Under rated difficulties? Era of ascent?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2016 - 07:19pm PT
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Good question.....hmmm, I'll give you my take. When I say " when 5,8 is real climbing " I mean that the route packs a punch for that grade. I DONT mean that it's a sandbag that should really be rated harder.....in that case it's not really a 5.8. So that would imply that things like length, continuousness, protection, rock quality, route finding, remoteness and other factors come into play to make it more of an outing then the technical rating would imply. I mean a climb that is rated correctly but provides far more bang for the buck because of these other factors.
This scenario could be used for climbs in all of the different grades to differentiate themselves from other climbs sharing the same grade.
Keep in mind that the technical grade is predicated on the difficulty of the hardest move on the climb without regard to some of the other factors that I mentioned above.
Almost everyone thought that I was talking about climbs that were so hard for the grade they were, in fact, probably not the grade.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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A lot of time the grade is the grade, but there's a lot of the grade at the grade. Alot of times it's because you don't have that particular required technique down. And, 5.8 at 2,000 feet is a lot different than 5.8 at 12,000 feet. then, there's rock quality, protection quality (i.e. the rock at Castle Rock is solid, but the cracks are shallow and falred and protection tends to be sparse and/or dubious).
Some areas are just physical and the grades are fair, but climbing there just makes you work. (i.e. Granite Mountain in Arizona and English Grit can be thuggish). Some areas have a lot of routes that make you go "Sheeesh" even if they aren't rated R. (i.e. Tuolumne or Mt. Lemmon).
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Back in the 1950s Chouinard would say that an unbroken sequence of 5.8 moves would be a 5.9 climb. Ahead of his time?
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Evolution traverse felt 5.8
Because I'm not a rock jock ! : ^ /
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ruppell
climber
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When it's not in the gym.
The rest of it is logistics. Length, miles from parking, protection, endurance route and all the other variables that come into play do not make one 5.8 more real than any other. Those things can make a climb more serious or strenuous but 5.8 is still 5.8.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Back in the 1950s Chouinard would say that an unbroken sequence of 5.8 moves would be a 5.9 climb. Ahead of his time?
Good point. I've done a bunch of .8s that had only a few .8 moves, the rest being less. Continuous moves at any grade make the route a different animal.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Isn't Everest only 5.7 ??
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stringband
Mountain climber
Marquette, Michigan
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Jun 10, 2016 - 08:24am PT
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Birchtree Crack - Devil's lake State Park, WI
Gossamer - Rushmore Needles, Black Hills, SD
Triple-S - Seneca Rock, WV
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BluntMan
Gym climber
Wild Omar, CA
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Jun 10, 2016 - 08:43am PT
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Doesn't seem that long ago when I did Sun Ribbon Arete. It was rated at 5.8 and seemed a tad stiff for the grade.
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Barbarian
climber
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Jun 10, 2016 - 08:47am PT
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My how times have changed. I seem to remember a line from a '70s article in a magazine (Summit perhaps?) discussing the high skill level of climbers frequenting Eldorado Canyon..."even weekender climb 5.8".
After 45 years in this game (various degrees of commitment)I can honestly say I don't care about grades at all. I have a number of physical limitations that limit my ability to climb these days. I'm just happy to get on anything. All 5.8s are real climbing.
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JohnnyG
climber
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Jun 10, 2016 - 09:29am PT
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Cassin Ridge is 5.8. Haven't done it yet but I bet it is full value.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jun 10, 2016 - 09:39am PT
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White Punks on Dope
Needles, Southern Sierra, California
air, solitude, variety, oceans of stone, cause to think, longer than three pitches, and with it's southern exposure, off season it is possible to not just be the only party on the route, but at the area.
or old school, ... climbing something meant getting to the top of the formation, or at least the wall, not just "sending the route" which might be only the first 85 feet.
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go1dens4
Trad climber
Melbourne, FL
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Jun 10, 2016 - 10:27am PT
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Just did these on our last trip but id say they were two good 8s that were REAL as 8s are... :
Harry Daley - GP apron - nice sustained 8 in all levels from fingers through hands lots of fun
East Crack - Lake Tahoe Lovers Leap - some good moves to work through in the 8 sections and overall route was good so I thought.
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Iron Mtn.
Trad climber
Seattle Washington
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Jun 10, 2016 - 10:33am PT
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Flake Out at Suicide Rock gets pretty damn serious
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Marcus McCoy from somewhere over the rainbow...
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Jun 10, 2016 - 10:42am PT
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Cry baby in the meadows made me cry like a ...well, baby when i was 20ish feet over my las
Bolt only to realize the next one was about 30 feet to my left. Not to mention that entire line and bolts are near impossible to see until you are like 5'feet from them. Tricky but super super fun little 5.8
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Jun 10, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
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Dogleg. Did it in the mid-80's after taking a few years off. In the meantime friends had been invented. They freaked me out so much, especially when I placed one right into my best jam, that when I fell off I dove for a fixed pin a few feet below.
My favorite is A Little Bit of Nukey (rated 5.9 by some) at Courtright. Very long first pitch.
After thinking a bit, the Bastille Crack was rated 5.6 when I did it with chocks, but was later upgraded to 5.8. Nice little gem.
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Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
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Jun 10, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
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Yes, Mechanics Route at Tahquitz, and Dogleg on the old woman at Josh... but also The Burn at Seneca.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jun 10, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
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Cochrane,
another part of "real climbing" was figuring out that the route, and the place, were more important than the climber. It turns out there were even climbers that did not seek publicity, or even report the routes they did, Tony Yaniro if you need an example... and there were even others, who requested they not be listed, or if they were contacted the publisher to remove the name in the next edition of the guidebook.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jun 10, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
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One way to deal with 10 year-old climbing phenoms is to only climb routes of 5.8 or less difficulty. Dare the little buggers to compete on your level!
;>)
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88
Trad climber
morro bay, ca
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Jun 10, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
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All 5.8's are real climbs. This is a real strange question/post.
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bookie
climber
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Jun 10, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
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Papillon Route on The Aiguille de la Peigne.
New guidebook say it's now the most popular route in the Mont Blanc Aiguilles.
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bookie
climber
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Jun 10, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
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Also the 1938 Heckmair route on the NF of the Eiger.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jun 11, 2016 - 04:14am PT
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I always thought 5.8 was the separating line between "easy" and "hard" climbs.
Everything up to, and including, 5.7 was a cruise.
Beyond that, I actually had to work for it.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jun 11, 2016 - 09:00am PT
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Don't confuse big alpine with rock climbs
grading on a north face is a whole different thing, especially with dubious belay anchors and pro, as is sometimes the case. Actually the crux pitches may only be 5.6 or 5.7 because these will have the loosest rock (limestone anyway). The 5.8 and harder is usually more solid.
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ronniel
Sport climber
berwyn, il
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Jun 11, 2016 - 09:13am PT
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Climbing Baxter Pinnacle, Grand Teton NP. Though a 5.9 route; I climbed this Aug 2004 with my 10.5 yr old and 12.5 yr old daughters, Lisa and Laura, with Nancy Feagin as our Exum guide! Our prior outdoor climbs were top-ropes Devils Lake quartzite cliffs, and this was our first multi-pitch experience. This trip was absolute gold , and we have been climbing since.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jun 11, 2016 - 11:21am PT
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I always thought 5.8 was the separating line between "easy" and "hard" climbs.
Everything up to, and including, 5.7 was a cruise.
Beyond that, I actually had to work for it.
That's exactly the way I remember it back in the mid to late 1950s. 5.8 was not considered trivial.
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Whitehorse Jeff
Trad climber
Fairfield, CT
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Jun 11, 2016 - 09:34pm PT
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Agree with the Needle's Eye as "real"! Also agree with SA re: Pine Tree Eliminate on Cathedral Ledge ( only one pitch- but often locally described as 5.8+ but hard for the grade); as for Modern Times at the Gunks? Real!
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jun 12, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
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bump
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Pamneal
Trad climber
Valley Village
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Jun 12, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
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Braille Book, for sure. Definitely a statement of boldness by Bridwell leading that offwidth pitch with bongs. White Punks on Dope is a close second.
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Morgan
Trad climber
East Coast
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Jun 13, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
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Pitch 3, CHILDREN'S CRUSADE, Whitehorse Ledge, NH
ANGUISH, Trapps, Gunks
Pitch 1 FIRING LINE, Poko, Adirondacks
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
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Jun 13, 2016 - 06:06pm PT
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Modern times in the Gunks- pretty army for 5.8
Werner's Wiggle on Lembert - squeaky glacier polish with consequences
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The Frog
Trad climber
West Allis WI
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Jun 14, 2016 - 10:01am PT
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I first met Paul and Joe Stettner in the 1980's, at a Chicago Mountaineering Club event, if my memory is correct, so when I travelled to Rocky Mountain National Park about a decade later, I was determined to do Stettner's Ledges on Long's Peak, which is rated 5.8. At the time, I was leading pretty solid 5.9-5.10, but I remember that it was one of the scariest, most committing and best routes I'd ever done. And it's still up there, nearly 30 years later-definitely 'real climbing.'
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Flanders!
Trad climber
June Lake, CA
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Jun 14, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
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The Flakes 5.8, Middle Cathedral Rock, Yosemite :
These route is the real deal ! NOT for the 5.8 leader ! This route was done in 1964 by Frank Sacherer and Mark Powell, it is great climbing, a bit run out, and some thought provoking sections. Did this once with 2 YMS fellow guides, not everyone was happen on this route.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jun 14, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
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The 5.8 pitches on the finish to hardings route on Liberty cap are burly.
By that point you are ready to get off the wall, and everything seems "in yo face"
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 14, 2016 - 01:10pm PT
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OK. Now that I understand Jim's query a bit better, I still say Mechanic's Route, mentioned in my earlier post, qualifies. I would add the following California climbs, at least:
1. Arches Terrace (at least in the days before modern high-friction shoes). The traverse keeps the excitement up for both follower and leader, and the crack above is great climbing in a beautiful position;
2. East Crack at Lover's Leap. I took an hour to lead the second pitch the first time I did it in 1973, because I couldn't believe those overhangs and steep dikes and cracks could be only 5.8;
3. Bishop's Terrace. Despite its popularity, the position and beauty stand out; and
4. Coonyard to Oasis. OK, there's plenty of 5.9 getting to Coonyard, but after that, you feel like you're in the middle of nowhere, particularly on the wandering first pitch after Coonyard. I haven't done it in modern footwear, but I have to believe that even if I did, it would still offer plenty of real climbing.
John
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labrat
Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
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Jun 14, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
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Took me a lot longer than a hour! East Crack was a great first 5.8 for me as you can protect the hell out of it :-)
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jun 14, 2016 - 03:21pm PT
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Tits and Beer
The Burn
Triple S
Air Show
True Grit/White Lightning
Sundial Crack
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Jun 14, 2016 - 06:42pm PT
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Hi Terry,
From the very bottom of the buttress, start about 20-30 feet up on the right,
in a very large inside corner. We stayed on the ridge, kind of following the line of least resistance. We had no cams back then, and it was difficult finding piton cracks, on some of the pitches, with long run-outs.
We had a camp below Mid-Summer Dome.
Are you planning to go back to the East Fork Valley this Summer?
Steve A. I am laughing at your description as its a typical entry for a long winds route.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Jun 14, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
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what's the deal with Nutcracker? I've done After Six a couple times and C.S. Concerto once (because the queue on Nutcracker was absurd)
is this really that much better than either of these two? I thought CS was pretty decent
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 14, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
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Gotta say that this thread has taken a direction I didn't anticipate despite several efforts to redirect. Oh well....carry on, I'll stay away from the delete tab.
I was thinking of 5.8 climbs that offer more bang for the buck because of other factors than the technical rating. Wasn't really thinking about climbs rated 5.8 that are really 5.9 or harder....pleny of those, serve them up.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Jun 14, 2016 - 07:19pm PT
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Our children do end up leading their own lives.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Jun 14, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
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As Rich says, "At this point in my career, all 5.8's are real climbing."
Exactly. All relative. Age, run out, rock quality, exposure, sustain aspect, all make 5.8 a cruise or a terror.
Having climbed in many of the areas mentioned, got to say Gunks 5.8 was, for me, often the most brain challenging. Maybe the big exposure and constant work on the arms, especially for me where feet and edging and smearing were my specialty.
Friend Bob Kamps said of the Gunks, "Lean back and your brain falls out." Mine often did.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jun 14, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
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especially for me where feet and edging and smearing were my specialty
Tom, I remember watching you and Kamps climb, marveling at your exquisite footwork. A thing of beauty.
;>)
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jun 14, 2016 - 11:47pm PT
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Gunks climbers are used to having something to hang on to. When we got to Tuolumne and tried the climbs that Kamps and Higgins were putting up, we discovered that there was nothing to hang on to, and precious little to stand on either, and the last piece of protection was somewhere in Nevada. Brains departed with the same alacrity Tom may have experienced in the Gunks.
I wrote about an example of that cranial leakage in http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1616302&msg=1616302#msg1616302. I sure hope that route didn't turn out to be 5.8.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 15, 2016 - 12:16am PT
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^^^that's Gold Rgold, GOLD!
i especially liked Mcgee's accounts:D
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Jun 15, 2016 - 12:52am PT
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I'd say Double Crack in the Gunks qualifies. Not harder than 5.8 and huge holds everywhere, but still...
Curt
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The Frog
Trad climber
West Allis WI
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Jun 15, 2016 - 08:55am PT
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Another candidate I'd post is just a single pitch, probably 100', but a real classic in my book: Continuum in Joshua Tree. Actually rated 5.8+, it probably doesn't have a single move harder than 5.8 on it. The 'catch' is that there might only be 10 feet or so that's easier than 5.8. The rest is sustained, right through the top-out. It's right along side of another crack route, Invisibility Lessons, rated 5.9, but when a buddy followed me up Continuum after he'd led the other climb, his comment was, "That was about a grade harder than the one I just led." Both are John Long routes, but IL felt like a 1 move wonder-Continuum just kept commin' at you... :0
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jun 15, 2016 - 09:12am PT
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I'm still getting my head around the fact that "the Black" has a 5.8 route in it. Maybe there is still hope for me....
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jun 15, 2016 - 06:22pm PT
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Donini,
I think part of it is many do not comprehend why you spell your own name with a lower case "d."
Humility is not a millennial trait. Too many climb for, and are fixed, on the number, so they completely miss the intent of your post and read "sandbag list" instead of aesthetic climbs that happen to be only 5.8. The self involved have gone yet further to start to post a tick list resume.
I think of Jim Whittaker who always refers to the beauty of this place or that... and is always talking about how people are better in the outdoors, climbing hiking whatever... i never heard him once mention to anyone, that he was the first American on the summit of Everest.
You and i both climbed a fair amount with Gordon Brooks pre shoulder injury,
what we share, is love of climbing a new route, a topo perhaps but no beta thank you, altitude, remote location, seasonal and other timing considerations, awareness of weather and the ability to anticipate, adapt to the local stone, minimize rope drag, pace, rhythm, ability to communicate in a howling wind, and 50 other variables and skills seemingly unnoticed by many....
I understood your original question and thought it thought provoking and reflective, thanks for asking!
I nominated White Punks on Dope, 5.8 is correct, not sandbagged. and if you have not done it, i suggest it as something you would enjoy greatly.
as for the rest, Jim did not ask for your resume, or your sandbag,
ed
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 15, 2016 - 11:24pm PT
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Pretty much ties into the whole 'ratings' topic. Without a rating attribute for how sustained a route is the ratings border on meaningless. I can only assume by your OP you're asking about how many routes of the rating are actually sustained at that level such that the climbing becomes 'real'.
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fgw
climber
portland, or
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Jun 16, 2016 - 08:49am PT
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La Raison, ~5.8 and about 8 pitches. Nothing sandbagged. Good rock. No run-outs. It’s all about the location …and timing (Main de Fatma, Mali, 2015).
Original Route on the Candlestick sea stack in Tasmania is supposedly 5.8ish (we screwed up & did a different route). 4 pitches. Catch is that pitch 0 is a swim through some intimidating 20 meters of churning sea water…and the day is capped off by a 40 meter tyrolean back to the headland (w/o a 3rd rope, it’s a memorable one). It’s harder to imagine a bigger adventure in a smaller package and with “such easy climbing.”
Orange Sunshine in Wadi Rum, Jordan is few hundred meters of about 5.7 or 5.8. Sandy crack, groove, slab climbing. The setting & the relative remoteness = memorable package:
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Jun 16, 2016 - 08:56am PT
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as for the rest, Jim did not ask for your resume, or your sandbag,
Deleted it then if it is such a big deal
edit
Or point out a post that fits the ideal so that we can all emulate
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 16, 2016 - 11:24am PT
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Magical Mystery Tour.
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ken weeks
Trad climber
california
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Jun 16, 2016 - 11:32am PT
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South buttress MT Moran was a very enjoyable climb..
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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Jun 23, 2016 - 10:42am PT
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Bishop's Terrace on one of my first trips to Yosemite. We were climbing at Church Bowl at the end of the day when my new "friend" suggested I lead B.T. He handed me a rack with three hexes and two stoppers and I started up about ten minutes before dark.
I would climb up till I got scared, then down climb to a perfect slot for one of the five pieces I had with me. I did this five times and arrived at the belay just as it got totally dark, Fortunately the rack included two extra biners, so I clipped into the ratty old slings and brought my partner up, then rapped by braile to the base
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 23, 2016 - 02:52pm PT
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Some of the best 5.8 "real climbing" I've done have already been mentioned. So I'll repeat them here.
Arrowhead Arete, The Valley
A wonderful all day classic. Ornery approach, spectacular sustained climbing. Trousers soiling narrow ridge with frightening drop offs each side. Long and tricky descent. For some reason it intimidates a lot of people.
Great Pumpkin, Tuolumne
Not a big deal but sustained and runout. A very intimidating finish.
Arches Terrace, The Valley. That brings back memories and now I'll have to go back again.
South Face Charlotte Dome, Kings Canyon. Back country adventure. Route finding. Awesome views. Solid and sustained climbing. Starry night bivvy at the base was a great way to start.
One that hasn't been mentioned:
Pinnacles Machete Ridge, original. Yeah, the bolt ladder start is anomalous but above that, runout...runout....runout. All sustained. If you're a 10+ climber you can free the start.
I got to the top and there were Denny and Colliver. They had just put up a 5.9 route on the same wall.
Two that are still on my tick list have been mentioned:
Lowe's route on Lone Peak
SE Ridge Clyde Minaret
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SuperTopo on the Web
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First ascent by Glen Denny and Gary Colliver, mid 1970s;
Let us know!