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Tradman Chris
Trad climber
Reading, United Kingdom
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 26, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
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I am working through the Chris Mac book on Big Wall climbing, in order to get myself ready for a trip to Yosemite. I have a few questions to ask the experts on here:
1. I was aiding across an indoor roof climb today. The angle was not quite horizontal, and the route was fully equipped with bolts. Once I transferred to aid mode I climbed up my etriers and hung off the fifi hook on the aider crab. From there I was able to attach the next aider to the next bolt, and stepped across to it. I then had a real problem trying to detach the fifi hook from the other aider. Thinking this through I think the problem was probably that I should have detached the fifi hook from the first aider before stepping into the second aider. Does this seem correct? Or should I be considering using a longer quickdraw instead of the fifi hook, so that I don't come tight on the Fifi hook once I have stepped into the second aider? Or maybe Fifi hooking into the daisy chain, so that I am not too tight to the roof?
2. If I had fallen I could imagine the daisy chain coming tight before the rope, creating a shock-load. How do you avoid shock-loading the daisy chain? Do big wall climbers tend to carry spare daisy chains in case they break one in this scenario?
3. What methods do you all use for stashing away aiders and daisy chains neatly while you are free climbing, so that they are available quickly?
Thanks for any tips on this!
Cheers,
Chris (UK climber)
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Lurkingtard
climber
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May 26, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
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The first answer is obvious.
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WBraun
climber
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May 26, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
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For horizontal aid maneuvers adjustable daisies are the ticket .....
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ecdh
climber
the east
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May 26, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
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Those Kong adjustable fifis help with this. Tho a little hairy at first.
Or the petzl adjust.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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May 26, 2016 - 05:03pm PT
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Having come from UK 40 years ago to Yosemite with no intention of doing any aid and yet embracing it once I tried, I think your approach is not right.
1. Good training for aiding on El Cap is hard serious leads in, say Lake District. Hanging on in awkward, strenuous positions, pumping out, looking at a serious fall, fiddling the correct size tiny RP into the only placement for miles and almost out of reach, transfers surprisingly well.
2. Core. Aid climbing, despite those aiders, benefits from a strong core. That same horizontal roof will be more challenging if you are weak, no matter what gear you have. With a strong core, it will go smoothly. If you can hold a front lever, you maybe won't even need the aiders! Intermediate territory, overhanging but not horizontal, is far more common and more worth spending time training for or thinking about.
3. Aside from this, I use the "string of carabiners" trick. Before you start the roof, make two strings of, say, 10 or so carabiners, clipped to your harness tie in loop. Clip one chain in to first piece, clip the other to the next piece, gradually shorten up the chain attached to the next piece until you are under it. This dates from pre-daisy days. I still like it better, because once you slacken the daisy off it flops around and as you spin around and thrash you lose track of which loop you were trying to clip into--they all look the same. And it's faster to clip and unclip carabiner to carabiner than to clip and unclip carabiner and daisy. YMMV....
4. Put that book down, go do some sit ups... hahaha!
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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May 26, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
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I'm a big fan of the Metolius adjustable daisies. __http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/easy_daisy.html__
The one handed operation to both draw them in and extend them is a huge plus compared to other options I've tried including the Kong adjustable fifi, and the Yates adjustable daisy.
As intimidating as is sometimes seems, getting off of your previous daisy as soon as you clip into your next piece is quite important most of the time. A fall onto your previous daisy (which will likely be in at least a factor 1, and possibly factor 2 orientation) can result in much higher impact forces than your belayer catching you.
My wife actually broke an oval carabiner in this way while aid climbing about 15 years ago. She's less than 110lb, but the combination of a nearly static factor 2 fall and gate flutter ripped that BD oval apart. She had very bruised hips to show for it.
K
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 26, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
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Crunch's carabiner trick instead of a daisy is a good one.
Edit: And, unclip the effing daisy from aider you're standing on before you step into the next one!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 26, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
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Crunch has the goods.
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Tradman Chris
Trad climber
Reading, United Kingdom
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2016 - 12:21am PT
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Thanks all.
I realise the first question sounded a little obvious, but wanted to double check that was the reason. It was a bit tricky in the indoor gym last night as I'm not sure they allow aiding so I couldn't hang around up there!
The adjustable daisies sound like they are worth thinking about.
And Crunch: My core is currently hurting after a session a couple of nights ago as it happens!
I'm doing lots of different training at the moment - lots of indoor and outdoor climbing, and general fitness training. It seems to be working well - I am climbing more confidentally and am changing shape (getting lighter and gradually losing the spare tyre!).
I will experiment with the chain of carabiners trick, although doesn't that mean you have to carry a lot (20 ish) of spare carabiners, and spend time chaining them together? I guess in reality you're not going to have to do that kind of pitch often on a route so doing it as a one-off doesn't matter (and you'd have plenty carabiners amongst the gear).
I am trying to do an aid session once a week, as I want to have practiced all of the basic aid stuff before my trip out to Yosemite in September. I don't want to have to learn it all on routes out there.
Thanks again,
Chris
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 27, 2016 - 02:10am PT
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crab
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Tradman Chris
Trad climber
Reading, United Kingdom
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2016 - 03:31am PT
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I was trying to comply to the US standards of spelling words incorrectly ;-)
We spell it 'krab' or 'karabiner' over here (it comes from the German 'Karabiner-haken' - 'spring hook').
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Prod
Trad climber
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May 27, 2016 - 05:58am PT
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Adjustable daises are not necessary for most of what you will be climbing. Don't clutter your setup with adjustable daises. Suffer through a few strenuous moves here and there and you will move way more efficiently on the bulk of your pitches.
Lots of good basic technique here. I use a fifi where Russ clips in with a biner to his 2nd step.
http://www.fishproducts.com/howto/how_to.html
Prod.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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May 27, 2016 - 06:26am PT
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I was trying to comply to the US standards of spelling words incorrectly ;-)
The English language has improved as it moved west. Here in Santa Cruz it is nearly perfect, with little trace the annoying accent remaining :-)
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