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ElGreco
Mountain climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 24, 2016 - 09:40pm PT
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Peeps, has anyone been to the Needles recently? What does the road look like? I am getting vague/conflicting info from second hand reports and the ranger station.
Thanks.
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aliebling
climber
San Francisco, CA
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May 24, 2016 - 10:37pm PT
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I called this morning and the gate is still closed. Didn't get any detail beyond that.
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ElGreco
Mountain climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
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Gate? We are talking about The Needles, CA, right? I've only been once but I don't remember a gate.
Bump for anyone who has been recently...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 25, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
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I've only been once but I don't remember a gate.
You'd remember it if it was locked :-)
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aliebling
climber
San Francisco, CA
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May 25, 2016 - 09:46pm PT
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"Early season FS-21S05 is closed due to snow"
If it is (and it currently is), that adds 3 miles to the approach hike.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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May 26, 2016 - 06:37am PT
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As Kris said, if the gate was locked, you'd notice it. It's right where you leave the pavement.
If the gate is locked you can always go to Dome Rock.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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May 26, 2016 - 08:52am PT
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Great suggestion Levi.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 26, 2016 - 08:56am PT
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OR if the lower road is open you can go to Voodo..... tons of really good climbing.... and I don't mean WPOD (that is a good one)go to the "Emperor" the first pitch is one of the best splitters you can find.
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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May 26, 2016 - 08:58am PT
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EDIT: I was wrong
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 26, 2016 - 09:17am PT
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Park at the gate, take your bike and have a blast.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 26, 2016 - 09:20am PT
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Matty.... Hi, hope your getting better....
your link leads nowhere...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 26, 2016 - 09:31am PT
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Guy is right about the lower road/Voodoo dome option. It's a different Ranger district so here's the contact info:
For Lloyd Meadows Road 22S82 (Voodoo, Demon and Merlin Domes)
and Parker Pass (M-50):
Cannell Meadow Ranger District
Kernville, CA 93238
760-376-3781
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Jiggler
Trad climber
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May 26, 2016 - 10:27am PT
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The lower road is open and in my opinion is not that much more effort to hike to the Witch & Sorcerer than the upper trail (if you can stay on the trail). I spent a few hours this past weekend clearing a path through the past winters fallen trees. I spoke to a few other parties that were up there, and they all hiked in from the closed gate adding around 3 miles one way. I have a gps track if anyone really wants it.
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ElGreco
Mountain climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2016 - 10:38am PT
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Here's the link again: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/needles-conditions/111860489
It's from May18 of this year.
I mean, the road to Whitney Portal also "closes" for most of the winter, but you can get past the closure till snow blocks you. Sounds like 21S05 is not like that?
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nathanael
climber
CA
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May 26, 2016 - 11:13am PT
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Jiggler I'd take the GPS track. I'm also curious if there's any springs or streams up there (near the Needles proper or near the trailhead at the end of FS21S05) where you can collect water. Or enough snow on the ground yet to gather and melt.
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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May 26, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
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ElGreco - I was totally wrong, I saw wrong date on the mountain project thread and got that switched it with the date the thread was started. OOOPS my bad. It still however states the gate is shut, maybe that was posted after you linked to it. either way, hope you get out there and enjoy the magic !
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selfish man
Gym climber
Austin, TX
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Jun 13, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
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bump.... anybody been up there lately? Is the upper road open/passable?
thanks
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Matt's
climber
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Jun 13, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
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If it is of any use-- it was locked over memorial day weekend. Frankly, it was nicer that way--we mountain-biked in every day-- this is a fun and relatively painless option. Had the whole place to ourselves...
best,
matt
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nathanael
climber
CA
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Jun 13, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
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It opened on Memorial Day at 10am. We were loading our packs with food and water to backpack in and camp for a couple days, and as we locked up the car to start hiking in the rangers pulled up and unlocked the gate.
Pretty easy going for a standard 2wd. Enjoy!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jun 13, 2016 - 04:36pm PT
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That sucks. Rangers leave it closed on the long weekend until the last day of the holiday weekend. Thereby they can say "we opened it ON the holiday weekend" but clearly not at a convenient time to be able to use it.
I still haven't been here yet. This failure must be corrected.
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nathanael
climber
CA
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Jun 13, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
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It was my first time up there. So so good, will definitely be making the return trip sometime soon. We had the most of the week to work with so we spent Sunday at Dome Rock, and then 3 full days at the Needles. And we had the place completely to ourselves. Wednesday was the busiest day with a whopping 2 other parties in the entire place. An absolute circus.
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EP
Trad climber
Way Out There
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Jun 13, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
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Last time I climbed there I took my old Stump Jumper and guitar while waiting for my friend to climb The Howling again. First day was the bike with no suspension. Flying over the handlebars and living to tell about it was memorable. Ate dinner, played guitar, and slept in the truck.
My buddy showed up the second day and we had our way with Herb Laeger's 5.8. He was so damn smooth in his day 5.10 was just too easy for him. The buddy wanted to jump on Stars and Stripes Forever next, but I was feeling the bike crash and opted out.
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selfish man
Gym climber
Austin, TX
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Jun 13, 2016 - 07:19pm PT
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Thanks for the information, guys. Mountain biking that road sounds fun, but we have people flying in and driving a rental, so, logistically, that would not work too well.
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YogaSquirrel
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 21, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
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Hey All!
Does anyone know if there is access to running water via the kern river?
Also if you have hiked in and camped at the base how much water per day per person did you bring?
any help would be appreciated. Planning on heading out there this Thursday to Sunday> would love it if we could spend the whole time in the back country without coming back to the car.
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nathanael
climber
CA
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Jun 21, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
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We gave it some thought and looked around but I don't think you'll find any water without hiking wayyyy down the valley to find the Kern or some other river. There were a few patches of dirty snow but that was 3 weeks ago.
If you're climbing hard, especially in the sun at all, you'll likely go through a lot of water. 4 L per person per day? Depends on what you're cooking. Basically big wall rations.
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Coach37
Social climber
Philly
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Jun 21, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
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The thing about the Needles that cracks me up, is that the shitter at the trailhead is sitting right in the middle of a spring. You could have probably put a potable water source right there drawing off the spring, little hand pump or something.
Instead, someone decided to put the poop there instead of 100yds away uphill back toward the camping. WTF?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 21, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
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I thought the gate was open. No?
There is no running water at the Needles. The Kern is quite a distance and about 4,000 vertical feet away. I have packed in there for the weekend, but the packs were heavy because of the water, and even then we were pretty thirsty because he couldn't carry that much with all our camping and climbing gear. You could definitely do an overnighter, say Thursday and Friday, but I wouldn't hike in for any longer than that.
BTW, my wife would appreciate your profile picture.
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kovarpa
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Jun 21, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
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Road is in a great shape.you can drive a gti all the way to the trailhead, just slow.
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Grippa
Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Apr 26, 2017 - 06:13pm PT
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Anyone venture up yonder recently?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 26, 2017 - 07:20pm PT
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Also curious about Dome Rock access...
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 26, 2017 - 09:10pm PT
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Hwy. 190 is closed just south of Ponderosa until about Memorial Day (meaning you need to approach from the north, through Camp Nelson), but it's not a far walk on the road to get to Dome Rock. I sometimes ski it in the winter and it doesn't take long. Mt. bikes would make it really quick.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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Apr 27, 2017 - 08:21am PT
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Additionally, Sherman Pass Rd. is open to the Long Meadow gate, allowing access to Ghost and Spirit Rock. However, the gate allowing access to Long Meadow and beyond (The Domelands) is locked. I know a few folks who have cabins out there, who also live in Kernville. They've been working to get Sequoia NF headquarters to open it up before Mother's Day weekend. Of course, most of these people have burly lifted 4x4's.....
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nathanael
climber
CA
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Highway just opened up, road to the Needles still closed of course.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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Hey Jeremy -
I'm pretty sure you can get out there from Johnsondale but I'll check it out this weekend.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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Can't commit to anything until the weekend of the 20th. And even then, I'm busy setting up things for Kris's slide show. Put me down as a 'maybe' but would love for us to climb soon! Gotta reconnect. BTW, I wasn't clear on your phone number when you posted it last time. email me at climb_on_dude@yahoo.com please. :)
I'll go up to road's end to check out the trail to the base of Voodoo this coming Friday morning.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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he said
UPDATE
Good news for those that are thinking about hitting up local climbing areas during the weekend of the slide show. First, Lloyd Meadows Road is OPEN! This is the road that heads north from Johnsondale, out to the climbers trail for the base of Voodoo Dome (part of The Needles), approximately 13.5 miles from turning onto that road. Maggie and I spent 4 hours doing "spring cleaning" (lopers in hand) on the trail..... boy, did it need it! Lots of overgrown sections. Easy to read now....all the way to 'White Punks On Dope'!
Next, the Great Western Highway is OPEN too! Went to Dome Rock first......access road is dry and snow free! Went to the Needles Lookout Rd next. Sadly, there is a 5 ft diameter tree blocking access about 1/4 mile down the road. No idea when the forest service will cut it back. Possible other trees laying over the road too.
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nopantsben
climber
europe
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:)
thanks! how did I miss it?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Wow, early opening for Great Western Hwy. (190). That's the earliest I can remember it opening for some time (we have a place down the hill so keep track of these things, at least anecdoctally), which is unusual given the amount of snow they got this year. No bets on the Needles road.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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No worries! I needed the exercise! Crazy how Ma Nature had taken over that trail! All clear with good readable distances between cairns too. As for the tree situation for the Needles Lookout forest service road, I have no idea when they'll cut it to open the road. I tried getting local info from the Kernville HQ and they are just as clueless. I did find out that they MAY have the gate to Cherry Hill Rd. (access to reach The Domelands) open by this coming weekend. I can still see a good deal of snow in the Domelands area from the Great Western Hwy.
Maggie taking a much needed rest from working the Voodoo trail
The base of Voodoo
the first pitch of WPOD......classic!
The Ponderosa is open for business
Brew in a jar and the usual over-priced comfort food
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Thanks Mooch....maybe Church Dome for M day after all.
The Pondo would make a find brew pub, don't you think?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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The Ponderosa isn't cheap, but the people are nice and the portions huge. Better than you'll find down the hill at Camp Nelson. I made a point of not hitting Nelson's Place anymore since it appears interested in only catering to soused locals. At the Pondo, Pete's daughter, Debbie, is a wonderful hostess.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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Yep, Debbie is a sweetheart. Ok, portions??......serioiusly? Got a "pie tin" of 14 tortilla chips and a SMALL spoonful of salsa, for a whopping $6.95!! Hmmmm.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Over at the right edge:
Lodge for Sale!
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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Call the Access Fund? ;)
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mooch, order the chili cheese fries (my kids love them). Enough for two meals.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aside from any downed trees, the main thing which delays the Needles dirt road from opening is mud. About a mile in a ravine comes downhill from the left and crosses the road. There is a spring there, and this creates an impressive mud hole. They don't like to open the road until this is passable.
Of course on person's definition of "passable" varies from the next. I drove in a couple summers ago when the road was thrashed from a couple of hard thunderstorms. Huge ruts and rocks all over. I thought I was stretching my luck in my high clearance Tacoma. Out at end the I caught up with four nice young women driving a small Toyota sedan. I guess that makes me a wimp :-)
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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Yah, the gate was OPEN. Just the tree was blocking the way. Likely feel a day or two prior since no one seemed to know.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Sometimes a crappy road isn't so crappy after all.
Last fall the camping area was inundated with minivans, several low riding cars that looked like toasters and illegal camp fires were everywhere.
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TeleRoss
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Last fall the camping area was inundated with minivans, several low riding cars that looked like toasters and illegal camp fires were everywhere
yay for new guidebook
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mattarg
Trad climber
Argentina
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May 15, 2017 - 09:30pm PT
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Hi, anybody have an update on the access road? Tree still across the road? Thanks
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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May 16, 2017 - 07:29am PT
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Nothing yet. Called FS office for Tulare and no one knew. Best to offer is that you bring a MTB and roll in. Temps this coming weekend will be nice up there....daytime high, mid-70's. Anyone doing the lower approach to Voodoo might want to get an early start. Temps lower will be in the low 80's and Voodoo and Demon profiles face south.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 21, 2017 - 08:29pm PT
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Any word on the upper camp access?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 21, 2017 - 09:04pm PT
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It's not unreasonable to hike up to the south side of the Warlock from Lloyd Meadows Road. The South Face Route, or Romantic Warrior and it's neighbors can be done that way. Do the standard raps off the north side and it's downhill all the way back to the car (er, I mean cooler.) I put a decent map and some beta for this approach in the book.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 21, 2017 - 09:17pm PT
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Last fall the camping area was inundated with minivans, several low riding cars that looked like toasters and illegal camp fires were everywhere
-yay for new guidebook-
yep, I'm SURE those are the people that buy climbing guidebooks....
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ec
climber
ca
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Jun 23, 2017 - 09:02am PT
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Pete's daughter Debbie
???
Mary...her name is Mary.
Maybe you guys had too many brews.
 ec
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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To those who would prefer I had left well enough alone, and not made a new guide, I’ll offer up a few thoughts.
The Needles is a world-famous cragging area. People, often lots of people, have traveled to climb there, guidebook or not. Beta (albeit incomplete) and countless beautiful photos are seen online and in books and magazines. The attraction is there, and climbers who want to go there do so.
When the word got out in 1990 that Greg Vernon and Patrick Paul were working on a guidebook, those of us who were regulars were horrified. The Needles were doomed. But nothing really changed. I remember seeing some parties show up at the trailhead and rack up at the car, stuff like that. Most of those types got their shorts blown off when they saw the place, and never came back.
Since then, the number of climbers visiting the Needles has steadily increased. I did a few extended stays there while I was working on the book, and met lots of groups from Britain, France, Switzerland, and so forth who had spent previous vacations at Yosemite, but took this vacation at The Needles. In some cases, it was the sole destination for their trip. Of course, holiday weekends are packed with more local climbers. This is just what happens when one of the best rock climbing areas anywhere gets famous at a time when there are more people climbing than ever.
So, I don’t think the guidebook is capable of making The Needles more well known or more of an attraction than they already are. People have said to me that the book makes the place more accessible, so more will come. But the famous climbs; Thin Ice, Igor Unchained, Spooky, Atlantis, etc., cannot be made more accessible by the book, all the beta anyone could need is on MP. So those are the routes with lines at the base when it’s busy. Now climbers at The Needles can look through my book and find many, many more great three and four star climbs which have been off the radar for most until now. Hopefully climbers will take advantage of this information and quit cueing up for the same eight or ten routes.
I thought long and hard about the impacts of a new book. I came to the conclusion that having a reasonably complete historical record of Needles climbing to put the climbing there into a context not found on-line, to have some beta on other things to do in he area, and to have documentation of every single route in the place, would be more of a service to the area than a disservice. Oh, I did miss one route, an old Laeger obscurity. If you can find it the beers are on me.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Approaches, bolt spacing, rap exits and steep, hard routes will keep the herds manageable. It's the conduct of people that causes problems- like the multiple raging fires during fire restrictions I witnessed during a fall climbing trip.
Thanks for the fantastic guide!
BTW-We were awfully lonely on Hermit last spring.
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ec
climber
ca
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Kris, if you hadn’t done it, someone else might have. Richard and I caught sh!t, even BITD for the original ‘minimalist’ guide.
What changed everything was having the web. There’s no turning back.
ec
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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ec is right the Jeannie is out of the bottle with the web. It's changed every climbing area and backcountry ski stash forever. Your book is appreciated.
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bhorowitz
Trad climber
Berkeley
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I'm one of those people who first went to the needles a bit ago (5 years?), pre-guidebook, and only really got on the classic/obvious lines I saw in the old masters of stone videos (airy, thin ice, atlantis). Went back this past summer with the lovely new guidebook in hand and got on some weird obscurities and had a great time! Thanks Kris!
But the real point of this thread; when will it be clear enough to get back this year? ;)
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