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christoph benells
Trad climber
Tahoma, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 22, 2016 - 07:25am PT
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How are people doing this?
I see pictures of marine batteries and wires and stuff going everywhere...
What is the easiest/best way to get electricity to the back of my dirtbag mobile?
I won't need much, power a laptop and maybe a lamp or somethin, maybe i could get fancy and get a microwave or a blender one day.
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jonnyrig
climber
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May 22, 2016 - 07:29am PT
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Powering a laptop is as easy as adding a single (fused) 12v power port back there and a cheap ass inverter to 110v. Cost you a couple hours to run the wire and a few dollars to buy the components. Blender and microwave take a lot more juice, so everything would be significantly beefier and more expensive. Make sure you install the fuse right off the battery so you don't burn the vehicle down when it shorts out.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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May 22, 2016 - 07:32am PT
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christoph benells
Trad climber
Tahoma, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2016 - 07:35am PT
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I would like to have it seperate from the car's battery.
I was hoping to avoid the Goal Zero route, but that may be the way to go.
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2016 - 07:38am PT
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Easy.
The way I do it all the time on pickup trucks is install a fused ignition switched relay near the battery terminal and the run the positive power cable thru the vehicle frame channel to the rear.
If you want your 12vdc power cable "hot" at all times then eliminate the relay but never the fuse.
You will/might need a fish tape to be able to pull the wire thru the channel.
There's other hokey ways to do it and I've seen many and their problems that appear/ed later .....
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2016 - 07:43am PT
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Goal Zero Yeti 400 is over priced piece of sh!t!
Believe me.
They had one here and fried everything on that dumb ass over priced garbage.
The charger is not designed for damp environments the circuitry is cheap labor and materials installed with massive flux residue left behind on the circuit board.
One can buy a excellent battery and charger much better then that garbage for less then half the price if you know what you're doing.
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ECF
Big Wall climber
Ridgway CO
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May 22, 2016 - 07:56am PT
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whatever.
I've had mine for three years and have never had any problems.
So please, post up how to install a 110v system for less than $225.
Because where I live you'd spend that on just the battery. (Yellow top optima)
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2016 - 08:17am PT
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Everyone falls for those sh!tty Yellow top optima and Optima's period because they fall for that marketing bullsh!t.
Their batteries suck.
Look at T Hocking's batteries as he didn't fall for those Optima battery garbage.
For the OP's needs he doesn't even need more then 100 watt invertor to run a laptop and charge his phone.
He doesn't even need a pure sinewave invertor for that either.
He doesn't even need a big battery for that application.
But if he want's to cook in a microwave then all bets out and he's insane and lazy for wanting to use a microwave as dirtbag setup in the field.
But if you want blow money unnecessarily then do it your way .....
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 22, 2016 - 08:37am PT
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So please, post up how to install a 110v system for less than $225. If you're implying Goal Zero has something for $225, then I'll bet you can match its specs 1:1 or better for under $100 between Harbor Freight and Wallmart. Goal Zero is a product for people incapable of understanding the difference between an Optima battery and a wet turd with 2 pieces of metal sticking out of it.
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2016 - 08:53am PT
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LOL JLP
In defense of Goal Zero I like their package setup.
Unfortunately it's a rip off for the quality of their components at their prices.
In defense of Optima, they used to be OK but their batteries went to sh!t years ago.
I get used blue tops for free sometimes from NOAA since they swap them out all the time here on their weather stations.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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May 22, 2016 - 10:11am PT
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There are many ways to tackle this set up. A most creative system was one Wardie Ward set up on his VW bus in Kohu Kohu New Zealand years ago! Has some down side problems but will work.
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ECF
Big Wall climber
Ridgway CO
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May 22, 2016 - 11:34am PT
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No, 225 is the half price Werner said it could be done better.
I had a yellow top set up for years, but that must have been one of the good old batteries.
just offering my real world experience to answer somebodies random question.
The 400 works perfectly for my needs, and is used for other things besides camper power.
If it fries, they have a warranty department. Does your cobbled together system have that?
But I will bow to the gang mentality and shut the f*#k up and blow away.
So sick of your pseudo spiritual claptrap and domineering statements of opinion.
If you lived in the real world, $400 wouldn't be an absurdly high price to pay for something that fits your needs perfectly.
But you hide in your protected nook of beaurocracy and act like we are all stupid for living in the real world.
Newsflash, some people make more than 400 in a single day.
It is true, this place has become a joke, where old hasbeens puff each other up and talk about everything but climbing.
This place has no value to me anymore, as all the real climbers are over on MP.
(Vitally is there too, so pipe down)
And while I'm delivering my departing soliloquy, guide book authors are the pimps of the outdoor experience. Selling that which they don't own for personal gain.
Sure they bought her some nice clothes and make up to make you want it more, but they don't own the resource. The greatest joy outdoors is facing the unknown. Guidebooks destroy that for profit.
Well, that ought to get me banned.
See ya later chumps.
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2016 - 11:44am PT
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LOL ^^^^ meltdown in progress ....
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John M
climber
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May 22, 2016 - 11:47am PT
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look up optima batteries on the 4x4 sites now. 10 years ago.. da bomb. now.. not so much. Don['t know what happened to them.
Werner is just Werner... he has lots of great knowledge, and some times he even shares it. If you can't deal with him, then yes, you belong somewhere else.. How many years does it take people to figure Werner out? He is a pussycat.. So what if he barks
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
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John M
He's a Coloradical from Colorado and a "Real Climber" :-)
That's how they swing their huge racks.
He's happy with his Goal Zero $450 unit.
He's just pissed lol because I called his Goal Zero and his Optima a POS.
Too funny ...
P.S. guido's VW bus rig example is awesome ....
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 22, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
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Look at this thread or read what I've pasted below...
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/77503-How-to-make-a-cheap-isolated-dual-battery-setup-for-50
So there are a lot of kits you can buy to have truly isolated dual-battery setups. Those are VERY NICE kits. They are also very expensive. I try and replicate those kits without spending as much money, while still having a similar level of quality and/or reliability. There are constantly posts on this forums about 'How to do dual-battery setups' and most are from people who don't want to spend the $$ on the kits. I didn't want to spend the money either, so came up with a simple list people need to buy to get a reliable and safe dual-battery setup.
Step #1 - Get a beer, this will take awhile
Step #2 - Look at the diagram - study it in detail as this is an incredibly complicated setup that will take years to learn properly. Plus, there will be a test at the end.
Step #3 - Have another beer, that was a rough diagram and you deserve a reward
Step #4 - Source your parts!
Get your own batteries - I won't go into batteries, which are best, etc. I have 2 DieHard Platinum batteries in my truck and a cheap Wal-mart battery in my trailer. Some like Odyssey, some like Optima, some like Trojans
Get your cables ($14)...for a simple setup you can go w/8 or 6 gauge, but I've found that 4 gauge battery cables with the ends cut off work well, because they are cheap and carry a decent amount of current.
http://www.handhelditems.com/20$$-gu...e-p-47794.html
You'll also need some 12 gauge wire. If you don't have 12 gauge wire laying around, you probably shouldn't be wiring your own dual-battery setup. Or borrow some from a friend. If you don't have any friends, turn off your computer and get a life!
Get your connectors ($7)...you know, to connect your cables to your batteries and stuff
http://www.amazon.com/IMPERIAL-71861...ref=pd_cp_hi_3
Get your fuses!!!! ($13) ... you need one fuse for each battery, trust me on this one
Go here are order part number ANB740N0N02, they are 80A ANL fuses + the fuse blocks
https://www.vtewarehouse.com/content...nl/anlfuse.php
Note: If you are wondering why 2 fuses, it's because each battery has power and could blow up your truck, so it's best to fuse both batteries. Put the fuses as close to the battery as is practical.
Get your solenoid ($16) ... this is what keeps one battery from draining the other battery, or something similar to that (mostly it keeps them 'isolated' from each other so you can still start your truck to make a beer run)
Cheap -->http://www.amazon.com/Continuous-Dut...sim_sbs_auto_1
Good -->http://www.amazon.com/Cole-Hersee-24.../dp/B001FQL43U
Way good -->http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o00_s00_i00
Step #5 - While you're online, order some good beer from the great Pacific Northwest (they ship everywhere!)
http://www.northwestliquidgold.com/
Step #6 - Wiring everything up
Follow the picture above
Find somewhere to put everything in your engine compartment (or truck bed, or wherever your 2nd battery might end up...unless it's one of those fancy sealed-up battery things, don't put it inside your rig or it might leak hydrogen gas and Hindenburg your *, so just don't do that, okay? ).
Make a short 4GA wire from your main starting battery POS (short for positive, not for piece of $hit)to your fuse block.
Make another 4GA wire from your fuse block to the isolator
Make another 4GA wire from the other side of your isolator to the other fuse block
Make a short 4GA wire from the other fuse block to your other battery POS
Make a single 4GA wire from the NEG on your starting battery to the NEG on your other battery
Connect a 12GA wire from pin on the isolator to a fuse in your fuse box that is only 'hot' when the key is in the 'ON' position (aka the truck is running)
Note: You can use fancy heat shrink on your wire connections, and that will work very well. Or you can take a roll of electrical tape (UL Listed, please) and wrap each connector-wire connection in electrical tape. It's about 80% as effective at about 10% of the cost or effort.
TOTAL COST - $50 (cheap) $59 (good)
Cables - $14
Connectors - $7
Fuses - $13
Solenoid - $16/$25
Note: Cole-Hersee solenoid will be much more reliable, so spend $9 less on beer and upgrade to the nice solenoid
Note #2: Don't try and jump-start your truck using your other battery using just this setup (ie through the solenoid). Instead, pull out your jumper cables (you DO have jumper cables, right? you didn't just cut up the pair you keep IN THE EVENT OF EMERGENCIES, right? right?) and jump from your backup to your starting battery using the jumper cables
Note #3: The big difference between this and the fancy setups (other than the cool battery gauge things) is those will usually use a voltage-sensing time-delayed-opening solenoid-type dohickey that allows your starting battery to charge first, before charging up your other battery. If that means anything to you, it might be worth spending the $200 more to get one of those sets. If you have no idea what that means, get in line, I don't really understand it either, but apparently it's worth $200
Final Step - Have a beer, enjoy how cool you are, and now go build a cheap $100 awning with the money you just saved.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 22, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
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dding solar is fun and easy...first step, make sure you live somewhere other than THESE PLACES
Step #7 - Get a solar panel ($80)
I prefer to just use some tin foil and spare speaker wire, but if you want a real solar panel, you can't go wrong with Solarblvd
Step #8 - Get a beer
Did I mention you can order beer off the internet? No, really...you don't even have to leave your chair! (except when the UPS guy comes)
Step #9 - Order a 'Charge Controller' ($44)
wtf is this, you ask? It's a complicated thingymajig that makes sure your solar panel (or tin foil) doesn't overcharge your battery, leaving you stranded somewhere warm and sunny but with a dead battery (which means no power for your cheap Edgestar fridge, and NO COLD BEER!)...luckily people way smarter than either you or I figured out how to make it also work with your normal alternator, so you don't have to keep unplugging it every time you start your truck.
Apparently, tribes in the Amazon have a website that allow you to order this magical device delivered from the man in brown. Hopefully it survives the trip down the river and through the rainforest.
Note: Hooking up a solar panel is really easy, check out the schematic for the above controller...a few squiggly lines and some funny arrow-things can't be that hard to do IRL, right?
Note 2: Since like the crackhead you were in your youth, you'll jump right on any bandwagon driving by, make sure you get a larger charge controller now, so you can hook up more tin foil later, otherwise you'll have to re-buy another controller and then it won't fall under the 'cheap solar' category anymore, kapish?
Step #10 - Hook it up like this picture
Total cost - $124
Solar panel - $80
Controller - $44
I'm sure there's more to it than this, right? right? I can't believe, if you have two batteries already, and you have $200, you aren't fully equipped for a solar-charged, isolated, dual-battery setup yet, right? I spent $200 in beer in MARCH! Get out your credit card and contribute to our economic recovery!!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 22, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
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I actually don't know anything about Optima batteries other than their worst one is probably 10x better than the guts of a Goal Zero.
I actually recommend the most common form factor locally sourced AGM you can find. Think NAPA, Pep Boys or Oreilly. Even the most expensive and well cared for batteries will eventually fail while you are in the middle of a road trip. Also, these things are heavy, shipping costs are going to be difficult to recoup through any additional life or performance, IMO, if there even is any. There are only so many battery manufacturers, rebranding is super common.
T Hocking's system pictued above looks pretty servicable, just needs some cabinetry to hide it.
Beware of the various RV forums, they're full of people with more money than experience, and most of what experience they have seems to have been gained reading marketing literature on the internet, all while not being able to apply ohms law.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 22, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
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I'd avoid the Optima - way over priced (although their warranty is pretty good as I recall). Get a battery for a solar system (basically a marine battery) just don't buy it from west Marine.
And if you don't know Ohms Law you should learn a little about both DC and AC. Wire size matters depending on current draw and distance....Yes Size does matter.
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John M
climber
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May 22, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
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Sure Werner, I get why he is mad. I just don't get why people can't figure you out or figure out how to deal with you.
Lots of people here piss me off.. but then I figure out how to deal with them. Some I just completely ignore. Of course I learned from the epitome of a PITA.. She who must not be named.. And that took a few years. LOL.. she use to really get under my skin. I also had to learn how to just let it go and not get so wrapped up in my opinion.
I wonder what happened to Optima batteries.
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