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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 15, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
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What is the ethical ammount to mark up auto parts? I understand that everyone has to make a buck but 100% seems high to me? in carpentry we are lucky to get away with 20% and 10% is more normal. Mechanics are pulling down $80 buck an hour + the mark up......
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2016 - 06:49pm PT
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I am talking about a mechanic, not the parts store. What is the standard mark up? A part that is $52.00 at the parts store what should your mechanic charge you?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 15, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
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400%
A friend of mine took her Miata to a local mechanic to have the clutch replaced. It cost her $750. A competent mechanic would have swapped out the clutch in less than two hours. She was charged over $500 for a clutch kit that costs $125 at a parts store.
Either that, or the mechanic charged her $300 per hour.
Go Turn A Wrench - - - Yosemite Mechaniceering School
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ruppell
climber
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May 15, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
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Most reputable mechanics will put in OEM parts. Those cost way more the the cheap after-market stuff you're gonna get from Autozone. I had the alternator replaced in my 2002 Jetta recently. I could have done it my self and sourced a cheap rebuild for under 100 bucks. I took it to my mechanic instead. He put in an OEM Bosch alternator that cost just north of 200. If I where ignorant of the difference I could see how I'd think he ripped me off. But I'm not so I didn't. Out the door it was 290 dollars and I didn't have to bust a knuckle.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
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Just had a $952.00 dollar tune up on the astro van. I uderstand that it is a total pain to work on which is the Only reason that I had someone else do the tune up. I had a bank 2 O2 sensor code when i brought it in. that is the really stupidly hard one to reach above that cat converter on passenger side. Charged me $137.00 for the o2 sensor and I get a mile down the road and get annother o2 sensor code. same sensor. After 5:00pm on a friday so I Crawl under the van in the rain and see that they changed the sensor after the Cat. the easy one to get to. Bought a brand new Bosch o2 sensor for $52.00 and fixed it myself. TOTAL PINTA to do without a lift. even with a lift I am certain it sucks..
Absolutly nothing wrong with a rebuilt alternator on an older vehicle. I just had mine replaced a few weeks ago and the part was $167.00 so I suspect it was a $90.00 rebuild + mark up?
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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May 15, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
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Trad, since when are Vermonters driving? I thought horses and wagons were still the norm...
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 15, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
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100% is the standard retail markup at places like Nordstrom, but they aren't charging you an hourly rate for shopping with them. It seems like charging $80 an hour but with a significant markup on parts is a good way to underepresent your costs to the consumer.
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ruppell
climber
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May 15, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
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1000 bucks for a tune-up is ridiculous. Get a new mechanic. Cap, rotor, wires, plugs and fuel filter shouldn't be more than 300 bucks. My wife has an Astro so I get to work on that POS more than I want. There not that hard as far as vans go. You wanna have some fun try changing anything on my 89 Toyota van.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 15, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
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Most reputable mechanics will put in OEM parts
Fair enough.
But, I put a Bosch alternator for a 2002 VW Jetta in my old Range Rover, to get away from OEM Lucas electrical parts.
It's basically a standard upgrade these days.
Underepresent your costs to the consumer.
That is a great euphamism.
EDIT:
There is a bit of a problem in applying ideas of ethics and morality to business dealings.
Profitability and morality are almost, but not quite, mutually exclusive.
If you blindly trust in the Magic Hand of Free Enterprise, there is no such thing as morality. That $20 spark plug, cited below, could easily fetch a $400 and a Rolex watch from a guy on a motorcycle with no water in Death Valley.
If, instead, you want to have some measure of ethics and morality in the world of commerce, then you basically are asking for the government to step in and regulate business.
People, as a whole, are ethical. But, the few who are not ethical tend to gain an unfair advantage and then dominate their industry.
Not surprisingly, it is the wealthy, successful people who lobby the hardest for deregulation (lawlessness) in business and politics.
EDIT EDIT:
$400 and a Rolex watch for a motorcycle spark plug is chump change, and not even really part of the real Free Market game.
Gilead Sciences charges $100,000 for a single patient's treatment with their hepatitis medicine.
OLD SCHOOL: "Your money, or your life." (points gun at victim)
NEW SCHOOL" "Your money, or your life." (hands drug prescription to victim)
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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May 15, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
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Ethical mark up on auto parts?
Whatever the market will bear.
A spark plug costs $20 in the desert.
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ruppell
climber
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May 15, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
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Good point Tom. There's always after-market parts that are better then OEM stuff but my point was about the crap you'll get from Autozone, Oreilly, NAPA and the like.
Case in point. I went to put a new starter in my van a few months back. The starter had been getting worse and worse and finally it was time to fix it. I did the standard electrical checks to make sure I had at least 11.5V at the trigger wire. I did. So with any electrical or ground problems eliminated I went to Oreilly's to get a cheap after-market rebuild. 65 bucks and I'm out the door.
I get under my van and do some trickery to get the starter out and back in. Hook the battery back up and start the rig. It fires up and I shut it down to put away my tools and clean up. Ten minutes later I get in my van to go somewhere and "click". No sh#t. I'm pissed. I get the tools back out and check voltage again. It's good. I tap the starter as my wife cranks and it fires up. Shut down and try to start again, "click".
I rip the starter out and return it. The manager gives me the usual "I've never seen one fail out of the box before" BS. Do a google search of it. It's common with all cheap after market stuff because there is no quality control. I ordered up a new Denso(OEM for my van) from Amazon and put it in two days later. My van has started hundreds of times since without an issue. I will never buy anything from Oreilly's again.
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WBraun
climber
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May 15, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
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The starter motor is not the solenoid.
So you just proved you don't know what your talking about.
The "click" is the solenoid ......
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ruppell
climber
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May 15, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
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Piss off Duck
The click is actually from a starter relay that is mounted under the dash. So before you go off with the dumb american BS check the vehicle your talking about first.
The starter and solenoid are both housed on the starter. You can't replace the solenoid without removing the starter in my van. Since it was a new refurb I shouldn't have to do either.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 15, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
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WVB was the head of the Yosemite Mechaniceering School, back when men led the Twilight Zone with no gear.
In those days, you would de-click your car by changing out the solenoid. The starter motor itself would whine on its bad bearings, but at least it would turn. If it wouldn't turn, because the windings were burned out, then you changed out the starter motor, but kept the old, barely functional solenoid to save a few $$$$$. Been there. Done that.
The starter and solenoid is typically sold as a single unit, these days.
It's a bit harsh for WVB to say, "You're full of monkey grease."
I tried to get a separate solenoid for a starter about ten years ago, and couldn't. I wound up repairing the old one by hard soldering on the burned up electrical contacts. It was a very cheap repair, pretty easy to do, and it worked great.
I used 45% silver solder, like RPs, brass offsets, HB cams and VG cams use to secure the cable. That stuff is magic. It makes regular electrical and plumbing solders look like cheap and weak bubble gum crap, by comparison.
Propane and oxygen through a tiny tip, baby. Oh, yeah.
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WBraun
climber
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May 15, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
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LOL ......
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ruppell
climber
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May 15, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
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Glad you got a kick out of duck.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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May 15, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
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Stoopid Americans auto loons and their iron horse failures...Real horses don;t have steering wheels or starter motors with Bosch solenoids...Real horses eat oats not gas...
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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May 16, 2016 - 12:04am PT
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real horses eat oats and make gas
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 16, 2016 - 01:49am PT
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Put a horse in your gas tank??????
I thought it was Put a Tiger in your tank.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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May 16, 2016 - 07:54am PT
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Around here the standard markup seems to float around 100% for Chinese reman'd stuff and around 50% for OEM/dealer parts.
I have yet to find an honest and good mechanic locally but in 80% of the situations I'm doing the work myself.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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May 16, 2016 - 07:58am PT
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A good and honest mechanic is like a doctor, hard to find a good one and worth their weight in gold when you do.
I got f u c k e d by one in the last few years here in Arizona. It was Big O Tires and the only reason I took it in was because it was a pain in the ass to do and I didn't want to do it myself.
It was a simple coolant change but the hose was very hard to get to so I had them do it. Then my water pump went out a few days later and when I went to change that all the bolts were loose
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Chugach
Trad climber
Vermont
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May 16, 2016 - 10:40am PT
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I've been ripped off by mechanic scoundrels as well.
To correct someone earlier, big box stores and most big retailers work on a 150% markup (or a gross margin ranging between 65% - 70%).
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 16, 2016 - 11:44am PT
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Parts get marked up each time there is a transaction.
Manufacture to wholesaler.
Wholesaler to retailer.
retailer to you.
And that's for stuff made in USA.
And often there are markups within dealerships when the part is inventoried and then when the part is "ordered."
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 16, 2016 - 11:54am PT
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I think a lot of people are forgetting, or overlooking, the increasingly
high cost of doing business. That $80/hr mechanic, if he is self-employed,
is probably only making $40/hr so his parts markup is where his profit is.
And, if he is smart he is using his profit to fund his retirement although
it is more likely going towards his boat payments. Granted, it seems
usurious but I don't see many doctors giving up medicine for wrenching.
My independent Volvo mechanic is God's poster child for honesty so I don't
begrudge him his markup. YMMV
And BTW, y'all could buy a nice old Dodge Dart with a slant-6 and make yer
life simple and cheap again.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 16, 2016 - 11:54am PT
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O2 sensor-wise. If they changed the wrong one. Don't pay 'em.
I just bought one online. Dealer prices used to be around $180. I got it for $60.
Probably a good investment to buy a O2 sensor wrench for those hard to reach ones. $25.00. You may still need as swiveling socket adapter and a nice medium sized breaker bar. I made my own bar.
I had an entire wiring harness replaced a long time ago. I got two blocks away and encountered the same symptom. On "closer" inspection they found a cracked distributor cap.
I threatened them with non-payment and I think I got all the labor charges back and I left the harness in since it was getting pretty ratty.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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May 16, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
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And BTW, y'all could buy a nice old Dodge Dart with a slant-6 and make yer life simple and cheap again.
Don't think I haven't thought of that! IIRC, the only tools I needed to work on my Chevy II straight six 194 was one box wrench and a pair of pliers. Three on the tree and a Rochester one barrel sweetness.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
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changed the radiator in my 67 K20 in about 15 min. I bet the book on the astro van is 5hrs.........
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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May 16, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
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Keep in mind your mechanic is also getting a discount from the parts store price you pay. i've had mechanics (friend) that passed on the discount, some that charged about the same as my price at the store. and some that added about 20% which is more like 40% to them with their discount.
Now i typically go in with the part. Some will say they can't do that. Others will say they won't guarantee the work. Others are fine with it.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
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100% mark up on parts is bullshit when you also charge an $80.00 per hour labor rate. We bill carpentry out at half that and only mark up materials 10 to 20%
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teejaybee
Trad climber
Australia
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May 16, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
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Crikey - 100% markup on parts? I'd never go back. 10 - 20% would be bearable. Our mechanic services our diesel machinery and personal vehicles, and the parts pricing on our invoices are what he pays wholesale (trade discount). He then adds whatever is reasonable to the labour charge to cover the cost of shipping he had to pay for the parts and for someone's time ordering and chasing it all up, which is usually around half an hour for a heap of stuff or unusual items or nothing if it was easy to get and he could bring it in with a heap of other parts he needed for other stuff. 100%... Fark!
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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May 16, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
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I have had the pleasure of creating prices for all kinds of things.
Ethical mark-up would only apply in a corner the market situation like selling food to starving people when you have plenty.
Pricing is based on getting as much as you can without pissing off your client or yourself.
The percentage is poor way go because it depends on the cost of goods. Or scarcity and demand.
If you charge too much you loose a customer for short term profit. If you want to grow you don't do this. If you hate your client you do this to get rid of them.
Auto parts is a very competative area. Used auto parts for example.
Most pro mechanics get a discount from the parts stores according to my pal who is a mechanic here in Burbank.
If you are unhappy, get a different mechanic. There are millions of them. I avoid mechanics by always buying new cars that rarely need fixing.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2016 - 03:03am PT
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There are ethics is everything if you are an ethical person. Fair is fair. I know all about overhead and all that sh#t. I was a cheff in a former life. Guy has to make a liveing but when you push too far you go from makeing a living to being a leech.
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jonnyrig
climber
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May 17, 2016 - 03:31am PT
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Here's what I think of when people start discussing part prices:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304526204579099181709700164
I don't know what the "ethical markup" happens to be these days; because mostly I don't do business with other mechanics. What I tell my students is that when they go out in the world, they need to represent themselves and the industry with honesty and integrity, pointing out things like VW and a recent experience I had with a local shop.
I took them a drive shaft and asked them to check it out and advise me. They called and said the whole thing's shot, and they could build a new one for $309. I told them I'd be right in to pick up my old parts. I went to their competitor down the street and bought the parts to fix it myself for $60. Now I'm dropping their name (the first shop) all over the place, telling people exactly how they tried to screw me.
Ethical markup? Seems to me 100% is high; but given the variability of parts pricing, I wonder where the part was sourced and whether it really was 100% markup for you? As to not getting the correct sensor replaced in the first place, that's really something you should have returned to them and made them fix. As is now, you're probably screwed, and given the description of all that's happened, is it a fair guess to say you're not going back there again?
O2 sensors before the cat control the mixture. O2 sensors after the cat monitor the system so that the OBDII can tell if everything's doing its job. Sounds like your shop wasn't competent to perform the tests that tell you which sensor was f*#ked up, or skipped them. If the upstream sensor goes out, the downstream can throw a code when it's actually working right; but you have to actually do some diagnostics to see what's going on. If you continue to have issues, you may be looking at a failing cat, injector, or something as simple as a misfire causing poor exhaust. Again, it's all about the diagnosis. Replacing parts is the end game, and often the easy part of it all.
http://www.batauto.com/articles/catfailure/
Incidentally, I'm not quite sure why the f*#k I'm awake and posting here at 3am...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 17, 2016 - 07:12am PT
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Capitalism folks....ethics be damned.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 17, 2016 - 10:42am PT
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Raping customers for parts isn't where the real money is, it's all about inflating the book time. Most customers are clueless, however you can get book time from alldatadiy.com or somesuch. They already know you're going to look up the parts online, generally there's an oz of shame there.
Most common is something like charging full replacement hours each for 2 different components that get removed at the same time if either one needs to be replaced - or maybe full hours for a belt + full hours for the water pump. Sh!t like that.
Really - even if you don't know squat about cars - it's all kind of irrelevant. If you don't like the price, move on to the next shop. They all do it, it's just a matter of degree.
And - even that's irrelevant - the REAL money is lost due to incompetent and bumbling mechanics causing destruction you never see as they race through the repair in the least amount of time (they generally get a bonus % of the invoiced hours for finishing under the estimate) - until that major car-scrapping problem pops up - gee, must have gotten a lemon - yeah right.
Have fun, I pity those who have to rely on mechanics.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 17, 2016 - 11:16am PT
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JLP..... good post.
I just recently found a "good shop" .... he did a brake job on my wifes CRV and it was a good job.... he then took care of some oil leaks we had with the same car, for a good price. So I was beginning to gain some trust.
My Civic had a radiator go out in deepest Arizona, paid top dollar to have that fixed and got my car home and I knew that I had blown the head gasket.
Talked to new shop owner and he knew just what needed to be done (everything basically) so I agreed and gave my beloved Honda over to him.
Get the car back, everything seems OK... for about a week. The car felt sort of sluggish and took some spinning to get going in the morning... witch is not right in my car.... then "check engine light comes on" .... then it develops a misfire and will not go past 3,500 rpm..... So I go to my default position.. The local Honda Dealership... these boys are $120 hour, but they don't seem to sling BS. and they do work fast.
Bottom line.... Timing belt is one tooth off, your crank sensor is cracked and the front motor mount was never screwed back on to your motor and the deal that holds the wire loom in the correct spot is not there and the deal that holds the AC line in the proper place, so it dosen't rub on the pulley and burn through is gone... cracked actually... so $1,000 to the dealership and im back on the road. NOT HAPPY AT ALL WITH THE INDEPENDENT DUDE.
I don't mind paying good money for good work, a bit extra is OK, cause its just money after all and I need my car to get me through life's adventures.
So to address the topic....I don't really care about the markup. All I really want is GOOD PARTS, the same quality parts that got my car to 200000 miles without crapping out..just do a good job with the wrench turning.
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