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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 6, 2016 - 06:15am PT
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When should the lost/injured party be given the bill?
WLOS — ASHEVILLE, N.C. -- After days of searching and multiple agencies' combined efforts, two missing hikers were found busking in Asheville.
Tesla Rackley and Anthony Logan were reported missing during a Pisgah National Forest camping trip with family on Saturday. Authorities in Henderson County sent out a press release to media on Monday asking the public be on the lookout for the pair.
On Tuesday afternoon, Logan and Rackley were found reportedly busking in front of Mast General Store downtown with their dog, unaware of the search efforts underway to find them.
"Two sheriffs approached us and asked us our names, and we were surprised and answered, 'Yeah'," Logan recalled. "And they explained to us they were from Transylvania [and] I want to say Brevard, and they were here to locate missing peoples."
Henderson County law enforcement says tens of thousands of dollars were spent to locate the pair.
"The amount of effort and expense that's gone into this recovery effort is tremendous," Maj. Frank Stout of the Henderson County Sheriff's Office said of the four-day search.
"We've had helicopters in the air for a couple of days," Stout said. "We've had multiple resources from Henderson and Transylvania County, the Upstate of South Carolina. People have given up their time. They've sacrificed their work."
The hikers told News 13 they got separated from family and couldn't backtrack and find them, so they ended up hitching a ride to Asheville. They didn't call family, Logan said, because it slipped his mind.
"I feel, like, obligated to feel sorry, and it's my fault that a whole bunch of people had to work for no reason," he said.
Stout says even though the hikers ultimately didn't need the expansive search, he would respond the same way in the future.
"When we've got lost hikers, we're going to respond with everything we've got in the toolbox, as you would fully expect," Stout said. "That's what the public expects, and that's the effort they will give each time we go out and look for hikers."
Stout says the couple will not face any charges.
These two just bailed on their group. Hitchhiked to a nearby city. And were surprised anyone was looking for them.
They didn't call family, Logan said, because it slipped his mind.
"I feel, like, obligated to feel sorry" WTF???
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Pretty stupid of them not to check in but what are you gonna do?
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WBraun
climber
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Stoopidest dumbsh!ts!!!
They should have fined em both 500 bucks each for being morons for not notifying their family.
These clueless fools have no sense of the amount of hassle and resources it is to mount these types of searches.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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It is not like SAR had to go out and buy a helicopter and hire crew. Those assets are standing by. Sure, there might be some overtime and crew called in and paid. But I question the figures quoted. Great training for them too. Hell, the rescued pair should charge the searchers for the great simulated disappearance.
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WBraun
climber
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That sure is an ignorant way of looking at it since you've never seen the logistics, manpower and resources involved and required in these searches.
There's mutual aid required from other agencies usually also.
Most actual ground searchers are volunteers missing work, driving 100's miles to the search area in their own vehicles, etc etc.
Go on a wild goose chase search sometime and report back here ...
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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I would have to think they would "pay for it" by having to face the family that must have thought they were dead after four days, but well.....that is the family that raised idiots so stupid it wouldn't occur to them there would be serious worry.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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"If the phone doesn't ring, it's me"
-Jimmy Buffet
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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My brother and I were going to climb up to Dinner Ledge. Roper's green book said A2, which seemed pretty tame. We were 13 and 14 years old. Nobody else was going with us.
We were told to be back by "sundown", which to my mind meant about one hour before dark, or about 8 pm.
We go up to Dinner, stare at the Kor Roof, find a big can of Dinty Moore beef stew, eat it and rap off. We walk down, cross the bridge at the walk-in campground, and wander around a bit, looking for little chicks who might be impressed with our well-displayed climbing ropes.
Meanwhile, to Mom "sundown" meant when the sun is no longer visible, which at Lower Pines campground is about 6 pm. She freaks out, calls the rangers, they rally the troops, deputize my uncle, and they all go up the Astroman talus trail.
Because we had used the footbridge at the walk-in camp, and the SAR posse had gone across the river at the road bridge, we didn't cross paths.
The SAR team spent so much time up there, wandering around, looking for bits of skull and bone and blood and brain, it got to be almost dark.
My uncle slips and falls on the talus trail, and smacks his head. The rangers then have to assist him off the trail and back to civilization.
My brother and I get back to the campsite right about 8 pm and get a major ration of sh#t, because we had "caused a tremendous uproar" by not adhering to the vague schedule. Later, the shitstorm hits again when my uncle staggers into camp under the load of a mild concussion: "Your uncle almost died rescuing you!"
My brother and I look at each other, and I think to myself, "Man, adults are WAY f*#ked up in the head. They are like, TRIPPIN' OUT, over nothing. We didn't need rescuing. My uncle needed rescuing. Tie him to the picnic table, and leave us alone. We're just fine."
I guess my point here is that if someone is quick to pull the SAR trigger, then they deserve some (all?) of the blame for a needless rescue. In this case, SAR was summoned about 7 or 7:30 pm to look for people not due back before "sundown".
The next day, with a new understanding of what "sundown" meant, outside its normal meaning, Mike and I went up and did about half of the Royal Arches, and then rapped off. The day after that we climbed to the right side of Bishop's Terrace, to the rap bolts, and then totally chickened out and didn't do the roof crack.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Certainly a measure of ignorance/stupidity on the "lost" pair.
"We've had helicopters in the air for a couple of days," Stout said. "We've had multiple resources from Henderson and Transylvania County, the Upstate of South Carolina. People have given up their time. They've sacrificed their work." Looking for a little sliver of light in this: at least SAR got a good training exercise and some guys/gals got a pass from work.
I'll bet some of them got experience in new country. Now they know the choppers are in good nick.
I'll bet the dog had the best time.
And no one was the worse for wear.
ET phone home!!! You moron.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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I love the smell of trolled duck in the morning
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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The next day, with a new understanding of what "sundown" meant, outside its normal meaning, Mike and I went up and did about half of the Royal Arches, and then rapped off. Uh oh......reminds me of one of my own "transgressions" on Royal Dangers.
More at 11......
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Make 'em work it off on a trail crew. Then they'll learn what work is.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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just let them busk, jeez
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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Jon Beck posted:
It is not like SAR had to go out and buy a helicopter and hire crew. Those assets are standing by. But they are seriously expensive to operate. And SAR operations are risky to those who do them - people are killed regularly.
(Full disclosure: My life was saved by a helicopter rescue.)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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This country has too much SAR and not enough self reliance.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Man and woman, not two men. Got separated from main party. Playing hooky for some nooky?
Nawwwww....I never did that....... ;-}
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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We are going to see a lot more of these rescues as people seek out adventure. The advent of beacons and satellite messengers has not helped. People are now calling for aid when they are tired. Did you read these peoples story? They people were completely unprepared for the multi day hike they went on in preparation for the AT. Might have been a good thing they "got in trouble" when they did, nobody got hurt this time. I suspect they found the hiking to be more difficult than they expected and simply bailed.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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For sure there comes a point where some sort of fine becomes appropriate although making someone foot the whole bill seems more like a financial form of execution than justice. I could definately support a good solid fine for this one.
and YES of course technology will allow for some pretty questionable callouts.. but it will also save lives..Most SAR callouts involve some sort of poor judgement. Most of these should never be fined. We all screw up sometime..and if we are not lucky..then we may be calling for SAR ourselves.
If ever there was a good use of our nations taxes and wealth it is in helping those in need, the lost the injured those in peril far from easy extraction. Regardless the usually avoidable circumstances. I am pretty sure this is the price of freedom for all of us.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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From a 2009 post on pilotsofamerica.com, this one always tickles the funny bone
On the evening of September 23rd, rangers began a search for hikers who repeatedly activated their rented SPOT satellite tracking device. The GEOS Emergency Response Center in Houston reported that someone in the group of four hikers – two men and their two teenaged sons – had pressed the “help” button on their SPOT unit. The coordinates for the signal placed the group in a remote section of the park, most likely on the challenging Royal Arch loop. Due to darkness and the remoteness of the location, rangers were unable to reach them via helicopter until the following morning. When found, they’d moved about a mile and a half to a water source. They declined rescue, as they’d activated the device due to their lack of water. Later that same evening, the same SPOT device was again activated, this time using the “911” button. Coordinates placed them less than a quarter mile from the spot where searchers had found them that morning. Once again, nightfall prevented a response by park helicopter, so an Arizona DPS helicopter whose crew utilized night vision goggles was brought in. They found that the members of the group were concerned about possible dehydration because the water they’d found tasted salty, but no actual emergency existed. The helicopter crew declined their request for a night evacuation, but provided them with water before departing. On the following morning, another SPOT “help” activation came in from the group. This time they were flown out by park helicopter. All four refused medical assessment or treatment. The group’s leader had reportedly hiked once at the Grand Canyon; the other adult had no Grand Canyon and very little backpacking experience. When asked what they would have done without the SPOT device, the leader stated, “We would have never attempted this hike.” The group leader was issued a citation for creating a hazardous condition (36 CFR 2.34(a)(4)).
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WBraun
climber
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When you're at at the top, out food and scared you dial "yosar#551" and ask for pizza and beer to be helicopter delivered to your location ......?
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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"smell of trolled duck in the morning" ... y'all are good, but jon beck stole your bacon
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Yeah, I have to say that as a former SAR guy, I tend to support the idea of making them pay when it's through their own bad decisions and/or bullshit calls rather than a true emergency that couldn't have been avoided.
When I had my seizure on El Cap, I got a bill from YOSAR for $900 for the carry out from the base to the helo. Never asked why, just paid it. Pretty sure it was because they started an IV line on me, but I was more than happy to pay that particular bill for all they do.
The problem is, a lot of these people who aren't...mentally that bright, like these two, wouldn't have the money to pay even if they did get billed.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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I had to look it up:
busk
[buhsk]
1. Chiefly British. to entertain by dancing, singing, or reciting on the street or in a public place.
2. Canadian. to make a showy or noisy appeal.
The Canadian definition reminds me of someone...
;)
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WBraun
climber
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The busking hippies would be fined for being stoopid.
Cited and fined by Taliban Somkin Duck SAR ......:-)
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Seems like a voluntary rescue insurance (a la Chamonix) would be a good option for us to support local SAR operations.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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DMT, because they don't hand out Darwin Awards to corpses cause it doesn't play well.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mr Milktoast writes:
"Why do we think its necessary or even advisable to search for and attempt to rescue folks who trek into wild areas?"
Because if you don't, the missing/stranded guy's stupid friends will form their own rescue party, and then instead of one dead person, there'll likely be more.
As a recreational wilderness user, I don't want to share my space with a corpse when I stop on the trail to enjoy a cold one or hit the Peace Pipe ( or in the case of Forest Falls, a pile of corpses ). Encountering a dead body on the trail has a way of ruining a hike - I speak from experience. If nothing else, S&R is keeping the wilderness clean.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Buddy and I ran Redwood Creek in the pouring down rain during flood stage many years ago.
Stupid us told the farmer (as we were pulling away from his backyard) "...nah, we'll be fine, we've done this kind of thing before. BUT, if you don't hear from us in 4 days you can keep the truck." And off we went chuckling to ourselves.
Dude called the sheriff the next day saying, "...there no way them thar boys is gonna make it."
The following day we're at take-out tying down a kayak on the roof and a sheriff pulls up.
Says he, " Hummm, you boys jess geting offa the river?"
"Why yes sir we sure are!" Boy was it fun!"
"Walllll, we've got a full blown search go'in fer you two fellas. Theres jeeps and folks combing these hills fer ya, mmmmmm, now fer 'bout 24 hurs. Me, I've been down at thar mouth of this here riv look'in fer dee bree."
"Shuck officer we've been fine. Sure sorry about that, and say, is that coffee you got there in your thermos?"
"Sure is son. Wants some?"
"Yes sir and well, guess you ended up with a Bastard search eh?"
"Yep." He says. ""Best kind evr."
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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If charges were assessed then people would be hesitant to call for a rescue and the situation would go from bad to worse, putting everyone in more danger, including SAR. I would prefer to see rescue remain free but to more adequately fund SAR through a small fee on backcountry permits.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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how many of these should we cancel to fund our next bout of middle east adventurism?
glad you're all brushing up on terminology, soon enough we'll all be buskers
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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I think when stupidity is involved there should be some kind of fine involved. Not for the whole cost, but something.
IMO spot device and cell/sat phones have created a lot of unnecessary SAR searches due to a lack of experience or gumbieism.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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I, for two, blame the Millenials.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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IMO spot device and cell/sat phones have created a lot of unnecessary SAR searches due to a lack of experience or gumbieism.
Yea! They need a button for ordering Starbucks or Pizza, but all you have is that emergency button. That would probably fix the problem. Just make sure the costs are in the fine print; Starbucks coffee- $10, Helicopter delivery- $15,000
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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I've been the subject of an unnecessary SAR, and I can't imagine getting fined just because I didn't need to be rescued.
(In our case were caving in Indiana when a tornado came through and all caves in the area flooded, but were we far away outside of the precipitation area.)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Chamonix should be a lesson. Helicopters have been pulling people and bodies off of climbs there for years. People get a false sense of confidence knowing they are only a cell call away from a heli ride.
Taking away that option and making self reliance the only option would lead to fewer and better qualified climbers and only a fraction of the accidents occuring today.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Hey, SLR, what was the cave? That thing near Bloomington with the Volcano Room? Buckners?
I met Dick Blenz a couple of times back in the old days.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Hey, SLR, what was the cave? That thing near Bloomington with the Volcano Room? Buckners? Nah, this was in the far SE corner of Indiana, can't remember the cave name.
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Aerili
climber
Project Y
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Years ago I dated a dude who was an experienced backpacker. He and his buddy got a little lost near the end of a trip out East somewhere when they tried a variation on the hike; it took them an extra day or so to figure out their course and correct it. Since they were technically overdue, someone noticed and called SAR. He said when they saw a chopper flying by, they hid in bushes and then proceeded to sneak all the way out. They came out at the t/h acting all stunned and confused by the assembled search. :-D
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Man, electric lights? WTF? :-) I know got my JustRite around here somewhere.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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I think he is implying you are a meth head
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WBraun
climber
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Burch fits this description.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, (Burch), because they have to say something.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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DMT is the big winner today, could be you tomorrow. Exciting!!!
I am on pins and needles and the needles are full of meth
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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repost from'09, tale dated '01, relationship survives:
new flame, ten years my senior. new digs (raw land), after relocating to the grand canyon. new snow, a bunch of it. enough to alleviate my sensitivity about wrecking stuff with my four wheeler (atc) out in what would be no man's land but for development scams that never took hold.
so i loaded up this great grandma for some serious cross country drift bashing and a rowdy tour of the spread late one afternoon. things got a bit nippy for her as she didn't exactly come complete with adventure gear. so we dropped in on a guy who lived well off the grid, before cell phones etc, and pulled up a couple of chairs in front of his stove while he presented brandy toddy's and regaled us with comedy guitar, harp, keyboard, and percussion. he was actually a professional one man band. everything was soooo groovy. all is well, time to get the little lady home. all of 8 pm.
four daughters, up to within seven years of my own age, plus the county sheriff, had all been mustered to the scene of the disappearance of the victim who was last seen with mystery man, me. my background had been searched to the full extent of the technology. meanwhile we were laying into big gs four wheel drifts alongside the state hiway in front of her place and doubling back to cross them into big loopy eights, all chipper and glee. eventually, turned up the drive to the house and slid up alongside the porch. weee!!
i had never seen a nest of hornets like the ones that came boiling out of that house, lucky for me i was the conservative drinker. miss tipsy turned and announced with a rebel yell, "i'm a missing person!" that was my introduction to the family. actually no introduction needed. all my specs had been duly logged. i slinked away while the slinking was good, and left the team to call off the hounds
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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See how that works?
Nope, explain it some more, I am confused
vvvvvvv God forbid this thread go off track...what are we 'talking' about?
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Yeah it fits here too
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/proposal-cliff-top-facetime_us_5707795de4b03a9e75d40e07
Man Scales Rock Face For Dramatic Proposal, Ends Up In Jail
But at least she said yes!
04/08/2016 07:52 am ET
114
Lee Moran
Trends Editor, The Huffington Post
X
Michael Banks will forever remember the day he asked his girlfriend to marry him. But not for the right reasons.
The 27-year-old from Fresno scaled the southern side of the 581-foot high Morro Rock, off California’s Central Coast, early Thursday, the San Luis Obispo Tribune reports.
Banks used the spectacular backdrop to propose to the love of his life via his iPhone’s FaceTime app. She said yes.
But he took a steeper trail back down the eastern side of the cliff and became stranded on a sheer ledge. A witness heard him yelling for help at 8:30 a.m. and dialed 911.
Video posted online shows a California Highway Patrol helicopter winching him off the rock face. He faces paying for the chopper ride, which could run into the thousands of dollars.
To make matters worse, the hapless Banks was cited for trespassing — because climbing Morro Rock is deemed to be too dangerous, so it’s prohibited.
He was also arrested on suspicion of being under the influence and in possession of methamphetamine, KFSN reports.
Banks was at the San Luis Obispo County Jail on Friday morning, in lieu of posting $10,000 bond.
The City of Morro Bay confirmed in a statement to ABC News that Banks “will be billed for the chopper ride and other related costs.”
“We are glad all involved are OK, and appreciate the hard work of our first responders. Climbing Morro Rock is illegal and dangerous,” the statement added. “We hope folks will choose to view it from below, saving themselves and our fire responders time and money and protecting everyone’s safety.”
Morro Bay Fire Chief Steve Knuckles also stressed to NBC News the dangers of climbing the volcanic plug. “I have been on at least four calls where people have died on the rock,” he said.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Hooblie, you do yer ink (and electrons) justice, sir.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Burchy gives it a 2/10.
The rest of us 8/10. What's the common denominator in the equation, the rest of the world is completely stoopid, or Burchy has an inferiority complex? You decide.
WBraun
climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 07:25am PT
Burch fits this description.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, (Burch), because they have to say something.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Your ego demands that you confirm my observation. And you don't even realize it. Or don't care.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Do you even avy bro??
You might be confusing your Lettermen, I think that was H, might be me that is confused again.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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being assured of having fallen on a person responsible and above all good faith
You shoulda used a pad, bitch! Or fallen on Burchy.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Totally a fool move, right? No wise man would screw that up ;)
yep, yer worthless
Edit;
Oh,yeah... ;)
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Apr 10, 2016 - 07:33am PT
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I'm soft! Dad-bod!
Dad bod. I will have to use this.
Burch, you are going to end up so fat that the handicapped parking signs in your town will be changed from "Van Accessible" to "Fork Lift Accessible". If you get stuck on a ledge SAR will need the Chinook.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Apr 10, 2016 - 10:55am PT
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Thanks Moose, I appreciate it.
Perhaps I should explain my method a bit, so the creatures of the forest like duck and moose would better understand ;)
I'm a busy guy. I like to be effective and efficient with my online stupidity. The more confusion and hurt feelings I can muster with minimal investment on my part, the better.
With this one, poor DMT is confused. He knows he doesn't do meth. Then overwatch was confused because he thought he was clever for a moment. Anyone reading this that messes around with Meth was probably a little insulted, so there's that. Not bad so far. The guy who did the climbing on Moro rock probably lurks and was hoping I wouldn't bring it up (you lurker!). Braun jumps in with his 2/10 nugget of "wisdom." I've not even had my first cup of coffee, and already this day is off to a fantastic start.
See how that works?
cool story brah
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cornel
climber
Lake Tahoe, Nevada
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Apr 27, 2016 - 11:21am PT
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Monty Python...! Now for something entirely different.. Three decades ago My daughter and I were about to go up a moderate on Tacquitz when a Charming Englishman approached us about the possibility of climbing with us. He assured us he could climb 5.11 so we agreed to make it 3. About half way up the climb He spent well over 2 hrs following a 5.8 pitch..we began to realize perhaps this was a bad idea..? Perhaps he had exaggerated his skills. Anyway, The 6 pitch climb which normally would have taken Marisa and myself 3ish hrs tops became an epic. We Finally topped out about 8PM... Making it a 10hr+ climb. Then things got even better. No headlamps we had all left our headlamps, so the walk off took forever.. Back to the truck, fortunately no mishaps at about midnight... Our new friends wife had called the sheriff but fortunately they had yet to get the SAR staged..
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lou
Trad climber
phoenix arizona
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Apr 28, 2016 - 10:54am PT
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To Donini... concerning his points of self-reliance and helicopters.....XACTLY
I work for a big city f.d. an do rescues on this mt. in the middle of the city....
We had four young folks, "stranded " on the summit when it became dark.... didn't bring flashlights... and were too nervous to try and walk back down the trail....
Called 911...they send us.. upon reaching them, they requested a helicopter...refused to follow us down...no one hurt... when we said no, that no one is hurt, and how dangerous and expensive those things are... they became incensed, angry and started name calling.... yay....
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 28, 2016 - 11:14am PT
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too bad you couldn't just walk away and leave the f. u. c. k. s... got to be Camelback yeah? Maybe Pinnacle, both are loaded with total dipshits
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 28, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
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lou, did you feel insensitive and out of touch with reality after being so mean?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Apr 28, 2016 - 03:36pm PT
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One way to handle an unnecessary Search and Rescue is to leave your methamphetamine at home when you venture into the Great Outdoors.
Man Rescued from Morro Rock is arrested on drug charges later the same day
He ascended a line up the middle of this photo to propose to his girlfriend by logging into InstaChatSnapFaceTw#t.
Then, he wandered off to the right, and down onto a loose and dangerous section and became paralyzed from the neck up.
The cops later arrested him on a nearby beach because his methamphetamine chatter and erratic behavior was frightening small children.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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Apr 28, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
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In the second photo I think I recognize a look from some of those seagulls that roughly translates as "Who is this idiot and when is someone going to haul him out of here?"
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 11, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
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Hard to believe that much damage was done by the rotor cutting the rope!
Shoulda seen that coming though with that much loose rope.
Without knowing what that hiker's injuries were I still maintain there are
probably 3x as many helo picks as are really indicated by the severity of
the injury. I was on one where at least 8 of us plus the crew were in
serious danger just to recover a body. A lower was out of the question due
to the abundance of loose rock but this crazy Army dude said, "I got this."
He had to nose the bird into a chimney that left maybe 10' on either side the
whole time blowing a veritable sh!tstorm of rocks onto the teams below.
After getting the pick he had to back out of the chimney. If he had
not been able to do it we had a Plan B ready. It involved a code word to
radio to the ground which meant
"invent some lame excuse to get the family out of sight cause we're gonna
give the body the heave-ho."
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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May 11, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
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Reilly, that video, it was a recovery.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 11, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
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donini said:
Taking away that option and making self reliance the only option would lead to fewer and better qualified climbers and only a fraction of the accidents occuring today.
I do believe in self rescue whenever possible. And have done it. Even if we'd had the option to call for help there certainly was no need.
Sometimes self rescue is not possible or is not a good option. There can be incidents where trying to get out unassisted can lead to a fatal event or when delaying professional care leads to a much worse outcome. Then deploy the personal locator beacon (PLB).
For certain, being lost, tired, thirsty and out of daylight doesn't cut it. Restitution or punishment is called for.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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May 12, 2016 - 03:41am PT
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"Commitment" is a word not fully understood by today's climbers. How many climbers under the age of 30 knows what it means to leave your cell phone at home? BITD we flew onto glaciers and walked into the wilderness with a month's supply of food and no cell phone or radio. You can't be rescued if no one knows where you are.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 12, 2016 - 07:28am PT
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a few absurd stories are somehow meaningful.
You've clearly not worked on a SAR team, let alone read a newspaper regularly.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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May 12, 2016 - 07:32am PT
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Reilly posted Without knowing what that hiker's injuries were I still maintain there are
probably 3x as many helo picks as are really indicated by the severity of
the injury.
Indeed, they are probably overused and their danger should never be underestimated. It's not an easy decision sometimes though. I work in trauma now and even theoretically "minor" injuries like a broken tib/fib or ankle can threaten the limb if not attended by a surgeon in an appropriate amount of time.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 12, 2016 - 07:38am PT
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HDDJ, thank you, the liability threat is what drives most of these although a week or two back
some retard was plucked near me and when I looked at where I could not believe it. He said
he couldn't descend from a hillock two blind kids could descend in a three-legged race. In
this case I think it was that LA County Sheriffs would rather go fly around being 'heros' than
do actual law enforcement.
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WBraun
climber
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May 12, 2016 - 07:43am PT
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Reilly
In the SAR business that is called job security.
You'll get a certain small percentage of retards every year no matter what.
They will appear and one must deal with them.
There's no escape .....
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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May 12, 2016 - 08:03am PT
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perhaps the cops should have presented me with a bill for their services, because I was "foolish?"
Yep...and you can always tell a weak ass troll too because they're always on the opposite side of the general consensus
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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May 12, 2016 - 10:21am PT
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10/10 is the great white whale of ST
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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May 12, 2016 - 10:38am PT
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I live for the memes
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 12, 2016 - 10:44am PT
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Werner, here in the Vast Wasteland Of Dopes the retard rescues are at least 50%.
People around here can't even manage to stay on a 5' wide trail.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 12, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
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I came home with a friend after a night of drinking to find a stranger sleeping on the couch. I woke my other roommate up and asked him if it was his friend. The half asleep roomie's response was "Don't screw with me this late". We all stood there in the living room pondering the situation when the guy pops up and says is this Michigan? We died laughing because Michigan St is nearby, we told him he was in Missouri (I live on Missouri St.) I was mostly pissed at my dog who slept through the whole thing.
Never dawned on me to kill the guy, I guess I am not Trump enough.
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WBraun
climber
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May 12, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
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So much of what one hears along these lines is pure hot air.
So why are you giving off so much hot air yourself ...?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 12, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
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Did I cross post mistakenly at a gun-nut sight?
Uh, no, you posted at an Illiterate Thread Drift Sight.
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| Messages 1 - 81 of total 81 in this topic |
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