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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 4, 2016 - 09:01pm PT
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Is 5.13 qualitatively different from 5.12 and 5.14?
or is it just more distance on a route (of 5.12 sized holds) on slightly steeper terrain?
Haven't asked this question in a long while, and since I can't even hardly climb 5.9 right now, I want to believe that 5.13 is still possible for me?
Is there a good soft 5.13 with big holds in the Bay Area or within 4 hours?
Pics of your favorite 5.13s are legit.
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WBraun
climber
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Carrying all that baggage in your head you'll never get off the ground ......
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
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It is a little heavy.
And I'm a little light duty.
heh
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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a good soft 5.13 with big holds
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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a good soft 5.13 with big holds
Big and soft will need reinforcing.
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overwatch
climber
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Bay area classic...Mt. MaBalls
Edit;
Yep even a geezer can handle it.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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and short.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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If you have to ask........... (I include myself in that category) Although as time goes on some of my old favorite 5.7's and 5.8's are now considered 5.9's and 5.10's.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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I have TOP ROPED one 5.13 in Indian Creek. As a complete expert, I can say 5.13, is just harder than 5.12. Or sometimes not. Thin face, finger cracks, laybacks, overhanging juggy and sequential sport routes, OWs etc, will all feel different. Different crags have different style of climbing and also feel different. :)
As with 5.10 5.11 or whatever, it is a variety of things that can make something 5.13. Some 5.10s are just super sustained 5.9 moves, some are not sustained at all, but have a short boulder problem. I think if one is able to consistently onsight 5.11 to 11+, maybe it is worth finding some 5.13 which suits their style and work on it for several days. See if the moves will make sense, find the personal crux, see if it is possible to overcome it. Is it a boulder problem, putting together a sequence, technique or endurance that is the problem?
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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^ yeah, I really don't get some of the grade inflation on the old moderates. I's especially sad given that many of those routes were done in EB's, PA's, or worse, and before cams. Often, before nuts or kernmantle ropes. Just because it's hard for you, kids, doesn't mean it's not 5.7.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Is there a good soft 5.13 with big holds in the Bay Area or within 4 hours?
Isn't "soft 5.13" an oxymoron?
From what I can tell, they only way you get a 5.13 with big holds is by tilting the camera. From overhanging to severely overhanging. Try Jailhouse.
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snyd
Sport climber
Lexington, KY
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"A number has never climbed anything."
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Well if you look at star ratings on mountain project there was never a 5.13 that wasn't 4 stars............
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Qualitatively: no
Quantitavely: yes
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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5.12 = V4
5.13 = V7
5.14 = V11
5.15 = V14+
Works for sport routes mainly. Go bouldering. Try a few 3 move V7s and see if you can do the moves. If so 5.13 is most likely attainable with enough fitness.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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^ yeah, I really don't get some of the grade inflation on the old moderates. I's especially sad given that many of those routes were done in EB's, PA's, or worse, and before cams. Often, before nuts or kernmantle ropes. Just because it's hard for you, kids, doesn't mean it's not 5.7.
Well, some routes get very slippery with traffic and holds break off. ALSO, climbers at this point in time, travel to different crags and get to sample MUCH more terrain. When you are exposed to more climbs you are able to give a better opinion on the rating of a particular pitch.
It doesn't matter what a first party that climbed the route claimed it to be, it matters what it REALLY is for a party that is trying to onsight it. No one owns the rock. Individuals can't climb the route and change the rating. But I think if a route has seen many repeats and 30 parties that climb it call it a 5.8, even though the FA party said it was a 5.9, with 3 other parties calling it a 5.9, it is likely a 5.8. Makes sense? No one owns the rock. If the FA party climbed the route 5 times and their rating went from 5.9 at first to 5.7+ because they figured out every move, it does not mean the route will feel 5.7+ for someone trying to onsight.
When I personally do FAs, it is usually in the backcountry and I have only one chance to climb a particular pitch. I do my best to climb it and figure out the moves, give it an honest rating. My partner does the same, than we give an opinion. A lot of the time, we are off by half a grade, at times we are right on. If the route sees five repeats by competent climbers and there is a consensus that is not in line with our opinion, we are totally open to change the rating, as it is supposed to be an honest suggestion of what difficulties to expect. I don't want to sandbag people and I don't want them to think it is soft, so usually give an honest opinion and base it on popular climbs of similar style.
"A number has never climbed anything."
+1 CAN CLIMB or CAN'T CLIMB, have to get better. :)
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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on many 13s the hardest moves aren't any harder than v3, just a lot of it and super-pumpy with no real rests. think RRG.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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12+, that's a 5.13- brah. And 5.13- is a SOLID 5.13. F-yeah!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Supertopo ponders hard climbing - hilarious...!
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Impaler
Social climber
Oakland
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Munge, why worry about it if you are not fit right now? Work your way up, get in shape and then try a few routes. There are definitely a couple of routes in the vicinity that might be good to try first, but they are not "easy", they are still 5.13. They might have big holds, but not the whole way up and they will also be very pumpy to the point where you have to force yourself mentally to not let go when you think you can barely hold on. In the end, it's a good idea to just spend a day and go try one, see how many moves you can do and what you need to work on to be able to redpoint one. Here are some that I think are more manageable in the sense that the individual moves aren't too hard or they are not that sustained (all are 13a):
Fugitive, Jailhouse - mostly huge jugs, but very overhanging and with big dynos in between. Lots of rests, but still extremely pumpy. Hardest move maybe V4 or 5, but lots of them on the route.
Who moved the stone, Goldwall - V6ish awkward boulder problem on chipped holds, relatively easy second 1/2. Kind of shitty, but doesn't make you that tired since the crux is down low.
Warp Factor, Donner - short, power endurance, consistent V3-V4 moves with no rest for 50 ft. Hardest move no harder than V4.
Slim Pickens, Donner - 2-3 move boulder problem on decent edges off a good rest (knee bar). Some crack climbing involved.
Naked and Disfigured, Mickey's - easy first 1/2. Then a couple V4ish moves back to back to back, then big holds that are far appart. Heartbreaker last move. Hard to put it all together, but fun to try.
Desperate Kneed, Lost world - almost vertical and not that pumpy. About 12a or b to the last bolt, then a tricky sequential boulder problem on very shitty feet (or knee). Might be a really good route to try for someone who's not very strong, but has great technique. All rests are great - you can just stand on your feet.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Yes it is. Some people used to chip holds on 5.13
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Juggy at the top, not so much below. I think it's v2 to v3 to v4, or something like that... just climb what you can, work a few harder problems, bouldering is good for exploring limits.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
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For the folks that know me, I'm really a "any day on stone is a great day if we all come back healthy" kind of guy, but getting my second in my life soft tissue injury that prevented climbing for a long time, you get some good perspective.
Some real nice, real responses, and some good hilarity. :)
Thx Impaler, some good routes to think about there while I work up the fitness and rehab the shoulder. I'd pass on anything chipped, but Desperate Kneed sounds really intriguing.
Got my eye on a steep granite hard project once the snow melts up on SPH.
Keep your stoke up!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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5.12 = V4
5.13 = V7
5.14 = V11
5.15 = V14+
Works for sport routes mainly. Go bouldering. Try a few 3 move V7s and see if you can do the moves. If so 5.13 is most likely attainable with enough fitness.
Wow, sounds easy! I've pulled a fews moves on some V7s! I am on my way.
But seriously, good post.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Mungie, get yourself out to Maple, grades so soft you don't need a rope ;)
But seriously, the closest you'll ever get to those juggy gym .13s.
As for the bigger number question, not much to add, different places, different styles, means I don't invest a lot of rhought into it.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Got my eye on a steep granite hard project once the snow melts up on SPH.
Take me along brah. I need a hard single pitch project, somewhere near by... I guess I sort of screwed up the opportunity to get with the program and climb at Goldwall this winter in favor of ice/more mixed.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Since I've never led anything harder than 12– sport (with many many falls), I'm definitely not qualified to pass judgement on the original question.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Some days I think "yes", others "no". I think I'm missing context.
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RyanD
climber
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5.12 = V4
5.13 = V7
5.14 = V11
5.15 = V14+
Works for sport routes mainly. Go bouldering. Try a few 3 move V7s and see if you can do the moves. If so 5.13 is most likely attainable with enough fitness.
^^^
This is good tips.
You probably need to consider what your strengths are in climbing and find the route that suits you.
Myself, I know I'll do better on routes that are at my limit that have bouldery or technical cruxes because I am more experienced bouldering than I am on routes with endurance cruxes. I don't avoid either type of routes and generally just try and climb on the nicest looking lines on the most perfect rock- but knowing where my strengths are helps me decide what to climb and when. As well it helps me to know how much time to invest on a particular climb before it goes on the project shelf marked "come back when you are more fit, powerful, stronger fingers, skinnier, grown up, etc.".
I'm not chasing grades these days though(no grades in our gym) :-D
I'd say put a rope down a few different ones and check out the moves and see what gets you psyched, then get strong for that route based on how it climbs and commit to the prajjjjjjjjjikt !!!
Find one that is easy to work, by yourself if possible. Dog the sh#t out of it. Break it into moves/sequences/sections then start taking red point burns. The process could take some time but enjoy the progress as it comes, and goes lol. Stick with it, rest lots, have fun.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Years ago 5.13 was considered V9, like my hold-eliminate problem (1959) on Red Cross Rock at Jenny Lake. Using all holds available it was V7 by consensus. The V-ratings were applied much later than the initial ascent.
Historical tidbit: In the mid 1950s Chouinard told me that many of the CA climbs rated 5.9 were actually climbs consisting of a linked series of 5.8 moves.
Just proves my point that you have to climb in your own period and not compare across the bridge of time.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2016 - 08:57pm PT
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Exactly! That's why I avoid 5.9+ like the plague. :)
Trashman, you're onto something there. Maple!
Vittles, after the thaw, LW is on.
May try some slab Sunday if the shoulder holds up.
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