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Old_Duffer
Trad climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 4, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
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I originally liked the free for all atmosphere of the forum but now it is just too weird for me. The people who post climbing adventures, questions, gear related or climbing history should have their own forum to explore climbing. Let the rest post about politics, their own neurotic trolling efforts or who got banned or whatever else. If we want to go there; we can.
Why do those of us interested in climbing have to continue to wade through a cesspool in the meantime?
My liberty is now encroached upon by others; splitting allows for all to enjoy their liberty to explore whatever topic they like. Be honest, Supertopo was founded based on climbing. Let's allow those of us who are here for the climbing to enjoy each other's contributions.
What do you think ?
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WBraun
climber
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Old_Duffer I totally agree and suggested exactly what you did many times.
These people here who post about politics, their own neurotic trolling efforts or who got banned or whatever else are the ones keeping your idea from happening.
They're insane ......
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oh you duffers, what Tami said....
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Its nice having all the crankloon topics mixed in with everything else.
It's like the real world, one big cluster f&%k.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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There are already tabs up at the top, for Forum, Route Beta, Trip Reports, Gear Reviews. Use them.
You'll be back here soon enough....hahahahahaahaha!!!!
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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actually relatively little climbing content on here. Wading through the other stuff takes too much work.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Been suggested many times, thankfully has never happened.
First of all it shouldn't be THAT hard to read the thread titles and only click on climbing threads. Unless it's your will power that's a problem.
Secondly climbing threads get polluted with politics and other thread drift all the time. No one wants to police that.
Third a thread like "sexism in climbing" or "best climber's vehicle" is that climbing or other?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Are there any Goldilocks men that want on ST without having it just rite?
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nathanael
climber
CA
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those who say 'just read the titles and click what you want'
I don't visit hourly, I'd like to come and be able scan through 30 climbing related topics that have had posts in the last couple days and see if any are of interest. As it is, to see 30 climbing related topics I'd have to hit "next page" twice and read 60 unrelated thread titles because it seems the ratio is about 2-1.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Easiest way to support what everyone wants requires very little development work: implement a tag mechanism:
1. Author and readers assign tags to a thread
2. Abusive authors and readers can be voted down or have their tagging privileges revoked.
3. People can customize their view by whitelisting or blacklisting certain tags.
implementation: add a new table to DB with 3 fields: thread, tag value, tagger (userid). Will also need a few foreign keys to the user table: user_status (or whatever tracks when users are disabled), maybe a new user field for tagging status (if they are not disabled but just have tagging priileges suspended). Then when a user is banned or loses tagging privileges, their contribution to the tags associated to each thread is removed in real-time as part of processing the query for tags from each user. If the person is reinstated, their tags can be reintroduced, no data lost.
Biggest challenge I see is the processing load on the system- right now they can have a single simple query to display the top page, run a script that processes this every few seconds or caches the SQL query results, etc.... This stops the SQL DB from being hit every time a user loads a page. But with tagging, now you have thousands of users with separate tags in their queries, and you lose the caching. Requires more CPU and memory to handle the same traffic load.
But if you narrow it down, maybe specify a series of 5-10 predefined tags, then you can still cache the queries for different permutations, and balance user-customization with system performance.
HTH
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John M
climber
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It would be easy enough to keep the forum the way it is ...
and add a climbing tab.
Just keep all threads on the open forum, but when a thread is started, the poster has to label it "climbing related" or " other".
All threads go in the open forum.
Those climbing related also get put in the climbing tab.
Easy peasy..
they already do it with trip reports. They go in the open forum and in the trip report section so that they are easy to find.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Go to
Summit post
Rock climbing.com
Mtn Project
Set up just the way you like 'em
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John M
climber
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I've been saying it for close to 10 years. I'm glad someone finally gets it.
Edit:
Jaybro.. with my suggest the main page would stay the same. Unlike those other forums.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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How would you classify this thread?
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John M
climber
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it wouldn't matter if a few get improperly placed. General consensus would happen. And we could report improperly place threads just like we report spam. And then when someone with the power to deal with it shows up, they could move it.
The whole world is mostly insane Werner. The forum is just a microcosm of the world.
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WBraun
climber
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jeebus the bonehead says -- "These people" is CMac.
No it's not.
It's boneheads like you .....
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John M
climber
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CMac listens to what the general consensus is. Its a slow process, but he listens. For years people have been asking for change, but the majority shouted it down. No change they kept saying.
trip reports were added as a tab.
Now climbing content could be treated the same way if the majority would just try to understand what I am proposing.
the main page would NOT change under my proposal. Except for the addition of a climbing tab.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Splitting would seriously cut down on page clicks, which is an advertising issue.
However, I think there is a workaround - Offer the option to "design" our feed. List the categories(basically those already there, but add "Climbing Discussion and "Other Discussion," as well as "All." Let people tick All or some mixture.
I think this would still allow a decent number for advertising purposes, since as was mentioned - many of us cannot help but look at the trainwreck threads.
For those who DON'T want to see the trash, the option to easily avoid it ay very well offset the diminished numbers of visits, since some of those people leave the site, or at least visit less often than they would if they could be confident they'd have a better experience.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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There is enough real estate on the screen to add three or four new tabs.
Why not do it and call them Door1, Door2, ... Doorn.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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*
Sometimes it's a wild ride..just go with the flow..
[Click to View YouTube Video]
They should have taken the paddles ..(-;
edit: guyman, yup..(-;
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Nita.... Did I hear somebody say "Here, Hold My Beer" ???????
Go to
Summit post
Rock climbing.com
Mtn Project
Set up just the way you like 'em
Jay Bro says it all....
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Dickly
Social climber
KY
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How can people not love the late 90s format here???
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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No that anything ever changes around here other than somewhat random thread moderation and banishment but...
My official vote is split the forum or allow a "climbing" label. I'm really good at wading through all the crap and avoiding the click, but it get's really annoying when they outnumber the climbing related threads and there's more and more BS to scroll through all time. It's out of control.
The idea about keeping it a open forum but simply adding a climbing tab to cull all the politics and other non-climbing crap away if you don't want to look at it is excellent.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Remember, since the BD carabiner recall thread is Not a climbing thread, it would be consigned to the "Other" thread if the splitter splinter faction got it's way!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Did the "split brains" prevent the spread of the seizures?
Today’s therapies for seizures are more advanced than those of the mid-20th century, and split-brain surgery is now exceedingly rare—Michael Miller, a neuroscientist at the University of California at Santa Barbara who did graduate work with Gazzaniga, told me the last one he heard of was performed around 10 years ago. Many of the split-brain patients that Gazzaniga, Sperry, and their colleagues studied have passed away.
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Old_Duffer
Trad climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2016 - 06:59pm PT
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So that works. Great idea, John M. How about it Cmac; a Climbing tab then ? More clicks for you, a climbing forum for climbers and an "all" tab for all the "wackjobs, politards and crankloons."
Well, at least, I increased if not improved my vocabulary today !
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RyanD
climber
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Well, problem solved. Sound reasoning and excellent ideas everyone.
Let's just sit back and wait for it to get fixed, shouldn't be long now.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Where does the Mind thread go? Only 6 people even know what the hell that is.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Where does the Mind thread go? Only 6 people even know what the hell that is.
Exactly why it shouldn't change, there would have to be more rules and moderators to oversee the forum segregation. That'd be rad!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I have been requesting FOR YEARS that the forum be split into two places:
1. Climbing Stuff
2. Non Climbing Stuff
I have also volunteered my time and service to help make it happen.
My request and my offer remain valid.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Leave it alone been working fine why change it...
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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How would you categorize the happy birthday Royal Robbins thread?
(And stop criticizing the Mind thread or placing it in the politard group. Admittedly it gets out of control on occasion, but it can be illuminating at times, and for some of us it sure beats the latest tediously dull debate about bolt placement.)
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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It's a smorgasbord. Take what you want. Don't bitch about what's laid out there for someone else to savor.
Some people like the razzing, tale tales, histories, herstories, legends, simple and often intimate tales, sh#t talking, joking, chain rattling, chain jerking, sweet tips, cajoling, appreciation and support for the middle of the road and even beginner climber (especially when it's so genuinely given by someone who's been there and done that) - a mix of every imaginable belief and perspective all brought together by the common appreciation for being outside and tasting a little fear, sweat, discomfort, and the joy of overcoming yourself.
One of the beauties of sitting around a campfire after a day of climbing is passionate and authentic conversation about a big mix of many things with even some of it even being about climbing.
There is definitely some crazy in the mix, but if you're real and respectful, pull up a chair.
When I was younger and everything was climbing and climbing was everything all I wanted to do and talk about was climbing I was such an incredible bore! Now I'm not quite as insufferable (as long as you don't ask my wife!). If I want to go back to that there are climbing sites that specialize in that narrow range.
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RyanD
climber
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I like your post Mark, but disagree with the smorgasbord analogy.
It is more like a potluck.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Yeah, potluck!! Everyone brings something to the potluck. Thanks!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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who is going to enforce these new rules about what constitutes a climbing thread. CMac wouldn't want to waste his time. A volunteer, any volunteer, ends up making decisions that will piss someone off. One of the things I find really appealing about this forum is lack of moderators. Once in a while someone who deserves it gets whacked. Works for me.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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This thread reminds me of an old joke.
A guy comes home from work and says:
"Hi honey, how was your day?"
His wife replies:
"Oh honey, I had the most obscene phone call. This pervert went on for two hours saying the most disgusting things."
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Climbers are people too. Well, most of them.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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From the OP My liberty is now encroached upon by others; splitting allows for all to enjoy their liberty to explore whatever topic they like.
Hey look. It's another political thread ;-)
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Dingus for Supreme Moderator Overlord!
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Freebird
I may be a washed up neverwasbeen but I have always considered climbers and adventure sports types to be at the fringe of society, unwilling to be molded and conformed. Most of the climbers I have known were usually unwilling or unable to allow themselves to be boxed into a societal role by others, or found turmoil and struggle with the expectations from others at school and work, and with family, girlfriends/boyfriends, and spouses.
The key being that we (at least myself) do not like to be controlled by society and others, some of whom appear to have the least amount of control over their own social situations or emotions.
The idea of controlling the postings, OT subject matter, and quality of climbing and trip reports on a climbing website forum seems overly 'controlling' for persons who read and post from this demographic.
Personally, I fell onto this website forum at the behest of friend who told me about some postings and subject matter that related directly to me. I found ST to be informative and entertaining, connected with old friends and acquaintances, and enjoyed posting some climbing content along with exhibiting some of my goofy stories and poetry which have only come to me over the past several years.
Most of what I post are poems and some opinions, some lurking and stupid comments, with an occasional memoir or story on my late climber brother or one of my own climbing memories.
If I thought I were going to have my posts directed to one kind of topic thread or another by a moderator, I would cringe and take umbrage, and be less likely to post at all. I abhor the thought of such regulation.
-bushman
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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First of all it shouldn't be THAT hard to read the thread titles and only click on climbing threads. Unless it's your will power that's a problem.
The problem is that OT threads (especially politics and gear reviews) cause the climbing posts to get lost.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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lol
it is incredibly strenuous to click that 'previous posts' button.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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As long as we're putting forth suggestions unlikely to be heeded, how about this:
Neither threads nor posts can be deleted
After posting, you have 5 minutes to edit (which could include replacing all text with "Never mind"). After 5 minutes, what you posted stays. If you repent of what you said, you add another post - or thread - admitting you were wrong, apologizing, etc. But you don't get to revise history long after the fact.
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overwatch
climber
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Nah, just leave it. If you don't like it, there you are not liking it.
Edit:
A successful, although stupid, troll.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Rockclimbing.com????? Now THAT's funny.
Here's about the latest post from Rockclimbing.com, all credit to the author, iknowfear (thanks, hope you don't mind):
Users: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. it's dead, that's what's wrong with it!
Owner: No, no, it's uh,...it's resting.
Users: Look, matey, I know a dead website when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
Owner: No no it's not dead, it's, its restin! Remarkable site, the rc.com, idn'it, ay? Beautiful threads and databases!
Users: The threads and databases don't enter into it. It's stone dead.
Owner: Nononono, no, no! it's resting!
Users: All right then, if it's restin', I'll wake him up! (shouting at the site) 'Ello, Mister rc.com website! I've got a lovely fresh cuttle picture for you if you show...
(owner hits the site)
Owner: There, it moved!
Users: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the site!
Owner: I never!!
Users: Yes, you did!
Owner: I never, never did anything...
Users: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO POLLY!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!
Users: Now that's what I call a dead website.
Owner: No, no.....No, it's stunned!
Users: STUNNED?!?
Owner: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! climbing sites stun easily, major.
Users: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That website is definitely deceased, and when you purchased it not 'alf a year ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged redesign.
Users: Look, I took the liberty of examining that website when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the first place was that the threads had been NAILED there.
[.]
...Users: it's not pinin'! it's passed on! This site is no more! It has ceased to be! it's expired and gone to meet its maker! it's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the perch it'd be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now 'istory! it's off the twig! it's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-SITE!!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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the development and maintenance of the ST website, and the Forum in particular, has to have very low overhead... STForum probably isn't a big money maker...
so the only sort of low-impact mod would be to split the Forum, but without a means of moderating what thread goes where the subForums just tend to look the same...
my feeling is that allowing the STForum members to select their own views would work best... and as far as I know, it's already a possibility without having to alter anything at all, by using third-party apps, or the low tech solution, just don't click on those threads.
anything more involved is a non-starter
if you want to see "climbing" related posts, go to the search bar and type "climb," it will turn up the most recent posts with that word somewhere in the post... a good start.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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We're making this awfully difficult; needlessly in my opinion. We already have trip reports, route beta, gear reviews, etc. as tabs. Each thread in those subsections of the forum is self-selected by the original poster.
How hard would it be to add another tab for "climbing?" The OP simply denominates the thread as "climbing," the way we do for trip reports, and away we go. Original sin will keep the classification from perfection, but it would make it easier for those who wish to escape my opinions, or those of my opinionated colleagues on this forum, on topics clearly unrelated to climbing.
Otherwise, they're forced to go through the tremendous effort that Ed suggests, or else overuse their hand and fingers manipulating the mouse.
John
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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who is going to enforce these new rules about what constitutes a climbing thread.
Me. I'll do it.
DMT
OK, quick vetting process.
Where would you place the following thread, Climbing, or Other?
 Crankloon Central
Best. Beer. Ever.
Worst poster on SuperTopo
Brace yourselves Moab... they're coming....
You to can stay at Majestic Yosemite Hotel
Some might be obvious/easy. Others, not so much.
But it's funny this comes up now, when the front page has more climbing content than just about any time I can remember.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Or a HIDE THREAD button...
That's the direction I'd like to see. Don't change to whole forum, just put more control in the hands of each user for what they'd like to see.
I'd add a HIDE MEMBER button too.
But both these take time to implement so for a free forum that doesn't make much/any money I don't see it happening.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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This is the most unattractive and repellent website in climbing:
www.rockclimbing.com/forum/
I left the site several years ago and won't return. By contrast ST displays all its threads instantly and one can easily pick and choose. Just my opinion.
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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All I care about is: On which side does the "birds" thread lie.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Taco nOoBs wantin' to censor campfire rhetoric.
Btw this thread would be in the "other" category.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Pud wins the thread!!!!
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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You've heard the term "divide and conquer" . .
For lack of a better word __ F*#K tHE OP !11
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Really, it is time to split the forum into CLIMBING or OTHER
NEVER!
Other climbing forums do that. Here we enjoy freedom.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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I'm against any and all changes or progress to the forum. I'm against it I tell you, against it! Don't let other people assimilate you into the collective. Always oppose the opposition, it might be the only inappropriate last bastion of logic and reason remaining to the the illogical and unreasonable.
Don't be a tool, a pin, a stooge, and a miscreant in the name of the latest trend. Fight the power.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Did you say collective? The secret is out now....
Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated!
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