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ground_up
Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
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Nov 30, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
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Bad news...dang. Sketchy down there.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 30, 2015 - 01:07pm PT
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Sinaloa - the belly of the beast. Methinks they did little research.
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Nov 30, 2015 - 04:02pm PT
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What a bummer
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 30, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
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Bummer. the article that i just read said they were driveing from edmanton to some surfing place in mexico. Seems they did not get very far after getting off the ferry. makes it sound like driveing to portero like some of my friends did a decade ago is no longer an option.....
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east side underground
climber
paul linaweaver hilton crk ca
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Nov 30, 2015 - 05:17pm PT
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very sorry to hear this condolences to family and friends. I've driven the entire coast of mainland mex it used to be such a cool place but since the drug wars it is too dangerous to be on the road. fly in, hang close to your break, don't party or drive at night. I've travelled a bit and i;d say mexico is the most dangerous country ive been to
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Nov 30, 2015 - 06:07pm PT
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The article speculated that they may have tried to camp/ sleep in the van on the side of the Hwy.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Nov 30, 2015 - 06:36pm PT
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My friend, camping in Baja, had a man come charging into his Van with a machete. Luckily the shot gun he had with him intersected the culprit before he could do any damage. No shots fired just fuc@#ng quick thinking.
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east side underground
climber
paul linaweaver hilton crk ca
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Nov 30, 2015 - 06:47pm PT
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seems they landed in sinaloa at 10;30 pm and left imediatley for guadalahara.....bad move... never never drive at night and never bivy , find a trailer park or hotel......a shotgun in mex? pretty bold I assume they had a hunting permit get caught with a firearm in mex = prison. the check points on the roads are looking for guns....... edit : such a bummer I've meet a lot of travling aussie surfers some of the coolest folks you'll ever meet , they were from west oz and maybe didn't really understand how dangerous mex can be
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Nov 30, 2015 - 06:55pm PT
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Mtnmun-
If you take a gun to Mexico, you're 1,000 times more likely to have a Federal test his cattle prod on your testicles than have your friend's alleged Dirty Harry moment.
I've surfed in Sinaloa (flew into Culiacan). I had a baaaad feeling about that place.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Nov 30, 2015 - 07:18pm PT
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Condolonces to family and friends, I hope the bodies found in the van are just two other f*#ked up cartel guys.
My new bride and I went on a 3 week honeymoon to Mexico last May. We visited Guanajuato, San Miguel de Allende and then traveled by bus and car to Tabasco stopping in DF on the way, and finished off in Playa del Carmen. I was surprised to learn from family how bad it really is down there in certain areas. At this point it's pretty much stick to the main areas that have a lot of security presence unless you know someone to travel with down there that knows the area.
We went to Palenque one day and after my cousin parked his car we were walking away and I see this dude put his wind shield wipers up. Later he tells me that he had to pay him to protect his car or it or we would get F&*d up when we went to leave. It was only 10 bucks, but that whole area is controlled by cartels. The guides, kids selling stuff and tour buses are paying the cartel somehow. Not all ruins or other cool sites are like this, but The Chiapas/Tabasco area has a lot of cartel action.
My other cousins rich neighbor was kidnapped all movie style. He has a few guards and high wall around his big house. A lady is driven up in fancy car, dressed the part and the guard lets her in. She is walking up to the door and he comes out with his daughter on the way to take to school. The lady calmly tells him he needs to go with her now or 2 cars carrying men with guns will shoot the place up. He is not seen for a month and after paying the ransom is returned but leaves town like many people with money are, unless they can afford a lot of security. I could not believe the security my cousins had to have and still knew they would probably get broken in to. I heard many more crazy stories from my family, hell, one of my own cousins now ex-girlfriends Dad was kidnapped. They paid he was returned, but not before they through him out the side of a moving truck with his hands all tied. He was found a couple day later and still alive.
This is not most towns in Mexico, but if you are going to travel like these guys, and in less well traveled parts of Mexico. Do your research.
We will go back, we had a great, I love my people, had a great time and got many awesome deals on killer rooms and ate like royalty. It obviously helped a lot that I, or I should say, we have family there. But as long as you research where you are going and don't travel back pack or road trip style through shitty areas, you will be fine. There are a lot of unknown beautiful areas of Mexico that just are not advertised as much or are just now becoming more wisely known, many awesome climbing areas that are unclimbed. Guanajuato, San Luis Potosi areas is very nice as well as the state of Veracruz. In Yucatan we used the city of Merida as home base and traveled by car around the peninsula seeing ruins, cenotes, caves, etc..as safely as I person can drive in Mexico ;). But we never felt in danger. As always, be smart, don't drink to much and get caught somewhere dicey, and try and talk to the locals as much as you can. Even those that seem like they don't speak English, do. They know they will have more opportunities speaking English so many try even if they are not in the hospitality industry.
Edit:
As much as it really is a bad idea to travel with a gun, knife, etc.., in Mexico. Many Mexicans have guns. They would rather live and explain or pay someone off than get taken out by a thug.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Nov 30, 2015 - 07:49pm PT
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Really heartbreaking for the friends and family of the surfers.
They certainly knew, their families too, about the dangers of transcontinental driving, especially through Mexico.
Hard to say what went wrong, it could've been anything- wrong place wrong time, they could've done something wrong, who knows. Even the most savvy experienced Mex travelers have had problems.
I traveled a lot in Baja when there was a lot of sh¡t going down, lots of old dogs saying they'd never go back, lots of hype...much of it deserved.
Usually the deeper you go, the safer it is, no matter where you are. Country people are better than city folk.
"Bad roads bring good people. Good roads..."
Keeping a low profile is crucial though.
One thing I've always believed was "don't be scared", even when you're in a sketchy zone.
Predators smell fear.
Activate my cloaking device and just cruise.
deep Yucatan solo
RIP traveling surfers.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Nov 30, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
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My friend was the strong man in the Mexican circus back in the early 70's, that was not a recent story.
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Nov 30, 2015 - 07:56pm PT
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Agreed Jefe' Those are solid words
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Nov 30, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
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I used to frequent Baja. I don't know the stats, but I wouldn't go there now.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Nov 30, 2015 - 08:09pm PT
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Common sense, low profile, smiles, and respect only go so far when you're deep in a narco zone, though.
F*#king sucks.
Most of us will agree that Mexico is one of the most beautiful places/culture/people.
Horrific sh¡t happens everywhere.
We still paddle out at sharky spots...
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Nov 30, 2015 - 08:15pm PT
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We said Adios to Mexico many years ago. Too many bad experiences after years of cruising and fun.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Nov 30, 2015 - 08:17pm PT
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How awful. I used to drive and bus around down there all the time in what is now crazy narco land, often doing all the stuff you are not supposed to do. Not now! It's a shame cause it is such a great country with great people.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Nov 30, 2015 - 08:27pm PT
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Very say outcome.
I wouldn't assume that the surfers knew how dangerous Mexico is. I have heard with my own ears an adventurous Canadian female (who had traveled extensively in MX) say how much safer MX is than the US!
For all we know, the surfers heard the typical media hype about how dangerous the US is (we do have a hell of lot of guns) and heard about how gun ownership is illegal in MX, gunned it through the US to get away from all the right-wing gun-owning whackos ASAP, and let their guard down in MX.
And of course a crime like that could happen in the US too.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Nov 30, 2015 - 09:04pm PT
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That kind of crime could happen In America...? Packing my bags for Mexico...
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Nov 30, 2015 - 09:22pm PT
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Understood Mtnmun- That makes sense :)
Americans were carrying flare guns and pepper spray for protection but the Feds got on that.
Now some carry the wasp spray that shoots 20 feet as a lat resort.
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rbob
climber
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Nov 30, 2015 - 09:49pm PT
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What is the latest with respect to Baja - camping/surfing? It seems like once you get south of tijuana things settle down a bit to make things reasonable and perhaps even fun.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Nov 30, 2015 - 10:43pm PT
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Very sad. Was down there literally ladt week on a dirtbike adventure. We hung with some Australian surfers one night and I cringed when reading the story. We had a fantastic trip, and it was my first time down there. So terrible when good things go bad. My condolences.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Murder of strangers in USA is incredibly rare. our inner city murders are mostly young kids who know or know of each other. Our country murders are mostly domestic murder suicides. random tourists being murdered would be a huge news story and super rare.
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couchmaster
climber
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What a horrible story, my best to the family and friends.
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Gunkie
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2015 - 06:10am PT
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I had a good friend who lived in Poway and I would meet him for Baja surf adventures. This was late 80's early 90's. We mostly surfed Baja Norte... K38, Baja Malibu, Miguel's, etc. One long weekend we made it down to Quatro Casas (sp?) and surfed until the swell died. On the way out, just before the highway we ran into a gang claiming to be Federales. They had automatic weapons and some sort of uniforms, but were very calm and calculating. They ransacked our vehicle; pulled everything out and took the $20 USD we left on the driver's seat. Then they left. I suspect they were early cartel members looking for a easy drug score or cash cache. We had neither. I suspect today, we might not have been so lucky.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Damn. Big swaths of MX appear to be a failed narco state. Creepy. I've never been down there, and these stories certainly don't add encouragement. And that mariachi band executed and stuffed down a well in Petrero Chico? I guess things are okay there now? One excellent book on that world: God's Middle Finger by Richard Grant.
BAd
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east side underground
climber
paul linaweaver hilton crk ca
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micronut, that photo of you at quatro casas ( crappy wave, great hang) sure brings back lots of great memories. Like most young so-cal surfers those trips into baja were my first real surf adventures , stopping in ensenada for cases of beer and handfuls of bottle rockets. we would camp in that same spot, and longboard the little reef right under the cliff, while the boys would stand on the cliff and fire bottle rockets at you while you rode the ankle snappers. those trips were the kindling that lit the fire which kept pushing me further south. I'll still travel to mexico . P.S. we acually met once in the Lembert parking lot , I was admiring your new truck while drinking coffee in the AM cheers
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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A bunch of you are relating Baja stories. Mainland = different deal.
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WBraun
climber
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What's a mind blower is you can't even go play in the water without some inhuman aszhole coming to kill you.
For what?
Just to kill you. They're not human.
And eKat Bev Johnson packed the heat too.
Hoover made her conceal carry .....
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east side underground
climber
paul linaweaver hilton crk ca
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capt you are right mainland is a dfferent experince, but baja has a few rough spots as well San Quintin is a farming zone with lots of workers from mainland be very careful in this area, also EL Rosario is notorious for car break- ins.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oh yeah. Los Pallilos (The Toothpicks) house is about a mile from me. Last time I checked CV was still in the U.S. Can it last?
Members of Mexican drug gang are convicted in San Diego killings
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/17/local/la-me-drug-murders-20120517
The rampage alarmed authorities in San Diego, which had been largely spared of spillover violence. From 2004 to 2007, the gang is believed to have slain nine people and attempted to kill a Chula Vista police officer by firing high-caliber rounds into his vehicle.
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ROtotheC
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Has anyone been down Potrero Chico way lately? I have a few friends trying to talk me into going over the holidays. Been nervous to head back down since that mariachi band stuff went down.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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The cartels are direct consequences of the "War" on (some) drugs going back to the Rockefeller laws in NY and then amped up by Reagan and a cavalcade of elected cowards from both parties. They were aided and abetted by the prison guard and police unions and by the commercial corrections industry.
What you sow so shall your neighbors reap, it seems.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Anyone interested in the cartel world should check out Don Winslow's two epic pot boilers on the drug wars.
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couchmaster
climber
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The BBC is reporting that the Mexican police have arrested 3 SUSPECTED shitheads in the connection with this attack.
"The three belong to a criminal gang in the north-western state of Sinaloa, police said. They confessed to killing the two tourists when the pair fought back during an attempted robbery."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-35013451
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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One of my best friend's sister in law was on a beach in Baja years ago with her girlfriend- both were beaten and raped.
My next door neighbor was attacked & robbed while camping in Baja- fractured his skull with a pipe.
Friends of a friend were surfing in Baja and were robbed, and had their van & gear burned in front of them.
I was robbed at gunpoint after climbing El Gran Trono Blanco back in the mid-90's. That was my last time to Mexico.
What amazes me is how people can have lots of stories about other friends having such violence happen to them in Mexico, but somehow think they are going to be safe. As jefe said, no matter what your experience level in travelling, there are variables that are not controllable.
Any new updates on this anywhere? It doesn't sound good, whatsoever. Best wishes to the family and friends of these adventurers.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I'd go hiking on the North Slope (of Alaska) wearing a prosciutto windbreaker
before I'd go camping in Mexico.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Good morning from the front lines!
This is my hood- checking the surf a few hundred yards from the Mexico border just this morning- looking South at the Tijuana Bull Ring and one of the most murderous cities on the planet.
From our friendly neighbor to the South, mountains of trash, feces and an occasional corpse wash up on our beaches.
But still; I always forfeit to the dreams of the surf, food, beer, wild landscapes and amazing climbing.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Baja- There's not one human in that landscape.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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I got into a tussle deep in the Sierra Madre, hours from any paved road, back in the late 80's. We were exploring Copper Canyon and other areas for BASE sites. A long story. Good one, though. I wrote it down. Two guys with knives tried to rob us. We got away, but not before this huge dude punched me in the eye with a monster haymaker. He also took half of my hair out when he tried to drag me from the vehicle by my hair. I kicked him in the nuts, and he fell back with a handful of my hair. Seriously. Hair was still falling out in clumps for the next 48 hours.
After that experience, I decided to never go back to the whole shitty country, and I haven't. I even refused to go to a brother in law's wedding down there.
Ed Abbey had a harsh view on Mexicans, and people accused him of racism. I think that it is illegal to own a gun in Mexico, or at least very difficult. Anyway, on the topic of illegal immigrants, he wrote that they should be humanely fed, humanely clothed, then each given a gun and ammunition to go back and straighten out their whole shitty country for themselves.
This was prior to the drug problem or cartels. Mexico has always been a corrupt and dangerous place. The tourist spots are OK, but I wouldn't stray far from them these days.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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I was in Sierra Madre near Monrovia last Saturday and got into a tussle at the Starbucks when a group of yuppy cyclists , dressed like lycra clad peacocks , cut in front of me forcing me to wait 10 minutes for my mocha frappe...Last time i go there...
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overwatch
climber
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What is ever your point?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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I spent a lot of time in Mexico in the 80s and 90s. Camped some but generally used hotels because they were so cheap. Even Ensenada creeps me out now. The town is dead except for cruise ships. Seems like the local crowd between ships is bad news. Too bad because Baja is an awesome place, would love to take my son on a trip to the tip.
The Aussie surfers made several mistakes, the final mistake was fighting back. Do not consider bringing a gun and a cowboy mentality to Mexico, when you try to play macho you will be outgunned and dead much quicker.
Drive a crappy car/truck, don't take anything you do not mind losing.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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I've been following this thread for a while not really knowing what to say. My condolences to the friends and family.
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GuapoVino
climber
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Hey Base104, I went to Copper Canyon a couple times back in the early 90's. We rode the bus to Creel then backpacked down into the canyons. We didn't have much trouble down in the canyon but some guys at the bus station in Chihuahua tried to talk me into staying in Chihuahua and doing some sight-seeing with them (like I wanted any part of that). After seemingly giving up he extended his hand to say goodbye. Without thinking I shook his hand expecting him to then walk away but instead he grabbed my hand and started trying to pull me. I was about to deck him and run for the bus, not something I was really wanting to do in a foreign country, but luckily about that time a Mexican cop came up and grabbed him and he took off. I'd love to go back to Copper Canyon but that area is right in the middle of the drug war.
You probably went through Creel. Check out this video of drug cartel goons blocking off the roads into town and then go to various houses to kill the enemies of the local drug lord.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Dec 12, 2015 - 08:21am PT
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Yup.. the Spaniards made them do it.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS, wait a minute, ah, oh.....
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Dec 12, 2015 - 08:22am PT
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I bicycled the length of Baja and the length of Mexico's west coast a couple of years back, camping almost every night. Closest I came to trouble (in Sinaloa as it happens) was when a guy selling coconuts on the side of the road told me that if I went down the dirt road to the beach (which was my plan) I'd get whacked, finger slicing across his throat was the way he explained it.
Other than that no trouble the whole trip... good karma or good luck, not sure. But on a bike you do have an advantage that when you camp its easy to get way off the road and behind some cactus or what not, so no one knows you are there.
The only real robbery I experienced on the whole ride was a California parks ranger who gave me a $300 ticket for camping in a closed state park campground.... somewhere near Cambria. Still bitter about that one.
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Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
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Dec 12, 2015 - 09:34am PT
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Thread drift alert... First, condolences to the traveling surfers. I may be naive, but I imagine that they were traveling with aloha, bringing some money to places further from the tourist spots at least.
Also, things seem to have taken a bit of a racist shift. Chief, who drew those pictures, and maybe why? Where did all those Mayan texts go? Also, maybe don't believe everything you read on the internet, in newspapers, or other historical forms of propaganda.
More recent examples of those pictures? Human ears hung from helmets, soldiers bodies hanging from bridges, fallen football heroes whose stories were retold, false wars in the Phillipines, Gulf of Tonkin, etc.
How did the Meso-Americans build those pyramids, moving so much food, forests, and stone, if all they did was cut out hearts? American ingenuity?
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ground_up
Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
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Dec 12, 2015 - 02:06pm PT
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Naive of me I now but, we send troops all over the world to
deal with others problems.
Why the hell not Mexico ?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 12, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
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Complete lack of understanding of the religion. The Aztecs and others were not killing people for their money and/or drugs.
Short enough for the dodo birds.
The Aztec religion is composed of an incredibly complicated, yet interesting, set of beliefs. Filled with stories of human sacrifices and demanding Aztec gods and goddesses, the Aztecs have left behind a legacy that will be studied and marveled for years to come.
The Hierarchy of Aztec Gods
Quetzalcoatl
Quetzalcoatl
A part of the religious Aztec legends is the belief in a hierarchy of gods. According to Aztec mythology, the top three gods were Huitzilopochtili (or “hummingbird wizard), Tezcatlipoca (“smoking mirror”) and Quetzalcoatl (“sovereign plumed serpent”). Below these three gods, those who practiced the Aztec religion believed there were four sub-gods and an infinite number of gods were below these four. Among them were the god of rain and the god of growth.
Aztec Sacrifices
Aztec sacrifices were an important aspect of the Aztec religion. At the root of these Aztec rituals was the belief that the gods needed to be nourished by human beings. This was accomplished through human blood. A part of the Aztec religion, therefore, was to participate in bloodletting, which is intentionally harming and drawing blood from the body. Those who were higher in status within the Aztec religion were expected to give the most blood during these Aztec rituals.
The Aztec gods and goddesses also required the living hearts of humans for nourishment. All hearts were good, but the bravest captives were considered to be particularly nourishing to the Aztec gods. As a result, widespread warring took place as the Aztec people sought to bring captives back to the Aztec temples for sacrifice.
Sometimes, those practicing the Aztec religion sacrificed just one person. At other times, hundreds or even thousands of captives were sacrificed at a time. Each Aztec sacrifice, however, took place the same way. The captive or captives were taken to a pyramid or temple and placed on an altar. The Aztec priest then made an incision in the ribcage of the captive and removed the living heart. The heart was then burned and the corpse was pushed down the steps of the Aztec pyramid or temple. If the captive was particularly noble or brave, however, he was carried down instead.
In the case of an Aztec human sacrifice being performed for the god Huehueteotl, the ritual was slightly changed. Huehueteotl was the Aztec god of warmth, death, and cold. He was responsible for light in the darkness and for food during times of famine. As a part of the Aztec religion, special sacrifices were held for Huehueteotl. The victim was first thrown into a fire, and then pulled back out with hooks before being dying. The living heart was then removed and thrown back to the fire. Aztec human sacrifices and bloodletting were important aspects of the Aztec religion, as they believed it brought balance and peace to the world around them.
The After Life
Warriors were highly regarded in the Aztec culture. They were responsible for going out and finding and capturing the majority of the sacrifices used to appease their gods. As a result, a special god was included in the Aztec religion to honor the warriors. This god, Camaxtli, was the god of war, hunting, fire, and fate. He was thought to have invented fire and to have made the Earth. The Aztecs believed that Camaxtli lead both warriors slain in battle and human sacrifices to the eastern sky. According to the Aztec religion, they then became stars in the sky.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Dec 12, 2015 - 02:13pm PT
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The Aztecs and others were not killing people for their money and/or drugs.
Religion, money, drugs.... what's the difference Brown.
RFLMAO...
Carry on.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 12, 2015 - 02:16pm PT
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Religion, money, drugs.... what's the difference Brown.
Religion, money, drugs....self defense, colonialism, slavery, disobeying a legitimate order (did you say keelhaul?), cannibalism, head hunting ...
feel free to expand the list
what's the difference
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Dec 12, 2015 - 02:22pm PT
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^^^^^That made no sense dooooood.... do another line and try again.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 12, 2015 - 02:41pm PT
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The Aztec religion is composed of an incredibly complicated, yet interesting, set of beliefs
Devil worship is interesting, too, but also not necessarily admirable.
Plucking beating hearts out of virgins' chests is not that complicated.
The IRS tries to do the same to me every year, although they haven't
gotten the memo that I'm not longer a virgin.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 12, 2015 - 02:53pm PT
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Jim: Neil Young's Cortez The Killer. Nice melody, but hard to dance to. It has some lies too.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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jstan
climber
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Dec 12, 2015 - 02:54pm PT
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zB:
Thanks for that text. In the sixteenth century et subs the religion followed by the Spaniards worked hard to destroy records possessed by the original peoples. We have discovered those peoples possessed extensive interest and knowledge of astronomical events. European diseases caused huge changes in their population but there was little effort to document these changes. Similar intertribal conflicts existed among north America's original peoples but I have not seen whether that culture antedated the time of the Trail of Tears. We pretty much destroyed their original living conditions and we may have caused what later transpired on the plains.
As to effects long presumed to have been due to overpopulation only a little can be said. A more recent population crash in the Sandwich Islands left archeological traces some of which even I have seen. Large areas of the Napali coast have had every available foot terraced for agriculture and records have been left by seafarers who made landfall in the 18th century. Overpopulation seems to have been endemic in polynesia. Extensive systems of canals for agricultural purposes are seen on the coast of northern Chile but I don't know when and why they fell into disuse.
Really important questions have been asked on this thread. I am sure at least some answers can be found given enough real interest.
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C4/1971
Trad climber
Depends on the day...
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Dec 15, 2015 - 06:06pm PT
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Took a brand new Airstream down to Aticama (Nayarit) last winter for three months, and then an additional month in Todos Santos (Baja Sur). No problems despite traveling in a Faberge Egg of aluminum.
There are bad decisions to make anywhere.
That said, this winter is in southern Arizona.....no transito here.
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bbbeans
Trad climber
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Dec 16, 2015 - 01:41pm PT
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Super sad. :( Sounds like resisting a robbery cost these two their lives?
Hopefully there is surfing in the Great Beyond.
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