Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 52 of total 52 in this topic |
Mad Max
Trad climber
Bakersfield
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 28, 2015 - 06:45pm PT
|
Hey everyone,
I've pretty much given up on trying to find a partner who is available when I am, and I'm fairly ready to simply begin aid soloing in order to practice to get comfortable and refine my systems, as well as probably sport climbing on steeper terrain to see what I can do about free climbing harder. (I'm still going to try to get partners for trad climbing harder, who knows maybe this will all work out and I won't need to solo).
I'm wondering what everyone thinks about the Silent Partner by Rock Exotica? The KVSAR captain has a new one he's willing to sell me for $210, and it seems like a decent deal to be able to climb somewhat safely by myself, but I would like some opinions/critiquing first.
Besides, I won't have to share beer as much either.
Cheers,
Max
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 06:46pm PT
|
If you're just doing some single pitch stuff to get your systems down there's nothing wrong with a couple of clove hitches on some big lockers. Will save you a lot of cash.
|
|
Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 07:33pm PT
|
I personally use an un-modified grigri with a quick-link instead of a locker. I keep a backup overhand on a bight with about 20' of rope.
Once you have climbed the pitch you can fix the line and run laps to get your high-stepping dialed without the fear of death messing with your psyche. Bring a timer and try running laps with vaious steps to figure out what works well for you.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 07:38pm PT
|
Sigh....I pine for the days you could get a dirtbag like Werner carry your gear and lead the pitches for $20.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 07:39pm PT
|
For aid, nothing beats this. Used it for over ten years on tons of Big Wall Solo adventures. Easy to loosen rope after whippers. Something you can not do with the simple clove hitch system.
http://gearx.com/rock-exotica-solo-aid-belay-device
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 07:41pm PT
|
I'm pretty sure every aspiring aid/wall climber has come to this point and found that soloing was about the only way they were really going to get the practice they wanted done.
Every solo aid system has it's strengths and weaknesses. I do like the Silent Partner the best. It is the safest (well nothing I know of is safer lets say) is fairly fast and not too annoying to use...but it's not the fastest or least bulky.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 07:42pm PT
|
The KVSAR captain has a new one he's willing to sell me for $210, and it seems like a decent deal to be able to climb somewhat safely by myself,
Stupid.
You don't need a 200 hundred dollar stoopid piece of gear.
What's wrong with you people?
All you you need is two locking biners and clove hitch.
Guys where doing big walls all the time this way.
Modern people spend way too much money on this sh!t ....
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
|
Have you taken a 30-50' whipper on a clove hitch rig Werner???
The rope is locked up in the knot tighter than witches ass locked around her broom stick.
The only way out of it is to cut away... seriously. Been there and done that. It sucks. That is when I decided to invest on the Solo-Aid. No more Locked up Witches ass after a decent whip.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
|
Never fell on solo .....
|
|
jonnyrig
climber
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
|
I like my Silent Partner.
Mind you, much of what I climb is under 50 ft, often under 30. That's what I have available locally. In that short a space, it's nice to not be fussing with moving knots around. The most difficult part is sometimes building enough of an anchor at ground level in some of the crap I go after. It feeds very well on lead, and I don't have to screw with it mmuch. That said, it's all lead climbing, whether free or aid.
For top-rope solo, I couldn't get it to feed worth a damn. There are better systems for top-rope solo.
In any case, i don't push hard when solo, so I haven't fallen on it except to test it out a couple times.
As mentioned before, there are other systems that work. They have their limitations. Maybe the guy you referred to will take you out on a test run with it and let you see if you like it?
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
|
How about two lockers, a belay plate and the ability to tie overhand slip knots. I soloed the Turning Point using that system with a 7mm prusik sling for fine tuning. Works well for free climbing too as you can manage it with one hand. This system is worth learning just in case you have to solo self belay while doing a free climb.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 07:59pm PT
|
Another nice deal about the Solo-Aid, it's simple, the rope runs nice and smooth through the cam when transitioning from Aid to Free and while Free climbing. Unlike the Clove Hitch rig where the rope must be continuously fed so as not to have it lock up which in most cases occurs right at least optimum time.
|
|
CanopyGorilla
Big Wall climber
Lolo, MT
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 08:02pm PT
|
This hole practice aid thing doesn't make sense to me. Here's how I learned to aid climb: I walked all of my sh#t to the base of the leaning tower. I slept at the f*#kin base. I woke up in the morning and started climbing. I had two bolt ladder pitches to "practice". I used a clove hitch the whole time. I didn't know about lowering bags or myself, so I grunted a lot getting my bags off the anchor and watching them fly into space. I also sh#t my pants a lot jumping to clean a quick draw then flying out into space. I got to Ahwahnee at about 2 am and fell asleep without hauling face down in the gravel. The nest day I hauled and decided to get really, really drunk and high. I ended up naked dancing to blue grass when some jack asses decided to ruin my party and join me on the ledge. They were talking about bailing and I was tired. I told them I would lead everything if they belayed me. They belayed me to the top so I got some more practice.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 08:15pm PT
|
LOL ... ^^^
|
|
CanopyGorilla
Big Wall climber
Lolo, MT
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
|
^^^hey Werner good to see you here (I'm new here) I was on T-Sar in 07 and my most memorable moment was meeting you. We were doing some halfdome long haul. I was in charge of setting up on of the legs for the anchor. I had a bunch of bomber nuts and cams equalized and was feeling pretty proud of my anchor. You walked over to inspect and I could tell you looked skeptical. You backed my whole anchor up with a #1 LA and them proclaimed the whole affair "bomber". I still laughing about that. Later that summer you helped me saw some angels, thanks for that!
|
|
CanopyGorilla
Big Wall climber
Lolo, MT
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
|
Grossman, that sounds slick. A little more explanation? P.s. one of my goals in life is jolly.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 09:12pm PT
|
Pretty simple really. You tie overhand slip knots such that the overhand knot contacts the belay device and stack the loops off to the side of your harness on a second locking carabiner. As the rope feeds into your belay device and the overhand knot is just about to jam then you tug on the other side of the knot and clear it out to feed through.
It takes a little practice to make sure that you tie the overhand slip knots correctly. I would use the 7mm prusik to keep the belay snug in between knots while aiding.
Play with it and you will find that it is easy to unclip and release the knots one handed while free climbing and you can space the knots as needed for the difficulty of the climbing.
This system was mistakenly called the Charles Cole system and dismissed as unsife by Duane Raleigh in a review article long ago about self belay systems since Charles used a Jumar in place of the knot loop system. I originally used a big beefy Clog ascender but soon switched to knots.
The Jolly Roger is pretty beat up these days but still a thriller.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 09:25pm PT
|
Hey Steve G, have you taken any falls on that system?
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 09:29pm PT
|
I went for 50 on the pitch exiting the Half Dollar to the right off the Salathe when I under drove a medium copperhead. The prusik slicked up the rope sheath a bit before the knot caught but the whole system worked fine. Several hooks later I had to stand on a rotten bathead when my line crossed Mediterraneo and it barely held my bodyweight. That fall would have been a hundred footer. Batheads suck.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 09:41pm PT
|
Cool.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2015 - 09:49pm PT
|
Suppose that you had to self belay up the end of a free climb because your partner was unconscious or couldn't belay you for some reason. If you have a belay device like most climbers do then this is really the best way to get the job done.
I used a Sticht plate with spring back in 1984 but most belay devices will work and you really don't even need to use a locking carabiner to hold the stack of loops on the side of your harness. A Grigri or the equivalent will also work if that's what you already belay with.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 02:24am PT
|
Didn't Ammon just use an unmodded grigri for all his fast El Cap solos?
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 06:21am PT
|
Hey Steve, with your system, does one have to a clip an assortment of looped cord onto their harness and then unclip a loop as u you ascend?
Like this....
|
|
rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 07:06am PT
|
twin cloves for real.
done this for a 100 pitches in desert, cheap, reliable, and cheap.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 07:08am PT
|
Rick d.....
Did you take any sustained falls with your twin clove hitch rig?
|
|
Mad Max
Trad climber
Bakersfield
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2015 - 08:21am PT
|
So what I'm getting from all of you guys is:
"Yer gonna die!"
Amiright?
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 08:23am PT
|
I used a single side biner with no more than five or six single strand loops (about ten feet each in length) clipped into it at a time so much less bulky than what you have shown here. I would have to stop every fifty feet or so and restack knots.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 08:39am PT
|
Steve...
That is another issue that I personally did not like about your particular system.
With the Solo-Aid or the new "Altered" Gri Gri rig, the rope runs free from a well stacked bucket below ya and no additional weight is added to your already clusterfked harness and chest rack.
Below is a drawing of my system...
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 08:46am PT
|
Winter, solo aid practice.....aren't there a ton of abandoned gulags in Siberia in need of campground hosts?
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 08:46am PT
|
The downside of the Soloaid system as I understand it is that if you happen to fall and end up upside down then the rope will continue to feed through checked only by the rope weight below. I've never used one. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable leaving the lead line stacked below as you have shown.
I am only describing the setup that worked for me thirty years ago and may work cheaply for Mad Max as he seeks glory on the Solo Road.
We're all gonna die...
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 08:51am PT
|
Steve,
That is why one attaches a locker or small pulley on and allows the lead to run through their chest rack. Learned that one from an way older solo rig set up described by Norman Kingsley in his older Icecraft Book as well as RR's 2nd book, Advanced Rockcraft.
Have taken well over two dozen 30plus footer whips over a 12 year period with that rig and have NEVER had that issue you described occur.
|
|
Mad Max
Trad climber
Bakersfield
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2015 - 08:52am PT
|
So I'm thinking the Silent Partner with a few clove hitch backups, and the rest down below (making more as needed) would be a good middle-of-the-road option? I have money, so I'm willing to pay whatever I have to do to just get my ass outside and in a harness, I HATE being grounded because everyone I know flaked.
You guys are really helpful and knowledgeable, didn't know there were so many ways to go about this! Thanks a ton everyone!
Max
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 09:00am PT
|
A backed up Silent Partner is one of the more popular solo systems. If done properly is about as safe as solo aid can get. Reasonably efficient as well.
One of the reasons experienced climbers can go on and on with this subject is because no one has ever developed a perfectly satisfactory system yet. They ALL have some significant drawbacks.
SOLO-Aid with the chest harness (the one The Chief is suggesting) is one I always wanted to try though.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 09:02am PT
|
How many of your falls have been head first, at least initially?
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 09:06am PT
|
Mad Max...
I recommend that you give each different method a go on a well controlled environment, take some small whips on em each, and then figure out which best suites your fancy.
That is what I did for over a two month period till I finally settled with the Solo-Aid rig which I describe.
On a side note, finding a system that works and keeps you from dying when you do take a fall, is what truly matters. Everything is just fine till that moment comes and you suddenly hear that infamous..
PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING
EDIT:
How many of your falls have been head first, at least initially?
I am confused at your question Steve. I always maintained a vertical posture, Head up, when I climbed. Whether solo or with a partner.
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 09:07am PT
|
Steve,
My understanding is that the Solo-Aid handles inverted falls just fine. It's the Soloist that is not so good for head first whippers.
Comments anyone?
g
|
|
Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 09:12am PT
|
Steve,
My understanding is that the Solo-Aid handles inverted falls just fine. It's the Soloist that is not so good for head first whippers.
Comments anyone?
g
Yes. This^^ I have done a fair amount of soloing on a soloist and a silent partner. All these other methods (knots, Grigri..) have worked fine for me as long as it is all aid. As soon as I nee to free climb, nothing has worked better than the Silent Partner. And you don't need to have all those knots attached to your harness either.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 09:13am PT
|
Gene...
Precisely. But having the back up chest rigged assures that it will do so each and every time.
At least that is what I did for insurance per the older advice of both Kingsley and RR in their books that spoke about soloing rig set-ups.
|
|
Mad Max
Trad climber
Bakersfield
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2015 - 09:15am PT
|
Quick question about the huge mess of clove hitched biners as backups:
Does that gear loop need to be weight bearing? Or is the plan to just get them stuck in the device should it fail (sending a huge arc of spaghetti nightmare over the land, should the gear loop fail as well). I have a Waldo Safe Tech so I won't have that issue, but I have other harnesses that aren't made like that that I could be using as well, so it caught my attention.
Cheers,
Max
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 09:17am PT
|
Most folks don't do that with the rope. Norwegian seems to like it though. One loop hitched is enough to keep you always backed up. Add a new loop each time before you reach and undo one. On most pitches you can leave the rope flaked at the anchor below.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 09:20am PT
|
Gene- Thanks for the clarification on the two devices. It is the Soloist that I am thinking of.
I have gone fully inverted only once on a big fall on the Central Scrutinizer. I had the presence of mind to cross my arms in flight to make sure that the racks didn't come off. I was very happy to have a partner.
I'M GONNA DIE did flash on the screen that day as I listened to a Forrest Fall Arrest and a Yates Screamer blow up far away on a #3 and #4 RP which was all that I had in to prevent a full 200 foot factor two fall right on the belayer. "Steve, I think I might be getting a little old for this," was his remark once we checked in with each other. Suck it up and get back up there...
|
|
Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 09:39am PT
|
The knot/biner just needs to keep the rope from passing through the device. Clipping them back to your harness, however is important for not only backup, but also allows the rope to feed better. If there is too much weight on the rope (ie, too much rope hanging) the device will not feed well, or at all. You need to balance the weight hanging off of each side of the SP to keep it feeding well, and keep backup knots and/or re-belays on the anchor side as needed.
You can tie just a few knots at a time and tie/untie them as you go. It is a trade-off, however, since if the free climbing is difficult enough that you can't tie/untie, this will be difficult. As the climbing becomes more difficult, it is easier IMO to keep more backups clipped to you and just undo them as you get to them, without the need to tie another one. Of course, this also means you are carrying more and more rope with you.
I have hit the backup knot on the soloist. I have not needed it with the SP, not that I fall all that frequently while soloing. I had tried carrying the excess rope in a pack with the Soloist, but have not tried this with the SP (not sure if this would work?). Didn't really like it.
|
|
Mad Max
Trad climber
Bakersfield
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2015 - 10:14am PT
|
Awesome, so I think I'm going to go ahead and get the Silent Partner soon because (A) I'm a big chicken and (B) it seems like a little less fuss to worry about on my harness.
Now I just need to sew up an un-tippable beer holster and I'm golden!
|
|
Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 10:16am PT
|
Does fish sew those?
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 10:18am PT
|
Now I just need to sew up an un-tippable beer holster and I'm golden!
How will you make sure it doesn't party foul in an upside down fall?
|
|
Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 10:21am PT
|
It is definitely not "less fuss"! Compared to knots it is a whole lot more fuss. But if you work out the kinks, it self feeds for free climbing better than anything I've tried. Also keep in mind that while aiding, you'll have your daisies and rope tied into your harness. With a SP plus backup knots in the mix, it gets real crowded in a hurry.
Try checking out Hudon's solo TR's if you want to see a good use of the SP for bigwalls.
|
|
RyanD
climber
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 10:37am PT
|
Some really cool ideas here.
A grigri has worked well for me in the little experience I have with solo sport poofter aid climbing. If u turn it upside down it feeds a little better and it is easier to get extra rope if needed with one hand if you are free climbing by pulling on the sharp end and holding the grigri cam against your leg. I usually have a backup knot below at some point above the ground.
I use this method to get the rope up on single pitch projects sometimes when I don't have a partner. Then I'll flip the grigri and climb it on tr, pulling rope as needed. It's actually easier to work hard moves in a lot of ways too because you can control the rope so precisely, top rope, etc.
not sure how this would work on a wall or hard aid or if ppl have experience doing this, but to go climbing by yourself with a rope it works good for me and I don't need any extra gear than I would going cragging with friends. Plus you can dial you prahjjjjjkkkttt then go back there with ur buddies and burn them off.
If you are considering aid climbing as a necessary evil due to partner situations maybe consider this first? Bouldering isn't as bad as it looks either.
|
|
Mad Max
Trad climber
Bakersfield
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2015 - 10:49am PT
|
Very true Ryan, I'm considering all approaches to kill boredom this winter. Any tips for bouldering when its 25-45 degrees? (no snow...yet).
Alpamayo, I get all that but it's aid climbing, its gonna be a massive clusterf#ck anyways, so might as well throw in one more doodad for my crotch to contend with.
|
|
RyanD
climber
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 10:57am PT
|
It's 0 degrees Celsius here and we have been we have been enjoying the finest friction and bouldering conditions probably in North America for the past week. Zero humidity, no sweat or grease
A quick hang board session before heading out and trying not to sit around too much in the cold helps to stay warm. A thermos of tea or coffee or whisky and spliffs or all of those things can potentially extend a session. It's probably my favourite type of climbing tbh. You are on the rock for shorter periods and don't have to belay.
|
|
Mad Max
Trad climber
Bakersfield
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2015 - 11:08am PT
|
Ryan you are a saint, thanks man!
|
|
rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2015 - 06:06pm PT
|
chief-
several 30-50' falls.
had a silent partner for a year, hated it.
refuse to learn gri gri (to keep jeremy mad at me)
|
|
| Messages 1 - 52 of total 52 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!