Developed under influence of strong psychoactive substances

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healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 9, 2015 - 08:59pm PT
Do we really need to name names?


This is just way too special not to cross post...

Pavel Burov (from MP): This "no retrobolting" point has become kind of dogmatic.

There are lot of routes in Yosemite were developed under influence of strong psychoactive substances. Some of them are equipped with inadequate fixed protection which cannot be fixed under the "no retrobolting" dogma. Some of those routes follow natural aesthetic lines created by nature.

Modern climbers are not homeless drug addicts. They have full time job and go out for climbing on weekends. They climb hard because of discipline, training schedule, acquired skills, and fit level. Sticky rubber and ultralight gear add some magic too. They climb hard because of following safety routines and obeying rules, not because of climbing being way beyond the term "under influence".

Yes, there is a local rule "no retrobolting". And there is a solid rationale behind the rule. Although there is a solid rationale against it. Tempora mutantur, rules change. And "absolutely no retrobolting" rule is one to be at least reviewed.

Just in case. This is not to be considered as a support of Erik's retrobolting. Today Yosemite policy is "no retrobolting". Till this policy is on, no retrobolting is tolerated.
Alpamayo

Trad climber
Davis, CA
Nov 9, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
Hook. Line. Sinker.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 9, 2015 - 09:36pm PT
The hallucinations and convulsive symptoms caused by ergotism may have been
the basis for the accusations of witchcraft that lead to the Salem witch trials.
RyanD

climber
Nov 9, 2015 - 10:19pm PT


http://www.highexistence.com/microdosing-lsd-psychedelic/
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Nov 9, 2015 - 10:40pm PT
Yosemite policy is "no retrobolting". Till this policy is on, no retrobolting is tolerated.
Lurkingtard

climber
Nov 9, 2015 - 10:47pm PT
The Fish is on a roll.




Edit:



~~~






;-)


HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 10, 2015 - 06:26am PT
So...today's climbers are worse than homeless drug addicts?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2015 - 07:02am PT
On average?
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Nov 10, 2015 - 08:48am PT
bolts placed on acid by stonedmasters are best bolts ever placed.

fact.
covelocos

Trad climber
Nov 10, 2015 - 08:56am PT
*Hoodwink
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 10, 2015 - 08:58am PT
So old skool hippy climbers under the influence are better, stronger, braver, more head space controlled than "modern" climbers with sticky rubber, training regimens, ultralight gear and jobs??

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Nov 10, 2015 - 10:40am PT
Man, I can totally see this. Drop a 4 way of window pane and go up that wall like friggin Gollum himself.


JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 10, 2015 - 10:44am PT
If routes established thusly are over yer head, feed it, and lead it.

Well said, Kevin!

John
RyanD

climber
Nov 10, 2015 - 11:27am PT

Nov 10, 2015 - 08:58am PT
So hippy climbers under the influence are better, stronger, braver, more head space controlled than climbers with sticky rubber, training regimens, ultralight gear and jobs??


I fixed it for u survival, this old vs modern climber bullshit is weaksauce. Lots of younger climbers still get high and run it out and sleep in a box. They just don't post on supertopo.

Lots of ppl also like to go climb and have fun but fear the reaper for whatever reason. Same as it ever was, only dif is there's more climbers collectively now.


Either way who cares, just tell me about the drugs. That's what this is about.


I would love to hear more about microdosing and climbing.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Nov 10, 2015 - 11:31am PT
Microdosing? So you don't want to hear about the products of macrodosing.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Nov 10, 2015 - 11:36am PT
Thanks for the link Ryan.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 10, 2015 - 12:25pm PT
I believe this was the rationale for retrobolting some routes, including Phosphorescent Flow, at The Needles. Screwed up some pretty good climbs. Not every climb is for every climber.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Nov 10, 2015 - 04:50pm PT
^^^&^&^^^
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Nov 10, 2015 - 05:03pm PT
This begs the question, do we need guide books with psychoactive drug pairings, similar to wine and beer pairings for food?
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Nov 10, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
Jesus! Make up some rules and then believe in them and follow them unfailingly! What are you, some kind of non-conformist, or something?

Pave those neural pathways a little deeper oh ye enlightened humans :-)
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 10, 2015 - 07:33pm PT
Why Section 43? It is the one right before Section 44.

Joe had the good sense to wear a helmet at least.


[Click to View YouTube Video]

john hansen

climber
Nov 10, 2015 - 07:40pm PT
MD micro dose

D full dose

DD double dose, equivalent of X rating

As in 5.10c A4+ D





healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
I'm going to have to go through my portfolio and re-rate all the good routes by that standard. Of course, when they have names like 'Electric Koolaid Acid Test', I would hope they'd be at least somewhat self-explanatory. Maybe some beta like - microdot, not blotter - would be helpful, though.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2015 - 08:41pm PT
I suppose too that a rating of 5.11a OD would naturally have to be taken seriously.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 10, 2015 - 09:22pm PT
I appreciate and understand the thinking Ryan, but if you change it around then it's no longer a quote, is it? You could easily post your thoughts without altering mine.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2015 - 09:52pm PT
Lots of ppl also like to go climb and have fun but fear the reaper for whatever reason. Same as it ever was, only dif is there's more climbers collectively now.

Well, if only that were the only dif, but what's drastically changed is the ratio between those two groups today.
RyanD

climber
Nov 11, 2015 - 12:19am PT
^^^


Good point Healyje, & I thought about that actually before posting.

Perhaps the ratio has inverted.

How do we get the kids proper LSD heroes these days??


Survival, all good and thanks. I think I did share my thoughts- but again we are getting away from the drugs here. I think you owe us a story at this point ;-)


Here's one, this guy doses and learns German in a week.



There are few, if any, LSD researchers who would give credence to this demonstration, but nonetheless there are instances of less extravagant LSD accomplishments which came about through memory enhancement. The most notable and the one most often used as illustration is language learning. The process is similar to that of technical and creative problem solving. A student, who learned enough German in a week to enroll for a second-year college course in the subject, describes the technique:
It was a week before registration and it depressed me tremendously that I had not spent the summer learning German, as I had planned. I had intended to give myself a crash course so I could take second-year German, which I needed for my study in physics. I had heard of a woman who had learned enough Spanish in a few days, via LSD, to speak it fluently when she had to go to Mexico on business. I had taken LSD before, and while I couldn't see how she did this, I decided it was worth a try.
I hadn't even gotten around to picking up a textbook, but I did have a close friend who knew German well and who said he was willing to "sit in" while I took the drug and try to teach me the language. Fortunately, I knew something about conjugation and declension, so I wasn't completely at sea.
I wanted to get worked up and feel involved with the language, as it seemed that this must be at least part of the key to the problem, so I asked my friend to tell me about Schiller and Goethe, and why the verb came at the end. Almost immediately, after just a story or two, I knew I had been missing a lot in ignoring the Germans, and I really got excited.
The thing that impressed me at first was the delicacy of the language (he was now giving me some simple words and phrases), and though I really messed it up, I was trying hard to imitate his pronunciation as I had never tried to mimic anything before. For most people German may be "guttural," but for me it was light and lacey. Before long, I was catching on even to the umlauts. Things were speeding up like mad, and there were floods of associations. My friend had only to give me a German word, and almost immediately I knew what it was through cognates. It turned out that it wasn't even necessary for him to ask me what it sounded like.
Memory, of course, is a matter of association, and boy, was I ever linking up to things! I had no difficulty recalling words he had given me—in fact, I was eager to string them together. In a couple of hours after that I was reading even some simple German, and it all made sense.
The whole experience was an explosion of discoveries. Normally, when you've been working on something for a long time and finally discover a solution, you get excited, and you can see implications everywhere. Much more than if you heard someone else discovering the same-thing. Now this discovery thing, that's what was happening with me—but all the time. The threshold of understanding was extremely low, so that with every new phrase I felt I was making major discoveries. When I was reading, it was as though I had discovered the Rosetta Stone and the world was waiting for my translation. Really wild!
After "Falling in love with German," on the basis of this one LSD session this student then went on the following day to read Mann's Dr. Faustus. He had both the original text and an English translation. By the time he had finished the novel, he found that he was scarcely referring to the English version. He also discovered that in having read that much German, he had developed a feeling for grammar structure and word endings that was almost intuitive. When his friend questioned him, he said he could not readily explain what the third-person singular past-tense ending was, but he demonstrated that he could use it. In this sense, he had learned the language as a child learns it, not as it is taught in formal instruction. When he registered for German 210, an intensive reading course, the following week, the instructor expressed skepticism when he heard the student was self-taught. Upon testing him, however, it was soon evident that his German reading comprehension was well above average.

http://www.psychedelic-library.org/staf5.htm








survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 11, 2015 - 08:25am PT
Ryan, all my stories are classified. You may file a Freedom Of Information Act request, and it will likely be approved, within the next five years.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Nov 11, 2015 - 09:05am PT
Among the Gunnison climbing crowd in the 70's, dosing before climbing was a fairly common occurrence. I was already past my dosing "head" days but those who partook said that it allowed them to see all of the subtle friction holds that were camouflaged by the lichen.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Feb 2, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
Micro dose bump!

I fully endorse the micro dose movement, I think most people could benefit from a bit of lsd once or twice a week.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 2, 2016 - 04:25pm PT


NO DROP

One drop
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 2, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
what the View might be Like.
With A Drop or 2 once or twice a week
Highgloss

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Feb 2, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
3 drops from the vial is usually just about right :)
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 2, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
This begs the question, do we need guide books with psychoactive drug pairings, similar to wine and beer pairings for food?

You tell me
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 2, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
My favorite of theirs^^
Highgloss

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Feb 3, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
I concur!

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 3, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
I don't know... You get the dosage wrong and things start getting weird long before you reach the climb.

Seriously, if the trees on the approach are putting out tentacles to grab you, is it any wonder that the route you put up doesn't conform to 5.normal?

eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Feb 4, 2016 - 11:59am PT
Ho Man! Just listened to the White Rabbit post video link. I've heard it over a thousand times and it still does it for me. I feel like a fat Italian guy crying while listening to his favorite opera. My nominee for the greatest rock and roll song of all time. - I'm with you Jaybro.

That photograph. As iconic to climbing in it's own way.
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