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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^Nice p210
Good fun for you Nature. I got my ppl in 88' even then I was to old to use it as a profession. I took on a job at the airport to keep costs down so I could play. Flying is great fun, I've flown a dozen different types of planes, even helicopters, ultralights and sailplanes. Which I agree, sailplane is the best flying. My advice for you would be to join a club. Best rental prices and the money is straightforward. Buying a plane is like buying a boat, it's just a hole in the water you pour your money into. Cept with a plane your just throwing your money up in the air and letting the wind blow it away🌬
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soaring_bird
Trad climber
Oregon
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I have been flying since '88 and have 3,000 hours now, and 75% of that is instructing as a CFI. What Pvalchev said is absolutely true, right on the money. The risk management concepts are very similar. A humble approach to your decision-making is what will keep you alive in flying. As for retractable gear.... Not only is the insurance way higher for a retractable, the gear is just one more thing that can malfunction or something that you might one day forget due to a minor momentary distraction. Unfortunately, that happens even with very experienced and competent pilots. For the relatively small speed advantage and fuel savings, I don't believe the benefit is worth the extra cost and risk. A fixed gear 182 would work well on the Rocky Mtn. front country. If you are talking about a high performance Mooney or Bonanza, which are only made as retractable, the advantage is significant and the cost becomes more justified since the penalty of parasitic drag is extremely high at faster speeds. Also, what others have said about sailplanes and tail wheel aircraft are also true. Finish your private certificate first and then open the amazing doors of these other worlds. Soaring is supremely phenomenal, especially on the mountain wave you find on the east side. Not sure if there is a wave window (FAA waiver on file) near Boulder. There is one for Owl Canyon north of Fort Collins, however. This is a glider pilot's ticket into Class A airspace. Expand your horizons with these new challenges once you've accomplished the task at hand. Sounds like you are well on your way and getting closer. In addition to being partially "all about cross country from here on," much of the remainder of your training will actually wind up focusing on "putting it all together," mastering the short-field spot landings, steep turns, etc., and getting ready to ace your oral exam and checkride. It will soon be time to focus on the PTS, practicing all tasks to perfection, and holding yourself accountable with much discipline. Make every minute of your solo time count. Congratulations on committing to this exciting pursuit. You will do great and will benefit immensely from your success. If you are ever out in Portland, let's go flyin' to some short grass strips in the Cub!
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2015 - 09:33pm PT
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From what I am reading it looks like it'll cost 11-15K to get instrument rated with a mountain flying certification. Sound about right to you?
is that including the PPL? That seems about right if so. I'll probably end up spending around $8K.
Final in a Beaver on our way into the Vampire Spires.
This is sitting in the hanger next to the 172 i'm flying tomorrow.
probably less than 100 hours. so if you have a cool million bucks sitting around
NOAA is doing something with this.
then there's
two million bucks between the three of them. and then there's zero eight juliet (did I say that too loud?)
Edit: didn't mean to leave the part out about polishing for oral and final check out. i've been hammering pretty hard at this for three months - sometimes flying/training 4 times a week. Shorts and softs are coming along very nicely and the steep turns etc. i seem to have down pretty well. Took one try at a short takeoff to figure that out (surfing the ground seemed pretty easy and I stuck the seventh stripe on my first shot landing).
It's just yesterdays first solo away from the airport was the last bit before the cross-country training. Just did the 3 hour ground school requirement and will be up at 5:30 for the first one.
And that solo yesterday was probably one of the most gripping experiences of my life. I really tried to enjoy it and certainly seeing the first snow on the Rockies helped. Now I can really enjoy it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mooneys fly nice but they're a pain to get into. I bet that Lancair does too.
Soaring bird, I haven't soared over the Front Range but a guy I knew would
get up there at FL 180 and call Denver Center and request a block space.
The controller would clear him and give him a squawk number. A minute
later the controller calls back
"Grob 123, I'm not reading your transponder."
"Roger, Denver, it must be on the fritz."
The dood didn't even have a transponder! LOL!!!!
BITD this was sort of winked at by Denver Center if traffic was light.
Waay BITD an old buddy was out tooling around with his wingman in their
F-4 Phantoms. Gary got a wild hair and told his wing to get in trail and
a 100' high. Then Gary headed down into the Grand Canyon, below the rim!
They're tooling along at 300 knots when Gary sees a speck ahead that turned
into a Cessna, like in two seconds. He pushed forward on his stick and slid
right beneath the dood while his wingman went right over him!!!!! A trip
to the dry cleaner was the first stop for that Cessna driver. Gary decided
he'd had enough and pulled hard and went back up to FL 400 where belonged.
I saw with my own eyes in the So Sierras an EA-6 on a MTR almost hit a Cessna.
It was really close.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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I love radio engines,
That would be "Radial" engines....
I had the distinct privilege of spotting the last operational one of these "Radial Engine" driven beasts (VX-1) on Cat 1, May 12, 1976, USS America CV-66
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Carry On...
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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Nature - Congratulations on the solo! It is an indescribable moment when you take off without an instructor by your side. Awesome. Good luck with the rest of your training - and take it easy for the first 100 hours. I did and still had an incident in a gusty wind landing.
Pvalchev - Thank you for the book order, I'll ship today. Let us all know how you like it.
I agree with you on risk assessment and management. I try to be more conservative in my flying life, though that doesn't mean I try to take more risks climbing. Simple examples of runout climbing, backcountry skiing with "low to moderate" avalanche danger, and flying single-engine over mountains or a fogged over valley all carry some risk that we can choose to accept or not. If we accept it, we can work hard on minimizing and managing that risk, always thinking of the consequences.
It is part of why I like flying. I get to have that challenge and singular focus of risk management and decision making in my daily work life, not just on the weekend.
Want to clear your mind of crap? Start off on lead on a climb at your grade, or push the throttle in on an airplane to start your roll on the runway.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^ That's after the resole?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2015 - 09:55am PT
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Just returned from my first cross-country flight with my instructor. KBDU->KFMM->KBDU. I'm beyond exhausted. used the GLL VOR for the return flight.
That's a lot to digest at once.
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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That's a lot to digest at once.
It is. I remember that - thinking it would nice to do longer flights to get the training over with more quickly. But you can't - you are at or near saturation after each flight. So much to learn.
But it works - and you are well on your way!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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What airport is KFMM? Find My Mom?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2015 - 10:09am PT
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Fort Morgan, CO. don't ask me about the landing in that cross wind. I'm not proud :)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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You walked away from it, right? 'Nuff said.
Buddy of mine went to the Pribilof Islands in a Twin Otter. The crosswinds
were so strong they couldn't land on the sole runway but they still used
the runway, only they landed across it! Basically a zero groundspeed at
touchdown. The pilot had to hold the brakes while the pax got out. My friend
put his 40 pound suitcase down for a second and had to go chase it.
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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don't ask me about the landing in that cross wind
Geesh, I wouldn't expect you to do well at cross wind landings at this point. At least it took me quite a while.
I came within inches of taking out a runway light trying to land in a stiff crosswind at Las Vegas Henderson before giving up and heading over to North Las Vegas where they have more runways to choose from.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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And yer instructor hasn't taught you forward slips yet? Booogus!
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2015 - 10:39am PT
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I started training right at the end of July. As I reflect back it's easy to see how far I have come. We had stellar weather in August and September - was pretty good in October. Very little opportunity for cross wind landings. Thinking about training up until now here's some thoughts and experiences.
First day/flight out is nerve wracking. I had no idea what the Cessna could handle so every bump gave me anxiety. With my instructor in my ear he directed me while I did the takeoff. I wasn't expecting that. Shortly after departure I asked, "uh, you're gonna land this thing, right?" Deep sigh of relief with the "yes" answer.
Javi is probably 15 years younger than me. He doesn't have the wisdom the more experienced pilots have. That is a double-edge sword. He's excellent at training so I'm 100% confident with him but I also fly with Joe who is probably 10 years older than me. he's got the wisdom. It's an excellent mix.
The next few flights we work on some basic turns - clearing, etc. and I get more comfortable. The landings work begins in here somewhere. I cannot recall when I thought to myself - "oh sh#t, I really can land this thing". that was probably the EXACT moment most of my anxiety went away and confidence entered. It was obvious in my smile alone.
In one of those early flights I posted in some thread with a discussion with Reilly about how I thought power off stalls where a RIOT. He responded - wait for power ON stalls.
Those skills came easy to me. turns on a point came easy. s-turns. The basic stuff.
My first time out with Joe i got wickedly lucky at a landing at KBJC - the perfect landing. didn't hear the wheels squeal nor did I even feel them touch the ground. literally light as a feather. That's not happened since.
The hardest part early on is radio communications. It's easy enough at an airport like Boulder that doesn't have a tower - its all communication with other traffic. i forced myself to figure out the pattern work at KBDU. I also listened to traffic and towers online and that helped. even went back and listened to myself on the recorded stuff. Talking to tower was a bit daunting but on about my third flight I knew how to talk and what they HAVE to hear. today was the first time talking to Denver but that was to simply open and close the flight plan. next week we fly to Colorado Springs and we'll be in Bravo airspace so we'll really be talking to Denver.
We can come and go as we please here in Boulder (so long as we are within Visual Flight Rules parameters 2 152) . At metro we do have to declare we're coming and going and then follow their directions as it's not controlled airspace (again VFR). In Bravo airspace unlike metro you need to be cleared to enter. It's about the worse idea ever to enter Bravo w/o clearance (Clarence).
"The Pattern" is the way we enter the local airport to land. There's a method to it that until you do this training you've no idea what's going on. Toss in a TAC chart that has all the air spaces and whatnot and it's confusing at first but does come quickly.
My steep turns took a little longer to get dialed and I'm probably not there yet.
Engine out landings - that was funny. Javi cut the power and said - ok now what. I'm all... I dunno, land?. He respond with "ABCDE". i said, "so you know the beginning of the alphabet - so?". "have we not gone over this?", he asked. "Uh, No." We have fields all over so that was easy enough training.
About three weeks ago we had a plan go to the practice area. We did some touch and goes at Boulder and after about the fourth Javi said, "Let's make this a full stop". With an hour to go I knew what that meant. "Gulp". Last thing he said before hopping out of the plane was, "I think you're ready for this and Joe thinks your ready for this." Sometimes a dozen words is all it takes. My three takeoffs and landings that day were more than acceptable - in fact probably pretty darn good. A3 pitch over. Wheeeew.
Next time out it was easy for the in pattern solo practice. well, except for the last landing where I caught prop wash from a chopper getting ready to take off. It jacked me left, I corrected in my flair, touched the right wheel down and decided NO. Rejected the landing full throttle and went around. As I walk in the door after Javi is laughing and notes the prop was. I didn't realize until then what happened. Good times.
Back to metro for radio work with tower a few days later and I do very well.
finally yesterday it was the first real solo leaving the airport and heading to the practice area and then Longmont. My takeoff was fine but shortly after got into some light bumps and it rattled me. off to the practice area for a few turns around a point. Javi asked that I only do not do power off emergency landing. As much as power off stalls are a riot (still!) I wanted nothing to do with those or steep turns (good G-forces there). Off to Longmont for a full stop landing then two touch and goes. I bounced the last hard but eh... whatever. Back to Boulder for another bouncy landing but no event and once off the runway I feel a sense of relief but some confidence and am pretty proud of myself. Then we do the x-country planning last night and the flight this AM. I've turned it up a notch as I have to get this done soon. I want it done by the time we get our 333 Exemption.
This all ads up that I can quit my day job which I hate more and more every day and can go fly toys outside in the great wide open of our NAS - at least to 200' AGL.
As a scuba instructor I took some time to give Javi some advice. I feel earlier on he should have taken me on a good ride showing me the limitations of the plane in turns, stalls, etc. would have helped when things got bumppy or whatever. he also did a low and fast landing and bounced the Cessna really hard. It would have helped me greatly early on. not sure about other folks but I expect us climbers want it that way.
Yesterday was like the A4 hook pitch on Lunar Eclipse. Except I suppose I had the skills to know that no whipper was going to happen. No hook was going to blow.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2015 - 10:42am PT
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No, Joe and Javi both worked on slips with me. Coming in high on the landing, do the slip and lose the elevation and land as normal. It's keeping it lined up that was the issue. It wasn't a bad landing at all. My flair was almost non-existent but we got her down, did the touch and go and were off. Really only my second crosswind landing with decent winds.
there's a place in broomfield where you can practice them on computers. I'll put those two hours in an make them fun.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I feel earlier on he should have taken me on a good ride showing me the limitations of the plan
The plan or the plane? :-)
Not sure you're ready for that, as in, a power ON stall while in a 45 bank, right?
"Hey, who turned the world upside down?" ;-)
Love seeing yer enthusiasm! You'd be a fun student to have. Now that I'm
a man of leisure I should go back to teaching just for the infusion of
youthful energy. Sadly, many of them don't have the skills to match their
enthusiasm. I know, it's our job to learn 'em to be safe, not necessarily gud.
Plus, I wonder at tempting fate flying out of KEMT!
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2015 - 11:08am PT
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I had to do some editing - plane ;).
I'm right at about 40 hours total. Three hours solo. 2.1 hours under the hood on instruments. I've done 8 of my 10 night TO's/Landings, have 1.5 hours night. Medical was done early on. Am going to hopefully be done studying Gleim grounds school over the weekend so that test will come up shortly.
We still do have to do the recoveries from awkward orientation (or whatever it's called). Is a power on stall at a 45 one of the recoveries? I'm pretty sure I'll have not much of a problem dialing that in - look at the instruments and focus on getting them centered, right?
I expect I'll be done in about 55 hours which is 10-15 hours under the national average. Many don't have the time/money to do it as rapidly as I do so I'm sure that's where the average comes in.
So I still have:
second x-country this weekend with Joe to Cheyenne.
Monday with luck we head to KCOS for the night flight and finish up the rest of the night stuff.
After that it'll be to metro for my three takeoffs and landings with a tower and at the same time do the steep recoveries.
Take my ground school test.
Do stage two check out.
solo x-country back to KFMM
three legged x-country solo
polish skills flight, probably more than once.
Then the $500 last flight that you just don't want to blow.
About to turn final. Boulder traffic.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Started my PPL and ground school when I was 16 (1972), had to get special dispensation as I was "underage" at the time (they have lowered it to 16 for powered aircraft nowadays). I got to the point where I soloed once (I was 17, Cessna 172), sh*t was I scared. Buchanan Field, Concord, CA.
I never did finish, it costs a lot. My mom said: "I'll pay for climbing gear and your climbing trips or flying." We were not rich.
I'll finish someday.
When I win Friday night's lottery (yeah right, like Lady Luck is going to smile on me), most of my money will go on dementia research. Jennie is in a nursing home with Korsakoff's, her mother passed away from Alzheimer's in Dublin, as my mother did in California.
I have all the climbing gear I need, a kayak, and sailing gear, but a 40'-50' sloop would be nice. And these new HondaJets look real cool. Buy one and they will teach you to fly it and get your certification. It is certified as a single pilot jet. Oh yes, in my eyes the prettiest most classical lines on a plane goes to a Beechcraft King Air.
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