Has there ever been a Gri-Gri failure?

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 1 - 31 of total 31 in this topic

Tom

Big Wall climber

San Luis Obispo CA

Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 24, 2006 - 02:08am PT

On the wall, you have a rope and a harness, single links that you have to depend on, that don't have a backup. Everything else is redundant, or should be.

But, sometimes, you have to depend on another single piece: a Gri-Gri.

Has there ever been a Gri-Gri failure?

I'm not worried about the carabiner that clips it in. I use a stainless monster locker, so I figure that is self-redundant. I know Tom broke his locker to his Gri on an Eagle's Way solo, but that was an aluminum locker, probably side-loaded (he tied back-up knots, and walked away).

But, what about the Gri device itself? Has it ever failed?

Blumsky

Trad climber

Winston-Salem

Oct 24, 2006 - 03:57am PT

yes, sort of. there is a PDF of the accident report somewhere online, but i can not find it right now.

Crimpergirl

Sport climber

St. Louis

Oct 24, 2006 - 07:54am PT

Can you recap the accident senor stich?

As far as a grigri blowing apart, I've never heard of such a thing. But as far as a grigri failing to lock up and climbers falling - it happens all the time. Seen it happen with my own two eyes. I posted a pdf a while back that talked about that. Is that they pdf someone mentioned? If so, I'll try and find it.

Blumsky

Trad climber

Winston-Salem

Oct 24, 2006 - 08:10am PT

the gri gri basically severed the rope. sort of. the accident report is very inconclusive, and very strange. no, it is not the PDF you are thinking of, i found that one last night. i wish i could find the one i am looking for.

Crimpergirl

Sport climber

St. Louis

Oct 24, 2006 - 08:13am PT

I've not seen that. Hope you can locate it.

happiegrrrl

Trad climber

New York, NY

Oct 24, 2006 - 08:21am PT

I rememebr reading about the rope/gri-gri thing online. Probably could find it with some searching through rc.com...if you can get on the stupid site, anyway.

Can't rememebr much with the details, but wasn't it something like rock grit had accumulated in the camming parts of the gri-gri, and when the rope ran through, under lock off, that was how the rope shredded?

Blumsky

Trad climber

Winston-Salem

Oct 24, 2006 - 08:23am PT

that was what they thought, but they had a lot of trouble reproducing it in a lab . . . i looked a bit on RC and google for the accident report but got tired of digging

TradIsGood

Fun-loving climber

the Gunks end of the country

Oct 24, 2006 - 08:33am PT

Would it really matter if there had been a failure?

Would a better question be "Under what conditions would a gri-gri be the weakest link in a protection system?"

Blumsky

Trad climber

Winston-Salem

Oct 24, 2006 - 08:57am PT

oh, yay, let's just rehash all the bullsh!t about how a gri gri is somehow a weaker link in the protection system than any other belay device. w00t!

TradIsGood

Fun-loving climber

the Gunks end of the country

Oct 24, 2006 - 09:11am PT

Whoa! I did not say it ever would be... :-) We do not wear two harnesses, right? jeeze.

Blumsky

Trad climber

Winston-Salem

Oct 24, 2006 - 09:14am PT

You don't wear two harnesses? that is not very safe!

stevep

Boulder climber

Salt Lake, UT

Oct 24, 2006 - 09:59am PT

Back when I was on rc.com, I was in the middle of the discussion of this accident. The general conclusion seemed to be that the most likely scenario was that sharp bits of gravel had gotten sucked into the gri-gri and shredded the rope under tension. But they had difficulty reproducing this in tests, and the way the gri-gri was set up was not recommended by Petzl.
As for an outright failure of a gri-gri when used correctly, not heard of it happening. Just don't thread them backwards. That will cause problems.

Gunkie

climber

East Coast US

Oct 24, 2006 - 10:07am PT

What do folks usually use to attach to a Gri-Gri when rope-soloing? I thought it was mentioned that Maillon Rapide steel screw closed links were mostly used. Below is a link to a page of these items. Which one?

http://www.karstsports.com/maillonrapide.html

Thanks!

morse

Trad climber

Oct 24, 2006 - 10:55am PT

I have a high-level of confidence in the Gri-Gri in situations when the load is dynamic.

Some friends of mine were using a Gri-Gri to as a releasable load device to tension a Tyrolian Traverse and put too much force on it (There was no more stretch in the rope at this point). The device didn't fail catastrophically (In other words you would have survived the fall if you were climbing), but the rope was so jammed by the cam against the interior wall of the Gri-Gri they ended up cutting it out,when they were done and the Gri-Gri showed bulging/deformation sideways.

If you had somehow developed similar forces in a fall while big-wall soloing, you probably would have had to whack the hell out of the cam with your hammer to free the rope, and you would have a lot less confidence in the device after that because of the bulging sidewall.

Bottom line: The Gri-Gri is really quite strong and there is probably much more hassle to be caused by the rope getting seriously jammed than other concerns.

For my part, I am trying to find out about the EDDY belay device made by Edelrid and if it would be suitable for big wall soloing. The downside is it's heavier and more expensive than a Gri-Gri. The plus is it has enhanced safety features and is good on 9-11 mm ropes where the Gri-Gri is only rated for 10-11 mm ropes.

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Oct 24, 2006 - 02:03pm PT

My friend took a hard fall onto the anchor self belaying with a gri-gri on El Cap. Pretty much a factor 2.

The cam sort-of over rotated on the rope. The rope was totaly pinned and we had to beat on it with a hammer to get the cam to unlock.

Afterwards the rope had a serious dead spot where it was pinched by the gri-gri.

I still use the gri-gri for soloing though!

Amelia Rudolph

Trad climber

Kensington

Oct 24, 2006 - 02:22pm PT

As yet, I have never heard of a GriGri failing. Like any other devise, operator error is the most likely way for the equipment not to work correctly. The TWO most important checks with the GriGri are: 1)That the carabiner is through BOTH plates (the GriGri locks and functions even with only one plate clipped, but the rope is NOT secured inside the devise and can fall out. 2) That the GriGri is on in the correct direction-with the "climber" picture facing the anchor. Triple check! your life is worth it.

Mr_T

Trad climber

Somewhere, CA

Oct 25, 2006 - 12:00am PT

Given the recent fatality in Yos, you might wait a few days and repost.

Yes, I've read one very sketchy report. Gym climber. Ropes in. Falls. Gri-gri doesn't catch. No specifics on rope width (ie below 10mm, perhaps a 9.2mm?, was it new/slick?). No specifics on what belayer did - rope burns on hands? I'm under the impression that a brand new rope thinner than 10mm may not generate enough friction to guarantee the gri-gri will lock. Or lock quickly enough.

JAK

climber

The Souf

Oct 25, 2006 - 12:32am PT

Still sounds like operator error in that gym accident. The Gri Gri still functions just fine as a standard tube-style belay device in the event that the cam doesn't catch. As long as there's decent tail tension, the belayer should get yanked off their feet well before the rope slips, cam or no cam.

bomber pro

Trad climber

australia

Oct 25, 2006 - 12:50am PT

If the belayer were to pull down in a moment of panic, on the wrong side of the rope ie the climbers side runing up the climb, then the gri gri does'nt lock causing burns to the hands of the belayer ,they then release the rope because of the pain ,but by then the rope can travell a hell of a long way , this hapened to me at the second clip of a sport route ,I was pulling up rope for the clip and my belayer was feeding up rope by disengaging the locking cam ,(right hand) and feeding up rope (left hand), my foot smear blew and at that moment the hand that was on the rope was the one they tried to hold onto, bad burns for my partner, and I got decked,I am a mountain guide so was ok (we get taught to bounce) and my belayer learned how not to belay, but some other things that fail the failsafes are belaying from the harness when seated on a ladge ,the cam is prevented from actuating by bieng loaded onto the ledge, the same goes for small roofs at belt hieght on a belay stance,

morse

Trad climber

Dec 4, 2006 - 12:26am PT

Just saw the MASTERS OF STONE V video. It looks like Dan Osman was using a GriGri as an important part of his system for his monster roped jumps off of Leaning Tower and out of tree platforms, etc. That's pretty reassuring to watch, if you are thinking of using a GriGri for self-belay. The only thing I ever heard was potentially sketchy about the GriGri for soloing is the sort of blade like edge that is part of the cam assembly, which is apparent when the device is weighted.

davidji

Social climber

Dec 4, 2006 - 12:42am PT

" Just don't thread them backwards. That will cause problems."

Yup. Fortunately not every time though. Several years ago I was climbing at a gym that leaves their Grigris on the topropes. I climbed. Got lowered. Then traded places with my partner. While I was preparing to belay, I gave the rope a tug to make sure the Grigri was working. Nope. Threaded backwards.

ricardo

Gym climber

San Francisco, CA

Dec 4, 2006 - 06:00am PT

tom ..

.. i have not heard of a grigri failure --

the only things i've heard about is that solo roped climbers falling and not being caught because of

a - pilor error
b - low speed falls (grigri does not engage)
c - grigri cought in open position..

all of which i think are within the parameters of what "could go wrong" ..

.. in my solo aid climbing setup, this isn't much of an issue since the grigri is not the only system that i rig to stop a fall.

Always back up your solo belay device -- then if you make a mistake -- or someone goes terribly wrong (ie: your locking carabiner cross-loads and breaks) -- you wont die.

wootles

climber

Gamma Quadrant

Dec 4, 2006 - 09:49am PT

Not really fair to the GriGri because the rope was too large. Never the less, a worn GriGri can damage a rope quite easily.

rlf

Trad climber

Josh, CA

Dec 4, 2006 - 10:11am PT

Interesting accident report. I remember reading this when it frist came out. Sounds like a rope on sharp edge type of failure. There were however, a number of mistakes made during the initial on-scene investigation. The whole system should have been left in place as is, photographed etc. Once the system has been tampered with (i.e. taken apart) it gets considerably more dificult to analyze.

One other thing I noticed was that it sounded like the anchor and belay setup were fairly close to the ground. Rigging the anchor high so the belay could be operated while standing might have helped. It would have cut down on the sharp angle of the rope going over the edge.

All in all, just speculation on my part. Really sad.

Merdynn

Trad climber

Tyler, TX

Jul 21, 2014 - 10:50am PT

I had a grigri fail on me 2 days ago at a rock gym. After topping out and descending halfway, I freefell the remaining distance and landed on my lower back. (I'm fine now, just really sore.) I asked my partner what happened the next day and found out that the lever was stuck in an "Open" position. She had rope burns on both hands because she couldn't get the grigri to arrest so she let go and tried to grab the rope going up to me.

Not sure this is typical for someone who uses their OWN grigri and keeps it maintained....my spine is killing me.

Merdynn

Trad climber

Tyler, TX

Jul 21, 2014 - 11:17am PT

I should also say "Fail" means it didn't lock up because there was no sudden load on the device...not that it was defective

couchmaster

climber

Jul 21, 2014 - 11:47am PT

Merdwynn said:

"I had a grigri fail on me 2 days ago at a rock gym. After topping out and descending halfway, I freefell the remaining distance and landed on my lower back. (I'm fine now, just really sore.) I asked my partner what happened the next day and found out that the lever was stuck in an "Open" position. She had rope burns on both hands because she couldn't get the grigri to arrest so she let go and tried to grab the rope going up to me.

Not sure this is typical for someone who uses their OWN grigri and keeps it maintained....my spine is killing me."

Sounds like operator error and not device failure. Wish you well, but I have a suspicion that if you check with witnesses, there may be a different explanation. ie, both of her hands could have been on the brake using it as a tube/ATC style device had the grigri (and not the belayer) failed.

How long had your belayer been climbing?

Good luck with your health!

Merdwynn then added:

"I should also say "Fail" means it didn't lock up because there was no sudden load on the device...not that it was defective"

Yup, partner fail. For that matter, curious how long you've been climbing?

TrundleBum

Trad climber

Las Vegas

Jul 21, 2014 - 01:29pm PT

We do not wear two harnesses, right? jeeze.

I do !

It's called a chalk bag.
It is suspended around my waist with a piece of 1" tubular tied with a water knot with descent tails. And yes I put the climbing rope and/or locker for my rap device around it as well.
Call me a wuss' ~ I love a respectable amount of redundancy if it does not clutter or weigh a ton.
Plus it gives me a last ditch bail sling.

One of the things ^ that made me realize I should get over my aversion to the term 'Trad'. That yes I am a 'Trad climber'. I back things up, double check knots, watch the weather and love gear that serves many purposes.
I am glad I know how to do a biner brake rap. and don't understand why people use 'little dipper' chalk bags in Yosemite or Indian Creek...
And especially don't understand having a chalk bag on a shoe lace / 1/4" flat webbing with a 1/4" plastic fastex buckle ?
But I am just an aging, crusty, has been... :)

Moof

Big Wall climber

Orygun

Jul 21, 2014 - 02:12pm PT

There is adequate friction that a locked open Gri-Gri should still not result in free fall. A solid grip on the brake side should still keep your arse off the deck. Sounds like a panic response to a malfunction (or operator error) resulted in droppage. I really wish that no gyms required the use of in-situ Gri-Gri's. Only well trained people should belay at all, and only experts should be put in command of a Gri-Gri.

So did the Gri-Gri get sent in for analysis? Most gyms would take such an event rather seriously. I'm looking forward to hearing what the report comes back as.