The Duality Of Man. My Personal Duality. The Struggle.

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survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 9, 2015 - 11:34am PT
I was raised in the 60's.
I come from a long line of military veterans.

My father was a WWII pilot. My uncles were sailors and Marines. My grandfather was a Marine in France in WWI. My brother and sister are Army and Air Force veterans. My brother-in-law served in Vietnam.

But as I said, I was raised in the 60's and 70's by parents who didn't try to control my every thought. I was listening to The Beatles and Led Zeppelin before I was out of grade school. I became a hippy rock climber peacenik by the time I was 15 years old. I was a full time hippy rock climber until I was 21 years old.

When a particular expedition to Peru fell through, I was thrown into a real quandary. I had no money to go to college and didn't really want to anyway, I was a man of action.

When I joined the military, I wanted to be something really good! I ended up at the elite SERE Instructor school. I honored my family, served my country, and did something bad ass all at the same time.

But the long haired rock climber was too deeply embedded, and I had no desire to lose that side of me either. Some guys join up when they're 17, and don't really have an identity. The military becomes their identity. I was a full blown professional climber who couldn't get paid much for it. Many long haired climber friends thought I'd lost my mind. With my family history it didn't really seem much of a stretch at all. The commitment to a new life was the hard part.

It all worked out just fine, and being with another group of people who were as bad ass as hard core rock climbers, just in a different way, suited me perfectly. That is not to say that there aren't differences in attitude or opinion, or that there was never conflict between my two worlds. There was.

So here I am these many years later, a Deadhead rock'n'roll rock climber peacenik who is still fiercely proud to be a veteran, the great unit that I served in, and the life long brothers I earned there. And yes, there are still conflicts between the two sides of my heart. The duality of man? Yes indeed ladies and gentlemen, yes indeed.....





[Click to View YouTube Video]









The Duality Sandwich.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 9, 2015 - 11:41am PT
Kool!
Grow ur hair long again...
jogill

climber
Colorado
Oct 9, 2015 - 11:47am PT
Congratulations on a well-balanced life, Bruce. And thank you for your military service.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 9, 2015 - 11:54am PT
I have a similar duality as regards service in the military. The lessons I learned and the friendships I established in the military were very formative in who i am now.

Service in the military doesn't necessarily make you conservative, pro war and pro gun. It had the opposite effect with me.

Thanks for posting this.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 9, 2015 - 12:05pm PT
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Oct 9, 2015 - 12:10pm PT
You forgot something Bruce.

I think I know you well enough to say that you should be talking not about the duality of your life, but the triality. (Is that even a word?)

Proud warrior. Hippie climber. But also dedicated father & husband.

Rock On.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 9, 2015 - 12:14pm PT
It sucks being a "leg." Might as well try to be special.

Mighty glad you decided to jump on the team, Bruce.

And let me remind the Colonel, there's no winning in war...only surviving.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2015 - 12:16pm PT
Thanks you guys. I think everyone understands this concept on some level. They just don't necessarily get the struggles inside my heart, as I don't know theirs.

Triality, my new favorite word!!




It sucks being a "leg."

Ain't that the truth brutha??

Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
Oct 9, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
Here's to a life well lived Bruce!
You are a good man , sir!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Oct 9, 2015 - 01:28pm PT
Thank you for your service.

I to come from a Military Family.... my grand father was the PAYMASTER on Guadalcanal... Father in Law was in New Guinea.. My Dad Air-force Lt. Colonel, his brother was a Marine Warrant Officer who flew choppers, 9 tours in Nam... and my Kid Sister just retired from the Army as a Lt. Colonel.

My Duality is sort of like yours, but in 1971 when I was eligible for the draft, my Dad and Uncle sat me down and told me to "stay out of that F%KN war... at all cost" .... they had both seen enuf of a "political war with no end in sight"

But I got very lucky, the two years I was eligible for the draft I pulled some real hi numbers in the lottery and skated by with my life. I had two friends from my HS graduating class die in that shithole in the next year....... for no reason.

Then I became a Hippy Rockclimber.

So again, thank you for standing up to defend your country. Its people like you who allow the rest of us to live in peace without the fear that grips most people in the world.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 9, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
Gneiss Post Survival! You stand out on ST as a straight-shooter that likes to have some fun!

And when the hell are we going hunting for pre-historic cave-women?

I've got some new clues!

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 9, 2015 - 02:15pm PT

I read this thread as "The Vanity Of Man. My Personal Pride. The Struggle."-thread. The struggle is hard to detect, the pride is easy. Still I find Survival to be both humble and reflected.

The values "be humble" and "be proud" are possibly a struggle... lol...

Great thread, carry on...
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 9, 2015 - 02:30pm PT
I read this thread as

I think you need a snack, you're getting grumpy.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Oct 9, 2015 - 02:54pm PT
Salute!
L

climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
Oct 9, 2015 - 03:01pm PT
This life is all about duality.
And living by a personal code of ethics that goes beyond it.

Good job, Bruce.

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Oct 9, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
Ms. L says:
This life is all about duality.

But I'm not sure you and she are talking about quite the same duality. After all, she's the one who first posted this photo to Supertopo...

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
Ghost....oh gawd.....







I read this thread as "The Vanity Of Man. My Personal Pride. The Struggle."-thread.
Marlow, that's not an unfair assessment.
I am indeed proud of both, so I'll take that hit, no worries.
I guess we wouldn't post if we didn't want a little attention once in a while?













































the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Oct 9, 2015 - 05:03pm PT
To me I don't see much dichotomy in being a peacenik and a warrior. For many people, including some of the most badass folks I've ever met, they are they most humble, violence adverse people you can meet. But when the sh#t hits the fan they have the skills and killer instinct to protect their friends and family at all costs. All martial artists I know are like this. They will smile and talk down an aggressor until a line is crossed, usually a punch is thrown, then watch out because they will kick some ass.

Conversely the guy who is always acting tough is usually doing it out of fear and don't have the skills to back it up. Once in a while you'll get a real ass who is strong or skilled and wants to fight, but it's usually just a matter of time until he picks a fight with the wrong guy and gets his ass kicked.

On the other hand I do see a dichotomy in following orders vs. being a free spirit. I have no problem being a team player and doing my part when I agree with the mission. But if I'm against the mission I have a hard time putting my personal feelings aside and doing something I don't believe in.

My uncle was a prisoner of war under the Nazi's in WWII. My dad and many other relatives were military. But when I was in High School and I told me parents I was thinking about joining up they said hell no. All it takes is some idiot president invading the wrong country and you get sent off to a war, that may be fought just to earn some campaign contributor money. They said if we are invaded and go to war, by all means join up and fight for our country.

It's kind of funny. Many military and police tend right politically but there's always a percentage on the left as well. It's kind of like rock climbers tend left politically but there's always a percentage on the right as well.
hotlum

climber
Oregon
Oct 9, 2015 - 07:55pm PT
Sounds like you're the best kind of hippie. Someone who has taken their licks and might commit to what they feel is at times BS, but know where they stand on the inside. I work in the woods cruising timber for a mill. I'm definitely a peace loving earth hippie too. I know it sound BS, but someone has to do it right? Best kind of hippies in my region are the logger/ forester hippies. A person who might lay down a few dozen acres of big timber, but jams to the Dead on the drive back into town.
MikeL

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 9, 2015 - 10:20pm PT
Those are some very handsome pictures, my friend.

Be well. You've done well.
cavemonkey

Ice climber
ak
Oct 10, 2015 - 12:38am PT
Proper self disclosure bump to a brave man
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 10, 2015 - 06:28am PT
Not to make light of any man's revelations or ruminations, but as a seller of pop culture self-help books I got to see my share of notions of how to approach life.

The warrior's Path is a popular theme for younger male readers seeking answers to life's persistent problems, and one of the gurus of that genre is a cat named Dan Millman.

Here is a guy who has this system and he's gonna plug you into it, not mould it to fit your contours. It's kind of what I don't like about the military from the get-go, though I realize they are stuck with less than ideal raw material in many cases--the Zeroes and Beetle Baileys and not the Chuck Norrises and the Rambos.

The male equivalent of a Cosmopolitan Magazine marriageability test? Close, I think.

http://www.peacefulwarrior.com/life-purpose-calculator

Do your thing and calculate how you fit in.

I don't know how seriously to take the results of this and don't care, cuz I'm way past caring. Let God sort them out, I'm tired.
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Oct 10, 2015 - 08:34am PT
Great post Bruce.

Much respect,

Erik
The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Oct 10, 2015 - 09:09am PT
Very thoughtful personal honest post Bruce.

It's good to see that you are handling your "duality" far better than I and many of my career combat orientated professional "Shipmates" are.


Be thankful for that. Trust me. For this is our daily battle and one that is so difficult to discern.... dealing with the "duality".

[Click to View YouTube Video]

If anyone here on ST can/may understand the above & below "duality" statements, it would be you, Bruce.


And this is the down and dirty reality of the "duality" many of us Combat Vets are dealing with, 24/7...

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4510217/montel-williams-andrew-tahmooressis-detention-mexico
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 10, 2015 - 01:22pm PT


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Oct 11, 2015 - 09:30am PT
Survival,
Great post and one most of us can relate to one way or another.

25 years ago I worked on the Exxon Valdez spill and had to take a survival course. By chance, most of the 15 students in that class were Exxon management types. I got to talking to them on breaks and found that most of them were card carrying Sierra Club Members. Whoda guessed?

Like you I was raised in that same time frame.
My father was a Navy medic which put him with the Marines on Guadalcanal.
My mother was a Marine.

The army got me when I was young, so it took awhile for my anti-authoritarian nature to blossom,
but even after that, I always respected the discipline, personal responsibility and merit based culture of the military.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Oct 11, 2015 - 05:43pm PT
Bump for an excellent and thoughtful thread.
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:44pm PT
So now we can rename you the Struggler? Enjoyed your recent visit to the Cruz Bruceman and look forward to more rendezvous adventures in the future. Wonderful family you have there mate.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2015 - 10:58pm PT
Thanks so much for the kind comments everybody. I knew some people would understand, because everyone seems to have a little "triality" in them.

In this case I was having one of those days where I was spinning out about the state of the world. I was worrying what kind of world my kids would end up in, torn between my George Martin Luther Gandhi Harrison, peace and clean rivers self, and my let's carpet bomb the holy f*#k out of ISIS self. In turn that got me thinking about the duality scene in Full Metal Jacket. It brought a smile to my face, and made me realize that we're all in this beautiful sh#t storm together....
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Oct 11, 2015 - 11:01pm PT
Thanks for being you, Bruce - it brings a side to us that have never seen the harder element.
Bad Climber

climber
Oct 12, 2015 - 06:07am PT
Hey, Survival, well said. Reading your post and the responses reminded me of the great book:
The Heart and the Fist: The Education of a Humanitarian, the Making of a Navy SEAL Paperback – April 10, 2012
by Eric Greitens Navy SEAL (Author)

A great book and quite the man.

BAd
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 08:29am PT
Bad climber, is he still conflicted, or did he go full gung ho?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 12, 2015 - 08:46am PT
Yeah, Survival, it sucks being pissed off at everyone - the head-in-the-sand hippies and the
nihilist military-industrial-politicos. What got me the most was being given orders by morons
for moronic reasons like "because it's there."
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Oct 12, 2015 - 09:30am PT
for moronic reasons like "because it's there."

Reilly,
I love your sense of irony and humor. Best way to keep our sanity.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 12, 2015 - 03:34pm PT
Some things are trip reports, some are much more. Thanks for sharing, enjoyed learning more about you.
couchmaster

climber
Oct 12, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
Conflicts come with the territory. I served. I was conflicted too. No big deal. I think it's common. And don't thank me for it either as I don't want to hear that sh#t cause it sounds insincere to my ears, and I'm not thanking anyone else.

My grandfather was still conflicted about living in a F**xing Belgium trench in WW1 well over 70 years after the event.

My dad didn't say a single word about his WW2 service to his wife till the day he died. Not a single word. My mom accidentally learned that he was in Germany killing Germans well after he had passed away. My wife's father was near the same. I got him talking one day, but the wife had never heard a word about any of it and that was interesting considering that the man was in the most decorated unit in WW2, in the company with the highest causality rate in the battalion. Not. A. Word did he breath of any of it to any of his family.

That's conflict right there. Struggle on brothers till it ends. Life is suffering they say.

Sometimes. But most times it's bliss. That's some serious duality right there.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 06:55pm PT
Couch, not quite sure what you're saying.
There's conflict, but its no big deal?

It's not worth talking about but you're talking about it?

It's only worth talking about if you were in a trench in Belgium, except then you can't talk about it?

I clearly thought it was worth mentioning or I wouldn't have mentioned it.

Sounds like you have a bit of a hard on about something...
couchmaster

climber
Oct 12, 2015 - 08:29pm PT
Couch, not quite sure what you're saying.
Wut? English it was. I can refine it a bit Bruce.


There's conflict, but its no big deal?
Right. There's always conflict. Always. Suck it up.


It's not worth talking about but you're talking about it?
My bad.


It's only worth talking about if you were in a trench in Belgium, except then you can't talk about it?
No, none of those guys ever talked about it, yet only one was in a trench in Belgium with the Marines. I've talked about it to my kids if they asked. Full meal deal too. My grown boy, I pitched not long ago that it would be OK if he joined up. He said something like "are you nuts"? Clearly he had been listening. Thus the duality, for me.


I clearly thought it was worth mentioning or I wouldn't have mentioned it.
Mention away, free country. I thought you wanted others voices to the discussion and that's why you put it out on a public forum. Otherwise, why not just talk to yourself. Lots of folk do that. It works for them and it can work for you too.


Sounds like you have a bit of a hard on about something...
Huh? Wut? Do you have one of them there security camera pointing in here or what? "Hard on" you say? Mumphhhh. Might have had one last week. But I ain't sayin'. Unless you got this camera evidence you say you do. But it's pretty small so don't think that's so special or nuthin. There's bigger worms in the garden in these parts so I don't think you need to be worrying over my appendage. Hope that helped you out or somethin'....you gots the questions, I gots the answers......... Or not. Maybe you should re-read what I said as I'd never bring up my tiny penis in public like that.







Wuz talking about my father and father in law here, I do not believe I could pay the price that they had to pay:
"That's conflict right there. Struggle on brothers till it ends. Life is suffering they say. "
Don't see a word in there about my small dick. Sigh.....but I can see how you might have read between the lines and seen that. Just thinking about some of this sh#t makes me feel insecure and worried for my kids.


Here ya go [Click to View YouTube Video]
It's a duality thing.



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Oct 12, 2015 - 08:43pm PT
Reilly...Don't be hatin on Mallory...rj
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 08:50pm PT
I did mention away, thanks.

Your gramps and dad never said a word so no one else should either is kind of the way your post read to me.

If one was in a trench in WWI, and one was killing Nazis in WWII, its kind of a big deal. That's why we write endless books about it and make documentaries.

You're having a duality right now!
Heh heh
couchmaster

climber
Oct 12, 2015 - 08:54pm PT


Yeah, I got a couple of books that detail my relatives "work" that I never thanked them for and they didn't want to discuss. Understandably. Not a "big deal". They survived and that was enough for them. The "duality" as you say, was there for you, me and for them as well. They had issues, but they had to show up to the dance anyway... just because. All of those guys were volunteers, not a draftee in the bunch. My dad had actually volunteered twice, having been in pre-war Army-air corp (now called the Air Force) - then tossed out the first time for some minor medical thing, they reconsidered once Hitler stepped up to the plate and accepted him in the 2nd time as it started to get nasty. Life is complex, none of us can lay a pure rift down about what is truth or not truth. Maybe Werner can try, but I don't know. But it's OK man, none of us can call life out for the other guys. It's too complex. It's a struggle. A nasty, very brutal one on occasion. A blissful amazing happy one on other occasions. I am agreeing with the sediment you expressed, not arguing against it. That's all. (thread title). But no worries.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 08:56pm PT
Amen.

couchmaster

climber
Oct 12, 2015 - 08:58pm PT

Perfect expression. "Amen" back at ya. May your life be long and fruitful.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 09:10pm PT
Same to you couch.

This summer I volunteered at my second Stand Down event, for veterans who need services and often don't know how to get them, or even what they're eligible for.

Good company, a few laughs, and some people that understand. Talk about some duality and struggle, its all there, but I love it.
couchmaster

climber
Oct 12, 2015 - 09:55pm PT

Don't know what "Stand Down" is but good on you for pitching in. I too, got sucked into (long story) volunteering with the VA hospital. 4 years. Give or take. Well over 35 years or so back or so. Not worth discussing. Dickens already layed that rift down.
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity....."




There are a few interesting memories I treasure, and one I'll share that just came to mind. There was a womens auxiliary called "The Cooties" that were always up there at the VA Hospital. They even had hats proudly identifying them as both a volunteer and a "Cootie". They'd bring yumies and help out anywhere they were needed. Get guys books, or just visit with them if they were lonely. I admit I sort of took them for granted at the time. I still chuckle at Edna, she volunteered with the Cooties, and was maybe 70-80 years old at that time, very old, it seemed, to my young ass. Old old old for sure. But she was so sweet and kind. I asked Edna one day: "Why do you guys call yourself Cooties Edna".

"Why dear", she kindly replied, "it's because we stick to our men"...and her eyes twinkled and she all but lit up in happiness as she finished pitching the ultimate punchline and waited for my response of laughter. All I had was the blank cow in the field look though.

"But Edna, what does that mean? What is a Cootie?" (BTW, I'd played the game Cootie many times as a pup, you'd think I'd have figured this out already) The game we played is pictured below"

She stopped smiling as she looked at my blank countenance and knowing I was truthful and not pulling her leg said: "Well", she quietly and sincerely said, "Cooties are lice dear, all of the men had them in the trenches and could never shake them off or get rid of them".

I started laughing at her response, and I haven't stopped laughing about it since.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
Oct 12, 2015 - 10:42pm PT
Duality?? Bullshite, that concept/feeling arises when you carry the past.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2015 - 04:26am PT
Carrying the past is how we remember the terrible mistakes we have made and try not to repeat them.

It's how we remember all the love we have been shown by our family and try to repay it.

It's how we remember all the many roads we have been down with old friends and honor them.

It's how we recognize that men havent always been kind to the land and create national parks.

It's why monuments and the Tomb Of The Unknown Soldier matters.

The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Oct 13, 2015 - 07:05am PT
Duality?? Bullshite, that concept/feeling arises when you carry the past.

For many of us, the past is the present. That is our reality.

The duality of it all comes when folks in this present keep telling us not to live, in the past.

Of which, we have no choice in.




I think Bruce (Survival) can truly understand and comprehend that. I know that he has seen it not only in his time in the shet, but lately when doing the deed with those that are stuck, "Living in the past".






Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 13, 2015 - 09:01pm PT
Survival: Thanks again for the great thread, your introspection, & the very interesting comments from other posters.

It's always interesting to see how many of our WWII Vet fathers never talked about their war experiences around their children.

In 1943 my father was in his late 20’s, deaf in one ear, had a 2 year old child, & was working in agriculture, providing food for our armies.

He was drafted late in 1943, & got to invade Okinawa in April 1945 with the Army. All I ever heard about his war-wound was from my mother, who said a close miss from a shell-burst still got him in the back. He received a small disability check every month.

I grew up in the ski-resort town of Ketchum/Sun Valley Idaho, & my parents had several close friends who were in the 10th Mountain Division. When we had family get-togethers & big drinking parties for the adults, I never heard a war story.

I never really thought about why none of these folks shared their war-stories.

Maybe, it was just too hard, or too bitter, or in the 1950’s WWII was too recent to talk about?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2015 - 08:19am PT
No problem Fritz.

Strange, my dad, and particularly my uncle, who survived torpedoes and a kamikaze, aboard the second USS Lexington, never had trouble talking to us youngsters about this stuff. They weren't mouthy about it, but they had no trouble if it came up. They were proud to have been a part of the solution to the biggest mess in history.

Plus, they had lived through some pretty harsh times in a family of desert farmers in the depression, so being in the military may have seemed like a pretty proud step UP in the world!!
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Oct 14, 2015 - 10:05am PT
Interesting hearing about what our fathers and their contemporaries were willing to share. My dad landed at Normandy and was in the army reserves after WWII, his unit was made active and he ended up in Korea. He was there for two years as a Lt Co with a battalion under his command.

He'd talk to his 4 sons about wars from a historic perspective and the sense of duty he and his generation had and the wars we'd likely have to fight. The Vietnam War created a huge divide in our household. Dinner table conversations would erupt into shouting matches. I feel to this day a sense of regret as to how I treated him during the late 60's and early 70's. People talk about the 60's as some sort of love fest but for me it was all about conflict, not to say I didn't have some fun times :^).

Near the end of his life while visiting we were enjoying a TV show on military aircraft. The program focused on different fighter planes used in various conflicts including the first use of jets in combat which was Korea. I was watching with interest and turned to ask if he had seen them in action? To may surprise dad was crying silently and when I asked him what's wrong he stared me down and said in an almost hypnotic state that they were killing his men. He became animated and angry then shouted out that he had ordered to shoot the "son of bitches" down. The scab that never healed got scratched wide open, it was friendly fire incident that he kept to himself for years.

He was a great man and this incident was just one of three times I ever saw him cry. The first when I told him my wife was pregnant, this incident and when my mom was near her death.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2015 - 10:23am PT
He'd talk to his 4 sons about wars from a historic perspective and the sense of duty he and his generation had and the wars we'd likely have to fight. The Vietnam War created a huge divide in our household. Dinner table conversations would erupt into shouting matches. I feel to this day a sense of regret as to how I treated him during the late 60's and early 70's. People talk about the 60's as some sort of love fest but for me it was all about conflict, not to say I didn't have some fun times :^).

Near the end of his life while visiting we were enjoying a TV show on military aircraft. The program focused on different fighter planes used in various conflicts including the first use of jets in combat which was Korea. I was watching with interest and turned to ask if he had seen them in action? To may surprise dad was crying silently and when I asked him what's wrong he stared me down and said in an almost hypnotic state that they were killing his men. He became animated and angry then shouted out that he had ordered to shoot the "son of bitches" down. The scab that never healed got scratched wide open, it was friendly fire incident that he kept to himself for years.

He was a great man and this incident was just one of three times I ever saw him cry. The first when I told him my wife was pregnant, this incident and when my mom was near her death.


Sh#t man, there you have it. Worth saying twice in my view. Thanks for sharing that. Wow.



The Chief, I forgot to tell you that the B&W photo you posted is bad amazing.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 14, 2015 - 10:27am PT
Maybe, it was just too hard, or too bitter, or in the 1950’s WWII was too recent to talk about?

My theory is two-fold. I think the first reason is that the WWII generation
wasn't big on talking, period. Second, and my main reason, is that they
almost universally agreed that they had fought a war worth having and that
their aches and pains, physical or psychic, were prices worth paying.

My mum recently moved into a retirement home, finally, near me. I've met a
chap there who is 95 and wrote a book about 8 years ago about his years on
tincans in both the Atlantic AND Pacific theatres. He is very open about
the good and the bad. Physically he did not suffer but psychically he did
although he is quite matter of fact about it. His book is very well written,
as one might expect from a Yale English major. I assure you that you won't
be able to put it down. If anyone would like a copy he is more than happy
to hand them out and I am more than happy to pay the freight. PM me, bra!

DestroyerMan, by John T Pigott
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2015 - 10:31am PT
Sign me up right now Reilly.
Any chance the fellow will sign it for me?





The Chief: Here's one of the best images I've ever seen about this stuff.
Share it with your vet friends.


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 14, 2015 - 10:48am PT
You got it, man. PM me with the message you want him to write.
The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Oct 14, 2015 - 10:49am PT
WOW Bruce...





Put serious TEARS in my eyes. That is my day ... day in day out. Has been for over 16 years now.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 14, 2015 - 10:56am PT
Reilly! Hee's a link to a nice review of Destroyerman: http://www.navyhistory.org/2013/08/book-review-destroyerman/

I'm PMing you my shipping info & will be glad to reinburse you for postage.

Thanks!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2015 - 11:02am PT
Reilly, I will. Thank you. I am also happy to pay for postage.



The Chief, hang in there man. You're not alone. That's why you fish and climb and meet with fellow vets. You did your job, but it's ok to keep living and loving life. F*#king drive on Ranger.



I like this one too:
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2015 - 01:57pm PT
It's ok Timid, I think you've saved a lot of trees too!

Reilly, Chief, did you get my PM's?



Check this brother out!!! Conscientious Objector who earned the Medal Of Honor!!
The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:17pm PT
Negative Bruce... did you get mine?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:29pm PT
Survival, no joy on the PM.
Turn on yer transponder so I can light you up! ;-)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2015 - 07:43am PT
Last night a good friend pointed out how many different kinds of duality struggles there are.

The example he used was sexual duality, and how many people committed suicide because of the abuse they were subjected to about their sexuality.

Of course I knew this, but it wasn't a consideration when I started this thread. It shows how narrow I can be in my own thinking at times.


Who knows who Chris Beck is?
Navy Seal, 20 years.
13 deployments, 7 combat deployments
*Bronze Star, with Combat Distinguishing Device
*Purple Heart
*Defense Meritorious Service X 2



Now Kristen Beck.




The first thing Lawrence Shaw noticed about the congressional candidate in his driveway were the medals — a Purple Heart, a Bronze Star with a “V” for valor, and a Joint Service Commendation decoration — clipped to her blazer.

“Are you retired military?” Shaw asked, taking a break from his lawn work to walk over to the broad-shouldered woman.

“Yeah, 20 years, Navy SEAL,” Kristin Beck said. She brushed back her long blond hair and showed him the silver pendant on her necklace, an eagle clutching a trident, anchor and pistol.

“Wow, I didn’t know there was a woman SEAL. That’s amazing,” said Shaw, a retired Army colonel.

“I’m the first one,” Beck said. What she didn’t say was that at the time of her service, she was Christopher Beck.

She didn’t think she needed to mention it. Two years ago, Beck publicly came out as a woman, but by her account she still “looks like a dude in a dress.” Even on a day when she was wearing jeans and a black jacket with white trim.

And anyway, she’s running for Congress — not so much as a transgender candidate as a candidate who happens to be transgender.

That’s why she didn’t bring up gender issues as she walked through Shaw’s upper-middle-class black neighborhood in Maryland, seeking votes in her long-shot primary bid against Steny H. Hoyer, the second-most-powerful Democrat in the House of Representatives. Beck, 48, almost certainly isn’t going to win. She doesn’t have much name recognition or money. She doesn’t even have the backing of the major gay and transgender advocacy groups. They have hesitations about her propensity to offend parts of the community and take issue with her attempt to oust Hoyer, a staunch ally for LGBT rights. But what Beck does have is an incredible life story, a slightly jumbled platform of about 70 issues, and a message that the district is ready for a change.

“This is good!” Lawrence Shaw’s wife, Yvette, said, leaning on a rake. “Another female in Congress — that’s what I’m talking about. Give it to the women!”

Lawrence and Yvette gamely posed for photos with Beck and promised to check out her campaign Web site. Their 15-year-old daughter, Lauryn, grabbed three “Beck for Congress” bumper stickers and pasted them onto the family cars.


zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 15, 2015 - 01:28pm PT
Messages 1 - 63 of total 63 in this topic
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