What's A Mother to do with 2700 Used Nuclear Fuel Assemblies

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zBrown

Ice climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 7, 2015 - 09:07am PT

jstan

climber
Oct 7, 2015 - 09:22am PT
What site is this? Pool storage 90 feet from the ocean?
zBrown

Ice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2015 - 09:28am PT
San Onofre Nuclear Plant. Not a pool, a new concrete bunker for storage of steel encased spent fuel.

Calculations by commission staff found the shoreline could move 29 feet inland over the next 35 years — still only one-third of the distance to the storage site.






http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/oct/06/nuclear-waste-permit-approved/


Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Oct 7, 2015 - 10:17am PT
The only reason San Onofre closed is because the private monopolies knew they had the PUC in their pocket to dump most of the costs on ratepayers.
Nothing like kleptocracy approved risk-free huge profits.
Without that insider scam, it never would have closed.

Oddly enough, the most effective ratepayer advocate, Michael Shames of UCAN, was ruined by the insider idiots. This left an opening for TURN (a bay area agency) to involve itself in Southern Cal utility issues, which they "turned" out to be wildly unqualified to do. TURN approved the closure and the bailout and got paid to be the puppets.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/sep/28/intervenor-compensation/
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Oct 7, 2015 - 11:01am PT
Mike Aguirre has been fighting the fight. He is a PITA to work with but is effective

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/may/21/utilities-commissioner-cusses-out-mike-aguirre/

couchmaster

climber
Oct 7, 2015 - 01:58pm PT


I'm sure it will be as safe as Fukishima there with all the earthquakes you have. No worries. Whatever happened to the Federal Nuclear fuel depository they were planning on siting in Nevada?
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Oct 7, 2015 - 02:21pm PT
Easy...rods go into barrel. Barrel goes into lead lined vault. Heat Exchanger goes on vault. Neighborhood wired to exchanger inverter. Free power for a few hundred years.
couchmaster

climber
Oct 7, 2015 - 04:07pm PT


I'm sure it will be fine in that corrosive sea water environment. When it fails, I'm equally certain nothing bad will occur to the ecology of the area and that no one in California will sue nor will there be any financial liability of any substance.

These are not the drones you are looking for.

couchmaster

climber
Oct 7, 2015 - 04:14pm PT


From Scientific America:
"the proposed Yucca Mountain repository could withstand whatever earthquakes Mother Nature might muster – except, perhaps, the shifting of the political ground."

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/news-blog/loose-nukes-would-earthquakes-aroun-2009-03-10/

zBrown

Ice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2015 - 04:45pm PT
The site permit approved Tuesday by the California Coastal Commission is only for 20 years, but opponents of the storage plan worry that steel casks packed with nuclear waste may linger at the site for generations to come, and might deteriorate to the point where they cannot be removed.

The permit is expected to be challenged in court.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 7, 2015 - 04:55pm PT
unclearnuclear

and Blinky has his doubts, toowhat WILL Marge do?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Oct 7, 2015 - 05:03pm PT
Corruption is endemic anymore. Sad times for America and Americans.
zBrown

Ice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2015 - 05:03pm PT
Lest anybody forget, the plant which has been forced to be shut down was designed and operated by "experts" in the nuclear energy field. These very same folks are designing and will operate the storage area.


golsen

Social climber
kennewick, wa
Oct 7, 2015 - 06:08pm PT
I have seen first hand how rods just like these are stored. The first problem is of course that there is no national repository. Thank politics for that one. While I do not condone placing them so close to the sea, your guys pent up energy about how power plants store their waste is of course misplaced.

Coal fired plants have exemptions from many environmental laws and these have resulted in many incidents where fly ash laden with heavy metals have leaked to the environment.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill

The Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) initially estimated that the spill released 1.7 million cubic yards (1.3 million m³) of sludge, which is gray in color.[1][2] After an aerial survey, the official estimate was more than tripled to 5.4 million cubic yards (4 million m³) on December 25, 2008.[1][3] The spill covered surrounding land with up to six feet (1.8 m) of sludge.[4] The EPA first estimated that the spill would take four to six weeks to clean up; however, Chandra Taylor, the staff attorney for the Southern Environmental Law Center, said the cleanup could take months and possibly years.[5] As of June 2009, six months following the spill, only 3% of the spill had been cleaned and is now estimated to cost between $675 and $975 million to clean, according to the TVA.[6]

Again, I do not condone placing the spent fuel near the ocean, but from an environmental perspective, that stuff is way safer than coal plants.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 7, 2015 - 06:28pm PT
The first problem is of course that there is no national repository. Thank politics for that one.


Under Dingy Harry's house would be a fitting place.
zBrown

Ice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2015 - 06:34pm PT
Coal fired plants have exemptions from many environmental laws and these have resulted in many incidents where fly ash laden with heavy metals have leaked to the environment.

These heavy metals I assume are quite dangerous, but as dangerous as radioactive trash?


If there were as many incidents of nuclear leakage as fly ash, wouldn't we be a bit more concerned?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 7, 2015 - 06:52pm PT
The difference is all the spent nuclear fuel ever produced would easily fit under Dingy Harry's house

Fly ash?

zBrown

Ice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
Well, at least we know now where to put the spent nuclear fuel, eh?

Nobody lives in, or near, the fly ash dump?

I assume both "by" products cause chromosome damage just like LSD.


zBrown

Ice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2015 - 07:00pm PT
Is anyone working on nuclear-fly-ash bricks?


MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Oct 7, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
I had a friend that worked the super-fund thing for years - he had a crazy story from New Jersey about a dump site and old oaks feeding off the rusting barrels.

I will just say this: sick but alive; glowing, horrific sap when they cut them down. The trees adapted - barely...
golsen

Social climber
kennewick, wa
Oct 7, 2015 - 07:08pm PT
These heavy metals I assume are quite dangerous, but as dangerous as radioactive trash?


If there were as many incidents of nuclear leakage as fly ash, wouldn't we be a bit more concerned?

Well as TGT said there are many considerations.

How is this stuff contained? What is the quantity? What is the mobility in the Environment? You hit on one, what is the toxicity?

These are just some of the questions one might look at when assessing environmental risk. Its kind of like yes you could be scared on the lastt pitch of the nose, but in reality most of us spend our time climbing much closer to the ground but we should be just as cautious.

The problem is we do a lousy job of assessing risks in our lives. If we did we probably would not drive to work because it might be the most dangerous thing we do, but we do it anyway, then we bitch and moan about nuclear waste. Now I am not for one minute saying we should not be concerned with it, but lets not let fear run emotions, lets look at it from a scientific perspective. And if you do that, you will find plenty of other things in your life that you should be upset about.

golsen

Social climber
kennewick, wa
Oct 7, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
In the 90's I worked on the Vineland NJ Superfund Site, elevated levels of highly toxic and mobile (soluble in water) Arsenic from a pesticice plant contaminated the river all the way to the Atlantic Ocean.

Worked on one site in NJ where some guys leased the land right near the Delaware River. They then picked up metal plating waste in tankers and dumped the stuff out on the ground. I think it was the Derewal Site. Excavations of the soil were the most amazing colors, purples, greens, yellows. The soil was laced with mercury, lead, chromium, etc.

Over the years I worked on over 14 different Superfund or National Priority List Sites in several different states. I also worked at a plant that destroyed chemical weapons, the M55 Rocket, what a great concept, sarin nerve agent, explosive charge and unstable rocket propellant that degraded and became more unstable over time. That project is all completed, we destroyed over 100,000 of those rockets. And that was only one of several sites across the country.

Now I work at the Hanford Site in Washington State, the largest most expensive cleanup project in the world. That stuff at San Onofre is nothing compared to what we have going on here.

What most people don't understand is that without a national repository, there are multiple sites across the country where spent fuel is stored. Google tells me there are 99 plants in 30 states operating which means that there are 99 of these sites across the country which stores spent nuclear fuel. My guess is that some of those have far more potential to harm the environment than San Onofre. But still, that risk is much lower than what has happened and will continue to happen at Coal Fired Plants.

Nuclear scares people. The same people who might live in a city with really shitty air quality which will shorten your life, (or they smoke), will bitch about nuclear. I am fine with bitching, but try to be informed about the argument.
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Oct 7, 2015 - 07:30pm PT
golson - I know it's a small world in your work - sounds like you may have crossed paths.

Do you know my friend Jason G - ex-special-forces?

Now heads up stuff in Alaska?
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Oct 7, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
couchmaster

climber
Oct 7, 2015 - 08:12pm PT


Gary said:
"What most people don't understand is that without a national repository, there are multiple sites across the country where spent fuel is stored. Google tells me there are 99 plants in 30 states operating which means that there are 99 of these sites across the country which stores spent nuclear fuel. My guess is that some of those have far more potential to harm the environment than San Onofre. But still, that risk is much lower than what has happened and will continue to happen at Coal Fired Plants."

Bingo. Coal is ripping us a new one. A point on your point is that having 99 differing storage sites, all not vetted like a national one and all "temporary", will create 99 times the problems, actually, much much much more. I know for temporary nuclear things, not so much is the reality.

Good luck California.
barry ohm

Trad climber
escondido, ca
Oct 7, 2015 - 08:20pm PT
One of the reasons the spent fuel is stored temporarily/permanetly for now on site is there is no facility to ship the fuel to and no way to ship it. Its part of a bigger problem that will have to be addressed in the next 25 years as the rest of the 100 plants in the country become obsolete.
zBrown

Ice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2015 - 12:03pm PT


If you really want to tear into it, here's a good place to start.


http://sanonofresafety.org/nuclear-waste/
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