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philo
climber
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From Salon.
THURSDAY, JUN 18, 2015 05:00 PM MDT
It’s not about mental illness: The big lie that always follows mass shootings by white males
Blaming "mental illness" is a cop-out -- and one that lets us avoid talking about race, guns, hatred and terrorism
ARTHUR CHU
I get really really tired of hearing the phrase “mental illness” thrown around as a way to avoid saying other terms like “toxic masculinity,” “white supremacy,” “misogyny” or “racism.”
We barely know anything about the suspect in the Charleston, South Carolina, atrocity. We certainly don’t have testimony from a mental health professional responsible for his care that he suffered from any specific mental illness, or that he suffered from a mental illness at all.
We do have statistics showing that the vast majority of people who commit acts of violence do not have a diagnosis of mental illness and, conversely, people who have mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators.
We know that the stigma of people who suffer from mental illness as scary, dangerous potential murderers hurts people every single day — it costs people relationships and jobs, it scares people away from seeking help who need it, it brings shame and fear down on the heads of people who already have it bad enough.
But the media insists on trotting out “mental illness” and blaring out that phrase nonstop in the wake of any mass killing. I had to grit my teeth every time I personally debated someone defaulting to the mindless mantra of “The real issue is mental illness” over the Isla Vista shootings.
“The real issue is mental illness” is a goddamn cop-out. I almost never hear it from actual mental health professionals, or advocates working in the mental health sphere, or anyone who actually has any kind of informed opinion on mental health or serious policy proposals for how to improve our treatment of the mentally ill in this country.
What I hear from people who bleat on about “The real issue is mental illness,” when pressed for specific suggestions on how to deal with said “real issue,” is terrifying nonsense designed to throw the mentally ill under the bus. Elliot Rodger’s parents should’ve been able to force risperidone down his throat. Seung-Hui Cho should’ve been forcibly institutionalized. Anyone with a mental illness diagnosis should surrender all of their constitutional rights, right now, rather than at all compromise the right to bear arms of self-declared sane people.
What’s interesting is to watch who the mentally ill people are being thrown under the bus to defend. In the wake of Sandy Hook, the NRA tells us that creating a national registry of firearms owners would be giving the government dangerously unchecked tyrannical power, but a national registry of the mentally ill would not — even though a “sane” person holding a gun is intrinsically more dangerous than a “crazy” person, no matter how crazy, without a gun.
We’ve successfully created a world so topsy-turvy that seeking medical help for depression or anxiety is apparently stronger evidence of violent tendencies than going out and purchasing a weapon whose only purpose is committing acts of violence. We’ve got a narrative going where doing the former is something we’re OK with stigmatizing but not the latter. God bless America.
What’s also interesting is the way “The real issue is mental illness” is deployed against mass murderers the way it’s deployed in general — as a way to discredit their own words. When you call someone “mentally ill” in this culture it’s a way to admonish people not to listen to them, to ignore anything they say about their own actions and motivations, to give yourself the authority to say you know them better than they know themselves.
This is cruel, ignorant bullshit when it’s used to discredit people who are the victims of crimes. It is, in fact, one major factor behind the fact that the mentally ill are far more likely to be the targets of violence than the perpetrators–every predator loves a victim who won’t be allowed to speak in their own defense.
But it’s also bullshit when used to discredit the perpetrators of crimes. Mass murderers frequently aren’t particularly shy about the motives behind what they do — the nature of the crime they commit is attention-seeking, is an attempt to get news coverage for their cause, to use one local atrocity to create fear within an entire population. (According to the dictionary, by the way, this is called “terrorism,” but we only ever seem to use that word for the actions of a certain kind — by which I mean a certain color — of mass killer.)
Elliot Rodger told us why he did what he did, at great length, in detail and with citations to the “redpill” websites from which he got his deranged ideology. It isn’t, at the end of the day, rocket science — he killed women because he resented them for not sleeping with him, and he killed men because he resented them for having the success he felt he was denied.
Yes, whatever mental illness he may have had contributed to the way his beliefs were at odds with reality. But it didn’t cause his beliefs to spring like magic from inside his brain with no connection to the outside world.
That’s as deliberately obtuse as reading the Facebook rants of a man who rambled on at great length about how much he hated religion and in particular hated Islam and deciding that the explanation for his murdering a Muslim family is that he must’ve just “gone crazy” over a parking dispute.
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philo
climber
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The discussion is about domestic terrorism here in the U.S. Of A not insurgencies on the international stage. Try to keep on topic Chuffles.
And stay within the side walls. Or is photo bombing what petulant children do when they aren't getting their way?
And an Excellent response Jim.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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LOcker...
I just got a reply from one of em...
SEE!
Damn LOcker. I truly thought were far more capable than that. That's what I get again for assuming.
The discussion is about domestic terrorism here in the U.S. Of A not insurgencies on the international stage. Try to keep on topic Chief.
OK Plicho...
Pretty amazing how Jim Donini states that
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 4, 2015 - 11:39am PT
well regulated militias won't cut the mustard in today's world.
Hmmmm! ALL these "Mass Shootings" since 2009 have been conducted by ONE individual.
And the bad ass system under the direction/command of President Obama that Jim supposedly says is superior to any "well regulated militia" that "can't cut the mustered" can't even stop ONE individual from completing his goal of desctruction.
Next try.... someone.
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philo
climber
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What do you mean "next try"? Dude you've been shootin nutting but blanks.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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philo
climber
Oct 4, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
OK, I know what you mean "next try"? Dude I've been shootin nutting but unrealistic ideological blanks. I'll give it another shot... (smoke coming out of your ears)
FIFY, Phlicho...
I will give you some extra credit though, Phlico, you're BUTTSNORKLING has been quite consistent....
And an Excellent response Jim.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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I think it got lost in the shuffle, but I'd like to know what's wrong with Chief's idea of putting a few soldiers in each school.
It would cost less to do that than to create and (not) attempt to enforce a new slate of laws that won't solve that particular problem.
That solution wouldn't solve the "epidemic of gun violence" that is an inner-city morass. But it would immediately go a LONG way toward solving the problem of school shootings. Simple, cost-effective, VERY effective in keeping shooters from getting any traction, and could be put in place tomorrow!
Why not IMMEDIATELY implement that program WHILE continuing the overarching discussion?
EDIT: The fact that it was well-publicized that all flights now have one or more undercover air-marshals aboard I'm confident did more to eliminate hijackings than all the TSA agents combined!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Mad bolted I say arm the school like the prisons
Locker ur high like a mother effer..lost in leberland
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philo
climber
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Madbolter do you have kids?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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locker
climber
STFU n00b!!!
Oct 4, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
I am beginning to wonder if maybe having ARMED GUARDS...
REally LOcker? You finally see it.. finally?
Concepts been around for four-five years now and has been implemented in several school districts nation wide. Put that glue gun down and keep it outta your nose.
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philo
climber
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Madbolter said "soldiers" not armed guards. Most school districts have police already assigned to the campus.
Will you also advocate for armed soldiers at all public places? Movie theaters, shopping malls, post offices, ice crime sores? What kind of world are you proposing?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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The same world that France, the UK, Germany, Spain etc etc etc live in....
Wake the FK up PHILCO!
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philo
climber
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Trained dogs would be cheaper and more effective as a deterrent. While we are at it we should scrap the incompetent TSA morons and implement trained canines.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Certainly appears that YOU Philco have been sharing LOckers Glue Gun.
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!
Wake the fk up, Philco.
Fully armed combat ready Legionaire's regularly patrol PARIS 24/7.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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What kind of world are you proposing?
I'm proposing that we wake up to the REAL world, a world in which genuine nutjobs are increasingly emerging and in which you are NOT, no way no how going to eliminate guns.
So, face FACTS (as you keep urging the right to do) and MAN UP (literally) with the force necessary to protect the kids.
If it becomes necessary at malls, etc., then there too. Make it clear to nutjobs that the second they poke of their cowardly heads, those heads will be shot off.
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philo
climber
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So Madbolter again I ask do you have kids?
How many of you advocated for turning schools into armed encampments actually have school age kids?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
TGT, yup. Home of Sen Bernie Sanders:
Vermont has very few gun control laws, and has among the most permissive laws in the nation regarding the purchase and open or concealed carry of firearms. The state's rural character, along with its strong hunting and outdoor sports traditions, have contributed to the state's permissive gun policies.
You GO Bernie!
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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moosedrool
climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Oct 4, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
Will you also advocate for armed soldiers at all public places? Movie theaters, shopping malls, post offices, ice crime sores? What kind of world are you proposing?
Philo, I think The Chief would be happy in N. Korea.
Actually MOOSE, POLAND will do....
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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ANd Italy...
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