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steve shea
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 3, 2015 - 08:00am PT
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NY federal judge nullified NFL discipline. No due process.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Guess his wife will stay with him
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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He makes $100 mil and gets due process while the average schmuck has no recourse to disipline at work.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Justice served !!!!!!
If the NFL has a spec on the air pressure of the balls.... its the Officals JOB to check for legal balls....
Did I just write "legal balls"?????
The commissioner needs to work on getting Los Angles a NEW football team..... and not paving the way for the crummy rams to return to their ancestral home..... or the crummy looser raiders.... or the cheap, hostage holding owner of the chargers....
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Though I consider the Pats cheaters and always will and am convinced that the air pressure was doctored and that Brady knew what was going on i believe the Goodell in his standard way screwed this one up and thus deserves to look the fool.
As far as a new LA team give the Raidahs a chance. They probably have the offensive rookie of the year and have a good QB to throw him the ball. And it would appear the current Davis regime will let management take care of personnel decisions. They might be an 8-8 team this year.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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We have enough gangs in LA, we don't need the Raiders, too.
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10b4me
Social climber
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We have enough gangs in LA, we don't need the Raiders, too.
+1
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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We have enough gangs in LA, we don't need the Raiders, too.
+2 .......
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Raiders went back to LA? Ah- I see it's just Nature's suggestion. Either way, would be good to see them have some success again. As far as Brady goes, a big whatever seems appropriate. The commish's 4 game suspension was over the top but, yes, someone should have carried around a pressure gauge (I suppose). Colts only lost by 30 or so... outcome could have been different.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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The LA situation is another example of the bullshit from the league. They allow teams to hold the public hostage for tax dollars to build stadiums for private companies that make billions.
The current fans don't want to see any of their teams leave.
The league is not great because of the current owners and league office. It's because of men like Walter Camp, Pop Warner, and Johnny Unitas who developed American Football into the great spectator sport it is.
What the league has done for its success is to effectivly be a monopoly by forcing other leagues out of business or merging with them.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Eff the NFL, all inane commentary with occasional action. Mostly just a drinking game masquerading as a sport.
Eff baseball, see above..
Eff soccer floppers, ruins an otherwise admirable game. Womens soccer is actually better of watch IMO.
Eff fandom. Be proud of your own achievements, not those of a group of surrogates.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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For myself, I'm glad to see the NFL in shambles, even tho they have had great athletes/ personalities throughout the years -- there's far too much BS now that outweighs even historical consideration. The spousal abuse, deflate gate -- Jerry Rice using stickum, to name a few.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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The league is not great because of the current owners and league office. It's because of men like Walter Camp, Pop Warner, and Johnny Unitas who developed American Football into the great spectator sport it is.
Exactly true. The current powers in the NFL stepped in it big time. Now it's a certain bunch in the league offices and their consultants and lawyers whose rear ends are currently on the chopping block.This is what they get for responding disproportionately to what really amounts to politically-motivated pressure and criticisms from relatively small groups--- rather than to the general fan base who pay the rent. They thought they had a whipping boy in Brady because he fits a certain stereotype in the minds of the politically correct.
If the league doesn't unload some of the key actors in this debacle then this kind of stuff will continue.
Brady was not going to play along. He gave the dummies more than one opportunity to reverse course and yet still they continued.
Brady played it like a competitor and beat their asses.
As far as the NFL being somehow massively damaged by all of this-- show me their bottom $ line at the end of this coming season.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Yeah, they're laughing all the way to the bank.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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The poll of nfl fans I saw said:
54% think Brady cheated
63% support 4 game suspension
85% think other teams cheat too
One takeaway for me, looking at those poll results, is that of my group of human nfl fans who have made football the most popular sport in the U.S., 1 in 10 support Brady's 4 game suspension while believing that he didn't cheat.
In the contest of brain power between the fans and the nfl, it doesn't seem to me like we fans are winning :-)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Brain power....football fans. Gotta stop using.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I grew up not really watching sports. My grandpa was a die hard sports fan who spent hours in "his" chair watching baseball, etc. I didn't get it.
As I got older I learned to appreciate spectator sports. It's not mutually exclusive with doing your own things. And plenty of people like my grandpa are too old or have too much free time to spend it all doing their own sports/activities. They like the excitement and camaraderie of following spectator sports.
I went to one NHL game with my dad when I won tickets at the boy scouts. I vividly remember that night and had a great time. That was the only pro sports event we went to. Now I take my boys to a fair amount of games. Often just our local minor league teams, but it's super fun and affordable.
The more I've learned about football the more I appreciate it. How it developed from early rugby football. How it's a uniquely north American game. The strategies, some spanning years, to put together a competitive team. The matchups and strategies that are adjusted during games. And sometimes the instant decisions and athletic performances that can change the outcome of the season like the interception ending the last super bowl.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Yea I agree. Our relationship with the whole human psycho drama of sports and competition and our black and white judgments about good and bad for both players and fans .. it's pretty entertaining stuff. I used to be a big cycling fan and then the continuing ongoing never ending legacy of doping and cheating and all the other human stuff that goes on in and out of sports ... I think that you can accept it you, you can reject it, or you can float somewhere in between. But that last one, our brains just aren't very comfortable doing that.
So now, with my role as the dad of my daughter affecting my perspective, I find that Serena Williams is my favorite professional athlete ever! Twenty years ago I never would have expected that :-) But I think when it comes down to it our fandom or nonfandom are just subject to the same human dispositions and beliefs and behaviors that the players display.
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overwatch
climber
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Professional sports makes me sick and so do the weirdos that worship them
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Love it Cragman!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
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For sure...Some of the roughest play at a Raiders game is in the stands...
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Who's Tom Brady?
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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The poll of nfl fans I saw said:
54% think Brady cheated
63% support 4 game suspension So 9% of poll responders think he didn't cheat but still should be suspended?
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Right Sula - I said 1 in 10, but 9% is the more precise way to say it :-)
I think my favorite sport to watch is my daughter playing football (soccer to you Palin admirers who speak American :-), but to each his own!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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The judge ruled narrowly on process violations of the collective bargain agreement and did not weigh Brady's guilt or innocence relative to the charges.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^^^Yeah, he walked, just like OJ.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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He deflated the balls by slashing their throats?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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it you want more precise... 1 in 11 is more like 9%
as for the vacating of the arbitration finding against Brady, it is an interesting lesson in labor law... the judge found that the arbitrator (Goodell) did not conduct the arbitration fairly (which is what they are supposed to do) for both sides, the NFL and the player(s). The whole issue of the NFLPA is that the commissioner, hired by the owners, cannot be a neutral arbitrator. The owners seem to be slowly waking up to the notion... but it is uncertain how many more losses of high profile federal court cases it will take for them to act.
this is more interesting a story concerning labor law than the Ideal Gas Law...
as I pointed out previously, the Ideal Gas Law makes the NFL's rule on inflation unenforceable, at least in practice. The Ideal Gas Law has been around since 1834...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law
basically, it relates a gas' pressure, volume and temperature, the ratio of the product of pressure and volume to the temperature of the gas is constant:
PV/T = constant
so if you fix P and V in the NFL rule, keep it "constant" then you have to fix the temperature too... which is not done in most stadiums.
what advantage is gained isn't at all clear... and especially in the particular game that is being contested.
My only personal experience with this sort of "cheating" comes from a yacht race from Marblehead to St. George... a very long race, 776 miles. After almost a week of racing we are greeted with the scent of land as we approach Bermuda, it is early morning and the island's cloud cover is visible even as the island is beyond the horizon. We have beaten the arrival of the Bermuda High, which has visited itself on much of our fleet, leaving them bobbing in its doldrums behind us. But two of our class competitors are visible ahead of us.
We have the course rules out and notice that the competitors have "cut a corner," we are required to take a particular buoy on the starboard (probably less than a mile difference), they have that buoy very much to their port. Our capitan, the owner, instructs the helmsman to follow, but the crew (that's us) raise an objection to "breaking the rules." *
Capitan is a solid American businessman, competitive to the bone, and is caught in a real dilemma, the competition is in sight and perhaps beatable, but not if we take the longer route to the finish line. Tense moments pass, Capitan clearly wants the win. Suddenly he disappears through the cabin way to below decks.
We hear him talking to the race committee on the radio, he is reporting the rules violation of our competitors! We do the "right thing" and they get penalized (time added to their passage) which is enough to have us place 3rd in our division.
So the righteous -
while the judge could not rule on the Pash/Wells Report conclusions, he did ask the league how the alleged rule violation effected the game, pointing out that Brady and the Patriots performed better in the second half with league inflated balls, then in the first half with the alleged under inflated balls. There was no answer from the league, they were under no requirement to defend the report's conclusion, but the question from the judge indicates his skepticism of all the agony over "competitive advantage."
But it is predictable, if not admirable, that the Colts' owners would cry foul and allege a rule violation in order to gain an advantage penalizing their competition where they failed to do so on the field of play.
Perhaps this is the American way -
And it is hard to fathom that this same team goes on to victory in the Superbowl, the best rated offense against the best rated defense, if they are so dependent on "cheating". How to explain the remarkable 4th quarter performance of the accused offense? Conspiracy theorists are invited to provide their take on the event.
Finally, as seems to be so often the case, it is the performance of the many "secondary" players who seem to be critical in such victories, and make the outcomes so random (I fully expected the Pats to loose in some variation of those painful ways they seemed to in the recent past).
* I don't know why this particular rule, except the coral reefs around Bermuda seem to have a lot of spectacular "spikes," all the better to breach a boats hull, which is how the British flotilla that arrived to colonize the islands in 1607 escaped catastrophe in the storm that arrived coincidently, the reef speared fleet anchoring the ships and allowing them to offload their crew and passengers in small boats.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Thanks Ed! Interesting post. We think that we operate on these strict rules of logic and ethics but when push comes to shove we do whatever works best for us, whether that's cheating, or dissaproving of cheaters, or being a (girly :-) tattletale, or disapproving of (girly :-) tattletales, or whatever suits our agenda at the moment.
Oh yea I see how 1 out of 11 is closer to 9% than 1 out of 10. I guess I was trying to make it easier for humans to understand the number by rounding to a multiple of 10, but instead I just made it less understandable. :-) Humans we make these little errors of judgment or understanding in service to a bigger picture value or belief.
Is "1 out of 11" a more precise way of representing 9% than "1 out of 10", or is it just more accurate? Could we improve our precision even more by calling it "1 out of 33.6"? Big value to be had in our scientific/rational ways of thinking.
But as with most things in our world of ambiguities I guess it probably comes down to which way the judge (I, for each of us) rules. :-)
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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The judge ruled on the arbitration process but made a lot of comments that gave insight into what he thought about the whole situation. For example: what direct evidence is there? None. The "independent" investigation wasn't. And Brady played better once the balls were inflated to 13 psi for the second half.
Last I looked Atlanta was in America and what you call football is the most popular form of football in that region. In Ireland football is Gaelic rules football in Australia its Aussie rules football. If I were to go to England and demand they call it association football and football is American football I'd rightly be laughed at.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Apr 25, 2016 - 09:18am PT
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how will this affect Bernie's campaign?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Apr 25, 2016 - 09:21am PT
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Eff soccer floppers, ruins an otherwise admirable game. Womens soccer is actually better of watch IMO.
This
EDIT: And I would like to speak with the referee in the Pats game. He handles that ball more than any other person on the field, including the ball boy. If he is not too stupid to recognize something amiss given the sheer volume of times he handles that ball, then we should check to see if he has a new RV parked in his driveway.
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| Messages 1 - 34 of total 34 in this topic |
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Brady wanted the ballboy to deflate the balls only some of the time? Only home games. Only when the ballboy wasn't accompanied by an official which they said was most of the time. What's more important consistency or sometimes letting <~0.5 psi out?
Let us know!